Last week I got VW's software update to version 3. Applying the update deletes all settings, all saved waypoints and preferred charging stations. Sorry VW, please make an internship in a software company. Deleting customer data during an upgrade is an absolute no-go.
My ID.4 tries to kill me on a daily basis, the lane keeping assist can’t tell the difference between paint, cracks, removed pain and tar, and it’s not a gentle nudge in the right (or wrong) direction, it’s a violent jerk towards the central divide, a concrete wall or the huge semi truck next to me, it’s so over the top that I swear it’s out to kill me
In UK, you get fined £600 for texting at the wheel. This involves looking at a screen and pushing buttons. It appears that driving a VW EV also involves looking at a screen and pushing buttons. Will you be fined for driving your car? (By the way VW, piano-black is a no-no in cars. Better sack someone, quick!)
Dear Electric Viking, love your channel. Took delivery of Chatanooga built 2023 AWD PRO S with 3.1 software on 10/31/22. Not one complaint or problem. Brian
No issues so far with the car itself, Apple CarPlay needs to be improved. From a UI/UX standpoint it could have been better thought out. I've gotten use to the touch buttons on the steering wheel, swiping up/down for channels or tracks, swipe left and right for volume, once learned, not an issue. Quick swipe on the dash for volume, one I've learned to quickly feel for the ridges, no need to light them. Only issue I'd be concerned about is support the car as it is for years to come. I'd hate to get left behind as some 21 ID4 owners that haven't received any updates or resolution to their ongoing issues. Honestly, sitting down with the owners manual will do wonders in understanding how they intended things to work and how things actually work. When new a lot of little issues were user error, not the car. 22 ID4 Pro S Gradient AWD. built 7/12/2022
You're right. It isn't that bad. I drive a 2022 Golf. But it isn't good either let's be honest. In my car the instrument cluster is just _nice_ (that's something you don't have if you have an ID) and the HUD is good too. The haptic buttons are workable. But the swiping and tapping to get the radio to another preset? Or up the fan speed? Or change the car's drive mode? Or turn off traction control? Why? Buttons are so much better. And only because everybody (VW) wanted to copy Tesla. It seems they didn't know their customers very well.
I have the half sibling to the ID.4, the Skoda Enyaq, which still has the real buttons and not that touch junk VW will also change back for the next facelift. However, the UI is really bad designed and many things which should be in are forgotten. In addition the system quite often has dementia..... Whatever is automotive technology Skoda got almost perfect and than they had to use the VW software crap.
It's the reason I didn't consider the ID3 when I bought our ZOE. VW Software has been a nightmare for many, many years. My 2009 VW Passat with tech pack (£1k "upgrade") basically did not work on any level. My son's Audi Software crashes all the time, and they can not fit it. Utter nightmare, so when I heard they were struggling with software, it wasn't a difficult decision despite the benefit of VW's ground up EV platform.
"18 months time" is typical of German computer programming. In the US, Apple, Google, Amazon, Ebay, Tesla, SAS, etc. would tell their programmers "stay up all night all weekend" and have a solution that works Monday morning. It will then be tested for a week at the most with a team of 50 people and be downloadable in 8-20 days. Minor improvements will then occur over the next few weeks if small refinements are required but the main issues will resolved with the first fix. I think the Germans already have a phrase for "Heads Will Roll" if technology is not fixed in record time. Have some professional pride will ya or do you guys need a Luger pointed at your temples?
I went to a drive through burger joint. I ordered burger, fries and a coke. I paid and was told to pull in to the parking lot and my order would be brought to me. After an hour I walked inside and asked what the deal was. A worker said - no burgers delivered. They called the butcher who said no cows showed up. The farmer said grain for the cows was never delivered - skinny cows are no good. Then the manager came out and told me to 'just wait' as they'd have the whole thing sorted out by tomorrow's breakfast - they HAVE eggs. VW too?
Sam you keep saying how this Legacy automobile company will go bankrupt , and "This Other automobile Legacy company" will not make it to 2035. *"I never considered self implosion"* . Why would someone wait around for a year and a 1/2 for a company to fix many serious problems, When they can buy a car right now, with everything working properly. I can see Volkswagen, Being one Legacy automobile manufacturer in serious trouble. One thing Tesla did that was very smart, Was to give Beta systems out to lot of their customers to check out , and have "them" give Tesla feedback.
