Good video with lots of great points. Only thing I would add is that these rings really emerged thanks to the prevalence of single braid dyneema lines which have an incredibly low co-efficient of friction whilst also being incredibly strong to allowing thinner ropes to be used, which then creates lower contact area and less friction. A good litmus test for where to use these rings is also whether you are using a single braid dyneema in the same place.
I use stainless steel splice eyes, much cheaper. Be interested to know the friction difference. Just found a test that includes round rappelle rings, they performed just as well. A splice eye will have a bigger radius so should be better.
Hey, running line through the inside, if you around the outside it can de-rail. If you want to go around the outside you need an Antal SectoRing, it’s a friction ring with a guide around the outside basically.
Thanks!! I can’t remember exactly how I did that one but most likely and eye splice. The other option is to make a larger eye splice and hitch it on which is handy if you may need to remove it 👍
Good video. Interesting. The friction ring you are holding in the video looks to have an eye splice at the far end. How much of the tail can you bury like that?
Hey, from memory this was a continuous loop splice that’s was lashed together to create the eye. It’s also only a demonstration product for showroom use. You probably gathered the tail wound be sufficient on a short loop if you use an eye splice. The continuous loop splice leaves way more tail inside the loop.
On deflection angles that require tighter than 90 degrees wouldn’t it be possible to stack two rings next to each other? Each ring would only deflect a max of 90 degrees. The contact surface and the bend of the line would be reduced. Two at the same location may even be able to be spliced or lashed together to keep things orderly while a line is slack. Would this work for a spin sheet at the back of the cockpit?
Yeah, it seems light weight can be a disadvantage too. Aside from a simple chain, Temo have a handcuff system. I know ePropulsion have electronic disabling via their app and I’m sure many others do too. They also have a coded immobiliser key which is handy.
Sure, that’s something to be aware of indeed, some are better than others, down to the coatings really some are even ceramic coated or solid ceramic! Check out antals Revo ring if you need some bearings in a similar sized foot print, I’ve not used them yet but they look promising. 👍
If you do that they tend to derail. If that’s what your after, Antal have their SectoRing. It’s an awesome piece of kit -www.antal.it/ENG/sectoring_eng
@@SailHubI thought Inorope invented that type of block where the ring turns around a dyneema "shaft" loop. What do you thing about those, could they replace a normal ball bearing block ?
@fredericmora I believe they are an adaptation of the friction ring, it goes the other way around. So the InoRope has the working rope going around the outside and is attached to the boat via a rope through the centre hole (the same as Antal’s SectoRing). The standard friction ring has the working rope go through the centre hole and the fixing rope around the outside. Both are great in the right situation, a note would be that the SectoRing and the InoRope may not like large movements - they can spin on the fixing rope and heat it up. As for who invented it first? God knows…. I believe Antal invented the original friction ring though. Could it replace a ball bearing block? In many places yes and in many no. Maybe check out our blocks video? ua-cam.com/video/y29derEIi4Y/v-deo.htmlsi=NaITel3sf9LgeurI
Interesting thought, there’s quite a lot of deflection there so you can expect some fast wearing too rings and then the increased that comes with that. Probably good for the kicker and outhaul but I would be looking at blocks for heavy loads. If you want to learn about blocks - ua-cam.com/video/y29derEIi4Y/v-deo.html
They can be, just depends on your boat. They work well on anything up to and around a J70. As mentioned later though.. If the loads become to high and the deflection is severe it all becomes a bit much and they become a “high friction rings!” 😂
Dangerous? No moving parts...in fact only 1 part. No sharp edges....in fact EVERY mm is smooth. Basically indescructable. Light as hell...in fact could be lighter if they ever go with $titanium$. FYI, the anchor line should be going through the eye hole and the moving line should be going around the trough. This leads to less friction on the moving line. Brummel the anchor line semi tight around the trough to keep the moving line seated, and youre good to go.
