Metal Shaping for Beginners: Tig Mig Welding
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- www.proshaper.com
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In this latest installment for the Metal Shaping for Beginners series Wray hammers the valley where the two panels were tac welded together. Wray then uses the Mig welder on the upper half of the fender and then uses a Tig welder on the bottom half. Wray explains the heat zones using each welder, which method he prefers and why. From here he grinds both welds with 50 grit all the way to 120 to make sure it's smooth to the touch. He brings up any low spots on the panel using a slapper and dolly and finally planishes the weld seam with our English Wheel.
Email: Wray@Proshaper.com
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So many people say that the shrink of a mig weld can’t be stretched back out without cracking. Another myth busted. Greatly appreciate it.
thats great work friend,I love that you started with your grandfather,he was a great teacher I can see
Wray, I'm learning techniques for my giant garden shaman. Thanks from Colorado.
I like the content on the hand feel. Been doing this on body work for years and often find myself not even looking at the panel while I do it. In fact I was sanding some drywall the other day and my wife saw me rubbing my hand on it and she told me that it wasn’t a car! Old habits are hard to break😁. I too have dry hands
Wray, you are a TRUE tradesman; I'm hooked now!! Thanks.
MIG snot on it. 🤣 The very first time I used a brand new AIRCO DIP-STICK 160 MIG welder I purchased in 1975 or so, I blew a hole in the 18 gauge panel also. Then I welded the hole shut. After that, I was hooked!
I bought a 1946 Chevrolet pickup to restore. I need right and left rear fenders. They are so expensive to buy new. I wonder how I would do using this process. I am learning a lot watching your videos. Thank you
Really enjoying your beginners series. Thank you for doing these videos.
Thanks Wray - lots of good info in this and all your videos. Appreciate the constant tips which you share during the process.
Thank you for sharing your many years of experience and vast knowledge. The videos are excellent and the explanation of your processes are understandable and easy to follow.
On thin stuff like this 20 gauge, to minimize distortions, you should always stitch weld long seams where you weld an inch or so, then skip ahead. A backing bar in AL or copper can really help too. You should mention that the tig welder you have on the storefront for around $200 is DC only. Given most of the fab you show is in aluminum, I think your watchers should be aware they will not be able to weld Al with that.
Thanks for sharing Wray.
You are a wizard
enjoying your videos
I always wondered how the English will work thank you
Thanks for continuing to share all this info with us Wray.
Wray, thanks so much for sharing your hard earned knowledge so freely. I greatly appreciate it. You’re a true craftsman!
Really enjoying this set of videos , very informative.
So much good information. I’m going to have to watch it two or three or ten times! Thank you, Wray.
Thanks wray for showing the real reality with small mistakes. Learning metalshaping and hoping to come for a class after covid
Man...I really love this series. I hope that I can fly out and take your class sometime.
Wray, Can you do a tutorial on gas welding, Perhaps hammer welding?
Hi Donn, I am not an expert gas welder. I much prefer tig over gas. Once you try both it is a no brainer to choose tig over gas. There are some that will never give up gas because they get good to excellent results. I have had students do excellent tig welds in minutes, after trying it for the first time. Not so with gas.
Thanks again Wray , I have always been convinced that the tig process was the best way. On the other hand the mig process. the warping and possible burn threw then the weld splatter that can be controlled somewhat but why add more work when you are trying to focus on the final outcome.
Thankyou, the comment about using mig and not having access to the rear of the panel such as quater skins is right on the money. In that case controlling the distortion (valley) is more important so that the use of filler is kept to a minimum. I really appreciate your videos and hope to attend your class one day.
Very good
Thanks Wray another very helpful tutorial I do like your English Wheel.
Thank you Wray 😁
Just bought my first tig machine, really looking forward to learning it thanks for the motivation Wray
You will love it and wonder why you didn't make the plunge sooner.
Thanks for posting this series. I have learned a lot.
Very nice, learning a lot
Looking good Wray.
Thank you for always sharing.???? Do you ever try the air driven belt file sanders i have a 13inch by 1/4 3M and. 18inch long by 1/2 wide by Cornwell that are rotatable and help a ton on dressing the weld area HF sells a baxter brand i believe an i have used but it didn't hold up long term if you go H.Fright get the extended warranty on it for sure. Thanks again for all you give. 👍👍👍👍⚒️🛠️⚒️
I have tried belt sanders and cutoff wheels to knock weld beads down. I prefer the 3"Norton Blaze 50 grit roloc discs followed up by 80 grit and then 120 Hook and loop on a 2" foam pad.
