Best Star Trek trial episode? TOS vs TNG vs SNW
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- Опубліковано 3 гру 2024
- #FormerNetworkExec #CallMeChato #strangenewworlds
Is Strange New Worlds' season 2, episode 2 the best Trek Trial?
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“Court Martial” wins not only because of Cook’s performance. Percy Rodriguez’s gravitas-filled performance as Commodore Stone gives the episode a degree of heft that the other episodes lack in my opinion. “Now listen Jim, not one man in a million can do what you and I have done - command a starship…”
I should have mentioned that, he was great, conflicted between his friendship and the good of the service
I thought the same about Percy Rodriguez. But in the whole I think The Measure of Man deeper because of the question posed by the process.
@@agranero6 measure is top 10 TNG while Court Marshall is top 25 original series? Hard to say your wrong, but I think I will stick with Cogley
@agranero6 Measure of A Man was a good episode.
But the problem then comes when, putting it through a military tribunal, you have to basicslly accuse Data's former Commanders, XOs , Division Officers snd Division SNCOs of being incompetant for "Promoting a toaster".
Besides, why give this case to what is clearly either an incompetant or unfavored JAG-off who doesn't have any staff.
Surely it could wait for better equipped JAGs to do the trial properly.
Or, better yet, judge it in a civillian court.
@@hellacoorinna9995 I always thought the weak spot of the episode was naming Picard and Riker as opposing councils when to my knowledge neither has any legal training, the dramatic effect is sufficient for me to overlook that but it's another reason Court Marshall resonates just a little better
From a legal POV, the main flaw in the SNW one is that it is far too emmeshed in with US Law whereas the other two concerned the principles of Law as such, and its basis in the Roman Law.
Well, that was short sighted.
It’s another instance of a habit among current producers to base their stories in current events, where the earlier shows would concern themselves with “what if” situations based off of general concepts and theories.
That's why they let Bashir off. It should be obvious that children should not suffer the crimes of their parents, and so should be be allowed to apply to the Federation. This is another case of taking a small plot contrivance to blowing it up to tear the Federation down for THE MESSAGE.
@@todd8398 first of all, it's "based on," not "based off of." Second, your argument is silly. Episodes of TOS like "A Private Little War" were ABSOLUTELY rooted in current events of the time
ST-TNG had several truly great courtroom episodes. Perhaps the best being "Drumhead," guest-starring the grand dame of American cinema, Jean Simmons. I think it was wonderful that she, an Academy Award winning actress, shamelessly sought out the opportunity to appear on a Sci-Fi television show. Though she wasn't the first, most actors of her generation were very reluctant to do television work. Of course, there was also Whoopie Goldberg who won the academy award for her appearance in "Ghost."
I had no idea she fought for that role, but she knocked it out of the park. That whole episode is legendary.
It's funny how political extremists will ALWAYS see the other side in that episode, while missing the point and not looking at their own side at all.
Much as I love “Measure of a Man”, I’m with you, “Drumhead” is easily my favorite, and by far the most relevant today. I also don’t see people mention it, but I really like “Devil’s Due”, no high concepts in that one, but it’s fun to watch Picard intellectually dismantle a con artist.
@@BlazingOwnager
Notice how few liberals who fought and claimed they'd DIE to protect free speech, even going to the Supreme Court so that Nazis could march in Skokie, are nowhere to be found today as the full force of a weaponized government of brought to bear on the unacceptable speech of the American political Right.*
*As opposed to the European political right, which is simply the "Tails" side of the socialist coin. National vs. International socialism.
Shame Whoopie turned into a far left lunatic. Guinan episodes were some of my favorite.
You hit a Homerun with your comment!
My takeaway from Mr. Cogley was always “ Books Captain. Books, books, books!” It seemed a little nonsensical at the time, but now it’s almost prescient ( especially with Spellcheck wanting to constantly change his name to ‘Conley’ !).
Well also how classic books are being "rewritten to suit a modern audience". Grab your Bond Books while you still can.
@@teekay_1Nothing new here. In 1818 Thomas Bowdler published his Family Shakspeare, a work in which he promised that "those words and expressions are omitted which cannot with propriety be read aloud in a family." The sanitized volume was popular with the public of the day, but literary critics denounced his modifications of the words of the Bard. Bowdler applied his literary eraser broadly, and within 11 years of his death in 1825 the word bowdlerize was being used to refer to expurgating books or other texts.
