Jeff I just saw your video!! I live in Central Pennsylvania and I just bought an old house that was built in 1901 and this is EXACTLY the type of pipes that are in this house! I just had to call a plumber because after another plumber had installed s new toilet in our 2nd floor bathroom. Well after a week or so I noticed that when my wife did laundry in our 2nd floor laundry room that is also in our 2nd floor bathroom we noticed that methane smell!! So I called another plumber and he said we had a huge clog in our main water pipe. He had to use a very long electric snake to unclog that pipe! Well here he found that the previous owners had used baby wipes and that was what caused the clog to get bigger over time and when we had the other plumber install the new toilet it added to the problem! Thank you for your VIDEOS ! And for those SADDLE VALVES they're what alot of plumbers and handymen in this area use for the water lines to the refrigerators with the water and ice dispensers in it ! I have 1 of those refrigerators with water and ice in the door but I haven't had the water line hooked up yet on my refrigerator but that saddle valve is what a guy at Lowe's said to use on it! So now I know better thank you!! I will definitely be watching your videos from now on! Thank you!!
@@stanleywheeler404 Glad to make you an informed homeowner. Only know you have open the Pandora xbox where you are living with the horror of knowing you Could have this as well but at least you can warn your friends and family up there too.
Very glad to see your comments about saddle valves. I had a bad experience with one of those years ago. When they get old and the rubber goes, they ALL eventually leak. Another problem you can have is if you put one on a pipe upside down (with the needle piercing the bottom of the pipe. If there is any sediment in the pipe, and there usually is, the sediment clogs the needle. I just rebuilt a house that had three saddles in the basement - two for humidifiers on the heating/cooling systems (don't get me started on those as they are just mold generators) and one for a refrigerator ice maker. Got rid of the humidifiers and their valves, and replaced the ice maker supply line with a T with a quarter turn shut off. Some of the stuff that the plumbers did when they built this place was unbelievable. They must have been real amateurs.
Took a little offense at the handyman slander (I do rental maintenance so I could be considered a "handyman"), but you also made me more confident in my plumbing abilities since I've never taken these shortcuts and I've always gone out of my way to remove and replace accordion traps. Good video 👍🏻
Hi Jeff. First want to say I appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. I know the motivation is to educate people on the correct way to do plumbing. However, I do agree with a few of the other guys here, that while you may not intend to, you do come across with an attitude about "all" handymen and DIYers. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not some powder-puff with hurt feelings. I'm a "supposed-to-be-retired" general contractor with over 40 years in the business. I need to keep my hands busy so I now operate a Handyman business here in Reno, NV. There are a "few" of us out there that do excellent work and take a lot of pride in our skill and love to help people out. One of my values is that I believe a person can learn something new every day if they have the heart to learn. Heck, I've got 40 years of experience, which includes working right alongside my subs so I could learn some of the tricks that make the difference between an amateur and a pro. One of the first plumbing tricks I learned, like 40 years ago, is the "white bread" trick. I learned that from an 85-year-old-plumber that was doing some side-work for me. I had a dilemma, you know what it was, so I asked a professional plumber and he was more than happy to share his "secrets" with me. I won't go into detail about the trick, I'll leave it to you; you're the plumber! I also know a lot of code. But am I a scholar on the plumbing code? No! I didn't know about the S-trap. Now I know, thanks to you! Maybe in the future, you can structure your words so they don't belittle the DIYer. After all, they are also just trying to learn something new. And maybe say, "Some" handymen :) BTW - I agree with you on that horrible Husky Sleeve Puller. (I've always called it a ferrule) I also bought that, because I was on my way to a late-night emergency call and it was all I could find at Home Depot. It's awkward, no leverage, and clumbsy, no matter which notch you use. I personally like the English Tool Co. Dual Thread puller. Pretty much looks like the last one you demonstrated. Just couldn't tell if yours has their patented dual thread nut. Thanks again for taking the time to teach. You've got a new subscriber!
Thanks for your insight Dan and yes I also use the English tool company ferrule puller and I also put up a video in the past about the plumbers bread trick which was meant of course with a bunch of arrogance from some of the pro plumbers. I will be uploading a video soon that compares several options for removing a stuck ferrule.
I am a plumber and see these parts installed all the time. Drives me crazy. I am sending instructions on how to install an undersink drain along with this video so that they know what they can and can't do and why. Thank you.
Interesting video. I'm a DIYer who used one of those accordion pipes one time. I wasn't proud of it, and wouldn't do it again, but it was easy. It's been in service for over ten years with no problems, so I'm in no hurry to replace it. Funny thing is that it isn't really needed. It's a pretty straight run. I was too lazy to drive to the hardware store to get a regular piece of pipe.
Dan, at least you're aware of it and know to be on the lookout for leaks, and you can change it whenever you want with minimal effort. Some of the older ladies we try to help don't know anything about what to do, or can't afford to hire someone to fix it. You're one of the lucky ones with no failures.
I am so glad I found this video. We are in the middle of a kitchen and bathroom remodel and our contractor installed a form n fit p trap under our vanity. I checked Ohio pluming codes and it is the same as Florida. We paid way to much money for this kind of work. I will be calling him Monday morning to address this. Thank you for this great video.
As a first time home owner I have noticed many shortcuts taken by a DIY kind of person, particularly in the plumbing aspect. The house had one of those accordian style traps in the master bath, the inspector reccomended replacement so I did. There is also a saddle valve tapped underneath the kitchen sink. I previously didn't know this was against code (apparently my home inspector didn't either), thank you for sharing this information. It hasn't started leaking yet, and I'm going to get it out of there sooner than later.
Glad to see you're getting smart about all this. Just monitor the saddle valve, you can change it at your leisure, or if you do a remodel. We are remodeling my friend's kitchen right now, will be changing out all the valves to new water valves. Also a few weeks ago we uploaded a video on how to avoid the Saddle Valve, using 2 other alternatives, see it here: ua-cam.com/video/WKKrUINQm_U/v-deo.html
I have worked in the home improvement industry for over 40 years. I am a Master Handyman. Which means I have learned building codes and know when to call in Professionals if for no other reason to know it will conform to local codes. I have worked in Hardware stores also. So many times I catch DIY'ers and so called Pros trying to find things that will make the job easier. Usually after I explain why, they thank me for not making a mistake. Plumbing has always been an interesting area. As you know and have seen there is no end to the senseless creativity one can run into. You have my full support in educating people how and why things are done the way they are done and why there are codes to make sure they are done correctly.
Im a journeymen plumber here in cali, and been in the trade for many years. This guy is right on point with his info. Saddle valves are junk that leak even you lightly bump accidentally especially if theyre corroded. Sadly yes home dump does sell these products. Any handymen trying to make a quick buck will sell you these items not knowing how long it will last or by a few months from now your gonna cause water damage somewhere because all these are cheap and end up leaking. Now with all the damages because a Diyer or a handymen caused you now have to call your home warranty company. Your home warranty company is gonna send their plumber and either say this is the home owners bad or its wear and tear.
Your house is your investment. Do you want it done right?? Or half ass?? Plumbing prices are what the living wage is for where you and they live. If not they should be reported to the BBB. I'm fare with my customers. I just don't work for free. I have to eat and pay bills just like any other business or trade. Sorry. Not to be funny but, I like steak and lobster just like everyone else does.
Incorrect. You pay the right price for someone else's skill and knowledge. They weren't born with these skills, they have to train to do it. I bet you wouldn't use the same theory if you had to go to court, ie, you could always try do it yourself for free.
Gawd i wish i watched this video a month ago. Had a stuck ferrule at a tenants house. I didn't know what it was called or that it could even come off. I changed the valve and couldnt figure out why it was still leaking. Called a plumber and he took a look and said the teflon was the problem. Oops. I took off the teflon but it leaked even more. Thought i damaged the valve with the teflon so i changed it again! Lol it still leaked! I figured it was that screw on cap that i couldnt take off so i gave up and called a different plumbing co. And they took off that ferrule thing that i didnt know could come off. They used that blue handle pliers though. They didnt use the ones you showed. Expensive lesson. Now i know what to buy and how to use it. Thank you so very much for putting these videos out. Im learning alot!
Awesome Angela. The plumbers that used the channelocks from what you described, that is a risky move because you can deform the pipe when you squeeze tight around the ferrule, rather than pull the ferrule straight out off the pipe from behind it with a duck puller tool or the Husky tool. Certainly a novice should not attempt that trick without a lot of practice in being gentle, and gently coaxing that ferrule off the pipe. Especially when it is stuck. the more stuck it is, the more force you have to use with pliers to try to remove it, which is why having that specific tool for this job works best
I love videos where someone makes a point and then has a source to back that point up. Well done. With that said, I have no idea why i'm watching this, but heck, I learned something.
Been a plumber for 20 years. I use #4 to remove vintage handles off of tub valves and lavatory valves that are period correct for their home. And they help to not damage the finish.
I am working as building maintenance. What you taught us here really really amazing. I loved your presentation. I am always struggling with all you mentioned and I loved your recommendations. I loved your English and surprised you bought a tool just to teach. Thank you so much. Aboma
I very grateful to my plumber , I ve done jobs before like digging up and replacing a septic tank , sewer line , water heaters but to go under a house with limited crawlspace and replace water lines, or plumbing in historic districts these guys have my praise
I do a lot of basic/moderate-level-difficulty DIY projects around my house. This video has been an eye opener for me. I didn't realize that HD and Lowes would sell non-code compliant products (I checked, and they are still selling a few of the products in your video). Thanks for an informative video.
I am general contractor, never used saddle valves myself, I remember when I moved to my house I had 3 of them and my first thought was to replace them, but that I thought "let's see how long they are going to last?" - 19 years later: not a single drop of water, not a single problem ....
Christopher, yes it seems to be hit or miss, some people have problem, while others get lucky. It's like the 80 year old guy who smoked all his life doesn't get lung cancer, but a girl in her 30 dies from it.
As a home inspector and dreaded "handyman" I see HVAC guys install those all the time on whole house humidifiers. We always recommend replacing them as they have a tendency to leak more often. Also, take it easy on us handy guys...we're no all idiots and sweating copper & gluing PVC isn't rocket surgery!
I had one in my home when I bought it.. They tapped it for the humidifier at the furnace.. Never leaked or had a problem for the 8 yrs I owned the home. But the dam water heater decided to leak 4 months b4 I sold the house.
I just came across this, watched it and immidiately subscribed. Now, I live in Europe so we don't have the same codes (S bends are allowed here) but all that I've seen so far makes perfect sense to me. I have remodelled quite a few houses in my time but the one thing I ALWAYS do is to get a qualified plumber and electrician to look over my work before I close anything. Thanks for this video, it was enlightening.
"Handyman special" is a term used in the industry to refer to work done by someone who doesn't know what they are doing and does not necessarily refer to handymen. As a Florida plumber I have seen a lot of shoddy work from all over the spectrum.
When I remodeled my bathroom I taught myself (from youtube videos) to sweat pipe fittings so I sweated on threaded adapters on all the water outlets. It's a handy skill to have for DIY and if the valve ever needs to be replaced, it can be done in minutes.
My plumber never returned to re-work my plumbing after they installed a dishwasher. So I got sick of not using the new dishwasher. I wish I found your videos on the j-flex no-no before I did the job. It works, but I had a feeling it wasn’t right. Thinking to myself the ridges are going to catch everything. I’ll re-do the plumbing and know what to do thanks to your other video on off-set drain connections. Found and subscribed to your channel due to your outstanding Champlain Towers reporting. Now when everyone says “you tube it” for home repairs - you are the go to! Thanks!
A previous owner did a whole bunch of work on my house around 2007, and we discovered it about two and a half years ago. The bathtub drain clogged about once a week. When I had the bathroom remodeled, it had one of those flexi drain pipes. The downstairs laundry drained into an S trap which we discovered after the drain clogged and soaked the downstairs. When we removed the damaged drywall, the nearby bathroom had upside down plumbing to the shower. Someone clearly did a fantastic job!
On bathtubs, you usually find the overflow drain is a flexible pipe, which is OK, since if it mainly used as an air vent. The only time that pipe would ever see water is during an overflow. But if the main tub drain at the bottom of the tub was flexible, then you have a problem for sure, that is a clear violation of plumbing codes.
@@jeffostroff Oh it was flexi all the way to the drain pipe running down through the wall. I'm pretty sure the whole thing would have failed code even with a normal piece of pipe.
@@Beastphilosophy Yikes, so it looks like the previous "plumber", for lack of a better word was too lazy or did not know how to cement PVC fittings and pipes together. I hope you had it replaced with the real deal when you had the remodel done. The other thing that makes me cringe when I see these stories is all the wasted junk that has to end up in the landfill because the job is essentially being done twice now.
I've used the faucet handle sleeve puller, tool #1, to remove a sleeve that was stuck pretty tight. But I did not use the two side brackets, I removed them, and used the tool in a similar fashion as tool #3 in your video. I inserted the pointy tip of the tool into the pipe coming out of the wall and started threading the nut onto the threaded end of the tool by hand. Once it was too tight to thread the nut by hand, I used a wrench to turn the tool and thread the nut all the way out along with the sleeve. I did not have any room to turn the tool handle because the old valve was behind a stand type sink and so I used a wrench to turn the tool. I think the side brackets are supposed to be used for pulling a faucet handle, not for pulling a sleeve (ferrule).
Yes. Remove the top part no need for arms - you are not supposed to use them as you aren’t pulling the nut. There are videos on line how to use this type of tool to remove a compression ring.
Thank you, I've come to learn that the path of least resistance and/or going the cheapest route is often not the answer. You've proved that in 4-different ways, and there's more....good job setting us straight!
In 40 years as a lawyer I have never heard of a home owners insurance company threatening to cancel a policy over using a flex p trap or anything remotely similar. I think you are out in left field overstating your case. I do agree you should not use these quick fixes.
John the reason you as a lawyer have not heard of this before is because it's not a legal issue. You can call me out in left field all you want, but I've been called into 3 different widow lady friend's houses because their insurance company performed a 4 point inspection on the house and called them back and threatened to cancel the insurance if the code violations were not removed. I had to take photos of the repairs to send into the insurance companies. I certainly did not imagine that. This is not a legal matter which is why you never saw it before. I would still rather have the insurance companies force me to remove code violations, than to reject my claim because of code violations.
The home insurance companies make their own rules. I had an approved wood stove installed to meet all the requirements of the building code in my workshop. I changed insurance companies one year to achieve a better rate. After four months on the new policy, the insurance company requested an inspection of the home, since all the information exchanged when the policy was established had been done verbally and through email. They said it was "just standard procedure to randomly physically check new home policies". Following inspection by the insurer's "independent risk management company", the insurer demanded that the wood stove be decommissioned within 30 days. I confirmed with the building inspector that the installation met or exceeded all of the current building codes for safe operation. There was no code violation. The insurance company continued to demand that the stove be removed or my homeowner's policy would be voided. They also noted, that no other insurance company would write a policy following the cancellation of this policy. The wood burning appliance was removed and replaced with a propane heating system at a cost of $4,000.00 . Yes....Insurance companies are making their own rules.
@@mikemichaelz135 It was the new insurance company that threatened to cancel the policy. I contacted nine other insurers and all refused to write a policy with a wood stove heating the shop. One stated that they would consider a policy if they first did their own inspection, but also advised that the policy would likely carry a premium of about $1,000.00 per year.
Insurance companies dont survey the house for breaches of code. The Local Planning/Building Regulation Authority does that when it signs it off. In any case, if the house was built with P traps prior to the changes in code then they are legal.
Florida does not use the Uniform Plumbing Code. The original base code for the Florida Code was the International Plumbing code. Your video is very informative. Many people ask why the big box stores are allowed to sell products that are banned by the codes, the answer is because the code does not regulate product sales, only product installation.
I've looked down the thread here and several Brits have rightly commented that the quickest and easiest method of removing a ferrule (olive) is to cut a diagonal groove across it with a junior hacksaw until nearly through, then inset a flat blade screwdriver in that groove and twist. Replies have suggested this may be in some way difficult, or liable to damage the pipe. It takes only 7 or 8 passes with the saw to give the depth of cut needed and it pops off easily. There is no need for special tools which will often not fit in the kind of restricted spaces plumbers work in all the time anyway, when such a quick, simple and foolproof method is available to anyone regardless of skill level.
