@@HikingWithCam I have the Wapta 30. It was plenty big enough for a 10 day trip, carrying 6 days of food at a time and it was the the most comfortable pack I've ever worn. It remained completely waterproof in 4 days straight of rain, as well.
I am not a backpacker/hiker. My buds and me planned a trip together in Colorado. We did a 45 mile loop in Snowmass with 12,000 ft of elevation. All of our packs were over 45 lbs, and we were not trained for the movement. 3 nights and 4 days. It was utterly painful, be we made it through. My next trip I will be mirroring your setup. Moving with 20-25 lbs vice 45 lbs will change everything. Thanks for posting your setup!!
For me the sweet spot is around 25 pounds (fully loaded), and the pack just gets lighter everyday as you eat through your food! The pack itself is a big component of keeping weight down. I switched from a Gregory pack to a ULA pack and saved close to 2 pounds. Good luck!
Waterproof breathables wet out and don't breath. A completely waterproof jacket or poncho with pit zips is the bomb. For a poncho I recommend one with sleeves and ventilation like pit zips or snaps. My next one is going to be The Packa. Rain Jackets I like are the Lightheart gear one or the Rock Front Rain pullover. Both have pit zips big enough to pull your arms completely out of while wearing. The Rock Front poncho looks pretty nice also.
I live in western NC and I prefer a poncho in the summer, as it's got much better ventilation than a jacket and it covers my pack. I have a Frog Toggs poncho and love it. I'll just a rain jacket in the winter since it offers better protection for my insulated layers. Happy hiking and may your beard touch your toes!
Thanks! I went to college in WNC. I ended up bringing an umbrella for this trip. I went through a rain storm with it, and have lots of thoughts about its effectiveness. In fact, I'm going to do a review video soon!
Thanks, Cam. Fantastic recap. I live in Central VA (Waynesboro). I hike within the SNP regularly. During these summer days (when it does rain) the best for me is to just get wet and wear a good cap to keep the rain out of my face. People will sweat in a poncho or rain jacket on account of the humidity. Unless the temps drop significantly, the best would be to keep the pack dry and change into one of those extra nice shirts when you get to camp. I, too, have a Durston tent. I purchased it from Drop some years ago. Although I currently have six other tents, Durston is my fav, my one and only tent that I use regardless of weather or location. I even setup "my Durston" in my backyard to take naps if I have not been backpacking in a while. Silly but really nice. Makes me feel good.....almost as good as being on trail! Thanks for the informative video.
Thanks for the info. I really love that you set up the xmid in the backyard to relax in. You’re giving me good ideas! 😁 For rain gear, I have decided to try an umbrella for this trip, so I got the gossamer gear UL umbrella. I’ll report back!
@@HikingWithCam Please do let us know how the umbrella works for you. I am eager to know about that. BTW, I just purchased the rain skirt...I have been eyeing it for some time and your video pushed me to hit the buy button. This will be a new experience for me to protect my legs in the rain in warm weather. I am heading to the 100 MW in mid August, and I will be taking the kilt with me in the event the temps are cool/cold. Thaanks again for your informative (and well edited) video.
@@ellen6006 Wow good luck with the 100 MW. My 76 year old dad finished the AT (after 25 years) last year, and I hiked with him from the Kennebec up to Monson where the 100 MW starts. I was nervous to leave him (he had a friend with him), but sure enough 10 days later, he popped out at Baxter SP, then finished the AT the next day. He says that the first 3 days are the toughest on the 100 MW then it get's a bit flatter before the final push of the AT! Have a great trip!
I can promise you that August in Virginia you will NOT need your puffy or beanie..... The 30* quilt is way overkill as well, a 50* will get you through. It will get no colder than maybe 75* at night (if you're lucky). You will need plenty of bug repellent and perhaps a bug net for your head. You will need rain gear, August is rainy season in VA. I've hiked the entire AT section in VA, lived here my entire life. I've logged thousands of miles on VA trails. Water sources are pretty abundant, so no worries there. I'll reinforce the bug repellent, ticks are just as bad as mosquitoes. I like the repellent wipes vs the spray.
