I'm a guy. I will say this up front. We are glad you are speaking up too. We're tired of having the church expect to little of us and have such insultingly low views of us and it's nice to have someone like this set a higher bar for us. We need more demanded of us and expected of us and instead are offered bleak and nihilistic visions of what we should be as men. Thank you for speaking up.
Only six minutes in and had to respond. This is so true! I was abused from 11- 20 years. During that time the youth events we attended the preacher would stress to us girls to keep ourselves pure as unto the Lord. Our bodies are temples of the holy spirit. God chose a young virgin. All the while my abuser, who was a deacon and treasurer of our church, would be sitting with us and grinning at me in my embarrassment and discomfort! I would think 'why do I even bother to be a Christian when I can never be good enough!! When I eventually spoke privately to my Pastor one of his responses was "well, if his wife had given him what he needed, he wouldn't have raped you!" I have always kept that statement a secret - until now, 😢 Not to leave this on a negative though, he did come through for me. Twenty years later. He was so repentant for letting me down and stood by me in an amazingly supportive way. I thank the Lord that He turned my life around. 🙏
Wow...I am so sorry that happened to you...what disgusting...ungodly..unbiblical advice...vengeance is mine says the Lord..whatever a man sows..that he will reap..
now this is terrible: but it doesn't negate the fact that your body is the temple of the Holy spirit. What would you advise a parent with daughters to give them as advice? I've been telling mine to avoid behaviour or clothing that would give anyone an excuse to abuse them because the world out there is sick and especially in the church. The wolves are so many
The Love & Respect book IS a crock. Once my husband and I were going on a trip together and he brought that book along, gripping it while I was driving. I could not endure any more male centered backward theories of men. I saw my opportunity & threw the book out the window!
I do not buy the narrative the Christian churches promote regarding only men need sex. Both my husband & I are thought of as attractive yet, my husband would very often, withhold sex - for months even for a whole year 2X. He knew what he was doing AND he knows scripture. Why is THAT okay? I so appreciate this talk & considerate handling of this topic.
Wow. I'm not sure I have words for how "on point" I think her message is. Until teaching and thinking change at a transformational level, she is absolutely correct: there will always be another Mark Driscoll, AND enabling spaces for men like him to start over again . . . and the exhausting, inevitable "whack-a-mole" process will continue. Killing bad fruit will only happen when we destroy the root that supports and nourishes it.
Not only christianity, other religious teachings teach the same thing. The wife has to submit to the husband. But the later part, 'Husband, love your wife' is not mentioned. Love and respect should be from both parties for each other. Crazy to put all the blames on women.
Actually, the Bible says that each are to submit to the other (Ephesians 5:21). This shows that the following verses are an example of Christ's command to love one another. Paul must be read through the lense of Christ.
Wow. I've been in evangelical circles all my life - my husband, too (50 yrs) - and have managed to avoid indoctrination and aligning with the major books listed (every man's battle, love and respect, for women only, others... ). People around us used them and recommended them. In the case of every man's battle, both my husband and I felt like it was not Christlike, was worldly, secular, carnal... Just from a very surface perusal. This feels like the way to identify a counterfeit bill to me ... Know well the real bill and the fake will jump out at you faster. We both just knew the Bible... and that was a fake. God help the Church. 🙏🥀🕊️
Sounds like you have good discernment. My motto is that if the book is popular in Christian circles, than it's not worth the read. It's usually cr*p and I should know, I promoted books for 20 years.
When I first read Every Man's Battle, I was a new believer with a very, let's just say, uncomfortable history. The more straight-laced of those in the church I was attending at the time really panned the book for the same reasons you gave. While I wouldn't recommend that title to anyone nowadays, at the time, it was the only book on that subject that spoke to my broken heart from the past I'd come from. Like I said, I'd never recommend it to anyone, but in the time and my life as a rough new believer, it was helpful.
Great Video. It is a shame that the secular world is much farther ahead in acknowledging some of these issues. Luke 16:8 The children of this world are wiser than the children of light.
I was hesitant to listen to this from just reading the title. Although she goes further than I would in a couple of areas, I believe that her information is very much needed.
Maybe a better title would be : "How Unbiblical Teachings by Some Christians on Sex Enable Abuse" ? The current title makes it sound like the Bible is to blame. We really don't need that.
I totally agree! I’ve heard the author before and appreciate the dysfunction and the biblical teachings that she is pointing out, however the title, a tributes these bad teachings to Christianity as opposed to bad teachers.
This is the best expose of implicit mysogyny . . .in unbiblical traditionalism and its isogesis I have heard in a long time. Blame shifting, very concerning.
Sheila you are one of my Hero’s. Your ministry and family are a huge blessing and have completely validated the abuse that I have gone in my marriage. Your research has given me so much insight as to how these abusive teachings are taught to women and men in the church and it’s thought of as normal in the majority of Christian marriage resources. Your wisdom has been life-changing. Thank you so much!
