Imagine Barton Lynch head of WSL And Peter King And Kelly Slaterv Head Judges (Kelly also killed it a Tressles finals commentary G.O.A.T.!) It will be a complete different sport. So Stoked this Podcast exist. Bless you guys! Much love and good vibes from N.Beaches Oz 🙌🏼❤️🤙🏼💪🏽
now you talking ...im thinking LIV surfing or Rebel Tour , Slab tour need to inject insane waves , no mid year but EOY cut . Perry hatchet to come back and over hall the judging
@@DarknessYT2010Thank you Sir! Most surfers on Tour live on fear, very unfortunately, they can't have a voice, right or wrong opinion, no freedom of speech. Sad to see how the WSL became a monarchy/tyranny pretty much. The I.S.A. got it, Fernando (the President and founder) makes everything about the surfers and fans.
Loved your comments about the judgement issues and its lack of accountability lately. Agreed 100%. Independently of nationality of the surfer, competitive surfing judgement needs to be more open for score reviews and accountability to acknowledge mistakes when they happen. Judgement has been mostly good throughout last years but when its not , it seems that nothing can be done to correct it. It’s almost like politics, we see sth is not right and still, nothing changes. Love your raw honesty about it. Keep going with this podcast…We need it.
100% correct analysis. 3 to the beach is now rewarded as the highest form of surfing which is the opposite of encouraging progression, it's a regression back to the 80s. We all want to see a combination of carves, ariels and creativity. Penalising airs to the point that three-to-the-beach scores higher every time is not the way forward. The next logical step in progressing the sport would be to reserve the highest scores for a combination of carves and airs on the one wave or throughout the heat as a whole.
I am glad you are saying that. My deepest and utmost respect for you for addressing that. You are constantly proving that you are truly a surfing lover from the heart. We need more people like you to pointing out those barbaric acts. We are dealing with people that has families, a career to manage, and a mental strength to take a good care or they are gonna suffer forever with these bad decisions. Thanks for such a courageous speech.
I remember sitting next to a very senior lawyer with facebook on a singapore to bali flight, a lifetime skier and relatively recent convert to surfing..but totally addicted, having a quick break chasing waves in Indo, he put it that the difference and challenge between the sports is that the mountain is moving in surfing....
Great show. Thank you for scratching the surface about The St. Clemente storm, judging and who should be judge, the Medina issue, the super Mario encarnation. Every one of those topics deserve a show and plenty of discussion. Finding that bill when you are not even looking for it is more unlikely than winning the lotto.
It's like politics in Surfing competition, Can't voice your true opinions because ?? Someone's feelings! Barton Lynch is right on the Money and has always been very respectful towards me and I truly appreciate that. I'm Mark from Leucadia Leucadia
I'm stoked for the SC crew. Stoked for the Florence Brothers. Gabriel has been ripping this year his not getting scored what he deserves. Just my opinion watching. JJF underscored also. I'll throw Kelly in there also.
That was Soooo good thanks mate, there are few broadcasts on this platform that leave me feeling genuinely chuffed with 20 minutes in front of a screen, its a real pleasure to see your stoke as always. $50 buck story was double AA. Alignment and place on the massive mountain of life as we spin through this centrifugal universe, find your centre and run with it. Its great to look up to our elders and hear some truth even if its about the simple art of riding waves.
Hi BL, after listening to your story about stopping right on the $50 dollar spot ,I have to tell you about my needle in a hay stack story .....I call it the power of " POSITIVE thinking ". I was living at Point Dume & on Strong Santa Anna days I would head to Zuma beach & beach comb for coins left uncovered by the wind . ( fun fact my fascination for hunting coins on the beach was a result of the 1971 & 74 ..(I think) Hughe storm event on the Northern beaches . A Norfolk pine were washed down at South Avalon & coins dating back to 1918 etc were unearthed by the waves , lots of treasure...) Any how , Im out walking Zuma ,a very long beach , billions of tons of sand right !!! I walk a mile or so not finding any thing much except pennies .... some what bored I started chanting ,saying to my self I want to find a Diamond ring ........ with in 2 minutes I look down & BAMMMMM !!! A sterling silver 3 carat diamond ring laid ,beautifully presented by the Santa Anna wind . And Barton , it's now my wife's wedding ring ! The Power of Positive thinking !! P.S. we know each other though TC. I'm Lisa's brother .
Hey Richard sorry for the delay mate, and yes remember you but havent seen Lisa in quite a while. That is a fantastic story and ive always been a bit of a treasure hunter myself mate. So very cool you manifested such goodness for yourself and your wife is now wearing it is a powerful and beautiful thing. Thanks for tuning in Rich.
@@barton_lynch How about a podcast with a few of the CT or ex-CT (has to be one Brazilian) guys explaining how they think it should be judged? Now that would be interesting, and I think you are well plaed to host and discuss.......
Great show guys. It sometimes does seem the WSL has a playbook “new heroes” that is forced through judging; except these guys and gals don’t need the positive discrimination, let it play and magic will happen anyway, it’s surfing ❤
thank you barton for such an honest and respectful conversation! i think because gabe might be one of the greatest surfers of all time and been on tour for over a decade now he's constantly judge based on his past performances rather than his competitors which is wrong and unfair to him... also the guy is a freak and makes everything look easy
How many times did Parko get underscored bc he made things look so easy? Rewarding Skipping past an entire wave to do a sloppy air rev on the end section takes away from flow, connecting turns, and catching set waves. Subjectivity sparks debate, however the real villain is the non transparency of what to expect as a fan.
@barton_lynch to my mind the perfect wave would be a combo of barrel, buckets of spray gouges and a filthy big air. All connected and made to look easy, the unicorn lol
As soon as that heated finished, I thought to myself, BL and PK will have something to say about this. So many other odd score judgements made at that contest too. ASP rock
The judgment needs to be clearer and this affects everyone regardless of nationality. These uncertainties bring doubt to the institution and consequently a "fight" between us and them that expands on social media. I think that in addition to ending the Final 5 and the Mid-Year Cut, the judgment has to change urgently for the good of professional surfing. Barton is always accurate and honest. 🤙 from 🇧🇷!
Barton...couldn't wait to hear your always measured pro read. You did, as expected, dial it straight to the point. I do have to ask, regarding calling that air score bad for surfing, remember when Joey Buran was pulling standard 360s over and over, getting huge scores for them, when it was new, but do you think those 360s he was pulling should still be getting the same scores he got now? It seems like if the idea is to reward progression, then progression needs to keep moving forward. Love your show always...both of you. Thanks.
that is exactly right, medina and italo and toledo are doing these airs for A DECADE now, they are boring and they are like FART AIRS, specially when they do 28 poo-pumps and sacrifice the entire wave to do some ACROBATIC CRAP AIR
What about snaps, lay backs and so on? Should they be getting lower scores too? People have doing them forever! How many snaps and carves... u saw on that comp? Now how many full rotations did I see?
@maurodalbosco9831 Fair point and it did occur to me as well, but still, what do we do with things like the standard 360 of the 80s that did garner massive scores then? What do we do with air revos of the 90s? The airs are great to see, especially in the sadly small mess Bells gave at the end of the comp, so, that isn't the point nor question. The question, in a more general sense I suppose, relates to how does judging move as time moves?
