I think this probably doesn't outline downsides well enough. It can be mega feels bad for a player new to a tourney who doesn't have great time management to get 2 turns to your 5. And while you might not care, it might mean that person doesn't feel inclined to return. It further advantages experienced players over inexperienced ones. And, frankly, it adds a layer of stress and cognitive burden even if a newer player plays at a reasonable pace. Now I still think clocks are reasonable and create equity. I'm personally fine to use them. But they are not as downside free as this video suggests.
Sure there are of course downsides but the intent of the video was to explain the why and how vs a pros and cons. Primarily because it’s such a widely accepted element now so much that it’s become a staple part of competitive play. This recent LVO was a great example where judges mandated players who were undefeated after day 1 to play their games with a clock with no questions asked starting day 2. -Jake
To touch on what you said about "feels bad" only getting two turns. On the same token, it feels pretty bad being on the receiving end of a slow player. I had a tourney playing against Death Guard. He was slow. Not because he was trying to be but because of all of his rules, auras, psychic powers, etc. We got to finish the top of his turn three which caused me to lose the game, and blocked me out of a top spot in the tourney.
Definitely a case-by-case basis. If it's an RTT and I don't care about my score, I will definitely assist the new player and ensure they have a good time because me winning 1 game does not outshine building a community member. I would definitely offer to do practice games so that they can do time management better. After all, time management is an important aspect of the game just as much as making decisions. If a person doesn't feel inclined to return because they take 1.5 hours to only play 2 turns, then maybe competitive play isn't for them and they're better off doing beer and pretzel 5 hour games. However, it is definitely not fair to me if I am in the running for a top spot and get slowplayed down to a 60 or 70 point win or even a loss despite having tabled my opponent but we're only on turn 2. I could be at the top of 4-1 and still get 3rd, but with a 60 or 70 point win due to a slow player, that will knock me down to the bottom of 4-1s, which could be as low as 9th.
yeah, I learned this the hard way, played against an genestealer cult player on a tournament. He played with the old codex and I wasn't familair with his army. Just came past my 2 turn movement fase and the game was over. That smug lil bugeyed smart*ss of a player was utilising this as a tactic to get cheap and easy wins and I fell for it. That little prick..Since then I have the chessclock app on my electronics devices I schlep along, never again!
If you or your opponent times out the only thing the player with no time can do is finish the current action they are taking. So if they are mid roll, that is their last roll. If they are mid movement they finish that movement. Once anything like that is completed they are only allowed to roll saves. If when they are only allowed to roll saves feel free to call a judge if you feel like they are intentionally moving slowly at that point. As long as you or your opponent has time left you contine on with the game as normal, it isn't an automatic end of the game, or even an automatic loss, if one person runs out of time before the other player. I'll have Jake add the link to all the rules to the video description so you can read the finer details for yourself. -Lio
Thanks for the information. As far as scoring Secondaries at the end of the Turn/Battle Round, would the clock be paused for this or continue on the active player's time? If a player times out, would they continue to score secondaries such as Engage On All Fronts, and Primaries if they happen to be on Objectives at the end of their Command phase? As far as I understand it, they are not allowed to take game actions, however they would still 'play' out their turn by skipping through the phases.
Anytime! Only judges should be pausing the clock so the clock runs on whichever players turn it is if they need time to score. If a player times out, they may score and make save rolls only. - Jake
This upload was perfect timing :D. GT this weekend
Sweet! Best of luck man. Which GT are you attending?
-Jake
@@BlackRabbitGaming Thanks! The Deckbox in Halifax, Canada
I like those dice
Thanks! We sold out of the purple but dice and objective markers are always available if you're interested on our website.
-Jake
I think this probably doesn't outline downsides well enough. It can be mega feels bad for a player new to a tourney who doesn't have great time management to get 2 turns to your 5. And while you might not care, it might mean that person doesn't feel inclined to return. It further advantages experienced players over inexperienced ones. And, frankly, it adds a layer of stress and cognitive burden even if a newer player plays at a reasonable pace.
Now I still think clocks are reasonable and create equity. I'm personally fine to use them. But they are not as downside free as this video suggests.
Sure there are of course downsides but the intent of the video was to explain the why and how vs a pros and cons. Primarily because it’s such a widely accepted element now so much that it’s become a staple part of competitive play. This recent LVO was a great example where judges mandated players who were undefeated after day 1 to play their games with a clock with no questions asked starting day 2.
-Jake
To touch on what you said about "feels bad" only getting two turns. On the same token, it feels pretty bad being on the receiving end of a slow player. I had a tourney playing against Death Guard. He was slow. Not because he was trying to be but because of all of his rules, auras, psychic powers, etc. We got to finish the top of his turn three which caused me to lose the game, and blocked me out of a top spot in the tourney.
Definitely a case-by-case basis. If it's an RTT and I don't care about my score, I will definitely assist the new player and ensure they have a good time because me winning 1 game does not outshine building a community member. I would definitely offer to do practice games so that they can do time management better. After all, time management is an important aspect of the game just as much as making decisions. If a person doesn't feel inclined to return because they take 1.5 hours to only play 2 turns, then maybe competitive play isn't for them and they're better off doing beer and pretzel 5 hour games.
However, it is definitely not fair to me if I am in the running for a top spot and get slowplayed down to a 60 or 70 point win or even a loss despite having tabled my opponent but we're only on turn 2. I could be at the top of 4-1 and still get 3rd, but with a 60 or 70 point win due to a slow player, that will knock me down to the bottom of 4-1s, which could be as low as 9th.
yeah, I learned this the hard way, played against an genestealer cult player on a tournament. He played with the old codex and I wasn't familair with his army. Just came past my 2 turn movement fase and the game was over. That smug lil bugeyed smart*ss of a player was utilising this as a tactic to get cheap and easy wins and I fell for it. That little prick..Since then I have the chessclock app on my electronics devices I schlep along, never again!
Oh no! But yes, many of us have experienced this very scenario for sure.
-Jake
What’s the general rule if my opponent times out during turns 3-4? Is the game just over?
If you or your opponent times out the only thing the player with no time can do is finish the current action they are taking. So if they are mid roll, that is their last roll. If they are mid movement they finish that movement. Once anything like that is completed they are only allowed to roll saves. If when they are only allowed to roll saves feel free to call a judge if you feel like they are intentionally moving slowly at that point. As long as you or your opponent has time left you contine on with the game as normal, it isn't an automatic end of the game, or even an automatic loss, if one person runs out of time before the other player. I'll have Jake add the link to all the rules to the video description so you can read the finer details for yourself. -Lio
Thanks for the information. As far as scoring Secondaries at the end of the Turn/Battle Round, would the clock be paused for this or continue on the active player's time? If a player times out, would they continue to score secondaries such as Engage On All Fronts, and Primaries if they happen to be on Objectives at the end of their Command phase? As far as I understand it, they are not allowed to take game actions, however they would still 'play' out their turn by skipping through the phases.
Anytime! Only judges should be pausing the clock so the clock runs on whichever players turn it is if they need time to score. If a player times out, they may score and make save rolls only.
- Jake
WHAT 5 TURNS?GAME IS OVER IN 2 TURNS!
Me, an intellectual who plays speed chess.
Sets the timer to 5 minutes.