Such a great video, great analysis. The clips you edit do a great job at showing what you're explaining. Now, the dream is one of these with you going over Pete Sampras' serve, breaking down into how he could hit kick/slice serves with the same ball trajectory and particularly how and why his second serve was so good (I've read that even his flat serve had tremendous amount of spin, even compared to his contemporaries). Although I can understand how that probably won't help much recreational players since the technique is so advanced, it's still very entertaining to hear you talk about it.
I have been practicing for a while and summarized about four types of forehands, with racket head speeds from slow to fast 1. WTA forehand: when preparing to swing, the racket head points to the back, and the racket face points to the side or the side-back 2. Djokovic-Gonzalez forehand: the racket head points to the back, and the racket face points to the ground(with a pad dog motion) 3. Modern forehand (Federer-Nadal forehand): the racket head points to the side, and the racket face points to the ground(with a pad dog motion) 4. Next-Gen forehand: the racket head points to the side, and the racket face points to the back. If you are a recreational player, it is recommended to learn 1 and 2. It is strongly recommended not to learn 4, as the stability is extremely poor.
Extremely useful slowmo footage. There's a double pump on an upward plane...plus the topspin...clear as day. Can't wait to get on the court to get that going!
was just curious, there are so many amazing slowmo footage available on sinners forehand with great clarity, was it a rights issue that these were the only ones you could get or use? especially around 2:40 mark
I own old speed mp graphene touch from 2017 that I tinkered to Sinners specs and played around. I think that his raquet specs has A LOT to do with his technique. Low static weight, high balance point and SW of 340 makes his racket feel like a club. This helps to delay racket head flip and also makes him pronate elbow much more compared to say Djokovic FH. I would say that this elbow pronation is what you call "slingshot" effect. In the follow through high SW and head heavy balance makes the wrist brake and makes the flip above the shoulder and behind the back. I had a lot of fun clubbing ball with these specs, however touch volleys and short balls that required quick wrist motion were nightmare to hit. Also as you say - longer backswing is required for this type of shot and it's super hard to time it in the matchplay. However when i dropped SW and lowered balance to 32 i couldn't anymore achieve this exact technique. That's why i subjectively believe Sinners technique has a lot to do with his unorthodox racket specs.
It's my forehand more or less. What you pointed at the end is spot on. It's a long swing and requires a lot of speed and good timing. Highly inconsistent for me and I don't trust my forehand still. When I'm feeling well though, it's very satisfying...easy power and great topspin
Sinner does not rotate his racquet head backwards nowadays...If you were to check frame by frame, you'll see the tip of his racquet hardly moves. It's more like the hand his behind the racquet head and then overtakes the head. It reduces the effort to generate speed of the racket head before contact. While he was moving the entire racquet younger. He moves his hand and only pulls on the grip. This halfs the weight to accelerate and creates a much higher angular rotation of the racket tip to maximise energy transferred to the ball (E=1/2mV2) at the least amount of energy delivered. Previously, players were looping the entire racquet like Bjorg, to generate ball speed/rotation, or will drastically shorten their move like McEnroe to favour economy and accuracy. Sinner simply combines the 2. The large hand/grip path arming and then pulling by the racket and the minimal racket head movement in the 3D space, before the 90deg (or much more like Kirgyos!) tip pointing to the rear to sideways at contact. The more angular correction the better whipping effect. I'm guessing those students failing to mimick the latest form of forehand are indeed whether trying to rotate their racket backwards at the last moment (they'll be late to contact) or can't loosen their wrist enough to only pull on the grip without trying to manage the racket tip. Maybe try to whip horizontally to generate a woosh sound with the tip to feel it...?
6:09 that part about whipy lag is nat true, there is no longer distance of head racket. He "flip" the racket and the head of the racket stays almost the same place ;)
Forgetting the key part the hip is playing in the next gen. The hip sets off the movement, the arm and wrist follows. All about kinetics improvement compared to modern.
Apologies if I've missed smething. How does sinner's uncoiling/clearing of left arm differ from that of the modern forehand. I remember you saying in the modern forehand ouncoiling/clearing left arm should begin during racket drop. How is sinner's timing different?