@@teekay_1 And Merriam-Webster's online dictionary changing their definition of "sexual preference" to say it was an offensive term after a Supreme Court Justice nominee used it so they could pretend she said something offensive.
And ~10 years ago Amazon removed the book 1984 from their users' Kindles (over some copyright dispute or something).
Yesterday's writers were dancing a ballet. Today's writers are stomping around like children.
naww, more like on the floor, across the aisle so nobody can pass, throwing a tantrum.....
BUT I WANT SPOCK CAKES!!!!
we have Spock cakes at home
WAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!! [right? lol]
Like how using lightsabers is now, more like using a club than a skill.
@@dsc4178 using a club is a skill....when you play the best techno music that gets asses moving....it's a skill, playing any electro record you can find and not having an idea how to keep the show flowing is a disaster....
wait, not the clubbing you meant sorry...
Yesterday's writers all had real world experience. Roddenberry had been a B-17 pilot, a commercial airline pilot (who lived through a crash landing) and a beat cop in Los Angeles. Today's writers get pumped out of post-secondary indoctrination centres with no idea how militaries, hospitals or court rooms actually work.
It's really annoying how they use Latin episode names now to try to make themselves look smart.
That’s why The Orville’s trial episode from Season 1 was so good. The Orville is the best Trek around.
Until the final season when it sucked terribly.
Lying on your applcation to Starfleet is an immediate dismissal. Don't they remember Simon Tarses from TNG The Drumhead? He had lied on his application saying his grandfather was Vulcan while in fact he was Romulan because he feared his application would be rejected. His career was over when it was revealed... Oona's trial should have made it possible for him to remain in Starfleet...
Two different universes. One is a retcon, the other is the reason we hate the retcon
@@rootcause7662Who is "we?" I have no problem with the retcon.
In Drumhead, I would wager that even a military court would recognize why the lie was made on the application. How many members of the US military going into Vietnam were the offspring of German military personnel who fled to the US and this was not disclosed to the US military. Even the Federation has to recognize that the discrimination was very present in their ranks, so immediate dismissal should not have been the course of action. Punishment, sure but he had a very legitimate reason for doing so in a world where this was probably far more common then they let on. Courts would see this as something that was not done in malice and would not set a precedent to discharge officers for this action, as you may quickly find yourself facing a PR nightmare and losing an unknown number of officers who did similar things.
Trygvar, you write: "Oona's trial should have made it possible for [Simon Tarses] to remain in Starfleet." I respectfully disagree; there is no inconsistency here. Una was specifically given a break because she was seeking personal safety. That (as far as we know) had nothing to do with Simon's decision to apply.
I disagree as well. It's a silly law that would blame the children for the crimes of their parents. Obviously there should be some exceptions to the Augment ban.
Elisha Cook, Jr, as Mr Cogley was the highlight of the ToS "trial episode"... his best role after Wlimer in "The Maltese Falcon"
Huzzahs a-plenty for your "Maltese Falcon" reference. Elisha as a Gunsel with twin 1911s and a surly attitude was a poor hire by Gutman for Bogie always got the drop on him.
Inside most character actors is a featured performer---which is something that shows like Trek used to take great advantage of. It's all the more impactful when the player is disguised by the exotic setting, as opposed to being a broad guest star in a more earthbound production, like Cook as Wilmer again on Magnum...
There's probably less room for that in streaming. The seasons are short and the recurring casts are large and have to get through all of their own dramas.
Elisha Cook was also the voice of Piglet (Winnie the Pooh) for decades.
I think he's a great actor and I also saw him in the Victor Mature vehicle "I Wake Up Screaming."
I'll still never stop thinking of Piglet whenever the guy opens his mouth in a TV episode or movie!
@@AvengerII John Fiedler was the voice of Piglet. He was Jack the Ripper in Star Trek.
@@noahbody9875 You really don't know how to read, do you Noah?
Not gonna repeat myself.
Read my original post.
If you don't understand how DUMB you sound to me now, that's on you, not me!
Don’t forget Spock’s court martial when they recut the managerie as a two parter episode.
For me it's between "Measure of a Man" and "Courtmartial". Have to go with "Courtmartial", which has become more relevant today because of the threat computerized tampering could have on justice. Initially, even Cogley holds the belief a computer can't be wrong. A dangerous belief.
