The science-fiction cult classic Warhammer 40,000 seems to follow the pattern of Oswald Spengler’s civilizational theory on the rise, decline and eventual fall of empires to a T, especially regarding The Imperium Of Mankind.
I love it when you are watching something new and then you hear someone’s name and then check him out and that’s how I ended up hear and I already love this video as it’s more knowledgeable than what we have been thought in school. There’s too much out there that we still need to learn and to start thinking out side of the box. Will definitely be a subscriber. Thanks pal
strange choice for a viral marketing campaign... in b4 "Julius Evola - how to transcend our current age of dissolution and live according to Tradition - brought to you by Pepsi"
I have the single-volume, unabridged edition from George Allen & Unwin, 1934, a beautiful book. What a terrible shame that we did not get another decade or two of Oswald Spengler. Clever use of the mini Gothic arches over your left shoulder!
I watched your video 3 times to ensure I didn't miss anything. I have studied Spengler for many years, and I think it is necessary to become very familiar with Goethe, especially his concepts on Morphology, before you can easily grasp Spengler. Goethe's concepts of Polarization, Intensification, Competition and the Principle of Compensation are all used within Spengler's work.
Thank you. I have read Henri Bortoft's 'The Wholeness of Nature', and I have recently acquired, though not yet read, Steiner's introduction to Goethe, translated by John Barnes. Is there anything else you recommend?
Look into William Blake's Marriage of Heaven and Hell, The Will To Create: Goethe's Philosophy Of Nature ~ Astrida Orle Tantillo. If you have questions I will try to help.
Blue is not a very natural colour that is rare in nature, thus the discovery and introduction of blue pigments probably happened last and were relatively expensive compared to black, brown or any of the other colours.
I think that you have more or less got Spengler's ideas, or at least the ones you discussed in the first half of your video. You mentioned the tables where he analogizes different high cultures, and the fact he doesn't give an objective method of how he got them, well what you are mentioning is the very same problem Goethe had when he tried to make the archetypal plant, he gave up and came up with the ideal of each plant itself: it's leaf, the Ur-Phanomenon of each plant, or in this case High Culture. If you look at his predictions for this century, and the last, it is simply to clearly accurate to ignore. Spengler is right, this is the century of Caesarism, we are now in the transition from very last gasps of Nationalism and Party Politics; into the Personality Cults of Caesarism and Mercenary armies of this century. The Western nations are dissolving into a formless mass, collapse in birth rates, the decline of the Mass Media and the rise of Social Media which allow individuals to speak directly to the people and usurp the power of the Rich and their tool the Press.
Certainly in the days of D'Annunzio and his imitators like Mussolini, Hitler and Franco, Spengler seemed to have got it spot on. But then we apparently returned to multi-party democracy and constitutional monarchy, which does not seem to represent caesarism to me. Nor can I identify caesars in the present day. Or have I misunderstood what caesarism is? I cannot remember Spengler ever defining caesarism. What are the characteristics of caesarism? Is it just another word for dictatorship, or is there some subtlety to it? Is the archetype the politics of Julius Caesar or is it that of Augustus and the principate? Who are the foci of these personality cults in the contemporary west, if such there be?
Many people say that JFK beat Nixon because JFK recognized the role and importance of TV in public perception, especially at the presidential debate where Nixon refused to wear makeup. I think that JFK was the first TV president, and Trump is the first social media president. The traditional media is losing sway and with that control of the democratic process, Newspapers are actually in their death throes. Politicians can now communicate directly with the people through twitter/youtube/facebook, without the filters of the wealthy and educated elites.
Instead of military Caesars, we have corporate Caesars now that control the whole world and are exploiting it until it dies. The destruction of the ecosystem that sustains human life certainly qualifies as a war against the whole human species, against the future, and against the planet. Caesarism has arrived throughout the world, but this time, it has taken an economic rather than a military form. Anyone who seriously defies corporate power is imprisoned or killed in most countries.
Courtney Meyers Very interesting, what do you think of Steve Jobs? So it seems inevitable that the tendency will then be towards mercenary armies for the corporate powers .
I remember someone saying, "welcome to America - where everything is illegal and everybody does it anyway." - how apt,... and did not Nietzsche say something about how the criminal views his life fatalistically? In any case, the truth is, we do not have freedom of speech in America - how so? Because Americans are far too paranoid to speak truthfully. And for the few that do, one must speak in a matter of great precision or cleverousness - and this is always grease-addled, very often ritualistically, with alcohol, food, loud noise or innumerable distractions, such as some arbitrary, tangential "media" reference point. Plain speech can only come from a comedian, it would seem. If one is interested in making decent conversation as a way of life, I would advise against moving here - especially considering the revelations of Edward Snowden; after all, every "smart" phone sentried in a residence is a de facto violation of the 3rd Amendment.
Society has gone in a very interesting direction. People are not only paranoid about speaking the truth, there are quite a lot of people that ostracize and publicly ridicule speakers of the truth for their violation of "political correctness." We are not too far away from a future where neighbors report each other to the authorities for thought crime violations. If... as you have already alluded to... our cell phones and computers haven't already done that... EDIT: Corrected a typo.
he never, Islamic forces did & destroyed another 6000 stores of books in a bid to eradicate other opinions/history/religions and to control the poor Muslims [various races] who were abused/enslaved and have been brainwashed for the past 1400 years.
You are right. It seems that a lot of people burned it over the centuries and precisely who destroyed what is not completely clear. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria
I could say, did you watch the video? This is exactly what I am talking about. According to Spengler, Islam or, more precisely, the Magian, is a spent civilisation that has exhausted all its potential. It should not be capable of throwing up an aggressive, self-confident, innovative movement like ISIS or Salafism generally. If you take Spenglerian theory literally, ISIS looks more like a pre-cultural 'Merovingian' movement that is taking Islam from the Magian civilisation and doing something very different with it, just as the West took Christianity from the Magian civilisation and did something very different with it.
@@DarkAgeTheorist Modern Islamism feels like just another expression of the western moves toward collectivism with some delay, an magian version of nazism. Only a few years ago there were moving to liberalisation after embracing royalty, again mirroring the Occidental civilisation which dominates them.
@@DarkAgeTheoristISIS was an example of Wahabbism lashing out as it loses power. And Wahabbism itself is a sure sign, according to Spengler, that a Civilization is reaching it's terminal age. Apologies for not replying until just now- making my way through your excellent videos 👌
According to the the monk historian and theologian Tyrannius Rufinus and the historian of the Christian church Salminius Hermias Sozomenus, Theophilus of Alexandria , Patriarch of Alexandria, discovered a hidden pagan temple. He and his followers mockingly displayed the pagan artifacts to the public which offended the pagans enough to provoke an attack on the Christians. The Christian faction counter-attacked, forcing the pagans to retreat to the Serapeum, which at that time may have housed what remained of the Alexandrian Library. In response to this conflict the emperor sent Theophilus a letter ordering that the offending pagans be pardoned, but giving permission to destroy the temple and its pagan contents. According to church historian Socrates Scholasticus or Socrates of Constantinople, the emperor granted permission to destroy the temple in response to heavy solicitation by Theophilus.
not Entirely .. it was composed of different Ethnic groups all under the banner of Islam .. many were Arabs such as - Al-Battani - Ibn al-Haytham - Al-Kindi - Ibn al-Shatir - Ibn Yunus - Ibrahim ibn Sinan - Ibn Bājja (known as Avempace in Europe ) - Ismail al-Jazari - Jabir ibn Aflah and many many more if you try to change the fact that Arabs contribution made bounce and leaps in mathematics and geography and others then you going to have a hard time because you are going against the factual things
@@traditionalfood367 except the ones i mentioned are all Arabians of an Arab tribe not saying there were no Persian brilliant people who contributed a lot but the fact you try to remove the influence of the Arabians shows that you are biased for a reason or another
Classic Saul Alinsky tactic of accusing the other of that which you're doing yourself. Nomadic tribes and academic scholarship CENTURIES AGO; yeah, right.
@@traditionalfood367 your argument is invalid because A) not all Arabians are nomads , in fact most of the major tribes are cities dwellers such as Quraysh , Tayy , Himyar , Azd and others (each one branched into many tribes) B) the Arabians already had civilization in the Peninsula such as Kingdom of Dilmun , Kingdom of Saba , Kingdom of Lihyan , Kingdom of Kindah and Himyar and many others C) even for those being Nomad doesn't mean they can't build civilization not only Arabians of the peninsula , but the Ammorites (whom are Arabs because "Semite" is a western term) were also Nomads , but came from the desert and conquered Mesopotamia and built Babylonian Empire and were known for their laws and knowledge that was lights years ahead of others worldwide (except for few like Egypt) even the Persian tribes that you seem to love a bit too much were Nomads till 900 BCE and didn't even know farming ! (at least the Arabians had kingdoms and farmed and be partially nomad depends on the tribe) invaded Elam and others in modern day Iran and later built their own empire so yeah .. your argument is SUPER invalid and the names i mentioned above were only FEW of the Arab scientists who did wonderful things that you try your best to look down upon since you are biased
All human organizations must have a slave/peon/proletariat class. These are the multitude who do most of the leg work. There is not enough money/silver/material wealth to pay them what they're worth, so they are paid in promises. This is spelled out in Orwell s 1984. An organization that does not have the pyramid structure will lose against one that does.
@midgetydeath For some reason, your comment reminded me of the southpark episode where the kids go to the future and there is a war between three scientific tribes. ua-cam.com/video/t0fCL82XwwU/v-deo.html
@Irv Hh, yes I've come to a similar conclusion after 39 years observing and participating in society. It's just a law of nature and most likely impossible to avoid, in this dimension, anyway
@Pepe the Great, I'm pretty sure Mr. Miller understands that a cartoon is not reality. He was just commenting on the similarities between the concepts.
Unfortunately I did not understand as much as you did. I tried to focus on Spenglers ideas regarding consciousness, such as time and depth, as I believe they relate to the experience described as "enlightenment." I did not understand what he meant when he said what time was (something "become rigid"), but I felt deep appreciation for his pointing out that depth-experience was an idea, as well as his ideas regarding human existence being the process of conceptualization confronting the sense world of color, and the deep existential dread that ensues (perhaps I misinterpreted). He certainly understands that life is all "process" by the Godhead, or whatever you would like to call it. I am sorry if I am way off in my understanding. I would appreciate your feedback on the nature cause/time within lived life-experience. Also, how do you feel about Spenglers suspicion that Russia was the "next orange" (considering you are making a different argument).
