Light Mech Tier List (BATTLETECH 3025)
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2024
- What is the best light mech a mercenary can use in the 3025 Succession Wars Battletech universe?
FAQ
1. Hey, the Phoenix Hawk isn't a light!
Correct! A lot of people have asked why the Phoenix Hawk defines the light mech meta when it's a 45 ton medium. Because of it's popularity, speed, large laser, and good armor the Phoenix Hawk forces light mechs have to have an answer to it (out fight, out run, or defend until help arrives). So while it's not a light mech itself, it is the yardstick which I use to judge the effectiveness of the scouts and multi-role scout-striker mechs which are seen in this video. :)
2. Why isn't mech XYZ in the video?
Battlemechs included in the video are the ones that were listed in Sarna's RATs tables. Any that were not included were assumed to be too rare to be "realistically" (as far as that word can be used in a fantasy sci-fi settings) available for a mercenary unit to purchase.
3. The Spider and Ostscout are underrated!
There are a significant number of comments about this from Mercenary Commanders for me to be concerned that I may have underrated it. I'm aware of the situation and will keep an eye on it on my future games. While the mechs are undoubtedly superior in difficult terrain I will likely be still be relying on the "good enough" Locusts for my mercneary playthrough as I tend to prefer efficient general use mechs rather than specific use.
CHAPTERS:
0:00 Introduction
0:43 Design Criteria: Offense, Defense, Mobility
1:29 Design Criteria: Utility, Cost
2:41 Design Criteria: Availability
3:02 Engineering Selection Table
3:15 Ostscout
3:41 Spider
4:04 Flea
4:47 Javelin
5:25 Commando
5:50 Jenner
6:31 General Selection Criteria
6:50 Stinger and Wasp
7:55 Valkyrie
8:16 Raven
8:45 Firestarter
9:32 Urbanmech
10:07 Panther
10:52 Falcon
11:07 Hermes
11:24 Hornet
11:45 Mongoose
12:20 Tier List without Availability
12:36 Table of Weighted Scores
13:05 Recommended Mercenary Mechs
13:20 Proposed Customization
13:43 Improvements to Lance Compositions
13:57 Improvements from Customization
#battletech #battlemech #innersphere
The style of this video is similar to Big Red 40k and Auspex Tactics. Content creators like The Black Pants Legion and Baradul have had a large influence on this video. The introduction is in the style of jschlattLIVE's Tier List videos. - Розваги
this is the kind of content Battletech needs in order to grow as a real wargame, been playing cbt forever and this is concise, well presented and easily accessible, cant wait till you hit heavies or even clans/ post clan invasion era bc there's a real content drought there, good job
Thanks so much for that, it means a lot. More to come soon!
+1
The orange blob is my favorite character on UA-cam at the moment and as lore channels go this is top tier, duke of new York A #1
Newcomers and old timers alike will grow from this channel's knowledge
this channel has an extremely wild and amazing aesthetic. ur a slime made out of mechlab telling me how to optimize Succession War mechs and then you start bumping some goddamn sick shit in the credits i had to look up. its rare I see a channel doing something literally no one else is doing, and rarer when it doesn't feel like an idle novelty account.
Keep vibin lil slime dude
Thanks a bunch my Doe!
As a Capellen, I was trying to figure out if a slime technically even had a back to stab when I realized you were referring to the Raven 1X. Disregard all previous assassination attempts. Keep up the good work.
D: Thank you sir!
I know we are talking about a mercenary outfit but daaaamn seeing the Urbie on F hurts ...
Urbie goes bananas dude ...
It's a great mech for a planetary garrison unit! Terrible mech to lug along on a mercenary drop ship.
Thank you for the shout-out, I didn't expect that! I'm glad that variant scored so well in your efficiency matrix! This is a great overview for someone who happens to be looking for a third light mech mech, I guess that Firestarter is it!
You're welcome! I just plugged in the stats and was happy to see that high number come up. I actually think the "Dent" will be making up the majority of my light mech forces above the Firestarter, but we'll see once I get my campaign going properly~
At first I was like, "What about the 20T Fleas?" ... but then I remembered how rare they were outside of the Wolf's Dragoons until their exclusivity contract ended post Fourth Succession War.(3028-3030) The 15T version def fits in the F tier.
Oh yeah it's totally crap but I've used them to draw fire like most people would use a Savannah Master. Filun way to soak up sub 300 BV and have a Mad fast spotter.
lol. Sounds amusing.
@@MrDmitriRavenoff The 15-tonner version doesn't really count. It's an "ultra-light" mech, which is a separate category and doesn't really have many mechs in it...most of which are pretty crap.
The improved 20t Fleas is overall better. Which is the up-tonned variant I love. The bit slower but smaller profiled, higher hardpoints and biiit more firepower. But yeah 15 ton F-14 is garbage, not even fun to race in😂
As a Phoenix Hawk pilot, I can definitely say I agree with most of the tiers here, though I do think you underestimate the threat posed by the Commando a bit. Phoenix Hawks tend to run hot, and that leads to decreased mobility rather quickly. A Commando can catch an overheated Phoenix Hawk and then clip its wings by firing an SRM barrage and taking out a jump jet or two, or disabling the large laser, I've had this happen in campaigns. Once I had the head armor completely blown off and was forced to eject (the Phoenix Hawk's other weakness being subpar head armor for its tonnage). Gives me a nervous twitch when I see anything fast with SRMs.
