I bought the V2 and installed it on an older barrel (800 rds) where I already knew the group size (284 Shehane, 180 hyb, N555, KS Arms barrel, Borden action). I completely redid the load development (18 rounds), seating depth (12 rds) then the tuner (18 rds). When all was said and done it took the original load from about .38 MOA on my best day to about .25 MOA on average. This is my first tuner and was very easy to tune. I would recommend this product.
I put one of his PRS tuner brakes on a new 6mm creedmoor rifle I put together. Hadn’t got my new brass yet, but I couldn’t wait to shoot the rifle, so I picked up 2 boxes of Hornady black. Got it sighted in, then at “0” sent 3 rounds down range. One ragged hole! Wanted to play with it, but I guess I’ll wait until I have something to actually tune!!!!
Those are some impressive three shot groups. Now correct me if I'm wrong....but if your best group is at 0 on the tuner then you fully tuned your load without the use of the tuner at all. You tuned it with powder and seating depth and could have done the same without the tuner installed. I'm not saying it would have been in the same place without the tuner installed(it's still changing the barrel resonance) but you didn't use the tuning ability to correct the load.
Yes and there are plenty of times and honestly my goal is to find my load at zero but the point of the tuner is to have fallback locations for when I’m traveling and conditions vary. Not to mention most times moving the tuner will still tighten up the group a little bit in one place or another. it won’t make a bad gun shoot Great but it will make a really good gun shoot great.
@@FClassJohn Oh, I agree it makes perfect sense to find the best load possible before involving the tuner. There just seems to be a trend on these type of videos to attribute a large portion of the performance to the tuner itself(in the comments especially) which feels disingenuous to me. In my mind the biggest and primary benefit to the tuner is when you aren't able to tune the load and need to be able to tune the gun instead(factory ammo, changing conditions with pre-loaded ammo etc). Cheers.
@@MMBRM oh I hope I didn’t come off that way and I’m sorry if I did. You definitely have to do you pre-tuner work to get the most out of them. Now silliness aside I have seen some guys just grab off the shelf ammo or guess at a load and use a tuner to help although it’s not a great way to go about it. You won’t get the same results but it can still help to some degree.
@@FClassJohn Hey John, No I wasn't implying you were being misleading. Although more clarity regarding the actual effect of the tuner would make the video a bit more legible for the inexperienced. It's just a trend I've noticed on these videos in general. I find your videos to be un-biased on the whole. Take it easy.
@F Class John, I was going to ask Erik about this very thing. So you loaded all long, head to range and start dialing in your node. So at this point, you’ve already figured out your power weight right… So assuming that you went to the range and shot with your Doppler AndiScan to find a consistent power weight? If so, where do ya start for bullet seating depth here? Jam minus 10 thou? BTW - subbed
So is there a point where you stop messing around with neck tension and seating depth and start to use the tuner or how has it worked best for you (guessing best SD numbers)? I considered ordering one to use with stock hunting ammo due to the current shortage or reloading comps but watching interviews with folks from companies like federal they elaborate on the details of factory loads tell you that they use a variety of powders and primers that fall within a certain performance range due to availability. Unfortunately if you buy a box of factory ammo you will burn it off finding the proper setting for the tuner, which may be OK if you bought more than one box, but if you buy from a second lot you are doing the process all over again.. Thanks again for another great video!
I tested neck tension several years ago and found I really like a certain tensions so I don't mess with it anymore. That stays a fixed variable for me. I do a basic seating depth test like you see in the video but that what you see me do is literally the only seating depth test I did before going to the tuner. As for hinting ammo, you can do very quick tuner tests but yeah in general you'd probably want to buy at least a couple boxes of what you want to hunt with so you can use one to test with and one for hunting.
......lol....don't go with a loonytooner......another unnecessary variable you are presenting to yourself.....why?.....more ammo spent testing.....why?.....winchester's boss system, just another loonytooner, was a failure 35-40 years ago.....just trying to give you the old news of another gadget raring its useless head again.....you can take the advice or try it for yourself.
If you want to find the absolute best setting for the tuner, yeah, you'll burn some rounds, but you'd be amazed how quickly you can find a setting that will be substantially better than without the tuner. As long as you have a stable shooting platform and decent optic, you can pretty easily dial in an acceptable factory hunting load within 10 rounds. I don't know what Mr. Rumpel's problem is, but guaranteed, if a tuner doesn't significantly improve your groups, something else is wrong, because they do work.