Another great episode. I just have to say that as a survivor of sexual abuse, the pressure many of these people mentioned who put on us is immense and people do not get it unless they have been there. As a former therapist, and now a certified life coach, I can tell you the discussions I've had with women over the years because of this issue is immense. I even had a guy I coached a few months back tell me about his struggles with pornography and the book Every Man's Battle and how that impacted him. Then again, Stephen Arterburn is the last person I'd take advice from, he's been married three times and is one of the most arrogant Christian men on the planet. Tim LaHaye's book, The Act of Marriage is also a horrible book, but these guys get the voice while many suffer. I'm glad there's finally people out there telling the truth.
We women are supposed to 'save' men, but at the same time we are supposedly more susceptible to temptation and wickedness than men. (Thinking of Eve biting the apple here.) How in the world does that work? Thank you so much for this message.
I see she provided the link on her own page to the source she’s talking about regarding Ligon Duncan’s advice to women regarding passive husbands. I have been really frustrated listening to Sheila through her book and interviews. I find myself agreeing with her premise and then trying to figure out how she got there from the materials she references. Not enough detail is provided, in many cases where there’s no source material other than testimony she heard in person. And in this case Duncan was not making the unequivocal definitive statement she claims him to be making. So I’m confused. Maybe he said it more strongly elsewhere but if that’s the case that context needs explaining. All he was saying in the clip she herself linked to was that a passive or timid man is more likely to take up spiritual leadership if his wife communicates to him that she trusts him…. In a general sense. Not “unconditionally” trusts & respects him (that word was not even close to being mentioned in the clip she linked). And the idea that a woman “can’t expect her husband” to do spiritual leadership is not what he said. He said that a man would be more apt to do them if he felt trusted and respected in the first place. He also mentioned that it is very easy for men to become passive, and to leave it all up to the wife. So he’s in essence agreeing with her that women are often already doing it. I really don’t see what the problem is with what he said. It makes me less “apt” to trust that she is accurately representing other quotes from these people that sue disagrees with. And ya know, I really want to agree that there’s a problem. Like I said, I do agree with the premise I just don’t think she is doing a great job supporting it in some cases. I definitely fell for a lot of this trash from the Driscoll types (although by the time he was on the scene I had gotten past that) and yes it was definitely harmful and is still way too popular.
I think if you had a lot of therapist friends who you could talk to, they can tell you the truth. That's one benefit to being a therapist you see this stuff and then can confirm what some people say.
I have a PhD from a secular university and I can tell you that research from Christian and Secular sources is atrocious. I'm also surprised at how shallow evangelical Christians are, not just on the issue of sex, but just about every topic. As to this topic, this speaker also seems very one-sided. She seems to believe that all of the Christian self help books claim that men are sexual monsters and women victims. Perhaps she's right, but I would like to hear something less black and white and more critical, especially as a researcher.
@IW9497 Agree with you that most of the times Christian books are not well researched and sourced and that many authors don’t know how to ready and interpret statistics etc. But Sheila’s book- The Great Sex Rescue- is really different. She conducted a survey on 20,000 women, used various methods for weighing the data and she made it all public, the data, the methodology, results, all of it. Several (secular) universities recognized and commended her work. I think her co-author has a PhD and is a statistician. You can look into it and read her book before you criticize so harshly. She really isn’t wrong in what she says, the situation is truly as dire as she says and she has the data to back it up.
The Bible is clear that men have a responsibility to keep themselves under control. A fruit of the Holy Spirit is "self control". If so-called Christian men can't be bothered to have a godly heart of self control because it besmirches their carnal swagger, they are sinning. When their sin leads to injuring other people, they ought to realize that their sin is getting deeper, and if they belong to Christ, they ought to care. The problem of self-control does not appear to be the fault of the Bible, but of the low expectations of spiritual life in "church people", many of whom don't even bother to get saved. If they are saved, they at least ought to have the fear of God to be concerned about what Jesus said: "if you've done it unto the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me". That is true of both sexes, but no less some men, because they choose to be controlled by their hormones. And we do know: the more obssessed with your hormones, the more you sacrifice things and people to serve them, the more hormones you get. That system works great for producing more hormones to worship and be obsessed by, until this weird kind of diminishing returns sets in.
Thank you so much for all the work you do on the side of truth, Julie. I so look forward to more of your broadcast, and hearing from more workers in the field, both men and women, who know full well that the twisting of scripture leads to a maligning of God's character, and a denial of His nature. There is no such thing as Christian love, without mutual respect. I am afraid those that push the "complementarian" agenda may know a lot "about" Jesus, and the God of the Bible...but they really do not k n o w Him.
Every relationship requires 3 things - love (! Corinthians 13), respect (rules, boundaries, limitations), and trust (truthful, loyalty, commitment). This goes for friendships, brother-sister, parent-child, husband-wife, etc. and even human-animal like dogs and cats.