"regardless of skill level.", LOL John I've seen some really stupid people out there. Even good friends who are dumber than a door nail that I've gone to help do repairs in their house, they could never handle that. Sure it's a good idea for those who know how to do it, but not for Joe Sixpack
Interesting on the S-trap. Here, the standards are written to control venting of the stacks instead to prevent the trap being sucked. Either by having a vent stack nearby, or air admittance valves, and advising on the size and location of vent lines and valves.
Geezzz my 92yo mothers house has the S trap. The trap came apart from the pipe exiting the stink. It's a goner. Problem is...someone glued the nut on the part before the curve into the floor. The house is in ill condition and not worth living in but she won't move. So I'm gonna just do what I can with a P trap. Making Sure of the vent and adequate water fill. I guess.... P.s. I'm an arthritic riddled 64yo woman who used to do it all. Mom doesn't realize what it does to me but I'm the only of 3 who helps her. I hope you enjoyed the book and now I can't remember the purpose of this DIY. 🤷♀️ Have a blessed day!
Form n fit trap is used by my plumber a few days ago on a new sink. He is a licensed plumber from Thumbtack. Thanks for this video. I asked him to come back and fixed it and he did. Now it is all good.
Found your channel about 2 months ago and love the content! Scored the craftsman 105 pc gun metal set for $47.98. And found out about the Lowe’s 10% off cards on EBay. Now, the items not to use for plumbing. Really liked the wrench in this video so I bought from your description. Thanks so much Jeff! Can’t wait to see your next video!
That was really interesting. I don't know how I got here. Reading and understanding the code is important but your explanation helps us understand why the code forbids certain things. Thanks
I’m an electrician not a plumber. Obvious to see that these plumbing solutions are crap. Lol. Thanks for the video. I should do one for electrical crap out there.
The same crackhead that did the plumbing in my pace also did the electrical. Green wires being used for the neutral. Exterior junction boxes without a binding ground wire. The circuit my fridge and microwave are plugged into are spliced into a knob and tube wiring (Not to mention my well pump is spliced, yes spliced, into the same circuit inside the sub panel), 220 volt wires to my stove are spliced into the original wiring that goes through an interior junction box mounted on the exterior of my house (and the splice is wrapped with electrical tape) which gets watered with my sprinkler system, Black wires being used for a neutral, a cut live wire protruding through the wall behind my water heater just hanging in the breeze, tandem breakers in a sub panel clearly not rated for them, Breakers from different manufacturers used in the sub panel..... I can go on and on. I'm not a licensed electrician but I just spent $1000 in just parts to fix that crap. I just ordered 2 AAVs to fix the non vented plumbing in my bathroom and kitchen and the S trap. If I ever find that stupid son of a b*tch who remodeled this house to flip it I'm going to sue him
@@ladyluck5248 I'll deal with that after I do the repairs. I didn't even realize these issues existed until I inspected my sub panel when considering designing and pricing a solar power system. Seeing that mess just made me sick to my stomach. I do have pictures
I'm a retired electrician. I don't do videos but if I did the first one would be about the dangers of plugging a generator into a dryer plug. I've seen people do this and as you know, it can cause linemen down the road to have really bad day. Linemen should and do ground every conductor before they touch it but this could energize lines all over the neighborhood unless the main breaker is off. Code requires a permanent mechanical interlock to prevent generators from sending power to utility lines.
I have changed many water shut offs over the years that were compression, and I have never once needed to remove that copper sealing ring that is stuck in place. I just leave it as it is and reuse the original nut and ring. I make sure that it's tight....works every time, and never leaks. If it wasn't leaking before, it won't be leaking after you change it if it is done right. The nuts and rings are all the same size for 1/2" copper pipe
Yes indeed, nothing wrong with doing it your way as long as you re-compress nice and tight and no leaks. I just like to start with all new blank canvas, all parts brand new, the sleeve has only been compressed once, when I compress it brand new. Besides, each new angle stop comes with a new compression sleeve so why not use it. Also, many properties I work on are foreclosures, or neglected properties, prior water damage, high moisture in bathrooms, where the angle stops have gotten corroded, and the copper pipe coming out of the wall is corroded, so I remove everything, and "sand it" with Scotchbrite to polish it off nice and shiny brand new copper, then install all the new parts. Looks like a million bucks, and top it off with a brand new decorative flange as well.
Exactly why go to the effort. I have also found if they have a very small leak, if you leave it tight overnight they often seal up. The metal must creep under the stress and seal. Found the same with black pipe and gas lines too, though it has to be a really small leak to have a chance as steel doesn't creep as much. 40min to get the compression ring off I would have just hacksawed it most of the way thru and broken it open in 15min. Cut at an angle and don't nick the pipe. I always put npt ends for the stop valves and then I don't have to fiddle with those compression rings. NPT is easy to replace and they never leak. I have had too many compression ones that do leak.
@@court2379 I also like to test all of my installations with hot water flowing through the pipes afterwards and especially the plastic cups it makes everything expand out and then shrink back later when you switch to the cold water that were you have fully exercised the installation.
You will someday run into one where it WAS leaking at the nut, and the nut is corroded, and there is no way you can re-use it. Typically if there's room, you can just cut off the pipe and use the new compression ring with a new nut. If there's not room, you'll have to do something else, such as try to remove the ring and get the new one to hold onto the (often corroded) pipe, or use a push-on fitting, or tear into the wall to replace the pipe and leave enough pipe sticking out for several refittings after cutting the ring off.
On commercial properties, I found old valves/nuts that did not match the threads on new angle stops. I like to start out new, but sometimes would reuse a nut and ferule if it would seal up. The way to remove a ferule is with a professional splitting tool. It is also heavy cast aluminum with a nipple to go inside the copper tube and a blade that is turned into the ferule. Small channel lock pliers easily turn the bolt on the blade (it isn't a hex, but has external splines). Far too often, the old valve was installed so tightly that it deformed the tube and it wasn't possible to seat a new ferule on it. If there is enough tube, I would cut behind the old nut and use a new compression valve or just sweat on a 1/2" threaded male copper adapter and use a threaded valve. Property managers were happy to have us replace all of the valves and supply lines when getting a suite ready for new tenants, as the bill for us to professionally clean up, treat, and repair water damage was much higher. The buildings were built with flexible hard lines built into the angle stops and they were prone to leaking.
You are freaking awesome, I love when people do things right the first time and share their knowledge with us that want to do the same Im a DIYer and its funny to see the people that always have something negative to say, but I say "where's your video?" If they have so much to say, obviously they can do it to perfection teach us lowly peasants, haha! Ive only watched 3 of your videos because of plumbing problems my family and I are having, you have integrity and care about us and the customers you have, I trust the information you give and because of that, you've earned my subscribe, thank you💚
Please don't throw all DIY'ers and Handymen into the "subpar" "don't know what they're doing category". There are DIY'ers and Handymen that will do a better job than a certified plumber and vice versa. This is not the case with just plumbing either. As an example, you stated the plumbing code is required in all 50 states. That isn't correct. My state, Missouri leaves it up to the individual counties who then either adopt a code or let the individual municipalities choose. In my municipality the code is the 2009 version, in the adjacent municipality it's 2006. There are adjacent counties that do not require it at all. I know this and I'm a DIY'er. I am remodeling my house, as a DIY'er and even though my code is 2009, I'm using 2018 for improved methods and safety.
Good points. I'm a DIYer & I know the plumbing code better & take more care than the local plumbers. I saw the botched job the "master" plumber did at my friend's house & it was horrible. Dude put the trap on a washing machine standpipe under the floor & busted a hole in the brick wall & didn't seal around it and then had a very short run of PVC up & slapped a crappy cheap AAV on it-- OUTSIDE. He didn't have to run it through the roof but he could have run it around the soffit & above the roof. He also didn't slope the soil pipe at all so it won't drain properly. The other plumber (there are only two licensed plumbers in the area) uses the wrong fittings-- will use sanitary tees on their backs when he should be using wyes.
Not to mention that once all the things mentioned were at one point completely viable fixes or solutions for challenges. Those taps for water lines are still commonly used. If they were totally illegal to use they wouldn't be commercially available today.
BigBrotherIsTooBig Absolutely! I’m a DIYer in Missouri, too and I take a lot of time and pride in my work. Plumbers and other professionals are there to make a maximum amount with minimum effort and spend as little time as possible. Many DIYers study the code and research the best methods to complete whatever has to be done. We also have the luxury of spending as much time as necessary to do it perfectly. Plus, we’re often working on our own homes which motivates us to do it right even more!
@@agentone8550 That's not completely true. Stores still sell things that are code violations (such as S-traps) because there is still a demand for them. In some places AAVs are banned but are still sold. The main issue is they won't pass inspection (and may lead to leaks or failure of the DWV system), but people will still use them either for convenience or out of ignorance. Unless the manufacturing was banned, they will still be available. Doesn't mean it is good to use them. So long as a profit can be made, companies will make things and sell them regardless of whether or not they are to code or work properly.
Stuff all this soldering bring on the push fit fittings, I've used a similar saddle type valve assembly on refrigeration pipework, never had a problem, no leaks and I believe 20 years on still OK
Saddle valves are not hermetic seals and do have a slow bleed through the gasket. Saddle piercing valves are only used today for refrigerant recovery on small hermetic sealed refrigeration systems such as window AC, refrigerators, ice machines, and water coolers.
Speaking of Arrogance.... I do both Home Inspections and Handyman work. Electrician by trade, but can do just about everything in the construction industry by gaining experience. I'm home inspectors are not "code " inspectors, however I call the flex pipe out Everytime, and Everytime I get flack, normally from "flippers". Last week, I was asked to replace a saddle fitting. I told customer I would replace with a different type valve. "SHARK BITE", because I explained the issues with saddle valve, just like you did in this Video. (Today is first time seeing this) I guess I do need to practice my people skills, because I don't want to be perceived as an arrogant "professional" as yourself. Man, you should never feel you are above anybody. We are all in this grind together. Best of luck.
As a plumber for 30+ yrs. I have to agree with almost everything you taught in this video. What I didn't understand was two-fold. Why would anyone try to use something as flimsy as a handle puller to try to remove a compression nut and ferrule? Why pull it in the first place? Dope and tape on the new angle stop will merry up very well with the old nut and ferrule. Only time I've ever change the compression ferrule is on very old copper and there is damage to the copper or old ferrule. Many times having to resort to getting my tiny tim out and saw off the old ferrule because of too little copper exposure between the wall escutcheon and end of the copper. Show em how to do that...not easy but, I've done it many times.
Hilmer: Husky touts this tool as a handle puller and a sleeve puller. They even have 2 sets of instructions on the back for whichever mode you use it in. A lot of properties I deal with have corrosion on the pipes or the old valve stop, so I always change the ferrule by policy anyway. The new valve comes with a new ferrule so why not use it. I always remove it, polish off the copper pipe nice and shiny, and install everything brand new again.
I stopped using compression stops a couple of years ago. Sharkbites at the toilet. Easy to change. Also can take it off to change the escutcheon. Sometimes I use a sweat on stop, because it can be sweated off. Biggest problem is idiots cutting the stub out off all the way back at the wall. That pisses me off cuz I use chrome plated supply lines at toilets.
@@ronmexico79 Nope. I do million dollar homes. The competition stubs out blue PEX and uses crimp on stops at toilet, with braided line. That is garbage. A copper stub out, sharkbite stop, and chrome supply line is by far the best looking way to do it.
I hate how Home Depot misleads people who wouldn’t know better I also hate handymen who give my business a bad name! I’ve worked for many companies in many trades and through hard honest work I’ve made a business for myself. But there are those who think you can just call yourself a handyman and watch UA-cam videos for all your info! Ugh! Thanks for the informative videos!! 🤘😷🤙
Good to hear from one of the smart ones! I know they gotta earn a buck too, but if many of them would leave plumbing and electrical out of the equation they would be OK.
You are so right. I only learn how to do it myself because I can't afford to pay professionals for their expertise. If I gain experience, the less trial and error, the happier I am with the savings.
Great tips and info Jeff; I’m forwarding this link to friends. Almost every second house has a Saddle Valve installed for a humidifier and a fridge, some installed by the builders in new houses here in Canada. Q: This week I got my basement kitchenette countertop and sink renewed. I am going to replace the flex hoses. One of the 1/4 turn compression valve is passing very little water at close position, no leaks though. I am hesitant to replace it because the pipe will need cutting which will shorten it for future repairs. 99.99% of the time the valve remains in open position. If needed, I can shut off the main. Your advice is appreciated.
If you have to cut the pipe cut the pipe you can always solder on new sections of copper pipe to make up for it but in my opinion getting rid of the saddle valve and putting in a real valve makes the most sense.
@@jeffostroff I agree 100%. Some friends didn’t like the advice by saying no one uses Copper anymore, we have plastic pipes: Compared to copper, I hope these plastic pipes would last for 100-200 years otherwise it’s going to be a big problem. I have 3 failure examples. 1) Kitec pipes 2) Newly invented made in USA glue/sand mixture to hold the reclaimed land of Palm islands in Dubai, a failure. 3) A very special epoxy glue made in Germany with LIFETIME WARRANTY. In 1974 we used it in making Onyx marble gift items with 24K Gold plated fittings for export. Luckily, I still kept some items with me. After 30 years, some of them simply separated from the glue. That export company does not exist anymore 😊
Great information....hopefully the DIY people will learn from this. One thing to keep in mind for your future videos....Methane gas is Odorless. Methane is usually present in sewer gasses but it's not the one that smells bad.
natural gas (methane and other hydro-carbons) service has an odorant mixed into the service lines, so we tend to identify a gas leak with that gas smell. That's done on purpose :) I agree with Andy Owens, some kind of sulfur compound will be what smells.
It's great that you take the time and effort to share information like these parts, relevant codes, and to question what the box stores are selling us. Probably just personal preference but the repetition, for example when you restate Florida plumbing code is using broader standardized plumbing codes, detracts from the content. Also consider that when you assume, like at 6:10, that something is because of price or because the (entire) group you don't like uses it, it doesn't benefit anyone but that arrogance previously bemoaned. It doesn't really matter what group someone belongs to IF they ignore a code or do shotty work. Let the trolls do the trolling.
Venturi effect, lad. Capillary action is how solder wick works, or a paper towel. I am enjoying this! Watched further and the floss was also an excellent example of capillary action.
@@uhmgawa6533 Venturi effect is pressure differential causing flow, like a carburetor. For an s-trap the drain is the carb jet, and the toilet drain or otherwise is the bore of the carb. Capillary action is surface tension causing the flow, maybe with a slight side of gravity siphoning. Waxed dental floss probably makes it worse, it's hygroscopic so the water beads up and increases the tension all the more. Like watching raindrops on the windshield, they sit and pool till they get too big, then they streak down all at once, draining the entire drop. Surface tension held it there, and surface tension drags it all down.
In most states, insurance carriers must issue 'legal notice of cancellation' which is customarily 60 days notice. So they may give an insured 48 hours notice of their intention to issue a 60 day notice of cancellation but they can not get off the policy in 48 hours.
It's funny how once in a while someone comes in here with this same phrase and thinks they are a lawyer, LOL. Otis, this verbiage is for when companies decide not to renew like here in Florida all the time insurance companies drop you because they don't want to cover hurricanes anymore. What we are talking about is code violations, or you are violating the terms of the insurance policy by using parts known to cause floods. When you violate the terms of the insurance policy, they can drop you immediately. Also, many people I know who had flood damage had their insurance companies just plain old decline claim for these very reasons, so it does you no good to be paying for the insurance anyway that you can't use anyway.
Whoa whoa back the truck up. A few years ago I was told I had to install S traps instead of P traps that's coming from my city inspector. I'm in Michigan.
FYI, not all handyman do bad work as you say with that "handyman special" dig you mentioned on the accordion quick fix. I've been a handyman for many years and have had to correct mistakes that supposid licensed and professional plumbers had done only to have the customer complain to me about their shoddy work. I'm doing a remodel now that a previous plumber used that exact P-trap on a bath vanity just to cut corners. Not only that, but he re-ran all new plumbing in this house and didn't even remove the old supply valves and it looks like crap next to the new ones.
Well, you shouldn't be offended, because you're not the guy that installs those incorrect parts. But, I also doubt whether real plumbers put those accordions in. Maybe they were put in after fact by someone else? Unless the city inspectors missed it... But yes you're right plumbers do sometimes get sloppy, keep in mind most of the construction of new houses might be permitted by license plumbers, but their worker bees are sometimes not the most talented, and I too have had to fit fix many plumbing issues done wrong by builders plumbers.
