I'm not sure you should give that level of trust and benefit of the doubt to devs who think they're entitled to probe into your machine without clearly requesting for permission.
@@fernandobarbosa9727You literally give them consent by downloading the games and accepting their EULA. The issue is that people just click "ACCEPT" without actually reading anything, then they complain later. It's like finding a skunk outside, bringing it in your home, then complaining about the smell like "I didn't allow it to pee inside my house!" You brought it inside, you consented to it doing whatever. Same thing with games.
It was a pretty awesome moment in the game for me. Maybe it sucks if you're showing your gameplay to thousands of strangers you don't trust for whatever reason, but I don't think it was an inherently bad thing to have in the game.
@@louisrobitaille5810 That's why I said "clearly". People not reading EULAs are not only extremely common to the point of being assumed, but the fact that they are written in "legalese" also constitutes another barrier of understanding for anyone without a Law degree. There's a reason why not reading them is an acceptable defense in court for personal use cases when the scope of the fine print is outside of what could be assumed when accepting it. When you accept a game software EULA, you do not expect it to fuss around your PC outside of the directory folders related to the game.
@ I've read enough EULAs to know that game EULAs, especially from indie devs aren't in legalese, or at least are easily understandable anyway. Tbh, when I accept a EULA without reading it, I assume I'm basically consenting to the presence of a malware on my computer or other device. I can't fathom how people don't read the warnings then complain about not being warned.
It's wild that we're still playing games without a sandbox. Like, full user-level access, sometimes kernel-level, for a toy. Absolutely should not be the case anymore.
That's why I'm actually a fan of wine and proton on linux and prefer it over native games. It offers the option of keeping the games locked away in their sandbox in the future. Processes et al are also possible with cgroups - for files this is already possible but both wine and proton mount the root filesystem into the virtual filesystem by default. E.g. steam does it because the game is placed outside of the wine prefix - but it shouldn't be a lot of work to just mount the game into the prefix instead of the root.
@@Medardusai You don't need to map the root into a wine prefix - you only need to make sure that the executable and all files it wants to access are mapped, I typically point the G drive letter in the prefix to the game folder and remove the default mapping of Z to root but yes, it would be great if steam did this by default
It's the same kinda question as to implement any sort of accessibility options or not. Indie devs rarely have the time, resources or just straight up motivation to do so. It's just a fraction of your already small audience. But I do agree on creators being the primary source of advertisement for indies these days and the devs should probably give it more thought going forward.
I have to imagine it's easier to code it to pull up some dummy files or just the directory of the game itself than coding it to rummage around in your stuff
@@hathorthecow7146 Pretty sure it's about the same since you just change the directory path that a variable points to and the logic stays the same. If I remember that correctly, the game actually does use dummy files if it can't find anything in your personal folder btw, but don't quote me on that. 👀
enough time and resource to make a virus-like code worming around inside your computer without permission to give you a fright, but not to make a variant that doesnt do that. makes perfect sense really(it doesnt).
I'm reminded of DDLC that guessed people's names by reading the name of the username on the computer. But I named my computer something stupid so I could tell what happened.
This is why you either: a) take away system access from everything windows doesnt need to function b) run virtual machine c) (but not really, its still a few years or a few microsoft fuckups away) maybe go with a linux boot where running games in the first place requires 1-2 forms of obscurement in at least just tl hoops. I mean, as a vtuber you should be doing B by default just for the sake of privacy if irl mistakes happen.
wait what? do virtual streamers dont use Alt acounts for work? like part of the point of the avatar is for privacy and that takes a lot of work, but they Stream using their personal windows and steam profiles?
I feel a lot of streamers really only view games as products to benefit them and make them money and not works of art and expression to experience. This is a problem only streamers have and the fact so many games cater to this crowd is depressing
Inscryption doesn't send the info to another place/database, the thing just stores it just to be used later to give off that "4-th wall Breaking feel" but yeah there definitely should be a disclaimer. This is a bad explanation but it just views the files just to show them to you.
Unless you're one of those people who hold privacy above all else, I personally don't mind. The game also tells you and warns you outright before showing your file folder so that content creators have time to hide that shit from the screen for a few seconds. It's no big deal
Tell that to all the people that have stalkers, this could literally threaten their safety. And if you think privacy is no big deal, how about you give me your social security number, your credit card numbers (please don't forget the CVV code) etc.
@@MrNorker77 No need to be a dick. It's just my opinion. Tbf, I do think there should be a streamer mode for people who want that. More accessibility doesn't hurt. It's just for the average consumer like me who just happens to not care as much about internet privacy as your favorite online creator, I personally do not care. I mainly wanted to call out that Geega said that there should be at least a full warning when a game is about to show you your private info. Inscryption did exactly that
There's no point in breaking the 4th wall if you restrict the access of the game to a certain folder. The whole point of breaking the 4th wall in 90% of cases is to expose you in the hopes of scaring you. If you won't let it happen, you might as well not play the game at all 🧐.
