Fun fact- That picture of the track with all the construction work going on was during the period they were trying to get the track ready for the F1, but they ran out of cash and it was sat like it for some time, so no racing could go ahead. Almost ended the track for good.
They didnt run out of cash - Bernie and co made a demand for an insane amount of money up front, after the deal had been done. Almost lost the circuit altogether because of it
It was a stitch up. It was all about leverage. Bernie knew he could screw more money out of Silverstone, and used Donington as the stick. I firmly believe there was no intention to ever actually go there, and it was regrettable Donington's ownership was led on as such.
The only "what if" circuit i've actually liked in sin racing is the Lime Rock Mountain circuit. What a beautiful track, it's a shame it was never built.
Biggest shame was the loss of the museum, I was lucky enough to get there before it closed, but didn't get to see everything so always wanted to go back again
I've only been to Donington once but didn't have time to see the museum. That's OK I thought I'll check it out next time. Not been back and gutted I never got to see the museum :(
I was lucky enough to visit it twice. It was a wonderful place, packed with interesting and historic racing cars, but on both occasions (midweek) it was almost empty. I managed to take some fantastic photographs though.
I lived 10 miles away on Fridays on school days we could hear cars and bikes practice mu dad worked for DHL at the time we went every weekend seen the museum many times its the only thing I miss about living in Derby
You're spot on about the public transport not working. Imagine having 150,000 fans there and busing them in each day to the circuit. It's chaos when BTCC is there with 10-20k fans and takes 2-3 hours to get out of the circuit. There would've had to have been a massive upgrade of the road infrastructure round there too for this to even stand a chance of working, which to my knowledge was never in the pipeline.
If the traffic wouldve been anything like how it is during download, id hope theyd upgrade the roads nearby. It took hours to get back to donington if you went out for the day
yeah. public transport in Leicestershire is almost completely non-existent. in fact, Leicester is officially the UK's worst-connected city by rail. plus the buses are under constant threat of being cut completely
Tom Wheatcroft is one of my business heroes. I once read a quote of his that went, "Always leave a bit in the deal for the other bloke. Then he'll always come back and do business with you. "
At the Silverstone DTM race, he told me, "I'm just a simple builder", with a wink. That man was very cunning. All the trees that disappeared - even though Leicestershire Council did not approve it - were because he challenged them to give him a signed assurance that none of them would cause injury to a spectator. Of course, armed with that, anyone injured climbing a tree could sue the council, and they weren't going to fall for that [so to speak]. Something he wanted to do, but it never happened, was "create a post-race social atmosphere on the outside of the track. Where people enjoyed a bottle of wine before going home", and he then got up to get another glass of Warsteiner beer [I know he drank at least two] before, "driving back to Leicestershire..."
Donington will always have a place in my heart, had a day with the Jim Russell school back in '91. Was also stood by the Old Hairpin when Nige binned it into the bridge in '93, what a day that was! There's some excellent footage of the pre-war circuit on BBC's "The Power and the Glory" series though I suspect that's only on VHS (I still have a copy). And yes, I too miss Bridge corner..
As I said in my comment on the Senna video, I liked this proposed layout. I don't miss bridge corner for f1 in the current Silverstone layout. I do think they could have kept it as a short circuit/lower formulas/testing/track day circuit though.
My mate Lee Coombs helped raise the plight of Donington Park into the media at that time through his ‘Save Donington’ campaign. What started out as a small Facebook group grew into something really amazing!
It was an interesting proposal and back in the day I was really quite keen - I've never loved Silverstone as I have most of our other UK circuits. With the benefit of real life experience I would have real concerns about modifying Coppice as it may be one of the trickiest corners in UK motorsport. I have never, ever driven through Coppice and thought "yes, that's as good as can be done" - fantastic, old school corner. The loss of F1 at Donington I do not care about either way. I am profoundly glad that Donington was saved after this failed redesign - it would have been a tragedy for no one to step forward and Donington Park be turned into another industrial estate. I don't think people realise just how close we were to losing such a fantastic, iconic circuit, and I do not think we will ever see another purpose-built race circuit built in the UK in our lifetimes. We need to take care of the ones we have, and UK motorsport is incalculably better for it still being on our calendars. Superb circuit.
The proposed layout was created on rF1. There was a sim rig in the entrance to the museum. As I said on a previous video, I hated the infield and the change to Coppice.
I was just about to post this, im local to donno and remember the sim in the museum. Bah the wheatcroft collection was awesome. now we have a crappy bike shop
It was definitely made in a Sim. On the website for the redesign there was a video of a F1 car doing a lap of the new layout. The elevation changes of the new infield made it more interesting than just what was on paper.
They had some crazy ideas about how a British GP at Donington would be organised. Craziest of these was the proposal that East Midlands Airport would close over the GP period and be used to provide a car park for spectators, who would then be ferried to and from the circuit by a fleet of buses. Thankfully, Kevin Wheatcroft rescued the circuit from such lunacy and repaired the physical damage these 'entrepreneurs' did with their half-ar*ed excavations for F1 'improvements'. More recently Kevin has placed the day to day running of Donington in the capable hands of Jonathan Palmer's Motor Sport Vision company
I have vague memories during the Bernie-Silverstone wars that there were also plans to revamp Brands so it could host the British GP again. I seem to recall a map published in Autosport with the pit straight moved between Surtees and Hawthorns.
@@summerfarmestates and there's houses just yards away from the circuit, etc. Moaning idiot locals buy a house next to a racing circuit then complain about the noise.
I didn't realize that the Silverstone upgrades are widely hated. They've actually led to some good racing since the current layout was introduced. The death of Bridge Corner is disappointing though, since BSB & BTCC use the underwhelming National Circuit. The GP layout is also too long for MotoGP
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I was very excited for this to happen! It would’ve turned Donington Park into a world class racing circuit, but the whole thing ended up with Silverstone getting chopped up for no good reason. If only they’d done the track extensions first, then all the fancy bits later… And in Silverstone’s case, just keep the old-layout active. It’s not that hard…
The new layout has consistently produced some decent action. I’m all for it. Silverstone had four corners replaced with four corners. The properly good stuff was left as it was.
