The land used to shake when the nauga herds were at their peek. Then man hunted them until they were almost extinct. Only the RV industry save them with conservative efforts. The years of imitation nauga caused the peeling problem. 😅
I was EXTREMELY lucky with my Tiffin 2016 31SA upholstery. I bought the coach as the second owner mind you. A year ago I emailed Tiffin Customer Service about the peeling problem. Both my captains chairs and dinette were starting to peel. Next thing... BOB TIFFIN calls me direct and says we are sending you new upholstery, all I have to do is install it (I'm handy so no problem there). I was speechless. I wont buy anything but a Tiffin :>) "Where ever I go, Tiffin goes"
I was at Tiffins 50TH anniversary in Wyoming. Bob and his wife were there. I was luck enough to talk BOB alone in the 50TH anniversary Allegro bus before he was swamped by people, great guy.
Well, don’t expect it going forward, Thor bought Tiffan and Thor acted like I had antique plates on my 2016 Thor Tuscany when I inquired about replacement skins. They couldn’t have cared less.
Finally, someone addressing the flaking RV furniture problem. I wondered what was causing it. I’ve seen so many frustrated owners. You could never rant too long on that problem. Thank you for covering it.
I retired from UPS after 31 years, we call that a pretrip inspection and we did one before we took off for the day and if I may say that a beautiful coach
That is the floor plan that I love! It just looks like a home instead of an RV. Thanks for showing these RV’s, it helps to know as much as possible in figuring out what I need to look for.
All the dark padded trim material in my Jayco was peeling. Thankfully we went with fabric for the seating. We ended up recovering the padded trim with vinyl from Walmart ourselves. Turned out great.
Beautiful coach but man, the upholstery. I hope Tiffin takes care of each and every one of these, if they don’t it will speak volumes about them as a company.
Our 2012 Forest River Georgetown was just starting to show a bit of peeling last season. This year it showed a bit more. It’s not bad, but when it gets bad I will have the front seats recovered. I hate to see lawyers get involved in anything, but this peeling material needs to be addressed! I’ve also seen some Fleetwood with the issue. The problem is everywhere.
Came across this video. Worked at rv dealers in the seventies. To me not much has changed as far as quality. Seen it all. Garbage in garbage out. To this day feel sorry for people that have been taken.
There is a company that is replacing the covers for a bunch of motorhomes in Iowa, not for free, it is people that worked at the factory that used to make the furniture and they have good material now.. Used to do fealer trades when I went to college, it was nice to get paid to drive. Be safe.
The woman that started the company used to work for Flexsteal (spelling intentional) and bought all the seat templates from them when they stopped supplying the RV industry (because of this peering seat disaster). You are out of luck if you have Villa junk.
True, the upholstery failure is an industry wide scandal. The flex steel chairs and sofa bed in my 2013 forest river were damaged and needed replacement by 2018 when I bought the coach. A check of the forest river forums will show that people were irate long before that. So why did the manufactures continue to include that junk in their coaches? Going into it, the seller gave me a generous accommodation. I went to an independent upholstery artist and stretched kid leather over everything. It looks so good I covered the doghouse and I had floor mats made of the same leather.
Thank you so much. We have a 2015 Tiffen 32SA with major flaking issues. So nice to know what the cause is. Might be easier to replace the captain chairs up front instead of recovering them. Thank you again.
I had the pleasure of delivering Workhorse and Ford Chassis to Tiffin in Red Bay Al. for about 6yrs. Very fine company. Don't know what they are like now after they sold.
Thanks for the video. Just a note that your title screen says Ultraleather is the problematic fabric, but in my research these manufacturers used Halo Leather or as your IRV2 screenshot shows UltraLux both which are bonded scraps of leather glued to the substrate. Ultraleather is a different and more expensive product that does not peel. If you reach out to a company like Brad and Hall, they’ve been using Ultraleather for 30 years and have not seen it fail.
What I have been able to piece together is that the manufacturer of the material that died like this was a company called Halo. They have since gone out of business (no surprise) and that left the furniture manufacturers and coach manufacturers on the hook for their junk. To be clear, this is not "pleather", it is vinyl. Pleather is a rip-off product that contains the lowest grade, bottom-grain leather bonded to (usually crappy) vinyl just so the manufacturer can say it's "leather". A vinyl product like this is a cloth material bonded to a vinyl product and has, for many years., been a very reliable product when done right. For example, Mercedes' MB TEX product which has a reputation for being as good or better than genuine leather in most situations and outlast leather in many situations (like when exposed to a lot of UV and a lot of flex). Knowing this does not really help though, you're still stuck either reupholstering or replacing your furniture if the manufacturer will no longer replace the material. So, like James said, be aware!
My 2015 Prime Time Crusader peeled the couch and theater seats really bad 2 years ago, so mad to see it happen. We covered them with Indian blankets for now. I’m in Gila Bend and every upholster around Az. knows about this issue and wants a fortune to recover them.
My 2011 Tiffin Breeze is shedding like crazy right now! Flexsteel really got a load of bad material for several years! I love the 36GH layout! Its probably a queen bed.
You see the same thing on the junk that Big Lots sells. The faux leather on their sectionals start peeling just like the furniture in the RV you show. Find them on craigslist by the dozens and they all look the same. Huge blotches of peeling fabric.
Hey Az Expert! Another great video! Also, I emailed you about getting an inspection done in Mesa. I used the email provided here under the contact. I'm sure you get tons of emails, just checking to make sure I was using the right email. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks! ~PhotoScott
Love the walk thru and this point on the furniture. Noticed you are using the Microflex Diamond Grip gloves, they are the best with that fingerprint, been using them for years!