A Very informative series Wray. I love this panel razing technique. thank you
Great videos , The way you explain things is very good and I think like myself is very much appreciated please carry on with the great work👍😀
Outstanding instruction as usual!
Thankyou again for sharing your skill
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, it has saved me time and effort, thank you very much teacher.saludos desde Oaxaca.
Excellent content- as usual !! Thanks, Wray.
Excellent series! I just subscribed
Since the TIG usually has a larger heat affected zone than the MIG do you find that the TIG causes more disruption of the metal, shrinkage etc? I am a beginning TIG welder but have MIG welded for many years & I have always been told that the more heat you put into the metal the more distortion you will cause. I would also like to thank you for your videos they help me a lot! I live in a very remote area of Montana & there is no one around here that does this kind of metal work. I have recently purchased an English Wheel, a bead roller, & some other metal shaping tools just because I wanted to learn the craft to help me build my old hot rods. Your videos have helped me to be able to 'see' how the work is done something I have no access to here in Montana. Thanks again.
Hi Ron, once you use a tig a learn to keep your beads small yet still get full penetration your heat affected zone is narrow. This makes clean up easier. If you also learn to use the shrinking disc, slapper, and dolly to their fullest potential heat distortion is really not a major factor. Get those skill sets all up to speed by practicing.
Ray I use a cutoff wheel to first grind weld so only weld bead is gound then go to disc
Fantastic vid Wray. you are extremely tallented.
You make it look so easy.
I wish I could do this.
I want to start with soemthing simple like a motorcycle tank.
A motorcycle fender might be easier.
Thanks!
Eva Cassidy
Excellent video, have never used a English wheel. Can you use an old fender for a buck? Thanks for making these vids. denny from texas
Hi Dennis, go to my UA-cam homepage by clicking the round icon at each video. At the homepage click the video option from the drop down menu. You will now see all 260 videos in my library in the order they were made. Watch the two newest ones that will answer your question.
I wonder if I could take 2 smooth skateboard wheels and hand english wheel some of the dent work I need to do on my car. I have access to both sides and now I'm wondering if I could roll wheels over the area from the inside and out with some elbow grease. Awesome information and very inspiring too
There are two types of dents: Area dents and Arrangement dents. The paintless dent repair specialists repair arrangement dents, denst that can be pushed out. Imagine you have a basket ball that isn't fully inflated in your hand. You push with your finger and the surface dents in, that is an arrangement dent. Put a little air in the basketball and the dent pops right out with no evidence that it ever was dented. No go out your car's fender and with a 10 LB sledge hammer swing it at you fender as hard as you can. Most of the damage will be an arrangement dent but because the impact was so powerful you also stretched the metal so the dent is a area dent too. You changed the area value and the arrangement value with the impact. The area value will need to be shrunk.
These beginner series of metal forming are awesome 1 question do you always finish the welds with 120 grit thanks
Hi Patrick, glad you like my videos! Yes, a 120 grit finish is a good place to start priming.
Like the content of the videos what size mig wire do you use and is it flux core or solid With the mig what size tungsten did you use Thanks again for or time to do the videos
Thanks! Hope you keep watching..023" solid wire. 3/32" 2% Thorated tungsten.
Great series! How did you manage not to stretch the panel while wheeling the welds?
The weld zone always shrinks a little, you need to stretch it back out. You stretch it with a wheel, air planishing hammer, or a slapper/hammer and dolly. In the process of stretching the weld zone out you might go slightly too far. That is what the shrinking disc fixes.
Hey Wray are you a self taught welder or did you enroll in a class/program at college if so how many welding classes did you take.
Self taught, plus my students through the years have given me tips.
@@proshaper if I wanted to make a frame for my project do you think a welding fabrication course would be good, or are confidant in the self taught ways in making a car frame and suspension.
@ryanmichalski7420 I cover welding in my class. Take a thirteen day class and spend two or three days welding and 10 days learning to shape sheet metal.
If the MIG side didnt hold up so the mig have to be a continous bead to be really compareble and a fair competition, zapp-zapp-zapp-zapp one ontop of another it is a given to give coldshuts and "melt errors". Dont get me wrong. I am all for the tig (you convinsed me to try it out) but that not the right way of mig welding sheet metal. Do it like tig, 2 spotwelds for every inch and then one continous bead.
Or just tigweld. Thats the best ofc. The tig is flawless. Wish i was as Good as you on that one but hey, practise makes perfect
Hey Wray, thanks for vid, you explain everything really well. Would a tig with pulse be the best way to go to limit the amount of heat input and control the amount of material deposited or does it not matter. Pretty good welds with the cheap machines too.
