How Rage-Quitting Can Help You
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
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Have you ever gotten furious at a game, quit, taken a break, and then came back to the game and felt silly because the boss was somehow super easy this time? Today on Psych of Play, we take a look at why on earth this happens, what extinction bursts are, and why you’ve been “Rage-Quitting” since you were literally in diapers.
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▶Games Shown
Control (2019) - Remedy Entertainment
Ghost of Tsushima (2020) - Sucker Punch Productions
Hollow Knight (2017) - Team Cherry
Dark Souls (2011) - FromSoftware
Dark Souls 3 (2016) - FromSoftware
Dandara (2018) - Long Hat House
Dead Cells (2017) - Motion Twin
Cuphead (2017) - Studio MDHR
Bloodborne (2015) - FromSoftware
Undertale (2015) - Toby Fox
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (2019) - FromSoftware
Dandara (2018) - Long Hat House
Super Mario Odyssey (2017) - Nintendo
Celeste (2018) - Matt Makes Games
Fire Emblem Warriors (2017) Intelligent Systems
Genshin Impact (2020) - miHoYo
Monster Hunter: World (2017) - Capcom
Final Fantasy VII Remake (2020) - Square Enix
Final Fantasy VII (1997) - SquareSoft
Nioh (2017) - Team Ninja
Luigi's Mansion (2001) - NIntendo
Animal Crossing: New Horizons (2020) - Nintendo
Super Meat Boy (2010) - Team Meat, Edmund McMillen
Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy (2017) - Bennett Foddy
Ghost of Tsushima (2020) - Sucker Punch Productions
Control (2019) - Remedy Entertainment
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (2012) - Valve Corporation
Megaman X (1993) - Capcom
Dead Cells (2017) - Motion Twin
Geometry Dash (2013) - RobTop Games
Ninja Gaiden Black (2005) - Team Ninja
Journey (2012) - That Game Company
Pode (2018) - Henchman & Goon
▶Clips/Movies Shown
Friends (1994)
Looney Tunes (1930-69)
Dragonball Z (1989)
Courage the Cowardly Dog (1996)
Bruce Almighty (2003)
Teen Titans (2003)
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2014)
Naruto (2002)
Doctor Strange (2016)
Tom and Jerry (1940)
Inside Out (2015)
The Pursuit of Happiness (2006)
Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987)
Babies (2020) - Netflix
Marriage Story (2019)
Kaguya Sama: Love is War (2019)
Hoodwinked! (2013)
Ed, Edd n Eddy (1999)
Samurai Jack (2001)
Man of Steel (2013)
Other clips and considerations:
• Optimal Arousal
▶Music Sources:
Hyrule Field Morning - Zelda Ocarina of Time OST
Bouldergeist (Fast) - Super Mario Galaxy OST
Apparel Shop - Pokemon Sun/Moon OST
Grumble Volcano - Mario Kart Wii OST
Passionate Duelist Theme - Yu-Gi-Oh! OST
DK Island Swing - Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games OST
Re-Tail - Animal Crossing: New Leaf Music OST
Magma Dragoon Stage Theme - Megaman X4
System Settings - Dj Cutman ( • Dj Cutman ▸ System Set... )
NoSlaps - DJ Grumble ( / gbeats )
Celeste B-Sides - 07 - Kuraine - Summit (No More Running Mix)
Water Wall - Transistor OST
Pokémon BW - Low HP battle theme (Heavy metal version) - MATTIAmmazzo mix ( • Pokémon BW - Low HP ba... )
White Palace - Hollow Knight OST
Mii Maker ~ Editing a Mii (Gamepad) - Wii U System Music
.Uzu - my gamecube broke.. - ( / my-gamecube-broke-so-d... )
▶Research Articles Cited
docs.google.co...
*All images, graphics, and fonts created or found with postermywall.com, Pexels.com, Videvo.net, and Lightworks v14 editing software. All gameplay footage captured with Elgato 60FPS recording device*
#PsychofPlay
Came for game design and psychology, left with good parenting advice.
@BlueDragon 12 the advise of not to reward you children for every small thing, keep it leveled, they do good ok, they do it again good, the third time they deserve a toy, and like that, the same would go with punishment, the worst they do, like making more mistakes, the worse the punishment should be, don't shut down their ps4 for a week because they forget to do their homework one time, that would just make them hate school and just think "i NEED to do homework to play" and they would do it just for that, start with something simple like scolding them, they do it again, shorten their time on the game, and stuff like that, and on the other hand, if they did better and continue to do homework first then play later, and never forget to do it, reward them with one or two hours more on ps4, and like that
@@3bodYking99 That's... not exactly correct, since children are very complicated and the action of reward/punishment interacts with several systems of behaviour. For one, there's the development of internal vs external motivation. Positive reinforcement is generally a lot healthier than negative reinforcement.
Children often take really unexpected conclusions from certain actions. If we use the example given in the video of the toddler with the turtle toy, then sure they learn that crying won't give them the toy back, but they are just as likely to take from it that their emotional needs won't be met when they express distress (which is a complicated way to say that leaving a kid to cry themselves out tends to create fucked up adults).