@@jeffostroff I wasn't offended but was only making a point and in my case, my customer paid a plumber and that was the result. I agree that yes, not all work is done by the licensed guy but I would think that he would at least check the work of his guys.
@@MannyFontes1968 A local plumber that I have used in the past would stop by the job near the end and make sure the work was done by his guys properly.
Used these on many occasions. 10 years later, went to a home, still there and functioning fine. Sure , will hard pipe but some of these older homes have been altered so much a plumber will charge outrageous prices. Local plumber charged $80 to replace a toilet flat valve.
Why it isn't banned in the stores and from the suppliers, if they continue selling it, people will definitely buy em. Should be stop from the suppliers first. Personal opinion.
Erick, I have been wondering this for years myself. It's not a crime to own them, it is only against plumbing code to use them. It's up to city inspectors to stop you from using them by failing your inspection. Maybe the companies jsut reason that people will use it for very short immediate repair, and not make it permenant. Although, a saddle valve is permanent, there is no undo without cutting the pipe where the pin hole is and repairing it with a coupling.
I C I’m a handyman that does research first. Don’t be angry at all handymen. I supply plumbers and electricians many hours of work, when I feel it’s past my ability.
It's not banned in stores because people keep buying it and using it. Check out your local parts store that most likely sells window tint that is under the legal VLT limit. Sure, these examples aren't supposed to be used in the manner they end up being used (improperly). But, who's to say that's the only way they are used? Maybe that person wants a drain for some hydroponic system? Maybe the window tint that is too dark is used on some home window and not a car? Laissez faire! You wouldn't want the gov't to tell you how to spend your money would ya...?
Whos doing what in the equation? Who's getting paid and who's doing the paying? The box store (corporation) + the City (corporation)+ Plumber (corporation) + you (the consumer).
A hardware store employee in the hood where I used to live told me it was common for his customers to spend $6 for a roll of duct tape to repair a cracked $3 P-trap!
@@robertfurdas2760 LMFAO 😂 Then the title should be " 5 things you shouldn't use in plumbing" a glass table for your metal tools as number 1... Just an FYI.. I have been a certified pool and spa operator since 2003 which encompasses plumbing, electrical and chemistry.
Jeff, I actually used the Superior Brand Ferrule/handle puller last night. It was very similar to the Husky brand, if not the same. Those two puller claws are not used to pull the the ferrule off, they are used to pull faucets handles off. I watched the Superior video and those claws were only used to pull handles off. The Superior brand did the job for six pipes with no problems. Yes the the T handle could could be longer for more leverage. I noticed you omitted putting the silver insert into the pipe before coupling the puller to the nut. That is the reason why the T handle was striking the back of the puller. So I can see why you were having problems using the tool. I wish they omitted the puller claws that were used to pull handles of with. Yes the tool is awkward and uncomfortable, but it was the only one I could find in stock. I would have bought a better one if it was available, and probably will order one online for future projects. But for 11 bucks and 6 leaking stops, this tool worked great. Maybe the Husky brand instruction are different? But the pullers look identical. BTW all the stops and pipe had the green corrosion and the sleeves were on there. The way you were demonstrating using the Husky tool is my opinion was incorrect. Sorry, I usually enjoy your videos and get a lot of useful information, but this time the demonstration on how to use the cheap Husky puller missed the boat. Here is a good video for reference ua-cam.com/video/7KDe8ACKjwc/v-deo.html
@@redmatrix He's actually responded to a few similar comments, but he seems too hard headed to except the fact that he screwed up and used the tool wrong in the video. It makes me suspect he's never used it correctly and maybe it also reveals a part of his character.
@@dtester Busted, You said except when you intended to say accept. Your failure to edit this post to speak in proper English reveals a part of your charachter.
Nice video, quick question what’s the best way to clean the kitchen drain lines. I have a1 1/2 inches pvc drain line that is getting clogged all the time there’s any kind off liquid or something to clean? Thank you
No liquid cleaner of any kind ever works outside the commercial. In the bathroom I use that dollar plastic tool that that goes down he drain and claws back all the hair out.
The husky tool works fine when used correctly. First you have to use all of the parts. The most critical is the one that rolled off of your table when you picked up the tool. That was the insert that fits the tool to the end of the pipe just like your other tool does. The wings are not used for sleeve pulling, just faucet handles. It doesn't have the leverage that the wrench driven one does, but will easily pull all but the most stubborn sleeves.
@@brianreinhardt4050 hey mr. bob villa, no one is perfect and the instructions are not very clear. I used it wrong at first too, its a consumer grade tool not something pros would buy (and I had an emergency repair to make, HD only had that tool available, so it had to work)
thank you for this information. I'm remodeling our bathroom and the contractor I hired allowed his plumbing sub to put form n fit P traps under both vanities. Now I have the information to talk to him.
Yes it is just so frustrating how many alleged professionals out there are doing this even to this day that they just don't know this simple basic plumbing 101 says to me that they've never even studied any type of plumbing codes or even just ready plumbing for dummies guide about what not to do
@@jeffostroff I'm a weekend warrior and have never seen those flexible pipes before, but it was instantly obvious as to why they're a terrible idea. Common sense isn't as common as you might think.
I agree totally - but one thing has always escaped me about the flex trap thing ... why would an insurance company care? If it's leaking - it's VERY readily apparent where the leak is, and very easy and cheap to fix. It's on a sink, how much water can it leak before somebody shuts off the faucet? I just don't see it doing any real damage. If it does it's 100% homeowner neglect and should be excluded from the policy. My house had one I wasn't aware of until I had to get new insurance less than a year after I bought it. My agent is an idiot and failed to communicate effectively between me and underwriting - but he told me they didn't want to write the policy "because the plumbing is old" (house is 30 years old), he said thats all they said and didn't say what to fix - I had to grill him before he said "Insurance co's don't like plumbing over 50 years old", I said my house is only 30, he came back with maybe it's this flex pipe in the inspection report ... it was a HUGE fiasco. In the end it was NOT the flex drain, but somehow those idiots thought my plumbing was over 50 years old in a 30 year old house? I DID replace the flex because I don't want it there, but the moral of the story is that insurance companies nitpick some really stupid stuff sometimes that have no bearing on what could cause any real damage. Case in point - the entire reason I had to get new insurance - is that my current insurance required me to REPLACE a 10 year old roof that's in perfect condition ... over a screen porch in a concrete block house. As for their 50 year thing - are we supposed to jackhammer up the concrete foundation to replace all the pipes every 50 years "just because"? Insurance companies and their employees are generally criminally stupid.
Perry your oinfo is good except for the hwole first paragraph. It is NEVER s VERY readily apparent where the leak isto most homeowners clueless on home maintenance. The flood stays inside the vanity rotting out th ebottom of the vanity, then after that they start noticing the rot on the floor and the bottom of the vanity, then it spreads up the drywall, then soaks to the interior of the drywall, then you have moist humidity inside the wall space, then you have mold growing inside your walls for weeks until you begin to smell it. By then it's 10,000 to $30000. I have fixed numerous friend's bathrooms over the last 5 years, and even kitchen sink vanitis where it rots out of the bottom.
Thanks so much for this vid. I'd considered one of the flex-traps for a custom vanity where the sink hole was slightly offset. I ended up redrilling the sink hole to make it line up, and now I'm glad I did. Now my problem is an old cast-iron toilet pipe that extends up over the floor and was beaten down over the closet flange....
@@jeffostroff *sigh* Oh great. And if I wanted to replace that I'd have to rip up the entire floor and find out where it connects? I don't know, it's super-old and doesn't seem to have holes, fortunately. However, the pipe narrows as it goes down, causing all sort of other problems (like... trying to fit in a new flange, even one of those made to be inserted into those pipes).
As a contractor myself (I think my screen name mentions that) I just LOVE "those calls" that start out with the phrase "MY HANDYMAN.....". You and I both know we're going to be fixing some crazy installed things.
Took a little offense at the handyman slander (I do rental maintenance so I could be considered a "handyman"), but you also made me more confident in my plumbing abilities since I've never taken these shortcuts and I've always gone out of my way to remove and replace accordion traps. Good video
I am NOT running my drain (or anything else) inside and outside wall. ALSO, from a P trap, doesn't the pipe turn down? Like it drains by gravity, you know? I wish you could explain the method that water could be sucked from an S, but not from the P.
the water can't be siphoned from a P-trap because that horizontal p-trap arm that connects to the horizontal waste line going to the wall slows down the inertia of the water, thus breaking the siphoning effect. The S-Trap can siphon itself because the output of an S-trap usually goes straight down vertical, and when you have a long vertical drop after the S-trap with a short vertical drop before the S-trap, that is a recipe for increased water inertia, and so the it can siphon itself. I plan to do a video soon to show how S-traps can siphon themselves.
Water gets sucked out by siphonage not capillary attraction. ( not action ) . When a compression fitting is used for whatever reason , the ferrule is squeezed tight that it deforms the pipe enough so it can't come off. It's not supposed to.
Thank you. My son is replacing the vanity and the kit he found at Hpme depot was the one with the accordion type. We ended up buying the parts separately. This video justifies our choice. I will wathch you other video in the event I am off center
Man, this kind of stuff is informative but your perspective is a bit enraging. I've hired multiple plumbers in my life who show up to point out the code violations done by the previous plumbers I've hired who then go on to violate another code. Do you guys just go around screwing things up and blaming it on DIYers? Not two weeks ago I had a bonified plumber come in and glue a PVC waste pipe to an ABS waste pipe only to find out later that gluing those together was against code. I had to fix it myself, correctly. You need to be honest that the people who have the most to gain by cutting corners are the plumbers charging full price for bad work. A DIYer wants it done well and the good ones research how to do it properly using videos like yours.
What I've seen over the years with plumbers and electricians, is the person showing up to do the work is not the owner of the company, the one with the master plumbing or electrician license, the one with 30 years experience, who has been shot down by every city inspector possible during their career, and knows what mistakes to avoid, who really cares about and understands the plumbing codes. Chances are the low man on the totem pole who shows up to do your work does not know much about codes, and has not fully developed their skills yet. 2 years ago I had plumbers come to work on a friend's house, replacing his water main shutoff outside, on a PVC pipe. It leaked the next day and we had to call him back. For a no-brainer cement PVC fitting. Apparently he forgot you have to twist the fitting 1/4 turn while cement is still drying, and hold for a minute before letting go or PVC won't stick. Yup, I know how you feel, this is why I keep making these videos.
Try to: 1. Hire a contractor that doesn’t have any employees and does it him (her) self. 2. Make note of his or her name on the invoice he or she gives you. 3. Make sure that you get a written warranty for the labor that is at least as long as the manufacturers warranty for the part that he installs. 4. For this one you will need to get to know him: Make sure he comes back to correct any problems in a timely matter and doesn’t charge you extra if it’s his fault. Is he a Man of his word? 5. Don’t be embarrassed about watching him work. A good contractor likes being watched. If he doesn’t like you to watch him, don’t hire him. You may even learn something if you talk to him.
@@jeffostroff Another thing is plumbing codes vary state to state, my first house was an S-trap home and the problem was the velocity of the water going from the first floor to the basement where the main line was. Used one of these, not sure this is legal but it worked,www.amazon.com/Studor-20341-Mini-Vent-Adapter-Connection/dp/B00FQEX4UI/ref=asc_df_B00FQEX4UI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312186755465&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8975938221840903121&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003648&hvtargid=pla-434083428846&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=61740029466&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312186755465&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8975938221840903121&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003648&hvtargid=pla-434083428846 If you flush your toilet and you suck the trap dry you have some restriction in your vent. I hate compression fittings, I always solder because I seen to many leaks over the years, also many refrigerators come with those pinch valves,I hate them to.
I am not a plumber. But I had a plumber tell me you have to use a different glue for the ABS and PVC connection. I remember it was a green color. But who knows, the rules may have changed.
Lots of good information on things I come across quite often in my remodeling business. It gives me plenty of repair work. Though I have my own method of removing the brass sleeves, I think you missed something when using the Husky tool. The L arms should rest in the 2 notches which will allow the T handle to rotate easily. Once you start to snug it up, you can grip the L arms around the nut.
Great point! But, the newer instructions don't have you using those arms at all, just the middle part of the tool that screws ontot he compression nut.
Why can't I just cut the ring with hack saw blade? I just did that last week and replaced 6 valves and then I used new shark shut off valves I am not a plumber, I am a finish carpenter, but when I told the customer she needs a plumber she was like can't you do it all? I said sure no problem...I was planing to use a plumber...but boy they are supper expensive!!! I was little nervous because i might lose the job for over price it so I decide to take my chance and do it myself. And I did it!!! it took me 2 trips one to home Depot and one to Low's because the standard P trap was not long enough and the drain was way off center but with a lot of questions and some UA-cam videos (yours and others) and a lot of prayer to God!!!! I got it done!!! and I loved it because I learned something new and it was really fun job, it is like putting toys together, the 1st one was the hardest one and the longest because I had to read all the instructions even it was very simple and easy but I was little nervous but when I was done I made extra $400 to install the 3 faucets and customer pays for all the parts. Now I am thinking to learn plumbing because they make triple what the carpenter does for the day even though the carpentry much harder and it take triple the time to do the same job.
That's not a problem at all Dean, lots of guys cut them off, it's the norm in the UK, they cut a slit in the "olive" as they call it, and separate it with a flat head screw driver.
*6 yrs plumbing. Yeah, never liked saddle valves. It creates too much work that isn't neccesssary. Rather throw on a duo 3/8 by 1/4 inch angle stop and run the line. Great vid🤙
That’s why you need a properly vented system so that you have air movement. Then the s trap or p trap has no issue. Floor drains are a much more likely to allow gas as they set dry unless you pour water down them constantly. So many places I have been where gurgling occurs.
John your S-Trap may still self siphon, as the problem is mostly do the inertia of the water, a real long leg leaving the S-Trap, after a short leg entering the S-Trap.
i am a licensed Indiana plumbing contractor or more precisely a Master Plumber with 30+ years in the trade with a Indiana accredited 4 year apprenticeship program. #1 the ferrule compresses and bites into the copper tubing. It therefore makes an indentation and makes the ID of the tubing smaller. I agree that changing out those old fixture stops are a good idea And installing the 1/4 turn ball valve type fixture stops, removing the old brass compressed ferrule and applying a new one in the same spot is risky . I have never heard of anyone doing what you are doing! The copper tubing has been Compressed, the tubing itself is less than 1/2"id at that point. if you want to add a new valve solder on a copper coupling and tubing or a sweat 1/4 turn stop. Also the tool you are using is a knob puller for 2 handle lav., kitchen, or a old style tub/shower faucet. It was not made to yank off ferrules.. fyi -self piercing saddle tap valves drive me nuts! All too often a new home owner gets the water turned on to their new house then leave with the water on. Upon their return the wood floors are buckled, mold has set in from in the drywall soaking up the wall. Once installed you can not close them and that's why their illegal. The piercing tube is hollow, water flows before you raise the needle. They were used on the furnace's humidifier (AprilAir) originally and buttheads started using them for icemakers.
Marvin. I rarely see the ferrule leave an indent on the pipes, so I slide off the old one and the new one goes right there. If you are that worried about it, cut the copper pipe where the indent is, ream it out, and place the new ferrule. Second, you are wrong about the Husky tool, as is everyone else who comes to to correct me on it. If you look on the back of the package, they have 2 sets of instructions, one for a knob puller, and one for using it to pull off ferrules.
@@jeffostroff the next time you remove a old ferrule, run your fingers across it. If the compresstion fitting was tight, the ferrule has bite into the tubing. I have that type of puller and it is one of three types of pullers i have for pulling knobs. I bought it so long ago i do not know it's brand name. The problem i have had with it is the part i place under the knob unbending. This is due to mineral deposits from a leaking packing nut or bonnet nut allowing water to run over the splins on the valve stem that come in contact with the knob. It's not my favorite knob puller
Jeff - good tips on the illegal fittings, Thanks for all that! However, I'm pretty sure you're using the husky ferrule puller tool incorrectly. The two side straps that you're holding together by hand actually don't need to be held - if you look at the crossbar at the hand-side of the tool, you'll see there's two little notches, one on either end of the cross bar. The back end of the side straps fit into those notches. Once in place and tightened up slightly, you don't need to hold the pulling straps in place - just turn the screw. Also, setting the pulling straps into those notches provides a better angle at the work end and clears the bar so it doesn't bang into the straps while turning. Agree that the other two pulling tools are more elegant and compact, but the Husky tool can be made to work.
