I have two rifles in 45-70 and when the case mouths get small cracks after many firings I shorten them to 45-60 length eliminating the cracks so they can start a whole new life as 45-60.
@duelist1954 Since Uberti (I can't speak for Chaparral) is using a chamber that allows a 0.068" rim I knew this wouldn't be an issue. The difference between 0.064" and 0.062" is so slight that firing pins have no trouble setting off primers in the thinner rimmed brass. So the clones should not be an issue, though originals, especially if the chamber is at the shallow end of the 1876 specs, may not fully close on brass made from .45-70s.
You can make a lee factory crimp 45-70 die into a 45-60. I did it, I pressed the collet out and had a machinist friend trim it down to 45-60 spec on his lathe and it works like a charm. When I roll crimped the bullets jumped the crimp, but not with the factory crimp. My rifle is a Cimmaron Tom Horn.
Maybe I should have mentioned the rim thickness in the video. I had a whole scene shot covering specs on the entire 1876 cartridge family, but it seemed like overkill. All the Winchester 1876 cartridges (.40-60, .45-60, .45-75 and .50-95 Express) have Rim thickness specs of 0.062" to 0.065" .45-70 specs call for rim thicknesses of 0.060" to 0.70", but in actual practice they seldom vary from 0.064" to 0.068" (more in next post)
The rim of the 45-70 can be turned a bit on a lythe if you have access to one. However it can be done on the front side of the rim. ( not stamped side) by hand using a file and the same case trimmer just to turn the case as you file the rim. It is easy as you are working with brass. Some rifles will feed the thicker rims of the 45-70. Ether way it is 1/3 to cost of factory made 45-60 casings and well worth the time to cut and file the 45-70 brass.
Greetings from NOLA! I was VERY INTERESTED in the section on modifying 45-70 dies..well, 40-60 dies are hard to get/long wait.. can 40-65 dies be modified in the same method to size/bell/seat/crimp the 40-60???
I just bought one of these rifles- vendor I was going to buy the cast bullets from suggested I slug the bore since uberti replicas can be- uh well less than precise. Did you do that?
Mike, in your opinion as a historian do you think that Tom Horn shot the Nickell kid that he was hung for? I've long though that he didn't but after reading Tom Horn in Life and Legend by Larry Ball, I'm not so sure anymore.
Hey mile great video, so I bought a 45-60 die set but it’s a three die set. I’m familiar with my .45 colt 4 die set. So do I need to buy a crimping die as well?
Hi, it's very interesting, what is your tool ??? il am sorry, i speaker very bad english and it's would like tout make 45 60 wcf. il am passionnante by winchester 1876, it's the rifle of the "Marquis of Morès '' in North Dakota.
duckenwhite I use a Lyman case trimmer. Depending on the rifle you are using, you may have to turn the rims to make them thinner. A milling machine is best for this, but I have done it with a 1/2 inch drill and a file, but it is not easy.
Thanks for posting this useful information. I would like to share an alternate method of trimming down 45/70 brass that is much faster if you have a drill press. I purchased an L.E. Wilson 45/70 die, and with a hack saw, cut off about .1inch from the front-not the case head end. Then I squared the case holder with a file. The reason for shortening the holder is that the die I purchased held the brass case so that very little of it was exposed. With the vise on the drill press table but not secured in place, I put a piece of thin and narrow bar stock in the vise for the case head to rest upon and then tightened the jaws on the case holder with a case inserted using the vertical groove in the jaw to keep it upright and centered. Next I checked with a 1,2,3 block for square, centered the case under the drill chuck and hand tightened the chuck jaws only slightly on the protruding case. That move centered the chuck over the case. That done, I locked the vise in place on the table. Next, I tightened a 5/8” end mill in the chuck and adjusted the table height under it so that the depth stop would give the required 1.89” case length. When I started the drill press and lowered the end mill onto the case, it cut smoothly by advancing the cutter gently over the case. Lastly, I removed the case holder from the vise, tapped it out and checked with calipers. Placing a new case in the case holder and replacing in the vise is a very quick operation. All positions are set and the groove in the vise jaw returns the case to the preset position. From then on, I went through 100 star line 45/70 cases in short order. All that remained was to chamfer the case mouth and load. I had found a set of three Lee 45/60 dies on the Walmart site for less than $40. The end mill is Chinese and cost about $12. I hope this is helpful. Keep making those Utube videos
That sounds like a lot to go through for 100 rounds that should last almost forever. I just trim the cases by holding them against a disc sander to get them close to the desired length, then trim them as per in the video.
I have two rifles in 45-70 and when the case mouths get small cracks after many firings I shorten them to 45-60 length eliminating the cracks so they can start a whole new life as 45-60.
This would be a good use for used .45-70 Hornady LeveRevolution cases. Seems like their length is about 1.88 already.
@duelist1954
Since Uberti (I can't speak for Chaparral) is using a chamber that allows a 0.068" rim I knew this wouldn't be an issue. The difference between 0.064" and 0.062" is so slight that firing pins have no trouble setting off primers in the thinner rimmed brass.
So the clones should not be an issue, though originals, especially if the chamber is at the shallow end of the 1876 specs, may not fully close on brass made from .45-70s.
Mike.
That was fast work and as always well done and very easy to understand.
Thank you Sir.
Ron R
You can make a lee factory crimp 45-70 die into a 45-60. I did it, I pressed the collet out and had a machinist friend trim it down to 45-60 spec on his lathe and it works like a charm. When I roll crimped the bullets jumped the crimp, but not with the factory crimp. My rifle is a Cimmaron Tom Horn.
Fascinating. I appreciate the history of the .45-60 in particular. I didn't know any of that.