The Silverstone modifications were due to them not thinking Donington was a done deal and F1 would come back. So they modified the track for MotoGP and Superbikes the former coming back in 2010.
@@AidanMillward yeah, but it lost some of its charm to improve "the show" For instance COTA was designed 100% for show, and it delivers on that… but it has 0 identity of an American motor-racing circuit.
My family lived over the road and can remember it being used for vehicle storage after the war and watching bombers being moved to dispersal around the track and village. We have so many photos of it pre and post war. Wheatcroft has moved his military collection from Donnington recently.
I'm more into bikes and I'm glad that Donington remained unchanged and Silverstone was heavily upgraded. The new first sector at Silverstone is perfect for motorcycle racing whereas Bridge corner wasn't, and Donington has the perfect flow for bikes.
When I did a track day experience at Donnington around the time they had been chosen to host the British GP again, they had a simulator setup in the track store allowing you to drive the proposed F1 upgraded track - I don't know what program it was being run in, but it was a great track to drive. 😉
I seem to recall that the Donington Park redesign was by Herman Tilke. At the time, some of the track plans could be downloaded off the Internet. I think they are somewhere on the hard drive of my computer. I was at the track last weekend to watch the racing and someone was asking me about the Dunlop bridge, which is no more. It was a shame that the bridge as well as Redgate Lodge were casualties of the aborted track revamp. I am pleased that the track was restored back to how it was and enjoyed a couple of track days there in 2022. It can be quite slippy when wet or even damp though! Regarding Silverstone, I think it's a shame that they got rid of Bridge Corner. If it had been kept, that could have meant that there could have been a "heritage circuit" layout to add to the GP, National, Stowe, etc.
I remember all this happening, I seem to remember a video being released of the potential layout with what was described as the steepest hill in f1 being added
I worked on the feasibility study for the circuit redesign, new facilities and hospitality packages. Although the traditional Donington layout is brilliant, the new additions to the circuit would've been great. The new section in place of the current start/finish line would've had a similar (or possibly greater) elevation shift than the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. When you stood on the point where they were going to redirect the track, the thought of F1 cars sweeping through such a drastic elevation change in front of a stunning clubhouse was really exciting. Sadly the plans were just too ambitious and it was impossible to secure the required funding, which relied on huge corporate sales of 10-year debentures that there just wasn't/isn't an appetite for. Still, I got a guided tour of the circuit and museum out of it, plus a couple of hot laps in a Mini Cooper driven by the head of the racing school!
I was at Donnington the day before the groundwork began on the 'New' GP circuit. There were some motorcycles going round iirc. I was there as a guest for the launch of the Connex 5000 3d printer. We had a tour of the Donnington collection and timed laps on a simulator which was running the soon to be constructed layout. I believe this was running on rFactor. It certainly looked and felt like it from the F1 cockpit they had it set up in . I set the fastest time of the day and won some goodies. I'm actually on the official launch video which used to be on UA-cam somewhere if you can be arsed to look for it. The new section on the infield had a massive gradient on it as swooped down towards Starkies and then a tricky left hander that brought you back up to the current.start/finish straight. The new section felt a lot like the Tilke circuits. High fences and an almost street circuit feel but for the runoffs. I found the Melbourne hairpin and the new bottom left hander very tricky. But then again I did spin a Formula Ford once at the Melbourne hairpin on a track day so I guess it was pretty accurate 😂í
I too would love to see the ‘what-of’ layout in sim, I’ve always thought about it since the announcement. I am glad it never went ahead as donington is and always has been my favourite UK track. Onto Silverstone and the old layout. The thing that annoys me the most is that the old layout is still there! And it would be so straightforward to reinstate it, even with a short run off at the Hamilton straight to turn left, maybe just reprofile it into a faster sweeper into the bridge section. But I’ve been there and the circuit is still intact and it could definitely be used with minimal changes.
I’m in the ‘annoyed bridge has gone’ camp! I’m not sure this plan would have worked at Donington, I’ve been to a lot of UK circuits and although it’s closer to F1 ready than a lot of them, it’s still way off the mark for runoff areas compared to Silverstone. I don’t think there’s enough space for them to have made the necessary safety improvements. The circuit layout changes were certainly possible but even with that I don’t think they could have made it work. I’m still bitter about the Grand Prix collection being binned too, that was the best thing about the place.
Having watched gt and btcc racing at Donington for years me and my mate (fans of f1 since early 90s) laughed when we seen the plans and heard of what the plans for changing the circuit were. There was never in a million years gonna be the funding for it. The facilities would have need a mega overhaul and I couldn't see them adding all the grandstands needed to get the kinda crowds Silverstone enjoys. It was pure fantasy
I remember Bernie slagging off Silverstone in 06 not long before I went to the Brazilian GP That year. Awesome Atmosphere. Now I don't know what the facilities are like now but in 06 me & some mates were in the grandstand near the end of the pitlane could just about see the Toro Rosso & Super Aguri garages. The Grandstand itself worse than a 4th Division football ground in the 80s & the parking was miles away on foot yet to my admittedly limited knowledge I'd never heard Bernie slag interlagos off. I mean the toilets were porter potties that looked like the singing Sh*t monster from Conkers Bad Fur Day!
I think part of it was that Bernie just didn't like the British Racing Drivers' Club. They weren't his sort of business men and also there was no government money so investment vs. return was always an issue.
Bridge was an epic corner. the ballsiest drivers would let the bottom of the hill at corner entry compress the suspension so they could flat foot it just that little bit longer before the slowest part of the track
I was all for donny taking over the British GP at the time. In hindsight I'm super happy it stayed at Silverstone even despite the abysmal prices for anything there.
