imho the first "smart bike" thats a thing. the belt drive is massive. no more noise, no more dirt, no chain cleaning for a static home ride bike and the adjustability is everything you need and as simple as possible. the idea to have a belt drive cassette is absolutely massive.
Zwift not offering a belt drive version for their Hub and Ride was a massive miss, and I could not be happier to see Elite do the logical step by adding it. Awesome news.
As a new ZRide owner there's two features here I'd like, the Garmin mount and adjustable crank length, and one I'd love (belt drive). It doesn't compete directly with the ZRide given the price. I do really like that the "smart" part of the ZRide is essentially just the bar controller/levers, so it should be easy to replace (and potentially upgrade). Great to see more competition and innovation with smart bikes!
The Elite Square has got my interest. Really keen to see and hear your review. It certainly looks a better option than the Zwift bike . However, it all hangs on price and what you get. Thanks
The Zwift Ride intrigued me, but fell flat on many things I would want. This I might get a Gen 1 of this though. Looking forward to you doing a full hands on review of it after testing it out. They need to send you one asap.
Hi Ray, it's November! There is not much info out there yet for the square. Is it for real? Looking fwd. to more feedback on a more specific release date, purchase options a comparison with the swift bike and of course it's compatibility with other software
I’ve been using my avanti for the past couple of weeks. Seems to be working well so far, just need to get my head around how the bridge connections works. Power data seems okay but yet to run through the analyser and compare with pedal based PM but headline stats seem good. I’ll be very interested in your review.
When you test these trainers, please make sure to test them in COLD conditions too for power accuracy. I was burned this year with my Wahoo Core overreading my power in the realm of 30-40 watts in a cold environment.
I haven't seen many reviews on the Justo 2 over the original, but there's some great deals on the original... Would you say the WiFi for 200€ is worth it?? (I don't need the cassette or anything else)
I have the directo XR and it says to unplug it after use which is whatever and I do it lol but the cable that goes into the port is not grabbable on the thickened section, you have to yank it by the cord. I hope you’re able to grab it now with the avanti.
The square looks like it has a lot of the features that the Zwift Ride shoulda shipped with (belt drive, riser, adjustable cranks). But man is it ugly AF, looks more like a prototype than a finished product
Hey DC Rainmaker! I'm sorry if this off topic, but can you give us runners guidance on a treadmill? There are so many out there and everyone says to look for a commerical one, but I'm hoping that is not the case because they're insanely expensive. Since you do a lot of fitness tech, I figured this might be up your alley. Is there a reliable treadmill out there for your typical runner that isn't monstrously expensive?
As an Apple TV user I'm hopeful this will play well with this. Bummer it's being released near NOV, most North Americans start indoors right at that time.
Does no one at Zwift or Elite ride the trainer for more than 60 min in a go? Those seatposts are barbaric! :D Would also be nice if they had better options for mounting bottle cages on the frames.
There is so much to chose from today that it can be really hard to figure out what meets your requirements and your budget the best. I suppose the best value for money would still be to get a Wahoo KICKR CORE Zwift One and then, if you do not want to use your regular road bike, then get a cheap second hand road bike and use it permanently with the Zwift One.
@@elitecycling Now this is a big feature over the zwift cog. It's app agnostic and is a feature that's actually built into the trainer itself, not something that an app needs to implement.
@@elitecycling I plan on using Rouvy, so Zwift isn't my usecase: does your Justo 2 offer virtual shifting too? I'd love to buy a Justo 2 along with the virtual shifters used in the Square, so that I can use both in Rouvy. Either that, or using my Di2 shifters as controllers for virtual shifting... this latter option would be my absolute favourite.
Brake levers: They brake the trainer for a few seconds. Navigation keys: It all depends on what Zwift wants to do. At the moment they are not implemented, so you can't steer or interact with the software. - Steering. Implementation be easy since we used the same protocol of Sterzo Smart but Zwift does not recognise Square as a steering device. So Zwift would just have to update the Square to the list of steering devices like Steering and Rizer - Various keys. Zwift's protocol would be needed, but it is not known if or when it will be released.
