great points and great open thinking. friendly reminder to all Accuracy always WINS ! Think deep on that statement . Good content BM keep folks thinking and talking and in the end learning.
I think the real problem is that people need to remember bow hunting is not a TAC/3D event, and live animals duck and move sometimes. No setup is fast enough to truly minimize and beat the reaction time of an animal. The only way to do it and increase our accuracy percentage on live animals is to physically close the distance. Maybe we all should have the discipline to wait for closer shots.
I see alot of people disagreeing, but the fact of the matter is is that it your hunt, your set up, so you do what ever the f*ck you want to. If they don't like it then we'll f*ck'em. If it's legal in your state then I don't give a shyt what you use. Everyone entitled to their own opinions and everyone's is going to be different. If they can't accept this then their just flat out dumb. I've seen animals taken from both, and honestly more bad shots that hit back have a lower recovery rate period
Those whitetail specials are insane. I’ve killed a pile of critters with them and they never go farther than 50 yards. Most die within sight. I went down the heavy arrow rabbit hole and I think finding that trajectory you are comfortable with is key. My sweet spot is 270-300fps and that gives me the pin gap that I’m comfortable with. This year I ended up with a 456 grain arrow shooting 300fps. Love the content keep it up!
yup and those people will eventually see the fault in the ashby pseudo-science. I've always liked fixed blades. Had issues on hogs with an untuned bow and went to 600 grain, last year to 500, and this year back to 430. I think broadhead design and sharpness is way more important than arrow weight. There is no need to ever exceed 450 grains for whitetail deer. I think the biggest issue with deer hunting, not over bait, is yardage estimation and arrow drop.
100% Agree with more cutting surface shots over penetration. I've had arrows not pass all the way through and the damage that blades do while the animal is running is tremendous. I've also leaned towards lighter faster arrows for years now. I've had great luck with sevr and swhacker broadheads with a lighter arrow 440 to 480 grains. I'll continue to use this setup until I don't.
Good video and rationalization. Appreciate the vulnerability that comes with admitting youre evolving and open to change. I happen to own a large bear camp and am also constantly gathering information and evolving. This past spring we lost numerous bears to 2 blade Iron Will single bevels. Other 2 blades as well but likely by coincidence Iron Will was the front runner for loss. Bears hit forward or high will likely not die anyways, but the bears hit back were not recovered due to lack of blood trails. Our experiences this year have definitely changed our opinion on broadhead choice. Thx for this!
No matter what you shoot , it’s all about the broadhead , in your case shooting a 70 lb bow your penatration is better than my 57 pound bow . It’s the broadhead that kills stuff not the arrow weight , if your arrow is going sideways at impact you lose penatration , I wish the argument was about razor sharp blades more than how heavy your arrow is ,, I’m shooting 500 grains , 150 grain ( razor sharp) magnus broad-head I feel this is best for me
@gordyduggan403 I agree man. I’ve gone from 420-630gr and I keep landing right at 500 out of an 80 lbs setup. I think the broadhead is definitely the deciding factor
Unfortunately in the heat of the moment this scenario of a less than perfect happen happens regularly. It begs to question whether archery is ethical as a sport to begin with. Would you rather have a wounded animal that lives or one that takes 3 days to die? Either way you never find it.
I have to agree with you on this. I don't know for 100% from the footage whether it was a poorly executed shot or the angle was bad from beginning, but it sure looked like the latter.
This is not relevant to the conversation. Everyone knows that not every shot will be perfect. The conversation is about maximizing probability of success. Starting with proper shot placement is the captain obvious variable. So...thank you, Captian Obvious.
My question is what kind of entrance hole do you get with that over the top deployer? I have always thought the Mega Meat was better than the GR because you get a giant entrance hole.
Though I may not totally agree I appreciate you making this video and sitting down to explain it. You do a great job explaining your point in an engaging way.
I'll be sticking to fixed for elk this year, but I'm shooting 65#, 29" draw, 450 grains. Either Exodus or Trifecta 1-1/4" wide single bevel. I'll have a Sevr 1.75 or Grim Reaper Pro 1-3/8 for a follow-up shot if needed. For Georgia whitetails with same arrow setup I'm going to try the Deadmeat V2s this year. The Grim Reaper Pro did a number on a spike I shot 2 years ago, quartered away and buried in offside shoulder, but looked like a shotgun blast through the whole wound channel, and that was shooting 60# and a 46 yard shot.
I’d be curious to hear more of your opinions on front deploying vs rear deploying broadheads. I’ve always stayed away from front deploying because of the thought that the blades aren’t fully open until you have penetrated at least an inch into the animal. If you don’t get a pass through, you have only a small entry hole which would still result in minimal blood trail? Am I wrong on this?
I bounce back and forth mech vs fixed, dropped many deer with Spitfires. Dropped an elk with a Spitfire. Last year shot Sevrds and only shot one deer… it was a good shot on a doe but not a great blood trail, found her two months later at maybe 125 yards. I have had consistent questionable results with two blade mechs, mostly all dead deer, mostly all mediocre blood trails. Same for a half dozen deer shot with Killzones. I don’t shoot more than one or two deer a year so keep thinking not enough data. .. But maybe three blade mech is the way to go, might also try the new Sevrds with bleeders. So all I have to add here is interested in others thoughts, have others had good blood trails with two blade mechs?
Is it just me or is that a right twist single bevel on a left fletched arrow? If it was just put on the arrow for a prop in the video then I understand.
Everything in life is like this. You get more of one thing it takes away from another. Meet in the middle and it takes from both sides. The delicate balance. Uncle Iroh approved.
@@jaysonsulser6099 just remember that when people make money off you buying the product they're showboating that they are not always honest and choose what they show and tell you.
@@alexan_lynn👍🏽 I’ve done my research. Not my first rodeo. Archery is a deep dark rabbit hole i can’t get out of!😂😢 the ol slick trick standards will also be in the quiver!
I think you are correct with your theory. Been using SEVRs and switched to 540 grain Valkyrie fixed blade. Slugs/ft is a better measurement than Kinetic Energy. I may have to experiment with a heavy SEVR set up now.
We’re all on our own journey in archery and bow hunting. And I appreciate you’re perspective Brandon and you taking the time to talk about your experience. Too many people are on here trying to argue and are quick to criticize your personal experience. Instead of just taking it for what it’s worth and adding it to their own mental database, or choosing not to because it doesn’t fit into their own personal archery puzzle. Anyways, good video and thanks for the info.
Very valuable insight, I’m a stico guy, but I’ve played around with two blade broadheads and completely agree with your ponderings. I like a good efficient multi blade fixed. But if I shot a compound, adorable and reliable, mechanical would probably be my choice. Another thing about multi blade mechanicals, one of the main issues is that sometimes the blades break so having extra blades is helpful.
I like your take, I recommend the pro series 1 3/8" grim reaper. I would think it would be good for elk, which I will be using myself this year after seeing how it performed on whitetails. I love the tip on the pro series, really seems to help with penetration. for what it's worth. Good luck
Let’s say a whitetail body is about 16” wide, a scapula is ~4.5-5” wide - on the other side of the scapula is the chest cavity aka vitals. I would be absolutely gobsmacked if given your bow specs and checking off factors #1 and 2 using those IW heads running a 500g taw+ arrow and you didn’t breach bone at least enough to be lethal. All the animals you talked about where you didn’t recover them, the high hit on that doe, that Canada bear low and back, the other deer low that is all shot placement and falls on YOU, not your equipment. I suggest you study the anatomy of the animals you’re hunting in depth, get more disciplined on what shots you take, and practice more over changing your equipment. If you hit back even in the guts/liver and you’re smart about the track you’ll find that animal but guy you clearly hit muscle/non-vital soft tissue on those deer and the bear TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY
Shot placement is everything. You can use every fixed blade or every mechanical on the market. Every shot and every scenario will be different. Some days the fixed will do better sometimes the mechanical will be better. Again it's shot placement. You said it yourself "when I hit the animal in the ribs " I had the best outcome.
Yeah, we get it. But, maybe you don't. Shot placement is NOT everything because animals move, weather happens, yardage miscalculations happen. Your statement makes it sound like he's just pulling back and shooting willy nilly. Are you suggesting he DOESN'T consider shot placement? If shot placement was "everything" then why not just go out there with a sharp field point and place it thru the heart every time? Brandon is suggesting for the times of unfortunate hits that the probability of killing an animal whilst hitting soft tissue may be higher with the mechs where as the same BH hitting bone may be more fortunate by NOT wounding the animal too terribly. It's all an easy fix though, right? Just stop missing. That's all...
@@OutdoorShellback I think you missed the point or I didn't explain myself correctly. I've been bowhunting for 40yrs now, never gun hunted in my life. This year I just killed my 1204 Whitetail. I'm involved with some culling programs. I've used every arrow and broadhead combo.you can think of. From ultra light to heavy. On Whitetail deer you can potentially have a "miss que " with any set up you have. Find the 1 you like best and go hunting. You're not hunting Buffalo. Shoot straight and expect the unexpected.
