Valuable voice. I often worry that opinions and reviews can get swept up in the release hype of a game. I like this kind of video as a supplement to a review to provide a more balance. Thank you for taking the time to make it.
I love the game so much. I’m at the end, and my only complaint is how the ending is dragging on. I love long games - the longer the better. Just hate when they say it’s the final battle and there’s like 2+ full mandatory dungeons and multiple boss battles to go. I was preparing to wind down and it just keeps going and going. Still love it all, though.
I felt like that a little bit just because of the anxiousness I kept feeling thinking it was coming. But when it comes, it comes lol I was honestly appreciative that I had multiple chances to prepare when it finally came because I needed it, and I saw the fruits of all the preparation they allowed at the end.
I agree with the ending dragging on. I ran out of stuff to do as well, and the game needed a fast forward to final date kind of option. Great game, just pacing at the end is off.
@@Celastrida23I appreciate that the game gives you a good amount of leeway to complete everything you need to do before the ending, even if it means some dead days at the end. It's not fun in the earlier Persona games where the schedule was so tight that you basically had to use a guide to do everything in one playthrough. The Metaphor approach is far better.
Oh, I didn’t take it personally. Text and context don’t always mesh. Just in case others read the comment. I think during the drafts and edits I listened to it like a podcast lol - Azario
@@andredevarie1What was the point of all this? Also people take jokes differently I didn't get it either besides you saying it's good? Your comment was completely out of context.
Predictable isn't always a bad thing, early game spoilers below: Yeah, Grius's death flags were so loud I was saying all it was missing was: "2 days away from retirement", but it still needed to light the fire under the first 3 characters to get them going. I also don't think lazy is predictable. Lazy would've been if the protagonist reacted to Grius's death, and reacted as: "oh that guy", but the death sticks with the characters for a long long while afterwards even outside of Maria's bond story.
@michaelhowell2809 I am shocked that it would've worked if it wasn't for the king itself, which adds to the awful irony of Grius fighting in his name. Once Grius only got an archetype via sharing, I suspected he was going to die, when his daughter was revealed AND ESPECIALLY after her friendship Unlocked Healer archetype, I could 100% tell he was going to die.
Idk it just kinda sucked that the king’s protection magic was waved off by Louis himself in the final act . Grius death would have been cooler if Louis turned him into a human .
@@vcom741 > I am shocked that it would've worked if it wasn't for the king itself, which adds to the awful irony of Grius fighting in his name. I'm not so sure it would have. Louis is shown as quite tough to kill in later cutscenes, and Zorba was nearby and could have set up an undead distraction and then easily healed Louis' wounds. So Grius would also need to be lucky/skillful enough to make a wound that Zorba doesn't know how to heal before Louis actually dies from it.
I think it is, it also helped me notice some fun intersections in other games. Was playing FF stranger of paradise and they had a line about Chaos being the anxiety that lies in our hearts. The fantasy setting also pulls in some themes / tropes you find in Shield Hero / isekai anime’s, and also Gundam (especially Unicorn Gundam) about the power of possibility. I think Metaphor executes these fantasy themes epically Was looking at Albrecht Durer’s lithograph print of Melancholia and they def were probably inspired by this too. Also this whole game - archetypes, the story etc is the Hero’s journey from Joseph Campbell/ Bill Moyers book A hero with a Thousand faces
Excellent review, deserves way more views. Concise and to the point but at the same time with a well written script. Too many so called reviews are either unopinionated feature lists that you used to find on the back of the box or they’re the rambling of someone 10h into the game.
This probably has my favorite implementation of a class system, but hearing the problems you had with it makes sense. Its tight but still flexible balance in proportion to every enemy you face feels nearly perfect to me. Everything serves its intended purpose and is always designed around such. I usually hate switching around classes often just to take some skills from it or optimize matchups, but the way the game gives you information and the ease of use made it the most fun I've had with this kind of system, especially when I never felt the need to pull up guides. It was almost shocking how consistently engaging hard felt with the things it asks of the player. Also I think you're a bit mistaken with your elementalist and royal summoner comparison. The royal classes are character exclusive, much harder to unlock and cannot be inherited from so naturally a good amount of them are simply better than the normal ones.
I loved Metaphor and the Persona games. I’ve put over 100 hours each into Metaphor, and Persona 3/4/5 across their various versions. And while Metaphor will be vying for a spot in my own top 5 if not top 3 games this year, I do have some critiques I’ve been writing up of my own: 1. I also had the same take on some of the archetype issues you pointed out. I would also add/emphasize that the late game/Royal archetypes require certain classes outside of their line to unlock (like the mages for Hulkenburg or commanders for Strohl etc.) so the game points you towards those classes, further hindering experimentation especially in the mid game when resources are still kinda tight. Would like to see them instead require options or number of classes needed to unlock to progress instead of shoehorning builds. To that end, would also love to see the ability to unlock skill fusion instead of just inheritance to further add to player customization and experimentation - something like that could be really cool too 2. Story is mostly predicatable as you say but to me the larger issue is the imbalance of show vs. tell. Lotssss of exposition where the characters explain the story more than the events of the narrative themselves being self evident in how they unfold and exemplify the themes on the screen. Louis and the Eldan village chief in particular spending a lottttt of time TELLING you the story and those long exposition dumps started to grind on me 3. I wish the party interactions were less hub and spoke. It’s always a follower and the protagonist. Especially for party members, I would like to see the devs level up the social interactions to be more about different types of interpersonal interactions and not just MC plus one all the time 4. Some more dungeon variety would be really nice and I don’t just mean visually. The worm thing? Most memorable dungeon by far for me and it created an actual sense of urgency 5. Quality of life and ACCESSIBILITY. Yes everyone wants full voice acting because it helps realize the characters more, but it’s also an accessibility thing for blind/low vision or cognitive players (ex: dyslexia) which is something metaphor sorely lacks. Even basic accessibility features like larger text sizes or the ability to zoom in on the map are missing here and I would really hope to see them do better. Also I could be misremembering but I don’t think you can remap controls on console. I have some other quality of life nitpicks (like saving equipment loadouts would be clutch since every time you switch classes it defaults to highest attack/defense gear regardless of what buffs/effects you’re prioritizing) Enjoyed the video! Long response, apologies there, but wanted to contribute :)
No need to apologize! I agree with most of what you said. For 3, that's definitely a major thing I'd like to see added. Persona 3 Reload spoils you in that context I think, there's tons of stuff with multiple characters interacting. Metaphor is sparse in that stuff by comparison. Dungeon variety would be great and I think kind of links back to how few main dungeons there were. I'd care less that most of the side dungeons were pretty basic if there were 2 or 3 more unique main dungeons with specific mechanics in the vein of the Persona 5 dungeons. Adding on to that, at least when the game released on PC there was no anti-aliasing and I had to download a mod specifically to remove the speed lines when you're sprinting, because you're ALWAYS sprinting and it ruins the otherwise awesome environmental design. Definitely a lot of little stuff like accessibility and options slipped through the cracks, I hope that's something they add with updates.
@ I remember hearing about the speed lines stuff! On console too some frame rate issues too that PS5 Pro supposedly helps but shouldn’t need that level of hardware to stabilize this game’s performance. Again a great game, and I don’t want the memes about Atlus re releases to pop off, but there are definitely some things they could tweak in a next release of the game (looking at you, Switch successor…)
13:44 you’re comparing an elite Archetype to a royal Archetype Elite classes are the final universal version of a class Royal is meant to be the pinnacle of a specific character’s abilities and are as such harder to get, more expensive and of course stronger If you actually compare elementalist to Devil Summoner, the elite archetype, you find that any AOE non synthesis magic is medium damage and it’s a mixed class with strength based abilities focused on sheer coverage and utility above damage which elementalist trades some utility for heavy magic That’s why you see a difference, you’re comparing apples to oranges, or rather a flaming sword to a lightsaber, one is more powerful because it’s in another league
11:31 I REALLY disagree here. I understand where you're coming from, in theory this means that you can stay as one class forever (or that you're encouraged too) and not have to try other class but I LOVED this. I hated in games with job systems where once you max out the job, you HAVE to swap to something else or you're wasting job points. Now I'm playing a job that may not be as good as the previous job (at least till its leveled a bit) and it feels so discouraging to have a weird backwards progress loop. I loved this system a lot cause now I can swap to that next job when I'm ready for it, or when I feel like it will be useful. I think this allows so much more control and lets you use what your comfortable with till you're ready to try something else out. Plus if there are characters where I'm not sure what job I want them to be, so now I can save that EXP for later vs wasting it on something I'm not sure of. I really think seeing this as a negative is kind of narrow minded when imo when it has more benefits and QoL there . I don't think having this is discouraging player customization, in fact the opposite.
Yeah, it's fantastic to be able to bank XP and use it when you are having trouble with a boss / area, and need to raise a new Archetype quickly to help counter it
I get what you're saying, but there is OBJECTIVELY something wrong with the system. He didn't talk about it in his videos, but there are objectively better classes for fighting in the overworld, where fighting animations are immensely shorter/quicker than others. These do infact matter when you're fighting enemies with quick attacks (the skeletons). This game tries to provide variety, but these aspects get in the way of player choice. This is an objective flaw. Whether you want to play as just one or a few classes is your choice, but it shouldn't be because you're forced to, but rather you want to. These flaws prevent that.
@@TheMirksta An issue with this is, the banked exp could go to a different characters progression. It does open up for player choice, but it takes away from other character's progression if not planned well. This probably should be addressed by having character specific "points", even have them interchangeable. But the way it is now, it's flawed.
I just finished my first playthrough last night. 155 hours in. That's the most I've ever put into any game in my life lol what a journey it was. It's my favorite game of 2024 so far.