*TLDR: child psychology is complicated, don't apply to them adult psychology since it will have unexpected results*
@@lilowhitney8614 i know that's more complicated then what i said, but not that much, i was raised that way, and most my family did, i am not saying that everyone is the same, but what i am saying is, positive reinforcement only doesn't work, you need both positive and negative reinforcement is also necessary, not negative punishment, but negative reinforcement, as the example of adding more hours of playing when the child stops ignoring their schoolwork
and not doing so much of either, since always rewarding the small things would give a bad example as if everything they do is perfect and they NEED to always expect a reward for something good, while not trying better, and the same for punishment, if you punish a child harshly on insignificant mistakes you would make them hate you and the thing you're punishing then for, and for the turtle example, instead of ignoring the kid, it's better to encourage them to get it themselves, instead of "my feelings doesn't matter" make "i shouldn't ALWAYS rely on others" and like that
@@3bodYking99 man I'm happy my dumb comment is inspiring so much smart discussion.
A video about how personality affects anything in gaming sounds like an awesome topic. I would love to see a video on that. Or two. Or however many you are willing to make.
That's interesting! I rlly wanna see that :0
Same here. I'd love if he explored personality tests in games like Pokemon Mistery Dungeon or if a person is more common to be an asshole to NPCs or other players based on their real life personalities.
I've accepted it's gotta happen, only a matter of time now... which I'm equally excited for and dreading the research for haha
@@DarylTalksGames just saying, if you actually upload it put a certain disclaimer since you say your kinda new and people is pretty complicated.
Me too!!!
“I wake up with a smile”
That doesn’t happen often
And if it does, it's usually a bad omen.
Everyday of my life that I woke up with a smile bad things happened.
@@pepi7404 never forget to never have high expectations for any day
This was uploaded as I was fighting Nightmare King Grimm. Pretty fitting
It took me so long to beat him. Eventually I even beat Radiant NKG. Just keep going!
I’d suggest switching out charms every 10-15 attempts. Trying different strategies couldn’t hurt.
Let us know when you beat him!
I feel you😔😔😔
Splatoon 2 secret boss and original pokemon blue rescue team harder dungeons. :')
I tried for hours to beat him, gave up, went to bed, and beat him on my first try the next time, kind of like it says here. You can do it!
*My Experience:*
It happens in Rhythm Games most of the time when I want to "perfect" a song.
Instead of repeating the same song over and over in order to hit all the notes at perfect times like I used to, I instead, pick a different song everytime I fail to do so.
My mind seems to function better in rhythm games when I don't fully know/remember the notes that will pop up in the screen. Thus, relying solely on my reflexes, like a fresh start every time I pick a different song.
This comment just reminded me that I need to get back into Piano Tiles 2 because I used to love that game and I was pretty good.
Can you please recommend me some other rhythm games? I'd like to get more into the genre.
@@olivegs5367 Cytus and deemo, both for android and iOS! Great rhythm games
same. i also seem to be better somehow at rhythm games when I'm slightly unfocused. lol.
@@olivegs5367 Cytus is a good start
in communities like osu, this is referred to as “mindblock”. in my experience, i end up hyperfocusing on that one part of the song that keeps stuffing me over, that i end up shitmissing the easy parts.
being given exactly the same information (replaying the same song) over and over again just ends up confusing your brain. retry spamming never ends up working out because of this, and if anything, makes you worse at that particular song/map
Thank you for refraining from using the word "arousal" in this context
"I hope you do the thing where you smile and blow a little through your nose."
My Nose: I am going to do what is called a pro gamer move.
Snot Rocket: Imma boutta ruin this man's whole career
@@a2pabmb2 man why you gotta do me like that
Lmto I do that
I spent 5 hours on the chapter 5 c side on celeste. I got all the way to the end-
and missed the golden heart. And then fell into the spikes. So after I rage quit, and after another 2 hours, i beat it first try. And then missed the heart and fell into the spikes again. I never came back to that level for 2 months.
Oh
I had a similar experience with the Radiance from Hollow Knight. After 10+ tries, I did her first phase hitless, took quite a lot of hits in her second phase, but got it over quickly with Abyss Shriek Spam, was left with 1 hp, and then died to her super easy final phase. I didn’t even get hit by the lasers, I just missed a jump and fell into the Void Tendrils below
Man, I don't have any patience for Celeste, I'm on Farwell since some time ago and I can barely consider finishing it (I'm on half the level and hadn't touch since a long time ago), I don't even want to try any golden strawberry or even the c sides. You have my respects.
@@juanrodriguez9971 When Farewell was released, I had just finished the B-sides and 1 C-side.
I knew that it was going to be hard, because they said that on release, but I decided to do it anyways before the other C-sides.
It took me 16.5 hours and a total of 6000 deaths (summit B-side was only 6h and 2000 deaths for me)
If you think it's worth it, do it.
If you don't want to, that's fine as well, it's designed to be brutally difficult and long.
