Does The Tesla Semi Make Any Sense? Part 2!
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- Опубліковано 5 січ 2023
- With the latest details released on Tesla Semi, does it still hold up?
Does The Tesla Semi Make Any Sense? Part 1 - • Does The Tesla Semi Ma...
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Now that Pepsi has taken delivery of 36 Tesla Semis, with plans for 100 through 2023, we have a few more details about Tesla's Class 8 truck offering. We'll see which claims hold up, and which don't, diving into the battery capacity, range, and weight. Does the Tesla Semi make any sense?
We'll look at eight major aspects:
1. What is the battery capacity?
2. Tesla's 500 mile test drive.
3. What is the real world range?
4. How far do Class 8 trucks need to go?
5. How much does the battery weigh?
6. What is the cargo load deficit versus a diesel truck?
7. What is the load capacity of the Tesla Semi?
8. How much weight do Class 8 trucks need to carry?
References:
Transportation Energy Data Book - tedb.ornl.gov/
PNAS Trucking Study - doi.org/10.17226/12845
Class 8 Average Milage - afdc.energy.gov/data/10309
Tesla EPA Filing - dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_f...
Reuters/Subsidy - www.reuters.com/business/auto...
Energy Calculation - pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021...
Trucks 7.3 mpg (pg 5-17) - tedb.ornl.gov/
Trucks 5.3 mpg (video 1) - afdc.energy.gov/data/10310
Jersey Barrier 1 - americanconcrete.com/transpor...
Jersey Barrier 2 - www.accentbarriers.com/2020/1...
Jersey Barrier 3 - www.epiccrowdcontrol.com/conc...
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**Important Note!** I left out a source for the 7.3 mpg figure for diesels, this comes from the Transportation Energy Data Book (Dept. of Energy) often referenced in the video, and references "all class 8 trucks on flat terrain." I figured since I'm using flat ground for my Tesla calculations, I'd apply the same benefit to diesel. The 5.3 mpg figure referenced in the first video was also from Dept. of Energy (video description links all sources). And to the truckers in the comments, hello and thank you for sharing your experiences! Y'all are the best drivers on the road, and I mean that. Respect!
Euproen Volvo make 10mpg and more
The problem with the Semi isn't the engineering it's the economics. As is the majority of truck drivers are independent contractors. They aren't gonna buy an electric Semi with no infrastructure in place. The only way this makes sense with large corporations with local delivery routes.
The fuel consumption for a loaded big rig is about 6 mpg, per the US EPA 2017
@@user-ye6sg8lh4n speed limit is a lot lower in Europe. About 80-90km. (50-55mph) in the US, 100-120km (60-75mph) is very common. Air resistance is the biggest subtractor to efficiency, and the faster you go, the lower the efficiency.
Current semi uses 2170 batteries, the S uses 18650, which are relatively heavier.
The three plaid motors used are actually more powerful than the four '3' motors available at initial launch, and each is surpossed to be more powerful than a diesel motor.
But the big advantage is the weight saving of the plaid motor. One can actually pick up the plaid motor, and about the size of an American football.
I have to say, you’re the only person to make a math video both understandable and interesting. Thanks.
Haha, appreciate it!!
@@EngineeringExplained Impressive work... especially the part about the not impressive speed of TS. I am waiting for part three where it will take into account how low temperature, precipitation, wind, pavement with reduced grip, battery degradation, will affect the range of the TS.... it would also be interesting information to try to calculate the difference in battery degradation to a passenger car. Alternatively, how fast can you do TS 1,000,000 miles compared to a diesel truck in real world scenarios.
Also factual, haha. You literally won't find good math of Semi anywhere on UA-cam. It's either haters or fanboys. However, nobody was so wrong as 'Tesla Semi is a scam' guys were.
💯 true
@@EngineeringExplained Yes, standing ovation! Honest journalism and good research.
Fun fact: sugar sweetened sodas are heavier than diet sodas. When I worked on a soda delivery project, the sugared sodas weighed out but the diet sodas cubed out based on NJ and NY rules.
The Pepsi trucks will be used to move soda from a bottling plant to warehouses around the service area, and the delivery distance will be anywhere from 10 or 20 miles up to a few hundred miles. There may be a few places where soda gets hauled over 500 miles, but that would be the exception, not the rule
yes bottling happens fairly close to point of sale. teslas are still crap though
And Frito Lay will definitely never max out their weight limit. 😂
What weighs more 1lb of sweetened soda or 1lb of unsweetened soda?
I got a run for Coke, not gonna say where, but the total run is 400 miles from origin to destination and back to origin. I do it every weekday and I'd need just a little more to do it or I'd need to recharge during the hour while waiting for load.
@@Thumper68 drinks are in fluid ounces, a unit of volume. for coke vs diet coke, its apparently 384g vs 370g per can, about 4% lighter.
I love how you manage to extract useful data out of seemingly unrelated and useless videos and pictures Tesla has put out. I loved using the tire size to verify the length of the barricades.
As a mechanical engineer currently working on class 8 EV’s, I found this video very informative and enjoyable.
What is your thought on the Tesla Semi?
One percent of the population grows food for 100% of the population. If all of you ( uneducated pseudo engineers that think gadgets maintain your cellular structure) die, then life gets easier for everyone propping up your useless and lecherous existence. If all the people growing your food die, you die.
The Tesla video only briefly showed the cargo, and the pallets weren't stacked anywhere near the roof. It must have been quite dense to achieve 82k GVWR. Still wondering if the video was truly honest.
@@falseprogress 26 pallets per standard trailer. Easy to fit 1000lbs on a pallet. No trailers get stacked up to the roof, it’s not practical. Also not good for weight distribution
@@tonyarce5427 What company are you at?
Hey truck driver here, point on speed.
It's extremely common for trucking companies to set the governed speed on their trucks to between 60 and 65 mph due to the beneficial impact on fuel economy. I've rarely had a truck that could manage 75 and that was always a rental.
Either way the semi in its current iteration was not designed for long haul.
Oh yes, everybody knows after we all had the pleasure of stuck behind one truck with 60.5 limiter trying to pass another with 60 limiter on a two lane highway
I'm glad i drove a truck with no limiter and 600hp. In many states I would be cruising at 80. Traveling at 60 mph is miserable, would fall asleep.
@@greentjmtl 😂😂😂
@@fondfarewell2 90's? Early 2000's?
@@fondfarewell2 Lol, in Germany the government speed limit is around 50mph for trucks on the Autobahn and about 40 on country roads. Have fun falling asleep there lul.
It’ll be interesting to see how this truck does in the cold while doing all this.
Into a headwind
@@AlphanumericCharacters yea it is never windy.....ha ha. Plus they need to factor in the batter degradation from rapid charging. wait till they are 2 years old and loose 8% from all the fast charges. Also Using that data is kind of like using IRS documents to show business profits.....They aren't going to match up.
The cold makes a big difference in my Model S range.
@@Mikefngarage Lets see. Remember, the trucks are using the 4680 cells, which will degrade slower. Also, whether or not its there now, energy is and will continue to be cheaper that oil. Anyway, we will see.
@@sebastianorye2702 For now, they're using the 2170 cells from Giga Nevada, not the 4680.