My wife and I finished this game a couple of days ago, and we both had a fantastic talk about anxiety, fear and hope and yeah, while I don't think Metaphor quite hits the heights of the modern Persona games, it also doesn't have any of its lows. It is definitely my favorite JRPG this year, which is saying a lot considering the year this genre has had. Also, this was a really awesome video and I would love to see more things like this going forward.
Appreciate it! I think not hitting the highs but not hitting the lows is definitely a good way to describe it. Look forward to doing more videos like this.
@@verdokaspt I think so, yes. I like P3 Reload a lot, but I'm also a bit saddened by how 'frictionless' it is. That said, I am a sicko who genuinely enjoyed how rough around the edges the original game was and I think the remake loses a lot of what makes the Original/Fes special.
Great video! I finished the game last night, totally my GoTY. Totally realized I’ve missed a lot of finer details after watch your video. Great to know for new game plus!
Finishing a 20 min Ian video can be inherently emotional. The journey I took on his channel stuck with me to this new channel. There's been other Ian videos in the past with objectively amazing editing that I ended up getting attached to what I have to assume is godly content creation. And so for me, especially as a super fan, I'm happy to see his video success in other channels. It can be tempting to declare his videos as masterpieces or all time greats based on that initial positive feeling I get after finishing a great video. And you know what, they are always masterpieces. Your friendly whale friendo, Auto 🐋
Biggest issue by the end became lack of enemy variety (throw reused bosses in with this), and lack of unique music for many bosses and dungeons. I loved the game and had a blast with the combat system and time management aspect, but it felt a little underproduced compared to P5 in those aspects. I remember playing P5 for the first time and encountering entirely new enemy types and unique bosses in the final two palaces that helped to keep it fresh and push the game to the end, and this just didn’t have that. Storywise it was still great, and even though it was predictable at times, a lot of the predictable stuff were cases I thought “I wonder if (insert thing) will happen. I bet it will. That would be cool.” and then it did happen and it was cool. Overall it doesn’t quite hit the same level of quality as P5 did for me, but it felt well worth my time.
I think it’s worth considering that Persona 5 benefits from decades of work regarding demons, and have hundreds of well-tested designs to choose from while adding just a few more. This is Atlus trying to create something beyond that shared universe. Combat has more depth as it’s to be expected from a press-turn variety but it won’t quite reach SMT V levels as it isn’t the same level of priority. I only wish Metaphor would break away even more from Persona to be more its own thing. I think it went halfway only. I think it’s a great game but I’m itching for something as different as Catherine again from Atlus. I still loved the game even if I prefer Persona 3 Reload and Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance more this year.
I like the new contributor. It's refreshing to hear someone point out that new games actually have flaws. Almost every review for every new popular game is just Something Something MASTERPEICE!!! I will wait for the eventual update to this game. There's just no reason to buy Altus games at launch, when you know a better version is two years away. Also, I do wish newer RPGs would be shorter. It's hard to justify playing P5R, P3R, or Metaphor, when you could also play final fantasy 6,7,9 and maybe even 10 in the same amount of time.
don't know if we'll get that, the studio already went on to say that they're moving away from that and moving towards DLC when they want to add content
@@RedBull528really hope so. It’s depressingly peak capitalism when they release the same game with some new content and QOL improvements and expect us to pay full price again. Looking at you, too, Pokémon (Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, …)
Refreshing to see a review of this game that doesn't come off as super fanboyish and can actually say something of substance that's not just "it's peak".
Great video and welcome, Ian! I love the idea of this type of video, so I greatly appreciate it. Personally I’ll probably skip this, as I’m not a fan of the “Persona work,” but hope to see more videos like this from you!
I’m legit still playing it about to beat NG+ and probably start another new playthrough 😅 There’s a surprising amount to do if you want to 100% the game. Getting every follower all the archetypes takes quite a bit of time. I really really hope we get some DLC or additional content eventually. The world and characters they built are way too charming and unique to just be a one off
I'm nearing the end, and it's easily my GOTY. I agree with what you said about the flaws in the combat system, and I wonder if that's to encourage playing on a higher difficulty for New Game + (if there is one). Overall, it's a fantastic game.
In terms of your thoughts on class balance, I personally don't agree with them. I think your thoughts on the Mage class in particular didn't really make sense. The Royal classes in general and the Royal Summoner class in particular are designed as main classes. For one, they are stronger at base than Elite archetypes in the same way that Elite archetypes are stronger than their predecessor archetypes. But in addition to that, Royal archetypes (and the Summoner line in general) do not have inheritable skills, meaning that you *must* have that class as a main in order to use them. In addition, the Summoner class line is balanced around the fact that it gets no buffing passives at default and therefore must use all of their inheritance slots to get the strong passives the other classes offer. This is in contrast to the Mage line, which contains basically all of the passives and support skills for magic attackers. Besides that, the Mage archetypes' synergy skills are extremely powerful, and they have even more passives to support their use. In the end game, I moved the MC off of his Royal archetype and basically just used the Elementalist because I could apply Fire weakness, use Hyper to buff my next move, then use Meteopheor with the passive that boosts synthesis damage. This is even more strong because Meteopheor is tied with Peerless Stonecleaver and the Elementalist's own Skyfall Bolts for highest single attack damage in the game. The only higher is Royal Sword, and that is Almighty so it cannot refund turn icons. Also, the point about Mastered classes having 1-to-1 XP retention is understandable, but as someone who has played many games without that feature, it can make it so that you feel like you *have* to swap off the powerful classes you like using, reducing your options in other ways. Like, I appreciate that I can keep using the Seeker even though it is maxed without throwing away XP, or I can keep a character on a mastered class until I can level up the next class past the level 1 hump when it has few skills.
The follower stories were so good. I cried a lot , and got surprisded a fair. It too. Plus they felt natural to the over all story, very happy with them
I will raise an objection to the Royal Summoner's abilities being objectively better than single target spells. When fighting multiple enemies, an aoe spell can hit repel/blocks for some enemy types and end your turn. However, it is true that the Mage tier 3 classes arrive too late. By that time, you have Emerald Vortex on the main character and the masked dancer can cause one time weaknesses, so the whole 'multiple elements' thing is not necessary.
Thanks for the heads up about exp farming for classes. This is the first I'd heard of it. Systems like that are frustrating when you realize how they work because you initially feel like you've found an exploit, so you gleefully exploit it, then realize you spent the bulk of your time farming XP on a class or character that you wanted to move on from in order to max out the one that you did want to play. It's always weird and unsatisfying. I'll keep an eye out for ways I can avoid having to do that when I give the game a shot.
Yeah it's not game ruining or anything but expect it to be a slow progression. My thought was that it'd start slow and get faster once you got later in the game but it sort of stayed slow the whole way. You can go pretty quick in the endgame but the way to do it is leaving all 3 bench characters on a maxed class so you can feed the characters you're actually using which felt...off. Like I was resigning those guys to a permanent benching.
@@Ianbits That's giving me flashbacks of the two days I spent leveling the valkyrie profile 2 einherjar just so I could retire them and finally use their parting gift XP to make my main characters competitive. Neat idea, but doing it was awful and the game was balanced around the assumption the player would do it.
@@IanbitsI was swapping all the characters in and out of my party until the end and I had little issue unlocking and maxing everyone's Royal Archetypes, even with some detours into non-essential archetypes earlier in the game. This is also with little to no grinding on hard mode. (Which reduces exp.) So I just don't think it was much of an issue in my experience. One of the best things about the way leveling works in this game is that I rarely felt trapped on an archetype I didn't want to use, because using a maxed archetype still got you exp. In other games like this I would so often have to use something I didn't really want to use just to make sure I was optimizing my exp gain, but here I can just use my favorite classes and use the extra exp items to level whatever I want.
little tip for leveling other archetypes, play as one youve already mastered and start using the fruits. you get instead of archetype levels. I did that and i could max out an archetype for each character in maybe an hour, probably less time than that if you have your whole party set to a mastered archetype. you end up getting 5-10 fruits every battle and you only need about 50 or so to max out any other given archetype. i maxed out every archetype for every character just about in my 2nd playthrough.
I like the re-visited concept, and I spent 100 hours into Metaphor. As someone who is a big Persona fan as well, I enjoyed it for the experience and hope they take this new successful IP in a new direction. There will most probably be a re-release in true Atlus fashion that will definitely improve the game that could then make it more comparable to P5R imo. I thought it was a great 8.75/10 experience but don't really have a desire to play it again or re-explore the world once I did everything. The "side content" felt much more recommended main content because it was responsible for most the game's depth and fun for me. So after maxing out Bonds, doing all the hard bosses and dungeons, and acquiring all Archetypes I felt like i enjoyed this catered storytelling and systems but didn't feel as challenged or invested as a player. Excited for the franchise and the inevitable re-release though (which is hopefully DLC and not a whole other full price game).
This game definitely does not stick the landing. It starts off incredible, but by the last third of the game, it kinda goes all over the place. Contrived plot twists, unforeshadowed villains, offscreen death of incredibly important characters, the insane amount of days you get at the end of the game. Although it started off well, by the end of the game I was so bored and annoyed by the lackluster writing that I just wanted to get it over with.
Starts at 4:00 The previous time is spent telling you essentially just what's in the video title "In this video, I ask is it as good?" and a recap of the beginning plot, which most of you already know.
The goal is to keep some things accessible for people who haven't played - they can follow some of my points when I talk about the story a bit easier with the setup.
The only thing that I really don’t like are the constantly moving text boxes, I really wish I could turn off all the flashing and moving of the text boxes because it is really distracting, essentially for someone with adhd :p I really wish they would have build in an option to turn off the moving text boxes.