I think another mech which deserves a mention is the LCT-1M variant of the Locust. Remember the Wyvern's niche as a fire support platform? You can carry twice as much firepower in one mech bay if you fill it with Locust 1Ms. Just...don't get hit if you can help it.
Well said! I'll always stand up for the Commando but i didnt think of it that way.
I think the underestimating comes from the matrix and conceptualization used. The Commando hits. Hard.
It's a terrific flanker and backstabber, great as a threat off to the side or cavalry action in sudden bursts.
No, it isn't as jumpy but that's not the point of it. It's a jab and a right hook that'll take down much bigger threats in a larger engagement, in a way the P Hawk doesn't quite do.
Then you would know that the Phoenix Hawk is a 45-ton MEDIUM mech, not a light mech.
You are correct!
The Phoenix Hawk is mech that defines the light mech meta because of its good defense, large laser, and ability to catch or keep up with most lights. This forces light mechs who are often scouts and strikers to have to have an answer to it (out fight, out run, or defend well enough until help arrives).
So while it's not a light mech itself, it is the yardstick which I use to judge the effectiveness of scouts and multi-role scout-striker mechs.
@@kennethcook9406 That it is, BUT, the Phoenix Hawk is the premier scout killer of its era, and so being able to survive being pursued by one in some way tends to be a favorable trait for a light mech of the Succession Wars.
That said, I do not run mine in a stcok configuration. Mine is a PHX-1 that has had the large laser and machine guns (plus ammo) removed and replaced with two additional medium lasers, two flamers, and more heat sinks, as I am in a campaign with a unit that is rather top-heavy tonnage wise (not quite Steiner heavy, but close - the average tonnage for our mechs is around 70 tons), forcing me to also fulfill the scouting and anti-infantry roles. We had dedicated scouts signed on at one point, but they never showed up.
If we're using the modern artwork and MWO models to visually represent the 'mechs, I think the "no torso twist" quirk should be ignored. Either way, interesting work. The comment on the Raven "dying out in the next few decades" was an amusing in-character joke, and makes me curious to see how you will rank these 'mechs again if you ever touch the eras of 3028-3050 and beyond.
Hah! I'm glad someone noticed the little Raven comment. I think it was a bit of a risk considering it's technically incorrect information, but the speaker wouldn't know about future events :)
I believe no torso twist quirk has niw been scrapped by CGL
@@TheSotai It was, yes. It was errataed away. I am still pretty sad about it, but what can you do?
@@nemamiah7832 don't people in table top games generally ignore errata content since it tends to break more than it fixes? or is that exclusively a TTRPG issue?
@@brettdibble2763 Up to you, really. Your table - your rules. BT doesn't really have a "competitive" scene and "ultimate rules". You pick and choose whatever you like. For instance, unless you are using Quirks optional rule, No Torso Twist wasn't coming into play at all. And base rules don't have Quirks.
Ah, the mongoose. Every light commander's dream mech
Awwwh yeah!
Love those. More firepower than the Locust and more armor, plus they don't explode when the pilot sneezes.
What an incredibly well done video. An incredible amount of work went into this, and it shows with how superbly the information is presented.
Thanks so much for your kind words. This one did take me quite a while and felt like a gamble since it was a bit far from what I normally do. Thank you!
Well done! Just found your channel, mate. The one thing I'd like to add: the benefit of SDR-5V is the fact that the MLs are mounted in torsos, just like with FireJav, but he gets way more jumping capability. Now that's important, because it allows Spider to freely jump in the rear arc of heavier opponents, unload 2 MLs in their backs and then also swing at them with both arms with minimum retaliation. Rolling on Punching table twice can be scary even for more beefy opponents. And Pilot Hits tend to accumulate. Or even leave the Head in a precarious position of being open to get 1-shotted.
I still wouldn't have bought one until the technology improves and Venoms come into play. But this ability of sneaky stabbing someone into the back of the head - always something to keep in mind.
Thanks for your comment! A few people have mentioned that they think the Spider is being underrated. I'm keeping my eye on it for a possible regrade!
This is soo well done, and I look forward towards more of this form, especially getting into different weight/tonnage classes as well as the clan mechs later
Thanks so much! They take quite a bit to do since I need to evaluate each mech in the class to understand the meta. But I look forwards to doing more of them!
@@nerdyOveranalyzed Systems certainly were online for this one, as informative yet direct and too the point as you were, it made those 15 minutes absolutely zoom by.
By giving a contextual baseline you've already made better content than most of the bigger channels. Subbed.
Hey, thanks man! I appreciate that. I agree with you there. After watching a few videos and channels I feel like actually painting a big picture and taking a risk to draw conclusions is something that was missing. Thanks for your comment.
Great video, but I think the Spider, Wasp, and Stinger are going a bit underappreciated here. Jump jets add a large amount of mobility in any difficult to traverse terrain, which is fairly common. The Locust is also difficult to pilot, further bogging it down in any paved or non-flat areas. Flexibility during an engagement might be worth looking at.
Ye, a few people have mentioned the Spider was put a bit low. I think it's a really good scout mech but a bit too specialized to find it's way into a mercenary company. I'd still need to test though!
Wasp and Stinger are still criminally under-armed, though. If they spent their 3 tons for weapons on 3 medium lasers they would be perfectly viable scoutmechs and theywould deserve their status as a standard here. But their current loadouts are horrible, especially the Stinger's.
One meta consideration I have for medium and light mechs for mercenary companies is the presence of hand actuators to be able to pull off raids for goodies (or just grabbing that arm you knocked off the heavy mech for salvage).