@@scottthomasen8978 Good point. I think the first thing that we (everyone: surfers, WSL, judges, audience, journalists, commentators etc) NEED to understand is that the judging criteria is A CHOICE. Whoever rules the sport -- in this case the WSL -- *chooses* to say that this and that maneuver deserve high scores and this and that maneuver deserve so-so scores etc. This is a very simple and obvious FACT but it seems that a large part (maybe the major part) of the audience, the commentators and the surfers DOESN'T NOTICE that. So much so that people (from Gabriel Medina to anonymous surf commentators like us) talk about "natural progression of the sport" all the time; But there is no such thing when it comes to judging criteria. It is a CHOICE. For the past 10 or so years WSL has chosen to score airs and not score a lot of other things including barrels and including "the dance" (anyone who watches this channel must be familiar with "the dance" that Barton talked about previously). What has this CHOICE caused in the past few years? Well, some of the surfers (mostly Medina and Ítalo did this but others -- specially Brazilians -- followed suit) decided that they did not need to 1) choose the best waves of their heat, and 2) they didn't need to surf those waves. Because all it took to make a hear was to catch two mediocre close-outs, do 8 or 10 "poo-pumps" on them to get some speed and do a fart-air. Boom! There you have it! A 7 and an 8! And you beat that other dude who was trying to catch the best waves of the heat and that was trying to surf them (!). One more example of THE CHOICE: in 2023, at glorious, maxing, brutal 15-plus Sunset Beach, WSL CHOSE to ignore the outside section and gave scores to waves that were caught on the inside. That CHOICE sent a clear message and NO ONE was even trying to drop the waves on the outside Sunset, no one is trying to manage the speed of doing that, no one is even trying to do those unbelievably hard (and extremely amusing to watch!) bottom turns on those massive waves. Waves are breaking alone on the outside and they run for 15, 20, 25 SECONDS (!!!) without anyone on them! Then, on the inside, one of the best surfers n the world drops this wave, does a nice maneuver in one vertical section and when he goes to do the second turn the wave is already flat in the channel; What is that? That is A CHOICE. What happens? A LOT! Have you ever seen any of the current best surfers in the world surf a Sunset wave like Gary Elkerton did in the 80s? Are they even capable of riding maxing outside Sunset? Have they ever even tried to do that? I don't know! If WSL had CHOSEN that that -- droping and riding 15-plus wavs at maxing Sunset -- was an important part of the sport, we would have all the surfers TRYING to surf and likely evolving a lot on those conditions, including kids and surfers that are willing to join the tour. What we have today is basically everyone trying to do airs because WSL has CHOSEN for 10 years that airs are the good thing that deserves to be scored. And that has changed again because WSL CHOSE about two or three years ago to stop scoring "fart-airs". They didn't inform anyone about this CHOICE, which is one of the main causes of all the commotion we are seeing for the past two years specially from Brazil, where the majority of the people who watch surf are convinced that WSL is out ta get the Brazilians.
@ludurigan Thanks man. Makes me think that it would be really cool for all of us to see those pre comp sheets that they say are handed out to the surfers explaining what the judges will be looking for. Love this site and chat area. Nice to have respectful, thoughtful, even keeled conversations. All starts from how great Barton does it... Cheers.
I think the problem the judges had with the air was the lack of a clean landing. Medina had to work to get back up (with most of the effort being provided by the power of the white wash).
I dont know, I can see that but only if you are looking for reasons to discount rather than reason to credit, full rotation and not down long. Thank you though.
I’m sorry to say, that Occy is sorta responsible for why the WSL can’t judge correctly. The “back hand reentry”, because of how it’s linked to Occy, is, undeservingly, the most important maneuver on tour for points. Remember when Curren stomped Occy in the Heritage heat and Occy only lands one back hand reentry the entire time and magically it’s the best thing ever that’s ever happened?
@@andrewwood4013 and Curren surfed the Heritage Heat better than the pros in the actual event. It’s the same with Caroline Marks, because they’ve deemed her the female Occy, all she has to do is,“back hand reentries”, and it’s an automatic title win. It’s like Cole’s victory over Griffin. Great, great surfing, and a back hand reentry done over and over, isn’t not impressive, it is, but I’m not sure how it beats a giant 360 air of consequence done perfectly like Griff did. And!!, I’m not even a huge fan of air surfing in general, but it merits something with regard to difficulty, variety, and high risk as a finish, or anywhere, in a combo of maneuvers done on a wave for that matter. Surfing should be gaged more like a line for variety, like skating. Even if you had the best back hand reentry in the world, doing it over and over and over and over on every single wave, would be considered cool for the sake of consistency, but not the be all to winning a contest. It’s like frontside surfing get dumped on because back hand reentries remind the judges of some fetish they have for Occy whose back hand reentry was more a facet of his size and stature as a person than it was about anything else. His low frame gave him a unique power back hand. Great. But it’s not the only thing in surfing, and Occy’s back hand reentry shouldn’t be surfing’s entire benchmark for all eternity. It wasn’t even as good as anything Curren did style wise, ever, in my opinion.
@@mikeuptegrove Thank you for contributing to the conversation and as a massive Occ fan I had never looked at it like that but see where you are coming from. Sounds like you know more thank you think. Thanks again.
Good recall on the heritage heat, that was a confusing result but not if you think like a judge thinks and i have to find myself doing that and ignoring my own opinions to get a score right.
@@barton_lynch thanks Barton. Love the show and your perspective mate; a breath of fresh air, and from someone with clout. 👏👏 So I definitely admire your willingness to step out on the ledge for the betterment of the sport in general; say what needs to be said. I know a lot about my opinions. 😂😂 Yeah, NOT NOT (double negative) an Occy fan, but, more of a Curren fan personally, especially if style is a metric and benchmark for surfing. Occy’s back hand reentry is great but it’s definitely a facet of his personal frame and size. But, I’ve noticed that all the WSL does is pay homage to Occy and use his backside reentry as the highest standard for all scoring. There hasn’t been a heat that a backside reentry isn’t over scored and then noted as being Occy’esc. They literally remind us every time why the backhand reentry is the best: because of Occy. Got it. Every “Carolupo”, backside reentry is noted as the greatest thing ever done in surfing. Great. Love Occy. Fan yes. Absolutely. I’m just tired of seeing the backhand reentry being staged as the best thing ever, forever and ever, because of Occy’s legacy and contribution to surfing. It’s almost as if he’s the only surfer who ever laid bricks the way we hear about the comparison over and over at every single event. Yes, give credit where credit is do, of course, but I guess at a certain point, the question, IS: should a backhand reentry be the bedrock for the highest standard of surfing indefinitely because Occy had a unique and powerful approach to it because of his body type? I sorta feel that’s precisely where surfing is being held hostage. By that measure everyone on tour just needs to copy Occy’s backhand reentry, that’s the ONLY winner apparently. For example, how awesome was Kelly’s 360 carve he did at a previous event??! A 4 point maneuver?? That was about the sickest thing we’ve seen in forever that added some spice and variety and it’s not easy, that’s why no one does them, but it gets a 4.3 or something absurd?! Okay, pick any surfer on tour and tell them to pull a 360 carve in any run in any heat. I’d love to see it. If it’s so easy then it’s an easy way to add variety, yet it’s virtually never done. Gets 4 points when it is. Seen 8 billion backhand reentries throw water on tour, can’t recall who did a 360 carve before the last one Kelly did for 4 points. Anyone know?