Nope this is an anyone problem, once played a game when I was younger with the whole "meta with your username" thing and my dad was in the room and when it popped up he legit rebooted the whole computer and did a deep dive to make sure it wasn't a virus trying to steal data Like there will totally be a time someone makes something malicious disguised as "hehe funny meta joke" and then magically everyone will care and want more warning for all these kinda things
As a dev I'm not going to use time that could be spent making cool gameplay mechanics to my whole userbase, just to make a "streamer mode" to cater to streamers that are like 0.00001% of the playerbase.
The number of times I've played an obscure game on stream to then get a dm from the dev thanking me and telling me that they got a ton of new downloads from it is huge. When it comes to smaller indie games, you NEED to rely on streamers for marketing in the end
@@GEEGA You are assuming that streamers won't play the game due to the lack of a streamer mode though, which is not true in my experience. This is the first time I ever hear someone complaining about "lack of streamer mode", and it's not like streamers are avoid games that you mentioned that lack this feature, like Inscription. You don't need to cater specifically to streamers in order to get coverage, in my opinion that time is better spent on something else. If we have extra time, then sure, sounds like a nice feature to have, not that hard to implement and would solve this problem for streamers. I'm not opposed to the feature itself. But devs are always behind on time, like right now we have about 80 issues on git, and I'd put every single one of those as higher priority than a "streamer mode". Although it really is not a hard feature to implement. It shouldn't take more than a few hours. So maybe it is worth it and I'm just wrong. But still, it feels like people ask for a bunch of those luxury features and ask why devs don't implement stuff like that, most often it is because we lack the time to.
The devs probably thought it was cute but certainly didn't think about streaming implications
I'm not sure you should give that level of trust and benefit of the doubt to devs who think they're entitled to probe into your machine without clearly requesting for permission.
@@fernandobarbosa9727You literally give them consent by downloading the games and accepting their EULA. The issue is that people just click "ACCEPT" without actually reading anything, then they complain later. It's like finding a skunk outside, bringing it in your home, then complaining about the smell like "I didn't allow it to pee inside my house!" You brought it inside, you consented to it doing whatever. Same thing with games.
It was a pretty awesome moment in the game for me. Maybe it sucks if you're showing your gameplay to thousands of strangers you don't trust for whatever reason, but I don't think it was an inherently bad thing to have in the game.
@@louisrobitaille5810 That's why I said "clearly". People not reading EULAs are not only extremely common to the point of being assumed, but the fact that they are written in "legalese" also constitutes another barrier of understanding for anyone without a Law degree.
There's a reason why not reading them is an acceptable defense in court for personal use cases when the scope of the fine print is outside of what could be assumed when accepting it. When you accept a game software EULA, you do not expect it to fuss around your PC outside of the directory folders related to the game.
@ I've read enough EULAs to know that game EULAs, especially from indie devs aren't in legalese, or at least are easily understandable anyway. Tbh, when I accept a EULA without reading it, I assume I'm basically consenting to the presence of a malware on my computer or other device. I can't fathom how people don't read the warnings then complain about not being warned.
It's wild that we're still playing games without a sandbox. Like, full user-level access, sometimes kernel-level, for a toy. Absolutely should not be the case anymore.
Frankly all these games using KLAC should be grateful I'm even giving them my email
That's why I'm actually a fan of wine and proton on linux and prefer it over native games. It offers the option of keeping the games locked away in their sandbox in the future. Processes et al are also possible with cgroups - for files this is already possible but both wine and proton mount the root filesystem into the virtual filesystem by default.
E.g. steam does it because the game is placed outside of the wine prefix - but it shouldn't be a lot of work to just mount the game into the prefix instead of the root.
@@Medardusai You don't need to map the root into a wine prefix - you only need to make sure that the executable and all files it wants to access are mapped, I typically point the G drive letter in the prefix to the game folder and remove the default mapping of Z to root but yes, it would be great if steam did this by default
@@pwii That's what I said, yes.
> but both wine and proton mount the root filesystem into the virtual filesystem by default.
I would NOT trust Microsoft to make a sensible implementation of any kind of sandboxing
PC Builder Simulator did a similar thing by copying your wallpaper into the in-game monitor
It's the same kinda question as to implement any sort of accessibility options or not. Indie devs rarely have the time, resources or just straight up motivation to do so. It's just a fraction of your already small audience.
But I do agree on creators being the primary source of advertisement for indies these days and the devs should probably give it more thought going forward.
I have to imagine it's easier to code it to pull up some dummy files or just the directory of the game itself than coding it to rummage around in your stuff
@@hathorthecow7146 Pretty sure it's about the same since you just change the directory path that a variable points to and the logic stays the same. If I remember that correctly, the game actually does use dummy files if it can't find anything in your personal folder btw, but don't quote me on that. 👀
It should do that not just for streamers, but anyone. Imagine your young relative playing a game on their steam and it pulls up your porn folder?
enough time and resource to make a virus-like code worming around inside your computer without permission
to give you a fright, but not to make a variant that doesnt do that. makes perfect sense really(it doesnt).