This is the first video I've watched, I love the style and presentation soo much. Instantly added to the company advisory staff!
I think the Spider and the Ostscout should be in their own tier, the "objective mech" tier.
They are god tier in heavy-terrain Raids/Extraction missions, where the 8 jump would get you to safety when 2 locusts would get bogged down in terrain
Niche? Hell yes. But game winning in those niches
For sure for sure, these comments are making me rethink a few positions, particularly the placement of the spider's defense and utility rating (and therefore overall rating). I'm not certain it's an auto-include in the mercenary company I'll eventually run, but I think it might have it's place for the instances where the terrain is heavy.
@@nerdyOveranalyzed My campaigns first mission started with a spider jumping onto a moving train, burning a hole into the top of the train car using its medium lasers, using both hands to grab some loot, then properly GTFO-ing of there :D
A very well done presentation. And I agree with the assessment - its impossible to judge 'the best' because different people have different criteria but where drop capacity and repair costs/availability are a premium, I think I agree with you. It's also worth noting that - at least from the perspective of an alpha strike/battleforce player - the locust has another string to its bow: its high speed means it will be delivering rear arc shots far more regularly than other mechs which makes between a 50 and 100% difference to its effective firepower compared to a slower scout formation.
This is such a cool idea for exploring battlemechs, I love it! Awesome video!
Glad you enjoyed! Thanks for the feedback!
Just found your channel. As a old school table top player, I have to say I love your analysis. I also very much like your presentation and voice work. I am looking forward to more from you in the future! Keep up the awesome work!
Thanks so much! More videos coming soon!
Fantastic video condensing all that complex information into much easier understandable display of data and lists!
You can see the work that's been put into this list, nicely done!
Finally a video that let's me understand the complicated aspect of armor and weapons
Thank you for such a quick yet throughout video!
Thank you for your kind words! You're welcome and glad this was of help to you!
Ooooh this was a fun and detailed list. Always love how much effort you go into on details with every vid. Javelin really is just an amazing mech to have a lot of.
Hey thanks again for your kind words! Yeah, after looking at the data I do think the Javelin is probably one of the best choices.
This was soo relaxing and interesting to watch. Nice work on your channel man!
Glad you enjoyed it
Ooh, nice. New kind of video! Time to BINGE! 😁
Also, thanks to your videos. I have managed to succeed on my ultimate challenge.
Using MekHQ program to start only with locust and end up with 3 company size mercenary unit with 3 lances of aerospace and artillery support team.
Haha thanks! I appreciate it. Sounds like a crazy challenge!
Very well done! Much better analysis and much mroe charismatic voice than most every other Battletech UA-camrs I've seen. Animated both figuratively and literally! :D
Thanks so much! That's high praise. More videos coming soon!
Great job on the video. I like the criteria used as well to determine it's ranking (essentially the Phoenix Hawk as a light hunter). Funny how the Javelin, Jenner, and Firestarter came out on top as I like to use them in HBS Battletech and MW5: Mercs. I do have one additional consideration I would like to mention. Ammo, and specifically ammo explosions.
Light Mechs with ammo are potential time bombs (like any 3025 Era mech pre-CASE) where an internal shot can potentially detonate ammo and that is a death sentence for any 3025 mech, (especially lights).
The Jenner-F and Javelin-10F are still great choices taking ammo explosions into account, but Firestarter and Panther are a bit more vulnerable because of it.
Again, great job and good list and I will be looking out for more videos like this.
yeah for sure, ammo locations are definitely a thing! I took it into consideration when grading the defensive characteristics of the mech.
Thanks for taking the time to write this comment I appreciate it!
The tier list is fantastic, but there is one important factor you overlooked, that being hand actuators. Sometimes you need a 'mech to be able to physically pick up and move an object, and you need manipulators for that. The Spider and Ostscout are great for such asset removal operations, while the Locust is incapable of doing this.
Javelin, Firestarter, and a few mediums should be able to complete those missions for us Commander!
@@nerdyOveranalyzed Doesn't the standard firestarter omit a hand actuator for no good reason since it already has an elbow and can't rifleman flip like a jenner?
I like that you put clear criteria for how you're ranking them.
I will say, that Raven segment is hilarious considering uh, what a monster it turns into
Lol, thanks! I'm glad a few people caught on!
@@nerdyOveranalyzed Yeah I really like how you do the narrative section of this being a late succession war/pre Helm core advisory video to some of the more ignorant merc commanders out there. Kinda pidgeonholes yourself to this theme unless you want to do some shifting around and have the Invasion era/Civil War era be your in universe character's kid or something to keep up the trend. Possibly with your late SW character popping in and going "wow I wasn't expecting these mechs to get this good"
@@nerdyOveranalyzed Also, I'm surprised you didn't mention that the Javelin has a canonical refit by this time that gives it an LRM 15 with a single ton of ammo. That's really, really good for a light mech supplying indirect fire support, and even better is the fact that you can drop it down to an LRM 10/two LRM 5s and add on a medium laser/flamer/heat sinks/armor with your 2-3 ton weight saved. It's like a Valkyrie but better because it's not Fed Suns dependent. It's the JVN-10A if Mordel and Sarna aren't lying to me.
Awesome new channel and awesome Format, can't wait for the rest!
Thanks so much and welcome aboard!
@@nerdyOveranalyzed Happy to be here I have now binged all your episodes.
Maybe the best BT UA-camr out there as far as useful quality content goes. I love the analysis and the POV as a merc advisor. Very useful.