This forehand is all about wrist flexibility. You have to cover the ball very quickly with the wrist or there won't be enough spin to keep the ball in. It helps to use a thin grip on the racquet to replicate this .
@deathbombs I am not so sure about that. I think if you freeze frame Nick' fh at contact, you may see, just like Sinner, his wrist is layed back/extended.
The thing I find most interesting about Sinner's forehand is that it has no distinct drop phase - as we can see clearly here:ua-cam.com/users/shorts7F-EQvbUAz8?si=jR6upbmTwB2q-K3t That is distinct from a player such as Alcaraz who does have a separate drop phase, as we can clearly see here:ua-cam.com/users/shortswZBQ6_xSfGg?si=4_sUTx1XNyeXduXU
How is it not a great technique to teach when he has the best forehand on tour? It is also next gen so that means that is what most of the new players will be doing anyways.
the forehand is nothing like Agassi's. Look at the 2 slow motion videos ua-cam.com/video/Dz6UpwYuDDE/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared&t=115 and ua-cam.com/video/F18VBTKIUro/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared&t=3. Agassi's racket rises well over head during backswing , the strings never face the backfence and it looks like a more rounded movement. The contact point well in front of the body is maybe the only commonality I see. But still both are incredible ball strikers. At the moment my favourite forehand is from Jan-Lennard Struff . See ua-cam.com/video/YyExjagqtFA/v-deo.html
That is literally the opposite of what everyone says. They always say who cares if it’s ugly, if it works it works and in this case that is 100% true because he has the best forehand on tour. At least according to you because I personally think it’s not an ugly forehand at all.
Thank you perfect breakdown! I constantly have to correct technique of some players that have been taught this. Like you said it's fine if you have great timing. But for the weekend warrior or junior who hardly plays It's too hard to get the timing down. Excellent breakdown!
Sinner’s Next Gen Two-Handed Backhand
👉 ua-cam.com/video/Y6cc6DSVSFc/v-deo.htmlsi=cHBMsM_EOzO2MiuI
My forehand also looks like a slingshot, only instead of slinging the ball over the net I am slinging it over the fence
This is so relatable LOLL
Yes! I not alone
I can’t relate due to being 9 utr. But lmao nice one tho😂
My man
@@anubhavmahapatra2955and you wouldn’t win two games off a UTR 11 so sit down bruh
Incredibly lucid and comprehensive analysis. Very easy to follow your reasoning and presentation. Most interesting.
Such a great video, great analysis. The clips you edit do a great job at showing what you're explaining.
Now, the dream is one of these with you going over Pete Sampras' serve, breaking down into how he could hit kick/slice serves with the same ball trajectory and particularly how and why his second serve was so good (I've read that even his flat serve had tremendous amount of spin, even compared to his contemporaries). Although I can understand how that probably won't help much recreational players since the technique is so advanced, it's still very entertaining to hear you talk about it.
I have been practicing for a while and summarized about four types of forehands, with racket head speeds from slow to fast
1. WTA forehand: when preparing to swing, the racket head points to the back, and the racket face points to the side or the side-back
2. Djokovic-Gonzalez forehand: the racket head points to the back, and the racket face points to the ground(with a pad dog motion)
3. Modern forehand (Federer-Nadal forehand): the racket head points to the side, and the racket face points to the ground(with a pad dog motion)
4. Next-Gen forehand: the racket head points to the side, and the racket face points to the back.
If you are a recreational player, it is recommended to learn 1 and 2. It is strongly recommended not to learn 4, as the stability is extremely poor.
3 is also fine for recreational players.
What do you mean by poor stability?
im curious. which type carlos is?
Thank you for all the lessons, your analisys are the best! Keep it up
Appreciate you
Extremely useful slowmo footage. There's a double pump on an upward plane...plus the topspin...clear as day. Can't wait to get on the court to get that going!
