Science & Faith: Interpreting the Bible’s Creation Stories - Tim Mackie (The Bible Project)
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2017
- bridgetown.church/teaching/ye...
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Genesis chapters 1 and 2 contain some of the most explosive ideas about God and human beings that history has ever known, but they’ve been sadly overlooked due to the creation-evolution controversies in American history. In this lecture, Tim Mackie will help us rediscover how ancient Israelites would have read and understood these stories, and explore how they contribute to the Biblical storyline as a whole.
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Lecture Notes
www.dropbox.com/sh/73vwa6lmz2...
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About Bridgetown Church
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This teaching has changed my life and given me so much confidence to have faith in the truth of the Bible. Thank you Tim. You're a real hero bro!
While the key points are evident and natural for orient study researchers or Semitic literature scholars in Genesis' cultural context, the meaning of them are not always easy to grasp for conventional Church goers (sarcasm intended). Rev. Tim Mackie compiled those key concepts beautifully with pastoral mindfulness for serious believers of Christ-centered Bible religion.
I am so thankful for the lectures, provided free on UA-cam and other format on the internet, as I cannot afford to learn at seminaries.
Check out Christian Canadian Astrophysicist Hugh Ross
😊
So true,thankful for Tim Mackie’s free explanations !” Are you with me?”❤
I bless the day that I found one of your lectures invmy recommendations on UA-cam. Now I can take time and read the Bible, with fresh new eyes. Your lectures answer so many questions. God bless you Brother!
Tim...I don't know if you read these comments, but please keep up the GREAT work! Thanks for being you and sharing your insights with us. Man oh man do more people need to listen to this.
Jimmey LeBlanc this channel isn’t run by Tim btw
This lecture changed my life. Honestly.
You rock!!! I've learned to experience the BIBLE with a completely different take. Grew up Southern Baptist...You make it all make sense
Tim I just found your channel and your cartoons. Couple of weeks ago I so much appreciate them May the Lord continue to bless you. And expand your knowledge in his word. You have been a blessing. In my life Thank you.
Tim, do you do the cartoons yourself?
@@bensilliman7325 nope he has a team of artists he works with, also someone else puts together these sermons for him, hope this helps :)
wonderful depth of the beginning
I thank our Lord Amighty for this ministry He put in your heart. I am very, very very hungry to learn more of Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit, but i am confused about Trinity and his creation (Genesis). Your lectures helping me to understand Jesus better and better. And Its free! Salvation is free! Now i can listen and listen and watch all your lectures without having to worry about paying. Your bring classroom to my own room!
Interesting take
Wonderful! Thank you ❤️
Very powerful.
Some say that Christianity actually provided the philosophical basis for modern science. Two major points that proceed from Genesis are that 1) the physical world is a created world (not gods) and thus not beyond us to study and 2) the world is an intelligible world, as it flows from the mind of a rational Creator. These points also flow from the Genesis creation story.
Check out Christian Canadian Astrophysicist Hugh Ross Testing Genesis With Advanced Science video on UA-cam
Hugh Ross and Francis Collins are two Pea(*)s in a pod.
Enjoy listening to your lessons Tim Mackie glad you are using God's gift of teaching to His people 🙏
More please!
I remembered somewhere about the middle here that some ancient Hebrew scholars back before Copernicus concluded purely on the basis of the Hebrew that:
* the universe started out smaller than a grain of mustard, i.e. the smallest thing possible
* it was filled with fluid
* it expanded more rapidly than humans can comprehend
* at first the fluid was so dense that light couldn't shine
* as the universe expanded the fluid got thinner and thinner until light could shine
* once light could shine, God commanded light to exist
* the universe is old beyond human comprehension
* the Earth is old beyond human counting
I about fell off my chair when I first read this because that sounds like how a cosmologist might summarize the Big Bang, yet they came up with these conclusions straight from the Hebrew back before there were even telescopes!
@1:24:50 Thank you so much
I too have constant reading of the first few chapters of Genesis. It gives out allot of gold nugget questions that requires allot of research. I come away with a very different point of view about all of Genesis.
53:18 tim, it is of interest to god for humans to have understanding of length of creation, else he will not even give account of it defining how long a day is and what was done in each of those successive days and that there were only six of those.
it shows so much of his nature, his ability (power, knowledge, mindset, resource [by the word of his mouth!!!!]) and his love for his creation.
Praise God 💞......he came out of his parents basement 👍
I love this because when I became a Christian when I was 21 I knew nothing about the Bible. They told me to read John which was good but. Then I read it straight through and it made sense.
Are you with me, are you with me, are you with me, are you guys with me.......
I always knew things didn't add up with the creation story, like the order of humans and animals changing a bit. To hear historical context with reference to culture is amazing. Thank you!
Why doesn't it add up ???