Thanks. You’re probably right, I’ll take a close look at the weather as the trip gets closer. I feel like when I did Roan Mtn to Damascus in July last year I did use the puffy in the mornings. I think you’re right about the beanie though. For rain gear, I’m debating between a poncho , rain jacket and an umbrella/skirt combo. It might be a last minute call but I’m leaning umbrella/skirt/pack cover (since I just ordered it from gossamer gear.
love those Moabs! Solid, sturdy, comfy, and not bad when wet either. I have nice Pursuits also, but somehow the Moabs have my name on them...Great pillow idea, love a guy who sews! And the Xmid 1p is to die for of course.
I learn something new every time you post, Cam. I also tried getting into trail runners, but am going back to the Moabs for the Timberline trail. Glad I'm not the only one. Gonna use the tent stake idea and makeup remover. Thanks for sharing this!
Just found your channel and subscribed. I’m starting my section hikes this year. I live near Charlottesville so my first hike is Snp. Planning to do a 6 day 5 night trip. I have hiked all of it on day hikes so hopefully no surprises. Great to find you man and I’ll look forwarding to following your videos.
Thanks! SNP is a great place to start. Enjoy it. I live in Virginia, just outside of DC. I have two trips left until I finish the Virginia section of the AT, then I'll be heading north from the Pennsylvania line. I plan on doing about 150 miles a year (jumping around to different sections), and completing the AT sometime in the next 10 years.
This is great, thanks for sharing! I do shorter backpacking and section hikes, trying to figure out how to get my pack weight down short of buying new gear (I’ve replaced a lot this year, “losing” about 7 lbs)
@@HikingWithCam yes, new down quilt (love it!), new backpack (testing it on AT section hike in Monson this weekend), Lan Shan trekking pole tent and lighter mummy sleeping pad (don’t really love), toaks 550 pot and BSR stove. Plus trail runners instead of gortex hiking shoes (so much better!). Still more weight to lose, hoping to get base weight to 14-15 to enjoy every hike even more!
Great gear load out!!! I prefer trail runners for one reason...I do own the Merrell moab too but just so you know... They take FOREVER to dry.. if they get wet. ;)
I agree drying time is a big advantage of trail runners. I’ve had some bad experiences with quality control on some of the trail runners. For me personally they barely last 300 miles.
I hike in New York. For rain I primarily use a 7 oz umbrella with a helium jacket as backup or to use as a wind shirt. Most times I am just under the umbrella. Too hot for a poncho here this summer. Only time I do not use an umbrella is in high peaks of ADK or the White Mountains. For those trips I substitute helium rain pants for the umbrella.
I am really tempted to try out the umbrella for my trip next month. I have been dreading the sweat inducing jacket or poncho. I might just give it a try!
In my opinion, the best, first defense against any critters getting into your food is an odor-proof bag. Nylofume has worked great for me, so far. It's super light and holds ALL my smelly stuff - food, trash, cook gear and toiletries.
Mid/southern Virginia here, Virginia has schizophrenic weather but we're currently experiencing severe droughts right now, only sporadic and fleeting rains when it happens so honestly it's more probable you'll have zero issues with rain as opposed to some. Rain gear is just a huge ordeal generally speaking at any time Im learning. Many philosophies and schools of thought but everybody's way is the one true way.
Thanks. I've been nervously checking the comments on FarOut about water availability! Up in the DC area we seem to be moving into a rainier pattern, so hopefully you guys get some rain too.
The Nemo Tensor isn’t loud. It’s most likely the Durston floor creating friction noise to the pad because of the material that is used. If you set the pad up on the carpet or somewhere else you can test it. Simple fix is to get one of the Gossamer Gear Thin Light pads and put it underneath your Tensor it should help reduce the friction noise or get the dyneema floor version of the xmid 💵😊. Maybe even a piece of tyvec could help.
Really? Maybe I got a fluke model but I feel like mine is super loud! I’ll try your suggestions. Thanks. I’ve been interested in trying the gossamer gear thin pads.
I use a poncho and a poncho liner. This time of year is hot. I also carry a chair. I use alcohol stove for coffee and a titanium twig stove for meals. Also because some areas don't allow open fires. Most important i only use permethrin. Deet will destroy certain plastics and it makes me breakout. I have very sensitive skin i was burned on 60% of my body. Id like to see a video on how much food you have for how long. I uses a camelback. Im from the time before cheap filters. We packed water in. Even in the military i carried 2 canteens an a 2quart.