....did you try it again
As someone with relatively high levels of anxiety, this makes a lot of sense to me, because certain types of stress push me directly into tantrum-throwing mode, while other types of stress are actually kind of enjoyable, and it seems to relate to the nature of the challenge being thrown at me. A Soulslike boss will invariably make me rage, but bullet hell puts me in a zen-like trance. (even though I suck at bullet hell... a lot... but it never gets me down for very long)
Last vid: “this anime soundtrack makes me tear up”
This vid: “maybe it wasn’t my fault dad left”
Character development
*"When Rage Quitting Helps"*
*Vegeta:* Rage and Quitting should not go together. Bulma told me the same with Losing Weight. Why would I lose against Weight?!
🅱️ruh
This sounds like straight out of DBZ abridged haha.
@@B0redZer0 Anyone who's seen the series is born in the right generation hahahah
Don't worry Daryl, everyone ragequits over Primal Aspids.
_stupid homing venom_
I know you're meme-ing but that actually makes me feel a lil better lmao
I've never rage quit a game
But primal aspids make me immensely sad.
I fear no man
But that thing....
*PRIMAL ASPIDS*
...it scares me.
@@DarylTalksGames Same
oh wow viral
i know you since when i was active in the levelhead discord and seeing you here kinda excites me for some reason
13:18 "Now you remember that one time you fist -bumped your crushes high-five"
that hit too close to home
I remember how shocked I was when I beat cuphead cause I never was good at hard games, but I think the reason I did is because of the great soundtrack. I was always willing to start again just to hear that great theme again and I never got overstimulated
This happened to me too. The Animation and concepts and music made me want to die again to watch it all over again
I can't help but imagine
how dark the video title would be
if it is applied in real life, *TierZoo* style
I had never played any kind of roguelike game prior to Hades and I was honestly very concerned going in that the entire "you die, you start over from scratch" premise of the gameplay loop would make it way too stressful to be enjoyable, but what really surprised me was how soothing and rewarding they ended up making the entire death loop, so it always felt like you had not only learned more and gotten stronger but you also always felt rejuvenated and well-rested going into your next run.
Back-to-back attempts at fighting Theseus and Asterius for the first time where you just instantly respawn into their arena to Theseus's taunting and them just continuing to gang up on you and overpower you would have honestly been infuriating. Having to fight my way back to them each time, reflecting on new strategies and working on my new build along the way, I think that helped me enter each attempt with a lot more clarity and peace of mind. Get too worked up and it's much harder to maneuver through the elements of the fight that require precision, like dodging Theseus's spear at the right moment, or steering Asterius's bull rush into one of the pillars.
And getting that down is good practice using a lot of the same principles you need for the fight with Hades himself.
You have such an amazing knack for finding out the small repeated behaviors in video game players at a very high structural level, that hasn’t been talked about too much before. It always fascinates me when you make videos like this. Right now I’m working on a project to teach non-gamers how to play video games, and all these ideas on how to balance engagement, frustration, and motivation should be especially helpful in this task, so thank you.
Also, I appreciate the increased amount of JoJo clips within this video. It’s silly but with there being a JoJo reference to everything does that help you find clips to reinforce your points lol. Anyway, great video as always Daryl!
That's why programmers should take a break then they are feeling frustrated. A lesson I keep forgetting...
Yup. I can tell the rest of the chapters of Deltarune are gonna be great already...
same i was watching this and suddenly understood why i got so unbelievably angry when my code i spent hours on didnt work
Why won't it print hello world? >:(
So this video has left a lasting impression for me. I think about it almost daily and tend to notice small extinction bursts all around me. I was in my last few days working at my local airport, training my replacement when I first watched this video and was able to implement the use of extinction bursts in helping my coworker get past some roadblocks. For context, I worked the night shift and only had to fuel several aircraft, one of which was a Boeing 737-400 cargo plane. For that plane, the attachment point for the fuel hose is located on the underside of the right wing and requires the fueler to be up on a ladder. Attaching the fuel hose while precariously perched can be a daunting task, and my coworker struggled severely with finding the right angle to properly hook up. He became flustered and angry, eventually giving up completely. I told him to step back and let me do it, then he would try again the next evening. Lo and behold, the following night he was able to hook up with only a minor struggle. I went into that first night fully knowing that he most likely wouldn't be able to accomplish the task, but that he'd stew on it overnight and come back the next day and pull it off. Thank you for the quality content and know that it absolutely has real-world applications!