@@patrickkparrker413 the way the days changed depending on the chapter that you was reading. If it was absolute proof then the days couldn't change from one chapter to the other. With a lil concept of framing, it could possibly make more sense the next time I read it.
@@crystalwebb200 Its pretty straight forward listen to kent hovind or John mackay for more details .
@@patrickkparrker413 I have been taking the bible project's college course since this video and have learned a wealth of knowledge about our bible's history. It's very cool when you understand things better. It makes it more pleasurable to read. 😁
@@crystalwebb200 Really , " forever learning " .
Beautiful, God bless you sir!
We are still learning from you.
Sush an awesome teacher but I wish there were pictures to this teaching since I am a visual learner.
As far as I know, there aren’t visuals for THIS particular lecture, BUT! Tim Mackie co-founded the Bible Project, which is for free on UA-cam. They’re beautiful and well-made, and they teach the Bible really well through animations (perfect for visual learners!).
Hope that helps!
This is really powerful makes me think Jesus also viemed page 1 and 2 of the bible similar, thank you for uploading Tims teachings.
This was interesting to me because my introduction to the issue was via learning Hebrew and reading ancient Hebrew literature and then seeing that the first Creation account fit ancient near eastern genres, so when I encountered people saying it had to be fit to match evolution and others saying it had to be taken literally my reaction was pretty much, "Huh? What are you talking about?"
If I could send this video back in time to me then, I could respond, "Your approaches violate basic principles of human communication" -- that's just a great line because it moves the issue to the real issue!
BTW, is there a version of this with video so we can see Tim and what he has on the screen? I think we're missing a LOT by not seeing his slides.
I love how Tim teaches! The Bible used to be unappealing and unapproachable. Just curious if anyone knows Tim’s view point on intelligent design?
I wanna see what's happening on the screen!! Is that resource somewhere?
Wanda Maximoff cool, thanks
Oh if Tim Mackie would release a bible study guide chock full of these annotations and footnotes 😭🙏🙏🙏🙏
He co-owns a channel that studies the bible in depth, check out the Bible Project on youtube. If you want more then go check out Tim Mackie channel on youtube.
If you want the lecture notes in this video then it's in the description
Anyone have an idea on his quote,"the Bible is a living word." Focusing mostly on the meaning of living, as it applies to us understanding it.
It’s from Hebrews 4:12
“For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”
Best explanation i heard was that Genesis is poetry because poetry is timeless. A description of creation using Newtonian physics would have been useful up until 100 years ago etc and so on etc etc whereas poetry is a timeless language of meaning and ideas. Look up sixty symbols interview with the popes scientist
1:01 "the spirit carries god's mind and made a tangible reality..." scriptures clearly state that god created all things by and through jesus.
i have to leave. again, thank you tim for sharing your studies and thoughts with us.
i encourage everyone to use the pause button to check out whatever time shares if it is biblically true, sound. i have noticed many who watch videos about scriptures have not learned from the example of the bereans who listened with glad hearts to the teachings of the paul and silas and yet did not stop there, but took the effort to verify if what they are hearing is true and helps in the correct understanding of scriptures.
truth is what sets us free. the only way we can know is to know god's word ourselves. listening to what others have found are helpful when they actually are scripture based. sometimes they are not and it is our responsibility to our creator to learn the truth and not be deceived.
Hi Ptr. Tim, this is a great sermon definitely explained many questions I had from Genesis. I also watched 'The Bible' video from the Bible Project which also explains how scripture came together. Well, I want to say that these videos are great in understanding why are scriputures so different from our writings today and makes me appreciate them more.
But could you please also do a video on the divine inspiration of the Bible that would be of great help. Thank you.
There's a sermon he did called where does the bible come from, and why should we care? Or something to that extent.
I’m a Christian and don’t know people angry about creation or the Bible in general.
He totally got to the heart of it! So fascinating!! This was a wonderful way to spend my afternoon, and I'll be pondering lots of things over the next few days. I'm so thankful for Tim Mackie's ministry!!
Reasons I Believe Genesis is ALSO Literal:
- The 4th commandment is based on a creation week of 7 literal days
- Jesus' argument about divorce is based on the creation of male/female
- There was no death or disease before The Fall; if there was, it means it will also be in Heaven when we return to the original creation. No death or disease = cancerous fossils CAN NOT pre-date The Fall.
- God is clearly the Creator and He's done crazier things than make a universe in seven days. I don't think it's far-fetched at all. When I was a child I wondered why it took Him so long! "Leeeeeettttt theeeeeeeeerrrrrrrreeeeee bbbbbeeeeee liiiiiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt......"
Rachel Mae Sea I agree, OHHH How I wish Tim responds to this comment!!!