@@HikingWithCam I have 2 different one a Trangia because they are awesome. But I also have a titanium one by boundless that an the twig stove are unbelievably light. My scale went up so I can't give you actual. I like I know exactly how much fuel I have. Had a incident with gas years ago. Picked up the wrong can it was empty and the full one sat in the basement. As far as speed gas wins every time but alcohol is quiet. Really it reminds me of boyscouts. Good luck! im in Maryland have hiked all over Virginia, west Virginia and Pennsylvania. Beautiful, Gods country. Watch out for snakes there seems to be more then I've ever heard lately. Especially by water cotton mouth is the only snake I know isn't scared of people. They also bite under water. Just a FYI.
@@richardhenry1969 Good info. Thanks. I am in northern Virginia and have almost completed Virginia. I've done all of Maryland and WV, parts of New Hampshire, Maine, NC and Tennessee. I'm hoping to complete the AT doing around 150 miles a year and I'm just about half way.
@@SparkyOne549 I think I use a 14 gauge needle with Mara 70 thread. I’m away from my machine at the moment. Good luck! Sewing dyneema is very satisfying.
@@HikingWithCam I don't use an umbrella either. Rain is such difficult variable to account and plan for. Morning rain, mid day rain, evening rain, all day rain, hard rain, light rain heavy rain... Any combination of the above might influence the optimal rain system. You will be hiking in hot humid weather so anything other than an umbrella will result in wetting out from perspiration. So just leave the jacket or poncho at home and hike through whatever falls on you and pack an extra pair of dry undies to change into at night. I actually enjoy rain in this weather, it can be refreshing.
Wow you should be the one making the gear load out video! I’d love to see what you’re carrying to make it that heavy. Do you want to cut it down, or are you good with it?
@@HikingWithCam well my hatchet, saw, cpap and battery bank and 3 liter water bladder. sometimes a chair. pus the normal items you have. including 2 days of food. is 53 pounds. 58 if i take a chair my axe instead of hatchet and my knife with the little saw.
@stigcc I carry a 10k power bank on a shorter 3 day trip, but for a 5 day trip I like to have the larger power bank. I take a lot of photos and videos!
@@HikingWithCam I dont know what else you could save weight on. Maybe the shoes (you know what they say, a pound on your feet is like five in your pack), the food or your own body weight? The food pack looked heavy. For five days you need something like 25,000 calories? That would be at least 14 pounds.
Rain is that elusive unicorn problem that no one can crack so people have resigned themselves to submitting to the rain but I'm not so defeatist. My quest for the impermeable rain jacket has lead me here with paramo jackets. ua-cam.com/video/j1B5uCozFK4/v-deo.htmlsi=65WsxOH05dDcw86L They use it in the uk for emergency service crews
Check out my noise level test of the Nemo Tensor: ua-cam.com/video/xiBM3_kwJ5M/v-deo.html
Awesome. Thanks for using our gear.
- Dan
Wow, the man himself! Thanks, Dan! I've been meaning to try out one of your packs soon too. I've heard great things.
@@HikingWithCam I have the Wapta 30. It was plenty big enough for a 10 day trip, carrying 6 days of food at a time and it was the the most comfortable pack I've ever worn. It remained completely waterproof in 4 days straight of rain, as well.
I am not a backpacker/hiker. My buds and me planned a trip together in Colorado. We did a 45 mile loop in Snowmass with 12,000 ft of elevation. All of our packs were over 45 lbs, and we were not trained for the movement. 3 nights and 4 days. It was utterly painful, be we made it through. My next trip I will be mirroring your setup. Moving with 20-25 lbs vice 45 lbs will change everything. Thanks for posting your setup!!
For me the sweet spot is around 25 pounds (fully loaded), and the pack just gets lighter everyday as you eat through your food! The pack itself is a big component of keeping weight down. I switched from a Gregory pack to a ULA pack and saved close to 2 pounds. Good luck!
Waterproof breathables wet out and don't breath. A completely waterproof jacket or poncho with pit zips is the bomb. For a poncho I recommend one with sleeves and ventilation like pit zips or snaps. My next one is going to be The Packa. Rain Jackets I like are the Lightheart gear one or the Rock Front Rain pullover. Both have pit zips big enough to pull your arms completely out of while wearing. The Rock Front poncho looks pretty nice also.
I live in western NC and I prefer a poncho in the summer, as it's got much better ventilation than a jacket and it covers my pack. I have a Frog Toggs poncho and love it. I'll just a rain jacket in the winter since it offers better protection for my insulated layers. Happy hiking and may your beard touch your toes!