I remember playing Baba is you for like an hour stuck on this one puzzle, and never finished, and later when I was off to bed and thinking my thoughts, I literally imagined the puzzle in my head and solved it right then and there. I immediately got up and played it again and I was like “damn”
Not even a gamer. Found you on accident and you're now one of my favorite channels. Keep it up
Having a growing, learned awareness of how this entire phenomenon happens in your particular case also really helps with the _really_ bad side of anger and frustration (namely, the breaking of controllers, and the hurting of yourself/ people around you). When the exhaustion starts kicking in and your effectiveness starts dropping, you can recognize that and take a _deliberate_ break instead of punching a hole in a wall (figuratively or literally!)
my stress level with games goes too high very easily, and it usually makes me stop playing for extended periods. i have a lot of anxiety, so that checks out! i have experienced the rage-quit and then success before, but it's not very often. my dexterity is pretty bad too, so some of the games i've given up probably just weren't accessible enough for me to enjoy, or my level of patience is not in sync with the amount of patience i'd need to succeed in the game since it'll take me longer than the average person. now i just seek out games that aren't as fast-paced or have easy modes, and i have a great time with them~
Resting and especially sleeping is where the true learning takes place. Taking breaks makes you learn faster. It is like with learning anything else, when you try to force the entire book into your brain in one sitting that has diminishing returns.
The way I see the idea of taking a break after raging for a bit, you already have a little bit of experience with how the boss fights or how the level is structured and, after a break to calm your mind and go over what you remember from the play session, you’re able to look at the level or boss fight with a clearer head, allowing you to properly adapt to what you’ve previously seen. That’s just the way I see and, in my opinion, it seems like a good addition to what you presented in the video.
My sister is very much a rage quitter, whereas I don’t really rage quit so much as think to myself, “I’m not really getting anywhere with this. I should probably come back to it later.”
By suggesting a video on how personality interacts with games, you've primed the comments section to only talk about how much they want a video on how personality interacts with games.
I still want that video though :P
(PS: your stuff is awesome and i hope you do eventually go full time)
Damn, your talk on defeat in the beginning with the dbz clip kinda hit bro.
2:11
It made me think about all the trial and error vegeta has gone through in realizing his ambition in attempts of doing it all alone.
And Im not even a huge dbz, vegeta fan either but this struct something in me, truly.
Me, vibing:
Daryl: uploads video
Me: IT'S GO TIME. ITS HIM, STOP EVERYTHING
Amazing video again Daryl! I also have wondered why this type of things happens and I'm super glad I now know. Also I feel like when you take a break or go to sleep your brain is processing all things you just think and possibly thinking of ways to improve your ability to beat for example a boss, without you noticing.
Dude I could do a whole series on the research done on sleep. It consolidates our memories, both procedural and declarative memory, and sooooo much more. Glad you enjoyed it man!
This guy is magic
21 hours ago even tho it just got published
@@booisomeone834 patrons get early access to videos :)
*cough* www.patreon.com/daryltalksgames *cough*
Hey there, your comments towards the end are actually how I approach difficult game challenges! It's rarely a ragequit from me, I always try to look at each little bit of progress as a victory and it actually works really well. People tell me I'm one of the people with "veins of ice" like you mentioned before, but it's really just processing it differently than "victory = win" and "no victory = lose". I'm succeeding every time I get better.
Always try to tell friends this but they don't seem to have an easy time tweaking their mental state like that or just outright deny that it's the case.
I can only manage to do that with troll rage games, like Cat Mario
I think the message "Winners never quit" really hurt us. Taking a break feels like quitting and that means we'll never be winners, which piles on the anxiety. At least that's what I've found for me at the back of my mind when I'm like, I know I need to just step away, but...
How personality affects gaming is a *very* interesting topic, I would love to see it
Surprised to learn this is a documented thing. I always called it "simmering" because I thought it was just giving my mind and muscle reflexes time away to fully process and ingrain the patterns and methods I needed to win, like simmering food slowly to cook it. I had no idea it was a stress-related thing as well, since I don't full on rage quit as much as understand "This is as far as I'm gonna get in the state I'm in" before I get too frustrated. Great video!
This is a great topic, and a pretty accurate explanation for how stress impacts gaming. Stress overload can screw things up fast, especially when you're dealing with unknown factors, like "Will this boss have another phase?" or "I don't even know where the game will put me if I lose this." I feel like it's helpful to game design to observe how stress affects gameplay.
I feel like I've also noticed that some games have features designed to produce a lot of stress, even if the content itself isn't that hard, and likewise, some players NEED to experience higher stress to feel challenged. A single boss can be extremely tough, but still not add a lot of stress, while a gauntlet of easy challenges can add a lot of stress if it's long enough. They're often seen as the same exact thing, but get very different responses from different people.
The problem is taking a break is humiliating. It's admitting defeat. And that amps up the stress even more. Can't sleep, can't think about anything else. Gotta come back to it.
Its really cool to hear the science behind this, it happened to me when playing video games, but it also happens a lot when I'm learning a new piece on piano. I'll be struggling a ton with a complex rhythm or difficult fingering so I'll rage quit. Then I'll come back to it a day later and I can play it correctly the first time!
Huh! Hearing you say that actually reminds me that I DO use this tactic when I crochet! I hadn't even realized.
3:06 "Maybe for some folks it may take more than 2 tries." I died 4203 times in Celeste (actual stat).
I died on Farewell more times than I had with the entire rest of the game. I was definitely in that "tantrum" state, haha.