Maybe I should have mentioned the rim thickness in the video. I had a whole scene shot covering specs on the entire 1876 cartridge family, but it seemed like overkill.
All the Winchester 1876 cartridges (.40-60, .45-60, .45-75 and .50-95 Express) have Rim thickness specs of 0.062" to 0.065"
.45-70 specs call for rim thicknesses of 0.060" to 0.70", but in actual practice they seldom vary from 0.064" to 0.068" (more in next post)
i like it! something is always fascinating to me about wildcatting cartridges!
The rim of the 45-70 can be turned a bit on a lythe if you have access to one. However it can be done on the front side of the rim. ( not stamped side) by hand using a file and the same case trimmer just to turn the case as you file the rim. It is easy as you are working with brass. Some rifles will feed the thicker rims of the 45-70. Ether way it is 1/3 to cost of factory made 45-60 casings and well worth the time to cut and file the 45-70 brass.
@lisar3006 Thanks Ron. I hope it helps you with the 1876.
Greetings from NOLA! I was VERY INTERESTED in the section on modifying 45-70 dies..well, 40-60 dies are hard to get/long wait.. can 40-65 dies be modified in the same method to size/bell/seat/crimp the 40-60???
Cut mine with a simple tubing cutter
And I load with 60gr of FFFG for a 265gr slug.
love to get a 1876 in 45-60 but have only seen loads for 300 grain bullets. any ideas where to find loads for 340 to 405 grain bullets?
@duelist1954 My chaparral gun uses the short 45-70 brass without thinning the rim.
I found this article on reloading 45-60 with smokeless powder. loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD-%20HL%2045-60%20pearce.pdf
Mike B. any chance you will be doing a vid on the 1876 win.
I began making mine back in 1979 fir a Whitney-Kennedy.
I don't have any smokeless dat. black powder is easy. 50 to 55 grains of 2Fg should do it.
Is it necessary to top off with some grain(wheat or grits) Mike to remove any air gaps in your reduced black powder load?
I just bought one of these rifles- vendor I was going to buy the cast bullets from suggested I slug the bore since uberti replicas can be- uh well less than precise. Did you do that?
No, but I didn’t plan on shooting Buffalo with it at 500 yards either, so it really wasn’t likely to matter for me.
Mike, in your opinion as a historian do you think that Tom Horn shot the Nickell kid that he was hung for? I've long though that he didn't but after reading Tom Horn in Life and Legend by Larry Ball, I'm not so sure anymore.
Will Rowell I would be very surprised if Horn was innocent
Mike Can I use 340. gr bullet in a 45-60 black powder load
Hey mile great video, so I bought a 45-60 die set but it’s a three die set. I’m familiar with my .45 colt 4 die set. So do I need to buy a crimping die as well?
I like to use a separate crimping die, but your seating die will crimp at the same time, if you adjust it for that.
@@duelist1954 is it possible to use a 45-70 crimp die? Just screw it down more?
You can modify one
Hi,
it's very interesting, what is your tool ???
il am sorry, i speaker very bad english and it's would like tout make 45 60 wcf.
il am passionnante by winchester 1876, it's the rifle of the "Marquis of Morès '' in North Dakota.
duckenwhite I use a Lyman case trimmer. Depending on the rifle you are using, you may have to turn the rims to make them thinner. A milling machine is best for this, but I have done it with a 1/2 inch drill and a file, but it is not easy.
+duelist1954
thank you
Will 45-60 fit in a Colt Walker cartridge conversion?
Kevin Markham I’d love to know that too
Thanks for posting this useful information. I would like to share an alternate method of
trimming down 45/70 brass that is much faster if you have a drill press. I purchased an L.E. Wilson 45/70 die, and
with a hack saw, cut off about .1inch from the front-not the case head end. Then
I squared the case holder with a file. The reason for shortening the holder is that
the die I purchased held the brass case so that very little of it was exposed. With
the vise on the drill press table but not secured in place, I put a piece of
thin and narrow bar stock in the vise for the case head to rest upon and then
tightened the jaws on the case holder with a case inserted using the vertical groove in the jaw to keep it
upright and centered. Next I checked
with a 1,2,3 block for square, centered the case under the drill chuck and hand
tightened the chuck jaws only slightly on the protruding case. That move centered the chuck over the case. That
done, I locked the vise in place on the table.
Next, I tightened a 5/8” end mill in the chuck and adjusted the table height
under it so that the depth stop would give the required 1.89” case length. When I started the drill press and lowered
the end mill onto the case, it cut smoothly by advancing the cutter gently over
the case. Lastly, I removed the case holder from the vise, tapped it out and
checked with calipers. Placing a new
case in the case holder and replacing in the vise is a very quick
operation. All positions are set and the groove in the
vise jaw returns the case to the preset position. From then on, I went through 100 star line
45/70 cases in short order. All that
remained was to chamfer the case mouth and load. I had found a set of three Lee 45/60 dies on
the Walmart site for less than $40. The
end mill is Chinese and cost about $12.
I hope this is helpful.
Keep making those Utube videos
That sounds like a lot to go through for 100 rounds that should last almost forever. I just trim the cases by holding them against a disc sander to get them close to the desired length, then trim them as per in the video.
Can you fire 45-60 through a 45-70 rifle?
yes
And you can fire a 45-70 in a 45-90 rifle.
Yes
doesn't the case rim need to be trimed also?
+Stephen Martin still waiting for an answer
+Stephen Martin technically it should, but I've used shortened .45-70 cases with unaltered rims in two modern made replicas with no problem
I was told the extractor would break I have Uberta ( have ever you spell it)
That was my question too.
Like mine, it's orginal. 5 digit #
I need anybody out there that will get me bullets for my 4560 150 year old rifle