Entertaining and filled with insights. My favorite Star Trek trial was Scotty's when he was accused of murder.
My favorite thing about that episode, Georges, was not that Scotty was on trial, but that it "answered" one of the great mysteries of Earth's criminal history: Who was Jack the Ripper? And after watching "Wolf in the Fold", now we know.
Court martial. Hands down. You gotta love it when in the age of interstellar travel, ftl comms, and advanced computers, the lawyer busts out law books.
Yes, the moment that Riker turned Data off in the courtroom was worthy of Perry Mason...
what about Peary Masonry? ugh horrible horrible joke....just horrible....
I should be locked away for crimes against comedy....but then again so should H-Wood so I'm even! lol
TNG: Pinocchio is broke!
SNW: Pinocchio is woke!
@@chriskoschik391 more like the crime is woke, the sentence is broke!
Riker has been ordered to prosecute the case to the satisfaction of the JAG or Data’s claim would face summary dismissal. Riker is frustrated at the case, but looking at Data’s schematics, he sees the off switch. He has his case. And we see his normal devilish grin. A brief set of strings for the score, insightful. He then realizes what this actually means… there is a very good chance his friend will be deactivated. The score takes a mournful turn to horns…His grin changes to a look of tremendous guilt. All of this… and Jonathan Frakes doesn’t say a single word.
Haha! I can picture Hamilton Berger complaining to the judge about more of Perry's usual theatrics.
I don’t remember which one of my old theatre profs said it, but it applies: Don’t be boring. It is the only unforgivable sin in the performing arts.
The best court room scene in Trek history was in 'Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country'
Great movie, but there were far better courtroom scenes in the TV series. That was not a trial, not in any sense that we think of it, and while it was great drama, it was not good courtroom drama.
I feel TOS Court Martial ranks higher in my esteem. You left out Kirk's speech when he testifies: "We were in an ion storm. Everyone here in this court knows the dangers involved. I was in command. The decisions were mine, no one else's. Charges of malice have been raised. There was no malice. Lieutenant Commander Finney was a member of my crew, and that's exactly the way he was treated. It has been suggested that I panicked on the bridge and jettisoned the ion pod prematurely. That is not so. You've heard some of the details of my record. This was not my first crisis. It was one of many. During it, I did what my experience and training required me to do. I took the proper steps in the proper order. I did exactly what had to be done, exactly when it should have been done." I also liked that Coogley had an effect on Kirk where years later, Kirk is collecting/reading books.
Now this out of Star Trek, but another great trial was that of Balthar in the BSG remake where Apollo defends him.
It was also made when MEN were men and WOMEN were women.
@@Jadty Back in the 23rd century?
You've hit on the crux of the problem with wokeness. It's always about emotions, and never about the law or even about principles.
I studied pre law in college, and something one of the professors told us was an old saying: "When the law is on your side, pound on the law. When the evidence is on your side, pound on the evidence. When neither is on your side, pound on the table!"
Very few of the people writing in Hollywood or in the woke culture have ever seriously studied the law, or even so much as gone on a ride-along with law enforcement. Virtually none has ever been in combat and put their life on the line for their principles (I've done them all). But damned if they aren't absolutely convinced of their own moral and intellectual superiority!
"...Very few of the people writing in Hollywood or in the woke culture have ever seriously studied the law..." And the ones that have only do so to twist and abuse it for their own ideological purposes. It's a hallmark of woke politics - everything has to be torn down and burned, even the law. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people will ignore the facts and instead vote with their emotions. I would hate to put my life in the hands of a jury these days.
Samuel T. Cogley could not have argued it better himself. Well done Chato!
Mediocre is right. The TOS story about racism "Their last Battlefield" is potent even today. The court case had science - remove all sounds but the heart beat.
TNG's version that is anti slavery story called "Measure of a Man" is also very good. Even if Data is fully reassembled, this will just create robots without self determination. Seeing Riker push a button on Data's back to turn him off was science in the science fiction (and a good gut punch)
SNW did not even live up to SNL's ST parody. They tried but ... they could not even come up with a bit of science for their science fiction.
Good point sir - SNW did not address the legal charge of lying on their application.
Thank you for the video. May the next version of Star Trek TV shows have better writers and some science in the science fiction.