Western life views life as functional time, dynamically as a process or progress, the western metaphysical symbol is the spectrum with green at the center and the extreme polarities off in opposite directions; as Goethe says all living things are split into opposites, the more extreme the closer to their ideals of black and white, when we combine them they create new green growth and then split again. The Chinese race understands life as balance their symbol for life is Yin/Yang. Metaphysics describes life, Goethe, Blake, Daosim, Heraclitus; but Ethics tries to control life and in that attempt to control it creates its opposite; hence the irony that every ethical ideal achieved in life results in the exact opposite of its intentions.
Brother, since "that every ethical ideal achieved in life results in the exact opposite of its intentions." the most wise thing to do is to don´t have ANY ethical ideal at all? But how can order and peace be stabilished in society whitout ethical ideals? May knowledge set us free.
Illuminattus Rex It creates new problems that results in the requirement of new solutions which create new problems, life is not static it is infinite. Eternal Life is constant change the harmony of opposites in a dualistic dance, to combine them is to destroy them.
You are right, that the Chinese culture is not well paralleled by Spengler. What you might not know is, that in the 1st edition from 1918, which was never translated into English, the Chinese culture barely appears. It's only after the 2nd volume was published, that Spengler reworked the 1st volume in 1923, which then was the basis of the translation into English in 1926 and now contained some excursions into the Chinese culture. That's because in the first volume from 1918 the main concern for Spengler was the distinction of antiquity and the Abendland, as you describe correctly (and which was an answer to the prevalent worship towards antiquity in the 19th century scholarship) . Your closing argument however doesn't fit into the time scale of cultures. The Merowingian time prolonged about 300 years. Contemporary events, which we tend to highly overrate, because of our own short life span are - in most cases - far too small to have something to do with world history.
Thomas Wangenheim Thank you for this information. I didn't know that about Spengler and China. I agree with you that we tend to overestimate the significance of things happening in our own time. Spengler's theory presumably allows for new cultures to be born? Perhaps potential new cultures are being born all the time but most of them fizzle out before reaching the stage of full-fledged cultures/civilisations? I think I was just trying to say that Islamic State doesn't look to me like Spengler's fellahin society, i.e. passive, incapable of concerted action, easily dominated, but if anything seems to fit the "Merovingian" mould...whether it goes on to develop into a Spenglerian culture or gets snuffed out beforehand, I agree is too early to say. While IS is a relatively new phenomenon, perhaps already disappearing, the wider Salafist movement, of which it could be considered a part, is nearly 100 years old.
It's true, that Spengler's concept allowed new cultures to emerge. His example is Russia (a similar overestimation of its sharp economic growth at the time). But the Salafism is not a new phenomenon 100 years ago. On the contrary: It is a movement directed into the past, it is a kind of religious romanticism. So, if anything, it could be seen as an example of the "second religiousness" in Spengler's system, which means that the civilization of a culture rejuvenates or brings back religious forms, that already vanished. But of course that would be far too late to be a part of the Magian culture, that (according to Spengler) is dead since 1000 years.
I thought vaguely that probability too, but actually is not posible for us known the deep path of those peoples, we can no longer able to witness their art, and of couse his decline (lol). If this fact is, indeed, true, we can conclude that Near/Middle East is more susceptible to give birth High Cultures than whatever place in the world.
The Arabs are in terminal decline, it is a total proletarian, destroyed civilization. It is over for them, their population numbers have exploded due to white Europeans introducing their economic and medical methods, but this will all end one day, and with that whatever false upswing they momentarily have.
by America do you mean the Aztecs and Mayans? America is Rome, Western Europe Greece; We are living in the first and possibly last global imperium of the world, the Yankee Imperium Mundi, extensive but shallow, strong but weak; great and yet little.
CartoonPhilosopher Yes, I mean exactly the same you said. America = Precolombian civilizations (Mesoamerica, Andes). I'm not from US, thus US = US, America = American Continent, lol.
I cannot find a good copy. Amazon gives a photocopied edition which is riddled with typos. Anyone have a good suggestion with regards to where I could purchase a copy?
I used the Kindle edition with a purple-blue cover, edited by David Payne and published by Random Shack. The text is good quality without typos. It is funny that here we are in the 21st century and your question sounds like a medieval scholar asking where he can get a good version of a particular work while complaining that the manuscript he has seen has been badly copied.
For the love of god it is NOT "hard to see" what Spengler sees as the consequence of pseudomorphosis - he gets very specific many times. Regarding what your topic is supposed to be about: "The pantheon is the first mosque."
This guy's (often flawed) plot summary lasts 9/10 of the video. The premise of ISIS being an outgrowth of Kultur is fascinating. Please make a follow up video where you actually discuss this concept. And you never once mentioned the difference between culture and civilization. These are the two pillars of Spengler's whole argument.
Would you stand so firmly behind someone interpreting 2+2 as 5? Multiple interpretations are possible and therefore interpretations are not created equal. A rigorous scholar would take the opportunity to re-examine their own material rather than rest on such a postmodernist argument as multiple subjective interpretations.
Is Spengler's philosophy in support of the Christian world view? Though he may speak in the broader perspective? Now another question is what will rise if the west is to decline?
I don't think interactions between cultures violate Spengler's theory. The Muslim world is still filled with people who have brains who can see that they haven't been going too well with respect to the west. Their attempt to reform themselves could simply be a reaction to the west rather than something original.
Good point. Would be worth going back to Spengler to see what he has to say about Egyptian civilisation. Christianity of course owes a lot to Egyptian religion. Jesus was brought up in Egypt for example. Not that that would mean much to Spengler, who seemed to be of the view that Western Christianity had little to do with the original Jesus cult.
@@DarkAgeTheorist "The only ancient culture to develop a word for blue was the Egyptians - and as it happens, they were also the only culture that had a way to produce a blue dye." www.greecehighdefinition.com/blog/2019/4/7/is-it-true-that-the-ancient-greeks-could-not-see-blue-until-modern-times-?fbclid=IwAR30zc5I0UMj1I-0877jgrRS_lYwxDj98XA9TCBs3MlhAjg4zqaFemQg32Y#.XKo9RSlsadE.facebook
@@marcoswillianl Why do people like you comment when you know nothing? It's better to be quiet than give a statement on something you know nothing about. Jesus was born in Betlehem, but shortly after his birth they fled to Egypt because of King Herods persecutions.
Have you considered commenting on Dario Fernandez-Morera’s The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise? It would be of great interest to get your thoughts on it.
Well, I am not sure, but I will make a couple of remarks. On the one hand, it might be said he would consider it a perverse and ultimately unobtainable condition, insofar as he connects a culture/civilisation to a landscape. On the other hand, an example of multiculturalism that was available to him in his day was the presence of Jewish communities within the landscape of Western civilisation, and he has no problem with this. For him, Jews were part of the Magian civilisation, and he asserts that "in the Magian sense of the nation", "its ideal organic form was the synagogue, the pure consensus", i.e. it was based more on relationships and community than on control of particular territory, so the Jewish people could retain their cultural identity while being in the lands of others. There is more to it than that, but I think you would have to read it for yourself and see what you make of it (Chapter 7, Section 5). At the risk of exciting the wrath of +Rudyard Kipling (see above), Spengler was not a racist in the modern sense -- I cannot detect this in him -- and he does not appear to have any difficulty with the idea of Magian culture/civilisation, in the form of Jewish people, being interdigitated with Western culture/civilisation, i.e. creating a multicultural society. Equally therefore, he might not have any difficulty with Muslims, also representatives of Magian civilisation, being present in the lands of the west while retaining their cultural identity. That is the best I can come up with.
Well said, I like it. Those two perspectives are pretty illuminating! I agree with you that he isn't a racist - his commentary on race is some of the wisest stuff I've read. I just asked because I finished Decline Of The West recently and I find that it has only complicated whatever preconceived notions I had about the issue. Like I understand there is a difference between culture and race, although both are obviously inextricably linked. I just think DOTW is incredibly pressing and relevant in a world where globalism is causing cultures to be depleted at the expense of one another. I know that cultures and societies are relative and always in flux, but surely only to a limited degree? Otherwise, wouldn't the essence/character that distinguishes and characterises cultures from each other be threatened? I just feel that a limited degree of fixed 'boundaries' are needed in order to delineate and distinguish a certain culture/society from another. If these 'boundaries' are removed then surely that just means all the cultures are being blended together into 'one' new culture? Normally, the borders of a country would provide these 'boundaries' but they seem less and less relevant and almost useless in a Europe where mass immigration is causing Western nations to resemble each other in terms of demographics and culture. Multiculturalism just sounds like a total paradox. I agree with you that is might not be truly obtainable as I don't see how genuine cultural diversity can exist if 'multicultural' societies are popping up in all these different countries, each with their own indigenous peoples/cultures. It could explain why ghettoes arise in certain areas - them being the attempt of different peoples/cultures to preserve themselves from assimilation. I know that Spengler see's all cultures relatively, in that they are sui generis. This makes sense theoretically, but surely this is a problematic stance in reality? If a culture holds no absolute truths in regards to their beliefs and values (which is what is happening in the West) then how can they be willing to fight for them? I know Spengler mentions much about war being a fact of life and that pacifism isn't really a great idea in such a world. I find it troubling and hard to reconcile. A individual from a respective culture/civilization must surely want to lean on one side of the fence if they want their culture/civilization to exist (that's assuming they actually like their culture/civilization and aren't insanely liberal). I'm reminded of Houellebecq's Submission; the depiction of a spiritless Europe collapsing in of itself because of this existential vacuum and the population eagerly accepting Islam as more spiritually nourishing than empty materialism. To conclude: I know that the traits that define a culture are themselves changing constantly, but multiculturalism seems to be making them all very similar. Hope I haven't rambled/repeated myself to much!
Multiculturalism = cosmopolitism. It's impossible without _city,_ ergo civilization. Young culture is strong willed, it pushes in their own direction, only when the exhaustion comes, city finds exitation from cosmopolitism. Its spirit just want wander among urban streets and buildings -the new nomad. I known that feeling of "seizure" after read Spengler by first time. Study another high cultures history to note the parallels, read Spengler many times, it deserves.
Spengler's philosophy (like Schopenhauer's and Nietzsche's ) can be described as Ontological monism and epistemological dualism. So, nothing strange there.