Is there any difference between Evangelicals and Catholics or is it the same? I thought that Evangelicals got their ideas about sex from the Catholics. Or am I wrong about that?
Marry someone you love instead just getting married because that’s the “Christian” thing to do in the next step after you get done with high school and college.
Her "solution" is for girls and women to dress as streetwalkers and have no shame for pre-marital sex and "getting her needs met" however she wants after marriage. She thinks emasculate the men, demand orgasms and be nasty is the recipe for a good marriage.
Luke 6:31 KJV - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. So, dont treat any other person like a 'thing", a mere object of your actions and intentions, when you know you wouldn't want to be treated that way.
When a husband chooses to love his wife above himself, and with that mindset of love above selfishness he enters into sexual intimacy with her, while seeking above all else to give her pleasure and fulfillment, he will happily and paradoxically find that by giving her all she needs, he gets all the satisfaction his mind and body needs. Husbands and wives must recon in accord with the Scriptures that they are "one flesh," all-the-while guarding their hearts and minds against merchants of confusion, and of feminism dressed up in church words.
Feminism is regarding women as equal in value to men. Conservative religion, any conservative religion, argues against this, or they disguise this a "separate but equal," equal in value but seperate in role. Of course, Christ said nothing about the roles of men and women, and anything Paul says must be reconciled back to Christ's teachings.
"A woman is obligated to give her husband sex" - I haven't heard that in my church which is Evangelical. BTW, doesn't 1 Cor 7 say withholding sex from your spouse is "defrauding" them? To "defraud" is to withhold something to which another is entitled is it not? Perhaps the premarital messaging needs to include frank talk about the fact that husbands and wives "belong" to each other and all that entails? That way men and women know what to expect of each other. Having said that, scripture never makes allowance for the wronged spouse (usually male where sex is concerned) to extract "payment" or make excuses for "compensating" behavior. Furthermore, almost nothing is said about sexual withholding compared with the subject of men and porn.
I don’t understand how you can make an argument against calls for modesty in the church. The Bible is very clear about modesty for all Christians, not just women. Also, it is a fact that men have higher levels of testosterone and therefore typically higher sex drives especially during puberty. For that reason I do think Christian women and girls have a responsibility not to be overtly immodest to the point of tempting their brothers in Christ. Also dressing immodestly can be unsafe for women. That is the reality of the fallen world we live in. It’s certainly not ideal but until Jesus returns we have to work within the parameters of this world. The Bible has wonderful instruction on how to do so and modesty is a clear teaching. There is a way to explain that to girls without making them feel bad or ashamed of their bodies. Also you are seriously misrepresenting Stormy Omartien’s book. I have read the book and she is very clear that if there is abuse or alcoholism/addiction that the woman should leave and find safety for herself and her children. However, she does advocate for prayer for the husband during that time of separation, which is completely in line with the Bible’s teaching. In fact, her marriage was restored in a similar way. I understand that you ladies are trying to address issues with sexual abuse in the church but you don’t have to misrepresent and slander other Christian authors to do so. Also it’s pretty gross to hear you diminishing the idea of praying for someone who is mentally sick or struggling with sin. Prayer is extremely powerful and has the power to heal and restore. The fact that you make light of that as if it’s a silly notion is disheartening to witness. Again I acknowledge that there are serious problems with sexual misconduct in the church and weird and unbiblical ideas about sex/marriage among some Christians. I’m honestly so glad that all of these creeps have been getting exposed but what you are doing here with this presentation is intellectually dishonest and unbiblical in its own right. I am glad for much of what Julie was uncovered in the Church and I hope she continues to do so, but please combat the wrongdoings of the church with the actual teachings of Christ instead of just mocking other Christians. Also just for reference there is a great marriage course called “Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage” by Mark Gungor. A bunch of us went through it at my church and it was awesome and had none of the creepy weird stuff mentioned in this video. So if anyone is looking for a great resource for marriage support I would definitely recommend that because it is very Biblically sound and balanced.
"You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel . . " As I recall, Jesus said that to the religious leaders of his day, who were scrupulously conscientious regarding things like modesty, responsibility in rule keeping, purity, and prayer. Still, it seems that Jesus painted a word picture here that suggested they were . . . gross. That is the word you used, isn't it? Something to keep in mind as you correct and pray for those you believe to be in error.
If you read the Bible, you'll see that Christ put the emphasis on men avoiding sin (looking on a woman with lust). He does not say anything about women's clothing. The sinful world of male entitlement that is so pervasive in the conservative church puts the duty/blame on women.
@LemonLimeJuiceBarrell .Mark Gungor is the worst! He is hiding behind comedy and humor to objectify and demean and mock women (and men)! There are many videos to that effect right here on UA-cam. Can’t imagine that course was any different.