Hey! Thanks for the comment! Turns out they can miss shape if overloaded but it’s more the jerky releases under load that people worry about however this is miss use as they are not intended for that kind of use. As for how we demonstrated their use, I can happily say as a rigger that we reeves it correctly, if you runs the working line around the “trough” they would most likely de-rail. Especially when used in non constant load applications. Maybe you are thinking of something like the revo ring which is similar in looks but very different mechanically.
@@SailHub No, I'm just thinking of how I use them. They don't derail, and I can't really see how they would deform with nearly all the forces being matched dyneema to dyneema in a small area of the ring. For very slight displacements, I can see how sending the working line through the eye would work fine, but I don't see why it would be necessary or even beneficial in that use. Anyway...I'll be on the lookout for derailing.
@@mastpg I can see why you would use them that way, the deflection is less on the rope, however there is also more surface contact. Anyhow, I hope you can understand that with our videos we stick to the manufacturers recommendations, we have to in order to maintain affiliation and get more gear to test. It is cool to see how people like yourself change it up a bit though! For reference, you mentioned lighter rings a check out nodus factory and their carbon offerings.
I'm impressed that you didn't knock that glass of water over. Good job!
Haha! That’s Vodka. Keeps me ticking along 😉
Good video with lots of great points. Only thing I would add is that these rings really emerged thanks to the prevalence of single braid dyneema lines which have an incredibly low co-efficient of friction whilst also being incredibly strong to allowing thinner ropes to be used, which then creates lower contact area and less friction.
A good litmus test for where to use these rings is also whether you are using a single braid dyneema in the same place.
Nice, some good pints right there. Cheers 👍
Appreciate the information! We use rings as fairleads for guy lines, furling lines.
Nice! Thanks for commenting🤙
Good intel & great video - good job guys!
Hey! Cheers guys, Thanks! 👍😀
Look for UA-cam videos of replacing standing rigging with dyneema. All splices and low-friction rings.
For sure, I’ve done plenty rigging over the years. Mind you deciding on the rig for the new boat is fun! Techs gone mad and it great!!
@@SailHubI also love designing the new rig more than paying for it, or maintaining it!
@DrKnowNothing1 oooohh yeah, you’ve got that right. 😂
We’re going to have to pay soon though!
I use stainless steel splice eyes, much cheaper. Be interested to know the friction difference.
Just found a test that includes round rappelle rings, they performed just as well. A splice eye will have a bigger radius so should be better.
Sure, we’ve used those in the past too, they work well. The Antal secto ring is an interesting set up too.
thanks for the intel
Did you explain how to use them? does the running/moving line always go thru the inside? or can it also be around the outside groove?
Hey, running line through the inside, if you around the outside it can de-rail.
If you want to go around the outside you need an Antal SectoRing, it’s a friction ring with a guide around the outside basically.
Great info. How did you create and secure the line loop to the ring?
Thanks!! I can’t remember exactly how I did that one but most likely and eye splice. The other option is to make a larger eye splice and hitch it on which is handy if you may need to remove it 👍
Good video. Interesting. The friction ring you are holding in the video looks to have an eye splice at the far end. How much of the tail can you bury like that?
Hey, from memory this was a continuous loop splice that’s was lashed together to create the eye. It’s also only a demonstration product for showroom use. You probably gathered the tail wound be sufficient on a short loop if you use an eye splice. The continuous loop splice leaves way more tail inside the loop.
@@SailHub Thanks. a continuous loop with a lashing makes great sense.
Great info - thanks
Cheers 👍⛵️
On deflection angles that require tighter than 90 degrees wouldn’t it be possible to stack two rings next to each other? Each ring would only deflect a max of 90 degrees. The contact surface and the bend of the line would be reduced. Two at the same location may even be able to be spliced or lashed together to keep things orderly while a line is slack. Would this work for a spin sheet at the back of the cockpit?
Not a bad shout at all! However, you could use a secto ring which would do the same job for less weight and cost.
The electric motors seem easy to remove, and therefore easy to steal. Is there a way to secure and disable them while they’re unattended?
Yeah, it seems light weight can be a disadvantage too. Aside from a simple chain, Temo have a handcuff system.