Another thing to consider is that the amount of battery that goes into a single tesla semi can make over 50 plug-in hybrid cars. A lot of criticism is not necessarily about the feasibility, but rather the allocation of scarce resources.
Almost like we should stay with gas and diesel.
Interesting point, because I think the answer might actually be to put them in the trucks. They are used more consistently so the payoff is realized more consistently.
I'll put it into perspective. Let's say semi trucks make up about 6% of the 1.4 billion cars globally. That's about 84 million trucks. Let's say the battery weight is 4500 lbs, with 7% being lithium. That's 315 lbs. We take 84 million multiplied by 315, and we get 26,460,000,000 lbs or 13,230,000 tons. There are only 14,000,000 tons of Lithium that is economically viable to extract on Earth. Meaning we would nearly exhaust the supply by replacing semi trucks alone. Applying a similar formula to cars with an average EV battery being 25 lbs, we would need an additional 16,450,000 tons to replace the current generation of cars with EVs. Keep in mind, the projected number of cars on the road is set to double by 2040. It hurts my brain when I think about all the infrastructure that will be wasted on this doomed technology.
@@derrickmiles5240 Interesting! I agree that we should really think about where to allocate resources (please not into SUVs, which seems to be Tesla's strategy too (facepalm)). Your global truck-count sounded impressive at first, but a bit of back of the envelope tells me they check out... However, it might that the future technologies would need to be based on lithium, or we could go with overhead electricity above big trucking routes, or even directly with trains (by far my preferred solution)...
Anyway, I'm happy that more and more people are trying to help others open their eyes on Tesla. It's not a bad company, it's just not what it pretends to be. False marketing and more importantly the support of all the tech and DIY-finance world as well as greedy investors has meant they were able to make out like gangbusters every time they bled some stock... It really has to stop. I'm wondering how Renault or BYD or Hyundai would have done with the infinite money and goodwill supply... Certainly not bad... In general, small two-wheelers, public transport, small cars, electric bikes have done way more for mobility and ecology worldwide than Tesla could ever dream of (and each of these separately). On the pure numbers terms, Toyota and others very efficient vehicles should also be credited for what they achieved - efficient vehicles for the masses. Still, we now should reduce CO2 production more, and that's certainly not by buying big Tesla cars (but rather Swiss Microlinos or Taiwanese Gogoros for cities, and trains or car-sharing for long distance). If long trips are regular, a private electric sedan might make sense, particularly if car-pooled. On the trucking side, I might agree with @ShimmeringSword: it does make sense to produce electric trucks, to an extent.
I really hope the Tesla brainwashing stops.
Or.... cars are the waste of resources and we should focus on building out public transport infrastructure in anywhere with a mildly dense population and reduce need for cars? Trucks need to send cargo where alternatives would be hard to build more than people need cars where alternatives would be hard to build
Loved the part where you read the tire size to calculate the size of the load.
That was a nice touch.
There are two types of people in the world:
1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
.
@@eric-. 😂
Funny. I did a similar calculation based on usual trailer length. You always end up at the 10 foot long barriers. Had a discussion with someone who claimed it's the 4 footers and I was like "nope, that trailer is not a short bus".
It’s amazing what you can do with a sharp eye and a little science.
My dad was a truck driver and he used to tell me no matter how long your route is, if you stop more that 5 times (stop signs, lights, yield signs, etc) it's basically impossible to average more than 55mph. Now I'm starting to wonder if that was true or not... Seemed true at the time!
trucker here...I time plan a route at 50 MPH everywhere except the east coast which I use 45 MPH due to traffic.
What years? The federal speed limit used to be 55mph. Even with a bit of speeding it would be hard to get back to 55mph on an 8hr route if you spent 10 minutes stopped and another 10 stopping and accelerating.
I _feel_ like I drive 60-80mph for most of my weekly driving. However, my car reports average speed of only 28.4mph.
Just divide the number of miles driven by the amount of time, to get you avg. Speed.
It’s definitely true. I run a backwater route that cuts through a few no name towns. Outside the towns, 65+ speed limit, within the towns, 40 and below. On a good run, wide open road, one or two red lights, run can be done in about 2h45m. If I happen to catch all the reds, the run can be over 3h.
In fairness, if the Frito-Lay products are their bags of chips, with a full load the Tesla Semi will probably float up into the sky like a blimp and have unlimited range
My only complaint is they're basing the weight of a standard semi to a sleeper cap semi which is roughly around 17,000 lb but a day cap semi usually can hit around 10,000 lb due to it not having to carry additional gear and supplies. Also a day cab is stagnantly cheaper than a sleeper cab almost half the price at times, used ones you can buy for $15,000.
if 60% of loads are maxed out on volume, what difference would that make?
@@andys31337quite a bit in fuel efficiency at higher speeds and loads. Unless the power plant is using any combination of wind, solar, or nuclear for charging, it's not going to make any difference in greenhouse gases.
EV's also have the problem of once they catch fire, firefighters have no real way of putting them out, except to let them burn out, and try to keep it from spreading. That is a major problem when looking at Wal-Mart trailer......ever consider all those cleaners and other liquids that is in one of those trailers? That's a major problem nobody is really taking seriously enough to really talk about. What do we do when one catches fire, and the trailer with God knows what is inside catches fire.
Living in a sea port City, I see plenty of semi driving containers over the last miles from the railyard to the port and back, in congested traffic. Those electric semi may be the best solution for this application while also removing the pollution from the urban centers. I still doubt their usefulness over long haul, at least until the charging infrastructure develops
Enough shitty batteries are environmentally destructive and dangerous technology when they are made in these sizes
Same with me, I don't understand why everyone is making such a big deal about how this can't function in long haul trucking. This is a first generation electric truck that is very much for urban environments and after a generation or 2 will get better and better range, I'm not sure if will ever fully replace diesel on long haul anytime soon but removing any is better then nothing?
@@user-ye6sg8lh4n yes, there is still pollution, but they are moving the pollution away from where most of the population lives
@@user-ye6sg8lh4n Why are you only concerned about environmental impacts when it comes to batteries? Why aren't you concerned about acidifying oceans, acid raid, temperature increases, sea level increases, or particulate pollution?
@@dr_tails658 the idea is that current technology is better suited for short to medium haul, but instead of Tesla making a smaller truck for this, they decided to make a semi, which is the best suited for long haul, so everybody is looking at this truck from the long haul approach
Great video. I’m a mechanical engineer and your analysis is great. I think it’s obvious the Tesla semi will start as a short / medium haul truck. There are many situations where these will make sense and over time as technology, specifically battery density, improves over time longer hauls could make sense.
I'd argue that we should be investing more in trains for long haul freight anyway.
@@keco185 Improving the average speed of freight trains by 10 mph would produce huge benefits. High speed passenger rail gets the attention, but higher-speed freight rail has huge benefits. Much of the truck cargo has already been hauled by rail.
the Tesla semi battery system is Modular , its EZ for them.
Battery densities (kg) have more than doubled in the past decade and likely will stay on that trend a while still. A 2028 TS might have a 700mile range. Or they'll offer up to 700mi and allow customers to choose what range vs weight they want.
You still need all the trucks to handle the head end and the tail end of any delivery. You can't pull up to Joes Bait shop with a locomotive.
Most trucking companies may only get loads at that max GVW 10 or 15% of the time. But they need all of the vehicles in their fleet to be capable of hauling it to prevent from losing that those loads when their customers need them.