Hey, new to the channel, great stuff. I saw a YT video on replacing TPO rooftop membrane. Maybe you can could have a DIY Course on sewing fabric/leather and re-covering furniture. List of sources for materials, and what to look for and recommendations for sewing machines, thread, and sewing needle type would be very helpful. I'm actually doing research on building my own 5th Wheel Toy Hauler (approx 44 feet long). Ever thought about doing something like that, choosing a trailer, then actual build. Kinda like building a tiny house, but more RV / 5th Wheel / Travel Trailer Style.
I always thought it was funny that la mesa RV was not in mesa, used to enjoy their shows at the Cardinals stadium, ps so glad I don't need DEF for our 2007 Alfa Gold. Greetings from Utah James,will be back in Apache Juction for the winter will stop by and say 👋 hello.
The only flaw in our 38 Forza was the driver and passenger seat peeling ....Winnebago wants $1,600 for the pair of replacement covers ...then you have to find an upholster to install them
I bought a 2012 Thor motor home in ~ 2014, furniture perfect, within a year flaking, bought a 2016 Forest River motorhome in ~ 2018, furniture perfect, within a year flaking. I've seen 2018 year owners complaining, same problem. I think the whole bunch of them besides the fabric producer have blame. RV owners, dealers got a big time expense hit on a shoddy product peddled for multiple years.
We had a full set of cat napper brand furniture and bought the extended warranty just in case it "delaminated" and found out that in almost 5 years, it started to shed the fake leather surface. The extended warranty said "we don't cover delamination" which was a waste... So, either buy fabric or leather, None of the fake leathers. YES, There should be a class action lawsuit against the fabric manufacturer...
Not a Beaver, but nice. Every time I see one of these, I think of Andrew Steele’s. Whoever gets his is going to get a smoking deal since he had just dumped 30K into that beautiful flooring before he traded it in.
On wheel bearing something I've always done into the tripis is get a baseline reading after 200 or 300 miles just and take hand h and touching all the wheel bearings... ((But be careful don't burn yourself on the disk or drums)).... Once you know YOUR rig only need to do this once a month or the start of a new trip ..... I'm just reminded to check the insides of the drums and disks for leaking hubs too..... Luke,like,👍
I bought a used 2013 Keystone Cougar 337FLS that looked to be in perfect condition BUT after several months my couches started to shed. At first I thought it was the dog claws but it was happening in places he wasn’t at. And since I have a dog and don’t plan on spending thousands to repair it, I’ve been trying to remove the fake “leather” and just have the fabric backing.
James you should have run the jacks down and got the wheels off the ground and checked the wheel bearings and steering components including the airbags..you cant tell anything unless you rotate the wheels off the ground even then the wheel bearings can be bad and steering components and suspension
Its a deal breaker for me, new or used. If it isn't real leather then it needs to be fabric. As a consumer, having no say in the manufacturing or sourcing of materials, it IS their fault. The manufacturer sets the specs and should confirm they are adhered too.
Upholstery...yep. My 2017 Thor Aria 3901 had the peeling fabric. Once it starts peeling, it cascades into complete disintegration in a matter of months. We spent $5,600 to completely reupholster the coach with high quality durable faux leather. Thor would ship us replacement pieces (at a cost) but they were covered with "the same material" that already failed. So that was not a solution.
Things I now notice about RVs after religiously watching your inspection videos: Rear radiators instead of side radiators, tire date codes, slide topper fabric, awning manufacturers, etc. I just looked at a 2006 Alfa Founders edition with about 14,000 miles on the original tires, date code 0905. The current owner doesn't seem to think it's a problem as there's no cracking but I'm more than a bit skeptical. The cheapest price I can find to replace them is $4000 installed if I proceed with the purchase, but at this point it isn't likely.
If you do buy it, set yourself a 60mph speed limit, and drive gently, until you can replace them ASAP. The 9th week of 2005 was a LONG time ago. Put 3 eye bolts though each of them, and sell them as tire swings "with lots of tread left".
James, we're in deep research mode, as we prepare to pull the trigger on a Class B+ RV. We're pretty interested in the Winnebago Navion Murphy bed, and the Leisure Travel Van Unity MB. Now, after watching all your Winnebago roof videos, I'm put off Navion. I've been researching how LTV attaches the roof, but haven't been able to find anything specific about the attachment. I watched your video of the inspection of Andrew Steele's LTV Unity roof, but all you mentioned was that the sealer in the channel was in good shape. Can you say something about how LTV attaches their roof? Is there potential for the same issues Winnebagos have? The last thing I want is to be driving at highway speeds and have a roof blow off. Thank you very much for your very helpful videos. I've learned tons of invaluable stuff. Please keep them coming.
I always recommend inspections but since they are so much smaller and the roof is not the same--the roof blowing off is not really an issue with these.
@Tim Michaels Not sure where you’re located here in Cal, but in SoCal we ended up getting ours out at Walt’s in Corona, or at a Camping Worst because no one had any anywhere including Amazon.
It's cheap-ass PU leather. As the older, quality name furniture manufacturers retired/sold out they were bought up by two - three schmuck companies. Pretty much the same as almost every other quality name company in the U.S. Anyway, they came up with some crap called PU Leather which is just shreds of leather and glue pressed into sheets and used to make something good enough to get out the door. If you search PU Leather you'll find never-ending horror stories of furniture falling apart in months, not years.
I disagree with you James, the RV manufacturers need to stand behind their products. I’m sure they made out on the pricing because Flexsteel and Villa chose to use cheap Chinese pleather. My RV has Thor written on it and not the name of the textile manufacturer. There needs to be a class action lawsuit against them even if it only yields me $5.
The lawyers will get a million or two, and consumers will get coupons for $5K off any purchase over $100K, or a coupon for $1000 off a set of new skins at some still-extremely-profitable price for the RV makers. What they should really do, is release free CAD files into the public domain, to let any upholsterer cut exact replacements, for each and every seat/cushion/etc. Instead, thousands of people will be paying thousands of upholsterers to fiddle around measuring and fitting replacement fabric/leather, often wasting material due to mistakes and/or quirks of each version of each piece of furniture.