Pulse is a very nice feature but you can pulse with a foot pedal or finger button like I did in this video.
Another really enjoyable quality information packed video, I'm thoroughly enjoying these thank you! Regarding dressing the welds, is there a reason MIG tends to crack over TIG, or is it more a matter of being careful and taking the time? Many thanks.
I would guess that the mig welds that crack are cold welds that didn't penetrate enough. If you set the mig correctly you will have no problems.
@@proshaper Thanks for taking the time to reply Wray, greatly appreciated and that makes perfect sense.
Mig welds crack because they are hardened by carbon from the 25% carbon dioxide in the shielding gas that is necessary during mig welding. They are also penetrate less because they are DCEP...electron theory states that power travels from the negative to positive. The DCEP section in a sine wave (AC) is known as the “cleaning action” and DCEN is known as the “penetrating”. Because MIG welds are DCEP you can get away with less cleaning unlike tig, but you suffer in penetration. They make up for that with oxygen (in carbon dioxide) in the shielding gas, which when the carbon is introduced to the metal in a high temperature state, produces hardened welds.
@@steveshepard Thanks for your input too Steve, much appreciated. We tend to run a 5% Co2 mixture in the UK, used to be called Argoshield Lite. I think nowadays it's a higher Co2 content (technically a MAG weld?). I was also taught to weld 'hot' with MIG on sheet metal to gain maximum penetration, maybe this is why cracking wasn't common. That's what pricked my curiosity. Thanks for taking the time to reply also, it's much appreciated.
@@steveshepard go to straight argon would help
Question for you Wray, I see a lot of UA-cam fab guys doing small spot welds only and waiting for cooling. Do you use that technique when welding panels that can’t be put through the English wheel? Great channel! Love watching and have learned so much so thank you!
The videos you are watching that show cooling techniques to limit heat are probably doing repairs with no access to the backside of the weld. That type of "repair" is usually frosted with fillers later to smooth out the surface. If you have access to the back side of the weld and know the rules of the metal you can smooth out any distortion caused by heat. If you are steady and constant in your welding so that the heat affected zone shows a nice narrow parallel line the distortion is minimal. A weld on a butt welded panel should be close to invisible after you are done and should require no fillers other than primer.
Great video Wray!
Once the panel is tacked together, does it make a distortion difference if you weld from the center --> outwards to the panel edges? Or weld in 1 direction from edge --> edge?
If you have backside access you can make the panel do anything you want it to. No need of a fear of welding distortion.
Hi Wray Great videos as usual. What size wire do you use for the mig?
I believe that mig has .023" wire in it.
In the previous video, did you use the Bosch shears that you show in your Amazon store? I bought some pneumatic shears from harbor freight and they don't work well at all. Is there a pneumatic brand that you recommend? Great video by the way!
Yes, I believe the newer version of my cordless shear is in my Amazon store. I do not know of a pneumatic shear.
Wray, do you ever use a rubber inner tube on the upper wheel to manipulate the panel? I was curious how you felt about it, cheers, Doug
I have tried it, I see no reason for it. I have rubber top wheels that I sometime use to create a tight single bend radius ( like a 3/4" dia radius bend). All single bend rolls or radius bends ( like a 1930s hood) I make on my radius bending tool, which is nothing more than a 4" dia tube with a blanket it on it. The blanket is the key element it creates a very soft fulcrum. I always cut the metal blank six inches longer to allow for leverage.
@@proshaper Thanks for the input!
Can you elaborate on the difference between your top wheel and the solid wheels like imperial uses?
I make my wheels the way I do because they work better. They are lighter ( easier to roll back and forth) and they are wider. Wider has advantages. You have to try and compare yourself to fully understand. Look at race car tires they were all skinny in the beginning.... things change and evolve to the better as long as traditional thinking doesn't stop the change.
What determines when you should use a slapper or hammer and dolly?
A slapper wins over a body hammer most of the time.
That piece is essentially two relatively flat sections joined by a really compound curve 90 degree channel. How do you decide where the joint between the 2 pieces should go for minimal difficulty?
Always place your welds in easy areas to clamp and also easy to planish smooth.
Wray, curious. What size wire are you using, and what were the settings. I'm assuming 75% Argon 25% CO2 Gas?
Hi Eric, yes on the mig 75%/ 25% as you stated. .023" wire. Nothing fancy, I used a piece of scrap to dial in the wire speed and amperage, watching the penetration and the sound. Sound is real important, if the sound is right on a mig the weld will be right.