Great video. One thing Donington did lose was its dunlop Bridge which never returned. Believe I read somewhere Chris Evans bought it. I think it still would of kept its character even if the changes did happen. In the case of the layout changes at Silverstone wasn't that down to the fact Silverstone poached motogp away in retaliation of f1 going to Donington at it was dorna demanding they change not from anyone at f1 or the fia.
ive wanted to see that upgrade happen still today. I think it adds a bit more passing oppurtunities and fits Doningtons chararcter. But not replace the GP at Silverstone, that can never happen
Some corner numbers/names and a flow direction on your maps would be a useful aid to help visualise what you're talking about. I recognise the names of a lot of the corners of various circuits around the world but I certainly don't have a photographic memory for where they are all situated and having to flick back and forth to look at a seperate map makes viewing difficult. Thanks
In the f1 yearbook of f1 the carlton or itv guide book there is a silverstone update for 2003 would of have a fast chicane at abbey 90 degree corner linking with priory that fate of bridge was settled then
Thinking about the parking situation: Aiden, you should do a video on the infields of American race tracks. Especially at NASCAR events, these weekends are a mixture of circus, horseshoe tournaments, all out drunkenness, and good-natured arguments about past and present drivers. As I am now a middle-aged clergyman, it is probably best that I choose grandstand seats. But I do still miss those ‘Sodom and Gomorrah’ days!😂
So, as a music fan I kind of have split thoughts about this whole period. I go to Download every year, 2004 was my first and haven't missed a year since. One of the first things that was changed before the money dried up was reprofiling of the infield... They essentially destroyed the area Download (and Monsters of Rock before it) was held. This meant that the festival site had to move, meaning an absolute mission from the campsite to the arena... But on the flip side, it's now almost 3 times bigger than it used to be. It's just a shame that the history of the original site was lost in the pursuit of something that wasn't likely to ever actually happen...
Aidan, did you ever do a clip on Road America being able to do a F1 race? A real nice track for drivers and fans. If it could ever do a F1 race, well, I have no idea. The infrastructure changes required would prolly destroy the facility.
yep, we live only 20 mins away but i did realised until the BSB testing a few weeks back of how much tarmac there is for parking, shame MSV don't try and add things to the circuit like the old bridges ect
Always felt it was a no-go. Laughed when I first heard the news. Traffic infrastructure just wasn't there. It's still bad now getting in tot he BTCC races.
Just a big shame the tracks lost its character aesthetic with no more Dunlop driving to the future bridge on Starkey's straight , the spitfire on the crainers curves and the bridge going over old hairpin to McLean's so it all looks to empty now , also the tight goddard chicane on last corner has gone for less tighter great overtakes . There is an interesting story about a famous celebrity buying the Dunlop bridge cheap and not realising how big it was for his back garden untill delivery day !
Regarding Silverstone, I don't mind the loss of Bridge so much as I hate the Village/Loop combination, although the new entrance to Brooklands is excellent. I think I'd feel the same way about Donington, the new infield section would just feel awkward compared to the existing track.
Still pains me to this day that the F1 museum is no longer there, I visited multiple times a year just to look at F1 cars for a few hours. To be fair I only lived five miles away so that helped!
"A new layout at Ain-Diab near Casablanca was made ready for the 1957 Moroccan Grand Prix Formula One race which, although not counting toward the World Championship, attracted a world-class field. The race was won by Jean Behra for Maserati."
Pretty curious how the ‘planned’ upgrade would have been in games, even if just GeneRally (can still be made, I just suck balls at it)…I never stopped playing that game. This (upgrade/remake) also including the red bits, offering separate lay-outs.
As a regular visitor to donny we can't work out where the new pits would have been as the existing ones would not have been big enough for F1. Any other plans??
As a train driver I can only imagine the carnage as thousands of race fans attempt to use the train as a way of getting to Donington. They're rammed enough at the best of times and as weekends are not governed by the same regulations set out in the passengers charter or whatever its called these days, you wouldn't be seeing any extra services or even extra sets (to make an existing train bigger) put on. And you just know that Grand Prix weekend would be subjected to "engineering work".
4:20 - Not a critique on your commentary but rather the comments of Ecclestone and Mosley. How the heck do they figure Silverstone wasn't up to current F1 standards when freakin' MONACO of all places gets to be grandfathered for all eternity? I'm not a fan of all the new Tilke tracks or heading to the Middle East for money races, but Monaco is equally a waste of time when great legacy tracks like Hockenheim/Nurburgring would be great to see again.
Just to clarify you said people are upset bridge at Silverstone is gone technically its not its actually still there just not used anymore not a dig just a clarification
Thanks Aiden, for a few reasons. First of all, confirming that the 'hairpin/old hairpin' was just a terrible piece of corner naming. Making it clearer than I'd seen before what the changes were going to be. And lastly, just for another great video. I was super stoked about the prospect of F1 going back to Donington. I don't know if that was from watching videos of '93, the fact it was one of my favourite tracks on TOCA or from seeing the actual racing in the BTCC but I've just always liked it. Or maybe I hadn't forgiven Silverstone for breaking my hero's leg (I know it wasn't the track's fault). Going off piste, F1 needs to shrink their cars, not so they can go for some of our national circuits - that ship isn't turning around - just so we can have the best of both worlds... all the tech to provide closer racing than in the 90s but nimble, possibly twitchy, shorter wheelbase cars that can dance
I'm sad that the Donnington Bid fell through. I do believe they were led on, but they sold their grand prix collection to try and get the funds together, and with that sold any interest I had of visiting Donnington Park.
There is actually a couple of videos out there which used rfactor to show off the 2010 Donington layout. Video 1: ua-cam.com/video/XSVzpS03Ees/v-deo.html Video 2: ua-cam.com/video/uIQK8Sm-UmU/v-deo.html Video 3: ua-cam.com/video/bZZ6JYXtY0I/v-deo.html
I have an idea,, F1 can race on normal circuits. They race on a Gokart track in Monaco as well as other unsuitable tracks. Personally I feel most circuits are better off without them.