Great video with exellent explanantion and samples. I think the racquet itself (and its specs) may also impact the players technique
was just curious, there are so many amazing slowmo footage available on sinners forehand with great clarity, was it a rights issue that these were the only ones you could get or use? especially around 2:40 mark
Yes
I own old speed mp graphene touch from 2017 that I tinkered to Sinners specs and played around. I think that his raquet specs has A LOT to do with his technique. Low static weight, high balance point and SW of 340 makes his racket feel like a club. This helps to delay racket head flip and also makes him pronate elbow much more compared to say Djokovic FH. I would say that this elbow pronation is what you call "slingshot" effect. In the follow through high SW and head heavy balance makes the wrist brake and makes the flip above the shoulder and behind the back. I had a lot of fun clubbing ball with these specs, however touch volleys and short balls that required quick wrist motion were nightmare to hit. Also as you say - longer backswing is required for this type of shot and it's super hard to time it in the matchplay. However when i dropped SW and lowered balance to 32 i couldn't anymore achieve this exact technique. That's why i subjectively believe Sinners technique has a lot to do with his unorthodox racket specs.
What a fantastic analysis thanks😍
My pleasure!
It's my forehand more or less.
What you pointed at the end is spot on. It's a long swing and requires a lot of speed and good timing. Highly inconsistent for me and I don't trust my forehand still. When I'm feeling well though, it's very satisfying...easy power and great topspin
this is your best video. noice job there racer
Glad you liked it
Sinner does not rotate his racquet head backwards nowadays...If you were to check frame by frame, you'll see the tip of his racquet hardly moves. It's more like the hand his behind the racquet head and then overtakes the head. It reduces the effort to generate speed of the racket head before contact. While he was moving the entire racquet younger. He moves his hand and only pulls on the grip. This halfs the weight to accelerate and creates a much higher angular rotation of the racket tip to maximise energy transferred to the ball (E=1/2mV2) at the least amount of energy delivered.
Previously, players were looping the entire racquet like Bjorg, to generate ball speed/rotation, or will drastically shorten their move like McEnroe to favour economy and accuracy.
Sinner simply combines the 2. The large hand/grip path arming and then pulling by the racket and the minimal racket head movement in the 3D space, before the 90deg (or much more like Kirgyos!) tip pointing to the rear to sideways at contact. The more angular correction the better whipping effect.
I'm guessing those students failing to mimick the latest form of forehand are indeed whether trying to rotate their racket backwards at the last moment (they'll be late to contact) or can't loosen their wrist enough to only pull on the grip without trying to manage the racket tip.
Maybe try to whip horizontally to generate a woosh sound with the tip to feel it...?
100% yes!
6:09 that part about whipy lag is nat true, there is no longer distance of head racket. He "flip" the racket and the head of the racket stays almost the same place ;)
This reminds me of Patrick M's tips on loose wrist, "pretend you are throwing the racket" approach for wippier forehand.
Just dont. Forget him. He sells snakeoil.
Forgetting the key part the hip is playing in the next gen. The hip sets off the movement, the arm and wrist follows. All about kinetics improvement compared to modern.
Thank you Nikola for an amazing technical analysis🫶.
Nobody does it better than you🥇🏆
I appreciate your support Milan 🙏
Apologies if I've missed smething. How does sinner's uncoiling/clearing of left arm differ from that of the modern forehand. I remember you saying in the modern forehand ouncoiling/clearing left arm should begin during racket drop. How is sinner's timing different?
Nice job! Love your mind sir 🤝
Thank you
Nick if you had to pick one forehand to have for life: Sinner or Alcaraz. Aka which one would you teach to a junior. Have them try both?
It comes down to what’s more natural for a player. Both are great. Alcaraz technique, however, far less complex
@@IntuitiveTennis Thanks Nick.
Does this new gen forhand will cause problem to the wrist more? Since the movement is base of the wrist more.
Less ua-cam.com/video/00tr7aCrwAg/v-deo.htmlsi=umY8OYjQSfDvhePf
I imagine Sinner is watching this video saying “I have no idea of what you are talking about”.
Great explanation, thank you so much. 👍
🙏
Great insights!
Thank you!
I think dominant shoulder in front is a byproduct of internal shoulder adduction
Isn’t that movement hurting the wrist long term?