That sounds like fun driving these motorhomes cross country for a job I used to drive semis cross country do you you need a driver I'm available as long as you don't have to have any special license because all I have is a driver's license this motorhome is really really nice
Those rear radiator coach’s are less expensive, but it’s just weird not being able to visually inspect the engine, without taking the closet floor cover off anyway. My previous 2003 Holiday Rambler Endeavor’s furniture looked really great when I sold her last year…so they (fabric manufacturers) can make quality, probably costs a bit more?
My 2019 Jayco Pinacle fifth wheel has this problem on my recliner went to claim warrenty they said they needed the numbers off tags low and behold the tags had been ripped off they new there was going be a claim so ripped the tags off the furniture so no numbers off the tags no warranty
Well the fabric issue is in fact a fabric issue. But the manufactuer of the coach was responsable for picking the product. Not Flexsteel, not Lambart or any othe furniture builder. Newmar, Tiffin and all the rest pick there fabric. I have had two brand new Newmar Dutch Stars and both had the same issue. Newmar replaced the fabric for any original owner. They had the issue as high up as London Aire and down to Bay Stars. It was their fault for picking this crap and then to make matters worse they continued to do so even after they knew they had the problem. There is no excuse.
I agree 100%, they should honor replacement of the material for at least ten years, heck the materials on my 2001 motorhome are still in good shape, it was pointless money savings of maybe a $500 from what I can see.
@@AZExpert Well James here is what I foumd out from within Newmar Corp. Don't know about any other company, just Newmar. It's funny that you mentioned $500. I suggest to the VP of Sales that they raise every one of the lines from Bay Star to King Aire $400 on the build invoice. We all know that $400 isn't going to keep anyone from buying one of these new. Then just use the real Ultra Leather, a Japannese product and the issue would go away. But that didn't happen. What did happn was Mr Lambart refused to make furinture for them. He told me, when I talked to him, that no one thought it was Newmars fault, they all thought he built a bad chair. He didn't like that and when Newmar kept on ordering that crap he said for his own reputation he just would not supply them anymore. When my 2018 had the same issue as my 2015, I came unwound. Yes they offered to fix it with all new coverings on all the furniture but the material they gave me to choose from was some of the same crap. I called them out on it and we settled for real Ultra Leather Brisa Distressed. This was a product that was used in King Aires and the "new at the time" class C's. Now to the root as to why no one was intersted in just fixing the problem up front. It seems that Newmar has a system where any repair that is "warranty" as in a build issue is charged back to manufacturing. The folks on the line have a salary + a bonus program. I don't know ezactly how the bonus is accrued or paid, but it is held in a seperate account on the statement. Any "warranty" repairs that are charged back to production are paid out of that account before bonus's are figured. So you see, sales gets their full gross and the poor folks that build the unit pay for it out of their bonus account, so sales can keep a high gross. Neat trick if you are VP of sales. Who I undersand isn't there as of this summer. Also made the Company look really good to prospective buyers at the time. It worked it seems. But I understand that the new President has done some realignment on several departments and the cheap crap is not in play anymore, at least at Newmar. I want to be clear Newmar stood up to fixing the problem for a lot of folks. The rule was original owner only and I believe within five years of the build date. I do know of a couple of upper end London Aire and Essex units that the second owners got some relief as well. I am in fact, after having three Newmar products and being without a coach for two years looking for a little smaller coach than my to 44' Dutch Stars. I'm activley hunting a 40' 2012-15 all electric 4018 Dutch Star right now. So still a solid Newmar buyer. They have always been fair with me but someof hte issues just could have been avoided with better managment.
I disagree that the coach manufacturer and furniture make aren't to blame. They both put their name on the defective upholstery. Unless they tested it and found it to work, they simply took the word of another party. If I spend $500,000 or more on a vehicle and the seat falls apart in under 40,000 miles, I expect them to fix it. Heck, if I spent $50,000 on a car and the seat fell apart in under 40,000 miles, I would expect them to fix it.
Thanks James, Do know of anyone in AZ that can help me out with the main slide on my Beaver motor home. I'll be there in the middle November to the first week of December.
The manufacturers buy crap, so... yah, it's their fault. There has been good vinyl for like 50 years. I use Naugahyde today and it's bulletproof. There is no excuse!!! Yes, I am an upholsterer.
@@AZExpert it's a bit tough these days because of the expense. I'm currently building my own 33 ft rv renovation and it cost me $800 Canadian to rebuild my sofa/bed(no labour, at cost). I replaced all the foam, modified the structure a bit and recovered it. Proper leather would be plus $800 at least. People are finding it hard these days to justify the expense. I think these days there needs to be more consumer protection against the creation/importation of crap that just ends up in the landfill. These products they are selling are "bonded" products that obviously have a problem with the "bonding" part. A good wearing fabric, vinyl or real leather will serve people well. I found your channel because of my reno and appreciate your personal ethics. Thanks for your hard work.
Thanks for the great vid/edit & share! So when I shop RVs I get tons of seller “tires have lots of tread” style response on my own desire to know actual date of tires. Anyone here in the chat have an opinion? Mine is max 6 years old and inspect condition for bulges often.
I drive enough to use up a set of tires in 3 years. I'll buy new old stock tires (often on eBay) up to 3 or 4 years old, if they're 20% or more less than new new (up to 1 year old). So, I sometimes end up running on tires 6-7 years old, that I installed as new old stock. I'd even be fine running on them a bit longer, as long as I see no signs of sidewall aging/cracking. By 9-10 years after the DOT date, I'd get new tires even if all seems well. Personally, I also stay 10mph more below the speed rating for each year beyond 6. So at 10 years old, I'd be down to 78mph on T (118mph) tires, basically forcing their replacement. With S rated 112mph tires, hitting 9 years old drops my personal speed limit to 82mph, also a death sentence for the tires. Note that my climate in New England is pretty easy on tire aging, plus my normal parking locations cause very little baking of the tires in the sun. I also always run tires that are several load index numbers above stock. If I didn't, and was working the tires to the fairly small safety margins that car manufacturers give you with stock tires, I'd be even more strict about retiring tires due to age.