A race car doesn't drive at top speed around the track anywhere but the longest of straights. But no team is going to take a car that goes 10% slower than all the other cars just because they only do it part time.
At last ! A comment from someone that understands the truck market. The Semi may sell a few trucks to those hauling their own goods locally providing they are lightweight. For the majority of the market, the Semi is useless and will never sell in numbers
@@jimpackard8059You shouldnt underestemate how big the market for "short" distance trucking and fixed routes is. Like between harbour, factory and warehouse. Same with bulk material like gravel or liquids in tankers. The amount of load you can carry at once doesnt matter just the price per ton.
@@jimpackard8059 Also why do you ever need truck for small batches? (under 8000kg) like...there are vans there, much smaller and more efficient
@@jonasstahl9826 But! Just but! What if US people start using VANS for small batches (under 8000 kg) on a small distances? just worndering
@@jonasstahl9826 you make a good point but what we do know is that the Tesla Semi will not carry a full load and will thus not satisfy the existing market in full . Somebody needs to give me a reason why Musk has refused to state the payload after years since the launch. I guess they are still trying to make it viable but cannot do so.
One thing worth taking into account is that no battery is ever drained fully or charged fully unless you are prepared to shorten its life. Ev manufacturers are very careful in trying to protect the batteries. So, the 850Kwh battery would probably read zero when it actually had upto 20% charge left. This means your 850Kwh battery would need to be bigger, say about 1,062Kwh. This adds to the weight and size of the battery and a corresponding drop in cargo capacity.
No way that Tesla includes a 20% buffer, my guess would be 6-7% at max
@@Steinegal I did say upto. I know all EV manufacturers are going to have different margins of residual charge that their engineers feel comfortable with. I am by no means an expert but I have read in a number of places and seen a few videos where it's claimed that the batteries are not fully charged or fully discharged and this will be controlled by software. So 6% to 7% couold well be true, unfortunately Tesla is notorious on being tight-lipped about any technical deatails apart from the headline stuff like "we can accelerate 3 times quicker than an ICE vehicle. " When it comes to other more intersting deatils like battery weight, actual battery capacity, weight, cargo capactiy, tractor unit weight, etc. they are notably silent. It's a pity really as it is an opportunity to showcase their abilitites. Of course others will see this as them avoiding the question because it doesn't sow them in a superior light.
So, 6% or 7%, it's ceartainly possible. Will we ever know, probably not.
and and no calcs for batter degradation from all the rapid charging and full cycles. I am sure the trucking companies would be totally agreeable leaving a truck like that on a slower charger for what days? (sarcastic) at a time 850kw would take a huge amp 220 to charge it or some sort of high voltage setup. it takes a 50a 220 to charge a tesla overnight which is what 50kwh for a base. roughly 4kwh at 10hrs. so an 850-1100 OMG WOW.....not alone the energy draw during peak demand.
and the high voltage setup to charge that faster I am sure would be TOTALLY SAFE.......Yea. right.
@@Mikefngarage Yes, people underestimate batteries, they equate EV batteries with the kind of thing you put in the TV remote, or the. Even a 12V car battery can be dangerous. An 850KW to 1,000KW battery at 1,000VDc will fry you and kill you stone dead in an instant if you interact with it incorrectly. Don't forget if you have a 1,000KW charger it's going to need it's own substation, so that will be small.
Thank you! Tired of people doing shady math based of half a sentence from random articles. Thanks for actually doing some research and trying to be as empirical and objective as possible. I am a big fan of Tesla engineering but I’m sick and tired of the bias (both for and against). Let’s be objective and impartial.
@@benoitavril4806 elaborate.
It's great. We just have to divert all our tax money to Elon.
Nobody is more shady than Elon. Why not just tell people how much it weighs, what's the payload, and when can the people that put deposits down 5 years ago get their trucks .... Instead we have a pile of videos that begin each sentence with "we can assume", "possibly" "maybe", and "theoretically"....
@@richbosch9564 what company divulges information on a product that has not yet been put for sale publicly and available? No one. Go get the specs on a new generation mac book pro that hasn't come out yet... Or a ford mustang that has a new engine... It's normal.
Those m1 and m2 chips are still a mystery.
@@mmdias87 quite right mm-87, the only people that actually need that information are the people actually getting the trucks, that have put the infrostructure in to charge the vehicles. I am sure that tesla is working with those customers to make sure the vehicles meet there needs. By the time the semi is available to all, the specs will be better than they are now. This is when this information will become available. Indeed.this seams to be the status with all semi trucks. It is difficult to get this information on any semitruck. NIKOLA bev publish the gross vehicle weight for semi and trailer not the mass of the tractor unit.
Most of these organisations have covered themselves and have reservations with all potential suppliers, as units become available it will be interesting to see which they go forward with. It appears to me Tesla's semi outshines all the rest by miles. But no one else has such outstanding motors and management systems. Only other ev motor in the running could be lucid's but they have not got to semi's yet. Thankyou Lucid for pushing tesla to come up with the plaid motor and control circuitry., real competition can be good.
You're one of the few motorists that I'll let teach me about semi trucks
I can teach too
@@jimboTTT NO
As long as Elon is protecting free speech and disrupting the journos, I'm with Tesla.
@@taylorc2542 come back to this comment after 1 year xD you should do some research dude
@@kevindelgado7083 tell us what you know man…
What about degradation of the battery? How quickly will it cut into the range/weight economics? Excellent video thanks, very instructive!
If it's anything like with regular teslas they are supposed to have >70% of the capacity left after 8 years or 120Mm.
@@ruukinen Realistically they have a lot more, 70% is the replacement point. Most are still above 90% at 120k miles.
@@OtisFlint Yes but that's what Tesla is "guaranteeing" as warranty. If someone is sceptical it helps to use the worst case scenario instead of looking at optimistic examples.
@@ruukinenis that Tesla numbers or customers? As elon lie about everything
@@AnemosFPVYou do know what a warranty is, right?
As a fellow mechanical engineer for automobile company, I love your videos. Keep up the great work.
Neat fact - at 10:45 when talking about load weights, that 54k lbs is very high for a normal road truck. With the 80k lbs cap, most road trucks max out the load at 45k lbs - doesn't matter if dry van, flatbed or reefer. 45k lb load is normal and considered to be the cap, and depending on the configuration at the time might even be too high to juggle the axles to be legal.
So that was a good stat. 😀
You risk running afoul of axel weight limits the more you go over 40k which isn't a problem everywhere but it is on the west coast where the bridge laws are 40ft or less and you can't slide tandems
@@TheJacyn313 - oh I know. I'm currently sitting in the basin in SoCal waiting for my next load. California's 40ft rule and the standard 34k lb tandem limits are why we have to juggle - but I've been consistently hauling loads at 42k to 44k without issue as long as the loaders know what they're doing to balance it in the trailer. 😀
@@Broadpaw_Fox thanks for these posts, they are informative to someone like me who’s not in the trucking industry. I’m sure I could ferret it out of some dry regulations manual somewhere but “ain’t nobody got time for that!l 😉
Max weight a truck can haul is 105500
When I delivered Pepsi on route (48ft), we were loose on axle weights, no scales. But always became skeptical we were legal when loading past 45k, and threw a flag at anything past 46k.