Good on Gabriel stand up for the sport other surfers wont. They judge Gabriel against Gabriel or ive seen him do it better thats not what its about . In my opinion one of the best surfers to ever get on a board
I don’t have a bone in this fight but how does contest judging guidance come into play for the event? My understanding is the that the judging emphasis for Bells is focused on speed, power, and flow versus airs or any other individual maneuvers. Using an air as a finishing maneuver is very different than using a wave for a single air. Seems like this is an area that needs more transparency and clarity. Definitely understand where Gabe is coming from regarding the air but he also should have shut down Cole’s last wave.
100% shouldve shut down Coles last wave, that was his mistake for sure but those waves were small and not traditional Bells or Winki and desperate times for the event and that air to me was the most exciting, technical and futuristic thing of the whole heat and when its ignored people stop doing therm and progression stalls
@@barton_lynch ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh man. he definitely cares! didn't you see he posted on the lisa andersen thing? he cares! and he is SAD, SAD, SAD with pro surfing. not sure if you have a good relation with him (good enough to invite him for a talk on the stoke bloke show tec) but WOW, I would (and i am sure a lot of blokes would) LOVE to hear YOU TWO GUYS talking about pro surfing! I could do that for 10 hours! 18 hours!
Even without Gabe pulling an air I think his surfing was so much more fluid then Cole’s but having said that the complaining by the Brazilians is enough to bring pro surfing to an end.
Not a fan of Brazilians complaining or claiming. However, Gabe surfed a really good heat with creativity, variation and flair. Handstands was pedestrian and repetitive... then he gets gifted a 9.x against Ethan... Nothing rigged here folks, nothing to see... move along... We'll have a US champ soon enough, by hook or by crook...
@@mark130471 I don’t know that it’s rigged because Cole surfed well. I just think that everyone raves about Ethan’s flow but doesn’t seem to credit the flow that Medina has, especially backhand. It’s not just lip hooks, he has great variety.
@@Rockbottomsurf I'm going for rigged. Gabe had that heat IMHO and I'm pretty much as anti Brazilian as you can get... I'm just putting this out there... the WSL has rigged the comp to ensure a US champion, for profit (taking nothing away from the smarts and surfing being shown by Griff).
Yeah I found it hard to differentiate the scores, I really love Gab's surfing and Cole i had never really seen but the air I loved. Something fresh and different that you cant imagine doing.
@@barton_lynch Met u back in da 80's in Mauritius,u surfed big Pass at La Morne,training for Reunion contest.Those days u had to lick a stamp and attach to postcard and pop it into the snail mail box to send news home.Met u at da post box.Gr8 ol' days,how time flies.Keep up the good controversy,rock da wsl's sinking boat!
@@barton_lynch Hey BL,was on a surf trip at Tamarin bay from South Africa,was good then,but,the French Mauritians have become wankers like the wsl wankers! Madagascar a better option! Take it slow Dad!
They always send that out, its always the same things worded differently, and never really has much impact, good surfing is good surfing, great surfing is great surfing, the criteria dont say much diff to what has for decades but if it was easy everyone would be doing it but it aint under pressure in a heat and thanks for sharing
Can we talk about how all 5 judges are scoring VERY closely EVERY time. It's just impossible to explain other than they are TOLD the tight range they ALLOWED to score. The only way to explain the situation is that the head judge is effectly scoring every wave by himself. The five hired stooges are just a front.
It can definitely look like that from the outside, and in. The judge who doesnt fall into line with the school of thought is the high or low all the time and his or her score removed anyway so yes there is a inherent pressure in the system to conform.
@@barton_lynch Yes thats a part and I know from scoring boardriders club comps there has to be direction or outlyer judges become a continual dead score. What I fail to see is that in a subjective system that the scores are grouped within a point virtually every time. It just does not add up.
@@xwhite2020 No it doesnt add up, flawed from the very start with the need for 5 people to agree to look right and then comes the pressure to fall in line, shit system if you ask me.
Barton you are wrong on that, those backside air reverses are pretty easy "one you get them dialled"compared to linking 5 critical turns. Hard for your generation but 30 years ago Ratboy, Chris Ward &Tim Curran had them dialled, yes 30 years ago.
@@barton_lynch what i mean barton is that those airs were cool and different a decade and a half ago (in 2009). now they are predictable and boring. i don't care if just a handful of surfers (Medina Toledo and Italo and a few others) are able to do these airs. Christian Fletcher did poor versions of them in 1989 and they were just as boring. The fact that curren and occy and carroll can't do them show how disposable they are to surfing. One thing is evolving. Other thing is to go on the wrong direction.
6:37 agree, which is why he was the winner 6:46 disagree. no flair. surfing further away from the lip & curl and just hacking the waves off the tail of the board
These feelings only come out when it's happening to the chosen few but when it's happening to the non cookie cutter guys like Zeke Lau he becomes a villan (ie. Sunset twice, Bells w/JJ and Felipe etc.) Gabriel knows what the WSL is doing. They have their guys they want to push through and the guys they want to cancel. It's not a big secret, it's a fact. The WSL has a certain image they want to promote. When you have any system that is determined by peoples opinions, it sucks! Bobby Martinez said it awhile ago.
Well said mate, its amazing that it can not be a big secret, hopefully the agenda can be on the sideline and not front and centre and let the surfing do the talking.
WSL are too arrogant to learn. Judging will always be controversial because its subjective and some people will whinge no matter what. If they had a full breakdown of judging, film the whole thing, show us the process and most will understand or accept decisions a lot better
The subjective nature of scoring in surfing will always offer some amount of controversy. That's just sports. That's just life. What some of those involved need to learn is there's a right way and a wrong way to deal with it when it happens. All involved seem hell bent on doing things the wrong way. I love all of the Brazilian surfers. Medina, Filipe, Italo, Joao, Yago and all the rest...they're all amazing surfers and seem like truly likeable fellas but the constant whining from their fans, (often riddled with absurd accusations of "racism" etc), is definitely enough to turn the casual fan's stomach. The way in which they chime in themselves sometimes doesn't help matters either. Like I said, there's a right way and a wrong way. And this is a lesson that the WSL also needs to learn before it's too late. I think all the Brazilian surfers, their respective "fan club" presidents, all of the WSL suits, and all of the WSL judges need to go into a dark room behind a closed doors for a private session to watch the June 02, 2010 MLB game between the Detroit Tigers and Cleveland Indians. They should not skip ahead. They need to sit there for the whole 3 hours and watch from beginning to end and then they need to watch all of the press conference footage afterward as well. They need to understand what was at stake and the contrition and grace offered by all involved. They all need to understand that with each response to controversy they are either gaining fans or losing them. All too often they're making the decision to lose them. All involved are making that decision...the WSL suits, judges, and surfers alike. At this point even if I'm inclined to agree with Medina in a technical sense, or a 'letter of the law' kind of way, I still can't side with him. Not with his arrogant whiny attitude and antics like "laughing" in the comments of a WSL IG post celebrating Cole's win. That's so unsportsmanlike I honestly don't even know if I can ever root for Medina again. Look, no one is "out to get" the Brazilians. There's no massive right-wing conspiracy to choose winners and losers here. There's just bad sportsmanship from some of the best surfers in the world and then poor leadership and responses from the WSL in dealing with it all. I bet Armando Galaraga would laugh his ass off at all of these "elite" surfer's whining and their social media antics while Jim Joyce would probably just shake his head at the WSL in disbelief. The whole "pro" surfing world needs to do better. Period.
He can speak up he shouldn't be gaged . Yeah it didn't fall his way but there is a problem and i guess this is his way of getting people talking more about it .