Regarding Silverstone, I don't hate the new layout, but they just changed the wrong bit, in my opinion. They should have just reprofiled the Abbey chicane to make it a faster left-right flick, kept Bridge, made Priory a tight right hander similar to Village instead of a left, and had a Malaysia style straight-hairpin-straight back towards Brooklands and Luffield. That way, you only lose the corners nobody really cared about, and the overall effect of lengthening the circuit and moving the pit complex stays the same, while keeping the character (and all the best bits) of the 97-09 layout.
One of Donington’s biggest events hosted was the British Grand Prix ( MotoGP ) from like 1987 - 2009. Real motorsport enthusiasts enjoy 2 wheels or at least have a continuous acknowledgment for it. You decided to give us a Donington history lesson, so why miss that out when you’re as good as you are at what you do for us on here!
It's a real shame that Bernies 'I think this isn't good enough' bit he went through from 06-08 ruined Silverstones layout for no real reason, nearly wiped Donington Park off the map for good and quite likely had a hand in the death of Tom Wheatcroft who at the time was quite ill and sadly never saw the place re-open in 2010. All these tracks really required for the time was changes to paddock and pit space, and maybe some runoff updates. There was no real need for both tracks to receive such frankly awful updates to the track layout, and Donington would have likely not lasted long anyway with the constantly changing Grade 1 rules if you look at how close the barriers would have been to the track. But then again, Zandvoort gets away with it and Fiorano is somehow grade 1, so who knows Rather amusingly, Rockingham would have been the most appropriate venue to shove F1 towards as a fuck you to Silverstone, I wonder why Bernie didn't push that option any further...
@@AidanMillward It kinda was. I don't think anyone would say the Village and loop corners were necessary at all. As someone who drives it quite regularly the new section still feels like 3 corners from an entirely different track slapped in the middle of a layout that has a totally different feel. The only real thing that the track needed was upgrades to the camping/parking areas and the Wing should have been stuck where the original pit section is, seeing as the classic paddock area is twice the size of the new fancy F1 designated build. It's one of the major reasons the BTCC round on the International layout never happened
a shame tho. living only 20 mins away, i get how they have BTCC and BSC/MotoGP and the historic events but it feels like they could do a lot more in a sense that sometimes it feels a bit dull and flat going to the smaller events
I remember this... F1 going back to Donington was never really gonna happen. Back then I knew Silverstone will still host F1 and it's still hosting the British GP.
I have fond memories of going to the Transatlantic Challenge at Easter in 1986 with a load of mates. It was obviously just after the new bit was built, and we camped in the woods atop the hill. It was pretty cold when we arrived and I had the foresight to bring two massive bean bags and a quilt to sleep on in my tent. As soon as we set up it snowed. Tahnkfully we made a massive fire in the centre of where we camped and some Dutch nutters next to us had a chainsaw and summarily started pulling trees down. We were alright for firewood and I was snug all weekend. For many though it was bloody miserably cold. It was truly a great weekend otherwise as the raving was great and we had a fantastic time.
MotoGP should race here. Driven it and its a great circuit. It annoys me how Silverstone gets all the major racing, when we have other cool tracks. F1 calendar would also benefit from more variety year on year. If they did a "European GP" again, it would open up opportunities for Donington Park, Jerez, and other such circuits
Have you thought about modern cars being safe enough for original track layouts? Not necessarily if it would be better to go to og layouts, just safe enough. Imo modern LMP1 is safe enough for a LeMans start and running without the chicanes, F1 is safe enough for Monza without the chicanes and oval, and safe for OG Silverstone. Barcelona just got rid of their last chicane and went to the original layout. Thoughts?
Fun fact- That picture of the track with all the construction work going on was during the period they were trying to get the track ready for the F1, but they ran out of cash and it was sat like it for some time, so no racing could go ahead. Almost ended the track for good.
Blame the 2008 financial crisis for that.
The only race that happened was a Skoda yeti vs a Ferrari! If you know you know
@@Ayresii1995 One of TG's darkest moments!
Weren't they also planning on building a 'track day' hotel of some sort that let you drive straight out onto the circuit?
They didnt run out of cash - Bernie and co made a demand for an insane amount of money up front, after the deal had been done.
Almost lost the circuit altogether because of it
It was a stitch up. It was all about leverage. Bernie knew he could screw more money out of Silverstone, and used Donington as the stick. I firmly believe there was no intention to ever actually go there, and it was regrettable Donington's ownership was led on as such.
That was a question I was about to ask. I too think it was more about forcing Silverstone to up its game.
The only "what if" circuit i've actually liked in sin racing is the Lime Rock Mountain circuit. What a beautiful track, it's a shame it was never built.
Whilst Silverstone and Brands Hatch get all the attention, as a driver's circuit I think Donny is the best circuit we have.
I always felt Bernie just used the situation to get Silverstone to move towards what he wanted and Donnington was never going to get full F1 status.
Need to get the Dunlop bridge and the spitfire back. They were iconic parts of the circuits character
Biggest shame was the loss of the museum, I was lucky enough to get there before it closed, but didn't get to see everything so always wanted to go back again
I've only been to Donington once but didn't have time to see the museum. That's OK I thought I'll check it out next time. Not been back and gutted I never got to see the museum :(
I was lucky enough to visit it twice. It was a wonderful place, packed with interesting and historic racing cars, but on both occasions (midweek) it was almost empty. I managed to take some fantastic photographs though.
I lived 10 miles away on Fridays on school days we could hear cars and bikes practice mu dad worked for DHL at the time we went every weekend seen the museum many times its the only thing I miss about living in Derby
@@aarondavies8486 i live barely over a mile away right now, it's great to still be able to hear them
You're spot on about the public transport not working. Imagine having 150,000 fans there and busing them in each day to the circuit. It's chaos when BTCC is there with 10-20k fans and takes 2-3 hours to get out of the circuit. There would've had to have been a massive upgrade of the road infrastructure round there too for this to even stand a chance of working, which to my knowledge was never in the pipeline.