It was certainly a neat combination of maxed weight and maxed cube.
Jason, It is great that you show the math behind all of the engineering concepts you discuss. Performing math and logic was always a bit of a struggle for me. However, when I see you use it, it seems a lot less intimidating and it makes me want to use it more.
Crazy that the government subsidy is higher than the initially announced price of the trucks.
So if these things had come in on budget then Pepsi would be MAKING $16K profit for every semi they purchased?
I'll happily drive a Tesla car if the government pays for it AND gives me an extra couple grand cash kick-back for my 'trouble'!
@@StreetPreacherr Unfortunately, it seems we've become a nation that was built on freedom and hard work to one of entitlement. I hope I am wrong.
Very happy to hear this - cars alone are quite intimidating! A big goal of the channel is minimizing that intimidation (for not only viewers, but also myself!).
@@StreetPreacherr If government is involved in any way that's a show stopper. It's not likely Pepsi gave government any consideration at all when they made this decision. Government is too fickle and corrupt to have as a partner...period.
@@jasonligo895 We are a nation like all others...instituted by money-changers for money-changers who are protected by the governments they institute.
Great catch with the speedometer, but we can also corroborate that with the observation that vehicles in the next lane are nearly always quickly passing the semi
the issue with the FMCSA and other agencies gathering data on truck weights are that they are taking all truck weights gathered and not looking at all truck weights collected when loaded. The data is skewed due to many of the trucks moving empty to pick up another load elsewhere meaning that the entire segment about truck capacity is primarily based on a false premise. You are better off talking to Werner Enterprises, Schinder, or Crete about their average weighted loads, having worked for them before I recall the average being much closer to 78K - 79K loaded, most tractors were just a few thousand off of the legal limit.
As a European, I am again amazed by Texas. 85mph speed limit for trucks?! That's illegal in most countries of the world, even for passenger vehicles.
My assumption has always been that vans & reefers are cube constrained, not weight. Dump trailers and flat decks do often appear weight constrained (gravel, steel, etc). And there is a massive LTL and short/mid haul industry - even up here in the frozen land of Hoth. Many farms hauling grain / livestock are just going from farm to terminal/feedlot/processing plant. Massive cross docking warehouses shuffling loads that may have come in via long haul, but then head out on short haul runs where the driver makes 2-3 trips / day and goes home for supper.
An electric semi w/ 500mile range is a totally useful, necessary product. Now can be financially viable. That's the question.
Re: refers, depends on the load. E.g., a load of soup cans, beer, or beef maxes out weight.
As a dispatcer for reefer trucks, I would be happy for Tesla Straight truck, but semi... not sure.
where I live (Sydney, Australia) you can differentiate the two kinds of trucking just from driver behaviour. The long-haul drivers are generally polite, aware and careful, and the local drivers are dangerous lunatics. Presumably different incentives at play
The subsidy needs to go away so real math can measure cost/benefit. No mention in most videos of federal and state taxes on liquid fuels vs mileage taxes on EVs.
Fun story. Friend of mine use to work for a lightbulb distributor and they were definitely cube constrained. That was until those compact fluorescents lights came out. He packed the trailer full as usual and when the trailer drove off it blew all eight tires.
1. What is the voltage of the chargers?
2. What percentage of battery capacity is lost on each charge?
3. What is the cost to replace these enormous battery packs?
4. How many full/partial charges can these packs be expected to take?
5. Real world must include cold climate hauls. How much is the range impacted from freezing temperatures?
Great video by the way. Math and science can be boring for some, but you broke it down in layman’s terms. Keep up the great job!
1. Likely 800-1000V chargers.
2. Not a simple answer here. Nobody measures battery longevity like this.
3. Take a Tesla Model S battery replacement and multiply by 9
4. Tesla usually quotes 1500 charge cycles. This should be good for 600-700K miles. If battery longevity has improved, more is possible.
5. It's a bit difficult to know. All vehicles lose range in wintery conditions if you're driving on snow. If you're just talking about cold weather, the range loss shouldn't be that much on a huge vehicle like this. (Battery-to-cabin size ratio is very different from a regular EV)
This is a great breakdown. I'm a semi truck driver and I expect electric big rigs to slowly take over local and regional routes, but long haul will likely remain diesel for quite a while. I think it will take a long time to develop a charging network that can handle the energy demand.
I wonder whether hybrid diesel/electric is a good option. I imagine that the transmission setup would be the limiting factor there though. Maybe a diesel powerplant with an electric drivetrain?
@@MotorcycleWrites But Tesla's whole point is to get rid of emissions from diesel, primarily diesel particulate matter; and a diesel/electric hybrid wouldn't achieve this.
@@BigBen621 Tesla’s whole point is to make an enormous amount of money from fleet sales lol, but I get what you mean. Battery trucks won’t be a practical solution for long-haul jobs for a long time, hybrid might bridge the gap between efficiency and range.
@@MotorcycleWrites I agree that battery trucks won't be a practical solution for long-haul for quite a while, so perhaps diesel-electric hybrids *might* help bridge the gap.
@@BigBen621 or we could just keep using diesel trucks. Adding a hybrid system doesn’t make highway mileage that much better anyways, and that’s where the majority of fuel will be burned.
There’s just not a great alternative to traditional semis for fast, long distance delivery.
After watching part 1 and 2, that are well explained, I don't remember any mention of weather, specifically the cold. Simple things like heating and maintaining the large cabin and windshield as well as ensuring the batteries stay at their optimal temperature must have an impact on the range, and even when the drivers take breaks, unless the semi is plugged in, it will be using some battery power to maintain its temperature in the cold.
Cabin heating can eat up 15% of range in a model Y (78kWH?), but the relative size of the battery pack means its negligable. Only the impact of keeping the battery at temperature to worry about
The volume of the cabin in a semi is not appreciably larger than a midsized sedan overall, and even if you assume double the losses in an absolute sense, having 8.5x the batteries means the impact from that cold is going to be quite a bit smaller. Likewise, the surface area required heating compared to the volume scales in a positive way such that keeping the battery warm is made easier by the large pack. Most importantly, unlike an small EV which needs only 10s of KW to keep moving at speed, a semi will be generating likely 8--20x the thermal energy from battery inefficiency during use. This is a gigantic pool of thermal energy to use for heating the cabin, which as mentioned is not all that much bigger (perhaps even smaller) in volume to a Model S/X interior.
Now..... Not saying this is a non-issue altogether, but for any sort of long-haul, I would be quite surprised if the impacts are anything more than 10% by heating losses. More critically may be increase to wind resistance due to increased air density during cold/rain/snow, or rolling resistance increases when roads are wet. There is a great JCEA paper about rolling resistance of iso standard tires (SRTTD etc) which suggests that wet roads can increase rolling resistance by 40% or more. This would be the biggest likely loss for a heavy fully loaded semi, above the aero and creature comforts, while for an unloaded semi, aero dominates.
With 800kWh+ battery cabin heating is not an issue. I doubt that it will be more than 1-2kWh per hour . Moreover, electric motors are effective, but 5% of loss, will give you more than 40kWh transferred to heat. The biggest concern is that you need to warm up 10000 pounds battery pack before your trip. It will take a huge amount of energy, but can be done from the grid
@@demkaage lol…… it’s not just the cabin but also the batteries and auxiliary systems.