Tool #4 you are using incorrectly!!! Those two arms are for pulling handles, not for removing the copper seal. There are videos online on how to use it correctly.
Found your video interesting to watch. I can't wait to see your next video. Good Luck with the upcoming update. This video is really very interesting and effective
Why does he keep referring to "Handyman" as offenders of these violations? I've been doing handyman work for 12 years now and have never in my life used any of these products in this video nor even thought about using them. I've seen plenty of professional plumbers or contractors in general that have made code violations. So please stop pointing fingers at the hardworking and honest handymen.
Of course you never used these products. But that does not mean that handyman guys are not using them! They use them all the time. Even worse I can't tell you how many times in Home de[pot I see the plumbing aisle guys talking to a handy man and hand them a flexible p-trap
@@jeffostroff , hold on now, you are absolutely right, in that the “sales”, personnel, will offer. (Or hand), them to a handyman, yet that IS their job, … (to sell the items that the store stocks, which by the way, is NOT illegal), … perhaps, you should be pushing for your local/state/federal, political circles, … to change the manufacturing laws, prohibiting manufacturers from making them, … I’m surprised that the form fit manufacturer has not sued your butt for defamation of picturing/showing said company’s drain product, … at the big box store, but hey! Guess you been lucky, so far, … you are correct about the saddle valves, but then, I’ve never seen a ball cock valve fail, but have seen, the old style gate valves fail, … usually, due to the packing, but depending on the balance of the acidity of the water quality, … should the water quality be too alkaline, it will also eat away at the “gate” section, …
@@johnosman8971 Sue for defamation? How so? It's against code, and he showed the code. "You defamed our company by showing one of our parts is against plumbing code!" Yeah, good luck with that.
I use the traditional S trap in all of my installations and renovation work, they are the most reliable and sufficient it’s all about the flow a prevention of possibility with water ingression if you connect a 42mm Easyflo conventional waste pipe to a S-TRAP the speed of the waters return elevates by 60% the greater the number of degree being a 90/45.6 on the curvature with the bends flow will equally level out water pressure capacity inside the dual capillary action. I’m a gynaecologist by and I forgot what we where talking about 🤔
I've run probably 1500+ sink drains by now...they're not uncommon. Against code or not I'm js I haven't had a single one that I believed the accordion trap was the sole clog of the problem
Had a saddle fitting in basement that fed my fridge for water. Leaked a few times and replaced it myself with shark bite fitting. Problem solved. And the saddle was done by the builder and his “plumbers”.
Michael, you just highlighted a point I have been showing people for years with our videos. The builders, especially here in Florida use the worst contractors ever, doing the shoddiest work ever, and I always have to come in and clean up after their disasters years later.
Great video- really helps us DIY crowd. Funny why the items you show are still available if illegal? I saw all of them in my big box stores when installing my sink and vanity a few weeks ago. Did it the right way but had no clue the others were illegal to use. Interesting stuff. Thanks for the information!
I respect anyone who performs a job seriously, conscientiously, and professionally. The video comes across as a hit piece on the "handyman" which in my opinion is a legitimate trade. There are shoddy performers in every trade, career or profession so we should keep that in mind when offering criticism or suggestions. I have employed a handyman or two in the past who have found and corrected shortcuts or mistakes made by licensed personnel. A licensed plumber shouldn't be "painting with a wide brush"!
Thanks Jeff, all great info but in the case of the saddle valve you showed that its a code violation but you did not show what the correct procedure was which would have been very helpful as I have a couple of these in my house and I can solder. Thanks for your time anyway Jeff.
My preferred method for avoiding the saddle valve is to get a double angle stop under the kitchen sink, like this one below, then you don't have to solder, just tighten this onto the pipe. www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-1-2-in-Nominal-Inlet-x-3-8-in-O-D-Comp-x-1-4-in-O-D-Dual-Outlet-Dual-Shut-Off-1-4-in-Turn-Angle-Ball-Valve-KTCR1900DVX-R1/203309317
It's called $$$$$. Also, items such as the saddle valve can be used, as intended, in areas other than house plumbing. Are other type connections better for the long term, yes, of course, but the saddle valve does provide a quick, low flow, connection tap.
@@jeffostroff That's exactly what I was gonna suggest,either that or replace the sink valve with a 3/8"+1/4"outlet,depending on what you are hooking up.
I used a compression tee, with a rubber seal on the female side, just like the flexible lines themselves use: Plumb Works® 3/8"Female Compression x 3/8"Compression x 3/8"Compression Supply Tee at Menards www.menards.com/main/p-1444437569319.htm Or for ice makers (1/4" line) Plumb Works® 3/8"Female Compression x 3/8"Compression x 1/4"Compression Supply Tee at Menards www.menards.com/main/p-1444437569216.htm
Verry true those bendy pipes have what i think are called in gold mining are riffles. they cause the water to do little centrifugal spins as it flow,s and the bottom of the rifle is very slow moving or stagnant so anything heavier than water falls and stays in the bottom of the valleys. So if you are a gold miner you might want these ....
Thanks for bring to light of the duck puller. The problem with DIY people like myself is 1) Usually something breaks and we need to head off to the big box store since plumbing stores may have already closed, 2) The big box stores tend to stock very little variety of a part and may tend to be cheap ones, 3) Just not knowing the name of other parts. I to bought the Huskey puller during a repair in the evening. Also though, if I one isn't pulling off the compression rings frequently and only does it once a year, then the Huskey tool might be worth while even for the grief encountered during its use. It was very difficult to use as mentioned. Going to pick up the Duck Puller.
In the UK here. I've never seen those concertina traps used over here, though I'm sure you can get them. We commonly use them on our toilet wastes without issue. When used horizontally the valleys just fill with sediment, and eventually just form a smooth surface. Though the ridges are much finer. Though not the "professional" way, I've seen many saddle valves used and serviceable for years without issue. That Husky tool looks truly terrible as an olive (ferule) puller. I use a Rothenberger olive splitter that literally takes like 10 seconds to cut those things off. Or a Monument olive puller similar to the last tool you used. Your plumbing codes do seem to be rather overzealous over there. I can't imagine being told to change a trap, or my insurance policy would be invalid, how ridiculous! US plumbers also seem to be like UK electricians and gas fitters - rather arrogant when referring to handymen and DIYers.
You don't need a tool to remove a ferrule (olive in UK) Jeff - fine hacksaw across the width until nearly through, flat blade screwdriver in the cut, twist and it's off.
You guys are very talented over there. when you see some of the sloppy work I find in some properties, you'll not want to see certain people with a hack saw trying this delicate surgery. I'm more concerned that they'll cut through the pipe. At least the tools I showed you are effortless and quick with no hack sawing back and forth.
A Driver When I saw the video, I was going to recommend the same thing as you. That's how I do it as well. Got my small bladed bow hacksaw, never fails.
@@jeffostroff Perhaps, I have never tried that. But it only takes seconds really the way I have always done it. That ferrule is soft material, that allows a better seal and it's very thin. It doesn't take much to score the surface and pop it off. Like anything, once you do it for a while and develop your technique, it becomes automatic.
The reason they can sell the corrugated p trap and saddle valves is because they don't explicitly state what it should be used for. They sell screwdrivers, but nothing on a screwdriver states it cannot be used as a pipe.
Super helpful and informative! I’m just a homeowner, and don’t consider myself a diy-er. It is really great to understand what should not be used. Thanks!
I'm a home owner, and just use 15mm pipe cutter and deburring tool, then use a washing machine 15mm t-piece with a ¾"BSP valve that has compression fittings and either copper or brass olives (feral), quick, easy and reliable, did it for my water purification system and dishwasher, still going well, with no issues 5 or 6 years on.
The "codes" referred to are industry standards compiled by experienced professionals in each industry. When they say a device should not be used, it is because that device has an increased risk of causing a problem which outweighs the benefit of the risk. It is not based on the fact YOU have a valve that hasn't leaked for 20 years. YOU are not a "statistically significant sample". Sort of like saying "Smoking is not an increased risk of lung cancer because I have smoked for 40 years and I don't have lung cancer" or "Seat belts don't save lives because I never wear a seat belt and I have never been killed in a car accident" I do not assume you can grasp the concept of risk/benefit and "increased risk" so, to be clear... It does NOT mean "all these valves will leak". It does NOT mean "Most of these valves will leak" it MEANS "these valves will leak more often than the recommended alternative and the cost benefit, which is very small, does not make up for the increased risk." So, now, I think you may understand why your comment is irrelevant.
I am a fixer of all, I fixed a new chinese 3/4 pipe New with a hole in it , with a piece of hose and a hose clamp , going on 30 years ago . No plex in my house , only galvanised and copper flares . 3/8 copper Fast hot water no waste , Valves have a 1/4 inch restriction in them , No lost pressure each pipe from source to fauset . 3/8 copper can freeze and not break .
2:44 yeah, not quite capillary. Venturi effect, based on Bernoulli's Principle - fast moving fluid (such as air) drops pressure, creating suction. Air driven spray guns work like that.
In the UK we still use “S” traps and our regulations are very comprehensive. Our drainage systems must just be better coz they rarely cause a problem if the drainage is installed correctly
laernulieNlaernulieNlaernulieN Yup, ventilated drainage prevents syphoning of the trap. Proper downstream regulations prevent the problem so we dont have the problem. P trap doesn’t prevent that problem either: pipe goes “through the wall”, and guess what happens then?!
Andy Owens a P trap with a 90 degree elbow on the outlet is no different to an S trap really. Does their “plumbing code” ban them from doing that? Does the pipe have to go through the wall?
As long as the first part of the trap is deep enough, that air can be blown through the trap, and leave enough water to seal, you're golden. If you ever have a problem of the trap clearing like a toilet, just make the first drop deeper. If you look at it closely, it will do exactly what a toilet does when you flush. It's just that a toilet slowly fills the trap back up, which is the level of water in the bowl. If that ever happens in your sink, you can do the same thing, by just trickling in some water. I've never had it happen.
Like Andy says below, adequate ventilation will prevent syphons. In the US here, I believe when you "start" a horizontal run, you are required to have a vent nearby, within 6ft I think. Because a p-trap connects to a horizontal pipe, you can be sure that there will be a vent between that trap and another fixture (or else that fixture will be close and will use that same vent).
@@andyowens5494 What happens then, in theory, is that there remains enough horizontal pipe run between the P trap and the wall to prevent the siphon effect by leaving enough water in the bottom of the horizontal tubing to let the rushing air pass and go down the drain while the water that made it into the horizontal pipe section can flow back into the trap or at least slow down enough as it goes down the drain to prevent the rest of the water remaining that an S trap would pull out of the bottom loop from getting out of the trap. But the key is the venting downstream of the trap!!! Same thing happens with dam water level regulation with solid plumbing... If you want the pond to remain at a desired level but have a solid pipe letting excess water leave the pond without draining too much water from the pond but also not getting clogged by floating pond debris and also removing excess sediment from the pond bottom, it's common to run the solid plumbing from the bottom of the pond up and through the pond wall to the drainage area and even with 18 inch diameter solid plumbing, a simple 1/2 inch diameter hole in the top of the solid plumbing on the downstream side of the pond wall will allow enough air into the plumbing to keep the pond at the desired water height instead of allowing the solid drain line from being able to siphon the pond completely empty even though that solid pipe went through the pond wall and exits into a stream or river 30 or more feet lower than the bottom of the pond. Without that 1/2 inch diameter hole in the pond drain line, the pond would siphon completely empty fairly rapidly but with that 1/2 inch hole the pond water remains not much lower than the bottom of the horizontal section of pipe where the pipe runs from the pond side of the pond wall to the drainage area.
Appreciate the video! yay s traps in all my fixtures and a saddle valve for my previous fridge (inherited with the house). Love the 600 I paid for an inspection. I am a DIYer but like previous commenters I'm on here to know how to do it right. Thanks for the info!
The husky tool worked great, just remove those two hook like end pieces as they get in the way, but are not needed in this case. The part that screws in is the part that grabs the nut! However, the handle is not wide enough to give you the leverage you need, so I just had to add some leverage by putting some around it of small pipe on the ends, anything to extend and give you more leverage.
Handyman here. Something you didn't mention was the plumbing or building code is the MINIMUM requirement. If you're not doing the best job you can, you're over charging for your labor. I make it a habit to replace everything from the wall out when doing under sink work. It virtually eliminates callbacks.
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Jeff I just saw your video!! I live in Central Pennsylvania and I just bought an old house that was built in 1901 and this is EXACTLY the type of pipes that are in this house! I just had to call a plumber because after another plumber had installed s new toilet in our 2nd floor bathroom. Well after a week or so I noticed that when my wife did laundry in our 2nd floor laundry room that is also in our 2nd floor bathroom we noticed that methane smell!! So I called another plumber and he said we had a huge clog in our main water pipe. He had to use a very long electric snake to unclog that pipe! Well here he found that the previous owners had used baby wipes and that was what caused the clog to get bigger over time and when we had the other plumber install the new toilet it added to the problem! Thank you for your VIDEOS ! And for those SADDLE VALVES they're what alot of plumbers and handymen in this area use for the water lines to the refrigerators with the water and ice dispensers in it ! I have 1 of those refrigerators with water and ice in the door but I haven't had the water line hooked up yet on my refrigerator but that saddle valve is what a guy at Lowe's said to use on it! So now I know better thank you!! I will definitely be watching your videos from now on! Thank you!!
@@stanleywheeler404 Glad to make you an informed homeowner. Only know you have open the Pandora xbox where you are living with the horror of knowing you Could have this as well but at least you can warn your friends and family up there too.
No, I did not say ignore the warnings.... I was saying tone down the hype...
I hate those saddle valves also and they are used constantly!
12:00 in electronics the equivalent is ONLY temporary as it WILL fail over time ,,, & that's with audio connectors even
Very glad to see your comments about saddle valves. I had a bad experience with one of those years ago. When they get old and the rubber goes, they ALL eventually leak. Another problem you can have is if you put one on a pipe upside down (with the needle piercing the bottom of the pipe. If there is any sediment in the pipe, and there usually is, the sediment clogs the needle. I just rebuilt a house that had three saddles in the basement - two for humidifiers on the heating/cooling systems (don't get me started on those as they are just mold generators) and one for a refrigerator ice maker. Got rid of the humidifiers and their valves, and replaced the ice maker supply line with a T with a quarter turn shut off. Some of the stuff that the plumbers did when they built this place was unbelievable. They must have been real amateurs.
Yes, your method is the way to do it. That's what a real plumber would do when the come in to fix it.
Took a little offense at the handyman slander (I do rental maintenance so I could be considered a "handyman"), but you also made me more confident in my plumbing abilities since I've never taken these shortcuts and I've always gone out of my way to remove and replace accordion traps. Good video 👍🏻
Hi Jeff. First want to say I appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. I know the motivation is to educate people on the correct way to do plumbing. However, I do agree with a few of the other guys here, that while you may not intend to, you do come across with an attitude about "all" handymen and DIYers. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not some powder-puff with hurt feelings. I'm a "supposed-to-be-retired" general contractor with over 40 years in the business. I need to keep my hands busy so I now operate a Handyman business here in Reno, NV. There are a "few" of us out there that do excellent work and take a lot of pride in our skill and love to help people out. One of my values is that I believe a person can learn something new every day if they have the heart to learn. Heck, I've got 40 years of experience, which includes working right alongside my subs so I could learn some of the tricks that make the difference between an amateur and a pro. One of the first plumbing tricks I learned, like 40 years ago, is the "white bread" trick. I learned that from an 85-year-old-plumber that was doing some side-work for me. I had a dilemma, you know what it was, so I asked a professional plumber and he was more than happy to share his "secrets" with me. I won't go into detail about the trick, I'll leave it to you; you're the plumber! I also know a lot of code. But am I a scholar on the plumbing code? No! I didn't know about the S-trap. Now I know, thanks to you! Maybe in the future, you can structure your words so they don't belittle the DIYer. After all, they are also just trying to learn something new. And maybe say, "Some" handymen :) BTW - I agree with you on that horrible Husky Sleeve Puller. (I've always called it a ferrule) I also bought that, because I was on my way to a late-night emergency call and it was all I could find at Home Depot. It's awkward, no leverage, and clumbsy, no matter which notch you use. I personally like the English Tool Co. Dual Thread puller. Pretty much looks like the last one you demonstrated. Just couldn't tell if yours has their patented dual thread nut. Thanks again for taking the time to teach. You've got a new subscriber!