I agree. I could not regard Mark Gungor's views as useful, only foolish. There is nothing useful about abuse, disrespect & marriages in trouble. I did NOT find him funny !@@A.R.85
I do think girls and women do need to be careful what they wear instead of being afraid and fearful of what men will do, as sexual assault is wrong no matter what clothes you are wearing . We need to take responsibility and not dress too sexy because that doesn’t honor God, it just honors the flesh and whose attention do we want? We really want God‘s attention and not men’s attention or a women’s attention, so not too short not too tight, so I disagree that it promotes fear and a bad body image. I think that’s not the whole story of why women should be responsible to wear appropriate clothing. The other parts of the talk is great.
It's great to balance out the overly male-centred teachings, however, it's like you've swung too far on the other pendulum, toward feminism. I grew up in church, and I didn't get any of these messages. Even if I'm the only one, I think you went too far.
Feminism is rightfully considering women as equal in value to men and to free women to be whatever God calls them to be. The conservative church, or all conservative religions, have given in to the sinful worldly culture of male-entitlement and have twisted scripture to uphold male-entitlement. This is not supported by Christ's actions and his teachings, and since he's God, we are to follow Christ. I think you're so used to darkness that light is foreign to you.
I’ve heard every single thing she mentioned in high school youth group. I’m happy for you if you didn’t though - you must have even pretty fortunate to not have received those messages from church.
Sheila and Julie…there wasn’t one Bible verse presented in this talk. Not one. The Bible isn’t silent on the topic. I get my views on sex from the creator of it. The Bible clearly says to come together often an meet each others needs in this area. Much of what Sheila said does not align with scripture. Does that bother you? Other things do align. Please use scripture more to support conclusions.
First Corinthians 13, verse four is a great place to start. It’s not loving or man to require his wife to have sex with him, nor for a woman to require it of her husband. We need to look at all scripture, including the one where Paul states that we should not withhold ourselves from each other, in the context of the hermeneutic of love. To force anything on anyone isn’t love. If either party isn’t allowed to say no, it’s not love. Even God himself talks about us, giving to him cheerfully and not out of obligation. Second Corinthians 9.
Should left along time ago This makes me so angry cause it’s so crap and such things like this is a walk in the park against the things and systems that is held up high. Children court Domestic violence cases are not made by easy shallow phases
21:30 this lecture is a complete revolt against reality and natural law. Every sane teaching and impulse should tell you that modesty is in accord with right living.
I did not hear her say that women should not be modest. It is what is taught as the reason for modesty that is the issue. Women/girls should be taught modesty because we are valued, we are precious in God’s sight, that we do not need to objectify ourselves as many in society do…it should be an issue of self respect, not fear of enticing a man or somehow being responsible for a man’s bad behavior.
I'll say it... the problem is the Bible. Not enough said about sex and many other topics, so pastors are just guessing as to what God wants. Second problem is the Church as an institution. When bad ideas are given out, shouldn't there be some kind of way to easily discover that these ideas are wrong? There isn't and I think that's why there are so many denominations, so much confusion and in fighting. The Bible is a confusing book with little illumination on the difficulties of life. Anyone can make the book say anything they want to. The people that claim to hear from God or have studied the Bible extensively contradict each other.
A whole bunch of snippets and quotes given without any context and not one reference to scripture. Sad. You might have a good argument, you just didn't make it with this shock talk.
Anytime I see the name Julie Roys, my first thought is - What lies is she spreading this time? She has an extensive track record for twisting the truth so she can attack those she doesn't like or agree with. Very sad indeed!
@normgardner4560 Julie said many times she stands by every word she wrote and said and so far I have not seen anyone able to bring proof to the contrary of what she wrote. Not even one. So when you say she’s spreading lies, who don’t you back that up and show evidence of something she said which was untrue?
I'm a guy. I will say this up front. We are glad you are speaking up too. We're tired of having the church expect to little of us and have such insultingly low views of us and it's nice to have someone like this set a higher bar for us. We need more demanded of us and expected of us and instead are offered bleak and nihilistic visions of what we should be as men. Thank you for speaking up.
This is what my husband also first said/thought when I shared what views I had on the "typical man" (tainted by books like L&R)
Bless you, sir. My husband as well is sooooo happy this is all coming to light! ❤
This Lady is kind of creepy right🤷♂️
No, you are
Only six minutes in and had to respond. This is so true! I was abused from 11- 20 years. During that time the youth events we attended the preacher would stress to us girls to keep ourselves pure as unto the Lord. Our bodies are temples of the holy spirit. God chose a young virgin. All the while my abuser, who was a deacon and treasurer of our church, would be sitting with us and grinning at me in my embarrassment and discomfort! I would think 'why do I even bother to be a Christian when I can never be good enough!! When I eventually spoke privately to my Pastor one of his responses was "well, if his wife had given him what he needed, he wouldn't have raped you!" I have always kept that statement a secret - until now, 😢 Not to leave this on a negative though, he did come through for me. Twenty years later. He was so repentant for letting me down and stood by me in an amazingly supportive way. I thank the Lord that He turned my life around. 🙏
I am so sorry this happened to you. How horrific.