With all the money spent on the quality motorhomes you’d think that it was possible to source quality leather and the skills needed to make good covers for the furniture. You might expect this from China but not America surely? There’s a business out there waiting to happen with the skills of saddlers and quality equipment that will satisfy the needs of the industry and individuals who don’t want plastic furniture. I’m sure the Amish community is more than capable of filling the gap with their skills. I’d be interested in investing in such a company that would work alongside Tiffin, Country Coach and the top notch quality campers. I’m sure Ralph Lauren wouldn’t hesitate if they are still doing some of the interiors that bling. You wonder why people don’t earn enough money to survive well here’s an opportunity that doesn’t happen every day. I’m interested are you?
@@AZExpert I see...well can I ask you a major question?.....what's the very best roof for a full timer that plans on keeping the same rig for many years?
ONE LAST COMMENT WHY IS IT GOING TO ONE OF THE SUPPOSEDLY POOR STATES HOPEFULLY THIS WEEK HAS TO GET IN A HELL OF A DEAL AND ALMOST FREE VEHICLE BECAUSE THE INTERIOR ISN'T WORTH A DAMN IF I PAID A MILLION DOLLARS OR MORE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND DIDN'T GET MY MONEY'S WORTH I GET MY MONEY'S WORTH IN ANOTHER WAY RIGHT OUT OF THE HIDES OF THE PEOPLE THAT SOLD IT TO ME AND THE PEOPLE THAT MANUFACTURED IT
The money these things cost and they put cheap furniture in them. They could use better stuff for very little more cost that would get lost in the overall cost.
so people pay others to drive their RV's? nice "gig", I was thinking about starting a valet parking services Company at some RV's Parks Nation Wide , will never do, so go for it and send me 15% of the earnings, 🤣🤣
It's no exaggeration to say the Chinese make the most expensive products in the world. What else can you say about something that barely survives a one-year warranty?
You ain't lying about the peeling vinyl. They need to find a new herd of naugas with better hides.
Must have not been feeding them properly
See? This is where free-range, organic naugas would be useful! Lol
The land used to shake when the nauga herds were at their peek. Then man hunted them until they were almost extinct. Only the RV industry save them with conservative efforts. The years of imitation nauga caused the peeling problem. 😅
Many will say they are leather. But they are bonded leather which is cheap 'leather soup'. Top grain or better is the way to go.
I was EXTREMELY lucky with my Tiffin 2016 31SA upholstery. I bought the coach as the second owner mind you. A year ago I emailed Tiffin Customer Service about the peeling problem. Both my captains chairs and dinette were starting to peel. Next thing... BOB TIFFIN calls me direct and says we are sending you new upholstery, all I have to do is install it (I'm handy so no problem there). I was speechless. I wont buy anything but a Tiffin :>) "Where ever I go, Tiffin goes"
That's pretty cool. what did they send to replace it
I was at Tiffins 50TH anniversary in Wyoming. Bob and his wife were there. I was luck enough to talk BOB alone in the 50TH anniversary Allegro bus before he was swamped by people, great guy.
@@AZExpert A Newmar RV :)
Well, don’t expect it going forward, Thor bought Tiffan and Thor acted like I had antique plates on my 2016 Thor Tuscany when I inquired about replacement skins. They couldn’t have cared less.
Finally, someone addressing the flaking RV furniture problem. I wondered what was causing it. I’ve seen so many frustrated owners. You could never rant too long on that problem. Thank you for covering it.
You're welcome
I retired from UPS after 31 years, we call that a pretrip inspection and we did one before we took off for the day and if I may say that a beautiful coach
Thanks for watching!
That is the floor plan that I love! It just looks like a home instead of an RV. Thanks for showing these RV’s, it helps to know as much as possible in figuring out what I need to look for.
I still recommend renting first
Thanks for pointing out the fabric issue that was industry wide. Hadn't heard about this problem.
All the dark padded trim material in my Jayco was peeling. Thankfully we went with fabric for the seating. We ended up recovering the padded trim with vinyl from Walmart ourselves. Turned out great.
I'm glad it worked out, I am still baffled that the manufacturers get away with fabric failing
They did finally address the problem, but only in the past few years.
Beautiful coach but man, the upholstery. I hope Tiffin takes care of each and every one of these, if they don’t it will speak volumes about them as a company.
Of course they wont
Our 2012 Forest River Georgetown was just starting to show a bit of peeling last season. This year it showed a bit more. It’s not bad, but when it gets bad I will have the front seats recovered.
I hate to see lawyers get involved in anything, but this peeling material needs to be addressed!
I’ve also seen some Fleetwood with the issue. The problem is everywhere.
I dont think anyone will address it
Came across this video. Worked at rv dealers in the seventies. To me not much has changed as far as quality. Seen it all. Garbage in garbage out. To this day feel sorry for people that have been taken.
It's a shame
This is my favorite Phaeton floor plan. The tv is in a logical place to watch it.
It's very nice!
They do sometimes put TVs in awkward places
There is a company that is replacing the covers for a bunch of motorhomes in Iowa, not for free, it is people that worked at the factory that used to make the furniture and they have good material now.. Used to do fealer trades when I went to college, it was nice to get paid to drive. Be safe.
Awesome
Are you talking about Flexsteel?
The woman that started the company used to work for Flexsteal (spelling intentional) and bought all the seat templates from them when they stopped supplying the RV industry (because of this peering seat disaster). You are out of luck if you have Villa junk.