If the traffic wouldve been anything like how it is during download, id hope theyd upgrade the roads nearby. It took hours to get back to donington if you went out for the day
yeah. public transport in Leicestershire is almost completely non-existent. in fact, Leicester is officially the UK's worst-connected city by rail. plus the buses are under constant threat of being cut completely
Tom Wheatcroft is one of my business heroes. I once read a quote of his that went, "Always leave a bit in the deal for the other bloke. Then he'll always come back and do business with you. "
At the Silverstone DTM race, he told me, "I'm just a simple builder", with a wink. That man was very cunning. All the trees that disappeared - even though Leicestershire Council did not approve it - were because he challenged them to give him a signed assurance that none of them would cause injury to a spectator. Of course, armed with that, anyone injured climbing a tree could sue the council, and they weren't going to fall for that [so to speak]. Something he wanted to do, but it never happened, was "create a post-race social atmosphere on the outside of the track. Where people enjoyed a bottle of wine before going home", and he then got up to get another glass of Warsteiner beer [I know he drank at least two] before, "driving back to Leicestershire..."
Donington is an all time favorite track of mine. Amazing flow
I've been to Donington a few times and MSV are doing a good job running the place.
I’m pissed about 130 r. One of the scariest most exhilarating to watch corners in motorsport originally but it’s now a shell of what it was
Donington will always have a place in my heart, had a day with the Jim Russell school back in '91. Was also stood by the Old Hairpin when Nige binned it into the bridge in '93, what a day that was! There's some excellent footage of the pre-war circuit on BBC's "The Power and the Glory" series though I suspect that's only on VHS (I still have a copy).
And yes, I too miss Bridge corner..
As I said in my comment on the Senna video, I liked this proposed layout. I don't miss bridge corner for f1 in the current Silverstone layout. I do think they could have kept it as a short circuit/lower formulas/testing/track day circuit though.
My mate Lee Coombs helped raise the plight of Donington Park into the media at that time through his ‘Save Donington’ campaign. What started out as a small Facebook group grew into something really amazing!
Did such a good job they named a corner after him.... At Spa😅
@@mattshiz he has always claimed that 😂
It was an interesting proposal and back in the day I was really quite keen - I've never loved Silverstone as I have most of our other UK circuits. With the benefit of real life experience I would have real concerns about modifying Coppice as it may be one of the trickiest corners in UK motorsport. I have never, ever driven through Coppice and thought "yes, that's as good as can be done" - fantastic, old school corner.
The loss of F1 at Donington I do not care about either way. I am profoundly glad that Donington was saved after this failed redesign - it would have been a tragedy for no one to step forward and Donington Park be turned into another industrial estate. I don't think people realise just how close we were to losing such a fantastic, iconic circuit, and I do not think we will ever see another purpose-built race circuit built in the UK in our lifetimes. We need to take care of the ones we have, and UK motorsport is incalculably better for it still being on our calendars. Superb circuit.
I often think about the what if video you did on Watkins Glen. God I’d love to see F1 return there someday..
2009... Best thing that happened at Donnington that year, was the return of Faith No More at the Download Festival. ;)
Lol
The proposed layout was created on rF1. There was a sim rig in the entrance to the museum.
As I said on a previous video, I hated the infield and the change to Coppice.
I was just about to post this, im local to donno and remember the sim in the museum. Bah the wheatcroft collection was awesome. now we have a crappy bike shop
It was definitely made in a Sim. On the website for the redesign there was a video of a F1 car doing a lap of the new layout. The elevation changes of the new infield made it more interesting than just what was on paper.
They had some crazy ideas about how a British GP at Donington would be organised. Craziest of these was the proposal that East Midlands Airport would close over the GP period and be used to provide a car park for spectators, who would then be ferried to and from the circuit by a fleet of buses. Thankfully, Kevin Wheatcroft rescued the circuit from such lunacy and repaired the physical damage these 'entrepreneurs' did with their half-ar*ed excavations for F1 'improvements'. More recently Kevin has placed the day to day running of Donington in the capable hands of Jonathan Palmer's Motor Sport Vision company
I have vague memories during the Bernie-Silverstone wars that there were also plans to revamp Brands so it could host the British GP again. I seem to recall a map published in Autosport with the pit straight moved between Surtees and Hawthorns.
Kent council would never sanction the amount of trees needing cutting down to make it safe
@@summerfarmestates and there's houses just yards away from the circuit, etc.
Moaning idiot locals buy a house next to a racing circuit then complain about the noise.
I didn't realize that the Silverstone upgrades are widely hated. They've actually led to some good racing since the current layout was introduced. The death of Bridge Corner is disappointing though, since BSB & BTCC use the underwhelming National Circuit. The GP layout is also too long for MotoGP
You got me hooked with the intro music, once I've heard it I was really hoping for a good content. I'm going to check out your channel after posting this comment. Thank's man, cheers. Pozdro666
its so odd seeing satellite photos of Donington with grass. im so used to seeing it during Download time as a swamp
video about the circuit of wales could be an interesting topic
I was very excited for this to happen! It would’ve turned Donington Park into a world class racing circuit, but the whole thing ended up with Silverstone getting chopped up for no good reason.
If only they’d done the track extensions first, then all the fancy bits later… And in Silverstone’s case, just keep the old-layout active. It’s not that hard…
The new layout has consistently produced some decent action. I’m all for it.
Silverstone had four corners replaced with four corners. The properly good stuff was left as it was.
The Silverstone modifications were due to them not thinking Donington was a done deal and F1 would come back.
So they modified the track for MotoGP and Superbikes the former coming back in 2010.
@@AidanMillward yeah, but it lost some of its charm to improve "the show"
For instance COTA was designed 100% for show, and it delivers on that… but it has 0 identity of an American motor-racing circuit.
@K Ben24 better we get a purpose built grade 1 circuit then some place like Road Atlanta getting gutted.
My family lived over the road and can remember it being used for vehicle storage after the war and watching bombers being moved to dispersal around the track and village. We have so many photos of it pre and post war.
Wheatcroft has moved his military collection from Donnington recently.