Great video of your experiences and point of view! Thank you . We missed ya buddy ! I had similar experience with single bevels no blood trail but then again when I did my job correctly the deer never moved either 🤔 interesting concepts
Brandon I respectfully disagree with the fact that you are blaming the equipment and not yourself for the shot placement errors on the animals that you’ve lost blows my mind
I think you’re misunderstanding to some extent. He knows he’s made some less than stellar shots. His fear is they’re still lethal, but not recovered. His thought is that if he’s not going to recover an animal he’d rather it still be alive than a slow prolonged death.
@@mackstrate6235 This shot on the bear was not only less than stellar. It was a total crap shot on a bear and it made zero sense of the hunter to make that shot at all. And with a mechanical it makes the shot even worse. I would not hesitate to take that shot on a deer or an elk with my setup, but that shot is way to far forward on a bear and at a really crap angle as well on a bear. His thought and for the one that made that shot, should rather be to take better shots instead of risky ones or practice much more and to avoid risking much suffering for the animal. This idea of using a mechanical that will penetrate little and fall out again if/when he takes crap shots to reduce/avoid the suffering of the animal is EXTREMELY flawed. Just do NOT take shots that will result in suffering for the animal and use a setup that will ensure a clean and fast kill when you take the shots you should take.
I 100% agree. He is the one that have made the bad call to take shots he should not have taken and his conclusion seems to be to continue to make those bad shots, but use something that will reduce the suffering of the animals when he makes those bad shots... I have a novel idea for him. How about NOT taking those bad shots he shouldn't take?
I used fixed for 25 years and went to mechanicals about 6 years ago. I had an issue where I took a shot with the fixed and the broadhead seemed to plane out in the wind causing a bad miss. The miss was so bad I thought my site got bumped and was off. Testing after the shot, my site was perfect. I mainly went to the mechanicals for better arrow flight. I have also been in the camp of a 450ish gain arrow that flies flatter is better than a really heavy arrow (+600) as it is easier to be off on your yardage of the shot than hitting bone consistently. Keep testing to see what works out best for you, for me it is approximately 450 grain arrow with a mechanical broadhead. Blood trails with a mechanical are just better and never had issues with penetration with a good shot.
I tried muzzys several years back and actually watched the arrow curve drastically twice! Second one hit the buck in the hams and I was like oh crap but to my surprise it ran only a few yards stood there then did a maybe 20 yard death run and fell over, clipped both arteries pure luck!
Thanks Brandon, great arguments. I love the idea of not wounding an animal more than necessary if a bad shot happens. Appreciate your transparency and honesty about making content as well.
I agree you about the small cutting diameter broadheads and the lack of blood trails. I really like Simmons shark broadheads. They fly great, are easy to sharpen, and have a big cutting diameter.
Good video, im a big fan of mechanical bh's, back 20 years ago I was using a coc 2 blade for a few years with some not so great results, I switched to a mech and wow. I even shot my first elk with one last fall, it worked amazing, it was a grim reaper pro series 1 3/8"
All of what you are saying is why I switched to a hybrid head.. have a look at the xecutioner 125gr. They have given me kinda the best of both worlds and given me wicked nasty wound channels plus pass throughs.. granted I'm shooting a 80lb bow and 500gr arrow.. great vid man!
Hello archer brother !! You rarely shoot videos, I ask you to shoot more often, you are good at it!!!!! Greetings from Russia from Siberia from the shores of Bfikal!!!
Last 3 years for elk I have in my quiver a couple mechanical heads and three fixed . My mechanicals are at lease a two inch cut or better just for the reason you pointed out I had not so good shots and still recovered the animals do to the wound channel was so big
I myself am going to try some mechanicals as well this year, thinking dead meat/megameat or a sevr hybrid. Some of your points make sense but I don’t know if I agree with your point on the bear in the shoulder. I would think less penetration into the should will ultimately lead to deer getting wounded and dying somewhere rather than actually fully recovering
Went down the heavy arrow single bevel rabbit hole as well ended up going back to a 3 blade setup then back to a small expandable with a good moderate weight moderate foc setup and everything I have hit with it has been recovered. I have talk to a lot of dog trackers in different states and one thing I have learned is when shooting at a big buck your better off back a few inches vs being forward a few inches. A buck cannot survive a gut shot, he's hurt he runs 100-150 yards and beds down and watches his back trail. By morning he's gone septic and if he's still alive he can't get up or move around very well. A gut shot often has a lot higher recovery then a shoulder shot if a dog is called out.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I switched from fixed broadheads to mechanicals because I had lost two deer. One being a nice buck. I switched to rage and was successful. It wasn’t till 2 years ago I went back to fixed. I had two rage broadheads open one in the bow and the other from the quiver. It was at that moment I didn’t want to leave things to chance so back to fixed. The 2 deer I lost were all shot placement issues. My point I guess is do what is right for you. Happy hunting!!
I sincerely appreciate all the aspects you bring to the table on this one. I started traditional archery about 3 years ago and in that time I have seen so many deer killed in all of these scenarios with 45--50 lb bows. The absolute best hands down insane blood trails I've seen from 90% of those kills came from Simmons Shark broadheads
The current trend is to forget about the most common (by a mile) bad shot, which is a gut shot. I think admitting to gut shots is just less glamorous than hitting the bone right over the heart area. The area of the guts is just massive compared to the area of heavy bone, so geometric probabilities alone indicate guts are most likely to be hit accidentally. And you're more likely to hit guts because deer walk forward, which would put an arrow on a deer that takes a few steps in the guts. No matter the broadhead, the gut shot almost always eventually kills. But with mechanicals, it will be faster usually and with less suffering and chance of losing the animal. As soon as I saw folks going to these narrow cut, 2 blades for compound hunting, I knew they would be bad in the guts.
@@PoeOutdoors nah, your comment with zero context is the bs. This guy made the most intelligent comment here. Meanwhile, you’re going to tailor your entire setup on hitting the t bone of a deer that only makes up 3% of its anatomy.
@@PoeOutdoors It is obvious that when I wrote "heart area"....not your incorrect quote.....that I meant the heavy bones that people would tend to hit when they go for the vital V, heart, you know the drill. When you disagree with someone, it is best to address what anyone with a 100 IQ would know was their obvious intention (it is called steel manning....you should look it up and practice it). I obviously know that right over the heart is mostly ribs. I've ran into you at archerytalk, and I'm pretty sure I have you blocked there because of your argumentation style. What you are doing here is a sophistry trick. You look at a whole argument that goes against your beliefs and so you don't like it and are internally motivated to take it out, pick one thing that you can cast aspersion on, and then instead of totally addressing the whole thing...you say something like "this is all BS....I mean, just look at this one thing I found to point out! I could go on, but I feel it is unnecessary at this point"
@@progradepainting3755meanwhile his setup will handle the rest of the shots he'll make on deer. While you keep shooting your forked horns and everything else in the a$$ n guts at 70 yards like a 💩bag. Arizona at its best 🙌lol
@@dustinhoffman9843 look dude, this isn’t the place for you to project your fantasies about where you want your boyfriend to make his shot placement on you, ok?
I'm switching back to the Sevr Hybrid this year. I'm still going to carry a few Kudu points, but my primary broadhead will be the Sevr. Lusk testing poves they are capable. The kills I've had with mechanicals have been easy to track and under 40yds.
I agree that its situational which works better. For me, I have lost deer with mechanicals due to deflection from small limbs that caused the mechanical to open. I hunt in theick cover in Maine with a low deer population. I also had a full passthrough with an iron will wide and clipped the top of a lung and we never recovered that deer, even after 3 miles and a tracking dog. I have said both; i should have had a mechnaical and I should have used a fixed blade. I guess were always learning.
If my memory serves me correctly, we as bowhunters are trying to kill animals. This is done by causing trauma to the muscle, bone, organs, connective tissue, blood supply, anything that gets in the way. If I’m understanding your logic, you would rather bounce an arrow off a bone with an inferior arrow system than get in deep and kill it. I had to rewatch to make sure I didn’t misunderstand you. Maybe you’re doing parody videos now? You have built a rep for being a normal guy sharing thoughts and info and I appreciate that, but there are newbies who take everything guys like you say as law and run with it. I pray to God not one bowhunter watches this and adopts this nonsense. It’s almost as dumb as Dudley saying the arrow should stay in the animal so it is aware of the arrow and runs faster causing death quicker. What in the world has happened to the bowhunting community?
When he made the statement about bounce off and come out, it blew my mind. I personally think that is a very poor argument. However I shoot both and I do agree with him on the cutting surface forgiveness. But man that’s a bold statement to say you want it to hit and come out… I had to rewatch it several times to make sure I heard what I thought I did lol
I’m not trying to argue with anybody. I’m just sitting a fact he needs to take ownership for making bad shots and not blaming equipment. I know just like anybody else has lost an animal since I live in Alaska. I lost a 65 inch moose. I blame myself, not the equipment.