The half black/ half white guys were subtle compared to the propaganda they churn out today.
Major difference: The person on trial in SNW is guilty as hell....
Exactly.
That is undeniably true, but I don't feel that that is the point. The question that occupied me while watching the episode was much more to what extent law and justice can be reconciled. As such, I found it quite amusing that it was a Vulcan of all people who pointed out that the law had been broken here, while in my head I could hear the real Mr. Spock saying that logic is the beginning of all things, not theirs end (a bit like the law here).
YES! YES! no
Halfway through the SNW episode I said, "Sorry lady, you're no Samuel T. Cogley, Attorney At Law." Heck, she isn't even Phillipa Louvois.
and the crews of Klutzman trek aren't even Dora the explorer level explorers....
it's sad when a meh kids show outdoes a show intended for adults and thinking people....
I judge nu trek as trash, unfit for the human mind...and all who partake without the conditioning of a field researcher like Chato here risk ruining their minds, hey a mind is a terrible thing to waste, don't watch nu trek....
What does Cogley actually do to defend Kirk? He pretty much gives up until Spock saves the day.
@@brachiator1 "What does Cogley actually do to defend Kirk? He pretty much gives up until Spock saves the day." *Thank you* for this. Cogley's inspirational speech, which Chato rightly praises, does *not* come because he is a brilliant legal strategist. He is a fascinating, eccentric character, but if Spock had not made his observation, Kirk was going to go down, with or without citing the Code of Hammurabi and the other documents.
I didn't like the way she kept smiling everytime she made a point. Stewart was grave. Everyone walked away in sorrow in the Drumhead.
@@valueofnothing2487 "I didn't like the way she kept smiling everytime she made a point. Stewart was grave. " That's an interesting perspective. I would imagine there are other people that would feel as you do, but it didn't bother me at all (i.e., I didn't even notice it). Defense lawyers have full-time consultants to study the way gestures and facial expressions affect a jury, and your reaction is the reason for that . . . you can't afford to annoy the people who hold your client's fate in their hands.
Your episode breakdown and comparisons are more entertaining than current Trek.
I watched Measure of a Man the extended version with the extra minutes and it really does add little highlights that are so good. The entire thing was written so very well.
shshaday, I didn't know there is an extended version of Measure of a Man (or any other episode). How do I find these?
@@BS-vx8dg it's an exta on the tng season 2 blu-ray.
There also a non vfx, vhs quality version of it on the blu-ray as well.
I have only seen TOS and TNG. I won' waste my time with this. TOS is by far my favorite. It keeps its fun edge while still telling a great story. That woman that was after Picard was... disturbing.
🥁I think The Drumhead was the superior TNG courtroom drama.
Two words Paul.... Spot on.
SNW better pick up the pace...and get over the woke...you could immediately draw the comparison between Una's Illyrian-ness and the "transitioning" issues of today.
Not everything is about intersectional issues, folks.
Also note the predominance of women, and the severe lack of white men.
Secret Hideout won't pick up the pace for one reason... Picard Season 3 was a fluke that occured when the producers left Matalas with the keys to the Trek van... SNW season 2 IS what those who are now back, want to make. Fans be damned. And they'll keep making it as long as they can keep the money flow going.
I say, put NuTrek on trial. Compare it to Classic Trek and rake it over the coals. It's time the Trek faithful took a page out of the Tolkien fans book and stopped being afraid to stand up for what good Trek was, and where Kurtzman and co are going wrong.
what do you mean when you say "woke"?
Agreed. There are 3 male leads - Pike, Spock and Dr. M'Benga on SNW and they were all reduced to bystanders watching the trial on video, while La'an Noonien-Singh and the civil rights lawyer taking the lead.
@@stephengrandt9304 what do you think I mean?
If you're questioning what I'm saying, it means you aren't sure about whether I'm using a phrase appropriately.
Well.... Given what my entire comments speaks to.... What makes you think my comments doesn't align with the phrase itself stands for today ?
Today's woke isn't the woke it stood for originally.
Una made an emotional plea, when two of the judges were Vulcans. That worked? Seriously?
You are doing a great service introducing TOS & Next Gen to that rare person who, for whatever reason, did not know that these series' are worth watching.