That would be better in the short term only. The auto industry is going the way the phone industry went 20 years ago. Apple introducing the IPhone provided an ecosystem while other manufacturers provided phones. Tesla did this in the auto industry with their SW that deliver an ecosystem and not just a car. VW wants to emulate Tesla and most chinese manufacturers are doing the same. Going with Google Automotive would become a box provider without a own ecosystem and depending largely on the Google own strategy. I have an ID.3 and I am fairy happy with it. It is a great pleasure to drive and in the end we get used to the SW. There are features I would like that the SW does not support, but from version 3.0 they are available. VW has been (very) slowly learning but it is improving. I tried the 2022 ID.3 model with SW 3.2 and it works great (I have a 2021 model with SW 2.4 waiting for the upgrade)
@@luso57 I don't remember Nokia or Motorola successfully developing their own operating system. It is the same with the legacy automakers. They make good hardware, not software.
@@mcrkon I do not know about Motorola. But I worked at Nokia in Finland at that time. Nokia had simbian on the phones and a small team developed Maemo a SW like Android before Android existed. They released some Maemo tablets and phones, N770, N800, N810, N900. The problem was a wrong strategic decision. They did not want to kill the old Simbian and replace with Maemo, and was not the capability to develop SW. Much later, Samsung adopted Maemo and made Tizen with it.
We have one of those stone-age software BEVs from VW. The interesting thing ist that VW fan boys get really offended when you criticize it. However, VW was never able to write decent software. I know what they tried to get into the Linux kernel. 3 years to fix it looks really highly optimistic. Until the completely change operations it will never happen at lest not before the dar is ready to be scraped. The way it feels is that many small groups wrote a piece of it and then it was cobbled together in a rush. If you want to change something you have to find where it is hidden in one of the many subsub-sub-menus and many things are simply forgotten.
They probably do have a better or the best infotainment system. But every Hyundai or Kia dealer I went into wanted $5,000 extra for any EV model that they could get a hold of! And because they're not made in America they don't qualify for the $7,500 tax rebate. So far we love our 23 ID 4 Pro S model! The electrician putting in my 240 power supply to my garage wants to buy one for his wife too!
I really wanted to get a Vw Golf for my company car, but the wait was too long. I accepted an Hyundai Ioniq 2021 and it has been ultra reliable. The only time the software had an issue was to do with apple carplay, and that was six months ago, with no issues since. Hyundai/Kia and Tesla are the benchmark with this tech. I wouldn’t swap my Ioniq for a Golf.
Even the most basic human factors design is appaling - take the climate screen on the ID.3: The main on/off button is "iluminated" for off and "dark" for on, but the other controls on the same screen are the otherway around. And VW are so arrogant. I took delivery of an ID.3 that had the capability for timed recharging at different locations. It worked fine, but when the car software was up-issued that feature was removed without prior notice - so I've no got a car with a lesser spec than the one I paid for. That is no way to treat a customr. My first and last VW.
Some day manufacturers will understand that what owners say they want isn’t always right. I don’t have anything against touchscreen systems, but there’s a balance that needs to be achieved. Anything that’s commonly used in the car while it’s in motion should be accessed with standard knobs and buttons. Doing so reduces taking your eyes off the road because it that feel and location of these things becomes muscle memory and you’ll have feedback to know you successfully engaged the function you were looking for. That’s good UX/UI design.
Unfortunately mechanical knobs and buttons cost more to engineer than bunging everything onto an ill-considered iPad thingy and fixing that to the dash of a car. When the thingy fails they won’t be able to mend it and a replacement will cost thousands. A car is not the same as a sofa, and controls need to appropriate for the automotive environment.
Personally, I don't mind capacitive buttons. I don't even mind how the menus work. You can get used to anything. I think they should concentrate on making the software work according to spec, and work every time. Even if it's slow, I want it reliable. And I want updates actually rolled out. They don't even have to fix everything in a single mega-update. Just roll out fixes every month or so. It would be nice just to see some progress.
The way it looks and fees it won't be easy to fix. That crap isn't designed with real modules and if you look what difficulties they have with updates most likely every hardware combination needs a specifically compiled software. To be honest, I don't expect to have a reliable and functional software in the lifetime of my car.
Buttons are better ,For example I want something I can just press on for heating and a knob to adjust the temperature, using a screen to adjust these things is dangerous when driving.
Wow, the board does testing? Great job, Can I get paid for testing same as te board's salary? This must be the most expensive testing of all time! Usually you get students to do that kind of job, mininmum salary.
In my opinion management interference in the software design is THE problem VW has. The engineers most likely know how to write good software but as one can read in many places there is a lot of infighting in CARIAD where the software is made.
