Carbon Steel Knives vs Stainless Steel Knives - Which Is Best For Bushcraft?
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- In this video we discuss the main differences between carbon steel and stainless steel knives, and which is better for bushcraft.
This question is subject to a lot of controversy both online and around the camp fire and we hope that by the end of this video you have a much clearer idea of the main differences and which steel is most appropriate for you, depending on use and environment.
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The sheath is another big factor to consider regarding rust. In wet conditions, a leather sheath can hold moisture far longer than kydex. Even when treated, leather will hold more moisture than kydex. which leads to rust, especially with carbon steel. I personally own both and do not notice much of a difference. A Buck (420HC) knife is SS, but easy to field sharpen. It is a sticky subject and people have strong opinions about this topic. I am just glad to have any knife out in the woods.
I think that knives makers sells their product with leather sheaths as an excuse to charge more, like Lionsteel, I love their knives but I could do without the leather sheat.
Leather sheaths ain't bad at all, if you get water in it just take the knife out and put in a dry spot to air out for like 15 minutes to an hour if you soaked it.
I have been a carbon luvr lately as the history of broken stainless blades has bothered me. The roll over and quick fix only works once before it chips has frustrated me. Carbon just works! Hot vinegar patina when new after a scotch brite scrubbing and alcohol rinse including handle is great! A yearly touchup is quick and easy. I use vegi oil and my 2 part beezwax, 3 part coconut oil preservative for winter storage.
An excellent presentation. It's so refreshing to watch a video where one can actually learn something. I only wish there were more like you on UA-cam. Thank you.
Great comparison. If you want to protect your carbon steel blade from rust you can use Autosol metal polish) you can get it from car shops in the UK) Its great at preventing rust as it puts a coat of wax on the steel and its also food safe. I use it on all my knives before they leave my workshop. You can also use it on a leather strop as a very fine grinding compound, it puts a sickly sharp edge on your knife. Great video atb.
For the carbon rust thing I personally wipe it on my shirt every time The knife comes in contact with something wet and I clean it and oil it every week is that a good routine
Yes, I have a knife that has been in the gulf of Mexico and the boundary waters in Minnesota, I use a simmilar maintenance routine and it has never rusted.
@@garethbaus5471 what kind of oil do you use then
@@punisher288 whatever is food safe and available, when traveling I mostly use some sort of lip balm such as chapstick because it is portable.
With all things the same, like your carbon content, a stainless steel knife will stay sharper longer than a carbon steel knife because chromium carbides are several magnitudes harder than iron carbides. It'll take longer to sharpen it, but it will resist where much better than an equally crafted carbon steel knife.
I like the video but I disagree on one point. Carbon steel does not hold a better edge. If you look at the part of the carbon knife that will rust first it's the edge. Because it's thin and not protected. Any oxidation on the edge will dull it. Carbon steel will form oxidation all the time and rust can appear on the edge after only two hours.
Of course a little stropping will remove the oxidation and your good to go again. But it's the same with stainless. Strop your knife at the end of the day just using your leather belt and the knife stays sharp all the time.
I always carry two knives in the bush. One stainless for food prep and small whittling tasks with a very sharp and more delicate edge and one carbon with a different more robust edge for the rough work like batoning. This way I can be out in the bush a month without ever having to use a sharpening stone but just my leather belt for some stropping.
Thanks for the good discussion. It seems, carbon steel loving folks don't appreciate/understand the need for stainless, until they become exposed to a constantly damp and/or salty environment. I live the the Pacific NW USA near the ocean, and a carbon knife can rust easily even when not used. Maintenance is important but it is a bother if you use knives only periodically. Also, from what I know, many early stainless steels had issues with hardness and sharpening (which continues to negatively influence some perspectives). As you said, modern stainless steels are better now. I use both types of knife steels. I would prefer carbon steel, but since I moved near the ocean, my environment continues to influence me to favor stainless. Thanks again for the discussion. =)
David K I live near the ocean and I put protective oil and it never rusted before. Its all in the maintenance.