Wow...I am so sorry that happened to you...what disgusting...ungodly..unbiblical advice...vengeance is mine says the Lord..whatever a man sows..that he will reap..
What in the world! I am so sorry!
"one of his responses" - does that mean most of them were more sensitive? I hope so.
now this is terrible: but it doesn't negate the fact that your body is the temple of the Holy spirit.
What would you advise a parent with daughters to give them as advice? I've been telling mine to avoid behaviour or clothing that would give anyone an excuse to abuse them because the world out there is sick and especially in the church. The wolves are so many
The Love & Respect book IS a crock. Once my husband and I were going on a trip together and he brought that book along, gripping it while I was driving. I could not endure any more male centered backward theories of men. I saw my opportunity & threw the book out the window!
I do not buy the narrative the Christian churches promote regarding only men need sex. Both my husband & I are thought of as attractive yet, my husband would very often, withhold sex - for months even for a whole year 2X.
He knew what he was doing AND he knows scripture. Why is THAT okay?
I so appreciate this talk & considerate handling of this topic.
Wow. I'm not sure I have words for how "on point" I think her message is. Until teaching and thinking change at a transformational level, she is absolutely correct: there will always be another Mark Driscoll, AND enabling spaces for men like him to start over again . . . and the exhausting, inevitable "whack-a-mole" process will continue. Killing bad fruit will only happen when we destroy the root that supports and nourishes it.
Jesus’ parable portrays the weeds growing until the harvest. The best we can do is damage control until God makes it permanently right.
Not only christianity, other religious teachings teach the same thing. The wife has to submit to the husband. But the later part, 'Husband, love your wife' is not mentioned. Love and respect should be from both parties for each other. Crazy to put all the blames on women.
Actually, the Bible says that each are to submit to the other (Ephesians 5:21). This shows that the following verses are an example of Christ's command to love one another. Paul must be read through the lense of Christ.
Not just that, but "Husbands, love your Wives as Christ loved the church, giving Himself for it."
The words are always there but people cherry picked to suit their selfish gratification.
Some Christian woman asked me if my husband allowed me to drive!!!!! 😮😮😮😮
Wow. I've been in evangelical circles all my life - my husband, too (50 yrs) - and have managed to avoid indoctrination and aligning with the major books listed (every man's battle, love and respect, for women only, others... ). People around us used them and recommended them. In the case of every man's battle, both my husband and I felt like it was not Christlike, was worldly, secular, carnal... Just from a very surface perusal. This feels like the way to identify a counterfeit bill to me ... Know well the real bill and the fake will jump out at you faster. We both just knew the Bible... and that was a fake. God help the Church. 🙏🥀🕊️
Sounds like you have good discernment. My motto is that if the book is popular in Christian circles, than it's not worth the read. It's usually cr*p and I should know, I promoted books for 20 years.
@@stacylynnh 🕊️♥️🙏
When I first read Every Man's Battle, I was a new believer with a very, let's just say, uncomfortable history. The more straight-laced of those in the church I was attending at the time really panned the book for the same reasons you gave. While I wouldn't recommend that title to anyone nowadays, at the time, it was the only book on that subject that spoke to my broken heart from the past I'd come from. Like I said, I'd never recommend it to anyone, but in the time and my life as a rough new believer, it was helpful.
Great Video. It is a shame that the secular world is much farther ahead in acknowledging some of these issues. Luke 16:8 The children of this world are wiser than the children of light.
I was hesitant to listen to this from just reading the title.
Although she goes further than I would in a couple of areas, I believe that her information is very much needed.
I'm so thankful for these teachings!
Maybe a better title would be : "How Unbiblical Teachings by Some Christians on Sex Enable Abuse" ? The current title makes it sound like the Bible is to blame. We really don't need that.
I totally agree! I’ve heard the author before and appreciate the dysfunction and the biblical teachings that she is pointing out, however the title, a tributes these bad teachings to Christianity as opposed to bad teachers.
This is the best expose of implicit mysogyny . . .in unbiblical traditionalism and its isogesis I have heard in a long time. Blame shifting, very concerning.
I like that you used big theological words.
Eisogesis is the word.
Just a typo, calm down English professor.@sallybyrd3712
Sheila you are one of my Hero’s. Your ministry and family are a huge blessing and have completely validated the abuse that I have gone in my marriage. Your research has given me so much insight as to how these abusive teachings are taught to women and men in the church and it’s thought of as normal in the majority of Christian marriage resources. Your wisdom has been life-changing. Thank you so much!
Brilliant talk. I didnt realise the messages i had believed until today.