What might be called 'absolute interpretation'. It is a trait or flaw that Heidegger discerns concealed in Nietzsche's writings while all the more vulgarly displayed in Spengler's. So called anti-platonic platonism
I've come here after reading question/answers of is the western world on a huge decline? I was born in England, raised in South Africa and moved back to England in my 20's. A plethora of reasons within the feed which was spot on but we can see it in everything. I don't think the Eastern world is just catching up but also on track to over take us. Morally, mentally, economical and physical. Governments to blame but lack of culture and morals from the public here don't help.
I appreciate a lot this analysis and fully agree with it. what's the name of the speaker? and what is his academic profile? I could not find any info in Dark Age Theorist site. please inform. thanks
Cool; yeah you might say Spengler's theory is an important phase in vasikology or phaseology; distinguishing ethnic and geographic aspects of each major culture, if not yet the nature of ideologies, criminality, or a universal mathematics; obviously early 20th century 'western civilization' had both 2 and 3 dimensional aspects ( body worship and nature worship ) but his thesis suggests ironically that the one dimensional absence of worship ( reflexive values ) was rising to primacy under the guise of war ( the 'satanic' and 'industrial' aspects ). And I think this came to pass at the same time the worship of history ( the actual dimension of time, as both body and nature, and 'progress' i.e. 'Nature's Gods' ) became possible. And it is true each culture CAN choose the same path, to the extent it knows both universal mathematics and it's own natural past.
"Tired, self doubting, spent"? There you're showing your colors. The Merovingian civilization had already absorbed and adopted many Roman secular institutions before it inherited the west, an argument for continuity.
Haha, yes. As for continuity, I agree there are strong points to be made about continuity, with historians now referring to this as a time of "transformation". Spengler's point was that the whole of classical civilisation is informed by one world view (corporeality), and the whole of western civilisation is informed by another world view (extension), and there is a distinct rupture between them. Your observation suggests that, to refute Spengler, it would be sufficient to show continuous evolution of the classical world view into the western world view, via a series of stages. It would make an interesting paper.
Dark Age Theorist Well thanks for bringing him to my attention. I was briefly introduced to him in school but currently I've been trying to wade through post-modernism and Spengler may very well be helpful.
I think the point of the Augustus archetype is that in a liberal democracy, fascistic forces will always prevail on a long enough timeline if they are allowed to.
Spengler is extremely interesting but I think one would need to meld his ideas with those of the Traditionalists like Guénon for a more complete picture. Also, Islam does not need reforming.
Islam can not be reformed its a thing you westerners don't understand ... since the fall of the Abbasids after the Mongol invasion the Muslims world has split into many pieces and many many sects some stray afar from the Qur'an and Sunnah (the prophet Teachings) today its being unified .. and everyone is returning to their roots why ? because of what happened for the last 200 years from Colonialism to the Bid'ah that the Ottomans spread (like grave worshiping) hence why MANY Muslims returning to their roots (Salafiyah) as a "reactionary" shock wave if you will will it stop ? i personally think it will not stop until all foreign ideas and values are expelled whether its western or what's left of Socialism / Marxism (like the one in Syria) in fact i'd say its rapidly accelerating for the last 30 or so years
@@someone-wi4xl totally nailed it.Islam cannot reform because in my opinion it has already reformed. The wahabi doctrine is its reformation.Basically what al wahab wanted was an islam brought back to its origins and thats what islam really is, what you see in arabia. i think islam is like the cornered beast.all the world has expected the western model and even if the real west falls there will be other civ that will emerge heavily influenced by it.Islam is like the cornered beast who barks the loudest before the final attack and its destruction.Muslims feel lonely because they indeed are.Their religion allows no compromise with outsiders but globalism and world market is all about that. it is a struggle taht they themsleves have to figure out.I hope that the do not involve us because usuazlly when they have internal struggles they call for external jihad against no believers.Thats how they solve problems
@@const1453 Reformation is a sign of decline according to Spengler. I forgot if he criticises Protestant Reformation, but it seems that Islam has had the Salafism reformation much like Protestantism.
What would Spengler say that "distance," "depth," or "space" is truly? He seems to make the argument that the space-feeling belongs to the western society. It is largely wound up with memory, and the feeling of having "moved" from one perspective-frame to another perspective-frame, which itself is really just a state of the physical body. Perhaps we see a tree, and then we are next to the tree, and then using memory we remember seeing the tree from a distance, and believe we "covered" distance across that initial reference frame. I'm just working stuff out in my head now - I know that Steiner gets into this a little. But I think space (specifically depth) is a mistake arising from over-relying on qualities within perception (size, color, etc) as being within existence, as if we believed pitch and tone in lived experience were actually "within" material vibration.
Look at western mathematics with 3 dimensional plots, also western music makes you imagine something similar, also outer space and often playing classical style music in outer space movies; an infinite dark void with the bright colors. The bright colors represent the extremes, or polarities as goethe calls them, green is the center, google 3d plot you will see the images.
Just see at A-Bomb explosion, look its expansion radius. It's faustic _boundless space,_ it's not static, instead, dynamic. I'm on musical composing, and I find interesting the fact the first clasical composers choose a _chamber_ to play music. When puts reverberation in a sound, you can "feel the space", the sound appears distant, but you only can achieve that effect in closed and large places -and better results if it's dry and hard the material of the structure, that affects the color of the sound. Another thing pretty interesting is that the "spikes" of gothic cathedral are very simillar to sound spectra.
I disagree with the last part. Radical Islamism is a dead end. It only exists in more than a trivial form due to support from western countries and Israel. The Golden Age of Islam only happened because most scholars were allowed to discuss matters among themselves freely and openly (relative to later centuries). That is how you can gauge the relative liberty of a society-by its technological, scientific and intellectual advancements. The Soviet Union, for example, had few true technological advancements on their own. They stole them from the West. Also, science and technology really didn't take off until the advent of Protestantism. So any notion that the Renaissance accomplished very much under Roman Catholicism is incorrect. For Islam to flourish again it, too, must have its own Reformation. Be that as it may, there must have still been some fear among Muslim intellects about going "too far". Their ideas (like the Chinese gunpowder, movable type, and compass) did little for themselves but did much to advance Western technology. Mehmed the Great had to pay a European cannon maker to furnish him the means of battering down the walls of Constantinople. The Turks were incapable of doing that thenselves.
Very interesting and helpful video. Thank you for making it. I am actually working on a research paper about Spengler and the modern Islamic crisis. I was very intrigued by your speculation about ISIS representing a Merovingian period that is preceding a rise of a new era in history. Do you feel that this is bringing a prosperous culture into light or are we looking at a new more materialistic and vicious civilization to inherit the world? @DarkAgeTheorist
I appreciated the explanation and interpretation of Spengler, which helped expand my understanding of the author. Unfortunately the narrator sullies this by describing the burning of the Library of Alexandria by early Christian fanatics because of their revulsion at pagan expression. The problem is that this never happened and is an oft repeated calumny that any real historian would know to be false. The Library was burned as an unintentional consequence of Julius Caesar’s military actions and then later suffered at the hands of Arab invaders, though it is likely not much was left when they arrived. A good deal of anti-Christianity has infected academia in its fervid attempt to quash any sense of western triumphalism, as they usually describe it. This brings exaggeration, misinterpretation, and mendacity with it, and ends, as here, defeating an otherwise potentially decent production. If he’s wrong about something so basic, I wonder what else is inaccurate.
Regarding your comment on Newton's theory of gravitation being timeless: Newton made comments that the force would lagg. If you shake one particle it takes time for the "shake" to reach the other particle. He even postulated that there would be some other particles doing that. For calculations he used it didn't matter. On the other hand it is true that physical law as we know them are timeless, in physics parlance one would say that the system is autonomous. However I find this notion of timeless law dubious, why would evolution apply to living things only? My argument is that of continuity, I am speculating that universe it self changes as time passes. Regarding Spengler's theory of history: From what you have presented I feel like this is another case of an author not willing to let their brainchild die. I would say that he is right to say that cultures are like organs and that they have a lifespan, but I would fundamentally disagree that there is no progression. Evolution it self is not a mystical process - it can go wrong, there is a tendency for progress but no one can guarantee that ( look at stupid ideas of modern philosophy, creatively bankrupt bastardizations of marxism ).
I would say a better translation of the idea behind _untergang_ in this context is "demise," so... this title would be _The Demise of the West_ ... in my humble opinion.
I agree that Demise is far superior to decline. Still, it suffers in my view from a simular everydayness as does Decline. Untergang is more apocalyptic and irretractable than the more customary and reversible or Decline and Demise. Note also that the latter ones are 'active' and 'proceedural' although Untergang is lurking 'passively' and poses a 'final' threat encompassing not only the breakdown but also a prelimenary process of decline Downfall has been proposed as an adequate translation, but is nevertheless too overtly immediate and evokes a lesser sense of gloom
Brilliant though his ideas are, Spengler was unquestionably wrong to emphasize the Faustian nature of the West. In fact, it has historically been ferociously Magian (Judeo-Christian), with only a small number of Logos thinkers promoting Apollonian and Faustian values. This minority gained traction only with the Renaissance and then, especially, the Enlightenment. In Truth, we in the West live in a Magian culture to this day and the Faustian culture has barely begun. There has been no “crisis” of Western Faustianism, but, in fact, of Western Magian Civilization. The “Death of God” , as pronounced by Nietzsche, has occurred. The Magians know it, but are in extreme denial. However, all of their energy has dissipated. They are mere shadows and echoes now, fading away in front of us. To understand how enfeebled Western Magians are, one need only look at Muslim Magians- as fanatical as the Christians of 600 years ago! Islam is of course 600 years younger than Christianity. Humanity must kill off Magian influence everwhere other than in the sphere of entertainment. Humanity must become overtly Apollonian and Faustian in its working mode - with Magian and Dionysian forces reserved for humanity at play when the day’s work is finished. Humanity’s greatest error was to allow stories - fiction and fantasy - to be treated as fact. The Torah, Bible and Koran are pure Mythos. They have no Logos content , hence zero truth content. Humanity can never maker proper progress until it can immediately distinguish between Mythos and Logos, and never let either intrude into the other’s territory. Brilliant though his ideas are, Spengler was unquestionably wrong to emphasize the Faustian nature of the West. In fact, it has historically been ferociously Magian (Judeo-Christian), with only a small number of Logos thinkers promoting Apollonian and Faustian values. This minority gained traction only with the Renaissance and then, especially, the Enlightenment. In Truth, we in the West live in a Magian culture to this day and the Faustian culture has barely begun. There has been no “crisis” of Western Faustianism, but, in fact, of Western Magian Civilization. The “Death of God” , as pronounced by Nietzsche, has occurred. The Magians know it, but are in extreme denial. However, all of their energy has dissipated. They are mere shadows and echoes now, fading away in front of us. To understand how enfeebled Western Magians are, one need only look at Muslim Magians- as fanatical as the Christians of 600 years ago! Islam is of course 600 years younger than Christianity. Humanity must kill off Magian influence everwhere other than in the sphere of entertainment. Humanity must become overtly Apollonian and Faustian in its working mode - with Magian and Dionysian forces reserved for humanity at play when the day’s work is finished. Humanity’s greatest error was to allow stories - fiction and fantasy - to be treated as fact. The Torah, Bible and Koran are pure Mythos. They have no Logos content , hence zero truth content. Humanity can never maker proper progress until it can immediately distinguish between Mythos and Logos, and never let either intrude into the other’s territory. -Mike Hockney
Interesting argument. Though I would agree with@@LegoUniverseUNSC that the West and even Christianity is still largely Faustian in most forms practiced in the West, even if originally Magian. Similar to how the West did not invent gunpowder, but revolutionized its used according to their own vision.