AZ monsoon has been raging while you were galavanting around ;-)
I know! A crazy amount of rain this year
@@AZExpert I was concerned regarding the monsoon and your RV. Keep safe there.
This flexsteal issue goes back even before 2010. We bought a 2010 Damon Astoria pusher, built in 2009. The peeling started about 2015.
GREAT video James, my 2017 View has the same fabric issues. Very sad for so many people.
Very Sad
Welcome back. Looks like a nice Tiffin. Too bad about the upholstery. Thanks for the video James. Nice to meet you Cal. Happy trails!
Thanks 👍
True, the upholstery failure is an industry wide scandal. The flex steel chairs and sofa bed in my 2013 forest river were damaged and needed replacement by 2018 when I bought the coach.
A check of the forest river forums will show that people were irate long before that. So why did the manufactures continue to include that junk in their coaches?
Going into it, the seller gave me a generous accommodation. I went to an independent upholstery artist and stretched kid leather over everything. It looks so good I covered the doghouse and I had floor mats made of the same leather.
wow nice
Thank you so much. We have a 2015 Tiffen 32SA with major flaking issues. So nice to know what the cause is. Might be easier to replace the captain chairs up front instead of recovering them. Thank you again.
Thanks James, fun stuff!!
Thanks for watching!! :)
Excellent video James, as usual great info! Your the best my friend!
I appreciate that!
I had the pleasure of delivering Workhorse and Ford Chassis to Tiffin in Red Bay Al. for about 6yrs. Very fine company. Don't know what they are like now after they sold.
I've never toured there but I do like Tiffin
Nice Coach, let’s party!
lol
Thanks for the video. Just a note that your title screen says Ultraleather is the problematic fabric, but in my research these manufacturers used Halo Leather or as your IRV2 screenshot shows UltraLux both which are bonded scraps of leather glued to the substrate. Ultraleather is a different and more expensive product that does not peel. If you reach out to a company like Brad and Hall, they’ve been using Ultraleather for 30 years and have not seen it fail.
Thanks for the comment
For Winnebago, it was indeed Ultraleather, made by Ultrafabrics, Inc. and the peak problems were between mid-2015 and 2017.
What I have been able to piece together is that the manufacturer of the material that died like this was a company called Halo. They have since gone out of business (no surprise) and that left the furniture manufacturers and coach manufacturers on the hook for their junk.
To be clear, this is not "pleather", it is vinyl. Pleather is a rip-off product that contains the lowest grade, bottom-grain leather bonded to (usually crappy) vinyl just so the manufacturer can say it's "leather". A vinyl product like this is a cloth material bonded to a vinyl product and has, for many years., been a very reliable product when done right. For example, Mercedes' MB TEX product which has a reputation for being as good or better than genuine leather in most situations and outlast leather in many situations (like when exposed to a lot of UV and a lot of flex).
Knowing this does not really help though, you're still stuck either reupholstering or replacing your furniture if the manufacturer will no longer replace the material. So, like James said, be aware!
I've seen a lot of damage
My 2015 Prime Time Crusader peeled the couch and theater seats really bad 2 years ago, so mad to see it happen.
We covered them with Indian blankets for now.
I’m in Gila Bend and every upholster around Az. knows about this issue and wants a fortune to recover them.
I bet! I would too, recovering chairs is a ton of work
Our little two person couch in my TT, they wanted 2k to recover. Can purchase Rec Pro new for same price roughly.
My 2011 Tiffin Breeze is shedding like crazy right now! Flexsteel really got a load of bad material for several years! I love the 36GH layout! Its probably a queen bed.
That's too bad! I hope you get it under control or replaced
Replaced my sofa this year because of that issue. Looked practically new besides the peeling. Made a mess every time you sat on it.
That's awful :(
You see the same thing on the junk that Big Lots sells. The faux leather on their sectionals start peeling just like the furniture in the RV you show. Find them on craigslist by the dozens and they all look the same. Huge blotches of peeling fabric.
That's awful.
ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO
Thanks Steve
Hey Az Expert! Another great video! Also, I emailed you about getting an inspection done in Mesa. I used the email provided here under the contact. I'm sure you get tons of emails, just checking to make sure I was using the right email. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks! ~PhotoScott
Thanks Scott! Yes I do get a lot of emails, it takes me a WHILE
Love the walk thru and this point on the furniture. Noticed you are using the Microflex Diamond Grip gloves, they are the best with that fingerprint, been using them for years!
They are great! and easy to order from amazon
I started ordering from Zoro, half the cost of Amazon!
Hey, new to the channel, great stuff. I saw a YT video on replacing TPO rooftop membrane. Maybe you can could have a DIY Course on sewing fabric/leather and re-covering furniture. List of sources for materials, and what to look for and recommendations for sewing machines, thread, and sewing needle type would be very helpful.
I'm actually doing research on building my own 5th Wheel Toy Hauler (approx 44 feet long). Ever thought about doing something like that, choosing a trailer, then actual build. Kinda like building a tiny house, but more RV / 5th Wheel / Travel Trailer Style.
I always thought it was funny that la mesa RV was not in mesa, used to enjoy their shows at the Cardinals stadium, ps so glad I don't need DEF for our 2007 Alfa Gold. Greetings from Utah James,will be back in Apache Juction for the winter will stop by and say 👋 hello.
They do have a Mesa location right off of Mesa Dr and the 60. But the first store was in La Mesa, CA.
@@AZExpert thanks for the history lesson😁
2012 FOREST RIVER SOLERA had the same problem, no good will fix from Forest River and it was only 3 years old at the time.