My that's quite high praise! Thank you for taking the time to type this! I'm glad you're enjoying.
This is really excellent work.
If you haven't already, do please assign yourself a raise and extra fiesta pail ration.
Thank you sir I do enjoy my fiesta pail rations! o7
I've been interested in D&D mini painting and terrain design for a while, and I've always loved giant robots, so Battletech seems like a good fit for me. Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries was actually my first real computer game. But I was so young, I didn't know what I was doing (I still loved it). I also got the more recent Battletech video game, but it's a lot to take in. There are so many options that it's hard to parse what's going on. I haven't played it that much because it's kind of hard to get into.
I've looked around on UA-cam to try to find useful information, but it hasn't been going well. Until now. Your videos are BY FAR the most useful content I've found. This video is absolutely incredible for a beginner. Very thorough, but very concise. It's crazy how many 1 Hour+ Battletech videos there are that give almost no useful information. This video has been 100x more useful than all of the hours of content that I've watched combined.
I'm going through all of your videos and really looking forward to future content. Even if I don't end up picking up the tabletop game as a hobby, I can't see myself ever unsubbing from your channel.
Congrats on the 1k. Just found you and I gotta say, looking forward to the next videos
Welcome aboard! Thanks so much!
This is a damn good video, and love the slime avatar. Subbed
Thanks so much!
Love this. Great info and presentation!
The Lyran in me is sad you didn’t cover the variant commandos tho. Esp the Large Laser one.
I've used Urbanmechs with great success in a bodyguard role marching In lockstep with big slow assaults. the AC10 able to discourage most scouts and light vehicles from trying sneaky backshots and letting the assault mech focus on the enemy in front of them. definitely not good for a scout Lance though.
I wonder why AC10 always feels so strong compared to PPC's, especially against lights. It just stumps me when I use them
These analyses are wonderful. They clearly set benchmarks and make solid comparisons between 'Mechs. I'm not 100% sure I agree with all of them, but the reasoning is solid.
Can't wait for the next batch on medium 'Mechs.
Thanks so much!
just found this channel. Great content and I hope you keep it up!
Hey welcome aboard! More content coming up soon!
Figuring out how to use Light Mechs Correctly is often a critical first step in most Campaigns, it is all you will have to work with often enough. Very Useful Video Looking Forward to Seeing more.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed! More coming up!
Love this list! As commander of the Red Sashes mercenary group (est. 3010), I would like to share my experiences on the field and the work my brilliant techs have done. Forming the core of my scout lances (not counting mechs in other weight classes) are Jenner JR7-Fs, Locusts, a single Firestarter of a custom variant (replacing the flamers with machineguns), and a few Wasps of the, not mentioned in this video, WSP-1D variant. For fire support we use a custom variant of the Valkyrie that turns the LRM 10 into two LRM 5s, which frees up tonnage to add an additional medium laser. The extra firepower comes in rather handy. The Locusts are derived from the LCT-1V variant. The one ton ammo bin for the machineguns is reduced in size to a half ton, allowing for a small laser to be added in the centerline next to the medium laser. This may not be as effective against hard targets like the LCT-1E, but I like having the machineguns to deal with infantry and it is not as crippling to have an arm sheared off this way. The Wasps are definitely the weakest of the bunch, but it was what I could get on the market on short notice when I was expanding the company to a full battalion. Look forward to more videos like this one. Stay safe out there fellow mercenaries.
Wow just getting into battletech and its overwhelming but this is the content i was looking for !
Glad you're getting a bunch out of it nya~ Welcome to the hobby nya!
I'm an old Jenner pilot myself!!!! Love that machine!!!!
No surprise that the Mongoose is the dominant S-tier ride. The engineers at Newtown Industries prepared refit packages for all of the 'Mechs marketed by the major manufacturers in Operation: Kickstarter with an eye toward increased durability and better heat/weapon balance, but when it came to the Mongoose they simply couldn't find anything to improve.
Heh, the Mongoose is a great mech!
Love this content. Can't wait for the medium Tier List
Thanks!
Phoenix hawk is a medium not a light
You are correct!
The Phoenix Hawk is mech that defines the light mech meta because of its good defense, large laser, and ability to catch or keep up with most lights. This forces light mechs who are often scouts and strikers to have to have an answer to it (out fight, out run, or defend well enough until help arrives).
So while it's not a light mech itself, it is the yardstick which I use to judge the effectiveness of scouts and multi-role scout-striker mechs.
Lol, this is the kind of grading scale/category stuff my OCD brain does with my own lance formations or making custom builds to fit a role.
Subbed and adding/keeping my eyes out for others like this to add to my watch list 👍
Hey TAVAAR thanks for the comment, glad you like it!
So I came back to this vid to add it to a playlist for future reference and sharing with friends...apparently youtube changed my 👍 to a 👎. 🤬
I have corrected it back to 👍, just a heads up in case its happened for other people.
Also, any chance of a vid going over how you arrived at each categories score (like a video on just the scoring formula portion you're using itself)?
I hate to be the "show your work" guy, but it would help others who like the nerdy math bits to follow along without it seeming mostly like a "gut feeling" type rating rather than mostly empirical. It would also be interesting to be able to compare formulas and weightings with yours.
Best in my experience is the Firestarter H. Remove some flamers for small lasers and this is the standard light mech for when I have 35 extra tons on the drop in Mechwarrior 5.
Heh heh heh, I plan on doing something similar on mine but with machine guns. It really pisses the Lyran's off when the Firestarter goes in with no flamers.