The West has formed itself through the presence of and interplay between various localized tribal and pagan cultures to an equal or almost equal extent as the foundational Judeo-Christian and greco-romanist elements. Faustianism is the rich admixture that consist of these and other substances
It only took 7 years, the US Dollar is not the money of the world already, Silver and Gold is better than papers, please be patient as our decline will come automatically, our peoples will do it to ourselves, you don't have to worry about Oswald he knows.
I read the decline of the west in English and Spengler's view of science is the only thing I strongly disagreed with. I can accept that western culture may incline us to investigate some hypotheses more than others, but since it is empirical, we cannot see something which is not there. I seem to recall that he seemed to think that Darwinism meant that life approached a goal of constant betterment, which shows that he did not actually understand the theory. There is no special time or special organism in evolution either.
In Spengler's defence I must mention what has been noted by people from Darwin's own time and onwards, namely that adherants of the progressive view of history have often entangled themselves in Evolutionnary theory in order to attain a "scientific" edge to their otherwise non-scientific political visions. Back then, progress as zeitgeist perhaps constituted an even more active force than today, which in turn coloured popular interpretations of scienific and technological break-throughs
Upon first reflection, it seems counterintuitive that the cultural output of an egotistical civilization would place such emphasis on context and the ethereal. You would think it would be the ego-driven culture that would produce vain sculptures of humanity.
Maybe it's so egotistical that the earth is not sufficient to contain its ego and it must contemplate vast cosmic distances in order to supply enough space for its ambitions and extreme self-regard.
The ego, the self, the individual, the "monad" represents an interior psychic state of being, sculptures are fosilized and frozen, not extant and lively as is music That artform is glorified in cultures predominantly concerned with practical more than social, pious and intellectual engagement. Man is proud and strengthed not modest or ashamed by his physhical presence. As soon as the will becomes stronger than the body it escapes the bounds of its skin and envisions places not yet visible for the eye and captures voices still not audible to the ear Spengler argues that music appeals more to the western ego than does sculpture, mosaic, architecture, etc.. In my view it is not counterintuitive at all. The ego does not and could not exist in a vacuum, but only in relation to the space around it. Increasing distance between the seperate poles of cartesian dualism, mind and world, it could be argued, is what breeds this longing for infinite space You put a negative connotation to "ego" (selfish rather than self-aware) that isn't necessarily there
Yeah, except we are an extension of civilizations that have come and gone before. I've heard it offered that western culture can be describe as one body, it's right and left leg are Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian, it's torso is the medieval millennia and it's right and left arm are the Renaissance and the Reformation with modernity being the head. Is it random that childhood and adolescence precedes adulthood? This is just more relativism.
Well, Spengler is indeed a supreme relativist, and if you are an absolutist you and he will not see eye to eye. I'm not sure your metaphor about the body or about childhood to adulthood proves anything by itself.
I guess you are referring to Spengler's idea that there is no overall progress just a disconnected set of civilisations all pointlessly repeating the same pattern. I think that can be an interesting model to help us see some things in a new light. Nevertheless, I tend to think that God did not create this vast universe just for humanity to remain cooped up on the tiny planet we now inhabit, and that humanity has a purpose, which is to explore ever further in the physical, intellectual and moral dimensions, thereby discovering the secrets of the cosmos, of our own consciousness, and of the connection between them. So it is not hopeless, though the distances we have to travel are clearly still immense, in the physical, intellectual and moral senses.
What are you talking about? Are you a Muslim fundamentalist threatening me with subjugation? If so, you should realise that, while I consider the Islamification of Europe quite likely, it is going to take at least a generation or two and since I am in my mid-fifties it is not going to affect me personally. Or are you someone who has misunderstood my video and thinks I am somehow advocating for Islamism? If so, you should realise that to analyse a disease does not mean you want to catch it. The point remains that history is all about change, whether you go with Spengler's idea of a regular seasonal cycle or something less regular and more nuanced. Societies and social attitudes evolve as the result of a continually unfolding dynamic interaction between politics, economics and culture. If you view modern Islamism as a timeless expression of the Muslim worldview, you are not going to understand it properly. Unfortunately, people do behave in these fanatical ways, but it is not confined to any particular ideology, and such behaviour today is an expression of this particular moment in world history, not a simple continuation of the past nor a prediction of the future. Look at what is happening in the US, where people are taking down statues that memorialise a part of history they now consider shameful and immoral, just like when the Taliban blew up statues of Buddha. If you think that, in making this comparison, I approve of either, you are very mistaken.
Around 23.00, we are alas treated to the same lame islamo/apologistic slogans that the MMS spreads. Thus, he demonstrates his ignorance about that civilzation and destroys his credibiliy. Too bad.
Yo Inter I am not an apologist for anyone. These are not slogans. They are history. Arithmetic, algebra and algorithm are Arabic words. We use Arabic not Roman numerals. The earliest account we have of Viking culture was written by an Arab explorer. In the Middle Ages, Western scholars pored over the works of people like Averroes and Avicenna. Obviously, Islamic civilisation was not always obscurantist but was inquiring and inventive. And here I am presenting what I imagine Spengler might say. He would say, Islamic civilisation was once inquiring and inventive, but it is now failed and defunct. And if you don't realise that what is coming at you is not Islam as it always was, is and will be, but something much more active, aggressive and dangerous, then it is you who is the ignorant one. You need to wake up. Those who don't understand history are likely to get flattened by it.
Dark Age Theorist :Just like Orthodox Christianity is not what it was originally,and Roman Catholicism is far removed from 1st century levantine Christianity!
Quite interesting. Thank you. Just a side note: Islam is the only one among the Abrahamic religions that can be excavated from the debris of the abuse done to it. In other words, it’s a religion for all seasons and God made sure to preserve the idea of it if not the practice. I have a feeling that Europe’s (Russia?) return to orthodox Christianity would inevitably bring it closer to the Islamic world.
I'm a Muslim myself and really appreciated your thorough explanation of Spengler's work. Thank you for educating your audience.
I'm a Jew and I appreciate it when you people leave. Anti-Semite.
The science-fiction cult classic Warhammer 40,000 seems to follow the pattern of Oswald Spengler’s civilizational theory on the rise, decline and eventual fall of empires to a T, especially regarding The Imperium Of Mankind.
One of the best commentaries on Spengler I've seen. Thank you, your thoughts are very much appreciated.
The presentation is top class, the way you give an interval and eat up sure is unique. The lecture is also very much detailed.
Mind-blown. This video is better than money. Thank you so much.
Do you say protagonist the same way he does
I love it when you are watching something new and then you hear someone’s name and then check him out and that’s how I ended up hear and I already love this video as it’s more knowledgeable than what we have been thought in school. There’s too much out there that we still need to learn and to start thinking out side of the box. Will definitely be a subscriber. Thanks pal
Great Breakdown of Spengler's view ! Neutral and Rational
Thank you for the simplistic breakdown as it reaches those looking for the truth...instead of a platform to listen to one's own ego (voice) cheers
The Snickers break is delightful.
i found this moment very interesting as well :) one cannot understate the importance of a snickercoffeebreak when discussing Spengler.
@@leonvankammen7499 discussing spengler lowers your blood sugar
strange choice for a viral marketing campaign... in b4 "Julius Evola - how to transcend our current age of dissolution and live according to Tradition - brought to you by Pepsi"
Was goethe a Muslim
I love how at the halfway point in the video, you just walk away and into town 🤣🤣🤣🤣
No the snickers bar was the best part!
I have the single-volume, unabridged edition from George Allen & Unwin, 1934, a beautiful book. What a terrible shame that we did not get another decade or two of Oswald Spengler.
Clever use of the mini Gothic arches over your left shoulder!
I watched your video 3 times to ensure I didn't miss anything. I have studied Spengler for many years, and I think it is necessary to become very familiar with Goethe, especially his concepts on Morphology, before you can easily grasp Spengler. Goethe's concepts of Polarization, Intensification, Competition and the Principle of Compensation are all used within Spengler's work.
Thank you. I have read Henri Bortoft's 'The Wholeness of Nature', and I have recently acquired, though not yet read, Steiner's introduction to Goethe, translated by John Barnes. Is there anything else you recommend?
Look into William Blake's Marriage of Heaven and Hell,
The Will To Create: Goethe's Philosophy Of Nature ~ Astrida Orle Tantillo.
If you have questions I will try to help.
Interesting, thank you, and good scary cliffhanger in the end!
Really liked your thoughts on the points brought up. Thank you
Blue is not a very natural colour that is rare in nature, thus the discovery and introduction of blue pigments probably happened last and were relatively expensive compared to black, brown or any of the other colours.
I think that you have more or less got Spengler's ideas, or at least the ones you discussed in the first half of your video. You mentioned the tables where he analogizes different high cultures, and the fact he doesn't give an objective method of how he got them, well what you are mentioning is the very same problem Goethe had when he tried to make the archetypal plant, he gave up and came up with the ideal of each plant itself: it's leaf, the Ur-Phanomenon of each plant, or in this case High Culture. If you look at his predictions for this century, and the last, it is simply to clearly accurate to ignore. Spengler is right, this is the century of Caesarism, we are now in the transition from very last gasps of Nationalism and Party Politics; into the Personality Cults of Caesarism and Mercenary armies of this century. The Western nations are dissolving into a formless mass, collapse in birth rates, the decline of the Mass Media and the rise of Social Media which allow individuals to speak directly to the people and usurp the power of the Rich and their tool the Press.