@@tycolee4306 this statement is played out. Of course bad shots happen, but a mechanical is more forgiving on a bad shot than a fixed is. This is bow hunting, bad shots happen. If you’re going to sit around punching yourself in the head over it happening, go pick up a rifle, or just don’t hunt.
This feels like planning to fail. I really like your take on stuff, I was just surprised by this take. Looking forward to your continued updates with more experiences! Out of curiosity, did you shoot the doe you spoke of from the ground, or a tree?
You hit the central point - the bow/arrow/shooter combination has to be tuned. A shooter cannot begin from any other point and expect optimal results. I shoot a fixed blade because I place a higher value on the maxim "that anything mechanical can fail" than I do "a better blood trail". Thank you for sharing your thought process and rationale for your choices. Good luck this fall.
Cool video i have had great success wt Magnus stinger buzz cut broadheads wt bleeders. But also wt Rage hypodermic no collar. My mathews is tuned and i pull 78# 28.5 mods 430 grain Easton axis 5mm arrows. And get pass throughs. Just food for thought.
I feel like your argument is: On a bad shot, a non kill shot, you would rather run an expandable because it would have a better chance of failing to cause more penetration and possibly give the animal a better chance at survival. My thought is: Every bad shot is going to give you such different results. I have a feeling that the failure rate and downsides to a mechanical on everyday shots would outweigh the rarer result of a bad shot like the bear you showed a video of. Or just go right down the middle and shoot a large fixed 3 blade.
With mechanicals being a "non-popular" option nowadays, it's refreshing to see someone's perspective on mechanicals that came from the heavy arrow camp. I'm interested in both options but since I only shoot 60 pounds that kind of only leaves me with light and fast. Very informative, thanks man.
I shot my buck last yr with a grim reaper. I use them a lot. That buck was at 35 yards, I thought facing away, but he was actually facing more to. The arrow went in great and exited through the gut. I saw the gut hanging out the exit. He ran 70 yards, stopped, stood there not feeling well and eventually fell over. We tracked him in the dark and had almost NO blood. I feel if you accidentally hit a deer in the gut it is more likely to expire quicker than a smaller fixed blade. I use a 1 3/4” grim reaper because I’ve had the 2” blades break off in the ribs. Those blades are just so long they’re like twigs. My bow can shoot either broadheads accurately at 40yards. I’ve got both fixed and grim reaper but I like the grim reaper. I’m more worried about a gut shot than a shoulder shot.
I shoot 13/8 pro grim reaper and cause of injuries can only shoot mid 50 pounds with 360 grain arrow. Shot 3 deer last season arrow stayed in all three. Not one of them made it more than 20 yards with great blood. Happy hunting and God bless
I have to say this is the best argument for mechanicals I’ve ever heard. I totally disagree but respect your opinion and delivery of said opinion. Bad shots are going to happen and you can plan for them but you’re always giving something up. Penetration or size of the hole. Just have to pick one and stand by it and accept the outcome.
If an arrow doesn’t go all the way threw you will get a better blood trail because the arrow is keeping all the holes in line. The hole in the hide the hole threw the ribs and lungs.
I'm constantly having this conversation in my head because I have a setup that shoots fixed blade broadheads really well. Like you, though, I've noticed that the blood trails aren't great. I literally had to find a deer by smell a couple years ago, but I use the fixed blades over and over. On the flip side, every deer I've shot with a mechanical (first rages and then Sevrs) has left an absolulte horror show of blood. The Rages were one and done, and I switched to Sevrs because I had a rage blade break off in a Buck (Still recovered the buck, but I don't like having to look for a razor in my meat). The Sevrs have been reusable with the occational blade swap and shoot really well. I bought some Grim Reaper whitetail specails and the one I was using for practice completely fell apart after only four shots into foam, so that head is going to be relegated to turkey duty (which I think it will be excellent for). I don't trust it's structural integrity on a deer rib, let alone anything harder. I really like the simplicity of the Sevrs an the way they pivot around bone. I think it puts them in contention as one of the best broadheads out there, as it sidesteps (literally) the "bone breaking" issue. I also think a low profile mechanical is just more likely to hit where you are aiming in the wild. They are more forgiving off the shot and less susceptible to environmental factors, so I too am thinking of switching back.
With your Whitetail Special kills, do you feel like the broadhead has made up for a less than stellar hit on an animal; or were all of the kills text book shots?
One in a doe was high. The rest were good. High shot in the doe was still double lung but I credit the size of the cut of the broadhead to actually getting lung
Ive had too many not open. Thats my experience. I use 3 blade fixed now. Dont have blood trail problems. FOC for pass thru. But thats where im comfortable
Dangit, I've returned to archery after 13 years..... a lot has changed in that time. Especially with archery laws in oregon. I have been waffling forever over the fixed blades I like and going to mechanicals. And I'm open as I'm basically brand new again. This made me start thinking again... and season is a month and a half away.... thanks for that, honestly. Time to build my own opinion.
Brandon, sincere question here… why not get the best of both worlds with a huge fixed blade? Something like Tooth of the Arrow 4 blade XL? Total cut of 2-3/8” and built like a tank. The one drawback or challenge with something like that is tuning, and you’re clearly already committed to achieving perfect arrow flight with whatever head you shoot. Seems like a perfect fit for you
Many game farms in Zimbabwe and South Africa will not allow the use of mechanical broadheads on tougher &/or heavier boned game due to too many failures to deploy properly, penetrate deeply enough or break or a combination of these problems.
@@colinmitchell3213 technology has came a long ways as far as broadheads go. It will take the laws sometime to catch up. I am speaking from my experience breaking bones on large North American game. We don’t have Cape buffalo here. But I’ve broke femurs and shoulders on several elk with great success. But I’m also shooting a 84lb speed bow which definitely helps.
“anecdotal”. BMac would say. We’ll figure it out for ourselves. each hunter/archer has their own shooting abilities, Hunting abilities and how they handle perceived pressure Which will influence their hunting set ups.
You can talk until you’re blue in the face. I’ll never go back to mechanicals again. Most are made out of China $.99 steel one and done usually and I was always taught at a young age. 2 holes are always better than one no matter how big I suspect, you’ll give us a go for a while and you’ll be back to a fix blade someday😊
Been using 150 grain mechanicals for years now, almost always pass throughs, last year wondered why it didn’t until I went to gut him here the 150 grain Rage went through and destroyed the opposite upper leg bone on a well over 230 pound dressed buck. Never seen anything like it!
I shot a 80lbs pa doe last yr with whitetail special it went in right behind front shoulder defected off rib and exited out hind quarter of the same side it entered i switched to beast the next hunt and 9 deer later have not had 1 deflection or non passthru since dont no the science behind it but something in the blades having tentation and being able to move ard bone is a huge benefit on deflection witch has been my biggest issue with most mechanicals
Mechanicals are great if you never have to take a steep angle or 1/4 away shot. If you can get a clean broadside they rarely fail. I am sticking with a fixed blade montec because the less things I have to worry about in the moment lining up a shot the better.
I guided on bears for a few years and I can tell you I strongly disliked hunters using mechanicals especially from a stand. More often than not mechanicals did not punch through and make a second hole and when you are hunting from a tree or elevated stand you only get one high entry wound and their fur especially in later season when their fur is thick just soaks up the blood and you lose all of the benefit of the mechanical. I just saw more pass throughs with fixed blades and Ive only hunted myself fixed blades and its way better to have two holes especially a lower hole coming out of the lower rib cage for a good blood trail than just one higher shot middle or up higher from stand angle. A lot of time tree stand hunters on bears will put the arrow too high on the rib cage and just pin that arrow right under and it will get next to no penetration but it nicks a lung or liver and you have a bear that you dont recover but it definitely dies. There are ways you can make sure you get two holes with a mechanical and can have a messy blood trail - 1. Shoot broadside. Middle middle slightly front but not front like a deer. Do not shoot directly behind the crease. Its behind the crease and then some... its a bad way to look at a bears vitals. 2. NEVER take a shot on a bear unless the front paws are in the same position forward or that the front leg that is closest to the shooter is farther forward than the front leg farthest. 3. Pay attention to a curling bear. A bear that presents broadside but is stepping with the leg farthest away ahead and curls towards you. That shot looks great but like the bear on this video it was a text book DO NOT SHOOT SITUATION because you not only get the shoulder turning blocking the vitals but the bear is tucking its vitals farther back, the fur hangs forward and the shoulder plunges forward and the largest part of the rib cage that is going to eat that arrow presents itself. 4. Hunt from the ground if you can. Tree stand hunters on bears, especially inexperienced ones have a tendency to place their arrows right on the shoulder blade or shoot too high and get deflections from fur and the way the rib cage bends from the spine high or they shoot too low and catch hide or a deflection off the sternum. I have seen some devastating mechanical broadhead shots until the areas we were guiding banned mechanicals but I would say we recovered bad shots with fixed more than we recovered bad shots with mechanicals and do not lie to yourself thinking the bear survived. Especially in a very "bear density" area like Alaska or BC .