Thanks! I went to college in WNC. I ended up bringing an umbrella for this trip. I went through a rain storm with it, and have lots of thoughts about its effectiveness. In fact, I'm going to do a review video soon!
Thanks, Cam. Fantastic recap. I live in Central VA (Waynesboro). I hike within the SNP regularly. During these summer days (when it does rain) the best for me is to just get wet and wear a good cap to keep the rain out of my face. People will sweat in a poncho or rain jacket on account of the humidity. Unless the temps drop significantly, the best would be to keep the pack dry and change into one of those extra nice shirts when you get to camp. I, too, have a Durston tent. I purchased it from Drop some years ago. Although I currently have six other tents, Durston is my fav, my one and only tent that I use regardless of weather or location. I even setup "my Durston" in my backyard to take naps if I have not been backpacking in a while. Silly but really nice. Makes me feel good.....almost as good as being on trail! Thanks for the informative video.
Thanks for the info. I really love that you set up the xmid in the backyard to relax in. You’re giving me good ideas! 😁 For rain gear, I have decided to try an umbrella for this trip, so I got the gossamer gear UL umbrella. I’ll report back!
@@HikingWithCam Please do let us know how the umbrella works for you. I am eager to know about that. BTW, I just purchased the rain skirt...I have been eyeing it for some time and your video pushed me to hit the buy button. This will be a new experience for me to protect my legs in the rain in warm weather. I am heading to the 100 MW in mid August, and I will be taking the kilt with me in the event the temps are cool/cold. Thaanks again for your informative (and well edited) video.
@@ellen6006 Wow good luck with the 100 MW. My 76 year old dad finished the AT (after 25 years) last year, and I hiked with him from the Kennebec up to Monson where the 100 MW starts. I was nervous to leave him (he had a friend with him), but sure enough 10 days later, he popped out at Baxter SP, then finished the AT the next day. He says that the first 3 days are the toughest on the 100 MW then it get's a bit flatter before the final push of the AT! Have a great trip!
I can promise you that August in Virginia you will NOT need your puffy or beanie..... The 30* quilt is way overkill as well, a 50* will get you through. It will get no colder than maybe 75* at night (if you're lucky). You will need plenty of bug repellent and perhaps a bug net for your head. You will need rain gear, August is rainy season in VA. I've hiked the entire AT section in VA, lived here my entire life. I've logged thousands of miles on VA trails. Water sources are pretty abundant, so no worries there. I'll reinforce the bug repellent, ticks are just as bad as mosquitoes. I like the repellent wipes vs the spray.
Thanks. You’re probably right, I’ll take a close look at the weather as the trip gets closer. I feel like when I did Roan Mtn to Damascus in July last year I did use the puffy in the mornings. I think you’re right about the beanie though. For rain gear, I’m debating between a poncho , rain jacket and an umbrella/skirt combo. It might be a last minute call but I’m leaning umbrella/skirt/pack cover (since I just ordered it from gossamer gear.
love those Moabs! Solid, sturdy, comfy, and not bad when wet either. I have nice Pursuits also, but somehow the Moabs have my name on them...Great pillow idea, love a guy who sews! And the Xmid 1p is to die for of course.
The Moab’s are also on sale a lot!
I learn something new every time you post, Cam. I also tried getting into trail runners, but am going back to the Moabs for the Timberline trail. Glad I'm not the only one. Gonna use the tent stake idea and makeup remover. Thanks for sharing this!
Just found your channel and subscribed. I’m starting my section hikes this year. I live near Charlottesville so my first hike is Snp. Planning to do a 6 day 5 night trip. I have hiked all of it on day hikes so hopefully no surprises. Great to find you man and I’ll look forwarding to following your videos.
Thanks! SNP is a great place to start. Enjoy it. I live in Virginia, just outside of DC. I have two trips left until I finish the Virginia section of the AT, then I'll be heading north from the Pennsylvania line. I plan on doing about 150 miles a year (jumping around to different sections), and completing the AT sometime in the next 10 years.
This is great, thanks for sharing! I do shorter backpacking and section hikes, trying to figure out how to get my pack weight down short of buying new gear (I’ve replaced a lot this year, “losing” about 7 lbs)
Wow 7 pounds, that's great! Yes it's hard to avoid the temptation to buying new gear. Good luck!