....also Foonus - if they actually worked, as in a reliable variable to improve accuracy, don't you think Snipers would be using them in their field of work.....??....on another note, a word of caution on any advice from a game-boy.....lol
@@ericrumpel3105 you do realize that most snipers shoot 1moa groups at best with their rifle systems? tuners are just more weight that could cause problems. silly comparison
That was a great demo of this new tuner. It is interesting how the tuner impacts barrel harmonics and may be useful in dialing in as temps and biometrics change. Please forgive me. I am sort of new to viewing this channel but which cartridge are you shooting? Is it 284 Win? Thanks!
When doing load development on a rifle that you will use the tuner, do you start with it on at zero setting or start with no muzzle device and find your load. Then put tuner on and do tuner testing.
I always start with the tuner on and in whatever the particular tuner's neutral point is. In the case of the Cortina V2 it's with the tuner flush to the barrel.
John, when "seating long" at home before going to the range, do you seat long with the inline die and arbor press, or just a regular press and seating die?
@@Spaman42 Granted it doesn't happen every time, but with my handloads and a tuner, I was getting .20" 3 shot groups last weekend with a 25X Leupold, Bergara B-14 Wilderness (6.5CM), off an Accu-tac bipod.
New AB book from Byran Litz has a chapter on barrel tuners and his testing shows that tuners are basically snake oil. His testing is extensive and included the EC tuner. Thoughts on that? Would enjoy a video about this from you.
@@alvingibbons7543 That is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. No, that isn't how data or science works. Truth is truth. The entire baseis of science is repeatable results that establish fact. 1+1=2. That is fact. It doesn't matter who evaluates it, there is only 1 correct answer. I have never seen a video where EC tuners or any tuner improved groups *with a large enough sample size to be statistically significant*. If you know of a video that does show that, please share it.
That is a serious misstatement! Bryan simply said that for his rifle, on a particular day, a particular load, and with a particular shooter, he could not identify any differences between using different settings on a tuner. That does not mean that another shooter, on another gun, on a different day would not find a difference using tuners....Test everything yourself before misinterpreting someone else's results....
Litz also says he doesn’t notice a difference when annealing brass, that doesn’t mean I’m selling my annealeez… a lot of good benchrest shooters are winning matches with barrel tuners on their guns… obviously it’s not hurting anything
the paper with the tuner going from 0-45 for 3 rows, was that multiple revolutions on the tuner each row or repeating the same series ? Thanks, I had ordered one just yesterday! I had experienced best groupings with a Harrelson(22lr) set at zero so took it off(I don't travel but I can see where a change in environment can affect grouping that a tuner could mitigate) Think I'll play around with them again(last year I was biggest factor in group size so kinda over-shadowed other factors)
@@whiplash636 I agree that's the way it's supposed to be used but since it has about 2 1/2 turns of threads was asking if he had experimented just to see if it made a difference.
I typically won't go more than revolution during my normal testing but once I have an established load and tunes I will test another resolution in or out depending on which tuner I'm using to see where further nodes may exist.
.....no set screw on the looneytooner.....I can see that moving....accidentally....& driving someone crazy.....lol......it sounds like it's driving you crazy already my friend.
I bought the V2 and installed it on an older barrel (800 rds) where I already knew the group size (284 Shehane, 180 hyb, N555, KS Arms barrel, Borden action). I completely redid the load development (18 rounds), seating depth (12 rds) then the tuner (18 rds). When all was said and done it took the original load from about .38 MOA on my best day to about .25 MOA on average. This is my first tuner and was very easy to tune. I would recommend this product.
I put one of his PRS tuner brakes on a new 6mm creedmoor rifle I put together. Hadn’t got my new brass yet, but I couldn’t wait to shoot the rifle, so I picked up 2 boxes of Hornady black. Got it sighted in, then at “0” sent 3 rounds down range. One ragged hole! Wanted to play with it, but I guess I’ll wait until I have something to actually tune!!!!
Interesting. I have decided that my next barrel will be set up for the EC Tuner. Thanks for sharing.
Glad it helped.
@FClassJohn - I appreciate the work you do in putting out these videos. Thank you. You and Erik are my go-to sources for information.
Nice work John
Very informative
Glad it was helpful.
I like those targets. Where do I get a copy.
Great info Sir. Thank You. I'm Loven our EC Tuner Break.❤❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍👀😎
Good shooting John!
Erik did I hear John drop an Easter egg by saying you have new tuner brakes with the new tuner on them!?
Thanks Erik!