I think that both have their place. If your somebody that is very discipline and will only take broad side and quartering away shots them mechanicals are a great tool. If your someone like myself that isn’t afraid to take a quartering too shot at close range then heavy single bevel is the way to go. No matter what you have to practice and toon your bow and arrows. They are both tool that work. They just work different.
Honestly I think people are just taking too far of shots, on deer especially. Until arrows break the sound barrier 40 is just too far. I don’t like mechanicals but it’s not their fault that guy took a bad shot. Every setup has its limitations, just know what yours are and make sure it flies straight
That’s clown talk. Come out to Arizona, where real bow hunters live. I just did a job for a man in his late 50’s who has a wall lined, with a lifetime of bull elk in the 350 plus range, and he took most of those elk beyond 60 yards with a 356 grain arrow, and an old school thunderhead. Anyone who is truly successful is just laughing at the dumb argument you guys pose. The biggest elk this guy killed was at 77 yards with the setup I just mentioned. And you can’t kill a whitetail at 29-30 yards with your ridiculously heavy arrow? Lol
@@progradepainting3755 my arrow is like 450. Your binary brain is fried. Just because I like fixed doesn’t mean I’m dead set on heavy. That old duffer showed you all his wins but what about his losses? I wasn’t talking about elk was I? Brandon just told a story of a doe moving, what about when it’s a buck that’s thicker and faster? Run along, you’re trying to argue with a ghost
@@bigz5262 yeah? And your autistic brain is seized up because you think somehow you can make bowhunting a 100% guaranteed kill every time, chasing your delusions that’s there’s this perfect way to do it. It doesn’t work that way. Bowhunting is imperfect by its very nature. It’s a primitive process. So yeah, everyone has missed. Yet, how many times do you think you can hunt 350 plus class bull elk on public land in a lifetime? For most people, that’s maybe 4-5 times, if they’re insanely dedicated and lucky. And yet, this guy has easily harvested 7 with a bow, probably more. And he’s killing an animal over twice the size of an eastern whitetail, with an arrow that weighs 100 grains less than yours, and still getting pass throughs! When do you wake up and say “damn, I must be missing something here?” You back east hunters are really the only ones complaining about your arrow weights, how much you hate mechanicals, and whining about pass throughs. None of you talk about the importance of things like, how well tuned your bow is, your sight access, your angle compensation, the quality of your range finder, precision on decline AND inclined shots, your arrow flight, and shot placement, none of the things that actually matter. My first pin starts at 30 yards here Arizona.
@@progradepainting3755 you’re so desperate to get words out you’re arguing with things I never said. I’m not shutting down, some people aren’t worth engaging with.
I’m of the opposite Camp… I’ve never lost a deer from a fixed blade and keeping blood IN the deer has caused my deer to go down MUCH faster. It’s the pulmonary trauma caused by them filling up. But I have had deer hit with a mechanical run for upwards of a mile before going down… Blood trails are good but a long blood trail is a lot harder to follow, then a quick death in my opinion. All that being said… It’s a lot easier to track a deer in Kansas prairie than it is in the forest of Tennessee, so I understand brother.
I’m also genuinely curious… do your deer go WAY farther with a heart shot than they do with a good well placed double lung? I’ve seen a buck go 200-300+ yards with a hole in his heart…and had a fixed blade double mid-lung, farther back, and watched them step 10-20yds, stop, and get weak legs and topple over….
@poppasmurf15 what you are describing is a hemothorax but air gets in as well and it’s called a hemo-pneumo (I’ve been an ED trauma, and thoracic surgery nurse a long time). When blood or air fills up the thoracic cavity, death happens much faster than if it escapes, which is why we put chest tubes in to get it out. You made a great observation noticing that
I would like to see arrow companies make lighter gpi arrows and still be strong. For example a 250 spine arrow around 5-6 gpi with mfjj’s insert and collar. Taw without head be around 250gr with a solid 3 blade at 1.5 cut around 150-200 gr
I like it…Back to shooting my Original Rocket Steelhead 100’s, they just kill things! Also have the Grim Reaper Fatal Steel…I will still have my G5 Strikers and all shoot lights out, but like the results of the Mechanicals…Good for you! 👊🏻 Also, I feel the more compact they are, the better they are, but that’s JMO and performance…
I don’t care what equipment people use. For me, it boils down to the following: Be as proficient as possible with your gear and be respectful of the animal you’re shooting at. It’s a privilege to rule over God’s creatures. Be good stewards out there.
I am a professional hunter in Africa, we specialize in guiding bow hunters and these are my observations. Nothing trumps shot placement. If your shot is placed to penetrate the vitals it does not really matter if you are shooting a mechanical or fixed blade broad head, both result in a clean kill. Unfortunately string jumping and ducking to the shot is a very real possibility, this often results in shots that enter high and further back than intended, in which case a bigger bladed mechanical may just save the day by causing more damage. The idea that you can shoot a fixed blade on a quartering on shot , punch through the shoulder and still reach the vitals is not really helpful advice. This is normally what the proponents of heavy arrows and fixed blade broad heads recommend. If you hit a big bone square on you are not going to get much penetration except if you are shooting smaller animals (under 180 lbs) and have sufficiently high draw weight and arrow mass. Pick your shots carefully, wait for the animals to be calm and relaxed and put your arrow through the vitals. In Africa you pay for wounded animals that are not recovered. Brandon thanks for the great content you create.
I read through a ton of these comments, and i mean a ton. And not once did I see anyone mention the sharpness factor. I hunt traditional and use two blades all the time. They have to be razor sharp, otherwise they will push tissue, organs, etc. more than cut. Imagine trying to stab a steak with a butter knife. As far as mechanicals, I've never shot them, even when I was compound hunting, but I've heard too many stories of them failing to agree with your points. But you do you. Whatever we do or however we hunt, remember... Shot placement is king. My two blades might not leave a great blood trail but i don't need it when I watch them go down. Good luck to all this season.
great points and great open thinking. friendly reminder to all Accuracy always WINS ! Think deep on that statement . Good content BM keep folks thinking and talking and in the end learning.
i personally im not a fan of the style of mechanical that has to fold back over itself. for several reasons
@@T-boneoutdoors always good to hear the legendary T-Bones 2 cents…
@@T-boneoutdoors your a legand brother. Much respect
I think the real problem is that people need to remember bow hunting is not a TAC/3D event, and live animals duck and move sometimes. No setup is fast enough to truly minimize and beat the reaction time of an animal. The only way to do it and increase our accuracy percentage on live animals is to physically close the distance. Maybe we all should have the discipline to wait for closer shots.
@@T-boneoutdoors hey Sir.. any chance we could hear what your top 3 mechanical BH choices would be?
I see alot of people disagreeing, but the fact of the matter is is that it your hunt, your set up, so you do what ever the f*ck you want to. If they don't like it then we'll f*ck'em.
If it's legal in your state then I don't give a shyt what you use. Everyone entitled to their own opinions and everyone's is going to be different. If they can't accept this then their just flat out dumb. I've seen animals taken from both, and honestly more bad shots that hit back have a lower recovery rate period
@@tylersweeney22 not when you have a 2” cut from a mech head.
@@progradepainting3755 so you just figure as long as you hit the deer somewhere you're good huh lol. You're a poster child for the mentally impaired
1:57 nailed it 100% on the tuned properly stuff, no matter what broadhead someone is shooting.
Those whitetail specials are insane. I’ve killed a pile of critters with them and they never go farther than 50 yards. Most die within sight. I went down the heavy arrow rabbit hole and I think finding that trajectory you are comfortable with is key. My sweet spot is 270-300fps and that gives me the pin gap that I’m comfortable with. This year I ended up with a 456 grain arrow shooting 300fps. Love the content keep it up!
A lot of people drank the kool-aid.
yup and those people will eventually see the fault in the ashby pseudo-science. I've always liked fixed blades. Had issues on hogs with an untuned bow and went to 600 grain, last year to 500, and this year back to 430. I think broadhead design and sharpness is way more important than arrow weight. There is no need to ever exceed 450 grains for whitetail deer. I think the biggest issue with deer hunting, not over bait, is yardage estimation and arrow drop.
Love my Grim Reapers. Good video bro !
100% Agree with more cutting surface shots over penetration. I've had arrows not pass all the way through and the damage that blades do while the animal is running is tremendous. I've also leaned towards lighter faster arrows for years now. I've had great luck with sevr and swhacker broadheads with a lighter arrow 440 to 480 grains. I'll continue to use this setup until I don't.
Good video and rationalization. Appreciate the vulnerability that comes with admitting youre evolving and open to change.
I happen to own a large bear camp and am also constantly gathering information and evolving. This past spring we lost numerous bears to 2 blade Iron Will single bevels. Other 2 blades as well but likely by coincidence Iron Will was the front runner for loss.