Thanks for sharing 🌻
I agree with you in your statement "I Believe Genesis is Also literal", so do I, don't doubt it, it is the true and you got the point with your explanation.
They knew how it worked back then, we are in the most deceptive time of human history. The Hebrews knew the cosmology of the earth
All I want to know is if you personally believe that God created all things by speaking them into existence.
Trayal: Thank you for the question. This is not Tim's channel. He has no association with it. You might try listening to the Q&A which deals with the same issues of the creation narratives. I dont believe he directly deals with that however the discussion adds quite a bit to his perspective. What do you believe? Feel free to add share your perspective.
@Mark Metternich He has a channel which consists with a team called The Bibe Project.
What do u think of God?
What does word or sound possess? A wave, frequency and energy. If u agree to it as a science believer, then you should know what God word is all about...
We fail if we try to view the Creator as an image of the created.
what I'm hearing you say is that Tim has failed because he is suggesting that the Hebrews were pulling their story from the cultures around them instead of God revealing himself to them. is that correct?
@@625098evan No, we humans fail when we try to see God on our level, or even below our level. As if God's Day is 24 hours, or God is just some painting on a wall, or a statue nailed to the floor. We are made in God's image, so all we can do is be in awe with what God has done. Actually there is much God has not reveled to us.
@@625098evan maybe God revealed these things thru other cultures. Surely Judeo-Christians aren’t the only ones that see God in nature.
55:41 genesis 1 is "the" story of god creating everything out of nothing. this is so important. only in this can we learn that there is someone ultimately who we are accountable for, the someone who created everything out of nothing. in fact, it is the meaning of the verb "create" h1254 bara בָּרָא which is only used of that godly action in the entirety of scriptures.
Really enjoyed your comments and learned so much. . One things I wish you could have given an opinion on is why the particular word for "day" was used. You go into such wonderful detail of words like in the beginning, and rib and showing how future use of those words in scripture don't support what we read into them in chapter 1 and 2. But you tell us nothing of how "day" is used through out the rest of scripture. This seemed like you wanted to use future word usage to support certain ideas but not bring it up in the one place where you conceded that the text was most controversial. I would really have liked to hear your opinion there also.
I never thought about genesis this way, it makes sense that people over 3000 years ago used their imagination to try to explain things they didn't understand about the world around them and that doesn't go against God at all.
Is it possible that the second word for "beginning" is actually initiating not just the creation account but the whole of human history?
Waters, so He see everything
The message, is the messanger, and messiah so to speak..
If there exists angry Christians, my suspicion is it may be due to the absolute intolerance by non-Christians for the Christians belief in Creation. My dear brother, whom I love so much, is downright nasty towards me if I ever try to engage him in conversation; I like to talk about Mitochondrial Eve (among many other topics that may point to creation rather than evolution) and he mocks me, he tells me I'm stupid and an idiot to believe such things. He has degrees in aviation and geology; I have degrees in engineering and mathematics. Neither of us is stupid, but he refuses to even consider an opposing viewpoint. One other thing: I love Mackie. He has a way of connecting scriptural dots and I learn so much from him (I am a 42-year student of the bible so I'm good at confirming what is and what isn't scriptural). Anyway, sometimes I think--as in this lecture--that Tim is attempting to sidle up to the non-Christians by being critical of Christians. Just my sense.
I question the idea that the creation story was developed via neighbors etc. If Moses wrote (or directed to be written) Genesis, did the Israelites also develop the Noah story via neighboring cultures? Or were both these stories handed down and survived the Flood via Noah? The Flood provides a narrative bottleneck here. This means the creation story could easily have been handed down via Noah's family to absolutely everyone going forward and was subsequently varried as tribes separated, both from each other and also from Yahweh. That seems a more plausible reason for the somewhat similar details of other cultural creation stories.
I don't think Tim meant that ancient Israelites invented Adam, Abraham, Moses, etc. I've heard him at other points push against the thought that he's saying Noah was made up like the James Bond of his day, cobbled together from ancient sources. But the way they talked about Noah was certainly mindful of other traditions in order to lead them toward that Yahweh. For example, Noah means "rest" while Utnapishtim from Gilgamesh means "he who saw life," two ways of remembering that one man's relationship with God in the midst of calamity... but the biblical account has its own spin. (Yahweh isn't one of a pantheon like Ea, Yahweh has no Mother Goddess to help him make man, and Yahweh isn't subverting the divine authorities by telling Rest/Life-Seer to build a boat like Ea was... what they say about the spiritual realm is worlds apart but close enough to connect to on a human level.) So the stories could definitely have a single origin which diverged and then is being brought back together throughout Genesis. Because that's, in a way, what Jesus does. Jesus continues the work of restoring the diverse storyline of mankind by making "one new man" through his life, death, resurrection, and reign. And he told his disciples to go share that message unto the uttermost parts of the earth, which means using their idioms, terms, and history to do so while also being 100% faithful to these stories we are bringing.