@@nerdyOveranalyzed No jumpjets, max armor, 2 flamers, 2 small lasers, 2 medium lasers, 2 machine guns with ammo in the leg. Crit seeking killer of things I don't want to chase and legs of salvage targets.
I really liked this video. I have watched it 4 times now. I would like to see a similar video on assault mechs.
I'd go so far as to say that I've gotten the most use out of the Jenner and panther than out of any other light mech. I like to use the panther as a light sniper that can reposition easily, and the jenner is great for tying down enemies while larger stuff moves in to combat range. Good video btw
Thanks! Yeah they're pretty good~!
I loved this video! So useful! More, please! Do the mediums and the heavies too, please!
Of course! That's the plan! Takes quite a bit of research to do them though, so going through some of the meks first with the mek videos.
I'm so happy to see the Flea-14 in there.its a meme of a mech, but at 270 BV it is a hard to hit troll of a mech.
Heh heh.
I ran a mercenary campaign with my captain still in a Mongoose while the rest were in heavys. Man I loved that mech, full runs every turn back shots to harass, and the command module for the rest of the team.
Really great times.
Yeah, the Mongoose is great!
I note you've not discussed the Firestarter Mirage, either here or in the Firestarter video.. I know it's a bit rare, but it seems like it would be a simple retrofit.
Thanks for your comment! I did strongly consider the Mirage but ended up taking the A variant because it retained it's ability to fight infantry effectively. I would definitely prefer the Mirage variant good if it was in an all Mech game though!
@@nerdyOveranalyzed On an unrelated note, have you ever seen the TIA-1N Titan in Battletechnology #11? And if so, what do you think of it?
Again very informative!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!
One thing I'll say is that when I played Mechwarrior 5 and needed a light mech to round out my lance, if I put an AI pilot in a Javelin of either variant, they'd generally come back missing at least one arm and a leg if not both of each. But, if I put that same pilot in a Commando 2D, they'd come back with minimal damage and a kill or two.
Weird~ The Jav seems far superior to the Commando on table top.
Crits are a lot less frequent and dangerous in mechwarrior games. Those crit protections are a huge save for the walking bomb. That and srm ammo being shared between srm6 and 4 unlike table where they can't be mixed so they are much more easily knocked offline. Think the commandos reputation of fragility but decent damage doesn't help either as it's a popular target for players whenever available. Dunno if I've ever seen a commando survive a single turn in range without being blasted to pieces, if it even makes it there.
My guess as to why is that the Commando is shorter, meaning that other mechs have to aim down to hit it. In Tabletop and other pure strategy games, this isn't an issue, but in a game like Mechwarrior 5, where you physically aim and shoot, having a short target matters, because it can hide behind buildings or terrain easier, and if it gets right up next to you, you might not be able to hit it at all.
@@Suraht Would actually be nice if lights were counted as one height shorter in tabletop as well. Would do wonders for thier ability to stay alive.
This was really good. The only issues here is that I would say this ranking is for the best light scout, not best light mech. Not all lights are designed around scouting. The urby, while slow and lightly armored, can be equipped with an ac 20. Get enough of them together and you can take out mechs that would cost way more than just a few urby's with ac 20's.
Another thing I would say is that the Raven 2X is the better version to use. 1 large laser, 2 medium lasers and 1 SRM 6 (or NARC) makes it a great fire support mech. It also has slightly more armor.
I liked the grading system a lot and can't wait to see how well the medium mechs do (the bushwacker, hunchback and viper are my favorites).
re: Urbies - this tier list is about ranking light mechs for use in a mercenary company. Urbies are a great cheap garrison option, it's true, but a lot of that is the assumption that the fight is coming to them, not the other way around. The Urbanmech is simply too slow to be anything other than a defender. While merc companies sometimes find themselves defending a location, most merc companies take a variety of jobs, and as such the Urbanmech is not a good option to have lying around the dropship, taking up a Mechbay that could be used for a more multi-mission-capable mech, or indeed, two Locusts.
These are a great rundown for getting into BT
Thanks!
Overall conclusions really line up with how my play in modded MW5 Mercenaries went. Early game is all about nothing too fancy, easy to maintain, easy to repair when destroyed. Can't ever really get behind the Panther with PPC, that arm always gets ripped off :(
Don't go for the best, go for the good enough.
Great analysis. Well earned sub
I agree. Certain things I can do in other games to minimize that risk, but seems to be quite hard in MW5, from what I’ve seen.
This video was really well done, quickfire, informative whilst taking into account the lore of the setting.
Personally, if i could i would keep the Pheonix Hawk as lance command - 2 Javelins with mixed loadout and a firestarter for anti infantry duties. reasonably well rounded engagement ranges, if a little heat dependant on the battlefield
Thanks for taking the time to write your compliment! I appreciate it as it really helps with the algorithm. Your lance would work for sure!
Which pixie though?
@@nerdyOveranalyzed Its no probs :)
Would love to see similar stuff for all the weight ranges, telling us of who is best and who is readily available.
Would love to see a heavy and medium list like this. Still new to the game and don't know enough to build a well thought out lance yet.
I'll be streaming a lesson how to do that tomorrow!
Your videos have First monitor status for me. I cant wait for the medium, heavy and assault analysis. Maybe it will even be applicable in the battletech game I recently downloaded.
Heyyyy thanks so much for setting the notifications! The other ones will come eventually, just gotta work though them all lol. Was there anything else you'd like to see?
@@nerdyOveranalyzed I am pretty new to the battletech franchize so I go with the flow. If you simply keep posting them I will keep watching them.