@@DarknessYT2010 The "problem" is that it's part of the sport. There's no conspiracy. He can certainly be forgiven for speaking up in the heat of the moment during the impromptu post heat interview but him commenting laugh emojis on the WSL's post for Cole is unsportsmanlike as hell. Cole doesn't deserve that. Not to mention the other IG posts and comments Gabe made. Like I said, there's a right way and a wrong way and he shouldn't have to be told at his age and stature in the sport which is which.
Thanks for sharing and easy to see where you are coming from and the bad taste that the complaining and whining as its been called is leaving in surf fans mouths globally. Good call on the sportsmanship, I didnt see the wsl IG post you refer to but that sounds cool.
@@lamar_actual Liking this convo, thanks guys it gets me thinking. It would take a confident human to say 100% there is no desire for an american or non Brazilian champ at wsl
Look guys, you don't get 10's just because you spin a complete circle. It needs a smooth seamless landing preferably on the slope to transition back into the wave with Speed and Flow. We've all seen that the judges won't score a flop in the mush with the ensuing struggle to stand back up. Medina couldn't even admit his mental 'mistake' of not using priority on the last wave. Cry is free mate
Yeah 100% right re the mistake with priority and the situation with the judging wouldnt have occurred, Winki is a wave that has no bottom or ramp to land mostly steep to flats thats make the landings even more challenging, no ones saying it was a 10 but if backhand reos we did in the 80/90s gets you 7 so should that air, gotta encourage people to have a go at those sections with abandon rather count the reos, that is old. Thanks for the contribution to the chat and show.
seems like no one watched the whole thing!? I thought robbo v cibilic was badly judged (they gave raw uncontrolled surfing the nod, well ok ..)(and did I see footage of robbo punching his board?). then pittar v ewing they changed their minds and scored flow for ewing (i thought a much greater difference in the surfing than robbo v cibilic, ok wtf but..). then medina houshmand you gota knock the champ out right? nope .. and i immediatedly took it medina was also comenting on the 2 previous heats since social media had gone nuclear about them .. i.e. the surfers rep not yet but hes so on it he should be imo ?). then the waida colapinto heat settles it, complete f up judging and no matter what country they all went ballistic about it ......................................
Love you Barton and you know it. But what about "the dance"? How can a wave where the surfer sacrifices "the dance" to do an "air" (Medina, Bells, 197865757th air, etc) be better than a wave where the surfer (Cole, Bells, etc) does the dance all the way in, mate? Seriously! And what about HOW DISRESPECTFUL Medina was to Cole on this post-heat interview? Did you notice that Medina assumed/implied etc THAT COLE WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO GET HE SCORE ON THE WAVE? And did you notice that that is PRECISELY AND EXACTLY THE VERY SAME THING that WORLD CHAMPION TOLEDO DID TO JACKSON BAKER ONE YEAR AGO AT THIS VERY SAME BELL'S LOCATION? Seriously mate
I would agree, but it wasn’t a clean landing. If it were clean he would have won. And I know how difficult it is to get back up after that, but it looks sloppy.
Repeative back hand, bottom turn top turn combos are 💤 that said I hate watching over telegraphed airs... tictac tictac boost... boring. I love big rail turns, huge gouges displacing buckets, and radical finishing moves, be it huge reo, an off axis air, or fin throw. I wanna see surfers combo things up, and I reckon the girls are a much better watch at the moment.
Agreed! Combo turns are the best, mixing up powerful turns with flow add airs to the mix is gold. Full rail turns with flow and great manoeuvres and wave read.
Yeah those waves were underwhelming and the repetitive reos were boring for me, I want to see progression and fireworks and people be able to win through performance even though they might not be on the best waves of the heat.
@@barton_lynch I agree on Gabriel‘s backside full rotation air. That wasn’t a chop hop, that was a legit, full rotation, on a waist high wave, with an insane degree of difficulty. I’m guessing less than 10 guys on tour can nail those.
right what I was searching for. such a cool, positive and energising stoked bloke
Thank yeew
Imagine Barton Lynch head of WSL
And Peter King And Kelly Slaterv Head Judges (Kelly also killed it a Tressles finals commentary G.O.A.T.!)
It will be a complete different sport.
So Stoked this Podcast exist.
Bless you guys!
Much love and good vibes from N.Beaches Oz 🙌🏼❤️🤙🏼💪🏽
now you talking ...im thinking LIV surfing or Rebel Tour , Slab tour need to inject insane waves , no mid year but EOY cut . Perry hatchet to come back and over hall the judging
@@DarknessYT2010Thank you Sir!
Most surfers on Tour live on fear, very unfortunately, they can't have a voice, right or wrong opinion, no freedom of speech.
Sad to see how the WSL became a monarchy/tyranny pretty much.
The I.S.A. got it, Fernando (the President and founder) makes everything about the surfers and fans.
Bloody oath. No cut, no final, triple crown finish and make the judging transparent
Thank you Migsy.
@@DarknessYT2010 Somethings gunna happen you can bank on that.
Loved your comments about the judgement issues and its lack of accountability lately. Agreed 100%. Independently of nationality of the surfer, competitive surfing judgement needs to be more open for score reviews and accountability to acknowledge mistakes when they happen. Judgement has been mostly good throughout last years but when its not , it seems that nothing can be done to correct it. It’s almost like politics, we see sth is not right and still, nothing changes. Love your raw honesty about it.
Keep going with this podcast…We need it.
did you know the head judge look's over the shoulder they adjust scores ive heard .
Stoked you enjoyed it thank you for tuning in.
Thanks a lot, Barton.
We need people like you discussing the issues instead of just pretending they don't exist.
Pleasure thanks for tuning in, stoked you enjoyed it.
I always appreciate you guys's high knowledge and honesty.
I couldn't agreed more Sir 🙌🏼❤️
Thank you, we appreciate you tuning in.
100% correct analysis. 3 to the beach is now rewarded as the highest form of surfing which is the opposite of encouraging progression, it's a regression back to the 80s.
We all want to see a combination of carves, ariels and creativity. Penalising airs to the point that three-to-the-beach scores higher every time is not the way forward. The next logical step in progressing the sport would be to reserve the highest scores for a combination of carves and airs on the one wave or throughout the heat as a whole.
Thank you Stuart, thats what they gotta fix for sure and encourage surfing that we have never seen. Appreciate you tuning in.
Loved this interview! So rad to see his views on recent judging issues.
Thank yeew for tuning in
I am glad you are saying that. My deepest and utmost respect for you for addressing that. You are constantly proving that you are truly a surfing lover from the heart. We need more people like you to pointing out those barbaric acts. We are dealing with people that has families, a career to manage, and a mental strength to take a good care or they are gonna suffer forever with these bad decisions. Thanks for such a courageous speech.
Thank you very much mate, appreciate you tuning in.
I remember sitting next to a very senior lawyer with facebook on a singapore to bali flight, a lifetime skier and relatively recent convert to surfing..but totally addicted, having a quick break chasing waves in Indo, he put it that the difference and challenge between the sports is that the mountain is moving in surfing....
Great analogy and thanks for sharing
Great show. Thank you for scratching the surface about The St. Clemente storm, judging and who should be judge, the Medina issue, the super Mario encarnation. Every one of those topics deserve a show and plenty of discussion. Finding that bill when you are not even looking for it is more unlikely than winning the lotto.