R A • Thank you.
1:00 and the spirit of god was hovering over. it is not only in this verse that the spirit of god is accounted as separately present from god. the concordance is helpful in establishing that the spirit of god is a separate being. the spirit of god cannot be equated with our human spirit that cannot act on its own separately from us, tim.
If days are metaphors for epochs the Creation story follows with science.
You mean scientism
does anyone know where I can find the picture\drawing he is constantly talking about?
What did Moses/Israelites think when God spoke the words in Exodus 20 reiterating that He created sky, earth, sea and all that are in them in 6 days, resting on the 7th (and because of that they must remember the sabbath every 7th day)? Did God use a word that means "day" or was it obviously not explicitly days? If it wasn't days, wouldn't it be confusing (God could just command them to rest every 7th day and not provide the correlation). Since He mentions it again when giving the 10 commandments, it does seem important and something to be understood one way or another. The verses related to this topic seem much less (even not at all) metaphorical compared to the obviously metaphorical examples related to composition and structure.
Is there a video of this teaching by Tim somewhere online?
Globes. Maps. Telescopes. I think people knew what the earth looked like before 1960?
That's not his point. People (not all of them by the way!) had a general *idea* of what the Earth looks like. Now they *saw* with their own eyes. What an enormous, anthropology changing event that was.
@@Astronomynatureandmusic Yes. I think for those of us born with images of the Earth from space don't appreciate how amazing it would have been when the were first shown to the world. That is something I have never considered myself. I will have to ask my parents.
Curious of your opinion on the book(s) of Enoch?
Sadly i can't see your lesson here. Just a post note. What # is this on his site ?
Believe in the total seven days of Creation so far. I am not sure what it will take for me to leave THIS ideology.
Great theater. Peanut gallery is like this 👌.
33:09 rakija in Croatia is an alcoholic drink!
55:15 god did not "find" his creation in the state of shapelessness and emptiness. he founded it that way. he had to create a foundation of water and earth that had to be formed. like making a cookie, one has to make the dough and then shape it after ^_^.
Tim, do you or your coworkers form Bible Project know our brothers in Christ from the Creation Museum (Ken Ham)?
I'm not Tim. This channel is not run by Tim. This channel is not run by me either. I just happen to know that. I also know Ken Ham, or his ideas rather, quite well. He argues very very hard for young earth creationism. the weight of his argument isn't in scripture. the white of his argument lies in the idea that the only way to keep Christianity strong is to teach biblical literalism, and that the bible says the earth is young. His scriptural evidence isn't terribly scholarly. He is, in fact, not a scholar. He has a bachelor degree in applied science, which is maybe a bit more in depth than my own bachelor degree in engineering. I am quite certain the Ken does sincerely believe in Christ, but the argument he lays out in his book "the lie" doesn't hold much water.
@@625098evan Sorry, I didn't know that this channel wasn't run by Tim. And what are your arguments that contradicts Ken's beliefs Evan?
@@ChrisDuduTsen see Reasons to believe at Reasons.org/more by Hugh Ross Astrophysicist: his views bring the Bible into agreement with what we are discovering in science!
The Bible was written to an Ancient culture: but the Universe being created by God does as Paul says in Romans, reveals a second testimony of God .
These two are not in opposition: but in harmony!
Yahweh has no rivals! Yaassss!
51:54 the point is truly the length of time "reshith" covers if we are to hold to the belief that scriptures do not contradict itself that reshith refers to the beginning of the first day of creation. and the length of that day is one earth day. see comment below. reshith also is used as "first" as in "first fruits." it is a bone of contention as it gives no room for the theory of evolution. it is a bone of contention as it confirms that claim in exo 20:11 that god created "the heavens and the earth" in 6 (earth) days.
introducing those other uses of reshith and then not settling on what the use of it in this particular account is not helpful in confirming the belief that creation was done in 6 days accepting the infinite power, wisdom and love of one who can create such complex, interdependent, extremely varied and beautiful universe and everything that is in it just for man.
What an educator! He reads chapter one where animals are made and on the following day man is made. Then he reads chapter two where man is made then animals are made, and he concludes both accounts are describing the same event. AND THIS IS LOGICAL???? LOL
Both created on day 6. Chapter 2 is following on that’s how writing works it developes so here we see more details about Mankind as that’s what concerns us more!
So, if I'm hearing this correctly, chapters 1 & 2 of Genesis is essentially cultural poetry about how the earth, sky, sea, land, plants animals and us came to be, making reference to the benevolence of the creator and the 'spark' placed in humanity - would that be a fair assessment? In which case, 1. When does the account become literal - with the garden, or the fall, and 2. How does this marry with the other creation accounts in Job, Proverbs, Psalms - are these also primarily poetic and 3. What do you make of the dazzling scientific approach to these accounts offered by Dr Hugh Ross,who clearly sees the accounts offering up information that marrys to our growing realm of hard data about the physical nature of the cosmos?