@@HikingWithCam yes, new down quilt (love it!), new backpack (testing it on AT section hike in Monson this weekend), Lan Shan trekking pole tent and lighter mummy sleeping pad (don’t really love), toaks 550 pot and BSR stove. Plus trail runners instead of gortex hiking shoes (so much better!). Still more weight to lose, hoping to get base weight to 14-15 to enjoy every hike even more!
Great, well-put-together video.
@@jeffreycarman2185 Thanks!
Great gear load out!!! I prefer trail runners for one reason...I do own the Merrell moab too but just so you know... They take FOREVER to dry.. if they get wet. ;)
I agree drying time is a big advantage of trail runners. I’ve had some bad experiences with quality control on some of the trail runners. For me personally they barely last 300 miles.
Great video, thanks for sharing your bag with us. What kind of stove is that if you don't mind me asking?
Thanks! The stove is the AOTU backpacking stove on Amazon. I’ve used it on more than a dozen trips with no problems at all. It only costs $13 too!
@@HikingWithCam Thanks man, this was the last thing I needed for my kit! Lots of great tips in this video otherwise, thanks for showing us!
Lovely gear man, your content is always appreciated! 👏👏
I hike in New York. For rain I primarily use a 7 oz umbrella with a helium jacket as backup or to use as a wind shirt. Most times I am just under the umbrella. Too hot for a poncho here this summer. Only time I do not use an umbrella is in high peaks of ADK or the White Mountains. For those trips I substitute helium rain pants for the umbrella.
I am really tempted to try out the umbrella for my trip next month. I have been dreading the sweat inducing jacket or poncho. I might just give it a try!
WoW! That’s Incredibly Awesome! Thank You so much! 🤩❤️✨
In my opinion, the best, first defense against any critters getting into your food is an odor-proof bag. Nylofume has worked great for me, so far. It's super light and holds ALL my smelly stuff - food, trash, cook gear and toiletries.
Good tip! Thanks
@@HikingWithCam, good video!
@@drytool Thanks!
Mid/southern Virginia here, Virginia has schizophrenic weather but we're currently experiencing severe droughts right now, only sporadic and fleeting rains when it happens so honestly it's more probable you'll have zero issues with rain as opposed to some. Rain gear is just a huge ordeal generally speaking at any time Im learning. Many philosophies and schools of thought but everybody's way is the one true way.
Thanks. I've been nervously checking the comments on FarOut about water availability! Up in the DC area we seem to be moving into a rainier pattern, so hopefully you guys get some rain too.
The Nemo Tensor isn’t loud. It’s most likely the Durston floor creating friction noise to the pad because of the material that is used. If you set the pad up on the carpet or somewhere else you can test it. Simple fix is to get one of the Gossamer Gear Thin Light pads and put it underneath your Tensor it should help reduce the friction noise or get the dyneema floor version of the xmid 💵😊. Maybe even a piece of tyvec could help.
Really? Maybe I got a fluke model but I feel like mine is super loud! I’ll try your suggestions. Thanks. I’ve been interested in trying the gossamer gear thin pads.
I have the same pad.. love it, but it is loud compared to my big Agnes and thermarest pads…
Maybe it’s an older model? My Tensor is not loud.
@jeffreycarman2185 I got mine in 2023, so maybe?
I was thinking the same thing - I bought my Nemo specifically because it was quieter than the competition!
nice clear video thanks that I found very helpful. cheers stu
Thanks!
thanks so much 😊
You bet! See you on the trail.
Well done! Great gear choices. New follower here. Crow
Awesome! Thank you!
I use a poncho and a poncho liner. This time of year is hot.
I also carry a chair. I use alcohol stove for coffee and a titanium twig stove for meals. Also because some areas don't allow open fires.
Most important i only use permethrin. Deet will destroy certain plastics and it makes me breakout. I have very sensitive skin i was burned on 60% of my body.
Id like to see a video on how much food you have for how long.
I uses a camelback. Im from the time before cheap filters. We packed water in. Even in the military i carried 2 canteens an a 2quart.
I’ve always been curious about using an alcohol stove. I made one out of a beer can last year, I’ll have to give it another try!
@@HikingWithCam I have 2 different one a Trangia because they are awesome. But I also have a titanium one by boundless that an the twig stove are unbelievably light. My scale went up so I can't give you actual. I like I know exactly how much fuel I have. Had a incident with gas years ago. Picked up the wrong can it was empty and the full one sat in the basement.