This would look good if the front fork didn't connect to anything.. just floated like the wahoo bike. It looks horrible with front fork stand..... but, the belt drive and some of the additional features is pretty slick!
i still dont understand how it can work with any other trainer out there with virtual gearing, not only ERG Ray... Does it really work with any trainer?
Yes, it attaches basically like an 11sp cassette, so no different than swapping a casette on other trainers. And then on virtual shifting, they handle it via ANT+ FE-C (which every trainer supports), just like smart bikes do.
If the saddle can slide fore and aft it will throw off the geometry if too tall or short. Either it will become a pedal forward bike or the saddle maybe ahead of the cranks.
Surely there's a market for a really simple "frame" that can sit on a smart trainer without all the features that these have. I just cannot justify spending this kind of money. But I've considered buying a cheap frame just for my trainer. I just don't believe people only want super expensive gear. Everyone wonders why these companies are struggling, well maybe they should stop chasing the biggest margins, focusing on the same wealthy individuals that their rivals are already catering for.
I'm not sure they could have made it uglier if they tried. It would bother me to have that atrocity in my living room, especially in a day and age of pretty bikes with full cable integration and vanity everything.
Just them.My first trainer was Wahoo and had some issues past my warranty and was very helpful.Ended up selling the unit as i wasnt using it as much.I brought the Drivo unit and after a couple of years use it was very noisy.I did email Elite on numerous occasions but didnt get a response back.Ive got a Jetblack now. 👍
imho the first "smart bike" thats a thing.
the belt drive is massive. no more noise, no more dirt, no chain cleaning for a static home ride bike and the adjustability is everything you need and as simple as possible. the idea to have a belt drive cassette is absolutely massive.
Also no more chain lube drying out when the hometrainer is setup in your ambient temperature room/livingroom!
Agreed
Zwift not offering a belt drive version for their Hub and Ride was a massive miss, and I could not be happier to see Elite do the logical step by adding it. Awesome news.
But considering thethat with the Trainer unit it is not more affordable then Wahoo Bike Ride, for example. Which is one unit belt drive smart bike
@@kennethdarlington it will likely come out to be 500 less than the kickr bike shift
The Justo and Avanti are giving me home projector vibes with that design! Love the belt drive on the Square.
God damn it Ray, I was just about to head to work.
Welcome back to Frankfurt. Great to have you back in town and thanks for the great coverage 😊
I needed more sausage and pretzels in my life. :)
As a new ZRide owner there's two features here I'd like, the Garmin mount and adjustable crank length, and one I'd love (belt drive). It doesn't compete directly with the ZRide given the price. I do really like that the "smart" part of the ZRide is essentially just the bar controller/levers, so it should be easy to replace (and potentially upgrade). Great to see more competition and innovation with smart bikes!
That's the first smart bike I've seen that appears to be better all round for indoors than my Kickr+Climb+road bike setup.
Its fantastically ugly though.
@@mctrials23 Its erm, functional!
Agree
this looks like a more complete solution than the Zwift / Caveworks. Belt drive is a great idea
The Elite Square has got my interest. Really keen to see and hear your review. It certainly looks a better option than the Zwift bike . However, it all hangs on price and what you get. Thanks
The Zwift Ride intrigued me, but fell flat on many things I would want. This I might get a Gen 1 of this though. Looking forward to you doing a full hands on review of it after testing it out. They need to send you one asap.
Hi Ray, it's November! There is not much info out there yet for the square. Is it for real? Looking fwd. to more feedback on a more specific release date, purchase options a comparison with the swift bike and of course it's compatibility with other software
I’ve been using my avanti for the past couple of weeks. Seems to be working well so far, just need to get my head around how the bridge connections works. Power data seems okay but yet to run through the analyser and compare with pedal based PM but headline stats seem good. I’ll be very interested in your review.
"more sports tech stuff in about 1 hour from now" 🤣
the belt drive on this frame thing is probably the most interesting thing about it.
Belt choice is smart since quite a good chunk of noise is from chain-based drivetrain.