I'm more into bikes and I'm glad that Donington remained unchanged and Silverstone was heavily upgraded. The new first sector at Silverstone is perfect for motorcycle racing whereas Bridge corner wasn't, and Donington has the perfect flow for bikes.
When I did a track day experience at Donnington around the time they had been chosen to host the British GP again, they had a simulator setup in the track store allowing you to drive the proposed F1 upgraded track - I don't know what program it was being run in, but it was a great track to drive. 😉
Tracks with history are priceless, too bad they had to change the circuit a couple times. How it goes.
I seem to recall that the Donington Park redesign was by Herman Tilke. At the time, some of the track plans could be downloaded off the Internet. I think they are somewhere on the hard drive of my computer.
I was at the track last weekend to watch the racing and someone was asking me about the Dunlop bridge, which is no more. It was a shame that the bridge as well as Redgate Lodge were casualties of the aborted track revamp.
I am pleased that the track was restored back to how it was and enjoyed a couple of track days there in 2022. It can be quite slippy when wet or even damp though!
Regarding Silverstone, I think it's a shame that they got rid of Bridge Corner. If it had been kept, that could have meant that there could have been a "heritage circuit" layout to add to the GP, National, Stowe, etc.
I remember all this happening, I seem to remember a video being released of the potential layout with what was described as the steepest hill in f1 being added
I worked on the feasibility study for the circuit redesign, new facilities and hospitality packages. Although the traditional Donington layout is brilliant, the new additions to the circuit would've been great. The new section in place of the current start/finish line would've had a similar (or possibly greater) elevation shift than the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. When you stood on the point where they were going to redirect the track, the thought of F1 cars sweeping through such a drastic elevation change in front of a stunning clubhouse was really exciting. Sadly the plans were just too ambitious and it was impossible to secure the required funding, which relied on huge corporate sales of 10-year debentures that there just wasn't/isn't an appetite for. Still, I got a guided tour of the circuit and museum out of it, plus a couple of hot laps in a Mini Cooper driven by the head of the racing school!
I would’ve loved to see this, as I live extremely close to donington park. But I’m so torn, because, well, Silverstone’s Silverstone after all
Silverstone is a fantastic place. To have been on the track where my racing heroes have been at some point was mega.
I was at Donnington the day before the groundwork began on the 'New' GP circuit. There were some motorcycles going round iirc.
I was there as a guest for the launch of the Connex 5000 3d printer. We had a tour of the Donnington collection and timed laps on a simulator which was running the soon to be constructed layout. I believe this was running on rFactor. It certainly looked and felt like it from the F1 cockpit they had it set up in .
I set the fastest time of the day and won some goodies. I'm actually on the official launch video which used to be on UA-cam somewhere if you can be arsed to look for it.
The new section on the infield had a massive gradient on it as swooped down towards Starkies and then a tricky left hander that brought you back up to the current.start/finish straight.
The new section felt a lot like the Tilke circuits. High fences and an almost street circuit feel but for the runoffs.
I found the Melbourne hairpin and the new bottom left hander very tricky. But then again I did spin a Formula Ford once at the Melbourne hairpin on a track day so I guess it was pretty accurate 😂í
awesome video. Would certaily have been interesting to see what would have happened
I too would love to see the ‘what-of’ layout in sim, I’ve always thought about it since the announcement. I am glad it never went ahead as donington is and always has been my favourite UK track.
Onto Silverstone and the old layout. The thing that annoys me the most is that the old layout is still there! And it would be so straightforward to reinstate it, even with a short run off at the Hamilton straight to turn left, maybe just reprofile it into a faster sweeper into the bridge section. But I’ve been there and the circuit is still intact and it could definitely be used with minimal changes.
I’m in the ‘annoyed bridge has gone’ camp!
I’m not sure this plan would have worked at Donington, I’ve been to a lot of UK circuits and although it’s closer to F1 ready than a lot of them, it’s still way off the mark for runoff areas compared to Silverstone. I don’t think there’s enough space for them to have made the necessary safety improvements.
The circuit layout changes were certainly possible but even with that I don’t think they could have made it work.
I’m still bitter about the Grand Prix collection being binned too, that was the best thing about the place.
Having watched gt and btcc racing at Donington for years me and my mate (fans of f1 since early 90s) laughed when we seen the plans and heard of what the plans for changing the circuit were. There was never in a million years gonna be the funding for it. The facilities would have need a mega overhaul and I couldn't see them adding all the grandstands needed to get the kinda crowds Silverstone enjoys.
It was pure fantasy
If Donington is too hard to pass, what are they doing at Monaco?
Partying on yachts.
I find it funny how people want tracks “upgraded” so F1 can race there, when in reality they just completely change the character and ruin the track.
I remember Bernie slagging off Silverstone in 06 not long before I went to the Brazilian GP That year.
Awesome Atmosphere.
Now I don't know what the facilities are like now but in 06 me & some mates were in the grandstand near the end of the pitlane could just about see the Toro Rosso & Super Aguri garages.
The Grandstand itself worse than a 4th Division football ground in the 80s & the parking was miles away on foot yet to my admittedly limited knowledge I'd never heard Bernie slag interlagos off.
I mean the toilets were porter potties that looked like the singing Sh*t monster from Conkers Bad Fur Day!
I think part of it was that Bernie just didn't like the British Racing Drivers' Club. They weren't his sort of business men and also there was no government money so investment vs. return was always an issue.
I think they should have put a chicane at old hairpin and Starkey's Bridge to liven it up, a proper refresh of the layout if you will.
Bridge was an epic corner. the ballsiest drivers would let the bottom of the hill at corner entry compress the suspension so they could flat foot it just that little bit longer before the slowest part of the track
I was all for donny taking over the British GP at the time.
In hindsight I'm super happy it stayed at Silverstone even despite the abysmal prices for anything there.