As far as speed gas wins every time but alcohol is quiet. Really it reminds me of boyscouts.
Good luck! im in Maryland have hiked all over Virginia, west Virginia and Pennsylvania. Beautiful, Gods country.
Watch out for snakes there seems to be more then I've ever heard lately. Especially by water cotton mouth is the only snake I know isn't scared of people. They also bite under water. Just a FYI.
@@richardhenry1969 Good info. Thanks. I am in northern Virginia and have almost completed Virginia. I've done all of Maryland and WV, parts of New Hampshire, Maine, NC and Tennessee. I'm hoping to complete the AT doing around 150 miles a year and I'm just about half way.
@@HikingWithCam outstanding.
How bout some nail clippers for your hands and feet nails?
For a longer trip yes but since this is only a five day trip, I don’t need a clipper. I do have a nail file and scissors on the Swiss Army knife
Can you share any details on the tripod base on your selfie stick?
I'll take a look when I get home and report back with the brand name. The tripod base is very handy!
@markduffy5945 The brand of the selfie stick is a "Smatree." a.co/d/4YnCQiv
Where do you get the Dyneema to sew your bags?
It a business called Ripstop By The Roll
Can you share your gear list, please?
I don’t have a formal list, but I might put something together. Thanks
PONCHO Cisco!
What's a Poncho Cisco?
How bout a umbrella for rain.
It’s funny that you mentioned that. I actually bought one and will be bringing it with me on my trip!
What sewing machine do you have? I’m not sure if I can sew dynema on my machine.
I have the Singer HD4432 and it sews Dyneema without issue. I do have a walking foot attachment however. That helps grab the thin Dyneema
@@HikingWithCam Thanks. Maybe I will give it try on my machine. I think I’d need to use sharp needles with a longer stitch length.
@@SparkyOne549 I think I use a 14 gauge needle with Mara 70 thread. I’m away from my machine at the moment. Good luck! Sewing dyneema is very satisfying.
@@HikingWithCam Thanks, good to know.
Leave the rain jacket. Umbrella and skirt would be best. I would raw dog no rain protect except pack cover this time of year
I'm resistant to the umbrella since I really like using trekking poles.
@@HikingWithCam I don't use an umbrella either. Rain is such difficult variable to account and plan for. Morning rain, mid day rain, evening rain, all day rain, hard rain, light rain heavy rain... Any combination of the above might influence the optimal rain system. You will be hiking in hot humid weather so anything other than an umbrella will result in wetting out from perspiration. So just leave the jacket or poncho at home and hike through whatever falls on you and pack an extra pair of dry undies to change into at night. I actually enjoy rain in this weather, it can be refreshing.
I agree. I’ll report back after my trip!
lol i don't have a chair and my pack is 53 pounds.
Wow you should be the one making the gear load out video! I’d love to see what you’re carrying to make it that heavy. Do you want to cut it down, or are you good with it?
@@HikingWithCam well my hatchet, saw, cpap and battery bank and 3 liter water bladder. sometimes a chair. pus the normal items you have. including 2 days of food. is 53 pounds. 58 if i take a chair my axe instead of hatchet and my knife with the little saw.
HEAVY
What can I do to improve? The luxuries are non-negotiable!
@@HikingWithCamYou are the first I see that carry a 20,000mah power bank. I do the same, but it is heavy!
Maybe you can manage with a 10k?
@stigcc I carry a 10k power bank on a shorter 3 day trip, but for a 5 day trip I like to have the larger power bank. I take a lot of photos and videos!
@@HikingWithCam I dont know what else you could save weight on. Maybe the shoes (you know what they say, a pound on your feet is like five in your pack), the food or your own body weight?
The food pack looked heavy. For five days you need something like 25,000 calories?
That would be at least 14 pounds.
@stigcc I was thinking about doing a food load out video soon. It’s around 5 lbs.
Rain is that elusive unicorn problem that no one can crack so people have resigned themselves to submitting to the rain but I'm not so defeatist. My quest for the impermeable rain jacket has lead me here with paramo jackets. ua-cam.com/video/j1B5uCozFK4/v-deo.htmlsi=65WsxOH05dDcw86L
They use it in the uk for emergency service crews
Interesting. I'll have to look more into the paramo jackets. Thanks.