Another great episode. I just have to say that as a survivor of sexual abuse, the pressure many of these people mentioned who put on us is immense and people do not get it unless they have been there. As a former therapist, and now a certified life coach, I can tell you the discussions I've had with women over the years because of this issue is immense. I even had a guy I coached a few months back tell me about his struggles with pornography and the book Every Man's Battle and how that impacted him. Then again, Stephen Arterburn is the last person I'd take advice from, he's been married three times and is one of the most arrogant Christian men on the planet. Tim LaHaye's book, The Act of Marriage is also a horrible book, but these guys get the voice while many suffer. I'm glad there's finally people out there telling the truth.
We women are supposed to 'save' men, but at the same time we are supposedly more susceptible to temptation and wickedness than men. (Thinking of Eve biting the apple here.) How in the world does that work? Thank you so much for this message.
I would love to hear now the biblical teaching on sex.
Very grateful for your ministry Julie🙏🏽❤️
Is there any dirt at all on Julie Roy 😂
I see she provided the link on her own page to the source she’s talking about regarding Ligon Duncan’s advice to women regarding passive husbands. I have been really frustrated listening to Sheila through her book and interviews. I find myself agreeing with her premise and then trying to figure out how she got there from the materials she references. Not enough detail is provided, in many cases where there’s no source material other than testimony she heard in person. And in this case Duncan was not making the unequivocal definitive statement she claims him to be making. So I’m confused. Maybe he said it more strongly elsewhere but if that’s the case that context needs explaining. All he was saying in the clip she herself linked to was that a passive or timid man is more likely to take up spiritual leadership if his wife communicates to him that she trusts him…. In a general sense. Not “unconditionally” trusts & respects him (that word was not even close to being mentioned in the clip she linked). And the idea that a woman “can’t expect her husband” to do spiritual leadership is not what he said. He said that a man would be more apt to do them if he felt trusted and respected in the first place.
He also mentioned that it is very easy for men to become passive, and to leave it all up to the wife. So he’s in essence agreeing with her that women are often already doing it.
I really don’t see what the problem is with what he said. It makes me less “apt” to trust that she is accurately representing other quotes from these people that sue disagrees with.
And ya know, I really want to agree that there’s a problem. Like I said, I do agree with the premise I just don’t think she is doing a great job supporting it in some cases.
I definitely fell for a lot of this trash from the Driscoll types (although by the time he was on the scene I had gotten past that) and yes it was definitely harmful and is still way too popular.
Perhaps it was her time limit that didn't go into much detail.
I think if you had a lot of therapist friends who you could talk to, they can tell you the truth. That's one benefit to being a therapist you see this stuff and then can confirm what some people say.
I have a PhD from a secular university and I can tell you that research from Christian and Secular sources is atrocious. I'm also surprised at how shallow evangelical Christians are, not just on the issue of sex, but just about every topic. As to this topic, this speaker also seems very one-sided. She seems to believe that all of the Christian self help books claim that men are sexual monsters and women victims. Perhaps she's right, but I would like to hear something less black and white and more critical, especially as a researcher.
@IW9497 Agree with you that most of the times Christian books are not well researched and sourced and that many authors don’t know how to ready and interpret statistics etc.
But Sheila’s book- The Great Sex Rescue- is really different. She conducted a survey on 20,000 women, used various methods for weighing the data and she made it all public, the data, the methodology, results, all of it. Several (secular) universities recognized and commended her work. I think her co-author has a PhD and is a statistician. You can look into it and read her book before you criticize so harshly. She really isn’t wrong in what she says, the situation is truly as dire as she says and she has the data to back it up.
The Bible is clear that men have a responsibility to keep themselves under control. A fruit of the Holy Spirit is "self control". If so-called Christian men can't be bothered to have a godly heart of self control because it besmirches their carnal swagger, they are sinning. When their sin leads to injuring other people, they ought to realize that their sin is getting deeper, and if they belong to Christ, they ought to care. The problem of self-control does not appear to be the fault of the Bible, but of the low expectations of spiritual life in "church people", many of whom don't even bother to get saved.
If they are saved, they at least ought to have the fear of God to be concerned about what Jesus said: "if you've done it unto the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me". That is true of both sexes, but no less some men, because they choose to be controlled by their hormones. And we do know: the more obssessed with your hormones, the more you sacrifice things and people to serve them, the more hormones you get. That system works great for producing more hormones to worship and be obsessed by, until this weird kind of diminishing returns sets in.
My ears are bleeding.
Thankseverso for posting this!
Thank you so much for all the work you do on the side of truth, Julie. I so look forward to more of your broadcast, and hearing from more workers in the field, both men and women, who know full well that the twisting of scripture leads to a maligning of God's character, and a denial of His nature. There is no such thing as Christian love, without mutual respect. I am afraid those that push the "complementarian" agenda may know a lot "about" Jesus, and the God of the Bible...but they really do not k n o w Him.
Amen!
Every relationship requires 3 things - love (! Corinthians 13), respect (rules, boundaries, limitations), and trust (truthful, loyalty, commitment). This goes for friendships, brother-sister, parent-child, husband-wife, etc. and even human-animal like dogs and cats.