@@Z1pZ1p3r Deal! :D
This is incredible quality and analysis! Well done!
I must ask though, since I've come to your channel I've been introduced to concepts I'd never thought about before such as your weapon guide video and range brackets, where can I go to find more discussion about this?
In all honesty it's a lot of studying, spreadsheet analysis and looking at guides from other players. I'm still learning the game myself and part of the fun is trying to draw conclusions and strategies to push the meta forward. There are a few older youtube channels that I watch for these little gems, but if you don't want to sit through them you could always subscribe and tap the bell icon for more! :^)
Out of curiosity was there anything you'd want to see specifically?
@@nerdyOveranalyzed I'd love to see you include either a segment aside in videos explaining your method or a dedicated video going into detail how you arrived at the conclusions you did (I'm trying to find how to calculate the average damage dealt by an alpha strike of a given mech and math-hammer sites are all walls of text or pre-made calculators, which doesn't help me actually learn)
edit: this is mostly because I didn't keep good maths notes, but I'm going to use the method as posted in auspex tactics video here (ua-cam.com/video/M-WTqx89nzc/v-deo.html )
further edit: I realised that its just probability to hit, my brain is tired and I'm used to warhammer over-complicating this
I've been playing Battletech for decades. This was a good analysis. Though personally I prefer creating mech units with a certain set of battle tactics in mind.
Thanks so much for your kind words! Near the end of the video has a few suggested compositions, but a few more will probably be included in a future video!
Nice video
Please make one for medium, heavy and assault mechs
A similar modification for the JVN-10 is to switch from SRM-6's to -4's, and then add a single medium laser to each side torso bay. This has the same exact weight profile, whilst adding 1 point of damage per bay over the base model, and it's more ammo efficient. It will also do 4 points of damage more than the "MERC" variant.
Great video
Solid teir list . Only issue is fear of p hawk. It's dangerous to lights but truth be told its to hot to keep pace with most lights .
Hmm, really? In the games I've played I usually just keep moving and zapping with my Large Laser at medium range. Then swap to Large Laser + single medium laser + machine guns at shorter ranges. Alternatively I can just do 2 mediums + machine guns if the target it already open in a few locations or I need to cool down. But then again I usually fight against MegaMek
@@nerdyOveranalyzed nothing wrong with what your doing its when the jump jets are being used and you have spider jumping around at Mach 2. Edit: to mention that your content is golden and worthy of the sub.
Hey Otto! I see you still respond here, and I want to leave some kinda positive/negative feedback. Hope it’s not disheartening! I really like the theming and presentation on your channel
As a lot of others have pointed out, you discount jump jets, and also overvalue some mechs while discounting others. The panther (much like the IRL German tank COUGH COUGH COUGH) is much better on paper than in practice. Also, you state machine guns are inefficient against infantry, which simply is not true. Let me preface, that I make UA-cam videos as a hobby and I 100% understand that hindsight is 20/20 and you can’t magically alter your vid at this point even if new information does arise. I showed this video to a member of my playgroup with much more experience, and genuinely, I thought your metric was an amazing idea. Personally, I don’t think it worked quite flawlessly, because anything less than a 6/9/6 is really not workable for a light mech. I think perhaps you were a bit lenient with the mobility characteristics? Ultimately I’m just getting into the game, so I think vids like these are an amazing resource so I hope you make more. I just think these results are very hypothetical in terms of tabletop or even the video games! But, it’s also an opportunity for future content! Oh and PS: if you haven’t already, please consider making a video about the Stalker, it’s pilots favored a tactic where they’d hide inside a building and busting out like the kool aid man to surprise opponents!!!
Hey Dead End thanks for taking the time to write! Glad you and your play group are enjoying the content.
The critique on the jump jets is valid. A few people commented about the discount on jump jets and I've been reconsidering making a few grading tweaks as I learn more. Ultimately no list will be perfect as the game isn't solved yet (which I really like). So take it as one slime's researched opinion on tactics. It could be wrong and I'd be willing to change it at a later date!
Stalker does look pretty nice!
@@nerdyOveranalyzedas long as people can understand what you value/look for specifically, it makes it really easy for you to receive Feedback and have everyone on the same page. I think that’s why the concept appeals to me. I also think your approach to content is refreshing. Please by all means make more, I’m subbed
One house rule I'm considering for the ex-Macross designs like Stinger, Wasp, and Valkyrie is to allow the units with jump capability to perform an airborne drop onto the battlefield as reserves. Given their relative uselessness in the role of a mech due to being so lightly armored and slow, and due to their "unseen" and (shudder) LAM varients, I see them as more super-heavy battlearmor than true mechs. An airborne insertion tactic into the backfield or sudden drop on objectives brings a unique usefulness that really isn't overpowered by their aenemic weapons or armor.
Love raptorial-style mechs like the Locust!
What was the FLE-14 built for? It's kinda cool looking!
How terrifying are infantry? Aircraft?
Also true with Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries. I kept 3 JVN-10F with Medium Lasers at all times until I started getting more heavies and benched the light mechs.
That Javelin type's survivability is insane as it keeps its MLasers on the torso so it can use its arms as akin to shields to stay in the fight for a crazy long time. I fielded them vs Phoenix Hawks and they were fine.
Fantastic!
Going to build the whole company.
4 lights: 3 Javelin 10F, 1 Firestarter.