I forgot about this episode of Next Generation, thank you for reminding me of a great episode Chato. Also loved this idea of comparing the episodes, it was very interesting
I will always go to the original series Court Martial was very good Samuel J Cogley was a great character although the heart monitor sound way of scanning the ship for life forms was a stretch, however I can't say anything against measure of a man, one of the top 10 TNG episodes
I think "The Drumhead" is the definitive trial episode in TNG. "Measure of a Man" doesn't really feel like a "courtroom drama" thing; it's more like a classic moral dilemma episode.
don't devalue one over the other, both are equally important....and both are court dramas...
measure has more court procedure to it, drumhead has more grandstanding and witch hunting to it....both serve different functions using the same method...
I was about to say the same. You beat me to it
Both were good
@@judgedrekk2981 I'm not devaluing anything, just saying Drumhead is more "legal", while Measure is more "ethical".
@@dr.juerdotitsgo5119 There both not relay legal cases ~
There's also all the other moral tests epps where they get trapped on a planet or something by a god/alien etc
I do get you point, I suspect A Measure of a Man is just more iconic so it's the go to option.
Keep picking those scabs! I loved the lumpy stuntmen!
Excellent video as always Paul. Being a former network executive with your bonafides must have been torture towards the end!
That TOS episode is more relevant today than in the past first by A.I. and second by deepfakes and de-aging etc.
*Excellent* point, jinron. I wonder how juries 20 years from now will evaluate videotaped evidence.
What I didn't like with Una getting off very easily is that we already saw an example of someone lying about their heritage in the TNG episode "The Drumhead". A crewman who is investigated as possibly being an accomplice to a Klingon that cause an explosion on the Enterprise stated that they were a quarter Vulcan when in fact they were a quarter Romulan on their Starfleet Academy application. When the lie is found out, they're entire career in Starfleet was at risk of being stripped away even though they had nothing to do with the Klingon's ploy who was working as a Romulan agent.
Very very well said, please keep it coming!
Thank you! Will do!
TNG had another phenomenal trial in the episode "The Drumhead". In that episode, there was a warp core accident on the Enterprise that was being investigated as sabotage. Some investigator who's father was a famous judge, came aboard to conduct the investigation, and ended up going Joseph McCarthy, and ultimately, Picard had to hang her on her fathers own words.
A follow up to a Measure of a Man was The Offspring where Data created his “daughter” Lal whereupon Star Fleet felt they had the right to take her from him because she was considered property. The antagonist, Admiral Haftel, was despised until near the end when he realized Data was operating frantically like any father would in trying to save a daughter. Side note: Nicolas Coster who expertly played Admiral Haftel passed away this 4th week of June 2023. RIP
Such a powerful moment as Admiral Haftel walks out of the room wherein he and Data had laboured in attempting to save Lal's life, and in sorrow and resignation and empathy and awe, holds up his shaking hands and breathes out, "His hands were moving faster than I could see, trying to stay ahead of each breakdown... It just... wasn't meant to be."
His hands... were moving faster than I could see, trying to stay ahead of each breakdown. He refused to give up. He was remarkable. It just... wasn't meant to be.
Great example of the difference Trek and nuTrek. Because modern writers lack all nuance and class, if this were written today Admiral Haftel would’ve been a crazy raging ahole until the end. He wouldn’t have any arc, it couldn’t be that he’s mistaken or simply didn’t understand Data’s sentience, no he would be a canvas for the writer’s to vent their hang ups and political views. There’d also be f-bombs thrown into the dialogue for no reason.
@@YT1300MF That's because the writers of NuTrek perceive us as petty and smallminded, incapable of evolving beyond our own prejudices. Driven only by ego and emotion, systemically corrupt, systems of authority have to be denigrated and torn down.
There is no hope. There is no faith. There is no growth and upward striving.
It's all caustic cynicism and nihilistic snark.
There was also that one with the "Exocomps", those little floating robot things, which Data believed to be alive while others did not.
I would rather have Mirror Universe Spock repeatedly torture me with an Agonizer than watch Kurtzman "Trek."
PS - a superb video, Monsieur Chato. QAPLA'!
I wouldn't touch Nu-Trek with a barge pole. Poor Gene Roddenberry must be spinning in his grave.
Measure of a man is my favorite TNG episode. Because every piece of it is thoughtful, complex, well acted, scripted and just amazing.