For me that rage quit moment can cause me to walk away from a game. I start analyzing how far and how much enjoyment I have gotten out of the game. I walked away from Control when I spent an hour on the first boss and could not make progress, Typhoon. Control made me angry and it had yet to do enough prove it self yet. So I walked away, I tried it again a few months later got stuck at the same point and gave up much quicker that time.
There are games where I have gone back and triumphed, but I have to be invested in them and having a good time.
I do something kinda similar, except I ragequit, forget the game exists, then when I do remember I think "why bother going back it wasn't fun"
My rage quit moment was the fight with the Watcher Knights in Hollow Knight. I would get into a nice rhythm and then get overwhelmed towards the end on the fight. One time I got to the final knight and my brain kinda switched off and died to it. Took a week off the game afterwards and when I did come back, It felt really easy
"You've been struggling to beat one of these three bosses for an hour and a half" lmao bro it took me almost three 1/2-ish years to beat Orphan of Kos. I didnt go into the dlc until ng+ and he fucking wiped the floor with me literally hundreds upon hundreds of times before I finally decided to do another playthrough last year and learned to parry his ass. The dopamine I got when I finished him off with a visceral was akin to what I imagine heroin is like.
I'm one of those plow on though type of people. I've felt before the dip in the quality of my gameplay but over time it comes back with a vengeance. I just usually focus on what I did right and try my best to replicate or learn from it. I feel rage at every death but I guess it just drives me to learn it more so I can overcome it once and for all
What about people who never rage even if they die 30 times to a boss? I just smile menacingly if I die lol.
psycho smile is the optimal reaction to dying, can confirm
Damn dude, such badass!
I guess I'm in that profile, when I lose I have only 2 possible reactions "Ok, I did it wrong there, let's do it again" and "What the heck did just happen???" If the boss is completely fair and I can notice it then I won't complain, just accept my errors, if thw game throws some kind of weird hitbox or just random bullshit I can just ask myelf what happens and how do I avoid it the next time.
@@juanrodriguez9971 honestly props to u for managing to stay calm and not throw a cursing fit that would make a sailor proud
@@juanrodriguez9971 Same for me, the Souls series, Touhou and beating the Hollow Knight bosses in radiant have taught me a lot about learning from my mistakes and nor rage quitting.
Except for radiant Absolute Radiance, FUCK that boss and her bullshit rng
I remember getting stuck on the last level of Super Mario Galaxy 2, actually getting mad and having to stop for the day, I looked at a few tips and tricks and the next day, I crushed that level. I was always fascinated by this concept. A great place to consistently see it in action is when Rubber Ross plays his own Mario Maker levels when creating them. He plays and fails over and over again, you see him get slightly frustrated but he knows to take a break for a while and come back because that makes him improve immensly. Also a great watch in general.
The individual zones of optimal functioning seem a lot like the "flow" theory, where there's a goldilocks degree of difficulty on a task that's most enjoyable.
I see this in gaming and in music practice. I'll have hours of practice sessions where nothing goes right, and it feels like I got nothing done. Put the instrument down, go to sleep, wake up, and the next practice session, its weirdly much better. All of that obsessing over detail actually paid off, even if it didn't feel like it.
This explains why I can do my works better when I "sleep it off", almost get fresh ideas the next morning!
7:30 just seeing this screen gave me some sever flashbacks...
I would love to see an episode on how personality affects gameplay! Also great video.
I rarely experience this rage quitting sensation when it comes to games. but I did feel a uncontrollable rage when I shifted my drawing program to another and had to relearn it from scratch.
I went from practicing, cursing a storm out of frustrations, left the program for an hour and when I had calmed down, threw myself at it again.
it took me a week to learn the whole drawing program's functions
This was my experience with nightmare king Grimm in hallow knight. I was trying to beat him for so long and then after an hour of trying on day number 6. I just stopped. But then the next day I had this urge this feeling that I had to fight him, and I did and it was like a dance he only hit me once or twice and then I beat him on my second try and it felt so good
and nosk is really easy just stand next to the platform's edge in the middle of the arena and he is really easy and you just have to dodge a few attacks
BRUH ME TOO. I had so much problems with NKG, so many freaking deaths, and then the next day I beat him in like three tries :DDD. Same with the Radiance
my strat is to practice a million times with Lifeblood. once you think you’re ready do it with powerful charms.
I rage quit ff13 because of the 1st barthandeuls boss which I quit for 1 year. Rage quit the second time on the 2nd barthandeuls boss for 2 years and after a few days of grinding the hell out of ff13, I was the only one in my family able to finish ff13. Rage quiting is absolutely amazing
I remember my first time fighting sans, I lost like twenty or thirty times in a row.
I rage quitted, yet still being eager to know what happens next, I went to youtube to find spoilers.
Then I reset the world and deleted the game. I never touched Genocide ever since.
Same. After he "spares you" I wanted to reset, and it took many tries. I could've reset anytime, but I really wanted to beat his ass. After I did, I reset and nothing ever happened in this save file.