Is there any difference between Evangelicals and Catholics or is it the same? I thought that Evangelicals got their ideas about sex from the Catholics. Or am I wrong about that?
Thank you.
Great lecture. What is the solution?
Men should learn self-control and people should stop making excuses for them by blaming women. Pass it on.
@@Window4503 The falling rates of marriage indicate men are learning self-control and not marrying, so self control is working.
Marry someone you love instead just getting married because that’s the “Christian” thing to do in the next step after you get done with high school and college.
@1Whipperin I guess obeying God's commands for being a Christian and a man are so hard that some would rather not try?
Her "solution" is for girls and women to dress as streetwalkers and have no shame for pre-marital sex and "getting her needs met" however she wants after marriage. She thinks emasculate the men, demand orgasms and be nasty is the recipe for a good marriage.
Thank you for sharing!
Where does the scripture talk about "objectification?" Asking for a friend ;)
Luke 6:31 KJV - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
So, dont treat any other person like a 'thing", a mere object of your actions and intentions, when you know you wouldn't want to be treated that way.
When a husband chooses to love his wife above himself, and with that mindset of love above selfishness he enters into sexual intimacy with her, while seeking above all else to give her pleasure and fulfillment, he will happily and paradoxically find that by giving her all she needs, he gets all the satisfaction his mind and body needs. Husbands and wives must recon in accord with the Scriptures that they are "one flesh," all-the-while guarding their hearts and minds against merchants of confusion, and of feminism dressed up in church words.
Feminism is regarding women as equal in value to men. Conservative religion, any conservative religion, argues against this, or they disguise this a "separate but equal," equal in value but seperate in role. Of course, Christ said nothing about the roles of men and women, and anything Paul says must be reconciled back to Christ's teachings.
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." Ephesians 5:22 KJV
"A woman is obligated to give her husband sex" - I haven't heard that in my church which is Evangelical. BTW, doesn't 1 Cor 7 say withholding sex from your spouse is "defrauding" them? To "defraud" is to withhold something to which another is entitled is it not? Perhaps the premarital messaging needs to include frank talk about the fact that husbands and wives "belong" to each other and all that entails? That way men and women know what to expect of each other. Having said that, scripture never makes allowance for the wronged spouse (usually male where sex is concerned) to extract "payment" or make excuses for "compensating" behavior. Furthermore, almost nothing is said about sexual withholding compared with the subject of men and porn.
ew your gross
Well said.
Interesting.
I don’t understand how you can make an argument against calls for modesty in the church. The Bible is very clear about modesty for all Christians, not just women. Also, it is a fact that men have higher levels of testosterone and therefore typically higher sex drives especially during puberty. For that reason I do think Christian women and girls have a responsibility not to be overtly immodest to the point of tempting their brothers in Christ. Also dressing immodestly can be unsafe for women. That is the reality of the fallen world we live in. It’s certainly not ideal but until Jesus returns we have to work within the parameters of this world. The Bible has wonderful instruction on how to do so and modesty is a clear teaching. There is a way to explain that to girls without making them feel bad or ashamed of their bodies.
Also you are seriously misrepresenting Stormy Omartien’s book. I have read the book and she is very clear that if there is abuse or alcoholism/addiction that the woman should leave and find safety for herself and her children. However, she does advocate for prayer for the husband during that time of separation, which is completely in line with the Bible’s teaching. In fact, her marriage was restored in a similar way.
I understand that you ladies are trying to address issues with sexual abuse in the church but you don’t have to misrepresent and slander other Christian authors to do so. Also it’s pretty gross to hear you diminishing the idea of praying for someone who is mentally sick or struggling with sin. Prayer is extremely powerful and has the power to heal and restore. The fact that you make light of that as if it’s a silly notion is disheartening to witness.
Again I acknowledge that there are serious problems with sexual misconduct in the church and weird and unbiblical ideas about sex/marriage among some Christians. I’m honestly so glad that all of these creeps have been getting exposed but what you are doing here with this presentation is intellectually dishonest and unbiblical in its own right. I am glad for much of what Julie was uncovered in the Church and I hope she continues to do so, but please combat the wrongdoings of the church with the actual teachings of Christ instead of just mocking other Christians.
Also just for reference there is a great marriage course called “Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage” by Mark Gungor. A bunch of us went through it at my church and it was awesome and had none of the creepy weird stuff mentioned in this video. So if anyone is looking for a great resource for marriage support I would definitely recommend that because it is very Biblically sound and balanced.
"You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel . . " As I recall, Jesus said that to the religious leaders of his day, who were scrupulously conscientious regarding things like modesty, responsibility in rule keeping, purity, and prayer. Still, it seems that Jesus painted a word picture here that suggested they were . . . gross. That is the word you used, isn't it? Something to keep in mind as you correct and pray for those you believe to be in error.