@@demkaage what if you don’t have accès to the grid!? Does every point of deliveries needs to have grid connectivity??
I love the format of your math breakdown videos. Very nice to see some straightforward calculations instead of just speculation.
windmills and Soler is ineffective argument closed and you are a woke sail out
I suspect the battery capacity is actually 1000kwh but only 850kwh is usable. This is due to the fact that the battery will only be super charged which is the worst thing you can do to the battery. The unused 150kwh is probably rotated among the cells to preserve battery life.
Very thorough, I appreciate you adding references as well.
It's going to be interesting to see real world data out of someone who actually uses this truck. Would be great if Pepsi posted some statistics on how the trucks are working out.
I wouldn't trust those numbers anyway. Gotta wait for independent data analysis for anything reliable.
*EDIT* Sorry, I meant Pepsi's numbers, in the scenario that they even reveal that data in the future...
You would think that if it beat Diesel we would have heard something about it by now. How long do you think it would take Pepsi to figure out how the Tesla Semi stacked up against Diesel semi's? A week? A month? They have had one for longer than this yet no media blitz from Tesla with the success story and real life numbers? I did read an article that said Tesla did a 500 mile trip at almost maximum capacity and the Semi did it handily. What they did not disclose and so far nobody has been able to find out, is what maximum capacity is for one of these? That is the single most important statistic for any semi and I find it telling that it is not published.
@@johnandersons maximum capacity of the truck is the maximum allowable by law. 80,000 pounds.
It seems like the biggest factor here is Cost. What I wanna know is the cost comparison to drive this thing 300 miles on Electricity vs 300 miles using Diesel. If it costs significantly less to charge one of these then the numbers make sense for a $200k truck.
@@johnandersons Those numbers will realistically take a couple of years to correctly get. Just as it takes a few years to reap the benefits of owning an EV or solar etc. They're initially expensive, but take time to recoup the differences (being positive and assuming the Semi does compete economically)
There's a LOT more to the Semi than just cost A to B. Maintenance and safety are two other plusses, the latter is hard to put a $ figure on and the former will take time to guarantee (there could be an unforeseen design weakness for eg, they are a completely new design)
I assume you watched this video? EE shows a pretty reasonable estimate of the truck's loading capacity. If that's anywhere near accurate, I can't see the trucks NOT being financially viable. It will still be case by case, but it should cover a large range of cases.
Damn, speed limits for trucks are really high in the USA :o
As always, you answered almost all of the questions I had. One statistic I looked for, but couldn't find, was regarding the weight of loads, is how far do heavy loads typically travel? I have hauled thousands of miles towing a trailer, but the trips I've driven when nearly fully loaded have ALWAYS been just barely, if at all, in the double digits of miles. If I have heavy loads to haul I find the nearest source to reduce my fuel costs. I'll haul firewood from home to the cabin, but if I need stone? I'm looking to get that from the nearest supply source. I wonder if that thinking holds true for truck shipping too.
Yes and that's also consistent with the efficiency of electric power trains.
Anecdotally I can tell you that my company frequently ships out overweight loads which regularly travel 1-2,000 miles to their destination.
I did try to include average distances traveled for loads within this. There are more detailed numbers referenced in the sources listed (if you want to see a more detailed breakdown), but ultimately if something needs to go from one side of the country to the other, it's going to be broken down into specific length trips to make it happen.
No such limit in the trucking business. The heavier load reduces MPG, but apparently the customer is willing to pay for it. Probably not significant in the larger scheme of things.
@@flacjacket that must be single piece machinery since it is illegal to combine lighter loads to make them overweight.
I think a major challenge is the infrastructure. I think the claim was made that the truck could be 75% charged in 30 minutes. Going by your figures that requires a 1.4MW charging station. A truck stop would need several, say 10 at an absolute minimum because of the waiting time. 14MW would supply a town of 10,000 people.
Thank you for explaining that EVs may be able to have a symbiotic existence with ICEs. It’s unrealistic to think one format is best for everyone and all situations.
I suggest a lot of automobile consumers are going to come to the conclusion that the hybrid automobile is the best option so that you have range & torque without being tied to either energy source solely.
@@JoeOvercoat a lot of consumers will come to that conclusion and then be forced to go all electric anyway.
It’s hard to call if symbiotic when one side will be growing and the other continuously shrinking. As the technology gets better and fast charging more prolific, the exceptions to EVs will become fewer and fewer. At some point buying gas and servicing an ice car will become increasingly expensive.
Some people still ride horses and use horse drawn carriages in 2023. Some people still use CD roms and DVD drives.
There will always be some specialty cases. Ice or hydrogen will be relegated to the periphery in maybe 10-15 years.
@@qwerty112311 I don't think anyone will be forced. The Prius is a fantastic car that is a hybrid. I doubt even California will ban it.
New EPA regs to reduce average particulate matter (PM) density from 14 to 9 PPM (I think its PPM or mg/cu meter) described as "challenging" by most manufacturers. Problem is diesel soot very bad for people's health especially poor people living near highways. Costs billions every year is asthma, respiratory problems and heart attacks. So, is a backward step in terms of load carrying and extra "refuelling" time worth taking if it means healthier people? I imagine explaining to grandkids that we used to drive cars that emitted poisionous fumes because they made it easier to get around. They will think we were mad. Even more so if there was an alternative but it cost 10% more or took 10% longer to get somewhere, so we didn't use it.
A very big factor that you did not include is climate. The performance of these vehicles will be seasonably curtailed in a very dramatic way during certain months in the upper midwestern and northeastern USA. This means your estimates of how many routes based on expected range are dramatic overestimates for a very significant part of the overall trucking industry.
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I must say, of all the doubters, your opinions are the ONLY one making sense and are legit.
I have seen too many newspaper, bloggers, "independent" analyst making false reporting, but yours, just right.
Job well done.
I work for FedEx Freight (LTL) and these electric semis could make sense for city operations (pickup and delivery locally) and if the charging infrastructure is put in at all of our service centers, even for our linehaul guys. The only area of the LTL business that they may not work is in linehaul on lay down runs which is where a driver drives for 550-600 miles in one go and stops for the night away from their service center. Those runs are much much less common than the usual linehaul where our drivers drive 200-300 miles to either a meet point with a driver coming the other way and swaps trailers or drives that distance to another service center, and gets other trailers heading back to their home service center. With the meets and the center drops, they can have charging infrastructure in place so that when the driver is on their lunch break at the center or meet point they can charge up a bit and have the range to make it back to the home center where it’s charged before next use.
But the charging infrastructure has to be fully in place for it to be viable and that’s going to take ALOT of chargers that are very expensive to install.
The chargers are indeed expensive but they passed a law last year where if people install a charger the federal government pays for 30% of it.
I could see Pilot for example installing some chargers at every stop, they will want to compete for the EV business.
So for local trucks that stay in a city... How many of those would be idle at night and needing to charge? How many chargers would be needed, and then we can take that and understand the electrical needs, because I think its massive. Not saying we can't do it, but that infrastructure will take time.
@@pierredelecto7069 even with the federal government paying for 30% of them they cost over $200k each. And every parking space will need one. It adds up fast. At FedEx Freight we have 17,000 tractors.