Carbon Steel knives are still around that were used before and during the Civil War. They have been used to cut out the states we know as the United States and are just as capable today as they were 150 years ago. They've seen the worst weather conditions that this planet has to offer and they're still around today. Your argument for stainless still is inane. Sailors crossed the oceans and fought wars with carbon steel weapons until the invention of stainless steel and wide use in cutlery and firearms in the 1940's. Try a better thought out argument for your reasoning.
@@This_Old_Man_68 I think you're wrong. By your reasoning, you'd have to wait at least another 100 years to make a fair comparison! I use both steels and find they both perform excellently. Carbon is great, no argument with that, but there's a reason why Stainless took over - it's lower maintenance, it has a cleaner look, it is more resistant to corrosion, and it imparts no taint to food. Even so, I just prefer the 'feel' of Carbon.
3000 years ago people were seriously wowed by iron, the new wonder metal. A lot longer ago bronze caused something of a stir. It's called progress, and it continues to this day.
@Universal Kombat Not sure many people would call stainless steel a novelty. I take it you stick with your horse and cart in that case...oh no, that uses a 'novelty' wheel - best avoided then.
@Universal Kombat I don't know mate, because I haven't clue what you're talking about.
Sorry, but you miss the acctual state of art in many aspects.
1. How come carbon steel can hold an edge longer and be easier to sharpen in the same time, since both sharpenning and wearing of the blade is based on the same mechanism - abrasion. Miracle? No, if something is easier to sharpen, will get gull faster. I will not go into structural aspects of the steels, but this mentioned above relation between sharpenning abbility and wearing abbility it's a fact.
Of course when comparing steels of the same grade.
2. Mora bushcrafl black is not covered with any epoxy but DLC coating. DLC means Diamond-Like Carbon. It's extremely durable coating created by deposition of caron vapors via plasma transport. It's chemically inert and reduces the friction.
You welcome!
projekctx
7:41
The sharpening issue with stainless has more to do with it being harder to remove a bur on most stainless blades especially the blades that are around the same price as simple carbon steel knives such as the Mora and Opinel carbon steel variants.
I'm planning to carry a hcs fixed blade as my bush craft and a stainless steel as my food knife.
Great video. I took the plunge and went carbon steel they aren't hard to maintain and a little rust won't stop me ;).
same here,think it is also a personal preference
Thank you so much for this video, really helped me out. I was already opting for carbon, but had some doubts.
I have a buck model 278 and Im very curious about whether or not it will throw a spark from a piece of flint
I enjoy the content in your videos but I have just one friendly suggestion. The volume level of your videos (all the ones I have viewed anyway) is quite low. At least your vocals are. I have no trouble hearing the ambient background noises. Perhaps to you this isn't the case. You do already know what you were saying in the video after all, so it's easy for you to hear the words when you re-watch the video. Also, those who know you will have no trouble understanding you. For the rest of us, you have a quiet, fast, accented voice.
It is always better for us to turn down the volume & enjoy your video at this end than turn the volume to maximum & have to strain throughout the entire video to hear what you are saying. Perhaps for future videos you can move the camera closer, use a mike or just speak clearly & speak up. I don't want to miss anything you have to say, thank-you. Cheers.
Carbon cut better it's easier to sharpen and it's more tought BUT if you take the best type of staintless like VG10 or Elmax it's an other strory
I like this comparison.
Opinel.. an man of culture.
Amazing commentary but couldn't hear it well.
I love my opinel scalpell no8 ♡ have the inox blade will get carbon soon
Excellent info my friend-got to make a good ferro rod part of basics, thanks
Edge retention also depends on the heat treatment used by the company.
SO many times I've heard people 'claim' that "only a carbon steel blade can produce sparks from a fire steel" (they actually mean a ferrocerium rod, no one tries to use their knife as the fire steel). People just spewing what they 'heard' without knowing what they're talking about, sadly. Don't mean you specifically, most of this is 'generally speaking'.