Bears hit forward or high will likely not die anyways, but the bears hit back were not recovered due to lack of blood trails. Our experiences this year have definitely changed our opinion on broadhead choice.
Thx for this!
They won't die with a mechanical either....
@@michaelficarro2591the ones hit back did, they just couldn’t find them due to lack of blood.
If tracking dogs are legal in your state to aide with recovery of game animals I would get you some hounds trained
No matter what you shoot , it’s all about the broadhead , in your case shooting a 70 lb bow your penatration is better than my 57 pound bow . It’s the broadhead that kills stuff not the arrow weight , if your arrow is going sideways at impact you lose penatration , I wish the argument was about razor sharp blades more than how heavy your arrow is ,, I’m shooting 500 grains , 150 grain ( razor sharp) magnus broad-head I feel this is best for me
I think people like talking about weight because it doesn’t take any effort to change. Broadhead tuning and sharpening take time
@gordyduggan403 I agree man. I’ve gone from 420-630gr and I keep landing right at 500 out of an 80 lbs setup. I think the broadhead is definitely the deciding factor
Is it the broadheads fault...? Or the fact the hunter shot that bear in the NECK on a low odds shot?
Unfortunately in the heat of the moment this scenario of a less than perfect happen happens regularly. It begs to question whether archery is ethical as a sport to begin with. Would you rather have a wounded animal that lives or one that takes 3 days to die? Either way you never find it.
I have to agree with you on this. I don't know for 100% from the footage whether it was a poorly executed shot or the angle was bad from beginning, but it sure looked like the latter.
This is not relevant to the conversation. Everyone knows that not every shot will be perfect. The conversation is about maximizing probability of success. Starting with proper shot placement is the captain obvious variable. So...thank you, Captian Obvious.
@@mackstrate6235 The logical end of this argument is that hunting in general is unethical. It isn't.
Cry me a river…
My question is what kind of entrance hole do you get with that over the top deployer? I have always thought the Mega Meat was better than the GR because you get a giant entrance hole.
Though I may not totally agree I appreciate you making this video and sitting down to explain it. You do a great job explaining your point in an engaging way.
Appreciate it. I’ll do better going in depth on Thursday
@@brandonmcdonald6121 seconded.
I'll be sticking to fixed for elk this year, but I'm shooting 65#, 29" draw, 450 grains. Either Exodus or Trifecta 1-1/4" wide single bevel. I'll have a Sevr 1.75 or Grim Reaper Pro 1-3/8 for a follow-up shot if needed. For Georgia whitetails with same arrow setup I'm going to try the Deadmeat V2s this year. The Grim Reaper Pro did a number on a spike I shot 2 years ago, quartered away and buried in offside shoulder, but looked like a shotgun blast through the whole wound channel, and that was shooting 60# and a 46 yard shot.
I’d be curious to hear more of your opinions on front deploying vs rear deploying broadheads. I’ve always stayed away from front deploying because of the thought that the blades aren’t fully open until you have penetrated at least an inch into the animal. If you don’t get a pass through, you have only a small entry hole which would still result in minimal blood trail? Am I wrong on this?
I’ve gone down the same heavy arrow rabbit hole and ended up with the same thought process.
I bounce back and forth mech vs fixed, dropped many deer with Spitfires. Dropped an elk with a Spitfire. Last year shot Sevrds and only shot one deer… it was a good shot on a doe but not a great blood trail, found her two months later at maybe 125 yards. I have had consistent questionable results with two blade mechs, mostly all dead deer, mostly all mediocre blood trails. Same for a half dozen deer shot with Killzones. I don’t shoot more than one or two deer a year so keep thinking not enough data. .. But maybe three blade mech is the way to go, might also try the new Sevrds with bleeders. So all I have to add here is interested in others thoughts, have others had good blood trails with two blade mechs?
Is it just me or is that a right twist single bevel on a left fletched arrow? If it was just put on the arrow for a prop in the video then I understand.
Everything in life is like this. You get more of one thing it takes away from another. Meet in the middle and it takes from both sides. The delicate balance. Uncle Iroh approved.
Curious to see your results in your upcoming hunts
So can i have all your fixed blades?
I carry 3 different broad heads in my quiver 4 fixed and 2 mechanical so I can choose what head is going to be best in any specific situation.
I’m going beast broadheads this year for elk and deer !
But I’m also running a relatively heavy arrow and shooting #75 draw
doing the same, the water buffalo vid that bowmar posted convinced me they will be fine on an elk!
@@jaysonsulser6099 just remember that when people make money off you buying the product they're showboating that they are not always honest and choose what they show and tell you.
@@alexan_lynn👍🏽 I’ve done my research. Not my first rodeo. Archery is a deep dark rabbit hole i can’t get out of!😂😢 the ol slick trick standards will also be in the quiver!
is it at all possible to tune so you can carry both fixed and mechanical?
I think you are correct with your theory. Been using SEVRs and switched to 540 grain Valkyrie fixed blade. Slugs/ft is a better measurement than Kinetic Energy.
I may have to experiment with a heavy SEVR set up now.
SEVR is a pretty good design but they are extremely dull out of the pack IMO
I've asked so many people about 2 blade cutting direction either horizontally or vertically. No one has talked about it. Thanks!
We’re all on our own journey in archery and bow hunting. And I appreciate you’re perspective Brandon and you taking the time to talk about your experience. Too many people are on here trying to argue and are quick to criticize your personal experience. Instead of just taking it for what it’s worth and adding it to their own mental database, or choosing not to because it doesn’t fit into their own personal archery puzzle. Anyways, good video and thanks for the info.
Very valuable insight, I’m a stico guy, but I’ve played around with two blade broadheads and completely agree with your ponderings. I like a good efficient multi blade fixed. But if I shot a compound, adorable and reliable, mechanical would probably be my choice. Another thing about multi blade mechanicals, one of the main issues is that sometimes the blades break so having extra blades is helpful.
I like your take, I recommend the pro series 1 3/8" grim reaper. I would think it would be good for elk, which I will be using myself this year after seeing how it performed on whitetails. I love the tip on the pro series, really seems to help with penetration. for what it's worth. Good luck
Let’s say a whitetail body is about 16” wide, a scapula is ~4.5-5” wide - on the other side of the scapula is the chest cavity aka vitals. I would be absolutely gobsmacked if given your bow specs and checking off factors #1 and 2 using those IW heads running a 500g taw+ arrow and you didn’t breach bone at least enough to be lethal. All the animals you talked about where you didn’t recover them, the high hit on that doe, that Canada bear low and back, the other deer low that is all shot placement and falls on YOU, not your equipment. I suggest you study the anatomy of the animals you’re hunting in depth, get more disciplined on what shots you take, and practice more over changing your equipment. If you hit back even in the guts/liver and you’re smart about the track you’ll find that animal but guy you clearly hit muscle/non-vital soft tissue on those deer and the bear TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY
Nice to see you back. When can I order a black 'Mere Mortal Archery' t-shirt? 🤘
Shot placement is everything. You can use every fixed blade or every mechanical on the market. Every shot and every scenario will be different. Some days the fixed will do better sometimes the mechanical will be better. Again it's shot placement. You said it yourself "when I hit the animal in the ribs " I had the best outcome.
Yeah, we get it. But, maybe you don't. Shot placement is NOT everything because animals move, weather happens, yardage miscalculations happen. Your statement makes it sound like he's just pulling back and shooting willy nilly. Are you suggesting he DOESN'T consider shot placement? If shot placement was "everything" then why not just go out there with a sharp field point and place it thru the heart every time? Brandon is suggesting for the times of unfortunate hits that the probability of killing an animal whilst hitting soft tissue may be higher with the mechs where as the same BH hitting bone may be more fortunate by NOT wounding the animal too terribly.
It's all an easy fix though, right? Just stop missing. That's all...
@@OutdoorShellback I think you missed the point or I didn't explain myself correctly. I've been bowhunting for 40yrs now, never gun hunted in my life. This year I just killed my 1204 Whitetail. I'm involved with some culling programs. I've used every arrow and broadhead combo.you can think of. From ultra light to heavy. On Whitetail deer you can potentially have a "miss que " with any set up you have. Find the 1 you like best and go hunting. You're not hunting Buffalo. Shoot straight and expect the unexpected.
Great video of your experiences and point of view! Thank you . We missed ya buddy ! I had similar experience with single bevels no blood trail but then again when I did my job correctly the deer never moved either 🤔 interesting concepts
Brandon I respectfully disagree with the fact that you are blaming the equipment and not yourself for the shot placement errors on the animals that you’ve lost blows my mind
I think you’re misunderstanding to some extent. He knows he’s made some less than stellar shots. His fear is they’re still lethal, but not recovered. His thought is that if he’s not going to recover an animal he’d rather it still be alive than a slow prolonged death.
Bad shots can happen. I ve made marginal shots that should have died but didn't. I want the most damage in any shot
@@mackstrate6235
This shot on the bear was not only less than stellar.