I don’t think so. The JAG was especially bad. Even though she wrote THE ROSE.
The scene between Riker and Data at the end is among the best scenes I have ever seen
I ended up sleeping through this episode and wondered what I missed. Thanks for filling me in. I'm glad I got my rest.
Inherit The Wind is a very good movie. Disney writers take note.
I concur with your analysis.
Fascinating and accurate.
LLAP.
One of the brilliant parts of Riker’s Pinocchio speech at the end he has a smile, he thinks he’s won, then the realization this will end Data’s career and life. Brilliantly played by Johnathan Frakes
Today I was kidnapped in Afghanistan and forced to watch Episode three over and over and over.
Please send help!!
SNW season 2 episode 3
The days of great writers like Harlan Ellison, Richard Matheson, Rod Serling and Joseph Stefano are over. The closest i would go is Ronald D. Moore.😮😮😮
you really loved giving that Samuel T Cogley speech.. didnt ya. ;) He should have gotten a spin off. ;)
You're taking one for the team mr Chato, thanks
If I'm not mistaken in TOS The Federation had gotten way past this as humankind. That we evolved past our differences to unite. Maybe I remember Star Trek differently
"The verdict is the least important part of a trial episode." THIS!
Law and Order has been running for 20 years. Over 400 episodes. Why can't the writers of SNW watch a few?
I watched the SNW episode yesterday, along with a few other episodes, and I was hoping you'd do a deeper dive into Trek & Order. The show is very pretty. None of the actors do a bad job. In fact, Rebecca Romijn is a standout. As my mind was searching for a solution to the case, I asked myself what would be the wokest thing they could do. Invoking asylum status was the first thing that came to mind. You know, treating the massively successful, super strong, Star Fleet Commander with a spotless record full of commendations and blood that can repel any illness properly as the underprivileged minority fleeing persecution that she is. I laughed out loud when that statute was read from the book.
To me, the episode was so predictable that I figured it out within the first five minutes; incompetent prosecutor fails to do proper research, hotshot defense attorney finds a known but seldom used precedent that saves Una and Pike from prosecution, everything else was just filler to pad-out the episode for airtime.
I am English and I got very board of US Race Politics episodes in Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9 in particular). I just skipped them the second I realised which why they were going.
Of course the one and only best court room episode in TV ever is the one in south park where the lawyer uses the Chewbacca defense, that's the only 100% guaranteed success rate strategy in the couth room
I miss TNG. I think I'll re-watch it soon. Now to find where in the heck it's streamed these days.
Sail the high seas!
On Paramount and ONLY on Paramount...
I enjoyed the episode for the most part - as she pointed out, the asylum code is also law, so things are not as cut and dried as is being made out. What did bother me is that this granting of "assylum," clearly of great relevace, was never mentioned until the very end by the script, er, defence. And then the outcome I was expecting was guilty, but punishment absolved, rather than a complete "not-guilty" override of the other law but in this one instance only. If it's that clear then an exception should certainly be written into the first law.
ailurophile, I think yours are some of the most thoughtful comments I've read here. As to the failure to mention asylum until the end, I think that's because A) Neera herself did not come up with it until after she told Le'An her belief about who ratted out Una, and B) it's not real life, it's TV, and they needed it for dramatic effect at the end.
Nice video - I like the cut and dry way you approach the demands of a courtroom story in terms of solving the puzzle in question, regarding the transgression in relation to the rule - I'd never thought of it quite this way, but this illuminates the appeal of courtroom drama, and also I think mysteries like Agatha Christie - the pleasure in walking carefully through these meticulous procedures, and the appeal to a painstaking logical process, a belief in reason - and you're right, this sense of rigor is often what's sacrificed so often nowadays - this is a difference I've noticed re much of today's entertainment
- I get a sense this is a big aspect of what you're appealing to on this channel, and how it connects w a kind of universal humanity - for my part, I've only seen the Court Martial episode, and not for quite a while, but I've just recently rewatched Maltese Falcon, and the presence of Cook here brings to my mind an older tradition of Classical Hollywood storytelling that I think you also seek to evoke - and we could certainly use some more of that
To me, in a trial scene. I equate it to enjoying gift-wrapped Christmas presents.
Evidence = The holiday season
Prosecution = The size of the box
Defense = the wrapping paper
Judge = the style of lights/tree
Verdict = the bow used to hide the seems.