You are not hearing correctly.
It is cultural poetry with the purpose of showing how God was the only God, and to show his character and his special relationship with humans. When taken literally, many parts of Genesis are just incorrect. It has to be read from the perspective of a person living 3000 years ago.
@@austynstephens9263 So, it isn't to be taken as cultural poetry?
Have you read any of Hugh Ross' work?
That's how I tend to read it. But I don't see the need to clearly define or separate myth from history. Even so, if I were really pressed to make a call, I'd place the first most historical person at Abraham. But, like, the Egyptian plagues parallel with Egyptian gods so there could be mythic elements all throughout, serving to describe the spiritual reality of Yahweh's redemptive action and superiority to other spiritual powers if not *literally* causing dust to turn into lice (Exodus 8:17). How has your understanding developed in the last 3 years since posting this inquiry?
one final comment on the title of this presentation: scriptures is not for private interpretation. every believer who wants the truth needs to pray for understanding from god when reading and studying his word. the scholars of jesus' day were dead wrong and ended up murdering him (of course unwittingly fulfilling god's plan of salvation through jesus). the same is true today but it is the eternal life of believers that is at stake. jesus warns us that deception will be rife that makes victims even of the "elect" of god before he comes. let us heed his warning. we listen to others, but we verify. due diligence is our responsibility especially for matters that have eternal consequence.
You need Jordan Peterson to give you a shout out so that you can get the audience you should have. More people need to hear this !
You and I can share it to our friends, colleagues. Jordon Peterson just used biblical texts & characters to explain his messages. He's neither a Christian not a believer of God. Christians should be cautious of Peterson's message.
@@kerangg6934 I think they're saying we need to throw the seed of the Gospel in that direction.
@@Avenray19 the guy just suggested to use Peterson, a non-believer, as a star campaigner for drawing audience to the Gospel. How naive is that! Christians should not be so gullible to be allured by some eloquent psychologist using biblical symbols & characters to preach his doctrine.
@@kerangg6934 I guess I disagree. The Gospel will be spread however its spread.
Maybe it could be a Saul/Paul type situation. Who knows? Lets just start the dialogue :) see where God takes it!
@@Avenray19 Those claiming that Peterson led them closer to Christ is just adulating their idol and the rest is just lying as a result of herd mentality - jumping on the bandwagon.
Galatians 1:6-8 (KJV) 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
How do Adam and Eve play into this?
It has a genealogy after them that would assume a young earth right?
How are we to know if the writers were using ancestors as an example or had literal stories of those ancestors being the first humans.
'Reading the bible is a cross-cultural experience.' 💗💗💗
it is a good teaching . he is my favorite teacher by far but still have so many questions . if we open this Pandora box of picking and choosing then what is true in the bible and what is not true .
it also raised a question of reliability as well . if someone write a biography and mentions somewhere in his book that the sky was yellow when he mentions his life experience it will put the whole book in doubt . the same logic could be said here as well , if bible is too far from the truth about creation when talking about human beginning it put the whole book under a cloud of suspicion .
then how about evolution of humans from simple cellular organisms ? can we say something about that from the bible or it is not relevant again?
I agree, but stating that "all that it is in the bible is true" is a faith and theological statement is it not? I think we need to remember that while the bible is God's inspired work, it is also written by men. The bible is a book written to tell a story / argue for a certain theological point and thus, many things written in it are given to support said point. It is then normal for us to reason what is written for what purpose and that is the view of biblical inspiration that I personally hold.
I understand some will point out the passage from Paul's letter to Timothy but again, what is "Scripture" to Paul? And what does he mean by "breathed by God?" I believe that's another argument entirely. That said, its my personal opinion sooooo yeaa
I think the point was not to pick and choose what is true in the Bible and what is not, because when we start to pick and choose, we aren't reading it like an ancient text as the original authors intended. The point is not "this is true/false scientifically", because "scientifically" is not the way to read an ancient text. I think what Tim was trying to say is that we have to give up our preconceptions as modern readers and see Genesis as an ancient text, trying to see what ancient readers would see as true.
So the same idea can be applied to whether the Bible can provide any meaningful arguments for/against evolution and its general historical reliability. They are not relevant because they are scientific question, and the Bible is an ancient text which isn't supposed to answer scientific questions.
@@lezhilo772 ahh i get it! Thanks so much for your comment!
39:00
Tohu & bohu but what about “Bara”? Only God can “Bara” Create out of nothing, by His Word HE Spoke The Creation into being.
Let there be Light!