Thanks for your insight Dan and yes I also use the English tool company ferrule puller and I also put up a video in the past about the plumbers bread trick which was meant of course with a bunch of arrogance from some of the pro plumbers. I will be uploading a video soon that compares several options for removing a stuck ferrule.
I am a plumber and see these parts installed all the time. Drives me crazy. I am sending instructions on how to install an undersink drain along with this video so that they know what they can and can't do and why. Thank you.
Glad to help Connie!
Interesting video. I'm a DIYer who used one of those accordion pipes one time. I wasn't proud of it, and wouldn't do it again, but it was easy. It's been in service for over ten years with no problems, so I'm in no hurry to replace it. Funny thing is that it isn't really needed. It's a pretty straight run. I was too lazy to drive to the hardware store to get a regular piece of pipe.
Dan, at least you're aware of it and know to be on the lookout for leaks, and you can change it whenever you want with minimal effort. Some of the older ladies we try to help don't know anything about what to do, or can't afford to hire someone to fix it. You're one of the lucky ones with no failures.
@@jeffostroff I suppose the irony is that the more you stretch it, the less restrictive it would be. Still poor though.
I am so glad I found this video. We are in the middle of a kitchen and bathroom remodel and our contractor installed a form n fit p trap under our vanity. I checked Ohio pluming codes and it is the same as Florida. We paid way to much money for this kind of work. I will be calling him Monday morning to address this. Thank you for this great video.
Awesome, glad you checked on the codes, not everyone does, certainly not the installer.
As a first time home owner I have noticed many shortcuts taken by a DIY kind of person, particularly in the plumbing aspect. The house had one of those accordian style traps in the master bath, the inspector reccomended replacement so I did. There is also a saddle valve tapped underneath the kitchen sink. I previously didn't know this was against code (apparently my home inspector didn't either), thank you for sharing this information. It hasn't started leaking yet, and I'm going to get it out of there sooner than later.
Glad to see you're getting smart about all this. Just monitor the saddle valve, you can change it at your leisure, or if you do a remodel. We are remodeling my friend's kitchen right now, will be changing out all the valves to new water valves. Also a few weeks ago we uploaded a video on how to avoid the Saddle Valve, using 2 other alternatives, see it here: ua-cam.com/video/WKKrUINQm_U/v-deo.html
I have worked in the home improvement industry for over 40 years. I am a Master Handyman. Which means I have learned building codes and know when to call in Professionals if for no other reason to know it will conform to local codes. I have worked in Hardware stores also. So many times I catch DIY'ers and so called Pros trying to find things that will make the job easier. Usually after I explain why, they thank me for not making a mistake. Plumbing has always been an interesting area. As you know and have seen there is no end to the senseless creativity one can run into. You have my full support in educating people how and why things are done the way they are done and why there are codes to make sure they are done correctly.
Thanks Michael!
Im a journeymen plumber here in cali, and been in the trade for many years. This guy is right on point with his info. Saddle valves are junk that leak even you lightly bump accidentally especially if theyre corroded. Sadly yes home dump does sell these products. Any handymen trying to make a quick buck will sell you these items not knowing how long it will last or by a few months from now your gonna cause water damage somewhere because all these are cheap and end up leaking. Now with all the damages because a Diyer or a handymen caused you now have to call your home warranty company. Your home warranty company is gonna send their plumber and either say this is the home owners bad or its wear and tear.
Home Dump! that's good one I had not heard before. I usually call them Home Desperate or Home Cheapo.
In a tight situation were my parts house is closed...I'll take home dump over lowes...lol
The reason why there is so many DIY plumbers is because plumbers charge so dam much for a simple fix or change 🤷♂️
I think everyone should know how to do simple stuff, then when you need to solder in a new main valve outside, you call in the pros.
@@jeffostroff Totally agree with you on that on
Your house is your investment. Do you want it done right?? Or half ass?? Plumbing prices are what the living wage is for where you and they live. If not they should be reported to the BBB. I'm fare with my customers. I just don't work for free. I have to eat and pay bills just like any other business or trade. Sorry. Not to be funny but, I like steak and lobster just like everyone else does.
Obviously you are not a business owner. Hopefully your paying for experience and expertise. What is your time worth at you job ?
Incorrect. You pay the right price for someone else's skill and knowledge. They weren't born with these skills, they have to train to do it. I bet you wouldn't use the same theory if you had to go to court, ie, you could always try do it yourself for free.
Gawd i wish i watched this video a month ago. Had a stuck ferrule at a tenants house. I didn't know what it was called or that it could even come off. I changed the valve and couldnt figure out why it was still leaking. Called a plumber and he took a look and said the teflon was the problem. Oops. I took off the teflon but it leaked even more. Thought i damaged the valve with the teflon so i changed it again! Lol it still leaked! I figured it was that screw on cap that i couldnt take off so i gave up and called a different plumbing co. And they took off that ferrule thing that i didnt know could come off. They used that blue handle pliers though. They didnt use the ones you showed. Expensive lesson. Now i know what to buy and how to use it. Thank you so very much for putting these videos out. Im learning alot!
Awesome Angela. The plumbers that used the channelocks from what you described, that is a risky move because you can deform the pipe when you squeeze tight around the ferrule, rather than pull the ferrule straight out off the pipe from behind it with a duck puller tool or the Husky tool. Certainly a novice should not attempt that trick without a lot of practice in being gentle, and gently coaxing that ferrule off the pipe. Especially when it is stuck. the more stuck it is, the more force you have to use with pliers to try to remove it, which is why having that specific tool for this job works best
I love videos where someone makes a point and then has a source to back that point up. Well done. With that said, I have no idea why i'm watching this, but heck, I learned something.
Good learning experience, thanks for watching
Been a plumber for 20 years. I use #4 to remove vintage handles off of tub valves and lavatory valves that are period correct for their home. And they help to not damage the finish.
Yes, I would imagine they will grip behind those larger handles a lot better than that mall area on the back of a shut valve nut.
I am working as building maintenance. What you taught us here really really amazing. I loved your presentation. I am always struggling with all you mentioned and I loved your recommendations. I loved your English and surprised you bought a tool just to teach. Thank you so much. Aboma
Aboma, thanks for watching, and I'm glad this helps
My man is a professional plumber... This information will help me understand the conversations we have when he talks about work. Thank you 😁
I'm a youtube certified accordion P-trap professional installer. And I love those things.
Come to the dark side!
I have form and fit p-trap underneath my bathroom sink.
I very grateful to my plumber , I ve done jobs before like digging up and replacing a septic tank , sewer line , water heaters but to go under a house with limited crawlspace and replace water lines, or plumbing in historic districts these guys have my praise
You know it!
I do a lot of basic/moderate-level-difficulty DIY projects around my house. This video has been an eye opener for me. I didn't realize that HD and Lowes would sell non-code compliant products (I checked, and they are still selling a few of the products in your video). Thanks for an informative video.
Glad to help nate!
Of course Lowes, Home Depot sell this junk. They are not in the business of protecting adults from themselves.
I am general contractor, never used saddle valves myself, I remember when I moved to my house I had 3 of them and my first thought was to replace them, but that I thought "let's see how long they are going to last?" - 19 years later: not a single drop of water, not a single problem ....
Christopher, yes it seems to be hit or miss, some people have problem, while others get lucky. It's like the 80 year old guy who smoked all his life doesn't get lung cancer, but a girl in her 30 dies from it.
As a home inspector and dreaded "handyman" I see HVAC guys install those all the time on whole house humidifiers. We always recommend replacing them as they have a tendency to leak more often. Also, take it easy on us handy guys...we're no all idiots and sweating copper & gluing PVC isn't rocket surgery!
@@dleggs7038 you got it!
@@jeffostroff , appreciate your content and time you put in to the vids.
I had one in my home when I bought it.. They tapped it for the humidifier at the furnace.. Never leaked or had a problem for the 8 yrs I owned the home. But the dam water heater decided to leak 4 months b4 I sold the house.
I just came across this, watched it and immidiately subscribed. Now, I live in Europe so we don't have the same codes (S bends are allowed here) but all that I've seen so far makes perfect sense to me. I have remodelled quite a few houses in my time but the one thing I ALWAYS do is to get a qualified plumber and electrician to look over my work before I close anything.
Thanks for this video, it was enlightening.
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
A lot of professionals rig stuff up and take short cuts, not just handymen. Conscientious people do it responsibly.
BINGO!!
As a handyman I've repaired lots of bad work done by licensed plumbers and electricians.
Mobile home companies pass crap materials and workmanship all the time too lol
"Handyman special" is a term used in the industry to refer to work done by someone who doesn't know what they are doing and does not necessarily refer to handymen. As a Florida plumber I have seen a lot of shoddy work from all over the spectrum.
If your definition of "professional" is "Gets paid for doing it", yes, you are correct. That's a pretty low standard.
When I remodeled my bathroom I taught myself (from youtube videos) to sweat pipe fittings so I sweated on threaded adapters on all the water outlets.
It's a handy skill to have for DIY and if the valve ever needs to be replaced, it can be done in minutes.
That's a great idea!
It's sooooooo much easier to solder new stuff than old stuff.
You'll be heating for a lot longer, boiling the lines dry!
My plumber never returned to re-work my plumbing after they installed a dishwasher. So I got sick of not using the new dishwasher. I wish I found your videos on the j-flex no-no before I did the job. It works, but I had a feeling it wasn’t right. Thinking to myself the ridges are going to catch everything. I’ll re-do the plumbing and know what to do thanks to your other video on off-set drain connections.
Found and subscribed to your channel due to your outstanding Champlain Towers reporting. Now when everyone says “you tube it” for home repairs - you are the go to! Thanks!
A previous owner did a whole bunch of work on my house around 2007, and we discovered it about two and a half years ago. The bathtub drain clogged about once a week. When I had the bathroom remodeled, it had one of those flexi drain pipes. The downstairs laundry drained into an S trap which we discovered after the drain clogged and soaked the downstairs. When we removed the damaged drywall, the nearby bathroom had upside down plumbing to the shower. Someone clearly did a fantastic job!
On bathtubs, you usually find the overflow drain is a flexible pipe, which is OK, since if it mainly used as an air vent. The only time that pipe would ever see water is during an overflow. But if the main tub drain at the bottom of the tub was flexible, then you have a problem for sure, that is a clear violation of plumbing codes.
@@jeffostroff Oh it was flexi all the way to the drain pipe running down through the wall. I'm pretty sure the whole thing would have failed code even with a normal piece of pipe.
@@Beastphilosophy Yikes, so it looks like the previous "plumber", for lack of a better word was too lazy or did not know how to cement PVC fittings and pipes together. I hope you had it replaced with the real deal when you had the remodel done. The other thing that makes me cringe when I see these stories is all the wasted junk that has to end up in the landfill because the job is essentially being done twice now.
I've used the faucet handle sleeve puller, tool #1, to remove a sleeve that was stuck pretty tight. But I did not use the two side brackets, I removed them, and used the tool in a similar fashion as tool #3 in your video. I inserted the pointy tip of the tool into the pipe coming out of the wall and started threading the nut onto the threaded end of the tool by hand. Once it was too tight to thread the nut by hand, I used a wrench to turn the tool and thread the nut all the way out along with the sleeve. I did not have any room to turn the tool handle because the old valve was behind a stand type sink and so I used a wrench to turn the tool. I think the side brackets are supposed to be used for pulling a faucet handle, not for pulling a sleeve (ferrule).
Yes we ran into problem because with truly stuck ferrule sleeves, this tool can be a problem.
Yes. Remove the top part no need for arms - you are not supposed to use them as you aren’t pulling the nut. There are videos on line how to use this type of tool to remove a compression ring.
Thank you, I've come to learn that the path of least resistance and/or going the cheapest route is often not the answer. You've proved that in 4-different ways, and there's more....good job setting us straight!
Thanks glad to help!
In 40 years as a lawyer I have never heard of a home owners insurance company threatening to cancel a policy over using a flex p trap or anything remotely similar. I think you are out in left field overstating your case. I do agree you should not use these quick fixes.
John the reason you as a lawyer have not heard of this before is because it's not a legal issue. You can call me out in left field all you want, but I've been called into 3 different widow lady friend's houses because their insurance company performed a 4 point inspection on the house and called them back and threatened to cancel the insurance if the code violations were not removed. I had to take photos of the repairs to send into the insurance companies. I certainly did not imagine that. This is not a legal matter which is why you never saw it before. I would still rather have the insurance companies force me to remove code violations, than to reject my claim because of code violations.
The home insurance companies make their own rules. I had an approved wood stove installed to meet all the requirements of the building code in my workshop. I changed insurance companies one year to achieve a better rate. After four months on the new policy, the insurance company requested an inspection of the home, since all the information exchanged when the policy was established had been done verbally and through email. They said it was "just standard procedure to randomly physically check new home policies". Following inspection by the insurer's "independent risk management company", the insurer demanded that the wood stove be decommissioned within 30 days. I confirmed with the building inspector that the installation met or exceeded all of the current building codes for safe operation. There was no code violation. The insurance company continued to demand that the stove be removed or my homeowner's policy would be voided. They also noted, that no other insurance company would write a policy following the cancellation of this policy. The wood burning appliance was removed and replaced with a propane heating system at a cost of $4,000.00 . Yes....Insurance companies are making their own rules.
@@chrisgraham2904 you should have just got a new policy b4 the one in place was canceled. there are many insurance companies out there
@@mikemichaelz135 It was the new insurance company that threatened to cancel the policy. I contacted nine other insurers and all refused to write a policy with a wood stove heating the shop. One stated that they would consider a policy if they first did their own inspection, but also advised that the policy would likely carry a premium of about $1,000.00 per year.
Insurance companies dont survey the house for breaches of code. The Local Planning/Building Regulation Authority does that when it signs it off.
In any case, if the house was built with P traps prior to the changes in code then they are legal.
Florida does not use the Uniform Plumbing Code. The original base code for the Florida Code was the International Plumbing code. Your video is very informative. Many people ask why the big box stores are allowed to sell products that are banned by the codes, the answer is because the code does not regulate product sales, only product installation.
Yes this is what we have answered many people in the comments
Studying for my exam in Florida and I got scared for a minute….lol thanks for reconfirming Florida does in fact use the IPC
Thank you ! I am a DIYer but I still like to follow the codes, I appreciate your advice. I am also thankful for your explanation of the codes.
I've looked down the thread here and several Brits have rightly commented that the quickest and easiest method of removing a ferrule (olive) is to cut a diagonal groove across it with a junior hacksaw until nearly through, then inset a flat blade screwdriver in that groove and twist. Replies have suggested this may be in some way difficult, or liable to damage the pipe. It takes only 7 or 8 passes with the saw to give the depth of cut needed and it pops off easily. There is no need for special tools which will often not fit in the kind of restricted spaces plumbers work in all the time anyway, when such a quick, simple and foolproof method is available to anyone regardless of skill level.
"regardless of skill level.", LOL John I've seen some really stupid people out there. Even good friends who are dumber than a door nail that I've gone to help do repairs in their house, they could never handle that. Sure it's a good idea for those who know how to do it, but not for Joe Sixpack
Interesting on the S-trap. Here, the standards are written to control venting of the stacks instead to prevent the trap being sucked. Either by having a vent stack nearby, or air admittance valves, and advising on the size and location of vent lines and valves.
Geezzz my 92yo mothers house has the S trap. The trap came apart from the pipe exiting the stink. It's a goner.
Problem is...someone glued the nut on the part before the curve into the floor. The house is in ill condition and not worth living in but she won't move. So I'm gonna just do what I can with a P trap. Making Sure of the vent and adequate water fill. I guess....
P.s. I'm an arthritic riddled 64yo woman who used to do it all. Mom doesn't realize what it does to me but I'm the only of 3 who helps her.
I hope you enjoyed the book and now I can't remember the purpose of this DIY. 🤷♀️
Have a blessed day!
Form n fit trap is used by my plumber a few days ago on a new sink. He is a licensed plumber from Thumbtack. Thanks for this video. I asked him to come back and fixed it and he did. Now it is all good.
