"Redemptive suffering" (Thank you Fr. Peter!) The way of the cross is a road we do not choose but one we all must travel. I was reminded of the word "Anfechtungen" that Luther used to describe the overwhelming times of spiritual trial, terror, despair, and religious crisis that he experienced throughout his life. Very good and helpful discussion!
As you politely sparred over whether or not Christ’s suffering was God’s will - and did the Father direct that Christ should suffer and (in addition) does God want us to suffer, I was delightfully intrigued by your perspectives. I think I would agree with Reverend Kennedy, that both viewpoints are based on something positive. Rev Garnsey’s focus on serving others and caring for the suffering and needy highlights that service to others is vital to our becoming one within Christ’s Community. For me this is scary because the main theme of so many of the prophets was encouraging others to repent. Repentance leads to baptism and forgiveness of sins. And some of us don’t like to reach out to those we find intimidating or annoying. Serving others allows us to better reach out so that we can strive to become one with them in Christ; but the risk of being rejected or worse is the scary part. I believe that Father Peter was also on target in suggesting that the Gospel portrays the Father as approving of, expecting, Christ to suffer - and it must have broken the Father's heart. If all of us are guilty of sin, then doesn't the Law of Justice demand that we must satisfy the demands of justice to enter into God’s presence? Only Christ could satisfy those demands. God’s loving mercy could only be administered after justice had been satisfied. An Episcopal vicar suggested to me a while back that Christ’s Atonement is no longer a subject of focus within the Episcopal Church. I hope she was wrong. The Way of the Cross is an invitation to yield to the loving Christ and try to become one with Him. By yielding to Christ we allow Him to sanctify us that we might eventually become one with Him and one with the Father through Him. The Father allows us to suffer out of His great love for us. For He knows the vastly disproportional blessings that will ensue. He knows that if done with a broken heart and a contrite spirit we can offer up our sufferings for others in Imitation of what Christ does for us and participate with him in the Davidic Covenant. Father Peter made reference to ancient messianic passages. I would close with a link to one from Isaiah 53: 1-10 (Avraham Gileadi - Isaiah Institute translation) isaiahexplained.com/chapter/53
Mike, thank you for sharing your insights on the clergy's various perspectives. This is certainly a subject many Christians wrestle with and see from different angles.
@@shanesolar3924 Anglicanism split off from Catholicism almost 500 years ago. You don't have to like it, but in that half-millennia we've developed our own traditions, theology, etc. And many of us were never "part" of Roman Catholicism, so no we wouldn't be "rejoining" anything as individuals, you absolute dunce.
"Redemptive suffering" (Thank you Fr. Peter!) The way of the cross is a road we do not choose but one we all must travel.
I was reminded of the word "Anfechtungen" that Luther used to describe the overwhelming times of spiritual trial, terror, despair, and religious crisis that he experienced throughout his life. Very good and helpful discussion!
As you politely sparred over whether or not Christ’s suffering was God’s will - and did the Father direct that Christ should suffer and (in addition) does God want us to suffer, I was delightfully intrigued by your perspectives. I think I would agree with Reverend Kennedy, that both viewpoints are based on something positive.
Rev Garnsey’s focus on serving others and caring for the suffering and needy highlights that service to others is vital to our becoming one within Christ’s Community. For me this is scary because the main theme of so many of the prophets was encouraging others to repent. Repentance leads to baptism and forgiveness of sins. And some of us don’t like to reach out to those we find intimidating or annoying. Serving others allows us to better reach out so that we can strive to become one with them in Christ; but the risk of being rejected or worse is the scary part.
I believe that Father Peter was also on target in suggesting that the Gospel portrays the Father as approving of, expecting, Christ to suffer - and it must have broken the Father's heart. If all of us are guilty of sin, then doesn't the Law of Justice demand that we must satisfy the demands of justice to enter into God’s presence? Only Christ could satisfy those demands. God’s loving mercy could only be administered after justice had been satisfied. An Episcopal vicar suggested to me a while back that Christ’s Atonement is no longer a subject of focus within the Episcopal Church. I hope she was wrong.
The Way of the Cross is an invitation to yield to the loving Christ and try to become one with Him. By yielding to Christ we allow Him to sanctify us that we might eventually become one with Him and one with the Father through Him. The Father allows us to suffer out of His great love for us. For He knows the vastly disproportional blessings that will ensue. He knows that if done with a broken heart and a contrite spirit we can offer up our sufferings for others in Imitation of what Christ does for us and participate with him in the Davidic Covenant.
Father Peter made reference to ancient messianic passages. I would close with a link to one from Isaiah 53: 1-10 (Avraham Gileadi - Isaiah Institute translation)
isaiahexplained.com/chapter/53
Mike, thank you for sharing your insights on the clergy's various perspectives. This is certainly a subject many Christians wrestle with and see from different angles.
Phil. 1:29
Rejoin the Catholic Church and stop the heresy already.
sorry I can't rejoin something I was never a part of. but keep up the welcoming attitude. it will win millions to your cause!
@@johnnycaspar42069 the episcopal church is a branch of the Anglican Church. Which left the Catholic Church. So yes you were.
@@shanesolar3924 Anglicanism split off from Catholicism almost 500 years ago. You don't have to like it, but in that half-millennia we've developed our own traditions, theology, etc. And many of us were never "part" of Roman Catholicism, so no we wouldn't be "rejoining" anything as individuals, you absolute dunce.