We need The Whole Counsels of God!
The fallen angels, the devil, rebellion and evil.
Isaiah 14 Ezekiel 28 etc
God is Perfect! Sovereign!
Why was there any chaos?
When you want to teach someone inferior to you (Like children) about something important (Like math) so that you can eventually partner with them to use what they have learned to do something meaningful (Maybe construction, engineering, or architecture)...
Would you ever start by handing a 4 year old a totally finished airplane engine, a calculus question, or the blueprint for a modern skyscraper?
Of coarse not.
This life isn't a movie like the Matrix where you can download an entire language into your understanding within seconds... Nor is it a life where God intended humans to stay stagnant in some perpetual state of euphoria where He is our magical butler.
God has always wanted a real relationship with humans where we freely choose to parter with God to take His functionally good creation somewhere meaningful using HIS wisdom and guidance.
God does not need us or other spiritual being (Like angels) for anything. But God chooses to create for His pleasure, and because He enjoys being loving. We see clear examples in scripture with the divine council of spiritual beings that God includes created individuals in doing things and making decisions (Just like a teacher or parent would empower children to learn, make decisions, and do certain projects in life that helps them mature and grow).
The bible talks about the garden of Eden as a very special places that is very unique and special in comparison to the rest of the earth. The rest of the earth was definitely not perfect. There is a reason why God tells human to subdue and have dominion of the earth.
Tim references michael heiser occasionally. michael's work on the "unseen realm" is excellent. that is what your comment is about.
Slides?
Tim has lecture notes from previous talks he has given on this same subject. I have posted them here in the description. As for slides if I can make progress and get a hold of some other handouts I will see if i can get a hold of the slides for this.
Thanks for replying :) Yes, I got the notes already, it's just that there are a number of times when Tim is obviously discussing images we can't see. Would be great if we could get the slides (and putting them in the video would be even better!)
How does one correctly spell tovoo vovavvoo?
Tohu Bohu
It's "tohu vavohu"
The allegory interpretation method may satisfy the urge for syncretism but it neglects the plain reading of the text: literal, grammatical, historical hermeneutic. "And there was evening and there was morning, one day...". Everything Tim has to say here is good to consider and challenge facil assumptions but I don't agree. I must admit that I don't have back ground in the original languages though...
The author of the text was not writing a history. It is presented as a prophetic text.
In essence Genesis is right. We have proved that the moment of creation of the Universe happened. Seven days in Universal and metaphysical terms can be anything, but the essence is there. The writing is to speak to the hearts and minds of men, especially of its time of writing, to cover the creation in a impressionistic manner to grasp the huge concept, not to be judged against science or even the measure of time yet to be discovered or formulated by man who had yet to actually exist in the story it paints. God's measures of process and time go beyond man's concept or forms of measurement. The proof if you choose to believe, is there in the moment of creation which has ideed been proven. The detail and unanswered elements are where faith comes in. The Bible is of course mystical and the vague parts are about the feel and overall picture or meaning, the detail is made up of faith. The nearest example I can think of is having a partner or spouse that you know or believes loves you. You may have a overview of some of why they love you but wouldn't be able to detail minutely why they do nor would you ask them to. If they were to, the likelihood would be an impressionist expression capturing a few specifics but the essence of that love rather than numbers of hard to define specifics. The closest relationships we have are done on "feelings" rather than breaking them down into factual components to demystify "love" as such. You could say so much of our closest relationships of love are made up of unknown or mysterious detail much aligned to an act of "faith". The best relationships are those you have faith in that they work in some ways you can explain but many you cannot. Faith is that replicated in a spiritual and cosmic sense.
Atlantis 1:17:52
You make valid points that we often miss important meanings by bringing our own presuppositions and wants, but explaining how Genesis cannot be read literally or that we cannot know what is and is not literal seems to also diminish the potential of the text. Biggest problem that I see applying this approach to Genesis is that the author of Genesis must be God - because Moses was not there. However God inspired Moses to write it down, He is the author. I see no reason that God would not speak intelligently about the reality of the earth or cosmos (i.e., "atmosphere" as an expanse or even a dome) and Moses would do his best to capture what he was told or saw through dream/vision (however God gave it to him). So what if we now understand that reference better than they could "back in the day"? Very different than a psalmist writing songs/poems, which is obviously first a human author while Genesis cannot be because no human was there. (and the Harry Potter analogy really is awful, and I believe invalid). I digress... I'll just not dwell on this.
Check out Christian Canadian Astrophysicist "Hugh Ross" : "Testing Genesis With Advanced Science" video on UA-cam
You cant just read the Bible like "any other book", no it did not "fall from heaven" but that is totally irrelevant, the Scripture is Gods literal word to us and we have to let Scripture interpret Scripture.
Since God gave us the Bible, it is written in a way that is timeless.