Certainly in the days of D'Annunzio and his imitators like Mussolini, Hitler and Franco, Spengler seemed to have got it spot on. But then we apparently returned to multi-party democracy and constitutional monarchy, which does not seem to represent caesarism to me. Nor can I identify caesars in the present day. Or have I misunderstood what caesarism is? I cannot remember Spengler ever defining caesarism. What are the characteristics of caesarism? Is it just another word for dictatorship, or is there some subtlety to it? Is the archetype the politics of Julius Caesar or is it that of Augustus and the principate? Who are the foci of these personality cults in the contemporary west, if such there be?
Many people say that JFK beat Nixon because JFK recognized the role and importance of TV in public perception, especially at the presidential debate where Nixon refused to wear makeup.
I think that JFK was the first TV president, and Trump is the first social media president.
The traditional media is losing sway and with that control of the democratic process, Newspapers are actually in their death throes. Politicians can now communicate directly with the people through twitter/youtube/facebook, without the filters of the wealthy and educated elites.
Instead of military Caesars, we have corporate Caesars now that control the whole world and are exploiting it until it dies. The destruction of the ecosystem that sustains human life certainly qualifies as a war against the whole human species, against the future, and against the planet. Caesarism has arrived throughout the world, but this time, it has taken an economic rather than a military form. Anyone who seriously defies corporate power is imprisoned or killed in most countries.
Courtney Meyers Very interesting, what do you think of Steve Jobs? So it seems inevitable that the tendency will then be towards mercenary armies for the corporate powers .
@@cartoonphilosopher2577 nearly 50 thousand private contracter died in Iraq
I remember someone saying, "welcome to America - where everything is illegal and everybody does it anyway." - how apt,... and did not Nietzsche say something about how the criminal views his life fatalistically? In any case, the truth is, we do not have freedom of speech in America - how so? Because Americans are far too paranoid to speak truthfully. And for the few that do, one must speak in a matter of great precision or cleverousness - and this is always grease-addled, very often ritualistically, with alcohol, food, loud noise or innumerable distractions, such as some arbitrary, tangential "media" reference point. Plain speech can only come from a comedian, it would seem. If one is interested in making decent conversation as a way of life, I would advise against moving here - especially considering the revelations of Edward Snowden; after all, every "smart" phone sentried in a residence is a de facto violation of the 3rd Amendment.
Society has gone in a very interesting direction. People are not only paranoid about speaking the truth, there are quite a lot of people that ostracize and publicly ridicule speakers of the truth for their violation of "political correctness." We are not too far away from a future where neighbors report each other to the authorities for thought crime violations. If... as you have already alluded to... our cell phones and computers haven't already done that...
EDIT: Corrected a typo.
Fascinating and lucidly expressed. Thankfully, no background music.
I thought Julius Caesar burned the Library of Alexandria
The germanic tribe the Vandels did. Hence the origin of the word.
It was burned about 4 times
he never, Islamic forces did & destroyed another 6000 stores of books in a bid to eradicate other opinions/history/religions and to control the poor Muslims [various races] who were abused/enslaved and have been brainwashed for the past 1400 years.
You are right. It seems that a lot of people burned it over the centuries and precisely who destroyed what is not completely clear.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria
It's not clear who did it
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing.
You have to admit that he was a great mind.
A new culture? Did you read Untergang? Islam is at the decline stage just a we are but ahead of us by a few centuries.
I could say, did you watch the video? This is exactly what I am talking about. According to Spengler, Islam or, more precisely, the Magian, is a spent civilisation that has exhausted all its potential. It should not be capable of throwing up an aggressive, self-confident, innovative movement like ISIS or Salafism generally. If you take Spenglerian theory literally, ISIS looks more like a pre-cultural 'Merovingian' movement that is taking Islam from the Magian civilisation and doing something very different with it, just as the West took Christianity from the Magian civilisation and did something very different with it.
@@DarkAgeTheorist Modern Islamism feels like just another expression of the western moves toward collectivism with some delay, an magian version of nazism. Only a few years ago there were moving to liberalisation after embracing royalty, again mirroring the Occidental civilisation which dominates them.
@@DarkAgeTheoristISIS was an example of Wahabbism lashing out as it loses power. And Wahabbism itself is a sure sign, according to Spengler, that a Civilization is reaching it's terminal age.
Apologies for not replying until just now- making my way through your excellent videos 👌
Great video, funny halfway point too. Should do more like this
Great video, well spoken and highly informative.
@23:59 blaming the burning of the Library of Alexandria on Christians /facepalm
Also considering that the library was burned down multiple times throughout history.
According to the the monk historian and theologian Tyrannius Rufinus and the historian of the Christian church Salminius Hermias Sozomenus, Theophilus of Alexandria , Patriarch of Alexandria, discovered a hidden pagan temple. He and his followers mockingly displayed the pagan artifacts to the public which offended the pagans enough to provoke an attack on the Christians. The Christian faction counter-attacked, forcing the pagans to retreat to the Serapeum, which at that time may have housed what remained of the Alexandrian Library. In response to this conflict the emperor sent Theophilus a letter ordering that the offending pagans be pardoned, but giving permission to destroy the temple and its pagan contents. According to church historian Socrates Scholasticus or Socrates of Constantinople, the emperor granted permission to destroy the temple in response to heavy solicitation by Theophilus.
@@WhiteWolf126 The Muslims destroyed it its even in the Quran
@@spiritfree5050 it was burned down many times
23:00 Note that the islamic science to which you refer was Persian, not Arab. The mathematics had arrived in Persia FROM what became India.
not Entirely .. it was composed of different Ethnic groups all under the banner of Islam .. many were Arabs such as
- Al-Battani
- Ibn al-Haytham
- Al-Kindi
- Ibn al-Shatir
- Ibn Yunus
- Ibrahim ibn Sinan
- Ibn Bājja (known as Avempace in Europe
)
- Ismail al-Jazari
- Jabir ibn Aflah
and many many more
if you try to change the fact that Arabs contribution made bounce and leaps in mathematics and geography and others
then you going to have a hard time
because you are going against the factual things
In Persia and Andalusia, scholars of any ethnicity could publish only in Arabic and under Arab names, often that of their patrons.
@@traditionalfood367 except the ones i mentioned are all Arabians of an Arab tribe
not saying there were no Persian brilliant people who contributed a lot
but the fact you try to remove the influence of the Arabians shows that you are biased for a reason or another
Classic Saul Alinsky tactic of accusing the other of that which you're doing yourself.
Nomadic tribes and academic scholarship CENTURIES AGO; yeah, right.
@@traditionalfood367 your argument is invalid because
A) not all Arabians are nomads , in fact most of the major tribes are cities dwellers such as Quraysh , Tayy , Himyar , Azd and others (each one branched into many tribes)
B) the Arabians already had civilization in the Peninsula such as Kingdom of Dilmun , Kingdom of Saba , Kingdom of Lihyan , Kingdom of Kindah and Himyar
and many others
C) even for those being Nomad doesn't mean they can't build civilization
not only Arabians of the peninsula , but the Ammorites (whom are Arabs because "Semite" is a western term)
were also Nomads , but came from the desert and conquered Mesopotamia and built Babylonian Empire
and were known for their laws and knowledge that was lights years ahead of others worldwide (except for few like Egypt)
even the Persian tribes that you seem to love a bit too much were Nomads till 900 BCE
and didn't even know farming ! (at least the Arabians had kingdoms and farmed and be partially nomad depends on the tribe)
invaded Elam and others in modern day Iran and later built their own empire
so yeah .. your argument is SUPER invalid
and the names i mentioned above were only FEW of the Arab scientists who did wonderful things that you try your best to look down upon since you are biased
and then the West created the Islamic state in Serbia - seceding Kosovo.
you did it to yourself!
Only religious nations survive.
All human organizations must have a slave/peon/proletariat class. These are the multitude who do most of the leg work. There is not enough money/silver/material wealth to pay them what they're worth, so they are paid in promises.
This is spelled out in Orwell s 1984.
An organization that does not have the pyramid structure will lose against one that does.
@midgetydeath For some reason, your comment reminded me of the southpark episode where the kids go to the future and there is a war between three scientific tribes. ua-cam.com/video/t0fCL82XwwU/v-deo.html
@Irv Hh, yes I've come to a similar conclusion after 39 years observing and participating in society. It's just a law of nature and most likely impossible to avoid, in this dimension, anyway
@Pepe the Great, I'm pretty sure Mr. Miller understands that a cartoon is not reality. He was just commenting on the similarities between the concepts.
@@Pentapus1024 they did it well, people will fight on who was the better atheist even when religion disappeared, we are tribal beings
I liked the video. Oswald resembles Alister Crowley
Great video, very interesting, thanks!
Which town are you in? Lovely place.
Stamford, England
"Neetch"
@ここを見ろ、見ろ聞け。
And Why not?
Great vid. Thanks !
Unfortunately I did not understand as much as you did. I tried to focus on Spenglers ideas regarding consciousness, such as time and depth, as I believe they relate to the experience described as "enlightenment." I did not understand what he meant when he said what time was (something "become rigid"), but I felt deep appreciation for his pointing out that depth-experience was an idea, as well as his ideas regarding human existence being the process of conceptualization confronting the sense world of color, and the deep existential dread that ensues (perhaps I misinterpreted). He certainly understands that life is all "process" by the Godhead, or whatever you would like to call it. I am sorry if I am way off in my understanding. I would appreciate your feedback on the nature cause/time within lived life-experience. Also, how do you feel about Spenglers suspicion that Russia was the "next orange" (considering you are making a different argument).
Western life views life as functional time, dynamically as a process or progress, the western metaphysical symbol is the spectrum with green at the center and the extreme polarities off in opposite directions; as Goethe says all living things are split into opposites, the more extreme the closer to their ideals of black and white, when we combine them they create new green growth and then split again. The Chinese race understands life as balance their symbol for life is Yin/Yang. Metaphysics describes life, Goethe, Blake, Daosim, Heraclitus; but Ethics tries to control life and in that attempt to control it creates its opposite; hence the irony that every ethical ideal achieved in life results in the exact opposite of its intentions.
Brother, since "that every ethical ideal achieved in life results in the exact opposite of its intentions." the most wise thing to do is to don´t have ANY ethical ideal at all?