Epic Yuri stoked you enjoyed the show and yes plenty of space for conversation id say.
That´s why I respect Barton Lynch so much... (and I always respected him as a great surfer too).
Thanks for tuning in, stoked you liked the show.
Great watch again... thankyou lad's ❤
Thank yeew
Always a breathe of fresh high vibes tuning in too you guys. Keep it comin 🌠
It's like politics in Surfing competition, Can't voice your true opinions because ?? Someone's feelings! Barton Lynch is right on the Money and has always been very respectful towards me and I truly appreciate that. I'm Mark from Leucadia Leucadia
Thanks for tuning in Mark, appreciate your positivity.
I'm stoked for the SC
crew. Stoked for the Florence Brothers. Gabriel has been ripping this year his not getting scored what he
deserves. Just my opinion watching. JJF underscored also. I'll throw Kelly in there also.
Great analysis my friend.
Since I've remembered, Bells Event it's the most controversial ever.
Pretty much every event someone gets robbed 💯🤷🏻♂️
Thanks for sharing in the convo.
That was Soooo good thanks mate, there are few broadcasts on this platform that leave me feeling genuinely chuffed with 20 minutes in front of a screen, its a real pleasure to see your stoke as always. $50 buck story was double AA.
Alignment and place on the massive mountain of life as we spin through this centrifugal universe, find your centre and run with it.
Its great to look up to our elders and hear some truth even if its about the simple art of riding waves.
Stoked you enjoyed the show Nick, we appreciate the support and respect.
Hi BL, after listening to your story about stopping right on the $50 dollar spot ,I have to tell you about my needle in a hay stack story .....I call it the power of " POSITIVE thinking ". I was living at Point Dume & on Strong Santa Anna days I would head to Zuma beach & beach comb for coins left uncovered by the wind . ( fun fact my fascination for hunting coins on the beach was a result of the 1971 & 74 ..(I think) Hughe storm event on the Northern beaches . A Norfolk pine were washed down at South Avalon & coins dating back to 1918 etc were unearthed by the waves , lots of treasure...) Any how , Im out walking Zuma ,a very long beach , billions of tons of sand right !!! I walk a mile or so not finding any thing much except pennies .... some what bored I started chanting ,saying to my self I want to find a Diamond ring ........ with in 2 minutes I look down & BAMMMMM !!! A sterling silver 3 carat diamond ring laid ,beautifully presented by the Santa Anna wind . And Barton , it's now my wife's wedding ring ! The Power of Positive thinking !! P.S. we know each other though TC. I'm Lisa's brother .
Hey Richard sorry for the delay mate, and yes remember you but havent seen Lisa in quite a while. That is a fantastic story and ive always been a bit of a treasure hunter myself mate. So very cool you manifested such goodness for yourself and your wife is now wearing it is a powerful and beautiful thing. Thanks for tuning in Rich.
Love this. Talking about things that need to be talked about. Best podcast around. Nice one guys
Thank yeew very much.
@@barton_lynch How about a podcast with a few of the CT or ex-CT (has to be one Brazilian) guys explaining how they think it should be judged? Now that would be interesting, and I think you are well plaed to host and discuss.......
@@shaybowen2239 I think that is a great idea Shay, thanks for sharing.
GREAT SHOW AS ALWAYS BARTON!
Nice and sincerely. Thanks for that.
Thanks for tuning in.
Great podcast!
Thank you.
Bagus Bos 👍🏻
Excellent call on the Gabe Air 👏
Outgoing tide on the WSL , Commentary 🤯
We’re is Miss Miley-Dyer 🤷♂️
So much camera time once , now zip
Thanks for tuning in.
You guys are so stinking entertaining!
Thank you Pete
Great talk and true opinions. I am new here. Looking forward to seeing next videos. Thanks.
Appreciate you tuning in, stoked to have yah onboard.
Great show guys. It sometimes does seem the WSL has a playbook “new heroes” that is forced through judging; except these guys and gals don’t need the positive discrimination, let it play and magic will happen anyway, it’s surfing ❤
Yes mate the surfers and their performances are always the highlight, let it play.
The carving 360 and big fat round houses needs to come into the mix, forget the circus tricks!
I reckon airs have their place, but 10 poo pumps and an air won't cut it. As a finish or keep surfing before and after I like it
@@maxfish4770 I love the airs and wanna see more of them or atleast encouraged, everyone can do the other stuff.
Love a carving 360 but love the airs and know how incredibly hard that is to do so respect its value if it cant be done by most.
@@barton_lynch hey barton some cutbacks and carves are really hard to do also, not everyone can do them properly
@@maxfish4770 "10 poo pumps and an air won't cut it". that is the new rule. I am so happy about it
My fav show lads
BL spot on as usual. Interesting comments " Well we'll have opportunities in the future to fix that " what you got going on BL ??
Stoked you tune in thank you.
@@DarknessYT2010 time will tell but there's talk out there of change
@@DarknessYT2010 that got me curious as well
Hey Barton your lookin like you should be up here with Derek and the rest of us😉
thank you barton for such an honest and respectful conversation! i think because gabe might be one of the greatest surfers of all time and been on tour for over a decade now he's constantly judge based on his past performances rather than his competitors which is wrong and unfair to him... also the guy is a freak and makes everything look easy
100 good call.
How many times did Parko get underscored bc he made things look so easy? Rewarding Skipping past an entire wave to do a sloppy air rev on the end section takes away from flow, connecting turns, and catching set waves. Subjectivity sparks debate, however the real villain is the non transparency of what to expect as a fan.
Well said mate!👊
Yeah the future is the combination of both the airs and the on face performance but the sport should encourage progression done with style.
You know it Hooksy NSBR 4L
@barton_lynch to my mind the perfect wave would be a combo of barrel, buckets of spray gouges and a filthy big air. All connected and made to look easy, the unicorn lol
@@maxfish4770 100%
Spitting truth bombs once again, thanks for keeping it real!!
Happy days 🤙😀🤙
100 thanks you.
As soon as that heated finished, I thought to myself, BL and PK will have something to say about this.
So many other odd score judgements made at that contest too.
ASP rock
Yeah I only watched the semis and final and they were pretty straight forward.
Great show BL!!
Thank yeew
So cool!
The judgment needs to be clearer and this affects everyone regardless of nationality. These uncertainties bring doubt to the institution and consequently a "fight" between us and them that expands on social media. I think that in addition to ending the Final 5 and the Mid-Year Cut, the judgment has to change urgently for the good of professional surfing. Barton is always accurate and honest. 🤙 from 🇧🇷!
Obrigado amigo, if it cant be done by many but a few surely they should be rewarded. Thanks
Cheers Barton...grateful for your podcast, keeping it real. Always tuning in when you post. Missing the 96712 but repping here in 32903. 🤙🏼
Thank you Matt stoked you tune in.
Barton...couldn't wait to hear your always measured pro read. You did, as expected, dial it straight to the point.
I do have to ask, regarding calling that air score bad for surfing, remember when Joey Buran was pulling standard 360s over and over, getting huge scores for them, when it was new, but do you think those 360s he was pulling should still be getting the same scores he got now? It seems like if the idea is to reward progression, then progression needs to keep moving forward.
Love your show always...both of you.
Thanks.
that is exactly right, medina and italo and toledo are doing these airs for A DECADE now, they are boring and they are like FART AIRS, specially when they do 28 poo-pumps and sacrifice the entire wave to do some ACROBATIC CRAP AIR
What about snaps, lay backs and so on? Should they be getting lower scores too? People have doing them forever! How many snaps and carves... u saw on that comp? Now how many full rotations did I see?