Third, God was speaking to a people of ignorance about science and astrology.
😂
While scholars might see no evidence of ancient ppl having any concept of "nothing", I doubt that means they didn't. Before I ever had a science lesson, I could imagine what nothing was just by sitting in my dark bedroom, on a moonless night.
That's not hard to imagine being correct, considering the surprising technological feats of ancient cultures like the Minoans' flushing toilets or Easter Island sculptures, etc. Just curious... Did you imagine your own lack of being - nothing observing nothing as opposed to a being observing nothing as a thing?
Open minded researchers are difficult to find. They can't help but bring their world view into their translation 😢. If I knew the names of your scholars I would like to research their world view....
Wut? You telling me them Bible writers didn't exist in a cultural vacuum? Heresy!
56:00 concept of nothing. it is not a rocket science. one looks at an empty cookie jar and sees there is nothing in it. one's mind then is led to a being who can create everything out of nothing as an awesome being worthy of our reverence and love ^_^.
It is time for believers worldwide to WAKE UP, get serious about reading the WORD, obeying what we read and STOP putting our trust in man!
Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his arm, and whose heart turns away from Yahweh"(Jeremiah 17:5)
We have been LIED TO in Churches about the Name above all names. Our Creator has a Name - YAHWEH and He put His Name upon His one and only begotten Son - YAHSHUA.
Be on guard before Him and obey His voice. Do not rebel against Him, for He is not going to pardon your transgression, for My Name is in Him." (Exodus 23:21)
We have been LIED TO about the SABBATHS of Yahweh.
Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants, all who guard the Shabbath, and not profane it, and hold fast to My Covenant - them I shall bring to My qodesh mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer." (Isaiah 56:6-7)
We Have been LIED TO about the COMMANDS of Yahweh.
And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His Commands. The one who says, 'I know Him,' and does not guard His Commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Elohim has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. (1 John 2:3-5)
It is time to PRAY for an opening of BLINDED EYES to understand His loving Covenant to ISRAEL, who we MUST be GRAFTED IN TO to become the children of Yah! It's time to shelve our learning inherited from "the whore" and become as little children to allow the Spirit of Yah to re-instruct us in the TRUTH!
Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become as little children, you shall by no means enter into the reign of the shamayim." (Matthew 18:3)
It's time to CLEAN UP our act and to cease wallowing in the abominations and lusts of the world!
Come out from among them and be separate, says יהוה, and do not touch what is unclean, and I shall receive you." (2 Corinthians 6:17)
A total enslavement is coming very very soon. You want Truth with Scripture go to 2besaved dot com.
Yet Jesus came (John 5 ) and told The Jews (Matthew 12)
HE prophesied The Destruction of The Temple! 70 ad
Jesus said Love!
YES, Jesus claimed the Devine name of the Father who gave it to him , He also summed up All God's commandments into two: 1Love God .
2 Love you're neighbor as yourself .
Hebrews explains why Christianity is God's new covenant and is superior to the old covenant.
Sunday was used because Christ rose on the first day of the week.
This was a religious day outside of Israel in many countries and the church was able to have its formal gatherings.
They also met on other days, early Jewish believers still went to the temple before 70AD .
Both Sat( Sabbath) and Sunday( the Lord's day) were celebrated by the early church !
Christ fulfilled the law ! We are not to be under the law or you must be under the total law of the O.T.
@@davidjanbaz7728 - yes, that is typical Catholic Christian inspired rhetoric... May I ask, sir, what did you repent from?
If all the Laws are fulfilled, why bother even being a believer?
When you fail to apply ALL the Scriptures (2Tim 3:16) you have NO doctrine, No Instruction in Righteousness and equipped for NO good works!
You may need to study WHO changed the Sabbath to the venerable Day of the Sun (Deis Solis) and examine the Greek phrase - mia sabbaton - often translated as "first day of the week" yet literally means "one of the Sabbaths."
Hebrews explains that Yahshua is our High Priest fulfilling all the Levitical Torah and offerings, but all the other Commands (cleanliness, dietary, sexual, moral) and Laws are still to be obeyed and are a sign of those who love Yahweh:
1Jn 5:3 "For this is the love of Yahweh, that we guard His Commands: and His Commands are not heavy."
Fourth, mankind did evolve, but that evolution was God’s attempt to create man and woman to be both perfect and able to procreate and getting the DNA sequences to not differ when they have off spring. Thus, this process was done in an evolutionary way. Once he got it all properly created, he named them Adam and Eve.
You have a very weak god.
That contradicts the bible
First off, when you are out in space of the earth, it is -455 Fahrenheit degrees in space. So, God had to be in Spirit form to speak everything into existence.