Bad move, he should have known that is banned by plumbing codes in all 50 states
Found your channel about 2 months ago and love the content! Scored the craftsman 105 pc gun metal set for $47.98. And found out about the Lowe’s 10% off cards on EBay.
Now, the items not to use for plumbing. Really liked the wrench in this video so I bought from your description. Thanks so much Jeff! Can’t wait to see your next video!
Glad to help Joseph!
$40 for a small cast cylinder sleeve and a bolt. That's why people go for $5 saddle valves - we can't all make $60 an hour like plumbers.
That was really interesting. I don't know how I got here.
Reading and understanding the code is important but your explanation helps us understand why the code forbids certain things.
Thanks
Glad it was helpful! thanks for watching BY.
I’m an electrician not a plumber. Obvious to see that these plumbing solutions are crap. Lol. Thanks for the video. I should do one for electrical crap out there.
Eileen Kelly you should.
The same crackhead that did the plumbing in my pace also did the electrical. Green wires being used for the neutral. Exterior junction boxes without a binding ground wire. The circuit my fridge and microwave are plugged into are spliced into a knob and tube wiring (Not to mention my well pump is spliced, yes spliced, into the same circuit inside the sub panel), 220 volt wires to my stove are spliced into the original wiring that goes through an interior junction box mounted on the exterior of my house (and the splice is wrapped with electrical tape) which gets watered with my sprinkler system, Black wires being used for a neutral, a cut live wire protruding through the wall behind my water heater just hanging in the breeze, tandem breakers in a sub panel clearly not rated for them, Breakers from different manufacturers used in the sub panel.....
I can go on and on. I'm not a licensed electrician but I just spent $1000 in just parts to fix that crap.
I just ordered 2 AAVs to fix the non vented plumbing in my bathroom and kitchen and the S trap.
If I ever find that stupid son of a b*tch who remodeled this house to flip it I'm going to sue him
jburr36 report it to your electrical safety authorities and get a lawyer.
@@ladyluck5248 I'll deal with that after I do the repairs. I didn't even realize these issues existed until I inspected my sub panel when considering designing and pricing a solar power system.
Seeing that mess just made me sick to my stomach. I do have pictures
I'm a retired electrician. I don't do videos but if I did the first one would be about the dangers of plugging a generator into a dryer plug. I've seen people do this and as you know, it can cause linemen down the road to have really bad day.
Linemen should and do ground every conductor before they touch it but this could energize lines all over the neighborhood unless the main breaker is off. Code requires a permanent mechanical interlock to prevent generators from sending power to utility lines.
I have changed many water shut offs over the years that were compression, and I have never once needed to remove that copper sealing ring that is stuck in place. I just leave it as it is and reuse the original nut and ring. I make sure that it's tight....works every time, and never leaks. If it wasn't leaking before, it won't be leaking after you change it if it is done right. The nuts and rings are all the same size for 1/2" copper pipe
Yes indeed, nothing wrong with doing it your way as long as you re-compress nice and tight and no leaks. I just like to start with all new blank canvas, all parts brand new, the sleeve has only been compressed once, when I compress it brand new. Besides, each new angle stop comes with a new compression sleeve so why not use it. Also, many properties I work on are foreclosures, or neglected properties, prior water damage, high moisture in bathrooms, where the angle stops have gotten corroded, and the copper pipe coming out of the wall is corroded, so I remove everything, and "sand it" with Scotchbrite to polish it off nice and shiny brand new copper, then install all the new parts. Looks like a million bucks, and top it off with a brand new decorative flange as well.
Exactly why go to the effort. I have also found if they have a very small leak, if you leave it tight overnight they often seal up. The metal must creep under the stress and seal. Found the same with black pipe and gas lines too, though it has to be a really small leak to have a chance as steel doesn't creep as much.
40min to get the compression ring off I would have just hacksawed it most of the way thru and broken it open in 15min. Cut at an angle and don't nick the pipe.
I always put npt ends for the stop valves and then I don't have to fiddle with those compression rings. NPT is easy to replace and they never leak. I have had too many compression ones that do leak.
@@court2379 I also like to test all of my installations with hot water flowing through the pipes afterwards and especially the plastic cups it makes everything expand out and then shrink back later when you switch to the cold water that were you have fully exercised the installation.
You will someday run into one where it WAS leaking at the nut, and the nut is corroded, and there is no way you can re-use it. Typically if there's room, you can just cut off the pipe and use the new compression ring with a new nut. If there's not room, you'll have to do something else, such as try to remove the ring and get the new one to hold onto the (often corroded) pipe, or use a push-on fitting, or tear into the wall to replace the pipe and leave enough pipe sticking out for several refittings after cutting the ring off.
On commercial properties, I found old valves/nuts that did not match the threads on new angle stops. I like to start out new, but sometimes would reuse a nut and ferule if it would seal up. The way to remove a ferule is with a professional splitting tool. It is also heavy cast aluminum with a nipple to go inside the copper tube and a blade that is turned into the ferule. Small channel lock pliers easily turn the bolt on the blade (it isn't a hex, but has external splines). Far too often, the old valve was installed so tightly that it deformed the tube and it wasn't possible to seat a new ferule on it.
If there is enough tube, I would cut behind the old nut and use a new compression valve or just sweat on a 1/2" threaded male copper adapter and use a threaded valve. Property managers were happy to have us replace all of the valves and supply lines when getting a suite ready for new tenants, as the bill for us to professionally clean up, treat, and repair water damage was much higher. The buildings were built with flexible hard lines built into the angle stops and they were prone to leaking.
You are freaking awesome, I love when people do things right the first time and share their knowledge with us that want to do the same
Im a DIYer and its funny to see the people that always have something negative to say, but I say "where's your video?" If they have so much to say, obviously they can do it to perfection teach us lowly peasants, haha!
Ive only watched 3 of your videos because of plumbing problems my family and I are having, you have integrity and care about us and the customers you have, I trust the information you give and because of that, you've earned my subscribe, thank you💚
Please don't throw all DIY'ers and Handymen into the "subpar" "don't know what they're doing category". There are DIY'ers and Handymen that will do a better job than a certified plumber and vice versa. This is not the case with just plumbing either.
As an example, you stated the plumbing code is required in all 50 states. That isn't correct. My state, Missouri leaves it up to the individual counties who then either adopt a code or let the individual municipalities choose. In my municipality the code is the 2009 version, in the adjacent municipality it's 2006. There are adjacent counties that do not require it at all. I know this and I'm a DIY'er.
I am remodeling my house, as a DIY'er and even though my code is 2009, I'm using 2018 for improved methods and safety.
Good points. I'm a DIYer & I know the plumbing code better & take more care than the local plumbers. I saw the botched job the "master" plumber did at my friend's house & it was horrible. Dude put the trap on a washing machine standpipe under the floor & busted a hole in the brick wall & didn't seal around it and then had a very short run of PVC up & slapped a crappy cheap AAV on it-- OUTSIDE. He didn't have to run it through the roof but he could have run it around the soffit & above the roof. He also didn't slope the soil pipe at all so it won't drain properly. The other plumber (there are only two licensed plumbers in the area) uses the wrong fittings-- will use sanitary tees on their backs when he should be using wyes.
Not to mention that once all the things mentioned were at one point completely viable fixes or solutions for challenges. Those taps for water lines are still commonly used. If they were totally illegal to use they wouldn't be commercially available today.
BigBrotherIsTooBig
Absolutely!
I’m a DIYer in Missouri, too and I take a lot of time and pride in my work. Plumbers and other professionals are there to make a maximum amount with minimum effort and spend as little time as possible.
Many DIYers study the code and research the best methods to complete whatever has to be done. We also have the luxury of spending as much time as necessary to do it perfectly.
Plus, we’re often working on our own homes which motivates us to do it right even more!
@@agentone8550 That's not completely true. Stores still sell things that are code violations (such as S-traps) because there is still a demand for them. In some places AAVs are banned but are still sold. The main issue is they won't pass inspection (and may lead to leaks or failure of the DWV system), but people will still use them either for convenience or out of ignorance. Unless the manufacturing was banned, they will still be available. Doesn't mean it is good to use them. So long as a profit can be made, companies will make things and sell them regardless of whether or not they are to code or work properly.
Yea bullshit..
Stuff all this soldering bring on the push fit fittings, I've used a similar saddle type valve assembly on refrigeration pipework, never had a problem, no leaks and I believe 20 years on still OK
- - maybe if you never turn on or off they be OK.
Saddle valves are not hermetic seals and do have a slow bleed through the gasket. Saddle piercing valves are only used today for refrigerant recovery on small hermetic sealed refrigeration systems such as window AC, refrigerators, ice machines, and water coolers.
Speaking of Arrogance....
I do both Home Inspections and Handyman work. Electrician by trade, but can do just about everything in the construction industry by gaining experience.
I'm home inspectors are not "code " inspectors, however I call the flex pipe out Everytime, and Everytime I get flack, normally from "flippers". Last week, I was asked to replace a saddle fitting. I told customer I would replace with a different type valve. "SHARK BITE", because I explained the issues with saddle valve, just like you did in this Video. (Today is first time seeing this) I guess I do need to practice my people skills, because I don't want to be perceived as an arrogant "professional" as yourself. Man, you should never feel you are above anybody. We are all in this grind together.
Best of luck.
Thanks for the insight Travis
As a plumber for 30+ yrs. I have to agree with almost everything you taught in this video. What I didn't understand was two-fold. Why would anyone try to use something as flimsy as a handle puller to try to remove a compression nut and ferrule? Why pull it in the first place? Dope and tape on the new angle stop will merry up very well with the old nut and ferrule. Only time I've ever change the compression ferrule is on very old copper and there is damage to the copper or old ferrule. Many times having to resort to getting my tiny tim out and saw off the old ferrule because of too little copper exposure between the wall escutcheon and end of the copper. Show em how to do that...not easy but, I've done it many times.
Hilmer: Husky touts this tool as a handle puller and a sleeve puller. They even have 2 sets of instructions on the back for whichever mode you use it in. A lot of properties I deal with have corrosion on the pipes or the old valve stop, so I always change the ferrule by policy anyway. The new valve comes with a new ferrule so why not use it. I always remove it, polish off the copper pipe nice and shiny, and install everything brand new again.
I stopped using compression stops a couple of years ago. Sharkbites at the toilet. Easy to change. Also can take it off to change the escutcheon. Sometimes I use a sweat on stop, because it can be sweated off. Biggest problem is idiots cutting the stub out off all the way back at the wall. That pisses me off cuz I use chrome plated supply lines at toilets.
@@ChrisGilliamOffGrid sharkbites at the toilet is hack come on man
@@ronmexico79 Nope. I do million dollar homes. The competition stubs out blue PEX and uses crimp on stops at toilet, with braided line. That is garbage. A copper stub out, sharkbite stop, and chrome supply line is by far the best looking way to do it.
I hate how Home Depot misleads people who wouldn’t know better
I also hate handymen who give my business a bad name! I’ve worked for many companies in many trades and through hard honest work I’ve made a business for myself. But there are those who think you can just call yourself a handyman and watch UA-cam videos for all your info! Ugh! Thanks for the informative videos!! 🤘😷🤙
Good to hear from one of the smart ones! I know they gotta earn a buck too, but if many of them would leave plumbing and electrical out of the equation they would be OK.
You are so right. I only learn how to do it myself because I can't afford to pay professionals for their expertise. If I gain experience, the less trial and error, the happier I am with the savings.
Saturday morning, kids and wife asleep....and me??, I am watching plumbing videos for no reason what so ever. Cheers
Rise and shine!
Great tips and info Jeff; I’m forwarding this link to friends. Almost every second house has a Saddle Valve installed for a humidifier and a fridge, some installed by the builders in new houses here in Canada.
Q: This week I got my basement kitchenette countertop and sink renewed. I am going to replace the flex hoses. One of the 1/4 turn compression valve is passing very little water at close position, no leaks though. I am hesitant to replace it because the pipe will need cutting which will shorten it for future repairs. 99.99% of the time the valve remains in open position. If needed, I can shut off the main. Your advice is appreciated.
If you have to cut the pipe cut the pipe you can always solder on new sections of copper pipe to make up for it but in my opinion getting rid of the saddle valve and putting in a real valve makes the most sense.
@@jeffostroff I agree 100%. Some friends didn’t like the advice by saying no one uses Copper anymore, we have plastic pipes:
Compared to copper, I hope these plastic pipes would last for 100-200 years otherwise it’s going to be a big problem.
I have 3 failure examples.
1) Kitec pipes
2) Newly invented made in USA glue/sand mixture to hold the reclaimed land of Palm islands in Dubai, a failure.
3) A very special epoxy glue made in Germany with LIFETIME WARRANTY. In 1974 we used it in making Onyx marble gift items with 24K Gold plated fittings for export. Luckily, I still kept some items with me. After 30 years, some of them simply separated from the glue. That export company does not exist anymore 😊
Great information....hopefully the DIY people will learn from this.
One thing to keep in mind for your future videos....Methane gas is Odorless. Methane is usually present in sewer gasses but it's not the one that smells bad.
and it's odorless and tasteless, so I wonder which gas it is that we smell when we open up the p-traps
jeffostroff Sulphides. Most commonly hydrogen sulphide.
natural gas (methane and other hydro-carbons) service has an odorant mixed into the service lines, so we tend to identify a gas leak with that gas smell. That's done on purpose :)
I agree with Andy Owens, some kind of sulfur compound will be what smells.
It's great that you take the time and effort to share information like these parts, relevant codes, and to question what the box stores are selling us. Probably just personal preference but the repetition, for example when you restate Florida plumbing code is using broader standardized plumbing codes, detracts from the content. Also consider that when you assume, like at 6:10, that something is because of price or because the (entire) group you don't like uses it, it doesn't benefit anyone but that arrogance previously bemoaned. It doesn't really matter what group someone belongs to IF they ignore a code or do shotty work. Let the trolls do the trolling.
Venturi effect, lad. Capillary action is how solder wick works, or a paper towel. I am enjoying this!
Watched further and the floss was also an excellent example of capillary action.
How does that occur with typical "waxed" dental floss??
@@uhmgawa6533 Venturi effect is pressure differential causing flow, like a carburetor. For an s-trap the drain is the carb jet, and the toilet drain or otherwise is the bore of the carb.
Capillary action is surface tension causing the flow, maybe with a slight side of gravity siphoning. Waxed dental floss probably makes it worse, it's hygroscopic so the water beads up and increases the tension all the more. Like watching raindrops on the windshield, they sit and pool till they get too big, then they streak down all at once, draining the entire drop. Surface tension held it there, and surface tension drags it all down.
In most states, insurance carriers must issue 'legal notice of cancellation' which is customarily 60 days notice. So they may give an insured 48 hours notice of their intention to issue a 60 day notice of cancellation but they can not get off the policy in 48 hours.
It's funny how once in a while someone comes in here with this same phrase and thinks they are a lawyer, LOL. Otis, this verbiage is for when companies decide not to renew like here in Florida all the time insurance companies drop you because they don't want to cover hurricanes anymore. What we are talking about is code violations, or you are violating the terms of the insurance policy by using parts known to cause floods. When you violate the terms of the insurance policy, they can drop you immediately. Also, many people I know who had flood damage had their insurance companies just plain old decline claim for these very reasons, so it does you no good to be paying for the insurance anyway that you can't use anyway.
I had assumed parts sold were approved. Thanks.
Glad I could help
Whoa whoa back the truck up. A few years ago I was told I had to install S traps instead of P traps that's coming from my city inspector. I'm in Michigan.
that is because you are in Michigan...
FYI, not all handyman do bad work as you say with that "handyman special" dig you mentioned on the accordion quick fix. I've been a handyman for many years and have had to correct mistakes that supposid licensed and professional plumbers had done only to have the customer complain to me about their shoddy work. I'm doing a remodel now that a previous plumber used that exact P-trap on a bath vanity just to cut corners. Not only that, but he re-ran all new plumbing in this house and didn't even remove the old supply valves and it looks like crap next to the new ones.
Well, you shouldn't be offended, because you're not the guy that installs those incorrect parts. But, I also doubt whether real plumbers put those accordions in. Maybe they were put in after fact by someone else? Unless the city inspectors missed it... But yes you're right plumbers do sometimes get sloppy, keep in mind most of the construction of new houses might be permitted by license plumbers, but their worker bees are sometimes not the most talented, and I too have had to fit fix many plumbing issues done wrong by builders plumbers.