I like to copy his take back sometimes. It gives crazy spin but it’s tough on the wrist.
When I try to do this, I always hit with the frame and the ball goes into orbit
Don’t do it 😭
Grip seems to have to be almost a full western grip.
great video
Thank you
SPIN ON THAT THING !
Cool video!
This forehand is all about wrist flexibility. You have to cover the ball very quickly with the wrist or there won't be enough spin to keep the ball in. It helps to use a thin grip on the racquet to replicate this .
It's not about wrist flexibility. It's about wrist stability.
I would say his slingshot technique is similar to Jack Sock and Kyrgios.
💯
I think theyre quite different- Kygios uses a lot of wrist, Sinner entire body
@deathbombs I am not so sure about that. I think if you freeze frame Nick' fh at contact, you may see, just like Sinner, his wrist is layed back/extended.
Nick, your own imitation of the sinner forehand at 9:08 was just too rigid. Let go of the wrist, buddy!
Yeah he's not that good at copying other people's swings that are not close to the way he hits the ball.
😎👍
The thing I find most interesting about Sinner's forehand is that it has no distinct drop phase - as we can see clearly here:ua-cam.com/users/shorts7F-EQvbUAz8?si=jR6upbmTwB2q-K3t That is distinct from a player such as Alcaraz who does have a separate drop phase, as we can clearly see here:ua-cam.com/users/shortswZBQ6_xSfGg?si=4_sUTx1XNyeXduXU
I enjoy the breakdown but for myself will keep a simple forehand.
Step 1: become noodle
Nikola-just sent you a message via your contact form. I'm not able to click on your site to get more information/pricing on the Video Analysis. Help?
And may be the slingshot style has led him to set his string tension to 60lbs
Loose❌️
Loosey goosey✅️
next gen does not mean always better. it may be a regression
In this case I don't think it is a regression, the pace and spin on his ball combined with his consistency is incredible.
Where is Anna now
She’s back ua-cam.com/video/egMhSF7BhjU/v-deo.htmlsi=apiKjtZLyBoAzNpr
In simple terms: "Don't try this at home.....😂🤣😂🤣"
I am bit sure, if copying from a pro is the best way to make our technique better.
I don't think it's a great technique to teach....
I think it is a great technique to teach!
How is it not a great technique to teach when he has the best forehand on tour? It is also next gen so that means that is what most of the new players will be doing anyways.
@@hughgeiger9353that’s what I’m saying
@@parker.ple.12 10 years ago none of these guys pass the round of 16 at the US Open....maybe quarter final,but that's about it.
@@lszujo well look what’s going on now. We have a 2 time grand slam champ using this technique
I would say that his forehand is very traditional, a lot of players like Agassi has this forehand.
Where’s the similarity?
I is very similar to Jack Sock it seems. Sock had that same preparation and slingshot effect. Kyrgios has this type technique too it seems.
the forehand is nothing like Agassi's. Look at the 2 slow motion videos ua-cam.com/video/Dz6UpwYuDDE/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared&t=115 and ua-cam.com/video/F18VBTKIUro/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared&t=3. Agassi's racket rises well over head during backswing , the strings never face the backfence and it looks like a more rounded movement. The contact point well in front of the body is maybe the only commonality I see. But still both are incredible ball strikers. At the moment my favourite forehand is from Jan-Lennard Struff . See ua-cam.com/video/YyExjagqtFA/v-deo.html
ugly forehand, that is what matters.
That is literally the opposite of what everyone says. They always say who cares if it’s ugly, if it works it works and in this case that is 100% true because he has the best forehand on tour. At least according to you because I personally think it’s not an ugly forehand at all.
lol just because one person has this technique doesn’t mean it’s what the next gen are using.
It’s obviously not just one person
ua-cam.com/video/-ijGbV8OStE/v-deo.htmlsi=Q7_AKA9r_Bs3wGjb
Thank you perfect breakdown! I constantly have to correct technique of some players that have been taught this. Like you said it's fine if you have great timing. But for the weekend warrior or junior who hardly plays It's too hard to get the timing down. Excellent breakdown!