Vedal recently played this game with Neuro-sama and he was really scared, not from the game's ambiance but because of this exact reason
And he got stuff that would damage him if it got leaked, like neuros code.
at least, it was only file names (still can do damage, but it's better than leak the files content randomly)
Nothing happened on November 7th 2024
"It was a vr chat world!!!"
I'm reminded of DDLC that guessed people's names by reading the name of the username on the computer. But I named my computer something stupid so I could tell what happened.
That had a streamer mode, thankfully.
here for my geega dailies
OneShot did this. Without spoiling much there is now a console playable version which is also available on steam.
This is why you either:
a) take away system access from everything windows doesnt need to function
b) run virtual machine
c) (but not really, its still a few years or a few microsoft fuckups away) maybe go with a linux boot where running games in the first place requires 1-2 forms of obscurement in at least just tl hoops.
I mean, as a vtuber you should be doing B by default just for the sake of privacy if irl mistakes happen.
wait what? do virtual streamers dont use Alt acounts for work?
like part of the point of the avatar is for privacy and that takes a lot of work, but they Stream using their personal windows and steam profiles?
Vedal+Neuro got hit by Inscryption recently. At least his chat has sorta turned it into a joke? That said, it could easily have been much, much worse.
That is beyond creepy and invasive. A game doesn't need to do that, streaming or not.
An advantage of console gaming, it seems.
A Game has nothing to do with showing user files and directories, what the hell?
I feel a lot of streamers really only view games as products to benefit them and make them money and not works of art and expression to experience. This is a problem only streamers have and the fact so many games cater to this crowd is depressing
Call spyware for what spyware is?
Inscryption doesn't send the info to another place/database, the thing just stores it just to be used later to give off that "4-th wall Breaking feel" but yeah there definitely should be a disclaimer. This is a bad explanation but it just views the files just to show them to you.
Unless you're one of those people who hold privacy above all else, I personally don't mind. The game also tells you and warns you outright before showing your file folder so that content creators have time to hide that shit from the screen for a few seconds. It's no big deal
Tell that to all the people that have stalkers, this could literally threaten their safety. And if you think privacy is no big deal, how about you give me your social security number, your credit card numbers (please don't forget the CVV code) etc.
@@MrNorker77 No need to be a dick. It's just my opinion.
Tbf, I do think there should be a streamer mode for people who want that. More accessibility doesn't hurt. It's just for the average consumer like me who just happens to not care as much about internet privacy as your favorite online creator, I personally do not care.
I mainly wanted to call out that Geega said that there should be at least a full warning when a game is about to show you your private info. Inscryption did exactly that
There's no point in breaking the 4th wall if you restrict the access of the game to a certain folder. The whole point of breaking the 4th wall in 90% of cases is to expose you in the hopes of scaring you. If you won't let it happen, you might as well not play the game at all 🧐.
this is only a streaming problem.
Nope this is an anyone problem, once played a game when I was younger with the whole "meta with your username" thing and my dad was in the room and when it popped up he legit rebooted the whole computer and did a deep dive to make sure it wasn't a virus trying to steal data
Like there will totally be a time someone makes something malicious disguised as "hehe funny meta joke" and then magically everyone will care and want more warning for all these kinda things
@@BaconNukeso, your dad freaked out for no reason. It's legit just a problem for streamers
As a dev I'm not going to use time that could be spent making cool gameplay mechanics to my whole userbase, just to make a "streamer mode" to cater to streamers that are like 0.00001% of the playerbase.
Streamers are your advertising though. By making sure they can play your game, you are potentially getting a bunch more players
The number of times I've played an obscure game on stream to then get a dm from the dev thanking me and telling me that they got a ton of new downloads from it is huge. When it comes to smaller indie games, you NEED to rely on streamers for marketing in the end
@@GEEGA You are assuming that streamers won't play the game due to the lack of a streamer mode though, which is not true in my experience. This is the first time I ever hear someone complaining about "lack of streamer mode", and it's not like streamers are avoid games that you mentioned that lack this feature, like Inscription. You don't need to cater specifically to streamers in order to get coverage, in my opinion that time is better spent on something else.
If we have extra time, then sure, sounds like a nice feature to have, not that hard to implement and would solve this problem for streamers. I'm not opposed to the feature itself. But devs are always behind on time, like right now we have about 80 issues on git, and I'd put every single one of those as higher priority than a "streamer mode".
Although it really is not a hard feature to implement. It shouldn't take more than a few hours. So maybe it is worth it and I'm just wrong. But still, it feels like people ask for a bunch of those luxury features and ask why devs don't implement stuff like that, most often it is because we lack the time to.
lol this guy's a lost fucking cause