With that logic you could compare it to just about anything really though... like "a new house"
The verdict will still be the front door. Not all important or integral to the whole house, but if the knob comes off while you are leaving, it could ruin the whole experience.
Coincidentally I had recently watched Measure. I’ve been rewatching TNG. That is one of my favorite episodes in the series. I did not watch the SNW episode. I quit suffering through that abomination after season one. I expected SNW to be horrid because it’s Septic Hideout, but I gave them a season to prove me wrong. They failed.
There's also the one from Deep Space Nine, if you want to quickly compare in the comments or a follow-up short.
Edit: Forgot the title when I wrote the comment. It's called "Tribunal", from season 2.
The worf episode rules of engagement was good too
Once again, another inciteful and well done presentation, sir. Truly a great comparison and contrast of 2 excellent Star Trek shows (TOS & TNG) highlighting great writing, superb acting, and directed in a way that gave the audience the facts and left to decide on their own what the outcome could be. Whereas, SNW continues to show poor writing, woke BS, and horrible direction. Bravo.
This is why I believe that "new Trek" or kurtzman trek is basically... garbage. Everything I studied and learned about what NOT to do in script writing is actually planned out and done in kurtzman Trek.
Putting NuTrek on trial?
Hell yeah!
It's the reason I went to see The Force Awakens twice. Once because who wouldn't... and twice because... the first viewing left this hollow feeling in my gut. And I needed a second viewing to help me figure out what was wrong with JJ's first SW.
Observation... TFA wasn't actually a film with a story. It was a title cover. It was a billboard. It was advertising masquerading as a film, promising better things to come while delivering empty action and no personal growth of the characters. It was... the perfect JJ film. Which made it a bad SW film.
you are cool you said Stirling Silliphant for you young children who don't know him he wrote some very good TV and movies. Naked City, In the Heat of the Night and The Grass Harp.
I've seen the TOS and TNG episodes a couple of times but just clips from SNW. I've had to bail out of SNW because it's too painful to watch what they've done to Spock. He has been my favorite Star Trek character since 1966 and Kurtzman and Goldsman broke him.
Melinda Snodgrass was a great writer shat upon by the Paramount system
Keep up the great work!
My personal TNG favorite is "The Inner Light" in 5th season.
I don't know why... These people are sick. Best description ever! I still can't finish the season 2 first episode of SNW.
I've seen TOS and TNG. Court cases were well thought-out, and helped form my own strong sense of justice during my childhood.
Who the heck is Una?
This is the previously unnamed "Number One" from "The Cage" pilot, the first officer who was played by Majel Barret. The Strange New Worlds writers apparently just copied her backstory from an old Star Trek novel and didn't credit the novel's author.
@@KasumiKenshirou That's very insightful and makes a lot of sense.
“The Drumhead” Is the first thing I thought of when reading the title.
Another good one is DS9 ep “Tribunal” where Odo defends O’Brien who’s accused of an (unnamed) crime in a Cardassian (i.e. kangaroo) court.
An insider let slip that the "quality of mercy" style speech by Picard in "Measure" was, for the most part, written by Patrick Stewart himself, and not the credited author.
I watch you so that I don't have to watch them. I can count on you to both make sense and be entertaining. Thank you for your service.
Pretty sure the judge in Kirk's case is the Rastafarian kingpin in _Predator 2._
Another great trial episode in Star Trek was "Rules of Engagement", from DS9. Regardless, great video and spot on
You neglected to mention the excellent and poignant scene between Whoopie Goldberg as Guinan and Patrick Stewart as Picard in "Measure of a Man," in which she points out to him the dire implications of Data being declared mere property.
I liked Guinan, and WG is usually good in whatever she pops up in. Pity she turned into such a spiteful moron.
Another interesting comparison to make here is the DS9 episode (S5 Ep16) where Bashir is brought up on charges for the same thing, leading to him trying to resign in disgrace rather than face court martial (hence why it is not a trial episode). There’s a strong difference in attitude towards these rules despite touching on some of the same themes.
This was a great episode of the Chato's Legal Eagle podcast. The judge's decision makes sense as that is what emotion bound and illogical millennial sensibilities are all about.