@maurodalbosco9831 Fair point and it did occur to me as well, but still, what do we do with things like the standard 360 of the 80s that did garner massive scores then? What do we do with air revos of the 90s?
The airs are great to see, especially in the sadly small mess Bells gave at the end of the comp, so, that isn't the point nor question. The question, in a more general sense I suppose, relates to how does judging move as time moves?
@@scottthomasen8978 Good point. I think the first thing that we (everyone: surfers, WSL, judges, audience, journalists, commentators etc) NEED to understand is that the judging criteria is A CHOICE. Whoever rules the sport -- in this case the WSL -- *chooses* to say that this and that maneuver deserve high scores and this and that maneuver deserve so-so scores etc. This is a very simple and obvious FACT but it seems that a large part (maybe the major part) of the audience, the commentators and the surfers DOESN'T NOTICE that. So much so that people (from Gabriel Medina to anonymous surf commentators like us) talk about "natural progression of the sport" all the time; But there is no such thing when it comes to judging criteria. It is a CHOICE. For the past 10 or so years WSL has chosen to score airs and not score a lot of other things including barrels and including "the dance" (anyone who watches this channel must be familiar with "the dance" that Barton talked about previously). What has this CHOICE caused in the past few years? Well, some of the surfers (mostly Medina and Ítalo did this but others -- specially Brazilians -- followed suit) decided that they did not need to 1) choose the best waves of their heat, and 2) they didn't need to surf those waves. Because all it took to make a hear was to catch two mediocre close-outs, do 8 or 10 "poo-pumps" on them to get some speed and do a fart-air. Boom! There you have it! A 7 and an 8! And you beat that other dude who was trying to catch the best waves of the heat and that was trying to surf them (!). One more example of THE CHOICE: in 2023, at glorious, maxing, brutal 15-plus Sunset Beach, WSL CHOSE to ignore the outside section and gave scores to waves that were caught on the inside. That CHOICE sent a clear message and NO ONE was even trying to drop the waves on the outside Sunset, no one is trying to manage the speed of doing that, no one is even trying to do those unbelievably hard (and extremely amusing to watch!) bottom turns on those massive waves. Waves are breaking alone on the outside and they run for 15, 20, 25 SECONDS (!!!) without anyone on them! Then, on the inside, one of the best surfers n the world drops this wave, does a nice maneuver in one vertical section and when he goes to do the second turn the wave is already flat in the channel; What is that? That is A CHOICE. What happens? A LOT! Have you ever seen any of the current best surfers in the world surf a Sunset wave like Gary Elkerton did in the 80s? Are they even capable of riding maxing outside Sunset? Have they ever even tried to do that? I don't know! If WSL had CHOSEN that that -- droping and riding 15-plus wavs at maxing Sunset -- was an important part of the sport, we would have all the surfers TRYING to surf and likely evolving a lot on those conditions, including kids and surfers that are willing to join the tour. What we have today is basically everyone trying to do airs because WSL has CHOSEN for 10 years that airs are the good thing that deserves to be scored. And that has changed again because WSL CHOSE about two or three years ago to stop scoring "fart-airs". They didn't inform anyone about this CHOICE, which is one of the main causes of all the commotion we are seeing for the past two years specially from Brazil, where the majority of the people who watch surf are convinced that WSL is out ta get the Brazilians.
@ludurigan Thanks man. Makes me think that it would be really cool for all of us to see those pre comp sheets that they say are handed out to the surfers explaining what the judges will be looking for.
Love this site and chat area. Nice to have respectful, thoughtful, even keeled conversations. All starts from how great Barton does it...
Cheers.
I think the problem the judges had with the air was the lack of a clean landing. Medina had to work to get back up (with most of the effort being provided by the power of the white wash).
I dont know, I can see that but only if you are looking for reasons to discount rather than reason to credit, full rotation and not down long. Thank you though.
I’m sorry to say, that Occy is sorta responsible for why the WSL can’t judge correctly. The “back hand reentry”, because of how it’s linked to Occy, is, undeservingly, the most important maneuver on tour for points. Remember when Curren stomped Occy in the Heritage heat and Occy only lands one back hand reentry the entire time and magically it’s the best thing ever that’s ever happened?
That was a shame
@@andrewwood4013 and Curren surfed the Heritage Heat better than the pros in the actual event. It’s the same with Caroline Marks, because they’ve deemed her the female Occy, all she has to do is,“back hand reentries”, and it’s an automatic title win. It’s like Cole’s victory over Griffin. Great, great surfing, and a back hand reentry done over and over, isn’t not impressive, it is, but I’m not sure how it beats a giant 360 air of consequence done perfectly like Griff did. And!!, I’m not even a huge fan of air surfing in general, but it merits something with regard to difficulty, variety, and high risk as a finish, or anywhere, in a combo of maneuvers done on a wave for that matter. Surfing should be gaged more like a line for variety, like skating. Even if you had the best back hand reentry in the world, doing it over and over and over and over on every single wave, would be considered cool for the sake of consistency, but not the be all to winning a contest. It’s like frontside surfing get dumped on because back hand reentries remind the judges of some fetish they have for Occy whose back hand reentry was more a facet of his size and stature as a person than it was about anything else. His low frame gave him a unique power back hand. Great. But it’s not the only thing in surfing, and Occy’s back hand reentry shouldn’t be surfing’s entire benchmark for all eternity. It wasn’t even as good as anything Curren did style wise, ever, in my opinion.
@@mikeuptegrove Thank you for contributing to the conversation and as a massive Occ fan I had never looked at it like that but see where you are coming from. Sounds like you know more thank you think. Thanks again.
Good recall on the heritage heat, that was a confusing result but not if you think like a judge thinks and i have to find myself doing that and ignoring my own opinions to get a score right.
@@barton_lynch thanks Barton. Love the show and your perspective mate; a breath of fresh air, and from someone with clout. 👏👏 So I definitely admire your willingness to step out on the ledge for the betterment of the sport in general; say what needs to be said.
I know a lot about my opinions. 😂😂 Yeah, NOT NOT (double negative) an Occy fan, but, more of a Curren fan personally, especially if style is a metric and benchmark for surfing. Occy’s back hand reentry is great but it’s definitely a facet of his personal frame and size. But, I’ve noticed that all the WSL does is pay homage to Occy and use his backside reentry as the highest standard for all scoring. There hasn’t been a heat that a backside reentry isn’t over scored and then noted as being Occy’esc. They literally remind us every time why the backhand reentry is the best: because of Occy. Got it. Every “Carolupo”, backside reentry is noted as the greatest thing ever done in surfing. Great. Love Occy. Fan yes. Absolutely. I’m just tired of seeing the backhand reentry being staged as the best thing ever, forever and ever, because of Occy’s legacy and contribution to surfing. It’s almost as if he’s the only surfer who ever laid bricks the way we hear about the comparison over and over at every single event. Yes, give credit where credit is do, of course, but I guess at a certain point, the question, IS: should a backhand reentry be the bedrock for the highest standard of surfing indefinitely because Occy had a unique and powerful approach to it because of his body type? I sorta feel that’s precisely where surfing is being held hostage. By that measure everyone on tour just needs to copy Occy’s backhand reentry, that’s the ONLY winner apparently. For example, how awesome was Kelly’s 360 carve he did at a previous event??! A 4 point maneuver?? That was about the sickest thing we’ve seen in forever that added some spice and variety and it’s not easy, that’s why no one does them, but it gets a 4.3 or something absurd?! Okay, pick any surfer on tour and tell them to pull a 360 carve in any run in any heat. I’d love to see it. If it’s so easy then it’s an easy way to add variety, yet it’s virtually never done. Gets 4 points when it is. Seen 8 billion backhand reentries throw water on tour, can’t recall who did a 360 carve before the last one Kelly did for 4 points. Anyone know?
