This is the most confident mention I've heard, I think, of Thomas' going to India; India certainly seems to think he did! An interesting listen; thank you!
Constantine simply set himself over Christianity in political terms not theological or spiritual terms. It was the Bishops who would advise and inform Constantine as to what was good doctrine which he would lend support to but that is about it. And he indeed gave support to the judgments of his college of Bishops. This is a great presentation by Dr. Mounce. All Christians serioud about their faith ought to know about these things. And here is a good place to start. Well done!
The letter from Laodicea is commonly recognized as the epistle to the Ephesians, which was likely a circular letter. Jesus also doesn't quote from every OT book, but He does quote from parts of all three of the OT divisions, the TaNaK.
Does taking a bible verse and applying it to the context of the time it was said In history. Negate it being the Inherent word of God? Can we say something is based on the time it was written and may not apply to today. Example: Can we look at laws around woman in the church as leaders in that category?
This is a very big issue for me and I would be grateful for an answer.
You can't say that there aren't sincere Christians and others who have real questions about the canonization of the Bible. Saying they have some kind of sin that drives them to get out of following the bible is judgmental and assumptive.
I think actually that part of Jesus being perfect is that He wouldn't inspire jealousy necessarily. He didn't "Lord it over" his siblings. He was perfectly humble.
Who determines apostolicity, orthodoxy? The books themselves, for that is what internal canonicity is all about? No external authority required? How is that?
@@dooglitas hes asking I think who initially established the canon I assume. If he responds then I'll give the answer about where the traditional canon (pre catholic) originates from. It isnt Yavne (Jamnia). Yavne didn't have a canonization council.
The books themselves do not say they're apostolic, orthodox! Somebody has to determine they are such. So who does it? The individual reader? If so, he/she is the authority! Self-refuting, isn't it. I don't understand.
I assume the Apocrypha was included in the scrolls that Paul had with him as he traveled. He needed the Greek scrolls to teach his Greek-speaking audience. I also assume that he did not use the Apocryphal writings at all. He was raised/trained in the Jewish teachings and the Jews never accepted the Apocrypha as Scripture.
@@TrueM-qc7kd out of the 418 OT quotations in the NT; 340 are found to match more closely to the LXX, 33 quotations are found to match more closely to the MT, and 45 quotations match both the LXX and the MT.
Paul said, the Church is built on the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles. So they share the same authority. We don't have the Old Testament Seer kind of office of the Prophet today, we just have the Old and New Testament general gift of the Prophet today. The gift of preaching with a tilt toward judgement with the Apostles teaching of doing it in love. I often ask modern Prophets "what was it like to be caught up in God's Divine Council?" Just like Jeremiah did with the false Prophets. So far no one answered. I get the impression they don't know what I am talking about because they have never studied the Doctrine of Prophets...
You say, "Paul said, the Church is built on the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles." Yes. Then you say "So they share the same authority." But that's a non sequitur. That doesn't follow. We're to obey the Apostles (1 John 4:6). How many foundations does your house have?
The gospel of Thomas isn't supposed to be taken literally!! Is this guy a professor or what? Thomas was talking about the masculine and feminine principle not about men and women. Go do a research and find out what they are...
If I need an example of circular reasoning in future conversations, Dr. Bounce will provide ample material. At the beginning of the lecture he claims the church didn’t set the canon. Then he contradicts himself with the third characteristic for recognizing canonicity, i.e. the church recognized it! Or how about point number two? Canonicity is recognized by orthodoxy? Well how would the first book get in when it would have no reference to measure it orthodoxy? Such inconsistency from apologists in these issues. So disappointing when what is needed is a clear, sensible answer.
@@tcard7101 You're confusing the idea of the church as a whole recognizing canonicity organically as opposed to a church council or organization setting out an official statement, which is what I think he meant. Obviously, for the idea of canonicity to have any meaning, there has to be recognition of it. He was not contradicting himself.
There is no so-called "Trinity verse." There are many passages that teach the Trinitarian doctrine when taken together. Some verses teach that Jesus is the eternal Creator. There are verses that demonstrate that Jesus had the same authority that God has. There are other verses show Jesus being worshiped as God, others that teach that Jesus will eventually be elevated above all that is in heaven and earth, that His name will be elevated above every name. He calls Himself the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, which are titles afforded to Yahweh in the OT. There are verses that make it clear that Jesus and the Father are distinct persons, not the same person. There are verses that call the Holy Spirit God. There are verses that show the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father and Jesus Christ. All these things, taken together, form the doctrine of the Trinity.
Thank you Bill for being so dead honest. It helps the rest of us keep on trusting in spite of hurting at the same time.
This is the most confident mention I've heard, I think, of Thomas' going to India; India certainly seems to think he did! An interesting listen; thank you!
His comments at the end brought tears to my eyes. Wow.
Constantine simply set himself over Christianity in political terms not theological or spiritual terms. It was the Bishops who would advise and inform Constantine as to what was good doctrine which he would lend support to but that is about it. And he indeed gave support to the judgments of his college of Bishops.
This is a great presentation by
Dr. Mounce. All Christians serioud about their faith ought to know about these things. And here is a good place to start. Well done!
This was priceless. The ending has me in tears.
When were the authors of the gospels determined.
Awesome teaching! Thank you
The letter from Laodicea is commonly recognized as the epistle to the Ephesians, which was likely a circular letter. Jesus also doesn't quote from every OT book, but He does quote from parts of all three of the OT divisions, the TaNaK.
Does taking a bible verse and applying it to the context of the time it was said In history. Negate it being the Inherent word of God?
Can we say something is based on the time it was written and may not apply to today.
Example:
Can we look at laws around woman in the church as leaders in that category?