I believe i’m almost towards the end of the game myself and i do love the game. My major negative though is the long dialogue moments. Sometimes it feels like a full hour will go by of me just sitting there just WAITING to want to get into a dungeon and battle but instead i’m spending so much time talking for LONG period of times. Overall, love this brand new IP but definitely looking forward to major improvements for future games within this franchise but game of the year for me is 100% FF7 Rebirth. But wow, so many amazing games that came out within the last few years! 👏🏼⭐️
For the most part the game was great, but it kind of botched the message in the third act with the big narrative reveal, which was kind of ironic in the sense that it turned a story from being anti-institution and pro-democracy to something else entirely. I think it's kind of folly to expect any actually subversive stories from a large scale corporation, but it was a kind of slight of hand narrative rug pull that was kind of amusing if it didn't make much of the late narrative kind of an eye-roll. This isn't that surprising, again, since Atlus games often get in their own way in the last leg.
The message and thematic elements were the same all throughout. Your interpretation and initial impressions are what changed. The game isn't about politics, it just uses political narrative elements to back up its core theme of escapism.
@@ianp5367 Mm, the game is about politics at its core, but not in the way that someone might think on-face. It's about the power of escapism and fantasy to shape and influence the world you live in now and provide motivation and the dream for a better world, which is explicitly a pretty political take, especially if you're well read on the historiography of fantasy. The book (and More) are a sort of frame narrative for the diagetic message. That being said, the politics of the game world itself are absolutely related, and part and parcel, to the theme of using fantasy to move forward, and it's within that it stumbles because its political imagination is ironically limited.
From what I've seen, the 'hype' seems to be coming from people who were already excited for an Atlus title, and the 'negativity' is coming from folks riding the counter-culture bandwagon. Personally I'm in the middle on Atlus games. I like Persona, I don't like SMT, and I think Etrian Odyssey is fine. I personally loved Metaphor and also agree with nearly everything you've said here. At the end of the day... it's a JRPG. If the story makes you feel something you'll probably come away with a positive impression. The combat is going to either feel amazing or simply competent depending on how people feel about the press turn system, so the characters and messaging are what the game needs to pull off to stand out. It worked for me. It won't work for everybody. I do wish more of the internet discourse was honest about these big ol games. I like videos like this one. Typical internet discussion seems to go, "I'm naming my children after this incredible game of the century" followed up by somebody saying "I tried to like this game but it's so -flat- and -generic- and -awful-!" I mean, c'mon. There's obviously a lotta love put into the game. The people who made it care. The mechanics work, even if it isn't always nailing the mark. At worst the game is competent. If it strikes an emotional connection with a person they'll probably come away remembering it for a long time.
The story is very unique and peculiar. Because you are supposed to be killing Louis, but despite being a murderous scumbag, Louis makes sense on so many levels. For example, Louis is for a true meritocracy. I think if he actually led the world, it would be working effectively.
Amazing vid as someon who s half through the game i could not agree more with the author can we please have more vids like this one love the idea of analysis after first few weeks of hype.
I learned about the max rank overleveling granting you 1000exp item just after I finished the game. This explains partly why I felt so underleveled and not able to level much, I switched to easy because of this. Is it ever explained in the game anywhere?
There’s clearly cut content in the back half, specifically The Mage Academy. And I’d argue the first 2-3 dungeons are of higher quality than the rest of the game. The Sand Worm in particular. The Eupha dungeon goes on and on, and all of the dungeons after don’t quite hit the highs of the earlier ones. The core foundation is solid but the game feels as if the devs ran out of time or budget to fully realize their vision. A prime example being the side quests. The rinse and repeat of the Dragon Towers was a bit of a slog. You’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all. Forden’s Council gets relegated to mere side characters that don’t really go anywhere. If a character gets a text portrait, I expect bigger prominence in the story. And I’m of the opinion the game reveals its best songs in the first 3 hours. Save for maybe Eht Ria. The game is a firm 8 that could be relegated to classic status had it spent more time in the oven.
70 hrs in. The biggest reason why this game will become a classic is the in your face metaphor about current real world politics and social culture and how we’re basically devolving and we can still stop it
To me one of the flaws of the class system was as you said it didn't encourage you to experiment. The game has magic classes, but since they don't come from a party member the only really dedicated mage is Eupha. I realized about half way through the game that the characters are best kept as the class they come into the game with and just use level up items to give them extra passive abilities. Once they get their final special class it basically encourages you to build a team with those classes anyway. It's just weird that for a class lines like Mage and Healer you probably won't be using them in your party except maybe to steal an ability or two from them. Also the game send all kinds of interesting accessories your way, but the moment you get the one that lets you do combo attacks and only spend one turn icon, there really is no going back. I also didn't understand the use of the Persona Master job. Why do you need versatility when versatility is build into the very design of the class system? Why do I want Juna to be able to use physical skills when I can just bring a physical character? In the end it does mean the game can be easily planned for and broken once you realize it's limitations. If I ever do a second playthrough I will be much stronger since I'll never have any kind of wonky class mix.
I like the characters in P5 more and I was more invested in that grounded story (well, up until the ending at least), they really took time to build up your scooby gang in P5 and it paid off. I like the art style/soundtrack/dungeon design better in p5 too (for the most part). Still solid but not a masterclass.
@@joseph2000117 it should just do a time skip after certain criteria is met. It completely removes de FOMO and makes the gameplay smoother, new game plus would benefit a lot from this
I thought p5 was Atlus' peak and p6 would be a very tall order. Then this came out and I was floored by it. Now p6 is an even more taller order. Atlus is proving that you don't need ultra-realistic graphics and turn-based systems still and will work if done right. So much boldness in this game that it's inspiring. Been a very long while since I enjoyed one.
Combat lacking its own originality and using the standard SMT press turn system with a job system is honestly not a bad thing. I love job systems and press turn was already my favourite combat system. They really didn't need to do anything else with that format, it's already exactly what I wanted there, even if it does have its own flaws.
@HyruleStreams and what defines an RPG? Being turn based? Theres plenty of action RPGs out there. Rebirth was amazing, a next gen experience which Metaphor isnt. Better story and music too, Metaphor is just another mid RPG.
A game that is best when thought of as the gesalt of all of its parts. However, the whole game wears out its welcome by the late-game and i wish there was more gameplay oomph that i have trouble articulating. I can see and understand why people wouldnt like it but i think this is the most 9/10 game ive ever played in my life, not a masterpiece, but pretty good all things considered
i fell in love with it after the first dungeon (my first atlus game) but as the game drags on it starts running out of new mechanics to show you, starts literally repeating entire side quest zones ad nauseum and the need for resource management goes out the window. Skill expression becomes less about strategy and more about how much IRL time you're willing to spend menuing before every encounter to maximise income/efficiency. It simultaneously feels way too long and rushed at the same time. The parts of this game that actually make you think about things like tempo, action economy etc. are easily as good as people are saying it is, 93 on Metacritic etc. That is maybe 2% of the total playtime, and thats being generous. There is so much about the game that could have been executed so much better, and its kind of surreal how i barely see anyone talk about its shortcomings. This is not to mention the story, which wasn't necessarily bad per se but is *definitely* not even half as good as ppl are making it out to be. I have a rly strong feeling that the almost toxic levels of positivity ppl have about the story is because it makes them feel smart for liking a story ostensibly about politics
I know you said this was your first atlus game, but have you never played any jrpg before? Some of the stuff you mentioned as shortcomings are just staples of the JRPG genre such as having to do a lot of grinding, repetitive quest lines to allow for said grinding, political themes woven into the story… it certainly is prevalent in atlus games especially. And how can the level of positivity be toxic? If people enjoy the game they are within their right to praise it. Most of the positivity being voiced is coming from people who played previous atlus games and enjoy that style of game design. Just sounds like maybe you’re not into the Atlus game design or all that much into JRPGs… as most of your complaints would be applicable to a lot of their titles and other jrpg games.
Yeah. I didn't go slow, but I did take my time talking to the NPCs and exploring. I put in 113 hours. I could have easily done another 5 or 6 hours more if I wanted to go more into the archetype system.
@curtweston2156 I'm slower than many because I take my time reading the dialogues and all and I'm already 60 hours in while probably being halfway through or less. You'd need to skip all the dialogues just to end it in 50 hours, although: what's the point in playing an rpg then?
I'm gonna be honest this feels like a fantasy European themed Persona 5 they even used the same UI which they also used for Reload... Many people may defend and say it is based on all their games but from playing... It is mostly P5R... it seems like most of their games now uses Persona 5 Royal as a base or at least their mainline RPGs... I do like the Fantasy European theme... but it is sad they didn't fully voiced it more like P3R with an American accent Fairy and protagonist in the Eng dub.
I mean, if you look at the recent documentary about the game, in early stage they used the same UI calendar from P5 in the top left of the screen ahah.
Yeah this is my issue too. It has all of the same problems I've been criticizing Atlus for since Persona 4. The game is just a bit too derivative. Story wise it's not notably different in what it's trying to do than P5. Gameplay wise it's not the same as P5, but that's not saying a significant amount when it's actually just like every mainline SMT game. I'm exhausted with Press Turn it hasn't added anything new to the genre in 10 years at least. The thing I do like is the archetype system. Job systems are always fun and I think this one is decent enough. Its not doing anything too crazy, but it doesnt have to. The issue is that it's held back by other aspects of the game. Such as share slots being tied to the social link is a horrible choice as some jobs are awful without them and others don't really care. Speaking of the social system, it REALLY doesn't fit the game. These games' storytelling is always actively harmed by how they have to write around the characters actually developing so that it is saved for the social links. which brings me to my biggest issue, the writing is extremely amateur. The writers very clearly couldn't figure out how to actually bring the party from point A to point B so there are tons of plot points where the party does something based on nothing whIle they actively try to justify it. Such as the Heimsway quest line where they basically figured out immediately he was most likely innocent and there was already a much more logical candidate present, but they refused that angle because "they don't make assumptions" while they spend the rest of the arc pretending that it is not an assumption to disqualify the actual culprit because their position makes it hard to believe. There are tons of little things like this almost all said by Strohl and Hulkenberg. But it gets sooooo much worse later in the game. I think what Atlus needs is a real budget and probably something to bring in consistent money so they can actually sit down and put money and time into a project. They have the pieces of making something good, but the HD era has clearly been hard on their development process and while I can give them credit for making it work, my grace has run out and I find it hard to justify paying full price for games that have such gaping flaws.