@@Forumrida38621 exactly what i was thinking. i immediately emailed erik asking to order one lol
@@FClassJohn 👍
Erik you just gave F-Class John an advantage leading into the Nationals . You should have charged him 5 times the price for the new V2 EC Tuner 😁.
Those are some impressive three shot groups. Now correct me if I'm wrong....but if your best group is at 0 on the tuner then you fully tuned your load without the use of the tuner at all. You tuned it with powder and seating depth and could have done the same without the tuner installed. I'm not saying it would have been in the same place without the tuner installed(it's still changing the barrel resonance) but you didn't use the tuning ability to correct the load.
Yes and there are plenty of times and honestly my goal is to find my load at zero but the point of the tuner is to have fallback locations for when I’m traveling and conditions vary. Not to mention most times moving the tuner will still tighten up the group a little bit in one place or another. it won’t make a bad gun shoot Great but it will make a really good gun shoot great.
@@FClassJohn Oh, I agree it makes perfect sense to find the best load possible before involving the tuner. There just seems to be a trend on these type of videos to attribute a large portion of the performance to the tuner itself(in the comments especially) which feels disingenuous to me. In my mind the biggest and primary benefit to the tuner is when you aren't able to tune the load and need to be able to tune the gun instead(factory ammo, changing conditions with pre-loaded ammo etc). Cheers.
@@MMBRM oh I hope I didn’t come off that way and I’m sorry if I did. You definitely have to do you pre-tuner work to get the most out of them. Now silliness aside I have seen some guys just grab off the shelf ammo or guess at a load and use a tuner to help although it’s not a great way to go about it. You won’t get the same results but it can still help to some degree.
@@FClassJohn Hey John, No I wasn't implying you were being misleading. Although more clarity regarding the actual effect of the tuner would make the video a bit more legible for the inexperienced. It's just a trend I've noticed on these videos in general. I find your videos to be un-biased on the whole. Take it easy.
@@MMBRM Thank you and I will definitely take the feedback into consideration the next time I do some videos like this.
thank you for the really informative vid
@F Class John, I was going to ask Erik about this very thing. So you loaded all long, head to range and start dialing in your node. So at this point, you’ve already figured out your power weight right… So assuming that you went to the range and shot with your Doppler AndiScan to find a consistent power weight? If so, where do ya start for bullet seating depth here? Jam minus 10 thou?
BTW - subbed
So is there a point where you stop messing around with neck tension and seating depth and start to use the tuner or how has it worked best for you (guessing best SD numbers)? I considered ordering one to use with stock hunting ammo due to the current shortage or reloading comps but watching interviews with folks from companies like federal they elaborate on the details of factory loads tell you that they use a variety of powders and primers that fall within a certain performance range due to availability. Unfortunately if you buy a box of factory ammo you will burn it off finding the proper setting for the tuner, which may be OK if you bought more than one box, but if you buy from a second lot you are doing the process all over again..
Thanks again for another great video!
I tested neck tension several years ago and found I really like a certain tensions so I don't mess with it anymore. That stays a fixed variable for me. I do a basic seating depth test like you see in the video but that what you see me do is literally the only seating depth test I did before going to the tuner. As for hinting ammo, you can do very quick tuner tests but yeah in general you'd probably want to buy at least a couple boxes of what you want to hunt with so you can use one to test with and one for hunting.
......lol....don't go with a loonytooner......another unnecessary variable you are presenting to yourself.....why?.....more ammo spent testing.....why?.....winchester's boss system, just another loonytooner, was a failure 35-40 years ago.....just trying to give you the old news of another gadget raring its useless head again.....you can take the advice or try it for yourself.
If you want to find the absolute best setting for the tuner, yeah, you'll burn some rounds, but you'd be amazed how quickly you can find a setting that will be substantially better than without the tuner. As long as you have a stable shooting platform and decent optic, you can pretty easily dial in an acceptable factory hunting load within 10 rounds. I don't know what Mr. Rumpel's problem is, but guaranteed, if a tuner doesn't significantly improve your groups, something else is wrong, because they do work.
....also Foonus - if they actually worked, as in a reliable variable to improve accuracy, don't you think Snipers would be using them in their field of work.....??....on another note, a word of caution on any advice from a game-boy.....lol
@@ericrumpel3105 you do realize that most snipers shoot 1moa groups at best with their rifle systems? tuners are just more weight that could cause problems. silly comparison
That was a great demo of this new tuner. It is interesting how the tuner impacts barrel harmonics and may be useful in dialing in as temps and biometrics change. Please forgive me. I am sort of new to viewing this channel but which cartridge are you shooting? Is it 284 Win? Thanks!