In two weeks, we’ll have had our ID4 for one year. 30.000 kms of enjoyable, trouble free motoring. Personally I like the controls. They work really well for us. The 3.0 update was a sobering disappointment. We Connect is gone. The navigation is worse and sucks. Apple Car Play saves the day with navigation. And it is good to know that a VW manager is openly conceding that they need to radically up their software game. Knowing what I now know and taking a years’ driving experience into account, I would still buy this vehicle. Even with the issues and bugs, the whole driving experience is light years ahead of the 2008 Mercedes W211 we had previously.
This is a Tesla cult channel: all VW said was they were rewriting a whole new software system for the ID Platform that would transform the platform, the new updates for the Software are now available for all of the original problems, I have an ID4 and never had any problem with it, I test drove a Model Y and wasn't impressed, the software seems great, but it's a car, not a laptop, the driving experience was underwhelming, the ID4 is a better car, maybe the Tesla is a better laptop.
@@johhny711 It is a cult when someone say something negative about another carmaker failing to improve its software even thou they spent billions on the software development? Wouldn't that make you a VW cult to be so defensive?
Is this software a problem for all Infotainments on other non VW EV's? Coz I got my brand new 2023 TRoc recently and it's software is extremely frustrating and unreliable. Been obsessively checking for updates lol
Doubt VM software is as bad a LDV's. Hired one for a week from Eurocar, nice car but the controls were terrible. Could not turn off the radio, and we had it a week!!
Maybe they were right to have fired Diest. This is a colossal management failure. It sounds like they had no architect they just put a thousand monkeys on the job and hoped that they would get something. It shouldn't be that hard to get this right. They had an example of how to do this, all they had to do was look at what Tesla did and start from there. The most important lesson from Tesla would have been to get OTAs working from day one. Once you can do that it's easier to iterate on everything else. That shouldn't have been hard to do. Every Linux distro updates itself on a frequent basis, they've been doing this for 20 years. It's a solved problem.
I dunno, imho, Diess wasn’t there to see it thru. Obviously this is not easy but it doesn’t sound that the board meets once a month to check on it. Musk would probably be hands on weekly internal releases.
So, another reveal about the VW/Golf-R infotainment disaster. I had hoped the "fix" would be in by now. Seems I was wrong. I'd wanted to really like the mk8 R. I did. But currently, I need only cast a quick glance at the infotainment center on my mk6 Golf-R (and make changes on the fly). The mk8 is a cluster, if ever there was one. Maybe a repo'd '22 RS3?
So my bf bought an ID3 and I bought a MINI electric. I’m SO HAPPY I have buttons in my MINI! We drove his ID3 from Surrey to Strasbourg and back and it’s was an awesome drive. The touch buttons are bloody stupid though! He’s since sold the car and bought a Cupra born, same car, better software. The touch buttons remain but at least it’s doesn’t have such a buggy system and the car looks better as well. I’ll stick with MINI tho thanks 😂
That VW software reminds me a BlackBerry....Yeah some of you don't even know what BlackBerry is, exactly!, if they want to fix it, I have a suggestion, put all VW software engineers going to work on a Tesla every day.
While the haptic buttons are a problem, the bugginess is MUCH worse. Having the sound just decide not to work on a long drive - once you're already on the highway and can't stop the car to reboot is a problem. COMPLETE failure to communicate plans to US owners? Even worse. What's the deal with VW of America not offering even the 1st upgrade? Are the upgrades really that much worse? Must be. VW will have a LOT of 3 year leases roll off and the cars returned which will be too buggy to sell.
Let's invent it here if not elsewhere: ID-Gate. It will mean rushing to the EV market when you know massive numbers will fail and you hope to clean it up (cheaply) later.
"beep constantly?" Very important feature for McDonald's employees. Every machine in a McDonald's beeps constantly. Every McDonald's worker ignores the beeps. Problem solve'd.
New touareg system is terrible. Exactly as you descripted. New restarts as new car I had to make many times. I say it work on random pulse bases. Real disaster. Mirek
They haven’t got a clue on this and need to go to something standard like Google Automotive or even (whisper it) licensing Tesla software (i.e. beg Elon). They are doomed if they do this in house.
Isn’t it amazing how hard headed big business is- one phone call and they could licence the whole Tesla FSD and whole software suite and they would revolutionise their order book. The first guys to do this will join Tesla up front and the rest could fail.