But how can order and peace be stabilished in society whitout ethical ideals?
May knowledge set us free.
Illuminattus Rex It creates new problems that results in the requirement of new solutions which create new problems, life is not static it is infinite. Eternal Life is constant change the harmony of opposites in a dualistic dance, to combine them is to destroy them.
You are right, that the Chinese culture is not well paralleled by Spengler. What you might not know is, that in the 1st edition from 1918, which was never translated into English, the Chinese culture barely appears. It's only after the 2nd volume was published, that Spengler reworked the 1st volume in 1923, which then was the basis of the translation into English in 1926 and now contained some excursions into the Chinese culture. That's because in the first volume from 1918 the main concern for Spengler was the distinction of antiquity and the Abendland, as you describe correctly (and which was an answer to the prevalent worship towards antiquity in the 19th century scholarship) .
Your closing argument however doesn't fit into the time scale of cultures. The Merowingian time prolonged about 300 years. Contemporary events, which we tend to highly overrate, because of our own short life span are - in most cases - far too small to have something to do with world history.
Thomas Wangenheim Thank you for this information. I didn't know that about Spengler and China. I agree with you that we tend to overestimate the significance of things happening in our own time. Spengler's theory presumably allows for new cultures to be born? Perhaps potential new cultures are being born all the time but most of them fizzle out before reaching the stage of full-fledged cultures/civilisations? I think I was just trying to say that Islamic State doesn't look to me like Spengler's fellahin society, i.e. passive, incapable of concerted action, easily dominated, but if anything seems to fit the "Merovingian" mould...whether it goes on to develop into a Spenglerian culture or gets snuffed out beforehand, I agree is too early to say. While IS is a relatively new phenomenon, perhaps already disappearing, the wider Salafist movement, of which it could be considered a part, is nearly 100 years old.
It's true, that Spengler's concept allowed new cultures to emerge. His example is Russia (a similar overestimation of its sharp economic growth at the time). But the Salafism is not a new phenomenon 100 years ago. On the contrary: It is a movement directed into the past, it is a kind of religious romanticism. So, if anything, it could be seen as an example of the "second religiousness" in Spengler's system, which means that the civilization of a culture rejuvenates or brings back religious forms, that already vanished. But of course that would be far too late to be a part of the Magian culture, that (according to Spengler) is dead since 1000 years.
I thought vaguely that probability too, but actually is not posible for us known the deep path of those peoples, we can no longer able to witness their art, and of couse his decline (lol).
If this fact is, indeed, true, we can conclude that Near/Middle East is more susceptible to give birth High Cultures than whatever place in the world.
The Arabs are in terminal decline, it is a total proletarian, destroyed civilization. It is over for them, their population numbers have exploded due to white Europeans introducing their economic and medical methods, but this will all end one day, and with that whatever false upswing they momentarily have.
CartoonPhilosopher This is the same for Indian and Chinese, and America else.
by America do you mean the Aztecs and Mayans?
America is Rome, Western Europe Greece;
We are living in the first and possibly last global imperium of the world, the Yankee Imperium Mundi, extensive but shallow, strong but weak; great and yet little.
CartoonPhilosopher Yes, I mean exactly the same you said. America = Precolombian civilizations (Mesoamerica, Andes).
I'm not from US, thus US = US, America = American Continent, lol.
@@cartoonphilosopher2577 we are living in neither the first, nor likely the last global imperium of the world, but the only one we'll live to see.
You speak really well
I cannot find a good copy. Amazon gives a photocopied edition which is riddled with typos. Anyone have a good suggestion with regards to where I could purchase a copy?
I used the Kindle edition with a purple-blue cover, edited by David Payne and published by Random Shack. The text is good quality without typos. It is funny that here we are in the 21st century and your question sounds like a medieval scholar asking where he can get a good version of a particular work while complaining that the manuscript he has seen has been badly copied.
I love the "sack of fruit" metaphor.
yeah you and I can still use the metaphor without oranges ;)
12:07 The snickers bar is a hint to the western concept of ego
(Snickers slogan "you're not yourself when you're hungry")
Just had to give tou like when you pulled out a snickers bar. Man of taste I see👌
As a summation of Spengler, this is an astounding collection of near-misses. Look up John David Ebert's videos if you want a real intro to Spengler.
I could go on for as long as this video showing why this summation has problems, seriously, check out Ebert.
For the love of god it is NOT "hard to see" what Spengler sees as the consequence of pseudomorphosis - he gets very specific many times. Regarding what your topic is supposed to be about: "The pantheon is the first mosque."
This guy's (often flawed) plot summary lasts 9/10 of the video. The premise of ISIS being an outgrowth of Kultur is fascinating. Please make a follow up video where you actually discuss this concept.
And you never once mentioned the difference between culture and civilization. These are the two pillars of Spengler's whole argument.
Lol. As if only one interpretation of Spengler is possible.
Would you stand so firmly behind someone interpreting 2+2 as 5? Multiple interpretations are possible and therefore interpretations are not created equal. A rigorous scholar would take the opportunity to re-examine their own material rather than rest on such a postmodernist argument as multiple subjective interpretations.
Excellent video sir!
Is Spengler's philosophy in support of the Christian world view? Though he may speak in the broader perspective? Now another question is what will rise if the west is to decline?
I don't think Spengler is necessarily for or against anything ,he simply describes/analyses history.
I don't think interactions between cultures violate Spengler's theory. The Muslim world is still filled with people who have brains who can see that they haven't been going too well with respect to the west. Their attempt to reform themselves could simply be a reaction to the west rather than something original.
The Muslim world is obscurantist and going back to fundamentalist Islam.
Wasn't it Julius Caesar that burned the library of Alexandria by accident?
Ancient Egyptian tombs are full of starry sky scenes with lots of blue
Good point. Would be worth going back to Spengler to see what he has to say about Egyptian civilisation. Christianity of course owes a lot to Egyptian religion. Jesus was brought up in Egypt for example. Not that that would mean much to Spengler, who seemed to be of the view that Western Christianity had little to do with the original Jesus cult.
@@DarkAgeTheorist "The only ancient culture to develop a word for blue was the Egyptians - and as it happens, they were also the only culture that had a way to produce a blue dye."
www.greecehighdefinition.com/blog/2019/4/7/is-it-true-that-the-ancient-greeks-could-not-see-blue-until-modern-times-?fbclid=IwAR30zc5I0UMj1I-0877jgrRS_lYwxDj98XA9TCBs3MlhAjg4zqaFemQg32Y#.XKo9RSlsadE.facebook
@@DarkAgeTheorist lol Jesus hás nothing tô do with Egypy, wtf
@@marcoswillianl Why do people like you comment when you know nothing? It's better to be quiet than give a statement on something you know nothing about. Jesus was born in Betlehem, but shortly after his birth they fled to Egypt because of King Herods persecutions.
This is an amazing review 🎉
Have you considered commenting on Dario Fernandez-Morera’s The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise? It would be of great interest to get your thoughts on it.
Fascinating. On a related note, what do you think Spengler's opinion would be of multiculturalism? Very curious to know.
Well, I am not sure, but I will make a couple of remarks. On the one hand, it might be said he would consider it a perverse and ultimately unobtainable condition, insofar as he connects a culture/civilisation to a landscape. On the other hand, an example of multiculturalism that was available to him in his day was the presence of Jewish communities within the landscape of Western civilisation, and he has no problem with this. For him, Jews were part of the Magian civilisation, and he asserts that "in the Magian sense of the nation", "its ideal organic form was the synagogue, the pure consensus", i.e. it was based more on relationships and community than on control of particular territory, so the Jewish people could retain their cultural identity while being in the lands of others. There is more to it than that, but I think you would have to read it for yourself and see what you make of it (Chapter 7, Section 5). At the risk of exciting the wrath of +Rudyard Kipling (see above), Spengler was not a racist in the modern sense -- I cannot detect this in him -- and he does not appear to have any difficulty with the idea of Magian culture/civilisation, in the form of Jewish people, being interdigitated with Western culture/civilisation, i.e. creating a multicultural society. Equally therefore, he might not have any difficulty with Muslims, also representatives of Magian civilisation, being present in the lands of the west while retaining their cultural identity. That is the best I can come up with.
Well said, I like it. Those two perspectives are pretty illuminating! I agree with you that he isn't a racist - his commentary on race is some of the wisest stuff I've read. I just asked because I finished Decline Of The West recently and I find that it has only complicated whatever preconceived notions I had about the issue. Like I understand there is a difference between culture and race, although both are obviously inextricably linked. I just think DOTW is incredibly pressing and relevant in a world where globalism is causing cultures to be depleted at the expense of one another.
I know that cultures and societies are relative and always in flux, but surely only to a limited degree? Otherwise, wouldn't the essence/character that distinguishes and characterises cultures from each other be threatened? I just feel that a limited degree of fixed 'boundaries' are needed in order to delineate and distinguish a certain culture/society from another. If these 'boundaries' are removed then surely that just means all the cultures are being blended together into 'one' new culture? Normally, the borders of a country would provide these 'boundaries' but they seem less and less relevant and almost useless in a Europe where mass immigration is causing Western nations to resemble each other in terms of demographics and culture.
Multiculturalism just sounds like a total paradox. I agree with you that is might not be truly obtainable as I don't see how genuine cultural diversity can exist if 'multicultural' societies are popping up in all these different countries, each with their own indigenous peoples/cultures. It could explain why ghettoes arise in certain areas - them being the attempt of different peoples/cultures to preserve themselves from assimilation.
I know that Spengler see's all cultures relatively, in that they are sui generis. This makes sense theoretically, but surely this is a problematic stance in reality? If a culture holds no absolute truths in regards to their beliefs and values (which is what is happening in the West) then how can they be willing to fight for them? I know Spengler mentions much about war being a fact of life and that pacifism isn't really a great idea in such a world. I find it troubling and hard to reconcile. A individual from a respective culture/civilization must surely want to lean on one side of the fence if they want their culture/civilization to exist (that's assuming they actually like their culture/civilization and aren't insanely liberal). I'm reminded of Houellebecq's Submission; the depiction of a spiritless Europe collapsing in of itself because of this existential vacuum and the population eagerly accepting Islam as more spiritually nourishing than empty materialism.
To conclude: I know that the traits that define a culture are themselves changing constantly, but multiculturalism seems to be making them all very similar. Hope I haven't rambled/repeated myself to much!
Multiculturalism = cosmopolitism.