Great video Ray, thanks!
Peering into my crystal ball, I am seeing an Avanti coming into my life next winter
Same here
Same here
When are you going to test one DC??
Is Shane playing cameraman again?
Can the belt drive work with non Zwift programs?
I dont know what drugs you are taking mate but your question is as stupid as it gets.
He was indeed. So much better/easier/faster!!! And yes, it's totally app-neutral.
That’s a big plus 🙏
Any news about Elite trainers supporting the Zwift cog (and Zwift Ride)?
WIP ;-)
@@elitecycling don't forget "older" trainers, like the Suito.
Have you heard any more information on when this is going to start shipping?
Does that handlebar on Square bike turn or is it fixed as on all other smart bikes?
When you test these trainers, please make sure to test them in COLD conditions too for power accuracy. I was burned this year with my Wahoo Core overreading my power in the realm of 30-40 watts in a cold environment.
I cannot get anyone at ELITE to let me know when the Square will be Avail in the USA, what do you know RAY?
I haven't seen many reviews on the Justo 2 over the original, but there's some great deals on the original... Would you say the WiFi for 200€ is worth it??
(I don't need the cassette or anything else)
I have the directo XR and it says to unplug it after use which is whatever and I do it lol but the cable that goes into the port is not grabbable on the thickened section, you have to yank it by the cord. I hope you’re able to grab it now with the avanti.
Any idea if it works with the Tacx Neo 2 when used in combination with the Elite Rizer? Affected by the Tacx rocker plates?
I get the trainer if it can simulate downhill. I need this to race against myself when riding an outdoor activity on my Garmin.
Still not out yet
The square looks like it has a lot of the features that the Zwift Ride shoulda shipped with (belt drive, riser, adjustable cranks). But man is it ugly AF, looks more like a prototype than a finished product
I’m waiting for The Elite Octagon
@@adamweb i just googled it and now i feel super stupid
@@nerooweb why do you feel stupid ??
Hey DC Rainmaker! I'm sorry if this off topic, but can you give us runners guidance on a treadmill? There are so many out there and everyone says to look for a commerical one, but I'm hoping that is not the case because they're insanely expensive. Since you do a lot of fitness tech, I figured this might be up your alley. Is there a reliable treadmill out there for your typical runner that isn't monstrously expensive?
Honestly, I'm totally happy with my Peloton Tread (base model), and I'd guess most say I'm a more advanced runner. That's often on sale.
I wonder if I could get a discount if I switch from my Direto XR to the Elite Square with a Justo or Avanti !? 🤔
The square seems like the perfect bike for a bike fitter, so much adjustability, it’s only missing adjustable handlebars
Do Elite's trainer segment and Garmin's Forerunner segment share a marketing manager? They both just keep adding SKUs and models to the range...
For smart trainer with a virtual flywheel e.g. Neo 2T, will the frame's virtual shifting send a small torque interrupt to emulated real shifting?
As an Apple TV user I'm hopeful this will play well with this. Bummer it's being released near NOV, most North Americans start indoors right at that time.
This one wins easily in functionality but the Zwift Ride definitely wins on looks
Disagree. Italian design almost always wins. The square rules the smart bike scene.
Very cool. I’m interested
Head of R&D for the Zwift Ride is having a rough day today
Smart bikes are certainly moving in the right direction rather than the monster sized ones we have now.
Does no one at Zwift or Elite ride the trainer for more than 60 min in a go? Those seatposts are barbaric! :D Would also be nice if they had better options for mounting bottle cages on the frames.
Stages were way ahead of time with the SB20 looking at this. I think this is the natural successor if you need to get something if your SB20 breaks
True. Mine is still working and praying I get a couple of years more out of it.
There is so much to chose from today that it can be really hard to figure out what meets your requirements and your budget the best. I suppose the best value for money would still be to get a Wahoo KICKR CORE Zwift One and then, if you do not want to use your regular road bike, then get a cheap second hand road bike and use it permanently with the Zwift One.