@@jamespaul2587 let’s see how the future develops James- companies who find themselves so far behind I still think should be talking to Tesla and I would like to predict that a uniform universal/ global hardware software system including FSD might still be agreed between some then built into these leading EV car manufacturers and it may even become a norm- why not - most of the hard work is done
The reason imo that VW is so transparant in admitting fault, is because they have the luxury of blaming their whole software debacle on Diess. Just read the comments here. Apparently they've now hired some expert consultannts who advice to 'listen to feedback' and 'make mock-ups' so now they will magically become software champions... /s Imo Diess faced a near impossible task with VW's corporate structure and power distribution to make the transition to EVs. You think he had a hard time dealing with this environment when trying to build a new type of vehicle? Try transitioning your software architecutre and development... One requires the breaking down of doors, the other a whole different kind of change. This same corporate structure will now act as if 1) transitioning to EV's was the logical plan all along and 2) the shit result of their software is mainly to be blamed on some decision Diess made in a vacuum.. which imo is nothing more than a convenient lie. My best guess, is that they will install truth-washers. People without a vision nor a plan, but who are exceptionally good at painting a pretty picture of 'lessons learned' and how tomorrow will be brighter. Whilst also making sure we don't do anything overly drastic such as upset the power structure or the way we look at software development and -integration
What I see is: they have ideas, how to solve the issues. But they do not know, how to solve them. Tesla is good at doing things, they have ideas how to solve, but do not know, VW is not. So 3 years may be not enough.
I'm curious whether Volkswagen consulted people who have driven electric cars for a while on what they wanted and needed in an electric car! It seems that a bunch of petrol heads got together and decided what they thought we would wish to do.
If there is one solution that works out of the box and has literally zero downsides other than increased manufacturing cost compared to a second solution that you have to get used to for a couple of months (and still remains more dangerous, even if it’s not annoying anymore) I would go with the first one
They better fix the hardware as well. If I have to drive with this slow POS infotainment system for 4 years I'm never going back to a VW group car again. I feel ripped of paying almost 50k for an electric car powered by a pi zero or something.
This video makes it sound like driving an electric car is harder than solving a Rubik's cube. Dude, just put the car in drive and push the pedal. That is literally all it takes to drive these cars.
Not just for VW: Too many super complex electronic digital controls for EVERYTHING. One little circuit goes out, and a complex series of malfunctions can happen. We shouldn't rely so much on supercomputers for absolutely everything. We need stuff that normal people have at least a chance of fixing if something goes wrong.
Ok, so VW has electronic problems, but since no electronic circuitry will always be 100% perfect, why should we have absolute confidence in the self driving feature, I see accidents happening.
@@L1VE3V1L It's that "If any' bit that worries me, but Hey look on the bright side "Officer, it was the car that did it , not MY fauilt" [and isn't it going to be a lawyers picnic when it comes to the insurance angle]
Democracy is more important than a car -I think, Milano won't be the only one, driving a tesla now says a lot more about you, it says you support Trump for starters, in the USA it says you are a right-wing Republican. Musk has lost his mind.
Amen to that, and now he'll be working with Tesla to punish them for it. Wouldn't it be insane if VW ended up going out of business while he's crushing it at Tesla
@@nothere572 yeah but they didn’t fire him because the project is junk, they fired him because they refused to be told it needs to be fixed. For that, VW deserves everything coming in spades.
This is a Tesla cult channel: all VW said was they were rewriting a whole new software system for the ID Platform for 2024 that would transform the platform, the new updates for the Software are now available for all of the original problems, I have an ID4 and never had any problem with it, I test drove a Model Y and wasn't impressed, the software seems great, but it's a car, not a laptop, the driving experience was underwhelming, the ID4 is a better car, maybe the Tesla is a better laptop
I tested an ID3 for a week. I liked the ride, the looks, the comfort, the ambient lights and especially the matrix lights. Didn’t like the look of the seats and the piano 🎹 plastic and the buttons on the wheel. Didn’t know what I was pressing and the vibration feedback was lagging behind so it felt confusing. What killed it for me was the parking in the garage of my apartment. We have a hydraulic parking place where you drive up steep incline and the whole thing can be pushed up so you can park another car. It’s quite steep so the PDCs of cars go off and you need to just push on. However, the ID3 had some auto break system which was constantly panicking and hitting the breaks really roughly. The auto hold feature was also grabbing with the parking breaks. So I had to go through like 5 submenus deep that weren’t intuitive at all to deactivate two options. But when I then pushed on, you had to push the accelerator quite hard for the brake to release. So when it did, it was almost jumping back and I had to be careful not to hit the wall. It just felt like a rubberband that suddenly releases. And when I started the car the next day, the systems were switched back on! The menu was so laggy and hidden. One was in the driving assist submenu, the other in the braking submenu. It was also grabbing while I wanted to make a turn into the garage as it thought there wasn’t enough space to make it. The experience was shockingly bad. Then I tested a Model 3 and I just drove around that corner, put it in reverse, mirrors adjusted down nicely and I JUST DROVE UP in a super controllable and linear way. It felt like the car perfectly understood what I‘m trying to do and just did it. That’s the reason I have the Tesla today and I’m very happy with it.