@@proshaper Dead on on the sound aspect. I tell all of the people I certify that the sound is as important as anything else. You can hear when it is running correctly. Good presentation as usual!
I can TIG pretty well with things on my bench , steel, aluminum, and sheet . But on a car, for vertical or overhead, I just absolutely can’t figure out how to TIG without dipping tungsten .
For panels attached to a car, MIG only thug that works for me .
Maybe I just need more TIG practice
I see many people weld fender pieces or patch panels and they stager the welds to minimize shrinkage then cool with air so the panel doesn't get hot to touch. Why do you use so much heat?
You are going to get shrinkage and distortion no matter what technique you use. "Metal is Clay" learn how just like clay you can have total control of the process. I didn't use a lot of heat, I used just the correct amount.
Instead of using beater bag an hammer to even out valley in seam welding of this fender could you wheel on light pressure ?
Hi Kurt, You shouldn't roll over mig or tig tack welds or finished unground welds in an English wheel. You have to grind them to the parent metal surface level before wheeling over welds.
Thanks for responding! I’m learning a lot!
You might put a thin clean cotton cloth under your hand to read the surface of a panel.
or use the thin white gloves that many japanese metal workers use.
Wray, how wide of gaps you use when you tig?
Excellent question! No gap is best. The tighter the joint the better the weld. With a perfect tight joint you can fusion weld, adding no rod. The welds clean up much faster. Sometimes you might end up with small divots when fusion welding. If that is the case you can fill them easily. The goal to achieve is fast fusion welds.
@@proshaper
Thank you for making the videos and answering my question.
Thank you sir!
I would like to see this oxy welded like they did back in the day
I can gas weld ok. If you watch my welding videos I believe I did some gas welding of steel and aluminum in the video. My UA-cam channel home page: ua-cam.com/users/c /proshaper
Too much heat
How are your boats Wray?
Unfortunately right now they are all covered up outside waiting their turn to come into the shop.
I look forward to seeing what you're going to do with them. Thanks for this series
what kind of filler rod with the tig ?
For steel tig welding of sheet metal ER70S -2 .035" or .030"
for aluminum sheet .0625" 1100 aluminum rod
Why mixing in MIG instead of TIG throughout?
It was a side by side comparison. I would say that mig welding is more common than tig welding in automotive sheet metal panel joining all over the world. A lot of people see no need to give up their mig welding. Once they try tig they will wonder why they hadn't switched earlier. A lot of my videos will be comparisons of various methods.
@@proshaper
I agree👍👏
I was brought up using OA and TIG welds are as easy to work with, compared with hard/brittle MIG.
The first time I tried to use a body file/hammer & dolly on MIG I swore at it.
Now only use MIG where no work other than a little grinding is needed for finishing off.
I need to replace the bottom 1/3rd section of one door on my 1935 Austin Seven Ruby, and will use TIG throughout.
Tack first I think once the butt join is perfect with little or no gap, then hammer and dolly each in turn before joining them with a continuous weld and possibly only needing little use of filler rod.
1.2mm material will be relatively easy to work with.
What where you mig and tig settings
I don't think the settings I used would translate well. A mig you set by the sound and how much penetration. A tig you set by penetration. All welders are different so you have to experiment to find the setting that works best for you and the machine you are using.
@@proshaper i realize that but experimentation means trying all sorts of different settings until you find something that works that's why it's ideal to find out from various people what works and what doesn't and then try it on your own equipment... that's why it's important always to share information on your videos
@@772777777777777 I don't use either of the welders in my regular business. Watch my welding videos and I discuss and show settings of the welders I do use on a daily basis.
ua-cam.com/users/proshaper
How much is a French wheels and do they make a small one?
?????
@@proshaper that is a English wheel I ment. I would like to know how mush one would cost and if they make a smaller one
What happened to the TIG vs MIG tacking comparison? Didn't get to it in the "Refining the Panel" vid, and its already been done here. Did I miss a video?
Ok, I found it - would help to have all videos in this series numbered in order of building the fender panel.
ua-cam.com/video/Dlfha6bv8oo/v-deo.html
You need more practice with mig welding thin sheet metal. You're putting to much heat in the panel. You should place tacks in between tacks while moving around the panel and cool your work with air. Never run a continuous bead whe butt welding sheet metal.
I tig weld all my panels this was just a comparison.
In my haste I made the comment before watching the whole video. My bad
Tig v’s Mig??? Mig is seen as semi-skilled but Mig is faster
Mig welding is for heathens.
For those that haven't tried tig welding yet.