Good on Gabriel stand up for the sport other surfers wont. They judge Gabriel against Gabriel or ive seen him do it better thats not what its about . In my opinion one of the best surfers to ever get on a board
Thank you Kev, appreciate you tuning in.
I don’t have a bone in this fight but how does contest judging guidance come into play for the event? My understanding is the that the judging emphasis for Bells is focused on speed, power, and flow versus airs or any other individual maneuvers. Using an air as a finishing maneuver is very different than using a wave for a single air. Seems like this is an area that needs more transparency and clarity. Definitely understand where Gabe is coming from regarding the air but he also should have shut down Cole’s last wave.
100% shouldve shut down Coles last wave, that was his mistake for sure but those waves were small and not traditional Bells or Winki and desperate times for the event and that air to me was the most exciting, technical and futuristic thing of the whole heat and when its ignored people stop doing therm and progression stalls
Where's Martin Potter what does he think of the judges that would be an interesting interview get on it barton
Potts had had enough of the merry go round and wanted to spend life with his family and most probably doesnt care.
@@barton_lynch ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh man. he definitely cares! didn't you see he posted on the lisa andersen thing? he cares! and he is SAD, SAD, SAD with pro surfing. not sure if you have a good relation with him (good enough to invite him for a talk on the stoke bloke show tec) but WOW, I would (and i am sure a lot of blokes would) LOVE to hear YOU TWO GUYS talking about pro surfing! I could do that for 10 hours! 18 hours!
Even without Gabe pulling an air I think his surfing was so much more fluid then Cole’s but having said that the complaining by the Brazilians is enough to bring pro surfing to an end.
Not a fan of Brazilians complaining or claiming. However, Gabe surfed a really good heat with creativity, variation and flair. Handstands was pedestrian and repetitive... then he gets gifted a 9.x against Ethan...
Nothing rigged here folks, nothing to see... move along...
We'll have a US champ soon enough, by hook or by crook...
@@mark130471 I don’t know that it’s rigged because Cole surfed well. I just think that everyone raves about Ethan’s flow but doesn’t seem to credit the flow that Medina has, especially backhand. It’s not just lip hooks, he has great variety.
@@Rockbottomsurf I'm going for rigged. Gabe had that heat IMHO and I'm pretty much as anti Brazilian as you can get...
I'm just putting this out there... the WSL has rigged the comp to ensure a US champion, for profit (taking nothing away from the smarts and surfing being shown by Griff).
Yeah I found it hard to differentiate the scores, I really love Gab's surfing and Cole i had never really seen but the air I loved. Something fresh and different that you cant imagine doing.
@@mark130471 Thanks for sharing yah thoughts with us, keep moving along as you say.
That incident that happened to Gabby is good for him,because,last year the same thing happened to Felipe Toledo and he became world champ!
Thank yeew
@@barton_lynch Met u back in da 80's in Mauritius,u surfed big Pass at La Morne,training for Reunion contest.Those days u had to lick a stamp and attach to postcard and pop it into the snail mail box to send news home.Met u at da post box.Gr8 ol' days,how time flies.Keep up the good controversy,rock da wsl's sinking boat!
@@michaeldamant2485 Amazing Michael they were indeed great times to live and what a piece of paradise that was/ is, you still there?
@@barton_lynch Hey BL,was on a surf trip at Tamarin bay from South Africa,was good then,but,the French Mauritians have become wankers like the wsl wankers!
Madagascar a better option!
Take it slow Dad!
The WSL sent emails to the Surfers letting them know what the Judging will be based on that day... Cole surfed to the System in that Heat!
They always send that out, its always the same things worded differently, and never really has much impact, good surfing is good surfing, great surfing is great surfing, the criteria dont say much diff to what has for decades but if it was easy everyone would be doing it but it aint under pressure in a heat and thanks for sharing
Barton lynch for head of wsl. Peter king commentary and kelly slater head judge. Then we have some legit judging 💯🤙
That would be a shit show haaaaa maybe not.
@@barton_lynch 😂
@@barton_lynch nah mate . Would be awesome 🤙💯 can't wait for next stop west oz. Hope the box goes off .
@@MikeWatson-p2j The box would be great for us and them.
I agree with you, BL 8,50 or up not 6,30...
Thanks
Can we talk about how all 5 judges are scoring VERY closely EVERY time. It's just impossible to explain other than they are TOLD the tight range they ALLOWED to score.
The only way to explain the situation is that the head judge is effectly scoring every wave by himself. The five hired stooges are just a front.
i remember seeing head judge deliberating over scores tweaking them to make sure they got it right . How is that not bias,influenced judging
That’s harsh but use of a head judge is horrible as currently applied. If they were blind judging it would be better, less bias.
It can definitely look like that from the outside, and in. The judge who doesnt fall into line with the school of thought is the high or low all the time and his or her score removed anyway so yes there is a inherent pressure in the system to conform.
@@barton_lynch Yes thats a part and I know from scoring boardriders club comps there has to be direction or outlyer judges become a continual dead score. What I fail to see is that in a subjective system that the scores are grouped within a point virtually every time. It just does not add up.
@@xwhite2020 No it doesnt add up, flawed from the very start with the need for 5 people to agree to look right and then comes the pressure to fall in line, shit system if you ask me.
stoked! yeeew
Thank yeew
Barton you are wrong on that, those backside air reverses are pretty easy "one you get them dialled"compared to linking 5 critical turns. Hard for your generation but 30 years ago Ratboy, Chris Ward &Tim Curran had them dialled, yes 30 years ago.
People have had 5 critical turns on a 3footer wired for longer than that id say
yep. Those were cool in 2009
@@ludurigan share yah best from 2009 please? I wasnt consuming surfing then but want to see the comparison
@@barton_lynch what i mean barton is that those airs were cool and different a decade and a half ago (in 2009). now they are predictable and boring. i don't care if just a handful of surfers (Medina Toledo and Italo and a few others) are able to do these airs. Christian Fletcher did poor versions of them in 1989 and they were just as boring. The fact that curren and occy and carroll can't do them show how disposable they are to surfing. One thing is evolving. Other thing is to go on the wrong direction.
6:37 agree, which is why he was the winner 6:46 disagree. no flair. surfing further away from the lip & curl and just hacking the waves off the tail of the board
Thank you Barbarra
These feelings only come out when it's happening to the chosen few but when it's happening to the non cookie cutter guys like Zeke Lau he becomes a villan (ie. Sunset twice, Bells w/JJ and Felipe etc.) Gabriel knows what the WSL is doing. They have their guys they want to push through and the guys they want to cancel. It's not a big secret, it's a fact. The WSL has a certain image they want to promote. When you have any system that is determined by peoples opinions, it sucks! Bobby Martinez said it awhile ago.
Well said mate, its amazing that it can not be a big secret, hopefully the agenda can be on the sideline and not front and centre and let the surfing do the talking.