Awful
The only flaw in our 38 Forza was the driver and passenger seat peeling ....Winnebago wants $1,600 for the pair of replacement covers ...then you have to find an upholster to install them
Yeah, I have recovered a few things...it's not the best time
I bought a 2012 Thor motor home in ~ 2014, furniture perfect, within a year flaking, bought a 2016 Forest River motorhome in ~ 2018, furniture perfect, within a year flaking. I've seen 2018 year owners complaining, same problem. I think the whole bunch of them besides the fabric producer have blame. RV owners, dealers got a big time expense hit on a shoddy product peddled for multiple years.
It really was a shame
We had a full set of cat napper brand furniture and bought the extended warranty just in case it "delaminated" and found out that in almost 5 years, it started to shed the fake leather surface. The extended warranty said "we don't cover delamination" which was a waste... So, either buy fabric or leather, None of the fake leathers. YES, There should be a class action lawsuit against the fabric manufacturer...
Seems like they know their product is garbage
Not a Beaver, but nice. Every time I see one of these, I think of Andrew Steele’s. Whoever gets his is going to get a smoking deal since he had just dumped 30K into that beautiful flooring before he traded it in.
Yeah they will
On wheel bearing something I've always done into the tripis is get a baseline reading after 200 or 300 miles just and take hand h and touching all the wheel bearings... ((But be careful don't burn yourself on the disk or drums)).... Once you know YOUR rig only need to do this once a month or the start of a new trip .....
I'm just reminded to check the insides of the drums and disks for leaking hubs too.....
Luke,like,👍
Yeah this was just a quick check to get him on the road
One handed holding the camera. 🙏
LOL Thanks...most people like to harrass me about it. I dont have time to mess with a tripod most of the time
It was an issue even before then. We had a 2008 Four Winds Kodiak super C previously and both of the front seats and the couch just fell apart.
That's awful
I bought a used 2013 Keystone Cougar 337FLS that looked to be in perfect condition BUT after several months my couches started to shed. At first I thought it was the dog claws but it was happening in places he wasn’t at. And since I have a dog and don’t plan on spending thousands to repair it, I’ve been trying to remove the fake “leather” and just have the fabric backing.
It's just unfortunate
James you should have run the jacks down and got the wheels off the ground and checked the wheel bearings and steering components including the airbags..you cant tell anything unless you rotate the wheels off the ground even then the wheel bearings can be bad and steering components and suspension
So he had to go...LOL..it was a quick inspection
Good video
Thanks for watching!! :)
Its a deal breaker for me, new or used. If it isn't real leather then it needs to be fabric. As a consumer, having no say in the manufacturing or sourcing of materials, it IS their fault. The manufacturer sets the specs and should confirm they are adhered too.
Upholstery...yep. My 2017 Thor Aria 3901 had the peeling fabric. Once it starts peeling, it cascades into complete disintegration in a matter of months. We spent $5,600 to completely reupholster the coach with high quality durable faux leather. Thor would ship us replacement pieces (at a cost) but they were covered with "the same material" that already failed. So that was not a solution.
Things I now notice about RVs after religiously watching your inspection videos: Rear radiators instead of side radiators, tire date codes, slide topper fabric, awning manufacturers, etc. I just looked at a 2006 Alfa Founders edition with about 14,000 miles on the original tires, date code 0905. The current owner doesn't seem to think it's a problem as there's no cracking but I'm more than a bit skeptical. The cheapest price I can find to replace them is $4000 installed if I proceed with the purchase, but at this point it isn't likely.
Those are pretty old, I would replace them
If you do buy it, set yourself a 60mph speed limit, and drive gently, until you can replace them ASAP. The 9th week of 2005 was a LONG time ago. Put 3 eye bolts though each of them, and sell them as tire swings "with lots of tread left".
I'm having the same issue with the fabric on my theater recliners. Only 2 years old.
OOf Sorry to hear
James, we're in deep research mode, as we prepare to pull the trigger on a Class B+ RV. We're pretty interested in the Winnebago Navion Murphy bed, and the Leisure Travel Van Unity MB. Now, after watching all your Winnebago roof videos, I'm put off Navion. I've been researching how LTV attaches the roof, but haven't been able to find anything specific about the attachment. I watched your video of the inspection of Andrew Steele's LTV Unity roof, but all you mentioned was that the sealer in the channel was in good shape. Can you say something about how LTV attaches their roof? Is there potential for the same issues Winnebagos have?
The last thing I want is to be driving at highway speeds and have a roof blow off.
Thank you very much for your very helpful videos. I've learned tons of invaluable stuff. Please keep them coming.
I always recommend inspections but since they are so much smaller and the roof is not the same--the roof blowing off is not really an issue with these.
@@AZExpert Thanks, James
Yeah , seen the fabric problem.. thx for eggsplaining how - what - why it happens
You're welcome!
If anyone is in the market of buying a motor home, I would definitely hire James to do a thorough inspection before purchasing it.
I had no idea about this common problem. What a sad story, really.
It really is
Bring some rain to CA, we need it. Is the only place to buy RV wipers online? Part stores only carry
car & truck.
YOu can order from the dealer too
@@AZExpert
Thank you James
@Tim Michaels Not sure where you’re located here in Cal, but in SoCal we ended up getting ours out at Walt’s in Corona, or at a Camping Worst because no one had any anywhere including Amazon.
I have the same issue with the furniture in my RV. I replaced my sofa and loveseat. I still need to replace the captain chairs .😞
I'm sorry. It's unfair
It's cheap-ass PU leather. As the older, quality name furniture manufacturers retired/sold out they were bought up by two - three schmuck companies. Pretty much the same as almost every other quality name company in the U.S. Anyway, they came up with some crap called PU Leather which is just shreds of leather and glue pressed into sheets and used to make something good enough to get out the door. If you search PU Leather you'll find never-ending horror stories of furniture falling apart in months, not years.
Its bad
I have a1997 winnabago adventure all my furniture is in great condition
Awesome
if you posted everyday I wouldn't be mad.
thank you. I wish I could, Truthfully, making content does cause me anxiety a bit.