You are correct, anything with a sharp edge and hard enough will throw sparks off a ferrocerium rod; glass, rocks, aluminum, ceramic...as long as it's harder then the rod and sharp enough to 'shave' the material off the rod it'll work. Never understood why people think they'll be unable to spark a rod unless they have a carbon steel blade with a 90 degree edge. That's simply ludicrous thinking to believe one should FREEZE cuz their knife doesn't meet someone else's standard (often a misinformed standard at that).
And the whole 'has to have a 90 degree edge' is inaccurate as well. The edge just has to be sharp enough, 90 just happens to be an easy angle for the back of a knife. 120 degree obtuse edge can still spark a 'ferro rod', if its a good clean sharp edge. It's simply easier to do with a 90 then an angle larger then 90 and of course so much easier with an edge sharper then 90 degrees. WHY do all these 'preppers', bushcrafters, knife 'experts' keep saying 90? If you don't have a sharp edge on the back of your knife, use the damn cutting edge, it'll DESTROY that 'ferro rod' in no time throwing masses of sparks (use the cutting edge as a last resort, a fire is infinately more important the the tiny little loss of edge on your knife, you'll still have the REST of the blade to cut with).
As one of your commenters already brought up, the heat treatment of a steel has a lot more to do with the edge retention and sharpening of a blade, then what it's made from. An HRC55 CS isn't going to stand up to a HRC60 SS, but that SS is going to take more work to sharpen, its HARDER, duh. And the same applies if the HRCs were reversed...harder blade, harder to sharpen.
Like anything else, tents vs hammocks, big knives vs axes, flat grind vs scandi, survival vs bushcraft....carbon vs stainless...what works for one person doesn't mean its for everyone, nor is what works for 'everyone' necessarily the best choice for one person. It's only a valid debate when 'everyone' is in SAME situation (enviroment, budget, training, experience)...and we're NEVER exactly the same.
The person that uses their knife frequently ( the weekly bushcrafter/suvivalist, the instructor, the 3 season camper) and can keep up with the maintenance might be best served by CS...the guy that only gets out when the weather is nice but the knife resides in a drawer in its sheath the other 96% of the year might be better off with SS (as might those in damp enviroments more then dryer ones).
Fact: (and I hope all these 'experts' are reading) what works for 'you' (the 'experts') doesn't mean your opinion of which is the 'best' steel for your situation counts for a single ounce of creditbiity for anyone else...but yet, few 'experts' preceed their opinion with 'for me' or 'in my case' or 'where I live', but rather they preceed their opinion with 'THIS IS THE BEST' or 'EVERYONE SHOULD BUY' or 'WORLD'S GREATEST'. Well, bubble bursting time, NO THEY AREN'T!!! They are 'that' for YOU. What is 'that' for me, I'll determine myself. Please, let me know what you like, why you like it...but GOD don't try to convince me what you think is what I need. (generally speaking to all the 'experts', not the author of this video)
Another fact, regardless what kind of steel, what kind of grind, what kind of edge, what tool..."The best tool for the job is the one you have with you, not the one you left at home"
Thumbs up for a RATIONAL video on the topic of 'steels'
MrRocque actually carbon steel knives can throw a spark when struck against flint. Stainless steel will not.
You are correct...but the comment above is not about FLINT, it touched on a ferrocerium rod; or a 'flint steel', 'fire rod', 'ferro rod' or all the other terms misused for a ferrocerium rod. It wasn't about the use of steel on flint. I never said stainless steel could, on a flint; nor did I even touch on the whole 'flint and steel' topic. As such, I'm unsure what your reply is addressing. The word 'flint' doesn't even appear anywhere in my comment, so...what's with the CS and flint 'news'?
Yes, the term 'fire steel' is misused to refer to a 'ferro rod', but really, there's nothing that truly is just a 'fire steel'. But, since the quote I used is about CS on a 'fire steel' (which in itself makes no sense, why would you strike steel on steel...and why bring up 'flint' when no one said anything about stainless steel on flint).