@kyo1546 I mean, money will not solve writing problem. Falcom has a REALLY small budget if we compare to Atlus and Square Enix games and they still deliver fantastic games/story.
@Terranigma23 Yeah I mean the writing problem can only be solved by changing the structure of the games imo. Its not that they don't have good ideas its that the characters are literally props that can only narrate their actions and morals because you're not allowed to think they can meaningfully change over the course of the story.
I loved this game and think the title of Masterpiece is deserved, but I don't think it surpasses Persona 5 as they apex of JRPGs. It instead reaches the heights of Persona 5, which is still high praise. I think Metaphor distilled what made Persona 5 great, down to what works best, and makes for a more streamlined experience that I, at times, enjoyed more than Persona 5. Story wise, it was brilliant, but Persona 5 edges it out slightly because the highs in Persona 5 surpass the highs in Metaphor, but both tell compelling well written stories.
When i got to mid gsme and all thise scenes, i imediatley wanted to restart lol like oh! Now i see how these flow together lol plus i was under level going into the last act lol
I don’t think so. Then again, I’m just at the point of dealing with the Mustari’s problems. Maybe physical, non mp consuming attacks become viable soon.
Honestly? I thought it was pretty underwhelming. This is what they’ve been cooking since they announced Re Fantasy all that time ago? Meh. I can’t go as far as call it bad, but it’s just a decent ROG that reuses a lot from Persona, mainline SMT’s press turn but somehow feels not well balanced, flat characters, boring fantasy setting, the story had potential but the writing felt shallow…I dunno. Just feels like everything should have been way better than it was.
“Finishing a 50 hour game” Me sitting here with a 110 hour total after beating every dungeon in 1 day and even skipping the last 10 days by resting before the final battle….. Am I a slow reader?
I was so dissapointed by the dungeons not only the few that there are but they're really unispired compared to P5. Its a great game but I think people are too caught on the hype to really see its flaws
I just finished the game. There were definitely somethings about the game that I didn't like and annoyed me. Overall good game but definitely not without critique. It was this criticism I have in mind that made me miss the persona 5 crew.
I am surprised how some people say they not feeling game and playing it to the end at same time. So maybe you like it a little bit or you just torture yourself?
I used 50 as an example just so it would apply to most JRPGs but yeah I think I ended up at like, 65 haha. Which is somehow still shorter than Persona 5, I think that one took 80.
@@Ianbits The credibility of this video is in the bin. Maybe you'll learn how to lie better next time to protect your ego. That's what you are, probably. From watching the video, I got a feeling that you were desperate to talk about video games so you asked for a cooperation with Noisy Pixel. This is more like about sharing your feelings rather than having an objective and professional analysis of the game because many of the things you said are subjective and sometimes factually incorrect.
I expected going in that this would be a tone deaf review that basically was a "Yes", but I highly agree with every criticism going through the game I feel pretty disconnected with the combat and job system and it almost makes me want to lower the difficulty because I just do not enjoy the combat at all that once you do enough side quests to over-level the mobs and can just walk by and kill trash mobs during the main story gives you a reprieve from the annoying FAR too long dungeons killing the same mobs and recolors or bigger versions of the same mobs. The weird thing for me is the story is the best part and I thought the story in persona 5 was the worst part and barely made it through
Gotta disagree. I think we’re still in the honeymoon phase and I fully believe this will be looked back on with either lukewarm reception or some negativity. I got tapped to review it for the outlet I write at and what started off as me being excited quickly turned. By hour 5, I was asking myself “oh, we’re really just doing Persona again, huh?” By the Dragon Temple, I found myself saying “oh, we’re doing EVERY Atlus trope again” and checked out. Game really falls flat on its face in several ways. The only place it doesn’t is in the battle system. It’s closest we will likely ever get to a Digital Devil sequel. But the most disappointing aspect is looking at the initial teasers and concept art, only to realize effectively none of that survived to the final release. They traded traditional fantasy for sci-fi fantasy and a gameplay structure that’s Persona 6 in all but name. It also does next to nothing with the framing device it made such a big deal out of. I wasn’t wanting a crossover, meta deconstruction of Atlus games. But if they’re gonnna go out of their way to outright copy Etrian Odyssey 1:1 in both a story twist and a full dungeon, they should have done something more interesting with it.
I feel like im the only one who fell out with this game, there are so many just dump parts. The whole joanna questline any your teamates support her i hated, you have to fight hiesmay even tho its abudentlly clear he was innocent. There was a part were you can "select" a scout, but you are forced to do it. The other two dialogue options give you excuses of why they cant do it, so why is it an option?! Your forced into so many dumb positions its really frustating.
It's my second favorite Atlus SMT/Persona + Spin offs title only behind SMT IV... and maaaaaybe Devil Survivor Overclocked. But it still has that weak writing characteristic to mainstream JRPGs that relies heavily on the suspension of disbelief (more than every other genre in gaming IMO) with characters and villains making dumb decisions and assumptions and being fooled by low effort plans, deus ex machina moments, in-universe rules being broken by the sudden addition of a new "magical" device (very akin to Harry Potter for example) and a few others. Still, the calendar system is great in Metaphor, the Archetype system somehow felt as deep and customizable as the mainline SMT games and the villain IMO is one of the best I've seen in JRPGs in quite some time, not for how he's written (he's okay) but how they manage to make you hate him because he's always one step ahead of you, he keeps coming back and he's always in control of his emotions and the situation. He's the kind of villain that, in a more well written and "serious" work, would've managed to kill like 4 of the Followers and destroyed a city. He almost makes you feel like the stakes are high but then when you beat the game you realize that "yea.. this isn't that kind of game". Last but not least, Alonzo's quest is one of the best things about the game, it is THAT good. All in all, I'd say for a modern mainstream JRPG, it's a 9.5/10.
I liked it, but I didnt love it. I'd give it a solid 8/10. While they do some tweaking and make slight improvements on the Persona formula, ultimately I feel the game is bogged down by its play-it-safe approach to the game design and story. The game doesn't take any risks or tries anything new or interesting. Its basically if Final Fantasy was a Persona game.
Valuable voice. I often worry that opinions and reviews can get swept up in the release hype of a game. I like this kind of video as a supplement to a review to provide a more balance. Thank you for taking the time to make it.
I love the game so much. I’m at the end, and my only complaint is how the ending is dragging on. I love long games - the longer the better. Just hate when they say it’s the final battle and there’s like 2+ full mandatory dungeons and multiple boss battles to go. I was preparing to wind down and it just keeps going and going. Still love it all, though.
I felt like that a little bit just because of the anxiousness I kept feeling thinking it was coming. But when it comes, it comes lol I was honestly appreciative that I had multiple chances to prepare when it finally came because I needed it, and I saw the fruits of all the preparation they allowed at the end.
I agree with the ending dragging on. I ran out of stuff to do as well, and the game needed a fast forward to final date kind of option. Great game, just pacing at the end is off.
Good looking out. Do they give you the “Hey dumb dumb this is the end so be ready” message so I don’t jump in without enough time in my real life
@@adaytorememberfan121 Yeah they'll let you know. It'll never catch you by surprise. They give plenty of time to be ready lol
@@Celastrida23I appreciate that the game gives you a good amount of leeway to complete everything you need to do before the ending, even if it means some dead days at the end.
It's not fun in the earlier Persona games where the schedule was so tight that you basically had to use a guide to do everything in one playthrough. The Metaphor approach is far better.
I'mma save you all 20 minutes....yes. Yes it is.
It’s not about the 20 minutes. It’s about sharing more insight into a game after release. Watch it while you do your dishes
@@NoisyPixelNews it's a joke. I'm subscribed to you why would I deprive others of watching your content?
Oh, I didn’t take it personally. Text and context don’t always mesh. Just in case others read the comment. I think during the drafts and edits I listened to it like a podcast lol - Azario
@@andredevarie1What was the point of all this?
Also people take jokes differently I didn't get it either besides you saying it's good?
Your comment was completely out of context.
I mean, I've already beat it, so I know it's a masterpiece
Would absolutely love more videos like this. Always interesting seeing how public reception changes after the buzz of a game subsides.
Predictable isn't always a bad thing, early game spoilers below:
Yeah, Grius's death flags were so loud I was saying all it was missing was: "2 days away from retirement", but it still needed to light the fire under the first 3 characters to get them going. I also don't think lazy is predictable. Lazy would've been if the protagonist reacted to Grius's death, and reacted as: "oh that guy", but the death sticks with the characters for a long long while afterwards even outside of Maria's bond story.
They kinda were, but the scene it's self was good. I will admit I did not see it coming because Maria. Whoch leads to a sad story lol
@michaelhowell2809 I am shocked that it would've worked if it wasn't for the king itself, which adds to the awful irony of Grius fighting in his name.
Once Grius only got an archetype via sharing, I suspected he was going to die, when his daughter was revealed AND ESPECIALLY after her friendship Unlocked Healer archetype, I could 100% tell he was going to die.
Idk it just kinda sucked that the king’s protection magic was waved off by Louis himself in the final act . Grius death would have been cooler if Louis turned him into a human .
@@denzelromero4796 dude, could you spoiler the post? (just write spoilers, and skip a few paragraphs), I am still only 30h in.