12:55
Oh Alma. You PTSD inducing biatch. I'm so glad you were included in this.
She still holds the title of one of the hardest bosses in gaming; and her second phase is an absolute nightmare.
4:13 Look, mom, I'm on TV! :D
Jokes aside, good video, my friend :)
That feeling of success is the sole reason I play games like Beat Saber and Guitar Hero. Sometimes I feel like I strenghen my muscle memory when I get an ohrwurm at work and I zone out mentally, playing the game inside my head.
Intro: psych of Nord VPN.
Ngl, that's probably one of the top 10 sponsorships I have seen
ngl I actually had a ton of fun making it haha
I've played quite a few games, where individual boss fights took me 20+ hours to beat. Even though I'm not someone to rage, it still holds very much true: Take a (extended) break, come back later, and suddenly the attempts are significantly better
Learning how personality affects what type of gamer (or even if you enjoy the types of games) you are would be siiiiick
My best friend has been playing Bloodborne over discord for me to watch because it is one of his favorite games, and I have never played. We got to the orphan, and he was like “this is commonly thought of as the hardest boss in the game, we probably don’t get this today.” And then he got it on the second try with very little struggle. I think he only died on the first try because he was trying to let me see all the phases. I heard him set down his controller. And he said quietly: “That is the first time I have ever beaten this boss. I have spent 8 hour game sessions with overtuned characters, but never got it before. Another friend and I tried for days. I don’t know what just happened. I didn’t think I was going to get it, I figured we would move on after I got frustrated or you got bored.” It was truly a thing to witness for his reaction to himself. Big proud of him.
There's also a concept in stress regarding distress ("bad stress") or eustress ("good stress"). Eustress gives you that push or motivation to perform at a task (the stimulation you were talking about) while distress causes anxiety, makes you perform worse in video games, and ultimately makes you ragequit. It's also a useful question to ask while playing challenging games, "do I feel more eustress than distress right now?" or "what kind of stress am I feeling?"
Interesting.
I think I'm more of the "icy veins" you mentioned, it's very hard for me to "rage quit". Although, sometimes I do just quit and take a break.
I am very into Celeste, and I have over 400 hours on Steam, I'm now playing the Spring Collab mod, on the final 3 levels of Grandmaster difficulty, and I also got all of the vanilla Golden Berries.
For some reason, most of these times I didn't feel this burst of rage. One other game that I play is osu!, and I don't think I am as good at this game. Osu is when I feel I am less in control, and cannot translate my thoughts into movement as well. In this game I quit much more often, but I don't come back to the same songs with same frequency; but I've noticed just now that when I do come back, it really is much easier. But often when I take very long breaks even, like when I'm not playing for weeks or months.
And similarly, sure enough, you're right about the jobs stress level; I used to be one of the top performers in my job when I was afraid of my low performance. But, I'm thinking that, after getting positive feedback, that might be a bad thing for me? When I got positive feedback, I stopped caring as much, and suddenly I was one of the worst performers. Then, I got negative feedback, and I was back at the top again. My supervisor even joked that I was one of the few agents that could suddenly "flip a switch whenever I felt like it", but it's just very hard to "feel like it" to me. I wonder if this has to do with my mental disorders.
I wonder how to accurately make yourself on the correct level of stress for each task. At the same time I do want to perform well, I don't want to receive negative feedback despite doing my best; but apparently, that is the best to be done sometimes.
Not only that, there's proof that when we go to sleep, we practice the difficult task in our brains over and over and look for solutions.
I can't be the only one that goes to sleep and analyzes all the moves I did wrong and how I could've done better on a boss or a multi-player match, lots of times giving me some insomnia lol.
Great video!! Keep up the good content.
it's like you turned your skills off and on again
Honestly, this is incredibly true, as someone who has done very difficult achievements in gaming such as completing the Dark Souls games, Sekiro, Elden Ring, Mein Leben on Wolfenstein 2, the Halo MCC Laso challenges, Cuphead, taking a break instead of screaming at the screen, is basically required, and the amount of times I've spent hours on the same thing, came back, only to two-shot it is astounding...
would love to see something on personality types and gaming !
Ohhh this is so accurate in my competitive experience in lol and brawlhalla. Where 1. Taking a break after a bad game helps and 2. Exercising a bit of controlled disregard for the outcome of the game to help lower stress levels really help. Now I know why!
"Your nose won't stop itching."
Wait that's not just a me thing?
During my second fight with Hornet (from Hallow Knight) I got my ass HANDED to be by her no matter how many times I tried. She way faster than her first fight and i was still using the tactics I used the first time I beat her.
But when I took a break and came back, I beat her first try with a lot of health to spare (only to find out that I only got an unnecessary item that unlocked a certain area of the game that was almost impossible to get through... only to also then find out that getting through the new area only brought me to a 9 second cutscene that cryptically HINTED at lore I never cared much for in the first place)
A while back I remember spending hours trying to kill nameless king, every other boss in ds3 had been fine for me but for some reason nameless king would just beat me down for hours a day.
then one run I got him down to literally 2 hits of health left and I rage quit for the day.
came back the next and beat him flawlessly first try lmao.