Great video. One thing Donington did lose was its dunlop Bridge which never returned. Believe I read somewhere Chris Evans bought it. I think it still would of kept its character even if the changes did happen. In the case of the layout changes at Silverstone wasn't that down to the fact Silverstone poached motogp away in retaliation of f1 going to Donington at it was dorna demanding they change not from anyone at f1 or the fia.
yes be brought it at a charity auction, think he was plastered so i don't think even wanted it
ive wanted to see that upgrade happen still today. I think it adds a bit more passing oppurtunities and fits Doningtons chararcter. But not replace the GP at Silverstone, that can never happen
Some corner numbers/names and a flow direction on your maps would be a useful aid to help visualise what you're talking about. I recognise the names of a lot of the corners of various circuits around the world but I certainly don't have a photographic memory for where they are all situated and having to flick back and forth to look at a seperate map makes viewing difficult.
Thanks
"engagement"
Loving your Videos!
In the f1 yearbook of f1 the carlton or itv guide book there is a silverstone update for 2003 would of have a fast chicane at abbey 90 degree corner linking with priory that fate of bridge was settled then
Legend for the overlay where did you get the pictures of the old track?? I want them to frame and put on the front room wall
DVL almost killed Donington Park off
Thinking about the parking situation: Aiden, you should do a video on the infields of American race tracks.
Especially at NASCAR events, these weekends are a mixture of circus, horseshoe tournaments, all out drunkenness, and good-natured arguments about past and present drivers.
As I am now a middle-aged clergyman, it is probably best that I choose grandstand seats. But I do still miss those ‘Sodom and Gomorrah’ days!😂
So, as a music fan I kind of have split thoughts about this whole period.
I go to Download every year, 2004 was my first and haven't missed a year since. One of the first things that was changed before the money dried up was reprofiling of the infield... They essentially destroyed the area Download (and Monsters of Rock before it) was held.
This meant that the festival site had to move, meaning an absolute mission from the campsite to the arena... But on the flip side, it's now almost 3 times bigger than it used to be.
It's just a shame that the history of the original site was lost in the pursuit of something that wasn't likely to ever actually happen...
What was that q50 you were driving , great video but my mind immediately went to how do I make my Q like that 😂
Aidan, did you ever do a clip on Road America being able to do a F1 race? A real nice track for drivers and fans. If it could ever do a F1 race, well, I have no idea. The infrastructure changes required would prolly destroy the facility.
I've been to the track before. Would have been cool to have these upgrades as it would have likely attracted more events
yep, we live only 20 mins away but i did realised until the BSB testing a few weeks back of how much tarmac there is for parking, shame MSV don't try and add things to the circuit like the old bridges ect
I think you are referring to the Walter Hayes Trophy held in Silverstone in November.
That’s the one.
Can you do the history of the TG track? It was originally a Lotus test track but became a track on TV
Always felt it was a no-go. Laughed when I first heard the news. Traffic infrastructure just wasn't there. It's still bad now getting in tot he BTCC races.
Simply Sausages British Formula One Grand Prix rolls off the tongue.
I love Donington in sim racing for all kinds of series but I can’t really imagine modern F1 cars there. They’re just too large.
Fucking hell, if parking was a concern at Silverstone cited to move the F1, it would have been absolute carnage at Donington
Just a big shame the tracks lost its character aesthetic with no more Dunlop driving to the future bridge on Starkey's straight , the spitfire on the crainers curves and the bridge going over old hairpin to McLean's so it all looks to empty now , also the tight goddard chicane on last corner has gone for less tighter great overtakes . There is an interesting story about a famous celebrity buying the Dunlop bridge cheap and not realising how big it was for his back garden untill delivery day !
Regarding Silverstone, I don't mind the loss of Bridge so much as I hate the Village/Loop combination, although the new entrance to Brooklands is excellent. I think I'd feel the same way about Donington, the new infield section would just feel awkward compared to the existing track.
Still pains me to this day that the F1 museum is no longer there, I visited multiple times a year just to look at F1 cars for a few hours. To be fair I only lived five miles away so that helped!
Oh…interested, I’ll watch even though I think I knew
you had to bring up bridge corner at silverstone, im still salty thats gone :(
"A new layout at Ain-Diab near Casablanca was made ready for the 1957 Moroccan Grand Prix Formula One race which, although not counting toward the World Championship, attracted a world-class field. The race was won by Jean Behra for Maserati."
Pretty curious how the ‘planned’ upgrade would have been in games, even if just GeneRally (can still be made, I just suck balls at it)…I never stopped playing that game. This (upgrade/remake) also including the red bits, offering separate lay-outs.
As a regular visitor to donny we can't work out where the new pits would have been as the existing ones would not have been big enough for F1. Any other plans??
New pits would have been between Coppice and the hairpin
This track just reminds me of TOCA on the PS1
As a train driver I can only imagine the carnage as thousands of race fans attempt to use the train as a way of getting to Donington. They're rammed enough at the best of times and as weekends are not governed by the same regulations set out in the passengers charter or whatever its called these days, you wouldn't be seeing any extra services or even extra sets (to make an existing train bigger) put on. And you just know that Grand Prix weekend would be subjected to "engineering work".
4:20 - Not a critique on your commentary but rather the comments of Ecclestone and Mosley. How the heck do they figure Silverstone wasn't up to current F1 standards when freakin' MONACO of all places gets to be grandfathered for all eternity? I'm not a fan of all the new Tilke tracks or heading to the Middle East for money races, but Monaco is equally a waste of time when great legacy tracks like Hockenheim/Nurburgring would be great to see again.
You'll be happy to hear they're going to start going to Spa on a bi-annual basis, starting in 2027...🤣 F1 is it's own worst enemy.
I've often wondered why the planned F1 layout is not in rFactor 2 or AC.
DVL almost irreparably ruined that circuit for good with their shenanigans. I remember watching it unfold at the time
I'm so glad this track never made it back onto the calendar. Herman Tilke would've completely butchered the layout
Just to clarify you said people are upset bridge at Silverstone is gone technically its not its actually still there just not used anymore not a dig just a clarification
Thanks Aiden, for a few reasons. First of all, confirming that the 'hairpin/old hairpin' was just a terrible piece of corner naming. Making it clearer than I'd seen before what the changes were going to be. And lastly, just for another great video.
