Thank you for tuning in! We recommend checking out our interview with Candice Malcolm as host Aaron Pete debates her on Indian Residential Schools or our interview with Williams Lake Chief Willie Sellars :)
I consider myself an educated person and do not deal in denialism at all. I deal in realism.....I need evidence when it comes to the crimes that the schools have been accused of.
Quesnel is more divided than you know so don't sound so hopefull on truth and reconciliation. And its not because people aren't educated or things were * Taught * people form their own views based on experiences.........
Wish Williams Lake had more teeth on their code of conduct for councillors, especially in regards to online presence. Enjoyed listening to Moses, not a fan of the devils advocate kid though.
This guest needs to listen to the host, who actually has a good grasp on the issue. Yes, there WERE excess deaths at the IRS...But the causes were mostly infectious diseases like TB...which WAS made worse by underfunding, which led to overcrowding and poor nutrition...yes, that's true, but there was no INTENT to "kill" people or cause their deaths...these deaths were the result of poverty. And the only reason that some parts of gov't and the church used the word "genocide" is that you people FORCED them to! Just like these land acknowledgements...people feel forced into it. We remember learning that Indigenous peoples didn't even have a word for private property...now you're accusing me of being on "stolen" land?? Grave Error is not a book of "hatred"...even if your guest hates it. It's a book about truth vs exageration. We already know that 3600-6000 kids did indeed die,and were often indeed buried near the schools... transportation was expensive, plus many kids were orphaned and abandoned, whether you know it or not. So I expect there ARE a few graves here and there. But they died of the diseases of POVERTY, mostly in the early 1900s before penicillin. This guest is not ready to face the truth, and that's because the media allows these "therapeutic "mythologies" to grow! John A didn't try to GENOCIDE your ancestors...he was desperate to HELP them!! It was actually very progressive to have decided to educate your ancestors. Yes, they were underfunded, often poorly ran...featuring harsh church discipline which must have felt like hell on earth. Tearing Sir John A's statues down, an forcing society to demonize him was very damaging, and completely unnecessary. You want reconciliation ? Deal with these truths. Put John A.s head back on The schools were VOLNTARY until 1920! Decades after his death.
How many lawyers, doctors, administers, teachers, machinests, electrisions, etc.came about because of this so called inforced education of native Canadians. Compared to the white population that by the way was forced to have there children go to school or the government would take the White mans children away and put them in foster care so they may be educated. There seems to be something missing in this conversation. The indigenous would not take their children to school as the rest of Canada 🇨🇦 was forsed to do with there children. So special schools were needed. The natives would not cooperate so they were forced lets start the conversation with the reality of the time period.
Thank you Aaron for this podcast and your one with Candice as well. One thing I'd like to point out is contrary to Moses, this is not about hate towards indigenous people. You nailed it when you said, the media coverage caused a mass hysteria. They still to this day use terms like "bodies", "remains of children", "bones", "mass graves". Chief Cazimer's poor choice of initial words started the outrage, anger and grief. Who wouldn't be angry about "remains of 215 children some as young as 3yrs old"? Then as the book points out you had Trudeau, without verifying facts, holding a teddy bear and giving into the hype creating more grief. We saw what happened, angry vigils and protests, flags lowered, Canada Day celebrations cancelled and churches burned. It was inferred that Canada and the churches had committed infanticide on a mass scale and tried to cover it up with clandestine graves. Now no one is allowed to say, wait a minute, what really happened? That is really what the book is about and its more a condemnation of the media and big govt policies. You are right in that this needs to be discussed, it cannot be shut down and people denigrated for simply reading the book and asking questions Keep up the great work!
Thank you for tuning in, and taking the time to share your reflections. We agree wholeheartedly that the issue needs to be discussed. Where we disagree slightly is that the book was just bringing “the other side”. There was definitely a narrative that First Nations have everything they need to succeed and if they’re not, it’s on them now - which we disagree with. Our communities are still dealing with the trauma from Indian Residential Schools, and we hear those first hand accounts daily.
I didn't get that from the book about natives having everything they need. I liken it to a court case where we've heard from the Prosecution but not from the Defense. All we've heard is guilty, guilty, guilty but now the Defense is saying, "Hold on a minute, there are facts being overlooked and context has been totally ignored. Here's where we disagree and why and it starts with the mass hysteria". Moses says something to the effect we have UNDRIP, the TRC, and the Govt all telling us we're right. He forgot it was the govt that started this mess 150 years ago, hardly a ringing endorsement.
great episode, love the discussion.