Why are trailers swapped? Are the tractors day cabs so that the driver can be home for the night?
@@dfor I don't think these chargers cost quite that much. Maybe though. I saw quotes online of 40-80k per charger.
They wouldn't need them at every stall. Just a few. Then as more EV's hit the road expand to more. They'd make specific bays for EV trucks, kinda how we see for electric chargers.
Excellent video! Thanks for finding the sources for volume vs weight limiting on semi trucks! I have been very interested in how packaging materials actually help the transportation industry in terms of cost savings.
Ill have to go through this math once again. But thanks for bringing in a new perspective to a rather binary pov most of us were holding about load factor and range.
It is refreshing to watch a video that provides a balanced and objective analysis of a Tesla product. This video has been very helpful in explaining some of the factors that need to be considered. We are on a 'journey' to alternatives to Internal Combustion Engine vehicles. At the very least, Tesla will continue to be important in providing options in the development of future transportation means.
Ok but this video is assuming those barriers each way 4000. There’s no way to verify that.
They could each weigh 500lbs and we’d have no way of knowing.
At the same time US are one of the worst rich countries to develop the ev-truck. Just due to the size.
In the Europe in 500miles you can cross at least one whole country (eg. From Belarus to Berlin via Poland).
@@ianfisch7289
Try this for a start.
The "width" (thickness) of a standard Jersey barrier is 24-26"?
They were 3 wide across the bed?
There was about a 1/2 thickness "spare" on either side?
.
26 x 4 = 104"?
.
What's the standard width of a trailer bed?
102".
Those were standard cross section Jersey Barriers.
10 foot standard barriers average at 4,000lb
Even if you assumed they were *8 foot* barriers, they would weigh 3,200 each.
....
Final check.
Apply his assumption, *using the drawings he provided* to my calculation.
3 barriers wide plus a gap each side.
4x 500 mm (from the drawing!) that's a bed width of 78".
Remember the actual bed width? (102")
@@ianfisch7289 ????
@Ian Fisch
I think he's done enough to show that they are typical barriers and he found the weight for typical barriers. Sure, the barriers on the truck may be a different weigh, but unless there is some major subterfuge going on, I think we can safely assume that 4000lbs is a good estimate for the purpose of the video.
I love how you cite all your sources, something uncommon with a lot of UA-camrs.
Hi, thanx for great job!
I would be thrilled if you would elaborate a little more around the energy density on pack level.
You use the energy density of the Model S, which uses other cells than the Tesla Semi.
Have you made an estimate of the volumetric energy density, as well?
You have done an amazing amount of research, thank you so much, because figuring all this out by my self will make my head hurt.
Jason this is possibly your best video yet. Thank you for answering so many questions like the dependence of speed on efficiency that few other folks out there seem to be addressing, and doing an excellent job of citing your (credible) sources rather than relying solely on SWAGs. Your approach struck the perfect balance. Future topic idea: that $.07/kWh claim made in 2017. Most folks don't seem to grasp that utilities tend to penalize large power consumers for not only peak time of use but also the peak power demand vs total energy consumption (i.e. KVA peak 15 mins vs total monthly kWh). In the early experiences of electric transit bus operations this peaky power consumption resulted in kWh prices higher than diesel/mile. Since Tesla is making aggressive moves in the energy utility sector this may be an ace in their sleeve but it would be worth doing the math to figure out what that would take in terms of Mega Packs, energy arbitrage, etc. It is likely an important problem to solve if we are going to get serious about electrifying the heavy duty vehicle fleet.
Keep up the great work!
Also...10.8c/ mile TAX EVASION, Diesel federal road Tax is 24.3c/gal, Average State Road tax is 40.2c/gal. EV truck is EVADING 64.6c/gal. at average of 6mi/gal PUBLIC is cheated out of 10.8c/mile in Road tax for the heaviest machines that cause most damage to roads
@@pablopicaro7649 Do you know that's true? For example, I drive an EV, and my registration has me pay an annual EV fee (like gasoline tax) which ends up being more per mile, since I don't drive all that much, versus if I were driving a gas vehicle.
@@EngineeringExplained Depends on the state. I'm in Arizona driving a Tesla and I have no annual EV fee.
@@pablopicaro7649 I would argue that diesel trucks are evading a yet-uncharged carbon tax. I see your point, but as a society we are letting combustion vehicles escape paying for the true social costs of their propulsion system as well.
@@iowa_don Ohio has a $200 yearly registration cost. When more EVs become popular and State DOTs have funding issues you can bet your ass that states will start charging and states with cheap rates will increase them. I kinda think registration costs is a bad long term solution. I suspect there will be a general tax on ALL electric use. Even if you don't have an EV car you are benefiting from the transportation network. Imagine the world where there were no roads to transport goods. Since EVERYONE benefits from the transportation infrastructure it only makes sense to tax everyone, not just vehicle owners/users. Taxing electricity usage makes the most sense. Two birds with one stone kinda thing because it will also incentivizes solar panel usage on people's homes and corporate business. Further helping electrify the grid and reducing overall emissions associated with electric generation.
Tesla fact-checked by an engineer. Good stuff!
yes and not thunderf00t
and the engineering checks out
Now i want it to get fact checked by a real engineer
This is the mechanical engineer that didn't know how to use calipers right?
What if i told you that 1000s of them work at Tesla...like what
Good video thanks - Agree we need to know purchase cost and what percentage of the trucking industry has 1MW of spare power per truck to charge them. I won’t even get into what other markets besides the USA they may be targeted at as in its current form it wouldn’t come close to passing ADR’s here in Australia and there is no talk of allowing EV trucks greater axle weights etc either so the numbers may not stack up outside the US
Great Video. amazing analysis. thank you.
I love listening to your lessons and science. Engineers with teaching skills are a rare species.
I think the cold winter weather will be a big factor also, I believe it reduces the range by 15 to 20 percent on average?
That's the one factor that needs more attention; what about heavy loads traveling through the Midwest north in those dead of winter months?
@@sonacphotos Tesla model S in norway loses 40% of battery in winter time.
At least it did 2years ago when i tested it.
Likely a reason that these 'pilot' implementations seem to be confined to more southern regions. ;)
There is a great advantage with vehicles that are regularly used on longer trips. The battery pack retains heat and that helps maintain efficiency. Short trips in cars that are left to go really cold show more impact from winter. There will be some winter/bad weather range reduction for the truck but probably less than affects current EV cars.
Average winter loss is closer to 30%…but these things are forbidden discussions in the marketing and government funding departments!
Amazing research as always , great job :)
Excellent video, I appreciate how much I learn from your content!
Wow, brilliant, especially your cross-referencing and multiple source checking of numbers, i.e. concrete blocks to tire size to web-sites etc. Brilliant!
52.5mph happens to be ABOUT exactly what trucks are allowed to go in Europe ... They are limited to "80kph", but in reality typically goes 84-90kph, median perhaps around 87kph. Some go as fast as 92kph. Depends on limiter calibration, tire wear etc.
A few goes significantly under 80kph even due to tire wear.
I think they target 86kph for calibration with new tires -- since 6kph is "technical reduction" when measuring speeds for fines ...