It's impossible without _city,_ ergo civilization. Young culture is strong willed, it pushes in their own direction, only when the exhaustion comes, city finds exitation from cosmopolitism. Its spirit just want wander among urban streets and buildings -the new nomad.
I known that feeling of "seizure" after read Spengler by first time. Study another high cultures history to note the parallels, read Spengler many times, it deserves.
Yes. You really understand him well.
enjoyed this ... thank you
Nice
Spengler's philosophy (like Schopenhauer's and Nietzsche's ) can be described as Ontological monism and epistemological dualism. So, nothing strange there.
Try putting that in a way most people can understand.
Ah. That clears everything up.
So being in one, knowing in two? Single self, dual knowledge. It might be a bit more than that.
What might be called 'absolute interpretation'. It is a trait or flaw that Heidegger discerns concealed in Nietzsche's writings while all the more vulgarly displayed in Spengler's. So called anti-platonic platonism
I've come here after reading question/answers of is the western world on a huge decline?
I was born in England, raised in South Africa and moved back to England in my 20's. A plethora of reasons within the feed which was spot on but we can see it in everything. I don't think the Eastern world is just catching up but also on track to over take us. Morally, mentally, economical and physical. Governments to blame but lack of culture and morals from the public here don't help.
I appreciate a lot this analysis and fully agree with it. what's the name of the speaker? and what is his academic profile? I could not find any info in Dark Age Theorist site. please inform. thanks
You’re not yourself when you’re hungry
Cool; yeah you might say Spengler's theory is an important phase in vasikology or phaseology; distinguishing ethnic and geographic aspects of each major culture, if not yet the nature of ideologies, criminality, or a universal mathematics; obviously early 20th century 'western civilization' had both 2 and 3 dimensional aspects ( body worship and nature worship ) but his thesis suggests ironically that the one dimensional absence of worship ( reflexive values ) was rising to primacy under the guise of war ( the 'satanic' and 'industrial' aspects ). And I think this came to pass at the same time the worship of history ( the actual dimension of time, as both body and nature, and 'progress' i.e. 'Nature's Gods' ) became possible. And it is true each culture CAN choose the same path, to the extent it knows both universal mathematics and it's own natural past.
For Spengler, Islam as the last religious manifestation of the Magian spirit is already fellaheen. Only Russia shall create a new culture.
HAHAHA Russia the frozen mafia state with a 20% Muslim population?
"Tired, self doubting, spent"? There you're showing your colors. The Merovingian civilization had already absorbed and adopted many Roman secular institutions before it inherited the west, an argument for continuity.
Haha, yes. As for continuity, I agree there are strong points to be made about continuity, with historians now referring to this as a time of "transformation". Spengler's point was that the whole of classical civilisation is informed by one world view (corporeality), and the whole of western civilisation is informed by another world view (extension), and there is a distinct rupture between them. Your observation suggests that, to refute Spengler, it would be sufficient to show continuous evolution of the classical world view into the western world view, via a series of stages. It would make an interesting paper.
Dark Age Theorist Well thanks for bringing him to my attention. I was briefly introduced to him in school but currently I've been trying to wade through post-modernism and Spengler may very well be helpful.
I think the point of the Augustus archetype is that in a liberal democracy, fascistic forces will always prevail on a long enough timeline if they are allowed to.
Spengler is extremely interesting but I think one would need to meld his ideas with those of the Traditionalists like Guénon for a more complete picture.
Also, Islam does not need reforming.
Islam can not be reformed
its a thing you westerners don't understand ... since the fall of the Abbasids after the Mongol invasion the Muslims world has split into many pieces and many many sects some stray afar from the Qur'an and Sunnah (the prophet Teachings) today its being unified .. and everyone is returning to their roots
why ?
because of what happened for the last 200 years
from Colonialism to the Bid'ah that the Ottomans spread (like grave worshiping)
hence why MANY Muslims returning to their roots (Salafiyah)
as a "reactionary" shock wave if you will
will it stop ?
i personally think it will not stop until all foreign ideas and values are expelled whether its western or what's left of Socialism / Marxism (like the one in Syria)
in fact i'd say its rapidly accelerating for the last 30 or so years
@@someone-wi4xl totally nailed it.Islam cannot reform because in my opinion it has already reformed.
The wahabi doctrine is its reformation.Basically what al wahab wanted was an islam brought back to its origins and thats what islam really is, what you see in arabia.
i think islam is like the cornered beast.all the world has expected the western model and even if the real west falls there will be other civ that will emerge heavily influenced by it.Islam is like the cornered beast who barks the loudest before the final attack and its destruction.Muslims feel lonely because they indeed are.Their religion allows no compromise with outsiders but globalism and world market is all about that.
it is a struggle taht they themsleves have to figure out.I hope that the do not involve us because usuazlly when they have internal struggles they call for external jihad against no believers.Thats how they solve problems
@@const1453 Reformation is a sign of decline according to Spengler. I forgot if he criticises Protestant Reformation, but it seems that Islam has had the Salafism reformation much like Protestantism.
Islam as all religions can be reformed or changed but not without gradually morphing into a new entity first in the process.
Have you ever had the chance to read Arnold Toynbee's, "a study of history"? What did you think of it?
Where was this filmed? Bath?
Robert Miller Stamford, Lincolnshire. Another Georgian town.
What would Spengler say that "distance," "depth," or "space" is truly? He seems to make the argument that the space-feeling belongs to the western society. It is largely wound up with memory, and the feeling of having "moved" from one perspective-frame to another perspective-frame, which itself is really just a state of the physical body. Perhaps we see a tree, and then we are next to the tree, and then using memory we remember seeing the tree from a distance, and believe we "covered" distance across that initial reference frame. I'm just working stuff out in my head now - I know that Steiner gets into this a little. But I think space (specifically depth) is a mistake arising from over-relying on qualities within perception (size, color, etc) as being within existence, as if we believed pitch and tone in lived experience were actually "within" material vibration.
Look at western mathematics with 3 dimensional plots, also western music makes you imagine something similar, also outer space and often playing classical style music in outer space movies; an infinite dark void with the bright colors. The bright colors represent the extremes, or polarities as goethe calls them, green is the center, google 3d plot you will see the images.
Just see at A-Bomb explosion, look its expansion radius. It's faustic _boundless space,_ it's not static, instead, dynamic.
I'm on musical composing, and I find interesting the fact the first clasical composers choose a _chamber_ to play music. When puts reverberation in a sound, you can "feel the space", the sound appears distant, but you only can achieve that effect in closed and large places -and better results if it's dry and hard the material of the structure, that affects the color of the sound. Another thing pretty interesting is that the "spikes" of gothic cathedral are very simillar to sound spectra.
Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press
"Cultural and societal advances"??
Funny how even after reading Spengler you perpetuate the modern western prejudice.
I disagree with the last part. Radical Islamism is a dead end. It only exists in more than a trivial form due to support from western countries and Israel.
The Golden Age of Islam only happened because most scholars were allowed to discuss matters among themselves freely and openly (relative to later centuries). That is how you can gauge the relative liberty of a society-by its technological, scientific and intellectual advancements. The Soviet Union, for example, had few true technological advancements on their own. They stole them from the West.
Also, science and technology really didn't take off until the advent of Protestantism. So any notion that the Renaissance accomplished very much under Roman Catholicism is incorrect. For Islam to flourish again it, too, must have its own Reformation.
Be that as it may, there must have still been some fear among Muslim intellects about going "too far". Their ideas (like the Chinese gunpowder, movable type, and compass) did little for themselves but did much to advance Western technology. Mehmed the Great had to pay a European cannon maker to furnish him the means of battering down the walls of Constantinople. The Turks were incapable of doing that thenselves.
Very interesting and helpful video. Thank you for making it. I am actually working on a research paper about Spengler and the modern Islamic crisis. I was very intrigued by your speculation about ISIS representing a Merovingian period that is preceding a rise of a new era in history. Do you feel that this is bringing a prosperous culture into light or are we looking at a new more materialistic and vicious civilization to inherit the world? @DarkAgeTheorist
2016 ISIS was at its high . 2018 ISIS is already a vanishing nightmare REACHING ITS EVENT HORIZON
I appreciated the explanation and interpretation of Spengler, which helped expand my understanding of the author. Unfortunately the narrator sullies this by describing the burning of the Library of Alexandria by early Christian fanatics because of their revulsion at pagan expression. The problem is that this never happened and is an oft repeated calumny that any real historian would know to be false.
The Library was burned as an unintentional consequence of Julius Caesar’s military actions and then later suffered at the hands of Arab invaders, though it is likely not much was left when they arrived. A good deal of anti-Christianity has infected academia in its fervid attempt to quash any sense of western triumphalism, as they usually describe it.
This brings exaggeration, misinterpretation, and mendacity with it, and ends, as here, defeating an otherwise potentially decent production. If he’s wrong about something so basic, I wonder what else is inaccurate.
Thanks!
David Goldman said Islamic demographic numbers are also declining (when they take on Western values).
Is Spengler s view of history influenced by Giambattista Vico at all?
Goethe had a copy of Vico's Scienza Nuova
Regarding your comment on Newton's theory of gravitation being timeless:
Newton made comments that the force would lagg. If you shake one particle it takes time for the "shake" to reach the other particle. He even postulated that there would be some other particles doing that. For calculations he used it didn't matter. On the other hand it is true that physical law as we know them are timeless, in physics parlance one would say that the system is autonomous. However I find this notion of timeless law dubious, why would evolution apply to living things only? My argument is that of continuity, I am speculating that universe it self changes as time passes.
Regarding Spengler's theory of history:
From what you have presented I feel like this is another case of an author not willing to let their brainchild die. I would say that he is right to say that cultures are like organs and that they have a lifespan, but I would fundamentally disagree that there is no progression. Evolution it self is not a mystical process - it can go wrong, there is a tendency for progress but no one can guarantee that ( look at stupid ideas of modern philosophy, creatively bankrupt bastardizations of marxism ).
I would say a better translation of the idea behind _untergang_ in this context is "demise," so... this title would be _The Demise of the West_ ... in my humble opinion.
I agree that Demise is far superior to decline. Still, it suffers in my view from a simular everydayness as does Decline.
Untergang is more apocalyptic and irretractable than the more customary and reversible or Decline and Demise. Note also that the latter ones are 'active' and 'proceedural' although Untergang is lurking 'passively' and poses a 'final' threat encompassing not only the breakdown but also a prelimenary process of decline
Downfall has been proposed as an adequate translation, but is nevertheless too overtly immediate and evokes a lesser sense of gloom
does anyone know the "greek tragedy" on screen at 2:49?