If you read the Bible, you'll see that Christ put the emphasis on men avoiding sin (looking on a woman with lust). He does not say anything about women's clothing. The sinful world of male entitlement that is so pervasive in the conservative church puts the duty/blame on women.
@LemonLimeJuiceBarrell .Mark Gungor is the worst! He is hiding behind comedy and humor to objectify and demean and mock women (and men)! There are many videos to that effect right here on UA-cam. Can’t imagine that course was any different.
I agree. I could not regard Mark Gungor's views as useful, only foolish. There is nothing useful about abuse, disrespect & marriages in trouble. I did NOT find him funny !@@A.R.85
I do think girls and women do need to be careful what they wear instead of being afraid and fearful of what men will do, as sexual assault is wrong no matter what clothes you are wearing . We need to take responsibility and not dress too sexy because that doesn’t honor God, it just honors the flesh and whose attention do we want? We really want God‘s attention and not men’s attention or a women’s attention, so not too short not too tight, so I disagree that it promotes fear and a bad body image. I think that’s not the whole story of why women should be responsible to wear appropriate clothing. The other parts of the talk is great.
It's great to balance out the overly male-centred teachings, however, it's like you've swung too far on the other pendulum, toward feminism. I grew up in church, and I didn't get any of these messages. Even if I'm the only one, I think you went too far.
What is feminism?
As a DV survivor, I can assure you. This is not even remotely “going too far” I heard these messages my entire childhood
Feminism is rightfully considering women as equal in value to men and to free women to be whatever God calls them to be. The conservative church, or all conservative religions, have given in to the sinful worldly culture of male-entitlement and have twisted scripture to uphold male-entitlement. This is not supported by Christ's actions and his teachings, and since he's God, we are to follow Christ. I think you're so used to darkness that light is foreign to you.
I’ve heard every single thing she mentioned in high school youth group. I’m happy for you if you didn’t though - you must have even pretty fortunate to not have received those messages from church.
@@juliamanaraze1864 Maybe it's a denominational thing
Sheila and Julie…there wasn’t one Bible verse presented in this talk. Not one. The Bible isn’t silent on the topic. I get my views on sex from the creator of it. The Bible clearly says to come together often an meet each others needs in this area. Much of what Sheila said does not align with scripture. Does that bother you? Other things do align. Please use scripture more to support conclusions.
First Corinthians 13, verse four is a great place to start. It’s not loving or man to require his wife to have sex with him, nor for a woman to require it of her husband. We need to look at all scripture, including the one where Paul states that we should not withhold ourselves from each other, in the context of the hermeneutic of love. To force anything on anyone isn’t love. If either party isn’t allowed to say no, it’s not love. Even God himself talks about us, giving to him cheerfully and not out of obligation. Second Corinthians 9.
Should left along time ago
This makes me so angry cause it’s so crap and such things like this is a walk in the park against the things and systems that is held up high.
Children court
Domestic violence cases are not made by easy shallow phases
21:30 this lecture is a complete revolt against reality and natural law. Every sane teaching and impulse should tell you that modesty is in accord with right living.
I did not hear her say that women should not be modest. It is what is taught as the reason for modesty that is the issue. Women/girls should be taught modesty because we are valued, we are precious in God’s sight, that we do not need to objectify ourselves as many in society do…it should be an issue of self respect, not fear of enticing a man or somehow being responsible for a man’s bad behavior.
You don’t understand what she was saying.
I'll say it... the problem is the Bible. Not enough said about sex and many other topics, so pastors are just guessing as to what God wants. Second problem is the Church as an institution. When bad ideas are given out, shouldn't there be some kind of way to easily discover that these ideas are wrong? There isn't and I think that's why there are so many denominations, so much confusion and in fighting. The Bible is a confusing book with little illumination on the difficulties of life. Anyone can make the book say anything they want to. The people that claim to hear from God or have studied the Bible extensively contradict each other.
And how based on scripture did u write ur best seller? Heard nothing from the Bible dear sister
LOL, well, as sad as that may be to you, some of the best books on the market are not "Christian".
@@stacylynnh This! Absolutely this!
Interesting perspective. I wonder, does Meghan follow this advice in her marriage with Harry? If so, that would explain a lot.
A whole bunch of snippets and quotes given without any context and not one reference to scripture. Sad. You might have a good argument, you just didn't make it with this shock talk.
Anytime I see the name Julie Roys, my first thought is - What lies is she spreading this time? She has an extensive track record for twisting the truth so she can attack those she doesn't like or agree with. Very sad indeed!
Julie Roys is hero of faith. Back off!
Prey much?
Turn that finger you're pointing right back on you, bud.
@normgardner4560 Julie said many times she stands by every word she wrote and said and so far I have not seen anyone able to bring proof to the contrary of what she wrote. Not even one.
So when you say she’s spreading lies, who don’t you back that up and show evidence of something she said which was untrue?
I for one am unendingly grateful for Julie Roys, her beautiful heart and her brilliant mind.