I disagree with you James, the RV manufacturers need to stand behind their products. I’m sure they made out on the pricing because Flexsteel and Villa chose to use cheap Chinese pleather. My RV has Thor written on it and not the name of the textile manufacturer. There needs to be a class action lawsuit against them even if it only yields me $5.
No one will ever do it. Getting blood from a turnip
The lawyers will get a million or two, and consumers will get coupons for $5K off any purchase over $100K, or a coupon for $1000 off a set of new skins at some still-extremely-profitable price for the RV makers.
What they should really do, is release free CAD files into the public domain, to let any upholsterer cut exact replacements, for each and every seat/cushion/etc. Instead, thousands of people will be paying thousands of upholsterers to fiddle around measuring and fitting replacement fabric/leather, often wasting material due to mistakes and/or quirks of each version of each piece of furniture.
Not a fan of the kitchen choices, especially the basket weave tile, which will be a nightmare to clean, and the choice of a dishwasher over an oven.
That sounds like fun driving these motorhomes cross country for a job I used to drive semis cross country do you you need a driver I'm available as long as you don't have to have any special license because all I have is a driver's license this motorhome is really really nice
No you dont need a special license
@@AZExpert *as long as your state of residence doesn't require a special driver's license.
Those rear radiator coach’s are less expensive, but it’s just weird not being able to visually inspect the engine, without taking the closet floor cover off anyway.
My previous 2003 Holiday Rambler Endeavor’s furniture looked really great when I sold her last year…so they (fabric manufacturers) can make quality, probably costs a bit more?
they just took a chance and it ended badly for them
My 2019 Jayco Pinacle fifth wheel has this problem on my recliner went to claim warrenty they said they needed the numbers off tags low and behold the tags had been ripped off they new there was going be a claim so ripped the tags off the furniture so no numbers off the tags no warranty
He had to get a cheaper driver, you were killing him
LOL, I'm just not as available
Please inform us about tire pressure.
Is the sticker max cold @ 120psi?
But should it be on axel weight. Just wondering.
I didn't add that. If I added everything in the videos would be 4 hours long and people would be asleep. :)
Well the fabric issue is in fact a fabric issue. But the manufactuer of the coach was responsable for picking the product. Not Flexsteel, not Lambart or any othe furniture builder. Newmar, Tiffin and all the rest pick there fabric. I have had two brand new Newmar Dutch Stars and both had the same issue. Newmar replaced the fabric for any original owner.
They had the issue as high up as London Aire and down to Bay Stars. It was their fault for picking this crap and then to make matters worse they continued to do so even after they knew they had the problem. There is no excuse.
I agree 100%, they should honor replacement of the material for at least ten years, heck the materials on my 2001 motorhome are still in good shape, it was pointless money savings of maybe a $500 from what I can see.
@@AZExpert Well James here is what I foumd out from within Newmar Corp. Don't know about any other company, just Newmar. It's funny that you mentioned $500. I suggest to the VP of Sales that they raise every one of the lines from Bay Star to King Aire $400 on the build invoice. We all know that $400 isn't going to keep anyone from buying one of these new. Then just use the real Ultra Leather, a Japannese product and the issue would go away. But that didn't happen. What did happn was Mr Lambart refused to make furinture for them. He told me, when I talked to him, that no one thought it was Newmars fault, they all thought he built a bad chair. He didn't like that and when Newmar kept on ordering that crap he said for his own reputation he just would not supply them anymore.
When my 2018 had the same issue as my 2015, I came unwound. Yes they offered to fix it with all new coverings on all the furniture but the material they gave me to choose from was some of the same crap. I called them out on it and we settled for real Ultra Leather Brisa Distressed. This was a product that was used in King Aires and the "new at the time" class C's.
Now to the root as to why no one was intersted in just fixing the problem up front. It seems that Newmar has a system where any repair that is "warranty" as in a build issue is charged back to manufacturing. The folks on the line have a salary + a bonus program. I don't know ezactly how the bonus is accrued or paid, but it is held in a seperate account on the statement. Any "warranty" repairs that are charged back to production are paid out of that account before bonus's are figured. So you see, sales gets their full gross and the poor folks that build the unit pay for it out of their bonus account, so sales can keep a high gross. Neat trick if you are VP of sales. Who I undersand isn't there as of this summer. Also made the Company look really good to prospective buyers at the time. It worked it seems. But I understand that the new President has done some realignment on several departments and the cheap crap is not in play anymore, at least at Newmar.
I want to be clear Newmar stood up to fixing the problem for a lot of folks. The rule was original owner only and I believe within five years of the build date. I do know of a couple of upper end London Aire and Essex units that the second owners got some relief as well.
I am in fact, after having three Newmar products and being without a coach for two years looking for a little smaller coach than my to 44' Dutch Stars. I'm activley hunting a 40' 2012-15 all electric 4018 Dutch Star right now. So still a solid Newmar buyer. They have always been fair with me but someof hte issues just could have been avoided with better managment.
I disagree that the coach manufacturer and furniture make aren't to blame. They both put their name on the defective upholstery. Unless they tested it and found it to work, they simply took the word of another party. If I spend $500,000 or more on a vehicle and the seat falls apart in under 40,000 miles, I expect them to fix it. Heck, if I spent $50,000 on a car and the seat fell apart in under 40,000 miles, I would expect them to fix it.
Why do they make rear radiator pushers? Be crazy to own one!
Thanks James, Do know of anyone in AZ that can help me out with the main slide on my Beaver motor home. I'll be there in the middle November to the first week of December.
You could call Cassones in Mesa, that's prime busy season though
The manufacturers buy crap, so... yah, it's their fault.
There has been good vinyl for like 50 years.
I use Naugahyde today and it's bulletproof.
There is no excuse!!!
Yes, I am an upholsterer.