@@vcom741 > I am shocked that it would've worked if it wasn't for the king itself, which adds to the awful irony of Grius fighting in his name.
I'm not so sure it would have. Louis is shown as quite tough to kill in later cutscenes, and Zorba was nearby and could have set up an undead distraction and then easily healed Louis' wounds. So Grius would also need to be lucky/skillful enough to make a wound that Zorba doesn't know how to heal before Louis actually dies from it.
Such a great video. Loved to see these topics tackled here at noisy pixel. Hopefully we get more content like this.
Thank you for the kind words!
I think it is, it also helped me notice some fun intersections in other games. Was playing FF stranger of paradise and they had a line about Chaos being the anxiety that lies in our hearts.
The fantasy setting also pulls in some themes / tropes you find in Shield Hero / isekai anime’s, and also Gundam (especially Unicorn Gundam) about the power of possibility. I think Metaphor executes these fantasy themes epically
Was looking at Albrecht Durer’s lithograph print of Melancholia and they def were probably inspired by this too.
Also this whole game - archetypes, the story etc is the Hero’s journey from Joseph Campbell/ Bill Moyers book A hero with a Thousand faces
I love the anxiety part, really hit home how they tied it for something positive
Excellent review, deserves way more views. Concise and to the point but at the same time with a well written script. Too many so called reviews are either unopinionated feature lists that you used to find on the back of the box or they’re the rambling of someone 10h into the game.
This probably has my favorite implementation of a class system, but hearing the problems you had with it makes sense. Its tight but still flexible balance in proportion to every enemy you face feels nearly perfect to me. Everything serves its intended purpose and is always designed around such. I usually hate switching around classes often just to take some skills from it or optimize matchups, but the way the game gives you information and the ease of use made it the most fun I've had with this kind of system, especially when I never felt the need to pull up guides. It was almost shocking how consistently engaging hard felt with the things it asks of the player.
Also I think you're a bit mistaken with your elementalist and royal summoner comparison. The royal classes are character exclusive, much harder to unlock and cannot be inherited from so naturally a good amount of them are simply better than the normal ones.
I loved Metaphor and the Persona games. I’ve put over 100 hours each into Metaphor, and Persona 3/4/5 across their various versions. And while Metaphor will be vying for a spot in my own top 5 if not top 3 games this year, I do have some critiques I’ve been writing up of my own:
1. I also had the same take on some of the archetype issues you pointed out. I would also add/emphasize that the late game/Royal archetypes require certain classes outside of their line to unlock (like the mages for Hulkenburg or commanders for Strohl etc.) so the game points you towards those classes, further hindering experimentation especially in the mid game when resources are still kinda tight. Would like to see them instead require options or number of classes needed to unlock to progress instead of shoehorning builds. To that end, would also love to see the ability to unlock skill fusion instead of just inheritance to further add to player customization and experimentation - something like that could be really cool too
2. Story is mostly predicatable as you say but to me the larger issue is the imbalance of show vs. tell. Lotssss of exposition where the characters explain the story more than the events of the narrative themselves being self evident in how they unfold and exemplify the themes on the screen. Louis and the Eldan village chief in particular spending a lottttt of time TELLING you the story and those long exposition dumps started to grind on me
3. I wish the party interactions were less hub and spoke. It’s always a follower and the protagonist. Especially for party members, I would like to see the devs level up the social interactions to be more about different types of interpersonal interactions and not just MC plus one all the time
4. Some more dungeon variety would be really nice and I don’t just mean visually. The worm thing? Most memorable dungeon by far for me and it created an actual sense of urgency
5. Quality of life and ACCESSIBILITY. Yes everyone wants full voice acting because it helps realize the characters more, but it’s also an accessibility thing for blind/low vision or cognitive players (ex: dyslexia) which is something metaphor sorely lacks. Even basic accessibility features like larger text sizes or the ability to zoom in on the map are missing here and I would really hope to see them do better. Also I could be misremembering but I don’t think you can remap controls on console. I have some other quality of life nitpicks (like saving equipment loadouts would be clutch since every time you switch classes it defaults to highest attack/defense gear regardless of what buffs/effects you’re prioritizing)
Enjoyed the video! Long response, apologies there, but wanted to contribute :)
No need to apologize! I agree with most of what you said.
For 3, that's definitely a major thing I'd like to see added. Persona 3 Reload spoils you in that context I think, there's tons of stuff with multiple characters interacting. Metaphor is sparse in that stuff by comparison.
Dungeon variety would be great and I think kind of links back to how few main dungeons there were. I'd care less that most of the side dungeons were pretty basic if there were 2 or 3 more unique main dungeons with specific mechanics in the vein of the Persona 5 dungeons.
Adding on to that, at least when the game released on PC there was no anti-aliasing and I had to download a mod specifically to remove the speed lines when you're sprinting, because you're ALWAYS sprinting and it ruins the otherwise awesome environmental design. Definitely a lot of little stuff like accessibility and options slipped through the cracks, I hope that's something they add with updates.
@ I remember hearing about the speed lines stuff! On console too some frame rate issues too that PS5 Pro supposedly helps but shouldn’t need that level of hardware to stabilize this game’s performance. Again a great game, and I don’t want the memes about Atlus re releases to pop off, but there are definitely some things they could tweak in a next release of the game (looking at you, Switch successor…)
13:44 you’re comparing an elite Archetype to a royal Archetype
Elite classes are the final universal version of a class
Royal is meant to be the pinnacle of a specific character’s abilities and are as such harder to get, more expensive and of course stronger
If you actually compare elementalist to Devil Summoner, the elite archetype, you find that any AOE non synthesis magic is medium damage and it’s a mixed class with strength based abilities focused on sheer coverage and utility above damage which elementalist trades some utility for heavy magic
That’s why you see a difference, you’re comparing apples to oranges, or rather a flaming sword to a lightsaber, one is more powerful because it’s in another league
11:31 I REALLY disagree here. I understand where you're coming from, in theory this means that you can stay as one class forever (or that you're encouraged too) and not have to try other class but I LOVED this. I hated in games with job systems where once you max out the job, you HAVE to swap to something else or you're wasting job points. Now I'm playing a job that may not be as good as the previous job (at least till its leveled a bit) and it feels so discouraging to have a weird backwards progress loop. I loved this system a lot cause now I can swap to that next job when I'm ready for it, or when I feel like it will be useful. I think this allows so much more control and lets you use what your comfortable with till you're ready to try something else out. Plus if there are characters where I'm not sure what job I want them to be, so now I can save that EXP for later vs wasting it on something I'm not sure of. I really think seeing this as a negative is kind of narrow minded when imo when it has more benefits and QoL there . I don't think having this is discouraging player customization, in fact the opposite.
Yeah, it's fantastic to be able to bank XP and use it when you are having trouble with a boss / area, and need to raise a new Archetype quickly to help counter it
I get what you're saying, but there is OBJECTIVELY something wrong with the system. He didn't talk about it in his videos, but there are objectively better classes for fighting in the overworld, where fighting animations are immensely shorter/quicker than others. These do infact matter when you're fighting enemies with quick attacks (the skeletons). This game tries to provide variety, but these aspects get in the way of player choice. This is an objective flaw. Whether you want to play as just one or a few classes is your choice, but it shouldn't be because you're forced to, but rather you want to. These flaws prevent that.
@@TheMirksta An issue with this is, the banked exp could go to a different characters progression. It does open up for player choice, but it takes away from other character's progression if not planned well. This probably should be addressed by having character specific "points", even have them interchangeable. But the way it is now, it's flawed.
Absolutely great idea for a video. Very smart. So easy to get yourself caught up in the hype of a game while you’re playing.
I just finished my first playthrough last night. 155 hours in. That's the most I've ever put into any game in my life lol what a journey it was. It's my favorite game of 2024 so far.
My wife and I finished this game a couple of days ago, and we both had a fantastic talk about anxiety, fear and hope and yeah, while I don't think Metaphor quite hits the heights of the modern Persona games, it also doesn't have any of its lows. It is definitely my favorite JRPG this year, which is saying a lot considering the year this genre has had.
Also, this was a really awesome video and I would love to see more things like this going forward.
Appreciate it! I think not hitting the highs but not hitting the lows is definitely a good way to describe it. Look forward to doing more videos like this.
Better than persona 3 reload?
@@verdokaspt I think so, yes. I like P3 Reload a lot, but I'm also a bit saddened by how 'frictionless' it is. That said, I am a sicko who genuinely enjoyed how rough around the edges the original game was and I think the remake loses a lot of what makes the Original/Fes special.
Great video! I finished the game last night, totally my GoTY. Totally realized I’ve missed a lot of finer details after watch your video. Great to know for new game plus!
Finishing a 20 min Ian video can be inherently emotional. The journey I took on his channel stuck with me to this new channel. There's been other Ian videos in the past with objectively amazing editing that I ended up getting attached to what I have to assume is godly content creation. And so for me, especially as a super fan, I'm happy to see his video success in other channels. It can be tempting to declare his videos as masterpieces or all time greats based on that initial positive feeling I get after finishing a great video. And you know what, they are always masterpieces.
Your friendly whale friendo, Auto
🐋
This is sweet
Biggest issue by the end became lack of enemy variety (throw reused bosses in with this), and lack of unique music for many bosses and dungeons. I loved the game and had a blast with the combat system and time management aspect, but it felt a little underproduced compared to P5 in those aspects. I remember playing P5 for the first time and encountering entirely new enemy types and unique bosses in the final two palaces that helped to keep it fresh and push the game to the end, and this just didn’t have that.
Storywise it was still great, and even though it was predictable at times, a lot of the predictable stuff were cases I thought “I wonder if (insert thing) will happen. I bet it will. That would be cool.” and then it did happen and it was cool.