Second, time is God’s time since he hasn’t created earth time in the creation of the earth and it’s atmospheres and the solar system inside of our Milky Way Galaxy. I can go on and on but, God did create everything into its current existence.
Biblically this is not the creation.
If one has the Holy Spirit one can know the word of God. For this is the purpose of the Holy Spirit. As Paul said we are responsible for our own salvation. He goes on to say in 2nd Timothy "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly discerning the word of truth. G.O.Thomas: Unless you fast unto the world, you will in no way find the Kingdom of God; and unless you observe the sabbath as a Sabbath you will not come to see the Father. (The millennium, after the 6,000 years) and now There is a mystory in Jude. He who finds it will be amazed. Listen to the Holy Spirit.
If you knew anything about Hebrew, you would know that God gave that language to the Israelites, so that they could write His Word down. It is a very precise language and its clear that Genesis is an ACCOUNT or a HISTORY of creation.
Ancient Israelites(and Egyptians for that matter) understood that earth is a planet in space, they had fallen angels giving them all kinds of knowledge.
1:14:00
So, why did God want to create a human??? We first got our creation spiritually called our “First Estate”. We are the children of God spiritually. As spirits, we cannot enjoy life as humans because spirits don’t comprehend human characteristics. God gives us our Second Estate of existence by being placed into the born human baby. Our Third Estate of existence is when we die and are resurrected into our perfect human body that Jesus demonstrated to us by his resurrection. Having a body that can eat and drink and walk through walls and not die from frailty. The body will not decay, it will be an eternal body.
I am exploring the issues you have raised. In your comment you wrote, “As spirits, we cannot enjoy life as humans because spirits don’t comprehend human characteristics.”
Would you care to comment on the following? As spirits, we cannot fully enjoy life as humans because “the carnal mind* is enmity with God”, that is, the flesh does not comprehend the things of the Spirit.
*carnal mind (carne = meat, carnal mind = meat head).
I ask sincerely. Thanks.
God never creates from choas...He created the world to be inhabited and did not create it from vanity and chaos.God always creates in perfection and through time or the eons He ends it in cataclysm.This is Gods MO and how he is doing things.....until the good eons which are impending.The 1000 year reign of Christ is coming and then the new heaven and earth will be the fifth eon in Gods eonian calendar.
oh boy, you didn't listen to Tim at all did you.
What about the ten commandments then??
What do you want to know about them exactly?
What about them?
@@franciscor.m.8003 Sorry guys, O wanted to know if he considers we should follow them, and why? and if not, why not ?
ElficChannel follow Jesus
@@P.H.888 Written in stine by God (Jesus) ten.
And following Him means keeping them.
Tim- "we're making the divine origins *trump over * the human origins of the Bible...It's a basic conviction; i think it's just a violation and don't think it's necessary...we are making the Bible do something it was not designed to do".
The Bible:
“Brothers, **the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David** concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus." - Acts 1:16
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."- 2 Tim 3:16
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..." -John 1.
"Send forth Your Word and let there be light"- Psalms, Genesis
"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself"- Luke 24:27
"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." Gal 1 6-9
Me: IS this in fact theo-crat Christianity meets Human Center Design 2020? What does this all mean? Clever, User-friendly TBP concept/effort for entry level scriptural introduction 101. However, doctrinal Christianity is not animation. And all purported Biblical teachings must be searched in the light of the Scripture for accuracy.
Your last sentence is exactly what this lecture is about.
Suppositions over suppositions. Sorry to the guy’s blind fans, but his arguments are very week. Trying to reconcile a earthly narrative with a supernatural creation is either silly or dishonest
Who sin? I dont get it
A lot of people sin?
1996 & everybody sins
Adam (human kind)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching,rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. -2 Timothy 3:16-17
The Bible is either Gods Word or it is a human book, there is no in between. Sir you need to repent, you are leaning on your own understanding and the understanding of "smart" people instead of asking the Spirit to interpret the Scriptures.
That doesn’t make sense in my mind. Was Jesus not fully human and God? He was.
@@shannasonnier5403 God used people to physically write the Scripture, but that's as human as it gets, everything in Scripture came from Gods mouth. Saying its "a human book,too" is misleading and raises questions about inerrancy. If theres even one error in Scripture, we can trust none of it.
@@htebazileeilsel2293 How do you trust any human being? If you carried that ideal in your day to day life, you wouldn't be able to trust anyone. This doesn't mean be naïve, but it does mean recognizing the limitations of any human language. We shouldn't expect an ancient text to have modern concepts about cosmology like us. It's going to be different. If your whole faith in Christianity is simply "the bible can't get anything wrong" that's a very flimsy faith. It's a house of cards.
The earth BECAME a wasteland and chaotic.This was what took place in the eon prior to the world that God REcreated in Genesis chapter 1.There are also two creation stories in chapter one and two.