It was a total crap shot on a bear and it made zero sense of the hunter to make that shot at all.
And with a mechanical it makes the shot even worse.
I would not hesitate to take that shot on a deer or an elk with my setup, but that shot is way to far forward on a bear and at a really crap angle as well on a bear.
His thought and for the one that made that shot, should rather be to take better shots instead of risky ones or practice much more and to avoid risking much suffering for the animal.
This idea of using a mechanical that will penetrate little and fall out again if/when he takes crap shots to reduce/avoid the suffering of the animal is EXTREMELY flawed.
Just do NOT take shots that will result in suffering for the animal and use a setup that will ensure a clean and fast kill when you take the shots you should take.
I 100% agree.
He is the one that have made the bad call to take shots he should not have taken and his conclusion seems to be to continue to make those bad shots, but use something that will reduce the suffering of the animals when he makes those bad shots...
I have a novel idea for him.
How about NOT taking those bad shots he shouldn't take?
@@The_Judge300 I had a brain fart on a 12 yard broadside. Doesn't have to be risky. Anyone that says they've never made a bad shot is a liar
I used fixed for 25 years and went to mechanicals about 6 years ago. I had an issue where I took a shot with the fixed and the broadhead seemed to plane out in the wind causing a bad miss. The miss was so bad I thought my site got bumped and was off. Testing after the shot, my site was perfect. I mainly went to the mechanicals for better arrow flight. I have also been in the camp of a 450ish gain arrow that flies flatter is better than a really heavy arrow (+600) as it is easier to be off on your yardage of the shot than hitting bone consistently. Keep testing to see what works out best for you, for me it is approximately 450 grain arrow with a mechanical broadhead. Blood trails with a mechanical are just better and never had issues with penetration with a good shot.
I tried muzzys several years back and actually watched the arrow curve drastically twice! Second one hit the buck in the hams and I was like oh crap but to my surprise it ran only a few yards stood there then did a maybe 20 yard death run and fell over, clipped both arteries pure luck!
Thanks Brandon, great arguments. I love the idea of not wounding an animal more than necessary if a bad shot happens. Appreciate your transparency and honesty about making content as well.
Grim reaper mini mags and micro pro series is all I use they fly like darts 🩸 🎯
I would not take the 40 yard shot if the animal moving is an issue. Bow hunting is not a guessing game. Did mfjj pay you to say this?
I agree you about the small cutting diameter broadheads and the lack of blood trails. I really like Simmons shark broadheads. They fly great, are easy to sharpen, and have a big cutting diameter.
Good video, im a big fan of mechanical bh's, back 20 years ago I was using a coc 2 blade for a few years with some not so great results, I switched to a mech and wow. I even shot my first elk with one last fall, it worked amazing, it was a grim reaper pro series 1 3/8"
I’m planning on using Sevrs this year. Likely adding some of those new hybrids!
The new hybrids look legit
All of what you are saying is why I switched to a hybrid head.. have a look at the xecutioner 125gr. They have given me kinda the best of both worlds and given me wicked nasty wound channels plus pass throughs.. granted I'm shooting a 80lb bow and 500gr arrow.. great vid man!
Hello archer brother !! You rarely shoot videos, I ask you to shoot more often, you are good at it!!!!! Greetings from Russia from Siberia from the shores of Bfikal!!!
Wow!! Hello from the US! Stay well.
Last 3 years for elk I have in my quiver a couple mechanical heads and three fixed . My mechanicals are at lease a two inch cut or better just for the reason you pointed out I had not so good shots and still recovered the animals do to the wound channel was so big
Textbook looking for justification.
I myself am going to try some mechanicals as well this year, thinking dead meat/megameat or a sevr hybrid. Some of your points make sense but I don’t know if I agree with your point on the bear in the shoulder. I would think less penetration into the should will ultimately lead to deer getting wounded and dying somewhere rather than actually fully recovering
Right there with ya. I know there are downsides to mechanicals. But the up side has been so great I won’t change.
Went down the heavy arrow single bevel rabbit hole as well ended up going back to a 3 blade setup then back to a small expandable with a good moderate weight moderate foc setup and everything I have hit with it has been recovered. I have talk to a lot of dog trackers in different states and one thing I have learned is when shooting at a big buck your better off back a few inches vs being forward a few inches. A buck cannot survive a gut shot, he's hurt he runs 100-150 yards and beds down and watches his back trail. By morning he's gone septic and if he's still alive he can't get up or move around very well. A gut shot often has a lot higher recovery then a shoulder shot if a dog is called out.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I switched from fixed broadheads to mechanicals because I had lost two deer. One being a nice buck. I switched to rage and was successful. It wasn’t till 2 years ago I went back to fixed. I had two rage broadheads open one in the bow and the other from the quiver. It was at that moment I didn’t want to leave things to chance so back to fixed. The 2 deer I lost were all shot placement issues. My point I guess is do what is right for you. Happy hunting!!
Glad to see you back.
Briefly popping in 😀
I sincerely appreciate all the aspects you bring to the table on this one. I started traditional archery about 3 years ago and in that time I have seen so many deer killed in all of these scenarios with 45--50 lb bows. The absolute best hands down insane blood trails I've seen from 90% of those kills came from Simmons Shark broadheads
I don’t even think I’ve heard of those. Interesting. I’ll have to google
@@brandonmcdonald6121pretty nasty wound channels for sure
Interesting video. I’m in the middle of testing new broadheads myself, and not sure what I’m going to use for my elk hunt this year 🤷🏻♂️
QAD Exodus
@@bowdude33 need to check those out, heard nothing but good things!
The current trend is to forget about the most common (by a mile) bad shot, which is a gut shot. I think admitting to gut shots is just less glamorous than hitting the bone right over the heart area. The area of the guts is just massive compared to the area of heavy bone, so geometric probabilities alone indicate guts are most likely to be hit accidentally. And you're more likely to hit guts because deer walk forward, which would put an arrow on a deer that takes a few steps in the guts.
No matter the broadhead, the gut shot almost always eventually kills. But with mechanicals, it will be faster usually and with less suffering and chance of losing the animal. As soon as I saw folks going to these narrow cut, 2 blades for compound hunting, I knew they would be bad in the guts.
There is so much BS in this comment I’m not sure where to begin. I guess we could start by learning which bone is right over the heart.
@@PoeOutdoors nah, your comment with zero context is the bs. This guy made the most intelligent comment here. Meanwhile, you’re going to tailor your entire setup on hitting the t bone of a deer that only makes up 3% of its anatomy.
@@PoeOutdoors It is obvious that when I wrote "heart area"....not your incorrect quote.....that I meant the heavy bones that people would tend to hit when they go for the vital V, heart, you know the drill. When you disagree with someone, it is best to address what anyone with a 100 IQ would know was their obvious intention (it is called steel manning....you should look it up and practice it). I obviously know that right over the heart is mostly ribs. I've ran into you at archerytalk, and I'm pretty sure I have you blocked there because of your argumentation style. What you are doing here is a sophistry trick. You look at a whole argument that goes against your beliefs and so you don't like it and are internally motivated to take it out, pick one thing that you can cast aspersion on, and then instead of totally addressing the whole thing...you say something like "this is all BS....I mean, just look at this one thing I found to point out! I could go on, but I feel it is unnecessary at this point"
@@progradepainting3755meanwhile his setup will handle the rest of the shots he'll make on deer. While you keep shooting your forked horns and everything else in the a$$ n guts at 70 yards like a 💩bag. Arizona at its best 🙌lol
@@dustinhoffman9843 look dude, this isn’t the place for you to project your fantasies about where you want your boyfriend to make his shot placement on you, ok?
Great meeting you on your way through Iowa at the shop in Iowa city.
I'm switching back to the Sevr Hybrid this year. I'm still going to carry a few Kudu points, but my primary broadhead will be the Sevr. Lusk testing poves they are capable. The kills I've had with mechanicals have been easy to track and under 40yds.
With my bow, I'm a fixed blade guy. With my crossbow, G5 mega meat is spectacular in a real Quentin Tarantino kinda way.
I agree that its situational which works better. For me, I have lost deer with mechanicals due to deflection from small limbs that caused the mechanical to open. I hunt in theick cover in Maine with a low deer population. I also had a full passthrough with an iron will wide and clipped the top of a lung and we never recovered that deer, even after 3 miles and a tracking dog. I have said both; i should have had a mechnaical and I should have used a fixed blade. I guess were always learning.
I actually switched back last year for all the reasons you mention. No regrets.
I agree Brandon 100 percent! If you know you a good shot and trust yourself that ur gunna hit where u aim then no reason to shoot fixed
If my memory serves me correctly, we as bowhunters are trying to kill animals. This is done by causing trauma to the muscle, bone, organs, connective tissue, blood supply, anything that gets in the way. If I’m understanding your logic, you would rather bounce an arrow off a bone with an inferior arrow system than get in deep and kill it. I had to rewatch to make sure I didn’t misunderstand you. Maybe you’re doing parody videos now?