Overall it doesn’t quite hit the same level of quality as P5 did for me, but it felt well worth my time.
I think it’s worth considering that Persona 5 benefits from decades of work regarding demons, and have hundreds of well-tested designs to choose from while adding just a few more. This is Atlus trying to create something beyond that shared universe.
Combat has more depth as it’s to be expected from a press-turn variety but it won’t quite reach SMT V levels as it isn’t the same level of priority.
I only wish Metaphor would break away even more from Persona to be more its own thing. I think it went halfway only.
I think it’s a great game but I’m itching for something as different as Catherine again from Atlus.
I still loved the game even if I prefer Persona 3 Reload and Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance more this year.
This is a great video idea and I hope you do more like this.
Spoilers: Dragon Age The Veilguard is next :X
Appreciate it! Planning on doing one for Dragon Age and then hopefully more in the future!
I like the new contributor. It's refreshing to hear someone point out that new games actually have flaws. Almost every review for every new popular game is just Something Something MASTERPEICE!!!
I will wait for the eventual update to this game. There's just no reason to buy Altus games at launch, when you know a better version is two years away.
Also, I do wish newer RPGs would be shorter. It's hard to justify playing P5R, P3R, or Metaphor, when you could also play final fantasy 6,7,9 and maybe even 10 in the same amount of time.
Glad you enjoyed it!
don't know if we'll get that, the studio already went on to say that they're moving away from that and moving towards DLC when they want to add content
@@RedBull528really hope so. It’s depressingly peak capitalism when they release the same game with some new content and QOL improvements and expect us to pay full price again. Looking at you, too, Pokémon (Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, …)
Refreshing to see a review of this game that doesn't come off as super fanboyish and can actually say something of substance that's not just "it's peak".
Great video and welcome, Ian! I love the idea of this type of video, so I greatly appreciate it.
Personally I’ll probably skip this, as I’m not a fan of the “Persona work,” but hope to see more videos like this from you!
We’ll keep Ian around, for sure :)
Please continue with this series. I enjoy this idea of revisiting these titles after the hype died down.
Great video
I’m legit still playing it about to beat NG+ and probably start another new playthrough 😅
There’s a surprising amount to do if you want to 100% the game. Getting every follower all the archetypes takes quite a bit of time. I really really hope we get some DLC or additional content eventually. The world and characters they built are way too charming and unique to just be a one off
I'm nearing the end, and it's easily my GOTY. I agree with what you said about the flaws in the combat system, and I wonder if that's to encourage playing on a higher difficulty for New Game + (if there is one). Overall, it's a fantastic game.
how do you all beat the game in 50 hours I'm at 75 and still got a month left, possibly more
Lore skippers and guide watchers. They are playing the game to beat it not to enjoy it.
a friend of mine beat the game in about 70 and he's an avid spacebarrer, reads faster than he can react.
Took me 100H almost on the dot to finish the game and I'm a fast reader, though I think I did pretty much everything
@@ForTheViolence Seriously lmao, even without working for and completing the dragon trials, I was at 82 hours by the final cutscene.
In terms of your thoughts on class balance, I personally don't agree with them. I think your thoughts on the Mage class in particular didn't really make sense. The Royal classes in general and the Royal Summoner class in particular are designed as main classes. For one, they are stronger at base than Elite archetypes in the same way that Elite archetypes are stronger than their predecessor archetypes. But in addition to that, Royal archetypes (and the Summoner line in general) do not have inheritable skills, meaning that you *must* have that class as a main in order to use them.
In addition, the Summoner class line is balanced around the fact that it gets no buffing passives at default and therefore must use all of their inheritance slots to get the strong passives the other classes offer. This is in contrast to the Mage line, which contains basically all of the passives and support skills for magic attackers. Besides that, the Mage archetypes' synergy skills are extremely powerful, and they have even more passives to support their use. In the end game, I moved the MC off of his Royal archetype and basically just used the Elementalist because I could apply Fire weakness, use Hyper to buff my next move, then use Meteopheor with the passive that boosts synthesis damage. This is even more strong because Meteopheor is tied with Peerless Stonecleaver and the Elementalist's own Skyfall Bolts for highest single attack damage in the game. The only higher is Royal Sword, and that is Almighty so it cannot refund turn icons.
Also, the point about Mastered classes having 1-to-1 XP retention is understandable, but as someone who has played many games without that feature, it can make it so that you feel like you *have* to swap off the powerful classes you like using, reducing your options in other ways. Like, I appreciate that I can keep using the Seeker even though it is maxed without throwing away XP, or I can keep a character on a mastered class until I can level up the next class past the level 1 hump when it has few skills.
Royal Sword can refund icons; it's a physical almighty move and can crit.
@TheMirksta True, sorry I meant it isn't guaranteed to return icons.
My only gripe with metaphor is with the amount of scenes that didn't get voice acting.
Really nice video, I love the idea of reassessing recent releases after the hype has subsided. More please!
Thank you!
The follower stories were so good. I cried a lot , and got surprisded a fair. It too. Plus they felt natural to the over all story, very happy with them
I will raise an objection to the Royal Summoner's abilities being objectively better than single target spells. When fighting multiple enemies, an aoe spell can hit repel/blocks for some enemy types and end your turn. However, it is true that the Mage tier 3 classes arrive too late. By that time, you have Emerald Vortex on the main character and the masked dancer can cause one time weaknesses, so the whole 'multiple elements' thing is not necessary.
welcome to the gang ianbits!
Glad to be here!
This game is not 50 hours, as I'm currently 50 hours in and only seems halfway there.
These people rush a lot
Thanks for the heads up about exp farming for classes. This is the first I'd heard of it. Systems like that are frustrating when you realize how they work because you initially feel like you've found an exploit, so you gleefully exploit it, then realize you spent the bulk of your time farming XP on a class or character that you wanted to move on from in order to max out the one that you did want to play. It's always weird and unsatisfying. I'll keep an eye out for ways I can avoid having to do that when I give the game a shot.
Yeah it's not game ruining or anything but expect it to be a slow progression. My thought was that it'd start slow and get faster once you got later in the game but it sort of stayed slow the whole way. You can go pretty quick in the endgame but the way to do it is leaving all 3 bench characters on a maxed class so you can feed the characters you're actually using which felt...off. Like I was resigning those guys to a permanent benching.
@@Ianbits That's giving me flashbacks of the two days I spent leveling the valkyrie profile 2 einherjar just so I could retire them and finally use their parting gift XP to make my main characters competitive. Neat idea, but doing it was awful and the game was balanced around the assumption the player would do it.
@@IanbitsI was swapping all the characters in and out of my party until the end and I had little issue unlocking and maxing everyone's Royal Archetypes, even with some detours into non-essential archetypes earlier in the game. This is also with little to no grinding on hard mode. (Which reduces exp.) So I just don't think it was much of an issue in my experience.
One of the best things about the way leveling works in this game is that I rarely felt trapped on an archetype I didn't want to use, because using a maxed archetype still got you exp. In other games like this I would so often have to use something I didn't really want to use just to make sure I was optimizing my exp gain, but here I can just use my favorite classes and use the extra exp items to level whatever I want.
little tip for leveling other archetypes, play as one youve already mastered and start using the fruits. you get instead of archetype levels. I did that and i could max out an archetype for each character in maybe an hour, probably less time than that if you have your whole party set to a mastered archetype. you end up getting 5-10 fruits every battle and you only need about 50 or so to max out any other given archetype. i maxed out every archetype for every character just about in my 2nd playthrough.
just realized you made the same point right after i posted this lol
What's your favorite sauce to eat fries with and why is it mango curry?
You underestimate how basic I am. I just rock ketchup
I like the re-visited concept, and I spent 100 hours into Metaphor. As someone who is a big Persona fan as well, I enjoyed it for the experience and hope they take this new successful IP in a new direction. There will most probably be a re-release in true Atlus fashion that will definitely improve the game that could then make it more comparable to P5R imo. I thought it was a great 8.75/10 experience but don't really have a desire to play it again or re-explore the world once I did everything. The "side content" felt much more recommended main content because it was responsible for most the game's depth and fun for me. So after maxing out Bonds, doing all the hard bosses and dungeons, and acquiring all Archetypes I felt like i enjoyed this catered storytelling and systems but didn't feel as challenged or invested as a player. Excited for the franchise and the inevitable re-release though (which is hopefully DLC and not a whole other full price game).
This game definitely does not stick the landing. It starts off incredible, but by the last third of the game, it kinda goes all over the place. Contrived plot twists, unforeshadowed villains, offscreen death of incredibly important characters, the insane amount of days you get at the end of the game.
Although it started off well, by the end of the game I was so bored and annoyed by the lackluster writing that I just wanted to get it over with.
I love the boss battle music it's so epic, been humming that song all day.
You guys are already revisiting it?? I haven't even finished the game yet and I got it day one!!
Starts at 4:00
The previous time is spent telling you essentially just what's in the video title "In this video, I ask is it as good?" and a recap of the beginning plot, which most of you already know.
The goal is to keep some things accessible for people who haven't played - they can follow some of my points when I talk about the story a bit easier with the setup.
The only thing that I really don’t like are the constantly moving text boxes, I really wish I could turn off all the flashing and moving of the text boxes because it is really distracting, essentially for someone with adhd :p I really wish they would have build in an option to turn off the moving text boxes.
Yeah having to look at a 3 fps box for 150 hours was quite annoying
What blew my mind is what series this game is actually a part of.