Brilliant though his ideas are, Spengler was unquestionably wrong to emphasize the Faustian nature of the West. In fact, it has historically been ferociously Magian (Judeo-Christian), with only a small number of Logos thinkers promoting Apollonian and Faustian values. This minority gained traction only with the Renaissance and then, especially, the Enlightenment. In Truth, we in the West live in a Magian culture to this day and the Faustian culture has barely begun.
There has been no “crisis” of Western Faustianism, but, in fact, of Western Magian Civilization. The “Death of God” , as pronounced by Nietzsche, has occurred. The Magians know it, but are in extreme denial. However, all of their energy has dissipated. They are mere shadows and echoes now, fading away in front of us. To understand how enfeebled Western Magians are, one need only look at Muslim Magians- as fanatical as the Christians of 600 years ago! Islam is of course 600 years younger than Christianity.
Humanity must kill off Magian influence everwhere other than in the sphere of entertainment. Humanity must become overtly Apollonian and Faustian in its working mode - with Magian and Dionysian forces reserved for humanity at play when the day’s work is finished. Humanity’s greatest error was to allow stories - fiction and fantasy - to be treated as fact. The Torah, Bible and Koran are pure Mythos. They have no Logos content , hence zero truth content.
Humanity can never maker proper progress until it can immediately distinguish between Mythos and Logos, and never let either intrude into the other’s territory.
Brilliant though his ideas are, Spengler was unquestionably wrong to emphasize the Faustian nature of the West. In fact, it has historically been ferociously Magian (Judeo-Christian), with only a small number of Logos thinkers promoting Apollonian and Faustian values. This minority gained traction only with the Renaissance and then, especially, the Enlightenment. In Truth, we in the West live in a Magian culture to this day and the Faustian culture has barely begun.
There has been no “crisis” of Western Faustianism, but, in fact, of Western Magian Civilization. The “Death of God” , as pronounced by Nietzsche, has occurred. The Magians know it, but are in extreme denial. However, all of their energy has dissipated. They are mere shadows and echoes now, fading away in front of us. To understand how enfeebled Western Magians are, one need only look at Muslim Magians- as fanatical as the Christians of 600 years ago! Islam is of course 600 years younger than Christianity.
Humanity must kill off Magian influence everwhere other than in the sphere of entertainment. Humanity must become overtly Apollonian and Faustian in its working mode - with Magian and Dionysian forces reserved for humanity at play when the day’s work is finished. Humanity’s greatest error was to allow stories - fiction and fantasy - to be treated as fact. The Torah, Bible and Koran are pure Mythos. They have no Logos content , hence zero truth content.
Humanity can never maker proper progress until it can immediately distinguish between Mythos and Logos, and never let either intrude into the other’s territory.
-Mike Hockney
Christianity is faustian far beyond its original magian form
Interesting argument. Though I would agree with@@LegoUniverseUNSC that the West and even Christianity is still largely Faustian in most forms practiced in the West, even if originally Magian. Similar to how the West did not invent gunpowder, but revolutionized its used according to their own vision.
The West has formed itself through the presence of and interplay between various localized tribal and pagan cultures to an equal or almost equal extent as the foundational Judeo-Christian and greco-romanist elements.
Faustianism is the rich admixture that consist of these and other substances
Who are you sir...what you said about blue in art is true and for me it on the mindblowin' side....
what a cool looking hat, anyone know what that is, doesn't look like a regular Fedora, not like a Montego Bay either..
I make the point I made about the Augustus archetype as a socialist.
Backgrounds with autos is distracting, irritating
It only took 7 years, the US Dollar is not the money of the world already, Silver and Gold is better than papers, please be patient as our decline will come automatically, our peoples will do it to ourselves, you don't have to worry about Oswald he knows.
I read the decline of the west in English and Spengler's view of science is the only thing I strongly disagreed with. I can accept that western culture may incline us to investigate some hypotheses more than others, but since it is empirical, we cannot see something which is not there. I seem to recall that he seemed to think that Darwinism meant that life approached a goal of constant betterment, which shows that he did not actually understand the theory. There is no special time or special organism in evolution either.
Evolution is a retarded theory.
In Spengler's defence I must mention what has been noted by people from Darwin's own time and onwards, namely that adherants of the progressive view of history have often entangled themselves in Evolutionnary theory in order to attain a "scientific" edge to their otherwise non-scientific political visions. Back then, progress as zeitgeist perhaps constituted an even more active force than today, which in turn coloured popular interpretations of scienific and technological break-throughs
Upon first reflection, it seems counterintuitive that the cultural output of an egotistical civilization would place such emphasis on context and the ethereal. You would think it would be the ego-driven culture that would produce vain sculptures of humanity.
Maybe it's so egotistical that the earth is not sufficient to contain its ego and it must contemplate vast cosmic distances in order to supply enough space for its ambitions and extreme self-regard.
@@DarkAgeTheorist an interesting proposition and well put!
The ego, the self, the individual, the "monad" represents an interior psychic state of being, sculptures are fosilized and frozen, not extant and lively as is music
That artform is glorified in cultures predominantly concerned with practical more than social, pious and intellectual engagement.
Man is proud and strengthed not modest or ashamed by his physhical presence. As soon as the will becomes stronger than the body it escapes the bounds of its skin and envisions places not yet visible for the eye and captures voices still not audible to the ear
Spengler argues that music appeals more to the western ego than does sculpture, mosaic, architecture, etc..
In my view it is not counterintuitive at all. The ego does not and could not exist in a vacuum, but only in relation to the space around it. Increasing distance between the seperate poles of cartesian dualism, mind and world, it could be argued, is what breeds this longing for infinite space
You put a negative connotation to "ego" (selfish rather than self-aware) that isn't necessarily there
Yeah, except we are an extension of civilizations that have come and gone before. I've heard it offered that western culture can be describe as one body, it's right and left leg are Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian, it's torso is the medieval millennia and it's right and left arm are the Renaissance and the Reformation with modernity being the head. Is it random that childhood and adolescence precedes adulthood? This is just more relativism.
Well, Spengler is indeed a supreme relativist, and if you are an absolutist you and he will not see eye to eye. I'm not sure your metaphor about the body or about childhood to adulthood proves anything by itself.
Dark Age Theorist I don't know about absolutist but I don't see where Spengler's theory stands up under scrutiny very well
Judging this theory Spengler doesn't believe in freewill or individual choice.
It’s West’s fault.
What city is this ?
Stamford, Lincolnshire, England
Thanks, beautiful city.
Thank you englishman
Workers MUST own and control the means of production. Anything less is slavery.
curious
So.....it’s hopeless
I guess you are referring to Spengler's idea that there is no overall progress just a disconnected set of civilisations all pointlessly repeating the same pattern. I think that can be an interesting model to help us see some things in a new light. Nevertheless, I tend to think that God did not create this vast universe just for humanity to remain cooped up on the tiny planet we now inhabit, and that humanity has a purpose, which is to explore ever further in the physical, intellectual and moral dimensions, thereby discovering the secrets of the cosmos, of our own consciousness, and of the connection between them. So it is not hopeless, though the distances we have to travel are clearly still immense, in the physical, intellectual and moral senses.
Where do you live? Looks heavenly.
Augustus Buchanan The town is Stamford, Lincolnshire. Its architecture is Georgian.
Thank you. It's glorious. I feel as though Lincolnshire is one of the great unsung counties.
@@OUTBOUND184
You don't need to go there. Don't ruin it by being a parasitical tourist.
Good luck, Theorist! Hope you enjoy your subjugation under Islam.
What are you talking about? Are you a Muslim fundamentalist threatening me with subjugation? If so, you should realise that, while I consider the Islamification of Europe quite likely, it is going to take at least a generation or two and since I am in my mid-fifties it is not going to affect me personally. Or are you someone who has misunderstood my video and thinks I am somehow advocating for Islamism? If so, you should realise that to analyse a disease does not mean you want to catch it. The point remains that history is all about change, whether you go with Spengler's idea of a regular seasonal cycle or something less regular and more nuanced. Societies and social attitudes evolve as the result of a continually unfolding dynamic interaction between politics, economics and culture. If you view modern Islamism as a timeless expression of the Muslim worldview, you are not going to understand it properly. Unfortunately, people do behave in these fanatical ways, but it is not confined to any particular ideology, and such behaviour today is an expression of this particular moment in world history, not a simple continuation of the past nor a prediction of the future. Look at what is happening in the US, where people are taking down statues that memorialise a part of history they now consider shameful and immoral, just like when the Taliban blew up statues of Buddha. If you think that, in making this comparison, I approve of either, you are very mistaken.
Goethe Fausto
16:00 fellahin society, magian civilization vs corporeal and infinite " self-centered" civilization
Yes/No.
West is toast
LMFAO what an absolute GOON. a LEAF fell on his JACKET briefly after the 3 MINUTE MARK and he DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE.
HARD SKIP.
in all seriousness, though, I love your videos. Could you please tell me where precisely this was shot?
Around 23.00, we are alas treated to the same lame islamo/apologistic slogans that the MMS spreads. Thus, he demonstrates his ignorance about that civilzation and destroys his credibiliy. Too bad.
Yo Inter I am not an apologist for anyone. These are not slogans. They are history. Arithmetic, algebra and algorithm are Arabic words. We use Arabic not Roman numerals. The earliest account we have of Viking culture was written by an Arab explorer. In the Middle Ages, Western scholars pored over the works of people like Averroes and Avicenna. Obviously, Islamic civilisation was not always obscurantist but was inquiring and inventive. And here I am presenting what I imagine Spengler might say. He would say, Islamic civilisation was once inquiring and inventive, but it is now failed and defunct. And if you don't realise that what is coming at you is not Islam as it always was, is and will be, but something much more active, aggressive and dangerous, then it is you who is the ignorant one. You need to wake up. Those who don't understand history are likely to get flattened by it.
Dark Age Theorist :Just like Orthodox Christianity is not what it was originally,and Roman Catholicism is far removed from 1st century levantine Christianity!
Quite interesting. Thank you. Just a side note: Islam is the only one among the Abrahamic religions that can be excavated from the debris of the abuse done to it. In other words, it’s a religion for all seasons and God made sure to preserve the idea of it if not the practice. I have a feeling that Europe’s (Russia?) return to orthodox Christianity would inevitably bring it closer to the Islamic world.
Don't overestimate fellaheen orientals.