I loved how you fixed the first episode
"If you havent watched it, that was a good decision." 🤣😂
You're absolutely fabulous a reference to sterling Silhophant. Absolutely excellent but wasted on these modern dolts. Another fantastic cast. But I should preference this remark by saying. I have just finished to 10% beers.. I hope you don't mind. Please keep up your efforts to inform me The trial over data, one of the greatest episodes on TV of any kind. I wonder if anybody Understood it was the basicshow up merit based over equal outcome. And what it means in modern society to choomeaningful friends over acquaintances.
what about "devil's due"? that was the fun one :)
I appreciate you watching Star Dreck, as it is currently constituted, and I think that these comparison episodes are fantastic, as they demonstrate just how talentless Kurtzman's crew is at this art. They really all should be in a different line of work.
The way to have fixed this is not steal the idea of augments in Starfleet from DS9, then they could have come up with something closer to Court Martial or Wolf in the Fold, i.e., Oona seemingly commits a crime on another planet or maybe breaks some other standard Starfleet protocol, and she has to build a clever, but realistic defense.
Wait a minute didn't doctor bashir already do this
This didn't even need to go to a court case. This was done better in DS9's "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" where Julian's genetic changes came to light and in order to save his son's career, his father fell on his own sword and took responsibility.
It wasn't a trial episode like "Court Martial" and "Measure of a Man" but I thinkn it's more on point for this. Sad all around for what they've done between 1998 and now.
Was on the edge of my seat waiting for you to read Picard's speech. xD
In A Measure of a Man Riker is carrying out his duty even if he dose not like it, he did not throw the case or cry. He almost won the case, today he'd just be a bad spy or something silly.
A Measure of a Man makes the Picard show not make any sense to, in TNG androids dont just have rights they are also well respected which brakes the plot of them being treated badly.
SNW Chato you did it and missed it ... the SNW and that other one ... Drek Trek i love it bravo bravo 👏 🙌
The SNW is guilty of most woke shows. They try to shoehorn contrived grievances into an outline and pretend it’s a real story. The ending where she blames everyone and everything else for her predicament (racism, phobias, slavery etc etc) only exposes the shallow thinking of the show’s writers.
Thanks man I love your sense of humour 😅💙👍
The Drumhead and The Measure of a Man are perhaps my two favorite TNG episodes.
Headline: Polite Canadian apologizes. World taken by surprise. Canadian unsure if opinion is too strong. Edit: A lesson was learned by all. A better vision of the world prevails.
Oh, those long stare deeply introspective close shots (seemingly showing the characters deep emotional paradigm shift) was like some form of cliche torture or something... Im sure of it. At least when they did that in the "Motion Picture" we had "state of the art" visuals to look at ...that seemed just as cool as they acted like they were to them on the screen :) Sad because I have usually loved the court roomers from OLD trekz :(
Drumhead should have been the TNG selection. Still good review as always from Chato.
Of course the 2 part Menagerie from TOS was something of a court martial episode. That was so good it wouldn't even be fair to compare it to the others. Heck it is sort of why there is SNW.
Another great video. I'd love to talk bout how good your video is, but am sure how great other people will say you are.....
Instead I will mention the 1080p quality and slightly spacy look of the YT video. Awesome....😁🥰
Now say YYZ properly and tell some people about the national heroes called RUSH.
on DS9 bashir was discovered been augmented by his parents and from that point on was been denied to reach high positions in starfleet
I literally stopped this video to rewatch “Measure” because it’s one of my all-time favorites. This episode is why Season 2 was the cementing season that made everyone love the various characters. Riders reaction when he realized he had a winning argument while studying Data’s schematics - first elation and then self-flagellation- was masterful TV. SNW is written by children compared to TNG.
The two real Trek episodes had an idea to bring us to and was written to get us there , the third non-trek episode had the agenda that you were meant to lead to .. but it couldn't complete because the story was left behind !
I am glad these terrible writers haven't figured out how to write good stories with their stupid agenda .. not that Star Trek needs that - It Always Had That !
Putting an agenda on top of an agenda just cancels itself out !!!
I introduced Court-Martial into my Reboot and got comments on how timely the story was.
4:06 - They added another possible punishment for her during the trial - Too bad it was not mention at the beginning of the episode
"Did I mention there'd be spoilers?" 😆
ME: This series is supposed to be before the original ST series and not about alphabetical and political rights...right?
KURZTMAN & THE WRITERS: We don't understand the question.