Very enjoyable comment to read MrRocque. I really enjoy the debate this subject brings up. It is true that the real game changer is the heat treatment process. If I made this video again, I would certainly focus more on that, but for an 'overview' I think this video does the job okay.
ATB
Calum
I would say: if you want to spend a lot of money on a good knife get one with modern stainless steels like elmax
If you want a cheaper but still good knife go with cs
Even soft stainlesses when heat treated properly will have wear resistant carbides that will out perform carbon steels. If you can get carbides to appear in s110v at 58 HRC it will smoke any carbon steel in the wear resistance department at 58 HRC, IF a large number of carbides are present.
Very interesting, thank you from France
Thanks for this great information!
Thanks bud! Great vid! Your info helped me a lot! =)
how about carbon steel and 3v for bushcraft, or a few days outdoors, which would you prefer?
I use booth and booth are fine, it really boils down to personal preference, stainless is for my taste to much an hassle to get back to sharp so usual i gravitate more to carbon
Will 420hc throw a spark off a piece of flint? In theory it should since even though its technically stainless steel it is also high carbon steel.... Am i right?
No, the chromium content is what makes stainless steels unsuitable for flint and steel, it simply dousnt burn easily enough to throw a good spark.
Everyone says victorinox saks are easy to sharpen, as I understand they are stainless. I also thought stainless steels were tougher.
Thanks mate! looking into making my own knife and was wondering what metal to use..
@@andrewwilmot404 thanks! Reply is a little late though hahaha I've already made 4 knifes, using 1095 and 1080 (i think?) Steel 😅 thanks anyways!
Great video
So carbon is better?
I cannot say that I am a big fan of mora. Had mora robust and 2000 carbon and stainless steel, both got chipping after chopping small portions of oak. Wish I could upload pictures in the comments. I know it’s only £10-15 but even simple kitchen knife didn’t chip when I attempted to do the same.
Robust and 2000 have very delicate edge angle, 10 per side, so it cuts better but if you compare it in chopping hard wood or bones, with any knife which has let’s say 15-20 per side (common angle I see on average pocket/survival/kitchen knives these days), it will chip or bend much faster. It has even little to do with heat treatment or steel.
@@voyager667 nah I ve got the same thickness and angle grind knives and they did not roll on anything like that
@@asd7959 what knives, exactly?
@@voyager667 hultafors ok4
scandi grind is NOT good for wood.
Even my very finnish big knife has an axe grind.
Cody Lundin said that a carbon steel knifes edge can only handle a day of use before needing to be sharpened, so no carbon steel will not hold its edge longer.
Depending on the level of use most stainless steel knives will only hold an edge for a day of use. Unless you use one of the high end stainless steel blades with high hardness and carbide content, the difference in edge retention isn't going to be significant.
I honestly think this comes down to personal preference and not being a dick to the things you use everyday. I prefer carbon it's easier to sharpen it does NOT hold an edge especially when it's compared to stainless. In regards to the rust problem as long as you can dry the blade within an hour you're generally good to go. Helps to oil it as well like once a week but if you don't have access to oil. Doesn't matter to much as long as the blade is not fully submerged. But if I was forced into an environment where I'm drenched for more than an hour Stainless is the way to go. I generally go by the rule if I'm going to be wet the knife is going to be wet. So If I can't get dry within an hour I'm not bringing a carbon blade but in a "survival" setting or just the back country. I would personally bring carbon the logic behind this is if you're in that type of setting and you're not getting dry/warm within an hour you're flat out not making it out of there. If you somehow do you're coming out fucked up just like the blade of your knife. The other reasoning behind it is carbon is much much easier to field sharpen. Anyways, great topic love seeing other peoples' opinions and reasoning.
Nice EKA btw
Just put a patina and it is ok
I like carbon steel.