I was super stoked about the prospect of F1 going back to Donington. I don't know if that was from watching videos of '93, the fact it was one of my favourite tracks on TOCA or from seeing the actual racing in the BTCC but I've just always liked it. Or maybe I hadn't forgiven Silverstone for breaking my hero's leg (I know it wasn't the track's fault).
Going off piste, F1 needs to shrink their cars, not so they can go for some of our national circuits - that ship isn't turning around - just so we can have the best of both worlds... all the tech to provide closer racing than in the 90s but nimble, possibly twitchy, shorter wheelbase cars that can dance
I'm sad that the Donnington Bid fell through. I do believe they were led on, but they sold their grand prix collection to try and get the funds together, and with that sold any interest I had of visiting Donnington Park.
Monsters of Rock/Download and motorbikes keep it as is what happened to F1 London street circuit?
There is actually a couple of videos out there which used rfactor to show off the 2010 Donington layout.
Video 1: ua-cam.com/video/XSVzpS03Ees/v-deo.html
Video 2: ua-cam.com/video/uIQK8Sm-UmU/v-deo.html
Video 3: ua-cam.com/video/bZZ6JYXtY0I/v-deo.html
There’s a 4th “park” - you missed Mallory Park my friend!!!
Imagine this Alternative 2010 f1 Layout as a mod for ac
Bridge Silverstone is best Silverstone
Never been able to decide if I prefer the GP or National layout of Donington, they’re both good
I have an idea,, F1 can race on normal circuits. They race on a Gokart track in Monaco as well as other unsuitable tracks.
Personally I feel most circuits are better off without them.
Regarding Silverstone, I don't hate the new layout, but they just changed the wrong bit, in my opinion.
They should have just reprofiled the Abbey chicane to make it a faster left-right flick, kept Bridge, made Priory a tight right hander similar to Village instead of a left, and had a Malaysia style straight-hairpin-straight back towards Brooklands and Luffield. That way, you only lose the corners nobody really cared about, and the overall effect of lengthening the circuit and moving the pit complex stays the same, while keeping the character (and all the best bits) of the 97-09 layout.
What about Mallory park?
One of Donington’s biggest events hosted was the British Grand Prix ( MotoGP ) from like 1987 - 2009. Real motorsport enthusiasts enjoy 2 wheels or at least have a continuous acknowledgment for it. You decided to give us a Donington history lesson, so why miss that out when you’re as good as you are at what you do for us on here!
he missed it out because this video is about F1. not motoGP.
@@Pobsworth history of Donington was clearly mentioned!
It's a real shame that Bernies 'I think this isn't good enough' bit he went through from 06-08 ruined Silverstones layout for no real reason, nearly wiped Donington Park off the map for good and quite likely had a hand in the death of Tom Wheatcroft who at the time was quite ill and sadly never saw the place re-open in 2010. All these tracks really required for the time was changes to paddock and pit space, and maybe some runoff updates. There was no real need for both tracks to receive such frankly awful updates to the track layout, and Donington would have likely not lasted long anyway with the constantly changing Grade 1 rules if you look at how close the barriers would have been to the track. But then again, Zandvoort gets away with it and Fiorano is somehow grade 1, so who knows
Rather amusingly, Rockingham would have been the most appropriate venue to shove F1 towards as a fuck you to Silverstone, I wonder why Bernie didn't push that option any further...
Silverstones layout wasn’t ruined. For the time it’s been in use it’s done exactly what it was designed to do.
@@AidanMillward It kinda was. I don't think anyone would say the Village and loop corners were necessary at all. As someone who drives it quite regularly the new section still feels like 3 corners from an entirely different track slapped in the middle of a layout that has a totally different feel. The only real thing that the track needed was upgrades to the camping/parking areas and the Wing should have been stuck where the original pit section is, seeing as the classic paddock area is twice the size of the new fancy F1 designated build. It's one of the major reasons the BTCC round on the International layout never happened
a shame tho. living only 20 mins away, i get how they have BTCC and BSC/MotoGP and the historic events but it feels like they could do a lot more in a sense that sometimes it feels a bit dull and flat going to the smaller events
We need better Spectating spots they certainly needs to be more Grandstands
I remember this... F1 going back to Donington was never really gonna happen. Back then I knew Silverstone will still host F1 and it's still hosting the British GP.
RIP Silverstone: 1991 - 2009 💔
They ruined it by adding maggots and beckets smh
I have fond memories of going to the Transatlantic Challenge at Easter in 1986 with a load of mates. It was obviously just after the new bit was built, and we camped in the woods atop the hill. It was pretty cold when we arrived and I had the foresight to bring two massive bean bags and a quilt to sleep on in my tent. As soon as we set up it snowed. Tahnkfully we made a massive fire in the centre of where we camped and some Dutch nutters next to us had a chainsaw and summarily started pulling trees down.
We were alright for firewood and I was snug all weekend. For many though it was bloody miserably cold.
It was truly a great weekend otherwise as the raving was great and we had a fantastic time.
Track upgrades can work..........as long as Hermann "long straight into a hairpin" Tilke isn't involved.
MotoGP should race here. Driven it and its a great circuit. It annoys me how Silverstone gets all the major racing, when we have other cool tracks. F1 calendar would also benefit from more variety year on year. If they did a "European GP" again, it would open up opportunities for Donington Park, Jerez, and other such circuits
Have you thought about modern cars being safe enough for original track layouts? Not necessarily if it would be better to go to og layouts, just safe enough. Imo modern LMP1 is safe enough for a LeMans start and running without the chicanes, F1 is safe enough for Monza without the chicanes and oval, and safe for OG Silverstone. Barcelona just got rid of their last chicane and went to the original layout. Thoughts?
What is the car @ 3:43?! It looks like an Infiniti Q50 (for us Americans). Would that make it a Skyline? It's BEAUTIFUL!! 😍😍😍
It’s a Q50
@@AidanMillward Thank you.