You should reach out to some of these owners, they could probably use your expertise
@@AZExpert it's a bit tough these days because of the expense. I'm currently building my own 33 ft rv renovation and it cost me $800 Canadian to rebuild my sofa/bed(no labour, at cost). I replaced all the foam, modified the structure a bit and recovered it. Proper leather would be plus $800 at least. People are finding it hard these days to justify the expense.
I think these days there needs to be more consumer protection against the creation/importation of crap that just ends up in the landfill. These products they are selling are "bonded" products that obviously have a problem with the "bonding" part. A good wearing fabric, vinyl or real leather will serve people well.
I found your channel because of my reno and appreciate your personal ethics.
Thanks for your hard work.
Bad material and the owners pay! Thanks
They do
Do you check/Grey/Black and Fresh. I would want to hit the road with empty gray and black tanks and a full freshwater
yes and no, Cal was not heading out until the next day and had time to add water if he needed it. Thanks!
What is the price on this one?And what is your AZ address? Thanks Henry…….
It's nice to see that you got your oil laced gloves ALL OVER the entire coach I'm sure the person getting this will loveit
They don't have oil on them, unbunch your knickers or you might have a stroke geez
Thanks for the great vid/edit & share!
So when I shop RVs I get tons of seller “tires have lots of tread” style response on my own desire to know actual date of tires.
Anyone here in the chat have an opinion? Mine is max 6 years old and inspect condition for bulges often.
Yes, tread depth is almost never an issue and is mostly meaningless. 7 years is the unofficial age of concern on tires.
I drive enough to use up a set of tires in 3 years. I'll buy new old stock tires (often on eBay) up to 3 or 4 years old, if they're 20% or more less than new new (up to 1 year old). So, I sometimes end up running on tires 6-7 years old, that I installed as new old stock. I'd even be fine running on them a bit longer, as long as I see no signs of sidewall aging/cracking. By 9-10 years after the DOT date, I'd get new tires even if all seems well.
Personally, I also stay 10mph more below the speed rating for each year beyond 6. So at 10 years old, I'd be down to 78mph on T (118mph) tires, basically forcing their replacement. With S rated 112mph tires, hitting 9 years old drops my personal speed limit to 82mph, also a death sentence for the tires.
Note that my climate in New England is pretty easy on tire aging, plus my normal parking locations cause very little baking of the tires in the sun. I also always run tires that are several load index numbers above stock. If I didn't, and was working the tires to the fairly small safety margins that car manufacturers give you with stock tires, I'd be even more strict about retiring tires due to age.
Do you have surplus body parts for American Eagle ? thanks
I do not
Maybe they washed the unit first before you got there
No GFCIs by the sink?
because I don't sell them
If you bring your Vin into the Toyota dealership parts department you will get the correct size. Always go factory
And pay out the nose
@@AZExpert I don't think it's very expensive. And maybe it's a little more than the aftermarket but in my experience it is superior.
Even Recpro dose that crap after 2 years. Very frustrating 🤬
Yes very
my thor ace 30.1 peeled like that if you use anything but mild soap it peeled shitty product i had mine redone by a friend with marine vinyl
It was going to peel no matter what you used on it
With all the money spent on the quality motorhomes you’d think that it was possible to source quality leather and the skills needed to make good covers for the furniture. You might expect this from China but not America surely? There’s a business out there waiting to happen with the skills of saddlers and quality equipment that will satisfy the needs of the industry and individuals who don’t want plastic furniture. I’m sure the Amish community is more than capable of filling the gap with their skills.
I’d be interested in investing in such a company that would work alongside Tiffin, Country Coach and the top notch quality campers. I’m sure Ralph Lauren wouldn’t hesitate if they are still doing some of the interiors that bling.
You wonder why people don’t earn enough money to survive well here’s an opportunity that doesn’t happen every day. I’m interested are you?
Ultra-leather has no leather in it…….
Correct
So do you travel and do repairs on RVs?
Sometimes
@@AZExpert I see...well can I ask you a major question?.....what's the very best roof for a full timer that plans on keeping the same rig for many years?
I have 2018 sundance. All the furniture is failing
I'm sorry to hear that
I would not own an rv with shwintec slides!
I don't blame you
Its still the manufacturer fault of the rig....buy purchasing cheap materials....they could of bought better....but that cuts into profits
They don't care
ONE LAST COMMENT WHY IS IT GOING TO ONE OF THE SUPPOSEDLY POOR STATES HOPEFULLY THIS WEEK HAS TO GET IN A HELL OF A DEAL AND ALMOST FREE VEHICLE BECAUSE THE INTERIOR ISN'T WORTH A DAMN IF I PAID A MILLION DOLLARS OR MORE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND DIDN'T GET MY MONEY'S WORTH I GET MY MONEY'S WORTH IN ANOTHER WAY RIGHT OUT OF THE HIDES OF THE PEOPLE THAT SOLD IT TO ME AND THE PEOPLE THAT MANUFACTURED IT
so what model is that?
Its actually on the title screen
36GH
@@AZExpert no idea what a title screen is but it's the 36GH, 38' long. great floorplan.
The money these things cost and they put cheap furniture in them.
They could use better stuff for very little more cost that would get lost
in the overall cost.
They use as cheap as they can
The Thomas Payne stuff looks like lepers with skin peeling off
Probably less attractive
I have a Class B License and willing to transport vehicles for you.
I don't have anything to transport, you can contact the dealer if you want though
YOU!!! didn't check the roof shame on you.
No time for that
so people pay others to drive their RV's? nice "gig", I was thinking about starting a valet parking services Company at some RV's Parks Nation Wide , will never do, so go for it and send me 15% of the earnings, 🤣🤣
There has to be a way to transport them, so yes--ocasionally I get paid to transport\inspect them.
It's no exaggeration to say the Chinese make the most expensive products in the world. What else can you say about something that barely survives a one-year warranty?
It was a failed experiment with a new product