4 Medium: 3 Wolverine 6M, 1 Hunchback
3 Heavy: 2 Warhammer 6D, 1 Archer 2S
1 Assault: AWS 8Q Awesome
Scout Lance: 3x Javelin, Wolverine 6M (command mech quirk)
Battle Lance: 2x Warhammer 6D, 2x Wolverine 6M
Command Lance: Awesome, Archer, Firestarter, Hunchback
There are some light modifications that can be made to the Javelins as discussed, and the Archer 2S can be tweaked into an absolute monster. The Firestarter: remove the rear firing flamer, all the MGs/Small lasers, for 3 Flamers, three Medium Lasers, armor and heatsinks.
Thanks!
Excellent. Please do the other weight categories.
Thanks for your comment. More coming up!
One thing not covered in the calculations: While I realize that for most people it's mostly flavor, one thing I like to play with when GM'ing scenario games is raiding missions where battlefists/hand manipulators actually come in handy, especially for light mechs (though lyran scout lances generally have plenty of carry capacity). It's pretty niche for most people but as I play it, if people want to pick up the objective I like to let them run with it. Literally.
Oh ho! My fav is the Flea, since piloted in MW4Mercs. Just glad the Wolfs Dragoons came back with improved variants later on! I pushed and advocat HARD to see it included in MWO. Got my wish and since we can optimize our mech better, it and its cousin, the Locust is real fun to zoom in and ANNOYING to deal with 😁 The Flea are a bit slower than Locust but brings bit more firepower and better hardpoint placement. Raven, Firestarter, Locust, Valkyrie and Wolfhound is my follow ups
I overwhelmingly agree, with one caveat, which is the value of a mech changes based on what you want from the lance. For example, if you have a lance of two valkyries, a locust, and a fire jav, then you have a highly mobile fire support and harassment lance with a spotter for indirect fire and a close protection mech. Conversely, if you are conducting COIN Ops then a Locust, two firestarters, and a regular Jav or commando would be ideal for dealing with infantry and hardened targets. Urbanmechs and panthers make for solid mobile pillboxes on static garrison duties, especially if you expect to encounter light raiding units that their AC 10s and PPCs will rip to shreds, and would do well with two urbies, a panther, and a valkyrie. Now, if you are taking on generalist contracts, absolutely it is recommended to purchase the mechs with the greatest utility value. However, if you can negotiate for, and subsequently design for, specific contract types, then you can absolutely tailor your lances to very particular mission tasks and likely negotiate for less commonly available mechs to boot. Except for the Dracs.
For sure for sure! Things can be tuned to mission for sure. You hit it on the head, I 100% agree by pointing out a mercenary company would want to take generalists rather than spend a ton of cash on the best mech for every contingency.
Wait you used to work with the combine??? Who let a Combine lover into the Company, someone get me the recruiter.
Hehe still this, as always, has been insanely informative and I LOVE the inclusion of the one commenter's Javelin modification I remember seeing. Adhering to the All Mighty C-Bill as well as availability gives the perfect perspective for me since I want to be as realistic as i can with the Stygian Guard Merc Company of mine. And examples like using larger dropships and how Locusts can provide extra room is extremely helpful too to imagine. Well done, you continue to outdo yourself and I'll continue to praise you to anyone I can.
Glad you're enjoying the videos and thank you for spreading the word about the channel!
@@nerdyOveranalyzed Happy to! I got at least one other interested and invested in the channel and I'd like to add more
I know the Wolfhound is too late to this show, but I would love to see its evaluation.
I was really looking forward to seeing the Wolfhound as well. Definitely my favorite light mech.
Poor Ravens. Love the look. But, it'd take something like access to Star League level tech for that thing to not die off in the next, oh, 3-5 years or so ;p
Yeah, but what are the odds of that? Lets get real here. :^)
In all seriousness, I really appreciate the effort you put in to making this and ranking the various lights against each other. It's very informative and easy to understand.
This is awesome and I do like how it's making me rethink things (I loathe the wimpy locust but when you mentioned how it can ALLOW MORE SPACE!...oh be still my logistics loving heart).
However, something kept nagging the back of my brain and it crystallized when you hit the Jenner.
Cost.
You mention it several times and it's a fantastic point. However, I propose it might skew the ratings. Rather, how much weight is given to the consideration and is it applied evenly.
For example, you mention something being one shotted by a P Hawk as a detriment. Sure. I see and agree.
But then, what about something that is only a one shot?
Wouldnt the ammo concerns of the Javelin be something? Would energy designs inherently have an edge? Not only for ammo cost but the risk of kabooming oneself?
Sure, probably not the biggest deal for light mechs but curious when we hit heavier tiers.
Something that was bouncing around the brain watching this awesome vid.
Edit: oi! And then you hit the end with availability and resources! That alone should see the spider bumped up a tier or two.
lol, i love your punchy jokes dropped in... and wow, very thorough. A person can even pause and read and learn even more. I take it this is based on a mechwarrior campaign or RPG ruleset? I've only played standard classic battletech a couple times myself.
Thanks! I'm using Battletech Classic!
Hi, thanks for all of the useful analysis. You often mention the Phoenix Hawk as a benchmark for performance, but I haven't been able to locate a video on that 'Mech specifically. Have I overlooked it? If not, please consider doing one, as I'm sure it would be exceptionally useful.
Hey Headhunter thanks for the comment!
I haven't made a video on the Phoenix Hawk yet as I'm going through all the heavy designs at the moment. It'll probably get a video sometime when I start moving into the medium mechs.
@@nerdyOveranalyzed I'm looking forward to it, I'm sure it will be very informative!
