Hello from Phoenix Arizona. Thank you so much for sharing this video. I’m sure you helped save some lives. I’ve dealt with Density Altitude high elevations and hot temperatures flying in places like Sedona, Arizona and Flagstaff Arizona can present similar challenges. You’ve got to be very very careful thanks again.
Appreciate the detailed presentation. I've experienced similar "shear" effects going into Joseph, OR (KJSY) associated with 7k-9k ridges and peaks south of the field.
Thank you. It was a great learning experience and, as pilots, I think it’s important to share these experiences to increase awareness and contribute to overall safety. Thankfully, I had been doing a lot of stall and incipient spin recovery training. It’s a natural reaction, when you see those trees coming at you, to pull back on the control wheel thinking it will get you over the trees, only to find yourself in an unrecoverable stall. I think in large part due to the low altitude stall recovery training I was able to stay focused and lower the nose to level flight just long enough to regain airspeed and resume the climb. Even so, it still could have ended badly with the downdrafts. I have a newfound respect for flying in tight valleys, especially with high winds coming off surrounding mountains. Windy.com is an amazing tool. I flew into Goldendale Washington yesterday where there is no wind reporting. Using Windy.com, I was able to accurately determine the winds before arrival. It was spot on.
You lived so there's that. It looks like you took off in to rising terrain. Airnav has a 2/1 slope clearance(that's steep). The other direction is 6 to 1. Sounds like you got it figured out though. Afternoons in and near mountains, expect a rough ride. Leave early, be picky about the weather. GA is dangerous, imo, give yourself every advantage that you can, possibly including avoiding shorter runways with trees all around it.
SOG, fantastic stuff as always. Question, and please excuse any ignorance here. Regardless of TO procedure, and knowing that there weren't any other aircraft 'insight", (and this also may just be a 20/20 hindsight thing), why not veer off towards your 10 o'clock where it looked like the tree line was lower? I'm assuming it's as simple as not knowing what exactly was happening at the time (outside of knowing there was wind shear) and could cause a bigger issue if you are going directly into the wind? Just curious and love to learn!
I see what you’re saying. There looks to be an open field and then a road at the left side on departure. We get so used to flying runway heading on climb out, but not always the best choice in mountain flying. I usually study the terrain at an unfamiliar airport before takeoff and this one appeared to allow for a normal climb out. I didn’t take into account the winds however. The loss of lift and degree of turbulence caught me by surprise and my focus became maintaining airspeed and control of the airplane. You could say tunnel vision prevented me from considering other options at that point. I will definitely be far more cautious and study terrain more carefully on future flights. I will also set a go / no-go limit where winds are concerned. I learned that a wind sock only tells part of the story. Going forward, I will become a student of the treetops. This is an especially important indicator when treetops are rapidly moving in different directions along the path of the runway. A good indicator of turbulence and possible windshear. On this flight I should have waited for winds to subside toward early evening. It would make for a late return, but at least I would return.
@@sogpilot3137 May also want to consider the reduced vertical lift component when banking (turning) the aircraft...esp in a marginal lift (approaching stall) situation. I think straight ahead was the right decision.
Please dont take this the wrong way - I'm only being inquisitive. Why did you opt to go straight for the climb instead of building speed in ground effect as most short field takeoffs demand?
@@sogpilot3137 if you're not looking at any other factors that could be the case. However after reviewing the weather, density alt and with the hindsight you have now I imagine having that extra speed would have been desirable.