Still waiting for that appeal system haha.
Dont hold your breath ha
Anyone else think Rio Waida is consistently under scored?
It is hard to know exactly on a screen but i think they do play favourites at times and Rio hasnt been one yet. Thanks for tuning in.
Give us the full 2 hours, to hell with editing!
💯
Not much editing going no brother but definitely get asked to make them longer, your thoughts? thanks again.
@@barton_lynch I don’t mind long format interviews, personally, as I just let it play while I’m sitting in Sydney traffic!
@@jayveethreefive5214 there is worst things to listen to I suppose, ha.
@@barton_lynch I am all for 100% RAW, no edits
WSL are too arrogant to learn. Judging will always be controversial because its subjective and some people will whinge no matter what. If they had a full breakdown of judging, film the whole thing, show us the process and most will understand or accept decisions a lot better
Fair call that one, thanks.
The subjective nature of scoring in surfing will always offer some amount of controversy. That's just sports. That's just life.
What some of those involved need to learn is there's a right way and a wrong way to deal with it when it happens.
All involved seem hell bent on doing things the wrong way.
I love all of the Brazilian surfers. Medina, Filipe, Italo, Joao, Yago and all the rest...they're all amazing surfers and seem like truly likeable fellas but the constant whining from their fans, (often riddled with absurd accusations of "racism" etc), is definitely enough to turn the casual fan's stomach. The way in which they chime in themselves sometimes doesn't help matters either.
Like I said, there's a right way and a wrong way.
And this is a lesson that the WSL also needs to learn before it's too late.
I think all the Brazilian surfers, their respective "fan club" presidents, all of the WSL suits, and all of the WSL judges need to go into a dark room behind a closed doors for a private session to watch the June 02, 2010 MLB game between the Detroit Tigers and Cleveland Indians.
They should not skip ahead.
They need to sit there for the whole 3 hours and watch from beginning to end and then they need to watch all of the press conference footage afterward as well.
They need to understand what was at stake and the contrition and grace offered by all involved.
They all need to understand that with each response to controversy they are either gaining fans or losing them.
All too often they're making the decision to lose them. All involved are making that decision...the WSL suits, judges, and surfers alike.
At this point even if I'm inclined to agree with Medina in a technical sense, or a 'letter of the law' kind of way, I still can't side with him.
Not with his arrogant whiny attitude and antics like "laughing" in the comments of a WSL IG post celebrating Cole's win.
That's so unsportsmanlike I honestly don't even know if I can ever root for Medina again.
Look, no one is "out to get" the Brazilians. There's no massive right-wing conspiracy to choose winners and losers here.
There's just bad sportsmanship from some of the best surfers in the world and then poor leadership and responses from the WSL in dealing with it all.
I bet Armando Galaraga would laugh his ass off at all of these "elite" surfer's whining and their social media antics while Jim Joyce would probably just shake his head at the WSL in disbelief.
The whole "pro" surfing world needs to do better. Period.
He can speak up he shouldn't be gaged . Yeah it didn't fall his way but there is a problem and i guess this is his way of getting people talking more about it .
@@DarknessYT2010 The "problem" is that it's part of the sport. There's no conspiracy. He can certainly be forgiven for speaking up in the heat of the moment during the impromptu post heat interview but him commenting laugh emojis on the WSL's post for Cole is unsportsmanlike as hell. Cole doesn't deserve that. Not to mention the other IG posts and comments Gabe made. Like I said, there's a right way and a wrong way and he shouldn't have to be told at his age and stature in the sport which is which.
Thanks for sharing and easy to see where you are coming from and the bad taste that the complaining and whining as its been called is leaving in surf fans mouths globally. Good call on the sportsmanship, I didnt see the wsl IG post you refer to but that sounds cool.
@@DarknessYT2010 and again you are right, there are different ways for us to see the same things and thats a good thing.
@@lamar_actual Liking this convo, thanks guys it gets me thinking.
It would take a confident human to say 100% there is no desire for an american or non Brazilian champ at wsl
!!!
Tf Barton an 8 for a sloppy landed air?!
Look guys, you don't get 10's just because you spin a complete circle. It needs a smooth seamless landing preferably on the slope to transition back into the wave with Speed and Flow. We've all seen that the judges won't score a flop in the mush with the ensuing struggle to stand back up. Medina couldn't even admit his mental 'mistake' of not using priority on the last wave. Cry is free mate
Yeah 100% right re the mistake with priority and the situation with the judging wouldnt have occurred, Winki is a wave that has no bottom or ramp to land mostly steep to flats thats make the landings even more challenging, no ones saying it was a 10 but if backhand reos we did in the 80/90s gets you 7 so should that air, gotta encourage people to have a go at those sections with abandon rather count the reos, that is old. Thanks for the contribution to the chat and show.
Robbie page
seems like no one watched the whole thing!? I thought robbo v cibilic was badly judged (they gave raw uncontrolled surfing the nod, well ok ..)(and did I see footage of robbo punching his board?). then pittar v ewing they changed their minds and scored flow for ewing (i thought a much greater difference in the surfing than robbo v cibilic, ok wtf but..). then medina houshmand you gota knock the champ out right? nope .. and i immediatedly took it medina was also comenting on the 2 previous heats since social media had gone nuclear about them .. i.e. the surfers rep not yet but hes so on it he should be imo ?). then the waida colapinto heat settles it, complete f up judging and no matter what country they all went ballistic about it ......................................
Controversy corner at wsl, they need elders guiding the judgements to steer them in the right direction.
Love you Barton and you know it. But what about "the dance"? How can a wave where the surfer sacrifices "the dance" to do an "air" (Medina, Bells, 197865757th air, etc) be better than a wave where the surfer (Cole, Bells, etc) does the dance all the way in, mate? Seriously! And what about HOW DISRESPECTFUL Medina was to Cole on this post-heat interview? Did you notice that Medina assumed/implied etc THAT COLE WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO GET HE SCORE ON THE WAVE? And did you notice that that is PRECISELY AND EXACTLY THE VERY SAME THING that WORLD CHAMPION TOLEDO DID TO JACKSON BAKER ONE YEAR AGO AT THIS VERY SAME BELL'S LOCATION? Seriously mate
I would agree, but it wasn’t a clean landing. If it were clean he would have won. And I know how difficult it is to get back up after that, but it looks sloppy.
Start a new league!
Stranger things have happened, thanks.
Repeative back hand, bottom turn top turn combos are 💤 that said I hate watching over telegraphed airs... tictac tictac boost... boring. I love big rail turns, huge gouges displacing buckets, and radical finishing moves, be it huge reo, an off axis air, or fin throw. I wanna see surfers combo things up, and I reckon the girls are a much better watch at the moment.
Agreed! Combo turns are the best, mixing up powerful turns with flow add airs to the mix is gold. Full rail turns with flow and great manoeuvres and wave read.
Interested point of view to be consider in 2024 surfing judging criteria 🤔
@@MrHilltop77 Think the judges have been worded up on the helicopter airs as they not scoring them . How many times has Madina thrown one for 8.5- 9
Yeah those waves were underwhelming and the repetitive reos were boring for me, I want to see progression and fireworks and people be able to win through performance even though they might not be on the best waves of the heat.
@@barton_lynch I agree on Gabriel‘s backside full rotation air. That wasn’t a chop hop, that was a legit, full rotation, on a waist high wave, with an insane degree of difficulty. I’m guessing less than 10 guys on tour can nail those.