You have built a rep for being a normal guy sharing thoughts and info and I appreciate that, but there are newbies who take everything guys like you say as law and run with it. I pray to God not one bowhunter watches this and adopts this nonsense. It’s almost as dumb as Dudley saying the arrow should stay in the animal so it is aware of the arrow and runs faster causing death quicker. What in the world has happened to the bowhunting community?
When he made the statement about bounce off and come out, it blew my mind. I personally think that is a very poor argument. However I shoot both and I do agree with him on the cutting surface forgiveness. But man that’s a bold statement to say you want it to hit and come out… I had to rewatch it several times to make sure I heard what I thought I did lol
I’m not trying to argue with anybody. I’m just sitting a fact he needs to take ownership for making bad shots and not blaming equipment. I know just like anybody else has lost an animal since I live in Alaska. I lost a 65 inch moose. I blame myself, not the equipment.
@@tycolee4306 this statement is played out. Of course bad shots happen, but a mechanical is more forgiving on a bad shot than a fixed is. This is bow hunting, bad shots happen. If you’re going to sit around punching yourself in the head over it happening, go pick up a rifle, or just don’t hunt.
This feels like planning to fail. I really like your take on stuff, I was just surprised by this take. Looking forward to your continued updates with more experiences!
Out of curiosity, did you shoot the doe you spoke of from the ground, or a tree?
I’m a fan of the sevrs.
Also really like the afflictor hybrid. The design doesn’t se to cost much energy at all and they lock open
Whatever happened to that goal you had to shoot a 300? Did you succeed?
You hit the central point - the bow/arrow/shooter combination has to be tuned. A shooter cannot begin from any other point and expect optimal results. I shoot a fixed blade because I place a higher value on the maxim "that anything mechanical can fail" than I do "a better blood trail". Thank you for sharing your thought process and rationale for your choices. Good luck this fall.
Cool video i have had great success wt Magnus stinger buzz cut broadheads wt bleeders. But also wt Rage hypodermic no collar. My mathews is tuned and i pull 78# 28.5 mods 430 grain Easton axis 5mm arrows. And get pass throughs. Just food for thought.
I feel like your argument is: On a bad shot, a non kill shot, you would rather run an expandable because it would have a better chance of failing to cause more penetration and possibly give the animal a better chance at survival.
My thought is: Every bad shot is going to give you such different results. I have a feeling that the failure rate and downsides to a mechanical on everyday shots would outweigh the rarer result of a bad shot like the bear you showed a video of.
Or just go right down the middle and shoot a large fixed 3 blade.
With mechanicals being a "non-popular" option nowadays, it's refreshing to see someone's perspective on mechanicals that came from the heavy arrow camp. I'm interested in both options but since I only shoot 60 pounds that kind of only leaves me with light and fast. Very informative, thanks man.
At what DL?
@@michaelcolthart4006 27.5 - 28
@@michaelcolthart4006 27.5 to 28
I shot my buck last yr with a grim reaper. I use them a lot. That buck was at 35 yards, I thought facing away, but he was actually facing more to. The arrow went in great and exited through the gut. I saw the gut hanging out the exit. He ran 70 yards, stopped, stood there not feeling well and eventually fell over. We tracked him in the dark and had almost NO blood. I feel if you accidentally hit a deer in the gut it is more likely to expire quicker than a smaller fixed blade. I use a 1 3/4” grim reaper because I’ve had the 2” blades break off in the ribs. Those blades are just so long they’re like twigs. My bow can shoot either broadheads accurately at 40yards. I’ve got both fixed and grim reaper but I like the grim reaper. I’m more worried about a gut shot than a shoulder shot.
Worst case scenario in my mind is not hitting bone at all. Worst case is too far back.
I shoot 13/8 pro grim reaper and cause of injuries can only shoot mid 50 pounds with 360 grain arrow. Shot 3 deer last season arrow stayed in all three. Not one of them made it more than 20 yards with great blood. Happy hunting and God bless
That’s interesting. I would have said not to shoot mechanicals with 50lbs but it’s working for you. Keep rocking!
Grim reapers are the only ones I’ll use. I am going to shoot tooth of the arrow fixed this year though.
I have to say this is the best argument for mechanicals I’ve ever heard. I totally disagree but respect your opinion and delivery of said opinion. Bad shots are going to happen and you can plan for them but you’re always giving something up. Penetration or size of the hole. Just have to pick one and stand by it and accept the outcome.
If an arrow doesn’t go all the way threw you will get a better blood trail because the arrow is keeping all the holes in line. The hole in the hide the hole threw the ribs and lungs.
I'm constantly having this conversation in my head because I have a setup that shoots fixed blade broadheads really well. Like you, though, I've noticed that the blood trails aren't great. I literally had to find a deer by smell a couple years ago, but I use the fixed blades over and over. On the flip side, every deer I've shot with a mechanical (first rages and then Sevrs) has left an absolulte horror show of blood. The Rages were one and done, and I switched to Sevrs because I had a rage blade break off in a Buck (Still recovered the buck, but I don't like having to look for a razor in my meat). The Sevrs have been reusable with the occational blade swap and shoot really well. I bought some Grim Reaper whitetail specails and the one I was using for practice completely fell apart after only four shots into foam, so that head is going to be relegated to turkey duty (which I think it will be excellent for). I don't trust it's structural integrity on a deer rib, let alone anything harder. I really like the simplicity of the Sevrs an the way they pivot around bone. I think it puts them in contention as one of the best broadheads out there, as it sidesteps (literally) the "bone breaking" issue.
I also think a low profile mechanical is just more likely to hit where you are aiming in the wild. They are more forgiving off the shot and less susceptible to environmental factors, so I too am thinking of switching back.
Where was the cigar and bourbon sir???? 😂. I’m having the same “full circle “ in this area myself. Just gives me a more clear idea
With your Whitetail Special kills, do you feel like the broadhead has made up for a less than stellar hit on an animal; or were all of the kills text book shots?
One in a doe was high. The rest were good. High shot in the doe was still double lung but I credit the size of the cut of the broadhead to actually getting lung
@@brandonmcdonald6121 that’s good info, I appreciate it.
Ive had too many not open. Thats my experience. I use 3 blade fixed now. Dont have blood trail problems. FOC for pass thru. But thats where im comfortable
Nothing wrong with that. Confidence in your gear and understanding what it can and can’t do. Sounds like you’re there.
Dam you Brandon, you made sense for once
Dangit, I've returned to archery after 13 years..... a lot has changed in that time. Especially with archery laws in oregon. I have been waffling forever over the fixed blades I like and going to mechanicals. And I'm open as I'm basically brand new again. This made me start thinking again... and season is a month and a half away.... thanks for that, honestly. Time to build my own opinion.
Brandon, sincere question here… why not get the best of both worlds with a huge fixed blade? Something like Tooth of the Arrow 4 blade XL? Total cut of 2-3/8” and built like a tank. The one drawback or challenge with something like that is tuning, and you’re clearly already committed to achieving perfect arrow flight with whatever head you shoot. Seems like a perfect fit for you
Hit big bones with Grim Reaper mechanicals before and always blow right through them.
Many game farms in Zimbabwe and South Africa will not allow the use of mechanical broadheads on tougher &/or heavier boned game due to too many failures to deploy properly, penetrate deeply enough or break or a combination of these problems.
@@colinmitchell3213 technology has came a long ways as far as broadheads go. It will take the laws sometime to catch up. I am speaking from my experience breaking bones on large North American game. We don’t have Cape buffalo here. But I’ve broke femurs and shoulders on several elk with great success. But I’m also shooting a 84lb speed bow which definitely helps.
I never left them bro lol but the Magnus stinger does have a soft spot in my heart and I always keep one in my quiver
“anecdotal”. BMac would say. We’ll figure it out for ourselves. each hunter/archer has their own shooting abilities, Hunting abilities and how they handle perceived pressure Which will influence their hunting set ups.
You can talk until you’re blue in the face. I’ll never go back to mechanicals again. Most are made out of China $.99 steel one and done usually and I was always taught at a young age. 2 holes are always better than one no matter how big I suspect, you’ll give us a go for a while and you’ll be back to a fix blade someday😊
Been using 150 grain mechanicals for years now, almost always pass throughs, last year wondered why it didn’t until I went to gut him here the 150 grain Rage went through and destroyed the opposite upper leg bone on a well over 230 pound dressed buck. Never seen anything like it!
I shot a 80lbs pa doe last yr with whitetail special it went in right behind front shoulder defected off rib and exited out hind quarter of the same side it entered i switched to beast the next hunt and 9 deer later have not had 1 deflection or non passthru since dont no the science behind it but something in the blades having tentation and being able to move ard bone is a huge benefit on deflection witch has been my biggest issue with most mechanicals
Mechanicals are great if you never have to take a steep angle or 1/4 away shot. If you can get a clean broadside they rarely fail. I am sticking with a fixed blade montec because the less things I have to worry about in the moment lining up a shot the better.