You don't need to oil a carbon steel knife, just make sure to clean it at the end of the day
I grew up hunting and fishing and once I got my first fancy $200 carbon knife it rusted because I didn't know what I was doing. The problem is that once I did know what I was doing, carbon can still get away from you. It just can. You can be out for 10 days and be aware of it and have it still rust on you in wet weather. Stainless wont get you that toughness that tool steel can but it's darn close and worth the trade off. If you are hunting locally for a day or weekend and plan on dressing multiple animals then a good tool steel will give you a more long lasting edge. If you are fishing or out for extended periods then SS is the only way to go. Then again, all the old mountain men used to carry butcher knives until the Bowie knife and even then most couldn't justify the cost of one. They would barter for a cooks knife and those were all obviously carbon steel. They managed.
R T - Yes indeed. I remember reading somewhere that Jim Bowie's knife at the famous sandbar fight was nothing more than a fanciful butcher's knife as well, it was only later, after he was famous, that the Bowie knife design was made popular after a knifemaker made him a custom fighting knife to wear. OK, enough geeking out. 😁 I find stainless steel holds up much better to the forces of nature than carbon steel, especially in the App. Mountains, where I've fished and hunted quite a lot, along with camping and hiking. I've had rust spots show up overnight, slight and surface-level. Moisture and salt is the two biggest enemies of carbon steel.
If you're going out for 10 days it's probably worthwhile to bring a small knife maintenance kit with you which would include a bit of oil. Even with a stainless knife you would at least want something to maintain the edge.
This would have been a good video 40 years ago when there weren’t good stainless steel knives around. You can buy stainless knives that are vastly superior in every aspect (except please of sharpening) to carbon steel knives.
I know you are making generalisations to streamline the video, but really you generalise to the point that your video loses its validity
obviously never tried a good carbon steel like made in the 19th and early 20th century
@@meinaccount7619 Yes I have, I've also tried carbon steels made in the modern era that are much better than those your referring to
@@deathbyastonishment7930 I agree, I have a lionsteel m4 in m390 and It can keep the edge for a long time and its also easy to sharp.
Just got a Helle Knife, High Carbon Steel Edge which is coated with Stainless Steel
@Joshua N - VG 10 steel?
Stainless will rust and will pit sometimes even worse than carbon steel.
Bullshit Carbon steel will rust so fast cutting fruits
I live in a coastal town and I've seen my fair share of rusted blades, stainless steel generally last better and requires lesser care than carbon.
stainless is ALWAYS a compromise. carbon is the way go go
@Emmanuel Goldstein it is, and rust isn't going to kill you and stuff so yea
@Emmanuel Goldstein Learning how to look after your gear will pay dividends in other aspects of your life.
Stop the knife sounds!!
Carbon is better
I absolutely love when someone says, yea but carbon steel rusts. It makes me just laugh and laugh. If rusts was a legitimate issue for blades or firearms, we'd never have been able to develop into the most powerful nation ever in the entire history of mankind until 1940 when we started to use stainless steel for knives and guns. It's a stupid argument made by stupid people.
"We"...
Say Heah M8, I just commissioned W. C. to make me the Master Woodsman in the CPM 154, talk to William Collins about the CPM 154 Stainless, I got the stainless for snowy and wet day trips. Actually I'm very impressed with my S30V's and 3V's and my CPM 154's Oh, Don't get me wrong, I have some great carbon 52100 and my 1095 CroVan's and 5160's, But some of the new stainless is easy to sharpen and hold great edge retention. I really like my Mora 2000 in the 12c27 and its Dual Grind also my Stromeng Bhuku STAK, same with my SISU and the San Mai 3's, I guess it depends on who makes them, Will Collins does a great job with his CPM 154 Tempering, But I luv a good knife and I have both.
sharpening a high carbon steel knife is easier than stainless? lol.
Yes, totally. Additional elements in Stainless can make the sharpening harder for several reasons: persistent burr, sharpening stone clogging, very high wear resistance due to vanadium carbides (harder to sharpen). Carbon steels in comparison are very simple steels and very simple to sharpen . But this is mainly a generalization, some stainless are pretty easy to maintain
Definitely the case many stainless steels tend to form a bur that is very hard to remove.