I believe i’m almost towards the end of the game myself and i do love the game. My major negative though is the long dialogue moments. Sometimes it feels like a full hour will go by of me just sitting there just WAITING to want to get into a dungeon and battle but instead i’m spending so much time talking for LONG period of times. Overall, love this brand new IP but definitely looking forward to major improvements for future games within this franchise but game of the year for me is 100% FF7 Rebirth. But wow, so many amazing games that came out within the last few years! 👏🏼⭐️
For the most part the game was great, but it kind of botched the message in the third act with the big narrative reveal, which was kind of ironic in the sense that it turned a story from being anti-institution and pro-democracy to something else entirely. I think it's kind of folly to expect any actually subversive stories from a large scale corporation, but it was a kind of slight of hand narrative rug pull that was kind of amusing if it didn't make much of the late narrative kind of an eye-roll. This isn't that surprising, again, since Atlus games often get in their own way in the last leg.
The message and thematic elements were the same all throughout. Your interpretation and initial impressions are what changed. The game isn't about politics, it just uses political narrative elements to back up its core theme of escapism.
@@ianp5367 Mm, the game is about politics at its core, but not in the way that someone might think on-face. It's about the power of escapism and fantasy to shape and influence the world you live in now and provide motivation and the dream for a better world, which is explicitly a pretty political take, especially if you're well read on the historiography of fantasy.
The book (and More) are a sort of frame narrative for the diagetic message. That being said, the politics of the game world itself are absolutely related, and part and parcel, to the theme of using fantasy to move forward, and it's within that it stumbles because its political imagination is ironically limited.
From what I've seen, the 'hype' seems to be coming from people who were already excited for an Atlus title, and the 'negativity' is coming from folks riding the counter-culture bandwagon. Personally I'm in the middle on Atlus games. I like Persona, I don't like SMT, and I think Etrian Odyssey is fine. I personally loved Metaphor and also agree with nearly everything you've said here. At the end of the day... it's a JRPG. If the story makes you feel something you'll probably come away with a positive impression. The combat is going to either feel amazing or simply competent depending on how people feel about the press turn system, so the characters and messaging are what the game needs to pull off to stand out. It worked for me. It won't work for everybody.
I do wish more of the internet discourse was honest about these big ol games. I like videos like this one. Typical internet discussion seems to go, "I'm naming my children after this incredible game of the century" followed up by somebody saying "I tried to like this game but it's so -flat- and -generic- and -awful-!" I mean, c'mon. There's obviously a lotta love put into the game. The people who made it care. The mechanics work, even if it isn't always nailing the mark. At worst the game is competent. If it strikes an emotional connection with a person they'll probably come away remembering it for a long time.
The story is very unique and peculiar.
Because you are supposed to be killing Louis, but despite being a murderous scumbag, Louis makes sense on so many levels.
For example, Louis is for a true meritocracy. I think if he actually led the world, it would be working effectively.
Easily my favorite game of the year and possibly one of the BEST games i have ever played.
10/10, literally no complaints.
Amazing vid as someon who s half through the game i could not agree more with the author can we please have more vids like this one love the idea of analysis after first few weeks of hype.
That’s the idea :)
Glad you enjoyed it!
i think the combat would have been far more interesting if you could switch archetypes mid battle like you can switch personas
I learned about the max rank overleveling granting you 1000exp item just after I finished the game. This explains partly why I felt so underleveled and not able to level much, I switched to easy because of this. Is it ever explained in the game anywhere?
18:14 I don’t know what you’re smoking but I never predicted that more twist. Or the Shinjuku twist.
Video starts 10 mins in if you've played the game
There’s clearly cut content in the back half, specifically The Mage Academy. And I’d argue the first 2-3 dungeons are of higher quality than the rest of the game. The Sand Worm in particular. The Eupha dungeon goes on and on, and all of the dungeons after don’t quite hit the highs of the earlier ones.
The core foundation is solid but the game feels as if the devs ran out of time or budget to fully realize their vision. A prime example being the side quests. The rinse and repeat of the Dragon Towers was a bit of a slog. You’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all. Forden’s Council gets relegated to mere side characters that don’t really go anywhere. If a character gets a text portrait, I expect bigger prominence in the story.
And I’m of the opinion the game reveals its best songs in the first 3 hours. Save for maybe Eht Ria. The game is a firm 8 that could be relegated to classic status had it spent more time in the oven.
Revisiting a game after 0.1 millisecond when
Now there's an idea
I’m still in shock at the ending. Gonna cheese the super boss to get the plat in a few weeks
That last boss is absolutely insane, I had to fight the urge to turn the difficulty down. Didn't expect it to be that hard.
Y'all don't know how hard it's been not being able to play this game yet and hearing everyone talk about how good it is.
70 hrs in. The biggest reason why this game will become a classic is the in your face metaphor about current real world politics and social culture and how we’re basically devolving and we can still stop it
To me one of the flaws of the class system was as you said it didn't encourage you to experiment. The game has magic classes, but since they don't come from a party member the only really dedicated mage is Eupha. I realized about half way through the game that the characters are best kept as the class they come into the game with and just use level up items to give them extra passive abilities. Once they get their final special class it basically encourages you to build a team with those classes anyway. It's just weird that for a class lines like Mage and Healer you probably won't be using them in your party except maybe to steal an ability or two from them.
Also the game send all kinds of interesting accessories your way, but the moment you get the one that lets you do combo attacks and only spend one turn icon, there really is no going back. I also didn't understand the use of the Persona Master job. Why do you need versatility when versatility is build into the very design of the class system? Why do I want Juna to be able to use physical skills when I can just bring a physical character?
In the end it does mean the game can be easily planned for and broken once you realize it's limitations. If I ever do a second playthrough I will be much stronger since I'll never have any kind of wonky class mix.
It better win Game of the Year
For you, 1wayroad, anything :)
In our hearts yes but IRL, it won't because it's all rigged for the undeserving games.
Tough competitiom
@@user-ko5ul7yi1x I honestly think wukong deserves it
Even tho yes
My heart is with metaphor
@@creeppyez Haven't played that yet but I heard good news about it just like Stellar Blade. Eastern devs are kicking asses.
I like the characters in P5 more and I was more invested in that grounded story (well, up until the ending at least), they really took time to build up your scooby gang in P5 and it paid off. I like the art style/soundtrack/dungeon design better in p5 too (for the most part). Still solid but not a masterclass.
only thing i didnt like is the calendar system, i think it worked in the ps2 era and its limitations, but now it just makes the game tedious at times
Agreed at least let us do fights at night
@@joseph2000117 it should just do a time skip after certain criteria is met. It completely removes de FOMO and makes the gameplay smoother, new game plus would benefit a lot from this
Yeah it is woerd to load up a save because you did something wrong the night before.... like going to the bathroom for luck lmao
I thought p5 was Atlus' peak and p6 would be a very tall order. Then this came out and I was floored by it. Now p6 is an even more taller order. Atlus is proving that you don't need ultra-realistic graphics and turn-based systems still and will work if done right. So much boldness in this game that it's inspiring. Been a very long while since I enjoyed one.
Combat lacking its own originality and using the standard SMT press turn system with a job system is honestly not a bad thing. I love job systems and press turn was already my favourite combat system. They really didn't need to do anything else with that format, it's already exactly what I wanted there, even if it does have its own flaws.
Rebirth is my RPG of the year. A stunning game
Rebirth is not an rpg it’s an assassins creed like action game with the Final Fantasy label on it.
@HyruleStreams and what defines an RPG? Being turn based? Theres plenty of action RPGs out there. Rebirth was amazing, a next gen experience which Metaphor isnt. Better story and music too, Metaphor is just another mid RPG.
@ A real Jrpg player loves turned based battles
@@HyruleStreams real jrpg player can play with any combat system
@davidgriffin7235 the ff7 story now is convoluted. I think it's better in visuals but this is hands down the better story teller. IDK Fight me
Peak🔥 but
It also feels like the game is short, for me atleast.
Will play smt v vengeance next.
A game that is best when thought of as the gesalt of all of its parts. However, the whole game wears out its welcome by the late-game and i wish there was more gameplay oomph that i have trouble articulating. I can see and understand why people wouldnt like it but i think this is the most 9/10 game ive ever played in my life, not a masterpiece, but pretty good all things considered
i fell in love with it after the first dungeon (my first atlus game) but as the game drags on it starts running out of new mechanics to show you, starts literally repeating entire side quest zones ad nauseum and the need for resource management goes out the window. Skill expression becomes less about strategy and more about how much IRL time you're willing to spend menuing before every encounter to maximise income/efficiency. It simultaneously feels way too long and rushed at the same time.
The parts of this game that actually make you think about things like tempo, action economy etc. are easily as good as people are saying it is, 93 on Metacritic etc. That is maybe 2% of the total playtime, and thats being generous. There is so much about the game that could have been executed so much better, and its kind of surreal how i barely see anyone talk about its shortcomings.
This is not to mention the story, which wasn't necessarily bad per se but is *definitely* not even half as good as ppl are making it out to be. I have a rly strong feeling that the almost toxic levels of positivity ppl have about the story is because it makes them feel smart for liking a story ostensibly about politics
I know you said this was your first atlus game, but have you never played any jrpg before? Some of the stuff you mentioned as shortcomings are just staples of the JRPG genre such as having to do a lot of grinding, repetitive quest lines to allow for said grinding, political themes woven into the story… it certainly is prevalent in atlus games especially.
And how can the level of positivity be toxic? If people enjoy the game they are within their right to praise it. Most of the positivity being voiced is coming from people who played previous atlus games and enjoy that style of game design.
Just sounds like maybe you’re not into the Atlus game design or all that much into JRPGs… as most of your complaints would be applicable to a lot of their titles and other jrpg games.
50 hours, my ass!...I played for 85 hours and was still grossly underleveled for the final boss
I sincerely wonder how do people beat this game in 50 hours. 🤷🏻
Yeah. I didn't go slow, but I did take my time talking to the NPCs and exploring. I put in 113 hours. I could have easily done another 5 or 6 hours more if I wanted to go more into the archetype system.