Do these work with My Whoosh in the same way ? Virtual shifting that is
yes, it does. Virtual shifting is managed by the frame itself which controls the trainer resistance. It works finely with all the indoor training apps
@@elitecycling thanks.
@@elitecycling Now this is a big feature over the zwift cog. It's app agnostic and is a feature that's actually built into the trainer itself, not something that an app needs to implement.
@@elitecycling I plan on using Rouvy, so Zwift isn't my usecase: does your Justo 2 offer virtual shifting too? I'd love to buy a Justo 2 along with the virtual shifters used in the Square, so that I can use both in Rouvy. Either that, or using my Di2 shifters as controllers for virtual shifting... this latter option would be my absolute favourite.
Hi, any news regarding Avanti and Justo2 reviews?
Avanti should be up this week
@@Dcrainmaker any news? my Direto XR broke after 3 years and the only available alternative is the Avanti because Kickr Core is sold out...
Can you adjust the stem length?
Will the belt be easily replaced
Do the levers brake the fly wheel and does it support zwift steering and in game controls?
Brake levers: They brake the trainer for a few seconds.
Navigation keys: It all depends on what Zwift wants to do.
At the moment they are not implemented, so you can't steer or interact with the software.
- Steering. Implementation be easy since we used the same protocol of Sterzo Smart but Zwift does not recognise Square as a steering device. So Zwift would just have to update the Square to the list of steering devices like Steering and Rizer
- Various keys. Zwift's protocol would be needed, but it is not known if or when it will be released.
Hopefully this also means virtual shifting is coming to older Elite trainers! (one can dream!)
Handlebar depth?
This would look good if the front fork didn't connect to anything.. just floated like the wahoo bike. It looks horrible with front fork stand..... but, the belt drive and some of the additional features is pretty slick!
i still dont understand how it can work with any other trainer out there with virtual gearing, not only ERG Ray... Does it really work with any trainer?
Yes, it attaches basically like an 11sp cassette, so no different than swapping a casette on other trainers. And then on virtual shifting, they handle it via ANT+ FE-C (which every trainer supports), just like smart bikes do.
Miles better than the Zwift one due to adjustable crank length and riser compatibility
That looks like a 90s lab bike 😂
I'm confused, it's supposed to shift virtually in any app right? How does that work?
It is so unapologetically ugly, I love it.
It looks like it was welded together the night before.
This is exactly what i want. Finally time to ditch the kickr bike
If the saddle can slide fore and aft it will throw off the geometry if too tall or short. Either it will become a pedal forward bike or the saddle maybe ahead of the cranks.
Square looks like the opposite of stiff.
Surely there's a market for a really simple "frame" that can sit on a smart trainer without all the features that these have. I just cannot justify spending this kind of money. But I've considered buying a cheap frame just for my trainer. I just don't believe people only want super expensive gear. Everyone wonders why these companies are struggling, well maybe they should stop chasing the biggest margins, focusing on the same wealthy individuals that their rivals are already catering for.
I'm not sure they could have made it uglier if they tried. It would bother me to have that atrocity in my living room, especially in a day and age of pretty bikes with full cable integration and vanity everything.
“Like, comment, subscribe…”
Third comment here 🎉. Got the podium….
I thought the Kickr bike was ugly. This square is spectacularly ugly. I've got a Wattbike Atom 2, which is really pretty, but actually quite bad 😅
That square bike looks hideous 😂
Square looks like a student project
I like the adjustability and belt drive! However, the design is hideous.
Ahh Elite.Who dont bother with you once youre unit is out of warranty.
What other brands bother with you once your unit is out of warrant?
Just them.My first trainer was Wahoo and had some issues past my warranty and was very helpful.Ended up selling the unit as i wasnt using it as much.I brought the Drivo unit and after a couple of years use it was very noisy.I did email Elite on numerous occasions but didnt get a response back.Ive got a Jetblack now. 👍
@@gawa62 I use elite trainers since 2016. Never had an issue with the support even if i was out of warranty and even when it was my fault
@@fabio_mussi sadly didn't work for me .👍
Hi, go Check Hall 8.0-O15