This truck might not be very popular in Europe since their length classification takes into account the length of the tractor - that’s why they’re all cab-over designs there. Cab over is horribly inefficient for aero so it would not work well for an EV
There is no such speed limit for Europe as a whole, each country has their own regulations. Semis in France, Portugal, Belgium, Luxembourg can for instance drive up to 90 km/h (56 mph) on motorways, and it's even 96.5 km/h (60 mph) in the UK. International trucking in Europe is a nightmare, regulations are not just about how fast you can drive (there are now mobile apps that tell you if you drive over authorized speeds), but also when you can drive during the day, if you can drive over week-ends or on Sunday, where you can drive depending on your weight or type of cargo, etc.
Currently, there are about 25 countries with truck driving regulations, and 10 with no special regulations.
@@stupenduzzman The max length of the cabin is about 2.35 m, although there are also double-cabin trucks, but it's still a vertical flat front.
Recent efficiency regulations actually allow for much longer aerodynamic (rounded) cabins with 7-10% more fuel economy, but there are simply no such truck on the market (yet), because manufacturers are not forced to switch over some of their production to these efficient designs. EU at its best...
Aerodynamics are less important for trucks than for high speed cars. Still, a 7-10% fuel savings on a yearly bill, or a similar reduction for electricity, is nothing to laugh at. And with a 0.36 air drag coefficient or so, the Tesla semi is even more aerodynamic (about 20% more) than these "rounded" European designs.
Very interesting and informative, Thank you
As ever, the insight is brilliant, the conclusions well developed, and the presentation interesting! No small feat!
4:37 - Inertia is energy that is converted into kinetic energy of the vehicle and will eventually come back as range when either decelerating via coasting or (part of it) when recuperating. It is kind of a similar field to potential energy and elevation. This conversion on both directions is not perfect (losses apply), but is not as bad as you may think.
So in the video he is assuming 100%. I believe the real world number is no where close to this.
@@cmitchell17a1 the efficiency is pretty close to 100%, as he showed in the video that the semi barely lost any energy from going up and down a large hill.
@@beanapprentice1687 Proving anything here is going to be difficult when it actually doesn't exist yet except for prototypes and proprietary internal Tesla information. Can you provide any non Tesla semi evidence of the 100% efficiency (or even close to it) of regenerative braking? That means 100% of the kinetic energy lost when a driver decides they want to slow down is 100% returned at a correct later time?
one thing not reported is, Tesla semi can go Full Bore downhill because no Friction brakes or JAKE brake.
Thank you for working out so much of the engineering on projectslike this! It is fascinating!
That was a phenomenal, well laid-out, analysis!
Thank you!!! This was an awesome science-and-data-based breakdown. Kudos for citing your sources!!!
I'm glad you did a part 2 of this. Very informative.
My truck, a 2018 Cascadia, weighs 22k lbs wet with my crap in it. I drive from Salt Lake City, UT to Twin Falls, ID, a 450 mi round-trip, Monday to Friday. If I installed a charger at my house it would work fine. I agree that a significant number of diesel trucks could be replaced by electric, but think it would be closer to 60%.
Very well documented, as always it is precise and solid. Good work! Let's see now if Tesla can deploy adequate charging station for the trucks.
yeah, with 1000V charging, they are starting at square one with the semi truck and charging. Not sure if the Cybertruck is backwards compatible or the charging speed on gen 1,2,3 superchargers. It will be an interesting year for sure.
A lovely analysis, as usual. Thank you.
Fantastic roundup. I love it when we can all just break down the numbers and see if something makes sense. Great investigative journalism BTW 👏
He hide the real evidence until the last couple seconds of rhe video, Pepsi is getting free trucks!! Actually not free, taxpayer paid trucks, turns out you need massive subsidies to make EVs work, every time...
They went from 4 motors to 3 motors because they originally were going to be model 3 motors. But after they made the plaid motor they used that instead as they are far more powerful therefore only need 3 of them.
And that is a good thing. Fewer things to break and less overhead energy waste.
Great analysis and use of info sources!
great video, Thanks to put all this in simple English. keep the good work
Really good engineer’s investigation.
Whichever way you look at it, this truck is a marvel of technology, which is going to improve over time in reaction to real world data and technical/innovation advancements.
Companies and hauliers are going to be keeping a close eye on how the Tesla Semi performs, and how able it is in improving their profit margins and cost. There’s a lot of emotion surrounding this product, but in the field of business it’ll be hard pragmatism.
In the UK, I challenge anyone to maintain a consistent speed of 70 mph all day long, (much of the time for a minute), and as trucks are governed to 56 mph over here, it’s looking very promising for many use cases.
TESLA already said, there is a clear path to 1.6 kwh/mile and even 1.5 kwh/mile.
As an OTR driver, a Tesla or any other electric truck would work for me. I generally pull heavy loads and not often near a place to charge the truck. Electric trucks have their place, Pepsi, Coke, most grocery store deliveries could use them, in most cases. Overall in my Volvo with a D13 I am seeing 7.4 mpg tuning most of the lower 48, including the Rockies.
State of California , as of January 1 2023 is BANNING all Diesel semi over 14,000 lbs made before 2010/with Engins before 2010.
you can replace with Engine made in 2010 or later, buy a 2010 semi or better yet the Tesla semi .
any thing ICE is no longer Sustainable , and going Foreward ICE will be Phased out.
in California they are also BANNING gas cars/trucks from SALES in 2035 , and HD Trucks/semi from SALES 2045.
expect many other States to adopt these MANDATES.
CARB has 26+ Member States.
ELECTRIC Vehicles , and Electric semi /HD trucks are the Future.
@@markplott4820 you are reading way too far into my comment. You are putting words and thoughts into my mouth and thought process. Besides that, I do not go to CA.
Thanks for such a sensible review!
The biggest killer I see to Tesla semis is the range + charge time. You're getting 45+ minute change time for 400ish miles of range vs 5-10 minutes of fueling time for 1000+ miles of range. That might not seem like it would make a huge difference, but if you arrive to fuel/charge and there's 2 or 3 trucks in front of you, instead of waiting 20-30 minutes you're there for a few hours and potentially have your day ended. That's catastrophic.
What an amazing amount of research and CSI-level investigation. Thank you so much!!!
This is unbelievably well explained! Great job. Thanks
Did you read the article with comments from actual semitruck drivers about this semi? The 'in the middle seating', for example, is frowned upon. Lots of other usuability issues too.
Wow! You’re amazing. So detailed!
The question is winter range and charging speed in winter.
I think public money would be better spent supporting new rail infrastructure that can be more efficient and faster at once than any freight electric vehicle.
Correct. Rail is far more efficient in many cases and this is an misuse of tax payer money
True, so in that case the EV truck is good for 'last mile' from depot to delivery
Rail is about 1/3 the cost of trucking. I don't know what is holding back the rail industry from building more infrastructure to take away from long haul routes. Is the capital cost too high to build the lines vs the trucking industry using the extensive network of government funded roads?
@@sanisidrocr But elon musk whole chungus 100 said that taking a diesel electric train off of the tracks, removing the diesel generator engine, shrinking its cargo capacity significantly, and making it compete with traffic is a good idea!!!
Convoy Semi train is cheaper than rail door-door.
Once again, an informative and balanced video. Thanks so much.