Thank you for tuning in! We recommend checking out our interview with Candice Malcolm as host Aaron Pete debates her on Indian Residential Schools or our interview with Williams Lake Chief Willie Sellars :)
I consider myself an educated person and do not deal in denialism at all. I deal in realism.....I need evidence when it comes to the crimes that the schools have been accused of.
How did you feel about the interview between Aaron and Michael?
Quesnel is more divided than you know so don't sound so hopefull on truth and reconciliation. And its not because people aren't educated or things were * Taught * people form their own views based on experiences.........
What experience has led to that in your view?
That would be a private conversation due to the fact the some people from Quesnel would see it
Wish Williams Lake had more teeth on their code of conduct for councillors, especially in regards to online presence. Enjoyed listening to Moses, not a fan of the devils advocate kid though.
This guest needs to listen to the host, who actually has a good grasp on the issue. Yes, there WERE excess deaths at the IRS...But the causes were mostly infectious diseases like TB...which WAS made worse by underfunding, which led to overcrowding and poor nutrition...yes, that's true, but there was no INTENT to "kill" people or cause their deaths...these deaths were the result of poverty. And the only reason that some parts of gov't and the church used the word "genocide" is that you people FORCED them to!
Just like these land acknowledgements...people feel forced into it. We remember learning that Indigenous peoples didn't even have a word for private property...now you're accusing me of being on "stolen" land??
Grave Error is not a book of "hatred"...even if your guest hates it. It's a book about truth vs exageration.
We already know that 3600-6000 kids did indeed die,and were often indeed buried near the schools... transportation was expensive, plus many kids were orphaned and abandoned, whether you know it or not. So I expect there ARE a few graves here and there.
But they died of the diseases of POVERTY, mostly in the early 1900s before penicillin.
This guest is not ready to face the truth, and that's because the media allows these "therapeutic "mythologies" to grow!
John A didn't try to GENOCIDE your ancestors...he was desperate to HELP them!! It was actually very progressive to have decided to educate your ancestors.
Yes, they were underfunded, often poorly ran...featuring harsh church discipline which must have felt like hell on earth.
Tearing Sir John A's statues down, an forcing society to demonize him was very damaging, and completely unnecessary.
You want reconciliation ? Deal with these truths. Put John A.s head back on
The schools were VOLNTARY until 1920!
Decades after his death.
How many lawyers, doctors, administers, teachers, machinests, electrisions, etc.came about because of this so called inforced education of native Canadians. Compared to the white population that by the way was forced to have there children go to school or the government would take the White mans children away and put them in foster care so they may be educated. There seems to be something missing in this conversation. The indigenous would not take their children to school as the rest of Canada 🇨🇦 was forsed to do with there children. So special schools were needed. The natives would not cooperate so they were forced lets start the conversation with the reality of the time period.
P.S. Let's add politicians to that list.
Thank you Aaron for this podcast and your one with Candice as well. One thing I'd like to point out is contrary to Moses, this is not about hate towards indigenous people. You nailed it when you said, the media coverage caused a mass hysteria. They still to this day use terms like "bodies", "remains of children", "bones", "mass graves". Chief Cazimer's poor choice of initial words started the outrage, anger and grief. Who wouldn't be angry about "remains of 215 children some as young as 3yrs old"? Then as the book points out you had Trudeau, without verifying facts, holding a teddy bear and giving into the hype creating more grief. We saw what happened, angry vigils and protests, flags lowered, Canada Day celebrations cancelled and churches burned. It was inferred that Canada and the churches had committed infanticide on a mass scale and tried to cover it up with clandestine graves. Now no one is allowed to say, wait a minute, what really happened? That is really what the book is about and its more a condemnation of the media and big govt policies. You are right in that this needs to be discussed, it cannot be shut down and people denigrated for simply reading the book and asking questions
Keep up the great work!
Thank you for tuning in, and taking the time to share your reflections. We agree wholeheartedly that the issue needs to be discussed.
Where we disagree slightly is that the book was just bringing “the other side”. There was definitely a narrative that First Nations have everything they need to succeed and if they’re not, it’s on them now - which we disagree with. Our communities are still dealing with the trauma from Indian Residential Schools, and we hear those first hand accounts daily.
I didn't get that from the book about natives having everything they need. I liken it to a court case where we've heard from the Prosecution but not from the Defense. All we've heard is guilty, guilty, guilty but now the Defense is saying, "Hold on a minute, there are facts being overlooked and context has been totally ignored. Here's where we disagree and why and it starts with the mass hysteria". Moses says something to the effect we have UNDRIP, the TRC, and the Govt all telling us we're right. He forgot it was the govt that started this mess 150 years ago, hardly a ringing endorsement.