I know ePropulsion have electronic disabling via their app and I’m sure many others do too. They also have a coded immobiliser key which is handy.
I have found that they corrode in time and then the friction goes through the roof and chafe the line .
Sure, that’s something to be aware of indeed, some are better than others, down to the coatings really some are even ceramic coated or solid ceramic!
Check out antals Revo ring if you need some bearings in a similar sized foot print, I’ve not used them yet but they look promising. 👍
Why don’t people use them with the running line on the outside? It would solve the issue of high friction at tight angles.
If you do that they tend to derail. If that’s what your after, Antal have their SectoRing. It’s an awesome piece of kit -www.antal.it/ENG/sectoring_eng
@@SailHubI thought Inorope invented that type of block where the ring turns around a dyneema "shaft" loop. What do you thing about those, could they replace a normal ball bearing block ?
@fredericmora I believe they are an adaptation of the friction ring, it goes the other way around. So the InoRope has the working rope going around the outside and is attached to the boat via a rope through the centre hole (the same as Antal’s SectoRing). The standard friction ring has the working rope go through the centre hole and the fixing rope around the outside.
Both are great in the right situation, a note would be that the SectoRing and the InoRope may not like large movements - they can spin on the fixing rope and heat it up. As for who invented it first? God knows…. I believe Antal invented the original friction ring though.
Could it replace a ball bearing block? In many places yes and in many no. Maybe check out our blocks video? ua-cam.com/video/y29derEIi4Y/v-deo.htmlsi=NaITel3sf9LgeurI
Are they friction? Or low friction rings?
Fair point! As per usual… they are whatever folk decide they want call them!
But... do you have a CLEW ! how to use these?
😂Fantastic 👌😂⛵️
Considering changing my mast base blocks to low friction rings. Anyone done the same? 36ft Beneteau.
Interesting thought, there’s quite a lot of deflection there so you can expect some fast wearing too rings and then the increased that comes with that. Probably good for the kicker and outhaul but I would be looking at blocks for heavy loads. If you want to learn about blocks - ua-cam.com/video/y29derEIi4Y/v-deo.html
.... so these are not ideal for a kicking strap.. 😅
They can be, just depends on your boat. They work well on anything up to and around a J70. As mentioned later though.. If the loads become to high and the deflection is severe it all becomes a bit much and they become a “high friction rings!” 😂
Dangerous? No moving parts...in fact only 1 part. No sharp edges....in fact EVERY mm is smooth. Basically indescructable. Light as hell...in fact could be lighter if they ever go with $titanium$.
FYI, the anchor line should be going through the eye hole and the moving line should be going around the trough. This leads to less friction on the moving line. Brummel the anchor line semi tight around the trough to keep the moving line seated, and youre good to go.
Hey! Thanks for the comment!
Turns out they can miss shape if overloaded but it’s more the jerky releases under load that people worry about however this is miss use as they are not intended for that kind of use.
As for how we demonstrated their use, I can happily say as a rigger that we reeves it correctly, if you runs the working line around the “trough” they would most likely de-rail. Especially when used in non constant load applications. Maybe you are thinking of something like the revo ring which is similar in looks but very different mechanically.
@@SailHub No, I'm just thinking of how I use them. They don't derail, and I can't really see how they would deform with nearly all the forces being matched dyneema to dyneema in a small area of the ring. For very slight displacements, I can see how sending the working line through the eye would work fine, but I don't see why it would be necessary or even beneficial in that use.
Anyway...I'll be on the lookout for derailing.
@@mastpg I can see why you would use them that way, the deflection is less on the rope, however there is also more surface contact. Anyhow, I hope you can understand that with our videos we stick to the manufacturers recommendations, we have to in order to maintain affiliation and get more gear to test.
It is cool to see how people like yourself change it up a bit though!
For reference, you mentioned lighter rings a check out nodus factory and their carbon offerings.
LOW friction rings.
Really? That’s just marketing waffle😆
What a strange chap.
It takes all sorts to make the world go around 😜