Very well done sir loved the video would love to talk and discuss battle tech with you.
Thanks! I'm thinking about doing a stream in the future!
I think you have missed something here when you broke up mobility and defence into two different categories. The Spider on paper looks bad with it's low armour values, but when you will be jumping 7-8 hexes a turn then you suddenly have a +4 hit defence. Low armour does not matter much when you are not taking hits to begin with. Since most mechs will at least walk each turn, that modifier goes up to +5 and +6/+7 if the attacker ran/jumped themselves. Considering base gunnery skill is 4, the average to hit chance vs a spider will be 9+ or higher.
Now 9+ on 2D6 is only a 27.77% chance, 10+ is only 16.66% chance. That is just to land a HIT on the spider, to hit a LEG specifically is that and then it's either: a 22.22% chance to hit a leg from the front/rear or a 24.99% chance to hit a leg from the side. What all that means is that as long as the spider has jumped 7-8 hexes, then the chance of an enemy who has moved hitting a leg is only 6.9% for a walk or 4.1% for a run. All of that is based on NO OTHER modifiers like weapon range or terrain.
Now this is true for other mech designs, but the spider is an example where real battlefield outcomes prove it to be at least mid to high tier as a light mech.
What about the Mirage FS9 - M ? Love this cant wait for the Medium, Heavy and Assault versions. I have 2 Javelin 10Fs
Great video love the original content.
Thanks a bunch man, happy you enjoyed!
Thanks for the great videos! I was curious where you found the mech %s by IS House? It’s genius work in my opinion.
Xtol Rats table!
@@nerdyOveranalyzed Thanks!
Love it
As a professional Capellen hunter, I personally find the Raven to be a fine striker with a bit of reworking. Ripping out the animic electronic warfare systems to free up space for larger engines or weapons. Maybe both once that helm memory core gets released to the public. Free parts are decently common if you know where Liou's birds roost and all in all I'm quite fond of my two.
Since you were doing the Scout mechs (or at least how good a mech is at scouting)...I kinda feel you missed one. A big one.
Sure its not a light mech...but the *Charger* is a scout mech. It's just...not a very light scout mech. :P
Lol, we'll get to the Charger for sure. :^)
Ask the Lyrans and they'll say an Atlas is a scout 'Mech.
Running the Wasp Land-Air-Mech, with the Taurian Concordate, on Roguetech online. It does so much for a 30 ton flying light mech.
Thanks!! Your good !
No, you're good! :^)
This is a fantastic video - Cheers.
One thing, noob question - where is it said that a locust occupies only 0.5 of a bay space? I ask as someone preparing a merc campaign for a playgroup - could be very useful.
Sure, Sarna should have the information on the mech quirk and the quirk itself~!
@@nerdyOveranalyzed Thanks very much man. Keep up the good work!
@@rabbitrockfestival You're welcome!
Firestarter is SICK
Hello Nerdy.
First, let me say that you've made a good video, and that your overall set of criteria is not 'out of hand', and mostly logical in nature.
Although the Javelin (modified) is a 'better Mech', I downgrade it due to carrying an ammo using weapon. Light Mechs just cannot survive an ammo explosion, and carrying that much ammo tends to make most Pilots wary of closing in on targets due to worry about said ammo explosion.
My choice would be the LCT-1E(a) Locust. The 'standard' 1E is 'under armed' with the 2 small lasers. The (a) sub-variant rips out the small lasers, and moves one of the medium lasers from the torso, to put a medium laser in each arm, as well as the original's medium laser in the center torso. This gives the Mech 3 medium lasers for added firepower to the design, no ammo-using weaponry, and still maintains the Locust's speed.
Another variant, the LCT-1E(b) Locust, merely removes the small lasers entirely, devoting the saved tonnage for additional armor across the Mech's chassis. This is a decent Scout Mech, even if it sacrifices 1/3rd of the firepower of the (a) variant. It is a bit harder to mission kill, due to thicker armor, and a choice that some Mercenary commanders would choose over said firepower.
Personally, I would always keep the Phoenix Hawk as a Scout Command Mech. And due to the Locust's size, I would devote 3 out of 12 bays to a single Phoenix Hawk, and 4 Locusts for the Scouting component for a Company formation. Yes, this does reduce the overall number of larger Mechs by one, but I feel it is well worth it, since the Scout component can actually take down individual Heavy and Assault Mechs by themselves.
Using the Scout Lance to find the Enemy is good. Utilizing the Lance to take out that single Heavy being rotated to the 'front', to replace some other Mech that has developed a fault, is fantastic. Given some luck, the Scout Lance might even take down the Mech retiring for repair as well.
Just some food for thought.
After thought: Altering the Phoenix Hawk to the PXH-1D variant removes its own ammunition explosion chances, thus making the Mech more reliable, at the expense of anti-infantry utility. Using the 1D variant in conjunction with the LCT-1E(a), and LCT-1E(b) Locusts, frees the Lance for longer duration scouting missions, and missions behind Enemy lines, where resupply is nil, or highly questionable. Basically, the Scout Lance in such a deep penetration mission would only 'retire' back to their Drop Ship, when enough of the Lance has taken enough damage to really need re-armoring, and repairs. Turnaround time for the Scout Lance in such conditions would depend upon damages sustained. Most likely, light damage to the Locust's fusion engines, replacement of blown off arms, and subsequent weapon replacement. All of which would be 'minor' issues, allowing the Lance to resume its mission much quicker than the repair and replacements for the heavier Mechs of the Company.