Glad it helped. As for the cartridge it was my new 7WT which is a custom 6.5prc necked up to 7mm with a few other changes.
Sounds like a great project. 7 mm will give you a little bit better help in the wind, rather than 6.5mm.
When doing load development on a rifle that you will use the tuner, do you start with it on at zero setting or start with no muzzle device and find your load. Then put tuner on and do tuner testing.
I always start with the tuner on and in whatever the particular tuner's neutral point is. In the case of the Cortina V2 it's with the tuner flush to the barrel.
@@FClassJohn thanks for the response, I have the tuner brakes so will start at the zero all the way in. Love your channel and content!
John, when "seating long" at home before going to the range, do you seat long with the inline die and arbor press, or just a regular press and seating die?
It doesn't matter for me. I've seated long with both.
This may sound weird to you but it looks crazy to look at one hole three rounds at 100 yards.
Big money glass at 35-40x mag, F-class rest and a $1k barrel do help.
@@Spaman42 Granted it doesn't happen every time, but with my handloads and a tuner, I was getting .20" 3 shot groups last weekend with a 25X Leupold, Bergara B-14 Wilderness (6.5CM), off an Accu-tac bipod.
this is quite easy. just get good barrel and trigger and learn to adjust your seating depths. getting your ES under 20 is a lot more difficult.
Targets from where? Please
Can you use that on a ruger rpr
New AB book from Byran Litz has a chapter on barrel tuners and his testing shows that tuners are basically snake oil. His testing is extensive and included the EC tuner. Thoughts on that? Would enjoy a video about this from you.
Two people can evaluate data and come to different conclusions. I have seen EC tuners and tuner-breaks tighten groups in multiple videos.
@@alvingibbons7543 That is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. No, that isn't how data or science works. Truth is truth. The entire baseis of science is repeatable results that establish fact.
1+1=2. That is fact. It doesn't matter who evaluates it, there is only 1 correct answer.
I have never seen a video where EC tuners or any tuner improved groups *with a large enough sample size to be statistically significant*. If you know of a video that does show that, please share it.
That is a serious misstatement! Bryan simply said that for his rifle, on a particular day, a particular load, and with a particular shooter, he could not identify any differences between using different settings on a tuner. That does not mean that another shooter, on another gun, on a different day would not find a difference using tuners....Test everything yourself before misinterpreting someone else's results....
@@christosvaliotis1503 Read better because he literally calls it out as being statistically unproven.
Litz also says he doesn’t notice a difference when annealing brass, that doesn’t mean I’m selling my annealeez… a lot of good benchrest shooters are winning matches with barrel tuners on their guns… obviously it’s not hurting anything
I'd really like to see a silencer compatible version.
I'm not involved in his business so I have no idea, but knowing him I'm sure you'll see one at some point.
Good information. Where do you get the mirage remover? Thanks
It's from a supplier in Italy. sandrocaroselli@gmail.com
the paper with the tuner going from 0-45 for 3 rows, was that multiple revolutions on the tuner each row or repeating the same series ? Thanks, I had ordered one just yesterday!
I had experienced best groupings with a Harrelson(22lr) set at zero so took it off(I don't travel but I can see where a change in environment can affect grouping that a tuner could mitigate) Think I'll play around with them again(last year I was biggest factor in group size so kinda over-shadowed other factors)
I'd assume it was all done in the same revolution. Based on my limited experience, you only really need one full turn to find the right setting.
@@whiplash636 I agree that's the way it's supposed to be used but since it has about 2 1/2 turns of threads was asking if he had experimented just to see if it made a difference.
I typically won't go more than revolution during my normal testing but once I have an established load and tunes I will test another resolution in or out depending on which tuner I'm using to see where further nodes may exist.
Hi what’s the name of that mirage shield?
They're sold by this guy sandrocaroselli@gmail.com
what is the range distance
I do almost all my testing at 100yds.
I have never seen a video that shows the tuner actually works. all inconclusive data.
.....no set screw on the looneytooner.....I can see that moving....accidentally....& driving someone crazy.....lol......it sounds like it's driving you crazy already my friend.
No not at all. It's virtually impossible for it to move unless you turn it. It was my front rest that was loose, not the tuner.
Does he make those for .22 rimfire
Yes, with an adapter to fit the rimfire thread.