@curtweston2156 I'm slower than many because I take my time reading the dialogues and all and I'm already 60 hours in while probably being halfway through or less. You'd need to skip all the dialogues just to end it in 50 hours, although: what's the point in playing an rpg then?
I'm gonna be honest this feels like a fantasy European themed Persona 5 they even used the same UI which they also used for Reload...
Many people may defend and say it is based on all their games but from playing... It is mostly P5R... it seems like most of their games now uses Persona 5 Royal as a base or at least their mainline RPGs... I do like the Fantasy European theme... but it is sad they didn't fully voiced it more like P3R with an American accent Fairy and protagonist in the Eng dub.
This is what this series is going to be about, highlighting more opinions after gamers AND reviewers played it and have opinions to share. Thanks!
I mean, if you look at the recent documentary about the game, in early stage they used the same UI calendar from P5 in the top left of the screen ahah.
Yeah this is my issue too. It has all of the same problems I've been criticizing Atlus for since Persona 4. The game is just a bit too derivative.
Story wise it's not notably different in what it's trying to do than P5. Gameplay wise it's not the same as P5, but that's not saying a significant amount when it's actually just like every mainline SMT game. I'm exhausted with Press Turn it hasn't added anything new to the genre in 10 years at least.
The thing I do like is the archetype system. Job systems are always fun and I think this one is decent enough. Its not doing anything too crazy, but it doesnt have to. The issue is that it's held back by other aspects of the game. Such as share slots being tied to the social link is a horrible choice as some jobs are awful without them and others don't really care.
Speaking of the social system, it REALLY doesn't fit the game. These games' storytelling is always actively harmed by how they have to write around the characters actually developing so that it is saved for the social links.
which brings me to my biggest issue, the writing is extremely amateur. The writers very clearly couldn't figure out how to actually bring the party from point A to point B so there are tons of plot points where the party does something based on nothing whIle they actively try to justify it. Such as the Heimsway quest line where they basically figured out immediately he was most likely innocent and there was already a much more logical candidate present, but they refused that angle because "they don't make assumptions" while they spend the rest of the arc pretending that it is not an assumption to disqualify the actual culprit because their position makes it hard to believe.
There are tons of little things like this almost all said by Strohl and Hulkenberg. But it gets sooooo much worse later in the game.
I think what Atlus needs is a real budget and probably something to bring in consistent money so they can actually sit down and put money and time into a project. They have the pieces of making something good, but the HD era has clearly been hard on their development process and while I can give them credit for making it work, my grace has run out and I find it hard to justify paying full price for games that have such gaping flaws.
@kyo1546 I mean, money will not solve writing problem. Falcom has a REALLY small budget if we compare to Atlus and Square Enix games and they still deliver fantastic games/story.
@Terranigma23 Yeah I mean the writing problem can only be solved by changing the structure of the games imo. Its not that they don't have good ideas its that the characters are literally props that can only narrate their actions and morals because you're not allowed to think they can meaningfully change over the course of the story.
I loved this game and think the title of Masterpiece is deserved, but I don't think it surpasses Persona 5 as they apex of JRPGs. It instead reaches the heights of Persona 5, which is still high praise. I think Metaphor distilled what made Persona 5 great, down to what works best, and makes for a more streamlined experience that I, at times, enjoyed more than Persona 5. Story wise, it was brilliant, but Persona 5 edges it out slightly because the highs in Persona 5 surpass the highs in Metaphor, but both tell compelling well written stories.
50hours? How do yall finish games so quickly
When i got to mid gsme and all thise scenes, i imediatley wanted to restart lol like oh! Now i see how these flow together lol plus i was under level going into the last act lol
It took me 120 and loved it.
Oh yes Atlus ain't messing around with this one
One month isn't ling enough some people are still playing it like me.
I don’t think so. Then again, I’m just at the point of dealing with the Mustari’s problems. Maybe physical, non mp consuming attacks become viable soon.
Boosteroid's range of games keeps me entertained for hours
My only complaint
There are so many sections where you are just watching the game for 30 mins at a time
Love it need to get back in and play but sooo many games sooo little time
It incredible but it really needs its Royal (or DLC)
i strongly agree with you, just like P5 needed an enhanced version, this game also needs it, and it will be perfect
Honestly? I thought it was pretty underwhelming. This is what they’ve been cooking since they announced Re Fantasy all that time ago? Meh. I can’t go as far as call it bad, but it’s just a decent ROG that reuses a lot from Persona, mainline SMT’s press turn but somehow feels not well balanced, flat characters, boring fantasy setting, the story had potential but the writing felt shallow…I dunno. Just feels like everything should have been way better than it was.
Boosteroid is a must-have for any serious gamer
Wait for definitive not upgradable edition. I already burned myself with dq11, persona v and smtv.
Short answer yes longer answer yes but the calendar could have been a week shorter and it probably would have worked better
“Finishing a 50 hour game”
Me sitting here with a 110 hour total after beating every dungeon in 1 day and even skipping the last 10 days by resting before the final battle…..
Am I a slow reader?
Video just started "finishing a 50hr game". *Looks at my game time :130~ ish hrs. Lol
Certainly the best i have played this year, personal GOTY, Rebirth is probably better but it aint on PC. Now just to see how DQ3 remake turns out.
I was so dissapointed by the dungeons not only the few that there are but they're really unispired compared to P5. Its a great game but I think people are too caught on the hype to really see its flaws
I just finished the game. There were definitely somethings about the game that I didn't like and annoyed me. Overall good game but definitely not without critique. It was this criticism I have in mind that made me miss the persona 5 crew.
I am surprised how some people say they not feeling game and playing it to the end at same time. So maybe you like it a little bit or you just torture yourself?
Sunk cost fallacy, perhaps.
excuse me mr ianbits heterochromia is AWESOME actually
Only 50 hours?
I used 50 as an example just so it would apply to most JRPGs but yeah I think I ended up at like, 65 haha. Which is somehow still shorter than Persona 5, I think that one took 80.
@@Ianbits The credibility of this video is in the bin. Maybe you'll learn how to lie better next time to protect your ego. That's what you are, probably. From watching the video, I got a feeling that you were desperate to talk about video games so you asked for a cooperation with Noisy Pixel. This is more like about sharing your feelings rather than having an objective and professional analysis of the game because many of the things you said are subjective and sometimes factually incorrect.
Good, bordline great but it would benefit from the royal or vengeance treatment.
Im right before Louise and probably wont finish 😅
I expected going in that this would be a tone deaf review that basically was a "Yes", but I highly agree with every criticism going through the game I feel pretty disconnected with the combat and job system and it almost makes me want to lower the difficulty because I just do not enjoy the combat at all that once you do enough side quests to over-level the mobs and can just walk by and kill trash mobs during the main story gives you a reprieve from the annoying FAR too long dungeons killing the same mobs and recolors or bigger versions of the same mobs. The weird thing for me is the story is the best part and I thought the story in persona 5 was the worst part and barely made it through
Gotta disagree. I think we’re still in the honeymoon phase and I fully believe this will be looked back on with either lukewarm reception or some negativity.
I got tapped to review it for the outlet I write at and what started off as me being excited quickly turned. By hour 5, I was asking myself “oh, we’re really just doing Persona again, huh?”
By the Dragon Temple, I found myself saying “oh, we’re doing EVERY Atlus trope again” and checked out. Game really falls flat on its face in several ways.
The only place it doesn’t is in the battle system. It’s closest we will likely ever get to a Digital Devil sequel.
But the most disappointing aspect is looking at the initial teasers and concept art, only to realize effectively none of that survived to the final release. They traded traditional fantasy for sci-fi fantasy and a gameplay structure that’s Persona 6 in all but name. It also does next to nothing with the framing device it made such a big deal out of.
I wasn’t wanting a crossover, meta deconstruction of Atlus games. But if they’re gonnna go out of their way to outright copy Etrian Odyssey 1:1 in both a story twist and a full dungeon, they should have done something more interesting with it.
I feel like im the only one who fell out with this game, there are so many just dump parts. The whole joanna questline any your teamates support her i hated, you have to fight hiesmay even tho its abudentlly clear he was innocent. There was a part were you can "select" a scout, but you are forced to do it. The other two dialogue options give you excuses of why they cant do it, so why is it an option?! Your forced into so many dumb positions its really frustating.
It's my second favorite Atlus SMT/Persona + Spin offs title only behind SMT IV... and maaaaaybe Devil Survivor Overclocked.
But it still has that weak writing characteristic to mainstream JRPGs that relies heavily on the suspension of disbelief (more than every other genre in gaming IMO) with characters and villains making dumb decisions and assumptions and being fooled by low effort plans, deus ex machina moments, in-universe rules being broken by the sudden addition of a new "magical" device (very akin to Harry Potter for example) and a few others.
Still, the calendar system is great in Metaphor, the Archetype system somehow felt as deep and customizable as the mainline SMT games and the villain IMO is one of the best I've seen in JRPGs in quite some time, not for how he's written (he's okay) but how they manage to make you hate him because he's always one step ahead of you, he keeps coming back and he's always in control of his emotions and the situation. He's the kind of villain that, in a more well written and "serious" work, would've managed to kill like 4 of the Followers and destroyed a city. He almost makes you feel like the stakes are high but then when you beat the game you realize that "yea.. this isn't that kind of game".
Last but not least, Alonzo's quest is one of the best things about the game, it is THAT good.
All in all, I'd say for a modern mainstream JRPG, it's a 9.5/10.
I liked it, but I didnt love it. I'd give it a solid 8/10. While they do some tweaking and make slight improvements on the Persona formula, ultimately I feel the game is bogged down by its play-it-safe approach to the game design and story. The game doesn't take any risks or tries anything new or interesting. Its basically if Final Fantasy was a Persona game.