There was no way to know the effect of wind shear until above the treetops. If I had known, I would have waited until later in the day when the mountain winds calmed down. Alternatively, building speed before breaking above the trees to overcome the wind rotators. Folks who fly into this airport are probably familiar with these conditions. This was my first time into this airport
I think stall might not be the correct term here; the stall warning is set to activate at a speed higher than stall speed and does not indicate a stall; a wing drop would indicate a stall; you did have a some loss of lift on the lh wing but not a stall since you were able to correct with aileron; had you been in a stalled condition then the aileron would have aggravated the stall rather than lifted the wing; so you were close to stall speed but you were never stalled; luckily. The stall indicator also does not sense speed but rather local angle of attack; it activates before you reach the critical angle of attack; in the gusty conditions you were flying in you could easily encounter local turbulence that increases your angle of attach at the stall sensor location while having a lower angle of attack elsewhere. Now this should not be understood as if you were not in danger; you certainly were and you saved the situation by resisting the temptation to pull up; and that can be terribly difficult when trees are looming mere feet below you. Well piloted!
Not sure this is a wind shear problem as much as it was a high density altitude problem. Sure, the trees definitely did you no favors and disrupted the homogeneity of the boundary layer wind flow… But your climb performance seemed very shallow/conservative, airspeed fluctuations notwithstanding. Nice job not crashing though. Always pleasant to hit the altitude at which the air flow becomes more or less homogenous.
No issues with density altitude at KTIW which had a higher DA with normal climb performance. At Packwood, I experienced violent rotators above the treetops with high winds rapidly changing directions. Very unstable air at this airport in warm weather because it sits along a river in a valley surrounded by high mountains with Mt Rainier being the highest at over 14,000 feet. Not a good call going in there during warmer than usual weather in the middle of the day.
Why are you flying so low above the trees? And why did you only apply full throttle after flying over the trees a little bit? Was this a birdwatching trip? lol
The entire episode was under full throttle with mixture fill rich. The lack of climb performance was a direct result of wind shear causing the low altitude pass over the treetops.
Hello from Phoenix Arizona. Thank you so much for sharing this video. I’m sure you helped save some lives. I’ve dealt with Density Altitude high elevations and hot temperatures flying in places like Sedona, Arizona and Flagstaff Arizona can present similar challenges. You’ve got to be very very careful thanks again.
Appreciate the detailed presentation. I've experienced similar "shear" effects going into Joseph, OR (KJSY) associated with 7k-9k ridges and peaks south of the field.
Thanks for putting this together and sharing...very valuable information!
Thank you. It was a great learning experience and, as pilots, I think it’s important to share these experiences to increase awareness and contribute to overall safety. Thankfully, I had been doing a lot of stall and incipient spin recovery training.
It’s a natural reaction, when you see those trees coming at you, to pull back on the control wheel thinking it will get you over the trees, only to find yourself in an unrecoverable stall.
I think in large part due to the low altitude stall recovery training I was able to stay focused and lower the nose to level flight just long enough to regain airspeed and resume the climb.
Even so, it still could have ended badly with the downdrafts. I have a newfound respect for flying in tight valleys, especially with high winds coming off surrounding mountains.
Windy.com is an amazing tool. I flew into Goldendale Washington yesterday where there is no wind reporting. Using Windy.com, I was able to accurately determine the winds before arrival. It was spot on.
You lived so there's that. It looks like you took off in to rising terrain. Airnav has a 2/1 slope clearance(that's steep). The other direction is 6 to 1. Sounds like you got it figured out though. Afternoons in and near mountains, expect a rough ride. Leave early, be picky about the weather. GA is dangerous, imo, give yourself every advantage that you can, possibly including avoiding shorter runways with trees all around it.
At a deserted field as soon as feasible turn into the wind to climb thereby decreasing the chance of the wind quitting on you.
SOG, fantastic stuff as always. Question, and please excuse any ignorance here. Regardless of TO procedure, and knowing that there weren't any other aircraft 'insight", (and this also may just be a 20/20 hindsight thing), why not veer off towards your 10 o'clock where it looked like the tree line was lower? I'm assuming it's as simple as not knowing what exactly was happening at the time (outside of knowing there was wind shear) and could cause a bigger issue if you are going directly into the wind? Just curious and love to learn!