I have this happen when I'm learning something new on piano. I struggle at first, then after a day of not practicing, it becomes so easy. It just clicks.
A late night thought soup before sleep, make me think about things, thanks Daryl.
I had this experience a ton playing through disc room. Once I finally learned to accept that I was going to inevitably lose, my nerves relaxed and I was able to plow right through anything I was struggling with.
Me beating the last few levels of halo 3 on Legendary:
"WAIT MY BRAIN IS WORKING!"
I can at least explain that the reason sleep works for some people is simply because the brain itself is a simulation machine. If you're spending hours feeding it specific patterns from an external simulation, you're training it to focus a portion of your "dreams" onto that. What we define as "having a dream" is just when our focus settles into one of countless internal simulations that are constantly going on in there as we sleep. Some of us can sort of track that focus as we're falling asleep, which is what is happening if you've ever had vague visions of the game you've been invested in as you're starting to drift off. If you happen to have aphantasia, this can also be a useful tool in slowly training your brain to understand the basics of visualization that come standard in most other people's brains.
I can say from my own experience that if you really pay attention you can overcome the tendency to get frustrated while playing a game. You can't actually reverse it or eliminate it or whatever, but you can build on it in a way where, when it's triggered, before you even consciously register the feeling, something else is triggered that helps you settle down and focus. Since I taught my brain this behavior, the only time I ever consciously felt that frustration in almost two decades was when I just recently went back to the last game that triggered it, the same game that helped me get past it. So, I'm going to try to go back to that game frequently and see what happens.
The exact same thing happened to me with Nightmare King Grimm. Fought him for like over an hour, took a break, came back a bit later, beat him on the second try.
Here's my philosophy; The phrase 'it's just a game' is a double edged sword.
When you as a player feel more than confident to take on a task, only for someone else to actively break the suspension of disbelief upon failure, not only makes you feel like you've accomplished less than you have, but also causes what i like to call "immersion whiplash", where you get so immersed into something only for reality to basically force you to not be, without warning.
But on the other hand, if you as a player know that you cannot handle a task, the phrase can underplay the previous severity of a loss, and also loosens the tension of said failures.
1:03 We were on the verge of greatness. We were this close.
Sorry, bad reddit habits.
This was an absolute pleasure to watch. Thanks a ton.
My greatest example of this was as a kid I couldn't take down Ruby or Emerald Weapon in FF7. Gave up. Maybe 2 or 3 years later, I loaded up the file and crushed them with no effort wondering why they were ever a problem... Oh well!
10:47 The Parasympathetic Nervous System and the Sympathetic Nervous System came to mind when I saw this part. It seems like the more active you are in whatever activity you are playing at the moment, the more unlikely you will rage quit from said activity. This makes sense because when your Sympathetic Nervous System turns on, that is "fight or flight" kicking on. So in summary, if you are struggling with a boss, go do something physical to calm down.
I have mastered the art of no-rage. Over the years I have learned that anger puts a limiter on my gamer powers, and the same goes for excitement at a near victory. thus, after every death if I feel myself getting too involved, whether it be happiness or anger, I take a deep breath and allow the emotions to fade away and become an emotionless gaming master. This helped a lot in Dark Souls 3 and Hollow Knight
I love the scenarios this guys makes, it really personalizes the situation.
For me, it's a balance of trying to find that thin line between a good level of perseverance and just throwing yourself at a challenge and hoping to win. Nowadays, when I'm taking on some crazy task like fighting a nasty boss in Terraria's Calamity mod, I find it easy to slip into that Celeste-taught mentality of 'try, try again' and don't think to do things like check in with my stress level or try and figure out other, external things I can do to make the process easier on myself. It's important to remember that taking the chance to step back, reassess, and reset isn't by any means an admission of defeat.
How have I not discovered you sooner. Not only was this video entertaining, this is exactly how I was able to train my dog out of his aggressive/reactive behaviours.
The conditioning, not the boss fights. Give treats about 75% of the time, so that they always know there is a *possibility* of a treat, but don't necessarily expect a treat every time.
I'm also a psychology student (studying my honours in psychology this year). On top of the 'extinction' process of the child's behaviour : crying and it's associated response from the father: giving the toy back. There could also be simultaneous learning/ process that occurs called "learned helplessness" because the child feels that their behaviour of crying (which can be interpreted as a form of communication to the parent) does not get them the connection or support that they need, thus, why even cry. Learned helplessness in this scenario may impact's the child's world views and beliefs in a way that makes them feel that their actions do not get them connection.
That's just my two cents and thought process about it lol. Thanks again Daryl for your content, as a fellow psychology student it's wonderful to see how these theories that we learn in psychology impact our gaming lives.
I would add the role that sleep and rest plays in learning, since you try a lot of new paths for motor executuion while trying and failing. Those paths, at first blocked by the arousal level you described, get reinforced with sleep and through replaying the scenarios in your head while you're not playing, giving you a new approach next time you play. Great vid :)
I got stuck on the 3rd boss in furi and quit the game but decided to come back many months later, and proceeded to bulldoze through every boss in the game save for the last one.