The short answer is that it will make sense for some use cases, but not all of them. Given the speed, distance, and weight restrictions of a given transportation use case, as well as the availability and cost of alternatives, it will make sense for some use cases. Which, from a business perspective, makes sense for both consumers and producers even if it's only the best option for 10% of use cases.
Did you even watch the video? He says it fits 60%-90% use cases.
I don't think their point was that it's only good for 10% of cases, it's that even IF it were only good for 10% of case it would still make business sense to use it in those cases.@@Victor-vj5ds
I guess Credibility is your middle name 😊 Really informative and easy to follow, thanks.
You really killed it with the research. What an awesome job 👏
So "Does The Tesla Semi Make Any Sense?" Of course, as long as the government pays for it.
It will. It's hard to imagine the government would dismantle all roads before this is released.
I like the analysis. Helps a lot.
Fabulous to see well researched an objective analysis. Makes sense and is realist. Well done 😊
Nice work on the research and presentation of data:) Far better than most if not all the videos and comments I c on UA-cam about Tesla.
This trip is done mostly if not completely in CA. CA has a truck and auto with trailer speed limit of 55 MPH. Meaning that 15% of time at or above 60 means they were speeding.
... just like real life drivers would do!
@@MrAdopado yes, it is realistic. The video creator just seamed surprised that the driver didn’t spend more time at or above 60 but the speed limit being 55 explains it nicely.
Bravo. Impressive. A true man of science. Reaching a conclusion and then back testing is the definition of good science.
I love how you cite your sources
Can we also start pushing for a POWER LINK to batteries built in to the trailer for extended range trailers? If there is still extra capacity in most situations, why not have a class of long haul trailers with batteries built in that link to the tractor and also regen brake? Would be really useful in the consumer travel trailer market as well!
Weight of the overall tractor trailer would leave a reduced load capacity but where lighter but bulky loads were normal then it could work.
@@djtaylorutube Right, but we just went over in the video how rare it Is to have loads with full capacity
@@donchaput8278 yep,I hadn't got that far into the video. :)
My main concern has always been the financial part of the trucks. If they're being subsidized in such a way that they're practically free, I feel like it is a bit of a trap. Forcing financially sub-par options to do mid to less than the standards already in place is wasteful and ignorant. I imagine the upkeep of the vehicles being grossly worse than the standard diesel as well.
Thank you for the math and explanations on the technical side.
my biggest fear is the loss of capacity of batery packs
yes the truck may be able to do 500 miles on a fresh cell, but over time it greatly reduces the max capacity possible, especially when you power charge them.
@@IronPhysik Exactly. Which is makes them prone to being financially cumbersome compared to diesel.
The other thing to think about is cold weather range. Some people have been showing towing tests with the F150 Lightning and other evs that loose up to 50% of their range towing in cold weather.
Ignore the "towing" piece. Cold weather is really hard on batteries and their chemistry and makes air denser and harder to travel through.
I always love your videos, but this one is especially awesome. Your calculations and then cross checking and cross referencing the math and actual facts really is fantastic. Thank you!
Great break down! Also worth considering, the securement system including wooden block is easily 1500+ lbs. and the driver and gear is generally estimated at 300 lbs. 👍
It’s kinda fun to see people who dont know much about transportation try and estimate that stuff.
Idk if youre familiar with thunder foot but his was straight up laughable, he said a 10ft jersey barrier was like 500lbs when in truth theyre 4000. And people dont really realize that every single pound is meaningful when you’re talking about truck driving, even the straps themselves can put you over the soft 20lb variance in scales.
Gotta count the truck, trailer, and cargo itself of course but also literally everything else on that truck and people tend to overlook some things.
@@Fetidaf I did see that video. Dude was way off.
@@Fetidaf Thunderf00t's hate boner for Elon is even more annoying than the love boner of the "Elon can do no wrong" crowd.
I've been a subscriber to Thunderf00t's channels for years, but dropped out after he put up another one last week. All but one of his videos in the past 2-3 months as been an anti Musk rant.
@@Fetidaf
He actually showed a spec sheet detailing the width (thickness) as 400mm (15.7")
.
With 3 barriers, plus about a half thickness either side , that makes the trailer bed about 63" wide(😂!)
Of course, that explains the great efficiency of the Tesla since we can see that the truck is the same width, so the cross section would be tiny!!
Great aero!!
The guys a joke.... gives us a bad name... (I'm in London)
I'll apologize on his behalf.
.
EDIT
It may have been "500mm", but the premise is sound
This is all true, but we are all actually making a mistake by even trying to calculate anything based on what Elon says or shows in a video, as we all know that he is more than capable, and often prefers, flat-out lying in order to attract investments (self-driving, his robot etc.)... Some, or even all of those barriers could be hallowed out, or not even concrete, I would not be surprised at all, so the best that we can do is just wait for that first "guy" that dares to buy so that we can see what he actually gets and then calculate the capability of the truck based on that 😅😂
Recharging these monsters in half an hour will take incredible charging rates. What are the specs on the chargers, and what is the upper limit on the rate these batteries can safely be charged?
Upper limit is 1MW+. Typical car chargers can be 250kW-350kW max charge rate.
this part was so much better than the first one!
So much better than the thunderf00t video.
I love how objective you keep your commentary. What stuck out to me was the "let's not pretend that you snap your fingers and all trucks will go electric." I hear the argument all too often that, "the electrical grid can't handle switching to all EVs," as though the 2035 mandate will magically transform all vehicles to electric. As the need arises, surely the infrastructure will be developed. Gas stations didn't all suddenly appear overnight either.
@Sean Simons This is a great point. I saw recently that automobile adoption went from 10% to 90% in 10 years in the early 1900s, and there was almost zero infrastructure for the oil and gas industry at the time. Can our electrical infrastructure be upgraded in 10 years time to accommodate electric cars and trucks? It most certainly can - @Engineering Explained did a video about that very issue.
Jason already did a video on growth of the electric grid vs future energy needs of passenger EVs. Basically he said the historical growth rate of the grid is already close to enough to accomodate everyone switching to EVs over a reasonable time-frame.
@@adamsmith-bg5wq In the early 1900s they had a lot less constraints. Today there will be more constraints, efficiency, environmental, price of land (eminent domain), bureaucracy, etc. Also, will the energy and carbon cost of the infrastructure accommodations be properly accounted for, ripping up concrete, installing high voltage lines, installing transformers, pouring new concrete? I don't think the increased mechanization efficiencies today will outweigh the extra constraints of today.
He makes the statement that electric tractors will not replace diesel ones on all routes. You then immediately take a wild guess about the grid that you have no support for and use that as an argument.
If every diesel truck in America was converted to electric what percentage of current electrical usage would that be? What about for automobiles?
You don’t seem to understand how much electricity we use as a first world country. Your electric dryer or your stove uses the same amount of energy as it would to charge a car?
Industrial usage dwarf set an aluminum smelter, or a steel mill uses enough to power city. Even in a factory, the lighting and electric forklifts are heavy energy users, and if the factory does welding, another heavy use.
He actually did the work to prove his statement before he made it. You didn’t.
Excellent detective work! Fact-finding was very well done, and I especially loved how you confirmed the size of the Jersey rails using tire sizes from photos.
Interesting.
Thanks for the 2nd Chapter Jason!
All things aside, it's still a cool truck! 🚚
Very interesting to learn number behind this thing.