@@jeffostroff I wasn't offended but was only making a point and in my case, my customer paid a plumber and that was the result. I agree that yes, not all work is done by the licensed guy but I would think that he would at least check the work of his guys.
@@MannyFontes1968 A local plumber that I have used in the past would stop by the job near the end and make sure the work was done by his guys properly.
Used these on many occasions. 10 years later, went to a home, still there and functioning fine. Sure , will hard pipe but some of these older homes have been altered so much a plumber will charge outrageous prices. Local plumber charged $80 to replace a toilet flat valve.
@@Jack-Surreal_Panes That's why I tell people that learn how to change their own flappers
Thank you for doing a video on new DOS and don't inplumbing. I don't work as a plumber but I do my own, so this is helpful.
Why it isn't banned in the stores and from the suppliers, if they continue selling it, people will definitely buy em. Should be stop from the suppliers first. Personal opinion.
Erick, I have been wondering this for years myself. It's not a crime to own them, it is only against plumbing code to use them. It's up to city inspectors to stop you from using them by failing your inspection. Maybe the companies jsut reason that people will use it for very short immediate repair, and not make it permenant. Although, a saddle valve is permanent, there is no undo without cutting the pipe where the pin hole is and repairing it with a coupling.
I C
I’m a handyman that does research first. Don’t be angry at all handymen. I supply plumbers and electricians many hours of work, when I feel it’s past my ability.
It's not banned in stores because people keep buying it and using it. Check out your local parts store that most likely sells window tint that is under the legal VLT limit.
Sure, these examples aren't supposed to be used in the manner they end up being used (improperly). But, who's to say that's the only way they are used? Maybe that person wants a drain for some hydroponic system? Maybe the window tint that is too dark is used on some home window and not a car?
Laissez faire! You wouldn't want the gov't to tell you how to spend your money would ya...?
Whos doing what in the equation? Who's getting paid and who's doing the paying? The box store (corporation) + the City (corporation)+ Plumber (corporation) + you (the consumer).
A hardware store employee in the hood where I used to live told me it was common for his customers to spend $6 for a roll of duct tape to repair a cracked $3 P-trap!
I'm not a professional plumber.. I am a maintenance man and I have enough sense to not work with metal tools on a glass table...
You the man!
He's JUST DEMONSTRATING!!! YOU ARE NOT TOO BRIGHT!! THAT'S WHY YOU ARE A HANDYMAN!!!!
J, Sallinen,, you should not be doing work you know nothing about!!!!
@@robertfurdas2760 LMFAO 😂
Then the title should be " 5 things you shouldn't use in plumbing" a glass table for your metal tools as number 1...
Just an FYI.. I have been a certified pool and spa operator since 2003 which encompasses plumbing, electrical and chemistry.
@@j.sallinen25 lighten up francis.
Jeff, I actually used the Superior Brand Ferrule/handle puller last night. It was very similar to the Husky brand, if not the same. Those two puller claws are not used to pull the the ferrule off, they are used to pull faucets handles off. I watched the Superior video and those claws were only used to pull handles off. The Superior brand did the job for six pipes with no problems. Yes the the T handle could could be longer for more leverage. I noticed you omitted putting the silver insert into the pipe before coupling the puller to the nut. That is the reason why the T handle was striking the back of the puller. So I can see why you were having problems using the tool. I wish they omitted the puller claws that were used to pull handles of with. Yes the tool is awkward and uncomfortable, but it was the only one I could find in stock. I would have bought a better one if it was available, and probably will order one online for future projects. But for 11 bucks and 6 leaking stops, this tool worked great. Maybe the Husky brand instruction are different? But the pullers look identical. BTW all the stops and pipe had the green corrosion and the sleeves were on there. The way you were demonstrating using the Husky tool is my opinion was incorrect. Sorry, I usually enjoy your videos and get a lot of useful information, but this time the demonstration on how to use the cheap Husky puller missed the boat. Here is a good video for reference ua-cam.com/video/7KDe8ACKjwc/v-deo.html
I love how silent Jeff is on this.
@@redmatrix He's actually responded to a few similar comments, but he seems too hard headed to except the fact that he screwed up and used the tool wrong in the video. It makes me suspect he's never used it correctly and maybe it also reveals a part of his character.
@@dtester Busted, You said except when you intended to say accept. Your failure to edit this post to speak in proper English reveals a part of your charachter.
@@FreeAmerican-mm2my Omg! Nooooo!
You’re absolutely right. Thank you for the detailed description of how to use the tool properly.
Nice video, quick question what’s the best way to clean the kitchen drain lines.
I have a1 1/2 inches pvc drain line that is getting clogged all the time there’s any kind off liquid or something to clean? Thank you
No liquid cleaner of any kind ever works outside the commercial. In the bathroom I use that dollar plastic tool that that goes down he drain and claws back all the hair out.
Great information. Found out I had one of these illegal devices after noticing my sink draining slowly.
Did you get it fixed? what did you replace it with?
The husky tool works fine when used correctly. First you have to use all of the parts. The most critical is the one that rolled off of your table when you picked up the tool. That was the insert that fits the tool to the end of the pipe just like your other tool does. The wings are not used for sleeve pulling, just faucet handles. It doesn't have the leverage that the wrench driven one does, but will easily pull all but the most stubborn sleeves.
Agreed. I though the same way Jeff did, but I read the manual again and found I need to put the round insert and screw. No wings are necessary here.
Isn't it funny a "qualified" and "licensed" plumber is too inept to read instructions...and then complain about the tool he used improperly.
@@brianreinhardt4050 hey mr. bob villa, no one is perfect and the instructions are not very clear. I used it wrong at first too, its a consumer grade tool not something pros would buy (and I had an emergency repair to make, HD only had that tool available, so it had to work)
thank you for this information.
I'm remodeling our bathroom and the contractor I hired allowed his plumbing sub to put form n fit P traps under both vanities. Now I have the information to talk to him.
Yes it is just so frustrating how many alleged professionals out there are doing this even to this day that they just don't know this simple basic plumbing 101 says to me that they've never even studied any type of plumbing codes or even just ready plumbing for dummies guide about what not to do
@@jeffostroff I'm a weekend warrior and have never seen those flexible pipes before, but it was instantly obvious as to why they're a terrible idea. Common sense isn't as common as you might think.
Glald to know about the saddle valve. I have one for the water line to fridge which is not hooked up. Going to get it done right way.
I agree totally - but one thing has always escaped me about the flex trap thing ... why would an insurance company care? If it's leaking - it's VERY readily apparent where the leak is, and very easy and cheap to fix. It's on a sink, how much water can it leak before somebody shuts off the faucet? I just don't see it doing any real damage. If it does it's 100% homeowner neglect and should be excluded from the policy.
My house had one I wasn't aware of until I had to get new insurance less than a year after I bought it. My agent is an idiot and failed to communicate effectively between me and underwriting - but he told me they didn't want to write the policy "because the plumbing is old" (house is 30 years old), he said thats all they said and didn't say what to fix - I had to grill him before he said "Insurance co's don't like plumbing over 50 years old", I said my house is only 30, he came back with maybe it's this flex pipe in the inspection report ... it was a HUGE fiasco.
In the end it was NOT the flex drain, but somehow those idiots thought my plumbing was over 50 years old in a 30 year old house? I DID replace the flex because I don't want it there, but the moral of the story is that insurance companies nitpick some really stupid stuff sometimes that have no bearing on what could cause any real damage. Case in point - the entire reason I had to get new insurance - is that my current insurance required me to REPLACE a 10 year old roof that's in perfect condition ... over a screen porch in a concrete block house. As for their 50 year thing - are we supposed to jackhammer up the concrete foundation to replace all the pipes every 50 years "just because"? Insurance companies and their employees are generally criminally stupid.
Perry your oinfo is good except for the hwole first paragraph. It is NEVER s VERY readily apparent where the leak isto most homeowners clueless on home maintenance. The flood stays inside the vanity rotting out th ebottom of the vanity, then after that they start noticing the rot on the floor and the bottom of the vanity, then it spreads up the drywall, then soaks to the interior of the drywall, then you have moist humidity inside the wall space, then you have mold growing inside your walls for weeks until you begin to smell it. By then it's 10,000 to $30000. I have fixed numerous friend's bathrooms over the last 5 years, and even kitchen sink vanitis where it rots out of the bottom.
Amazing how much information the Internet is generating over the past decade with UA-cam. Good stuff.
Thanks so much for this vid. I'd considered one of the flex-traps for a custom vanity where the sink hole was slightly offset. I ended up redrilling the sink hole to make it line up, and now I'm glad I did.
Now my problem is an old cast-iron toilet pipe that extends up over the floor and was beaten down over the closet flange....
Ooooh, cast iron, we've played that game a few times, I hate it. They develop hole sin the pipes like cancer, and sewer gas leaks in the houses.
@@jeffostroff *sigh* Oh great. And if I wanted to replace that I'd have to rip up the entire floor and find out where it connects? I don't know, it's super-old and doesn't seem to have holes, fortunately. However, the pipe narrows as it goes down, causing all sort of other problems (like... trying to fit in a new flange, even one of those made to be inserted into those pipes).
As a contractor myself (I think my screen name mentions that) I just LOVE "those calls" that start out with the phrase "MY HANDYMAN.....". You and I both know we're going to be fixing some crazy installed things.
LOL, that is so true!
Took a little offense at the handyman slander (I do rental maintenance so I could be considered a "handyman"), but you also made me more confident in my plumbing abilities since I've never taken these shortcuts and I've always gone out of my way to remove and replace accordion traps. Good video
I am NOT running my drain (or anything else) inside and outside wall. ALSO, from a P trap, doesn't the pipe turn down? Like it drains by gravity, you know? I wish you could explain the method that water could be sucked from an S, but not from the P.
the water can't be siphoned from a P-trap because that horizontal p-trap arm that connects to the horizontal waste line going to the wall slows down the inertia of the water, thus breaking the siphoning effect. The S-Trap can siphon itself because the output of an S-trap usually goes straight down vertical, and when you have a long vertical drop after the S-trap with a short vertical drop before the S-trap, that is a recipe for increased water inertia, and so the it can siphon itself. I plan to do a video soon to show how S-traps can siphon themselves.
Water gets sucked out by siphonage not capillary attraction. ( not action ) . When a compression fitting is used for whatever reason , the ferrule is squeezed tight that it deforms the pipe enough so it can't come off. It's not supposed to.
Thank you. My son is replacing the vanity and the kit he found at Hpme depot was the one with the accordion type. We ended up buying the parts separately. This video justifies our choice. I will wathch you other video in the event I am off center
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
Man, this kind of stuff is informative but your perspective is a bit enraging. I've hired multiple plumbers in my life who show up to point out the code violations done by the previous plumbers I've hired who then go on to violate another code. Do you guys just go around screwing things up and blaming it on DIYers? Not two weeks ago I had a bonified plumber come in and glue a PVC waste pipe to an ABS waste pipe only to find out later that gluing those together was against code. I had to fix it myself, correctly. You need to be honest that the people who have the most to gain by cutting corners are the plumbers charging full price for bad work. A DIYer wants it done well and the good ones research how to do it properly using videos like yours.
What I've seen over the years with plumbers and electricians, is the person showing up to do the work is not the owner of the company, the one with the master plumbing or electrician license, the one with 30 years experience, who has been shot down by every city inspector possible during their career, and knows what mistakes to avoid, who really cares about and understands the plumbing codes. Chances are the low man on the totem pole who shows up to do your work does not know much about codes, and has not fully developed their skills yet. 2 years ago I had plumbers come to work on a friend's house, replacing his water main shutoff outside, on a PVC pipe. It leaked the next day and we had to call him back. For a no-brainer cement PVC fitting. Apparently he forgot you have to twist the fitting 1/4 turn while cement is still drying, and hold for a minute before letting go or PVC won't stick. Yup, I know how you feel, this is why I keep making these videos.
Try to:
1. Hire a contractor that doesn’t have any employees and does it him (her) self.
2. Make note of his or her name on the invoice he or she gives you.
3. Make sure that you get a written warranty for the labor that is at least as long as the manufacturers warranty for the part that he installs.
4. For this one you will need to get to know him:
Make sure he comes back to correct any problems in a timely matter and doesn’t charge you extra if it’s his fault. Is he a Man of his word?
5. Don’t be embarrassed about watching him work.
A good contractor likes being watched. If he doesn’t like you to watch him, don’t hire him. You may even learn something if you talk to him.
That is not an issue since there is a specialty glue to connect PVC to ABS. I think it's green.... Called transition fitting cement..
@@jeffostroff Another thing is plumbing codes vary state to state, my first house was an S-trap home and the problem was the velocity of the water going from the first floor to the basement where the main line was. Used one of these, not sure this is legal but it worked,www.amazon.com/Studor-20341-Mini-Vent-Adapter-Connection/dp/B00FQEX4UI/ref=asc_df_B00FQEX4UI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312186755465&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8975938221840903121&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003648&hvtargid=pla-434083428846&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=61740029466&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312186755465&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8975938221840903121&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003648&hvtargid=pla-434083428846 If you flush your toilet and you suck the trap dry you have some restriction in your vent. I hate compression fittings, I always solder because I seen to many leaks over the years, also many refrigerators come with those pinch valves,I hate them to.
I am not a plumber. But I had a plumber tell me you have to use a different glue for the ABS and PVC connection. I remember it was a green color. But who knows, the rules may have changed.
Lots of good information on things I come across quite often in my remodeling business. It gives me plenty of repair work. Though I have my own method of removing the brass sleeves, I think you missed something when using the Husky tool. The L arms should rest in the 2 notches which will allow the T handle to rotate easily. Once you start to snug it up, you can grip the L arms around the nut.
Great point! But, the newer instructions don't have you using those arms at all, just the middle part of the tool that screws ontot he compression nut.
Why can't I just cut the ring with hack saw blade? I just did that last week and replaced 6 valves and then I used new shark shut off valves
I am not a plumber, I am a finish carpenter, but when I told the customer she needs a plumber she was like can't you do it all? I said sure no problem...I was planing to use a plumber...but boy they are supper expensive!!! I was little nervous because i might lose the job for over price it so I decide to take my chance and do it myself.
And I did it!!! it took me 2 trips one to home Depot and one to Low's because the standard P trap was not long enough and the drain was way off center but with a lot of questions and some UA-cam videos (yours and others) and a lot of prayer to God!!!! I got it done!!! and I loved it because I learned something new and it was really fun job, it is like putting toys together, the 1st one was the hardest one and the longest because I had to read all the instructions even it was very simple and easy but I was little nervous but when I was done I made extra $400 to install the 3 faucets and customer pays for all the parts.
Now I am thinking to learn plumbing because they make triple what the carpenter does for the day even though the carpentry much harder and it take triple the time to do the same job.
That's not a problem at all Dean, lots of guys cut them off, it's the norm in the UK, they cut a slit in the "olive" as they call it, and separate it with a flat head screw driver.
*6 yrs plumbing. Yeah, never liked saddle valves. It creates too much work that isn't neccesssary. Rather throw on a duo 3/8 by 1/4 inch angle stop and run the line. Great vid🤙
yeah it should be called 6 months to 2 yrs insurance claim valve for your ice maker
Or run a street coupler with a Denning valve
That’s why you need a properly vented system so that you have air movement. Then the s trap or p trap has no issue. Floor drains are a much more likely to allow gas as they set dry unless you pour water down them constantly. So many places I have been where gurgling occurs.
John your S-Trap may still self siphon, as the problem is mostly do the inertia of the water, a real long leg leaving the S-Trap, after a short leg entering the S-Trap.
i am a licensed Indiana plumbing contractor or more precisely a Master Plumber with 30+ years in the trade with a Indiana accredited 4 year apprenticeship program. #1 the ferrule compresses and bites into the copper tubing. It therefore makes an indentation and makes the ID of the tubing smaller. I agree that changing out those old fixture stops are a good idea And installing the 1/4 turn ball valve type fixture stops, removing the old brass compressed ferrule and applying a new one in the same spot is risky . I have never heard of anyone doing what you are doing! The copper tubing has been Compressed, the tubing itself is less than 1/2"id at that point. if you want to add a new valve solder on a copper coupling and tubing or a sweat 1/4 turn stop. Also the tool you are using is a knob puller for 2 handle lav., kitchen, or a old style tub/shower faucet. It was not made to yank off ferrules..
fyi -self piercing saddle tap valves drive me nuts! All too often a new home owner gets the water turned on to their new house then leave with the water on. Upon their return the wood floors are buckled, mold has set in from in the drywall soaking up the wall. Once installed you can not close them and that's why their illegal. The piercing tube is hollow, water flows before you raise the needle.