Yeah, I noticed years ago that if I took a break during a tough part of whatever game I happened to be playing, I'd have a much easier time beating the level/boss/puzzle/whatever when I got back. I eventually learned to stop playing for a little while if I wasn't making progress and come back to the game later.
Nice to have an explanation for why it works.
Techincally it boils down to patience and staying calm.
Very good videos, thanks a lot!! I remember how I got desperate over Golden Freezer at the end of DBZ Kakarot (Switch). I took a break. One day, I woke up thinking "you just have to dodge constantly", and I won second try :D Thank you for reframing temper tantrums into "taking a break", it sounds so much more kind and reasonable to oneself.
Haven't beaten the secret boss of Splatoon 2 for months due to laziness and very close victory lost me now I feel motivated again wish me luck.
Do you mean the secret boss in the Octoexpansion DLC? I will wish you luck. It was hard for me too and It took me many... many hours distributed in many weeks. I just couldn´t beat the boss after investing one or two hours straight at a time.
The day I beat it was a very special day. I was just playing multiplayer after work and I was totally relaxed; I was playing just for fun. I was playing in ranked mode and I went from A+ to rank S strangely easy and I just felt like I wasn´t playing like an S rank. I told myself that I will just have fun, loose 4 straight games and come back to A+ and just keep having fun; What happend was that even without trying I was winning many matches (like the 5 wins without looses). I was laughting hard because knowing how in some days I just could not win games while trying very hard but at this particular day was just winning without that much effort. Then suddenly I thought "wait a minute, this is my lucky day. With that luck I may have a chance to defeat the secret boss". I went to the boss, I have a some fail attemps BUT i felt like I was making so much progress. Then I arrived a couple times to the last phase; I paused the game so I could take a minute of breathing so I could calm my nerviousness. Then in the second time I arrived at the last phase, I played with all my consentration possible, and with all bravery to face the boss directly I clutched it and I defeat the boss (The last moment that I defeated an autobomb just exploded but I already defeated the boss so it just didn´t kill me). It was one of the most satisfying moment in my videogame experience; I never felt that good since defeating hard bosses in ninja gayden and dark souls. I will remmember that day for the rest of my life.
Being relaxed for a moment can be helpful. I think it matches with this video that you need some stress to be focused but not too much stress because you fall into a repeating the same mistakes pattern: and if you are tired it is even worse. At least it is what happens to me.
For me it’s rare to ragequit out of rage and anger, I usually just say to myself “You’re absolutely sucking it right now, take a break”
'friends was no where to be seen' and the world is a better place because of it
11:25 so basically if x^1 the more stress, the better, but if x^2, then we need to find the highest point on the parabola
When I first fought Troupe Master Grimm in Hollow Knight, I was continuously getting far in the fight, but I was too hyper focused and stressed about properly dodging that I'd just constantly fuck up. After about 7 tries I decided to call it for the night because it was like 1am. Fast forwards 2 months because my ADD never lets me play one game for too long, and even thought it felt like half of my knowledge of the fight and my muscle memory was forgotten... I beat him first try. Ever since then, I was always stumped on how such a feat was possible, and now I have my brilliant answer. Stellar work.
This happens A LOT to me in my day job: programming. Many many times I am struggling to progress and am completely exhausted, with pockets in my eyes and to the verge of plucking my hair. And then I give up. I leave the computer. I go watch tv, take a nap or go for a run. Or even leave a whole day pass only to come back the next day.
And then it happens. Problem solved. Program doesn't crash anymore. The next idea is the right one. I have this epiphany where I know what to do, when I was struggling before.
It happened to me so much that I started to embrace it and whenever I feel like I'm stuck, instead of panicking I'm simply saying to myself "ok time to take a break, I will probably find the solution tomorrow, or even in a week or two but it will happen as it always had".
“While we’re….”being educated””
My man, the laugh that was expelled at the Amelia noms
There's a famous gaming quote: "Games do not make people angry, lag does".
The feeling of unfairness is another factor. Personally, whenever I play multiplayer games, I have no problem losing in a fair game when the opponent is better than me (I believe some people cannot take a loss even if the game is completely fair and the opponent is better, but I'm not one of them). However, whenever I feel like the game is unfair (the opponent seems to use an aimbot / the internet connection feels like it is lagging / the controls feel different / whatever), and I am losing not because the opponent is better but solely because the game is unfair in favour of the opponent, I often feel like ragequitting: getting gud at the game will not make me win because the game seems unfair/unbalanced, therefore I have no reason to improve myself and thus I quit.
for me it was literally all the c sides expect the last one(still stuck) gor celeste. it took 3 hours on the first, took a break, and continuted to beat all the others within a few tries
Also I've noticed that, for me at least, i appreciate bosses less if I'm mad during or after a fight. So quitting and then coming back to it later will allow me to appreciate the fight because i now know more.