I see what you’re saying. There looks to be an open field and then a road at the left side on departure. We get so used to flying runway heading on climb out, but not always the best choice in mountain flying. I usually study the terrain at an unfamiliar airport before takeoff and this one appeared to allow for a normal climb out. I didn’t take into account the winds however. The loss of lift and degree of turbulence caught me by surprise and my focus became maintaining airspeed and control of the airplane. You could say tunnel vision prevented me from considering other options at that point. I will definitely be far more cautious and study terrain more carefully on future flights. I will also set a go / no-go limit where winds are concerned. I learned that a wind sock only tells part of the story. Going forward, I will become a student of the treetops. This is an especially important indicator when treetops are rapidly moving in different directions along the path of the runway. A good indicator of turbulence and possible windshear. On this flight I should have waited for winds to subside toward early evening. It would make for a late return, but at least I would return.
@@sogpilot3137 May also want to consider the reduced vertical lift component when banking (turning) the aircraft...esp in a marginal lift (approaching stall) situation. I think straight ahead was the right decision.
Please dont take this the wrong way - I'm only being inquisitive. Why did you opt to go straight for the climb instead of building speed in ground effect as most short field takeoffs demand?
Packwood isn’t a short field. It’s 2,356’ asphalt.
@@sogpilot3137 if you're not looking at any other factors that could be the case. However after reviewing the weather, density alt and with the hindsight you have now I imagine having that extra speed would have been desirable.
There was no way to know the effect of wind shear until above the treetops. If I had known, I would have waited until later in the day when the mountain winds calmed down. Alternatively, building speed before breaking above the trees to overcome the wind rotators. Folks who fly into this airport are probably familiar with these conditions. This was my first time into this airport
@@sogpilot3137 I'll be flying here for the first time this weekend so I appreciate you sharing your experience.
I think on a cool day it shouldn’t be an issue. I made the mistake of flying in there mid-day on a hot summer day.
I think stall might not be the correct term here; the stall warning is set to activate at a speed higher than stall speed and does not indicate a stall; a wing drop would indicate a stall; you did have a some loss of lift on the lh wing but not a stall since you were able to correct with aileron; had you been in a stalled condition then the aileron would have aggravated the stall rather than lifted the wing; so you were close to stall speed but you were never stalled; luckily. The stall indicator also does not sense speed but rather local angle of attack; it activates before you reach the critical angle of attack; in the gusty conditions you were flying in you could easily encounter local turbulence that increases your angle of attach at the stall sensor location while having a lower angle of attack elsewhere. Now this should not be understood as if you were not in danger; you certainly were and you saved the situation by resisting the temptation to pull up; and that can be terribly difficult when trees are looming mere feet below you. Well piloted!
Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.
Hey man great video, where did you get that fuel burn timer from?
Hello. It’s an ASA Flight Timer 2 - Digital Aviation Flight Timer. I fabricated an angle bracket and attached it to the handhold.
Not sure this is a wind shear problem as much as it was a high density altitude problem.
Sure, the trees definitely did you no favors and disrupted the homogeneity of the boundary layer wind flow… But your climb performance seemed very shallow/conservative, airspeed fluctuations notwithstanding.
Nice job not crashing though. Always pleasant to hit the altitude at which the air flow becomes more or less homogenous.
No issues with density altitude at KTIW which had a higher DA with normal climb performance.
At Packwood, I experienced violent rotators above the treetops with high winds rapidly changing directions. Very unstable air at this airport in warm weather because it sits along a river in a valley surrounded by high mountains with Mt Rainier being the highest at over 14,000 feet. Not a good call going in there during warmer than usual weather in the middle of the day.
Why are you flying so low above the trees? And why did you only apply full throttle after flying over the trees a little bit? Was this a birdwatching trip? lol
The entire episode was under full throttle with mixture fill rich. The lack of climb performance was a direct result of wind shear causing the low altitude pass over the treetops.