They were used on the furnace's humidifier (AprilAir) originally and buttheads started using them for icemakers.
Marvin. I rarely see the ferrule leave an indent on the pipes, so I slide off the old one and the new one goes right there. If you are that worried about it, cut the copper pipe where the indent is, ream it out, and place the new ferrule. Second, you are wrong about the Husky tool, as is everyone else who comes to to correct me on it. If you look on the back of the package, they have 2 sets of instructions, one for a knob puller, and one for using it to pull off ferrules.
@@jeffostroff the next time you remove a old ferrule, run your fingers across it. If the compresstion fitting was tight, the ferrule has bite into the tubing. I have that type of puller and it is one of three types of pullers i have for pulling knobs. I bought it so long ago i do not know it's brand name. The problem i have had with it is the part i place under the knob unbending. This is due to mineral deposits from a leaking packing nut or bonnet nut allowing water to run over the splins on the valve stem that come in contact with the knob. It's not my favorite knob puller
Jeff - good tips on the illegal fittings, Thanks for all that! However, I'm pretty sure you're using the husky ferrule puller tool incorrectly. The two side straps that you're holding together by hand actually don't need to be held - if you look at the crossbar at the hand-side of the tool, you'll see there's two little notches, one on either end of the cross bar. The back end of the side straps fit into those notches. Once in place and tightened up slightly, you don't need to hold the pulling straps in place - just turn the screw. Also, setting the pulling straps into those notches provides a better angle at the work end and clears the bar so it doesn't bang into the straps while turning. Agree that the other two pulling tools are more elegant and compact, but the Husky tool can be made to work.
Newer versions of this tool the instructions tell you not to use those side arms when you are pulling ferrules, only when pulling shower knobs.
The straps are only used for knobs.
Tool #4 you are using incorrectly!!! Those two arms are for pulling handles, not for removing the copper seal. There are videos online on how to use it correctly.
Paul MvN And $40 for the alternative! I have a 15mm and 22mm olive puller for about £12 ($15 at current daft exchange rate) and works every time.
And if it takes time and cost a lot, then it's good 😁😁😁
I only got annoyed by this video...
And if his tools are so good, why didn't he show us on a compressed fitting 😁
@@jfjjjjfj he did but the fitting was not an old fitting. Watch that part again as he explains it.
I mean an old one, not a new with loose ring 😀
Found your video interesting to watch. I can't wait to see your next video. Good Luck with the upcoming update. This video is really very interesting and effective
Thanks Jane!
Why does he keep referring to "Handyman" as offenders of these violations? I've been doing handyman work for 12 years now and have never in my life used any of these products in this video nor even thought about using them. I've seen plenty of professional plumbers or contractors in general that have made code violations. So please stop pointing fingers at the hardworking and honest handymen.
Of course you never used these products. But that does not mean that handyman guys are not using them! They use them all the time. Even worse I can't tell you how many times in Home de[pot I see the plumbing aisle guys talking to a handy man and hand them a flexible p-trap
@@jeffostroff , hold on now, you are absolutely right, in that the “sales”, personnel, will offer. (Or hand), them to a handyman, yet that IS their job, … (to sell the items that the store stocks, which by the way, is NOT illegal), … perhaps, you should be pushing for your local/state/federal, political circles, … to change the manufacturing laws, prohibiting manufacturers from making them, …
I’m surprised that the form fit manufacturer has not sued your butt for defamation of picturing/showing said company’s drain product, … at the big box store, but hey! Guess you been lucky, so far, … you are correct about the saddle valves, but then, I’ve never seen a ball cock valve fail, but have seen, the old style gate valves fail, … usually, due to the packing, but depending on the balance of the acidity of the water quality, … should the water quality be too alkaline, it will also eat away at the “gate” section, …
@@johnosman8971 Sue for defamation? How so? It's against code, and he showed the code. "You defamed our company by showing one of our parts is against plumbing code!" Yeah, good luck with that.
I use the traditional S trap in all of my installations and renovation work, they are the most reliable and sufficient it’s all about the flow a prevention of possibility with water ingression if you connect a 42mm Easyflo conventional waste pipe to a S-TRAP the speed of the waters return elevates by 60% the greater the number of degree being a 90/45.6 on the curvature with the bends flow will equally level out water pressure capacity inside the dual capillary action. I’m a gynaecologist by and I forgot what we where talking about 🤔
Hey. Here you are. AGAIN! LOL i just updated my plumbing knowledge TY for doing these vids. Tee
Glad to help Terry!
Remember when I first saw one of those 'Form-n-Fit' P-Trap's in a store...thought "that looks like a clog waiting to happen..."
I think somewhere Jimmy Hoffa is caught inside someone's Form-N-Fit trap
I've run probably 1500+ sink drains by now...they're not uncommon. Against code or not I'm js I haven't had a single one that I believed the accordion trap was the sole clog of the problem
Had a saddle fitting in basement that fed my fridge for water. Leaked a few times and replaced it myself with shark bite fitting. Problem solved. And the saddle was done by the builder and his “plumbers”.
Michael, you just highlighted a point I have been showing people for years with our videos. The builders, especially here in Florida use the worst contractors ever, doing the shoddiest work ever, and I always have to come in and clean up after their disasters years later.
Great video- really helps us DIY crowd. Funny why the items you show are still available if illegal? I saw all of them in my big box stores when installing my sink and vanity a few weeks ago. Did it the right way but had no clue the others were illegal to use. Interesting stuff. Thanks for the information!
@@jeffostroff built by the lowest bidders
I respect anyone who performs a job seriously, conscientiously, and professionally. The video comes across as a hit piece on the "handyman" which in my opinion is a legitimate trade. There are shoddy performers in every trade, career or profession so we should keep that in mind when offering criticism or suggestions. I have employed a handyman or two in the past who have found and corrected shortcuts or mistakes made by licensed personnel. A licensed plumber shouldn't be "painting with a wide brush"!
Yes there are many good handymen, but very few here in FL.
Thanks Jeff, all great info but in the case of the saddle valve you showed that its a code violation but you did not show what the correct procedure was which would have been very helpful as I have a couple of these in my house and I can solder. Thanks for your time anyway Jeff.
My preferred method for avoiding the saddle valve is to get a double angle stop under the kitchen sink, like this one below, then you don't have to solder, just tighten this onto the pipe.
www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-1-2-in-Nominal-Inlet-x-3-8-in-O-D-Comp-x-1-4-in-O-D-Dual-Outlet-Dual-Shut-Off-1-4-in-Turn-Angle-Ball-Valve-KTCR1900DVX-R1/203309317
It's called $$$$$. Also, items such as the saddle valve can be used, as intended, in areas other than house plumbing. Are other type connections better for the long term, yes, of course, but the saddle valve does provide a quick, low flow, connection tap.
@@jeffostroff That's exactly what I was gonna suggest,either that or replace the sink valve with a 3/8"+1/4"outlet,depending on what you are hooking up.
I used a compression tee, with a rubber seal on the female side, just like the flexible lines themselves use:
Plumb Works® 3/8"Female Compression x 3/8"Compression x 3/8"Compression Supply Tee at Menards
www.menards.com/main/p-1444437569319.htm
Or for ice makers (1/4" line)
Plumb Works® 3/8"Female Compression x 3/8"Compression x 1/4"Compression Supply Tee at Menards
www.menards.com/main/p-1444437569216.htm
Verry true those bendy pipes have what i think are called in gold mining are riffles. they cause the water to do little centrifugal spins as it flow,s and the bottom of the rifle is very slow moving or stagnant so anything heavier than water falls and stays in the bottom of the valleys. So if you are a gold miner you might want these ....
Thanks for bring to light of the duck puller. The problem with DIY people like myself is 1) Usually something breaks and we need to head off to the big box store since plumbing stores may have already closed, 2) The big box stores tend to stock very little variety of a part and may tend to be cheap ones, 3) Just not knowing the name of other parts. I to bought the Huskey puller during a repair in the evening. Also though, if I one isn't pulling off the compression rings frequently and only does it once a year, then the Huskey tool might be worth while even for the grief encountered during its use. It was very difficult to use as mentioned. Going to pick up the Duck Puller.
Awesome you'll have the best of both worlds
In the UK here. I've never seen those concertina traps used over here, though I'm sure you can get them. We commonly use them on our toilet wastes without issue. When used horizontally the valleys just fill with sediment, and eventually just form a smooth surface. Though the ridges are much finer.
Though not the "professional" way, I've seen many saddle valves used and serviceable for years without issue.
That Husky tool looks truly terrible as an olive (ferule) puller. I use a Rothenberger olive splitter that literally takes like 10 seconds to cut those things off. Or a Monument olive puller similar to the last tool you used.
Your plumbing codes do seem to be rather overzealous over there. I can't imagine being told to change a trap, or my insurance policy would be invalid, how ridiculous!
US plumbers also seem to be like UK electricians and gas fitters - rather arrogant when referring to handymen and DIYers.
Yes, some people get lucky, while others get $30,000 repair that the insurance company denies payment on for using items banned by plumbing codes
Thank you jon ofham, I appreciate hearing your perspective and how things are done elsewhere. I liked your word choices of arrogant and over zealous.
You don't need a tool to remove a ferrule (olive in UK) Jeff - fine hacksaw across the width until nearly through, flat blade screwdriver in the cut, twist and it's off.
You guys are very talented over there. when you see some of the sloppy work I find in some properties, you'll not want to see certain people with a hack saw trying this delicate surgery. I'm more concerned that they'll cut through the pipe. At least the tools I showed you are effortless and quick with no hack sawing back and forth.
A Driver When I saw the video, I was going to recommend the same thing as you. That's how I do it as well. Got my small bladed bow hacksaw, never fails.
@@hardrock1826 Isn't it easier to just pull it off with the duck puller tool than it is to sit there and hack back-and-forth with the saw?
@@jeffostroff Perhaps, I have never tried that. But it only takes seconds really the way I have always done it. That ferrule is soft material, that allows a better seal and it's very thin. It doesn't take much to score the surface and pop it off. Like anything, once you do it for a while and develop your technique, it becomes automatic.
@@hardrock1826 Maybe I'll do a video this week on that try both methods have you ever accidentally cut into the pipe with the saw?
I'm from UK this is very relevant knowledge me also.
Thank you.
The reason they can sell the corrugated p trap and saddle valves is because they don't explicitly state what it should be used for. They sell screwdrivers, but nothing on a screwdriver states it cannot be used as a pipe.
Super helpful and informative! I’m just a homeowner, and don’t consider myself a diy-er. It is really great to understand what should not be used. Thanks!
Glad to help out and thank you for watching you Jen
I'm a home owner, and just use 15mm pipe cutter and deburring tool, then use a washing machine 15mm t-piece with a ¾"BSP valve that has compression fittings and either copper or brass olives (feral), quick, easy and reliable, did it for my water purification system and dishwasher, still going well, with no issues 5 or 6 years on.
I have saddle valves running 20 years now without failure
Keep your fingers crossed, it's always when you make the claim, that the claim comes to bite you in the butt!
The "codes" referred to are industry standards compiled by experienced professionals in each industry. When they say a device should not be used, it is because that device has an increased risk of causing a problem which outweighs the benefit of the risk. It is not based on the fact YOU have a valve that hasn't leaked for 20 years. YOU are not a "statistically significant sample".
Sort of like saying "Smoking is not an increased risk of lung cancer because I have smoked for 40 years and I don't have lung cancer" or "Seat belts don't save lives because I never wear a seat belt and I have never been killed in a car accident"
I do not assume you can grasp the concept of risk/benefit and "increased risk" so, to be clear...
It does NOT mean "all these valves will leak". It does NOT mean "Most of these valves will leak" it MEANS "these valves will leak more often than the recommended alternative and the cost benefit, which is very small, does not make up for the increased risk."
So, now, I think you may understand why your comment is irrelevant.
I am a fixer of all, I fixed a new chinese 3/4 pipe New with a hole in it , with a piece of hose and a hose clamp , going on 30 years ago . No plex in my house , only galvanised and copper flares . 3/8 copper Fast hot water no waste , Valves have a 1/4 inch restriction in them , No lost pressure each pipe from source to fauset . 3/8 copper can freeze and not break .
Listen to Jeff about those saddle valves . There great until they fail and have to replace your drywall! Check the water line at least once a week.
gary K I don’t think you had to write a book.
2:44 yeah, not quite capillary. Venturi effect, based on Bernoulli's Principle - fast moving fluid (such as air) drops pressure, creating suction. Air driven spray guns work like that.
That is correct
Thank you! Excellent information. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Glad it was helpful!
In the UK we still use “S” traps and our regulations are very comprehensive. Our drainage systems must just be better coz they rarely cause a problem if the drainage is installed correctly
laernulieNlaernulieNlaernulieN Yup, ventilated drainage prevents syphoning of the trap. Proper downstream regulations prevent the problem so we dont have the problem. P trap doesn’t prevent that problem either: pipe goes “through the wall”, and guess what happens then?!
Andy Owens a P trap with a 90 degree elbow on the outlet is no different to an S trap really. Does their “plumbing code” ban them from doing that? Does the pipe have to go through the wall?
As long as the first part of the trap is deep enough, that air can be blown through the trap, and leave enough water to seal, you're golden. If you ever have a problem of the trap clearing like a toilet, just make the first drop deeper. If you look at it closely, it will do exactly what a toilet does when you flush. It's just that a toilet slowly fills the trap back up, which is the level of water in the bowl. If that ever happens in your sink, you can do the same thing, by just trickling in some water. I've never had it happen.
Like Andy says below, adequate ventilation will prevent syphons. In the US here, I believe when you "start" a horizontal run, you are required to have a vent nearby, within 6ft I think. Because a p-trap connects to a horizontal pipe, you can be sure that there will be a vent between that trap and another fixture (or else that fixture will be close and will use that same vent).
@@andyowens5494 What happens then, in theory, is that there remains enough horizontal pipe run between the P trap and the wall to prevent the siphon effect by leaving enough water in the bottom of the horizontal tubing to let the rushing air pass and go down the drain while the water that made it into the horizontal pipe section can flow back into the trap or at least slow down enough as it goes down the drain to prevent the rest of the water remaining that an S trap would pull out of the bottom loop from getting out of the trap. But the key is the venting downstream of the trap!!!
Same thing happens with dam water level regulation with solid plumbing... If you want the pond to remain at a desired level but have a solid pipe letting excess water leave the pond without draining too much water from the pond but also not getting clogged by floating pond debris and also removing excess sediment from the pond bottom, it's common to run the solid plumbing from the bottom of the pond up and through the pond wall to the drainage area and even with 18 inch diameter solid plumbing, a simple 1/2 inch diameter hole in the top of the solid plumbing on the downstream side of the pond wall will allow enough air into the plumbing to keep the pond at the desired water height instead of allowing the solid drain line from being able to siphon the pond completely empty even though that solid pipe went through the pond wall and exits into a stream or river 30 or more feet lower than the bottom of the pond. Without that 1/2 inch diameter hole in the pond drain line, the pond would siphon completely empty fairly rapidly but with that 1/2 inch hole the pond water remains not much lower than the bottom of the horizontal section of pipe where the pipe runs from the pond side of the pond wall to the drainage area.
Appreciate the video! yay s traps in all my fixtures and a saddle valve for my previous fridge (inherited with the house). Love the 600 I paid for an inspection. I am a DIYer but like previous commenters I'm on here to know how to do it right. Thanks for the info!
Steve you are welcome and thanks for coming by to view our video
The husky tool worked great, just remove those two hook like end pieces as they get in the way, but are not needed in this case. The part that screws in is the part that grabs the nut! However, the handle is not wide enough to give you the leverage you need, so I just had to add some leverage by putting some around it of small pipe on the ends, anything to extend and give you more leverage.
Handyman here. Something you didn't mention was the plumbing or building code is the MINIMUM requirement. If you're not doing the best job you can, you're over charging for your labor. I make it a habit to replace everything from the wall out when doing under sink work. It virtually eliminates callbacks.
Good strategy, I do the same, I want everything to be and look brand new.