This is a very big issue for me and I would be grateful for an answer.
Why doesn't anyone elaborate on the education of the theologians or scholars involved with the canon?
Are you talking modern theologians or the patristics?
You can't say that there aren't sincere Christians and others who have real questions about the canonization of the Bible. Saying they have some kind of sin that drives them to get out of following the bible is judgmental and assumptive.
Mary said, "James Judas get over here, why can't you be more like you brother Jesus?" "Jude said, "well were not God ya know..."
I think actually that part of Jesus being perfect is that He wouldn't inspire jealousy necessarily. He didn't "Lord it over" his siblings. He was perfectly humble.
Who determines apostolicity, orthodoxy? The books themselves, for that is what internal canonicity is all about? No external authority required? How is that?
Still curious? I'll answer about the ot if u want
Your question is a little fuzzy. Please clarify. What do you mean by "who determines apostolicity"?
@@dooglitas hes asking I think who initially established the canon I assume. If he responds then I'll give the answer about where the traditional canon (pre catholic) originates from. It isnt Yavne (Jamnia). Yavne didn't have a canonization council.
Big help, thanks!
Dr. bill, may I know which one "church" that you keep on saying?, the church, the church, but which church? thank you so much.
The books themselves do not say they're apostolic, orthodox! Somebody has to determine they are such. So who does it? The individual reader? If so, he/she is the authority! Self-refuting, isn't it. I don't understand.
I don't think you watched the video.
Dooglitas! Do you just assume that anyone who disagrees with your perspective didn’t watch the video? C’mon, dude! 😂
Love Didache! It's consistent with our Lord and Savior's teachings.
Did I hear him right... that Paul would have carried the Greek translation which would have included the Apocryphal books?
I assume the Apocrypha was included in the scrolls that Paul had with him as he traveled. He needed the Greek scrolls to teach his Greek-speaking audience. I also assume that he did not use the Apocryphal writings at all. He was raised/trained in the Jewish teachings and the Jews never accepted the Apocrypha as Scripture.
The Septuagint had apocrypha, not that Paul carried apocrypha. It was the Septuagint that the New Testament writers quoted
Yes
@@TrueM-qc7kd out of the 418 OT quotations in the NT; 340 are found to match more closely to the LXX, 33 quotations are found to match more closely to the MT, and 45 quotations match both the LXX and the MT.
Baptism for the dead?! I've never heard of that, except in Mormonism. If that was part of Catholicism, how come Catholics don't do it today?
42:34 Who farted?
Paul said, the Church is built on the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles. So they share the same authority. We don't have the Old Testament Seer kind of office of the Prophet today, we just have the Old and New Testament general gift of the Prophet today. The gift of preaching with a tilt toward judgement with the Apostles teaching of doing it in love.
I often ask modern Prophets "what was it like to be caught up in God's Divine Council?" Just like Jeremiah did with the false Prophets. So far no one answered. I get the impression they don't know what I am talking about because they have never studied the Doctrine of Prophets...
You say, "Paul said, the Church is built on the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles." Yes. Then you say "So they share the same authority." But that's a non sequitur. That doesn't follow. We're to obey the Apostles (1 John 4:6). How many foundations does your house have?
and that why I don't read the NIV
The crusades were not a mistake. The jihads were.
The gospel of Thomas isn't supposed to be taken literally!! Is this guy a professor or what? Thomas was talking about the masculine and feminine principle not about men and women. Go do a research and find out what they are...
If I need an example of circular reasoning in future conversations, Dr. Bounce will provide ample material. At the beginning of the lecture he claims the church didn’t set the canon. Then he contradicts himself with the third characteristic for recognizing canonicity, i.e. the church recognized it! Or how about point number two? Canonicity is recognized by orthodoxy? Well how would the first book get in when it would have no reference to measure it orthodoxy? Such inconsistency from apologists in these issues. So disappointing when what is needed is a clear, sensible answer.
A and -A is not "circular reasoning". That's just a contradiction.
You misunderstood what he was saying.
That’s fair, but actually I gave examples of both.
Hi doogliras, perhaps you could enlighten me?
@@tcard7101 You're confusing the idea of the church as a whole recognizing canonicity organically as opposed to a church council or organization setting out an official statement, which is what I think he meant. Obviously, for the idea of canonicity to have any meaning, there has to be recognition of it. He was not contradicting himself.
“Dr bill: we dont need that trinity forged verse.. we hav TONS of trinity verses in the bible”
Me: can u give me 1 trinity verse?
There is no so-called "Trinity verse." There are many passages that teach the Trinitarian doctrine when taken together. Some verses teach that Jesus is the eternal Creator. There are verses that demonstrate that Jesus had the same authority that God has. There are other verses show Jesus being worshiped as God, others that teach that Jesus will eventually be elevated above all that is in heaven and earth, that His name will be elevated above every name. He calls Himself the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, which are titles afforded to Yahweh in the OT. There are verses that make it clear that Jesus and the Father are distinct persons, not the same person. There are verses that call the Holy Spirit God. There are verses that show the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father and Jesus Christ. All these things, taken together, form the doctrine of the Trinity.
1 John 5 7, 1 Timothy 3 16 For a Start.
@@MegaTrueTalk
1john5:7 is a forged verse! It was not available in any manuscript before 15th century..
1timothy3:16
Wheres trinity in it!?
@@DammaDry1 Wrong!!! Codex Sinaticus Online!!! Read The Verses b4 and After!!!
@@MegaTrueTalk
Codex sinaiticus is against u.. and it dsnt hav 1 john 5:7.. verse 6 then verse 8.. that means someone added it later.
Extremely biased lecture..
In what way
How do you mean?