I guided on bears for a few years and I can tell you I strongly disliked hunters using mechanicals especially from a stand.
More often than not mechanicals did not punch through and make a second hole and when you are hunting from a tree or elevated stand you only get one high entry wound and their fur especially in later season when their fur is thick just soaks up the blood and you lose all of the benefit of the mechanical.
I just saw more pass throughs with fixed blades and Ive only hunted myself fixed blades and its way better to have two holes especially a lower hole coming out of the lower rib cage for a good blood trail than just one higher shot middle or up higher from stand angle.
A lot of time tree stand hunters on bears will put the arrow too high on the rib cage and just pin that arrow right under and it will get next to no penetration but it nicks a lung or liver and you have a bear that you dont recover but it definitely dies.
There are ways you can make sure you get two holes with a mechanical and can have a messy blood trail -
1. Shoot broadside. Middle middle slightly front but not front like a deer. Do not shoot directly behind the crease. Its behind the crease and then some... its a bad way to look at a bears vitals.
2. NEVER take a shot on a bear unless the front paws are in the same position forward or that the front leg that is closest to the shooter is farther forward than the front leg farthest.
3. Pay attention to a curling bear. A bear that presents broadside but is stepping with the leg farthest away ahead and curls towards you. That shot looks great but like the bear on this video it was a text book DO NOT SHOOT SITUATION because you not only get the shoulder turning blocking the vitals but the bear is tucking its vitals farther back, the fur hangs forward and the shoulder plunges forward and the largest part of the rib cage that is going to eat that arrow presents itself.
4. Hunt from the ground if you can. Tree stand hunters on bears, especially inexperienced ones have a tendency to place their arrows right on the shoulder blade or shoot too high and get deflections from fur and the way the rib cage bends from the spine high or they shoot too low and catch hide or a deflection off the sternum.
I have seen some devastating mechanical broadhead shots until the areas we were guiding banned mechanicals but I would say we recovered bad shots with fixed more than we recovered bad shots with mechanicals and do not lie to yourself thinking the bear survived. Especially in a very "bear density" area like Alaska or BC .
This comment carries some weight. Thanks for taking the time.
I think that both have their place. If your somebody that is very discipline and will only take broad side and quartering away shots them mechanicals are a great tool. If your someone like myself that isn’t afraid to take a quartering too shot at close range then heavy single bevel is the way to go. No matter what you have to practice and toon your bow and arrows. They are both tool that work. They just work different.
Honestly I think people are just taking too far of shots, on deer especially. Until arrows break the sound barrier 40 is just too far. I don’t like mechanicals but it’s not their fault that guy took a bad shot. Every setup has its limitations, just know what yours are and make sure it flies straight
That’s clown talk. Come out to Arizona, where real bow hunters live. I just did a job for a man in his late 50’s who has a wall lined, with a lifetime of bull elk in the 350 plus range, and he took most of those elk beyond 60 yards with a 356 grain arrow, and an old school thunderhead. Anyone who is truly successful is just laughing at the dumb argument you guys pose. The biggest elk this guy killed was at 77 yards with the setup I just mentioned. And you can’t kill a whitetail at 29-30 yards with your ridiculously heavy arrow? Lol
@@progradepainting3755 my arrow is like 450. Your binary brain is fried. Just because I like fixed doesn’t mean I’m dead set on heavy. That old duffer showed you all his wins but what about his losses? I wasn’t talking about elk was I? Brandon just told a story of a doe moving, what about when it’s a buck that’s thicker and faster? Run along, you’re trying to argue with a ghost
@@bigz5262 yeah? And your autistic brain is seized up because you think somehow you can make bowhunting a 100% guaranteed kill every time, chasing your delusions that’s there’s this perfect way to do it. It doesn’t work that way. Bowhunting is imperfect by its very nature. It’s a primitive process. So yeah, everyone has missed. Yet, how many times do you think you can hunt 350 plus class bull elk on public land in a lifetime? For most people, that’s maybe 4-5 times, if they’re insanely dedicated and lucky. And yet, this guy has easily harvested 7 with a bow, probably more. And he’s killing an animal over twice the size of an eastern whitetail, with an arrow that weighs 100 grains less than yours, and still getting pass throughs! When do you wake up and say “damn, I must be missing something here?” You back east hunters are really the only ones complaining about your arrow weights, how much you hate mechanicals, and whining about pass throughs. None of you talk about the importance of things like, how well tuned your bow is, your sight access, your angle compensation, the quality of your range finder, precision on decline AND inclined shots, your arrow flight, and shot placement, none of the things that actually matter. My first pin starts at 30 yards here Arizona.
@@bigz5262 I know, you have a hard time articulating anything of value about bowhunting. Challenged on one issue, and you just shut down.
@@progradepainting3755 you’re so desperate to get words out you’re arguing with things I never said. I’m not shutting down, some people aren’t worth engaging with.
I’m of the opposite Camp… I’ve never lost a deer from a fixed blade and keeping blood IN the deer has caused my deer to go down MUCH faster. It’s the pulmonary trauma caused by them filling up. But I have had deer hit with a mechanical run for upwards of a mile before going down… Blood trails are good but a long blood trail is a lot harder to follow, then a quick death in my opinion. All that being said… It’s a lot easier to track a deer in Kansas prairie than it is in the forest of Tennessee, so I understand brother.
I’m also genuinely curious… do your deer go WAY farther with a heart shot than they do with a good well placed double lung? I’ve seen a buck go 200-300+ yards with a hole in his heart…and had a fixed blade double mid-lung, farther back, and watched them step 10-20yds, stop, and get weak legs and topple over….
@poppasmurf15 what you are describing is a hemothorax but air gets in as well and it’s called a hemo-pneumo (I’ve been an ED trauma, and thoracic surgery nurse a long time). When blood or air fills up the thoracic cavity, death happens much faster than if it escapes, which is why we put chest tubes in to get it out. You made a great observation noticing that
never lost a deer? BS or you haven't shot many deer.
I would like to see arrow companies make lighter gpi arrows and still be strong. For example a 250 spine arrow around 5-6 gpi with mfjj’s insert and collar. Taw without head be around 250gr with a solid 3 blade at 1.5 cut around 150-200 gr
@@Treymorrell agreed.
@@progradepainting3755yeah so you can have 20 lbs of kinetic energy on those 70 yard shots your making lol
I like it…Back to shooting my Original Rocket Steelhead 100’s, they just kill things! Also have the Grim Reaper Fatal Steel…I will still have my G5 Strikers and all shoot lights out, but like the results of the Mechanicals…Good for you! 👊🏻 Also, I feel the more compact they are, the better they are, but that’s JMO and performance…
I don’t care what equipment people use. For me, it boils down to the following:
Be as proficient as possible with your gear and be respectful of the animal you’re shooting at. It’s a privilege to rule over God’s creatures. Be good stewards out there.
Good viewpoint
I've had great luck with the GR Whitetail Specials and Sevr 2.0 on whitetail.
I am a professional hunter in Africa, we specialize in guiding bow hunters and these are my observations. Nothing trumps shot placement. If your shot is placed to penetrate the vitals it does not really matter if you are shooting a mechanical or fixed blade broad head, both result in a clean kill. Unfortunately string jumping and ducking to the shot is a very real possibility, this often results in shots that enter high and further back than intended, in which case a bigger bladed mechanical may just save the day by causing more damage. The idea that you can shoot a fixed blade on a quartering on shot , punch through the shoulder and still reach the vitals is not really helpful advice. This is normally what the proponents of heavy arrows and fixed blade broad heads recommend. If you hit a big bone square on you are not going to get much penetration except if you are shooting smaller animals (under 180 lbs) and have sufficiently high draw weight and arrow mass. Pick your shots carefully, wait for the animals to be calm and relaxed and put your arrow through the vitals. In Africa you pay for wounded animals that are not recovered. Brandon thanks for the great content you create.
Dude, WHY IN THE FUCK DID YOU EVER, EVER STOP USING THEM ????? RAGE BABY!!!!! ALL THE WAY!!!!!
same here! Switching to Mechs, for a few similar and a few different reasons
wanted to make a video like this, but I'll have to figure out a new concept. great vid
I read through a ton of these comments, and i mean a ton. And not once did I see anyone mention the sharpness factor. I hunt traditional and use two blades all the time. They have to be razor sharp, otherwise they will push tissue, organs, etc. more than cut. Imagine trying to stab a steak with a butter knife. As far as mechanicals, I've never shot them, even when I was compound hunting, but I've heard too many stories of them failing to agree with your points. But you do you. Whatever we do or however we hunt, remember... Shot placement is king. My two blades might not leave a great blood trail but i don't need it when I watch them go down. Good luck to all this season.
Spitfire. Flight and accuracy is more important to me than anything else. Mechanicals All Day Everyday.