Once you set the setting correctly they now stay in place with the latest update, Tesla now, unfortunately, come with a political badge, anyone who drives one will now be labelled a right-winger :)
@@johhny711 Yeah, it’s a shame that he lost his marbles recently. He was always nuts but it was somewhat tolerable. His former global perception also opened a lot of doors to e.g. fast track approvals. I respect what he built with Tesla and SpaceX. Even if he lies about being a founder, the real challenge is to go into mass production and he made that happen and took a lot of risks. There is also a lot of good stuff in the pipeline. However, I hope he finds a good CEO and people focus on the product.
@@Samsson83 First time I saw a Tesla I laughed out loud, as a car it was a heap of sh1t, with panel gaps, squeaking noises coming from the suspension rattles in the door, wind noise, etc, but the software was amazing. But this is a car, not a laptop. Telsa owners are members of a cult, he threatened to shut off Starlink to Ukraine after a conversation with Putin, he put Trump back on Twitter, he called for people to vote Republican, and he treats his workforce like slaves. No doubt he's a very clever guy, but he's losing it now.
@@johhny711 Well, the cars have come a long way. Mine is from China and built quality is decent. I drove 13 BMWs, Fords and Mercedes before and nothing bothers me so far. About the political stuff, I think he is just naive as well as a grandiose narcissist. He always seems to think he knows better than everybody else and he offers „solutions“ he THINKS are helpful but irritate people. But he was a democrat for a long time. Over time, I think he personally got really pissed of by Biden constantly ignoring his/Teslas achievements.
@@Samsson83 The man is a genius, but when you buy a Tesla because Elon is very upfront about his politics you are branded with his politics, I mean if he manages to get Trump elected in 2024 and America loses its democracy you will have played a small part in helping that.
To me, it sounds like alot of 1st world problems. So what if iphone overhaul its system.. (it sucks anyways compared to android) just relearn it and get on with your life. We are becoming a very mentally lazy generation
Last week I got VW's software update to version 3. Applying the update deletes all settings, all saved waypoints and preferred charging stations. Sorry VW, please make an internship in a software company. Deleting customer data during an upgrade is an absolute no-go.
Vw is notta software company Tesla is notta car company
VW and software is like a rhino and mountain climbing.......
@@michaelstarkey9745 apple is not a phone company, google is not a software company, what's your point ?
I had exactly the same updating the s/w on my Kia EV last year.
My ID.4 tries to kill me on a daily basis, the lane keeping assist can’t tell the difference between paint, cracks, removed pain and tar, and it’s not a gentle nudge in the right (or wrong) direction, it’s a violent jerk towards the central divide, a concrete wall or the huge semi truck next to me, it’s so over the top that I swear it’s out to kill me
In UK, you get fined £600 for texting at the wheel. This involves looking at a screen and pushing buttons.
It appears that driving a VW EV also involves looking at a screen and pushing buttons.
Will you be fined for driving your car? (By the way VW, piano-black is a no-no in cars. Better sack someone, quick!)
Dear Electric Viking, love your channel. Took delivery of Chatanooga built 2023 AWD PRO S with 3.1 software on 10/31/22. Not one complaint or problem. Brian
No issues so far with the car itself, Apple CarPlay needs to be improved. From a UI/UX standpoint it could have been better thought out. I've gotten use to the touch buttons on the steering wheel, swiping up/down for channels or tracks, swipe left and right for volume, once learned, not an issue. Quick swipe on the dash for volume, one I've learned to quickly feel for the ridges, no need to light them. Only issue I'd be concerned about is support the car as it is for years to come. I'd hate to get left behind as some 21 ID4 owners that haven't received any updates or resolution to their ongoing issues. Honestly, sitting down with the owners manual will do wonders in understanding how they intended things to work and how things actually work. When new a lot of little issues were user error, not the car.
22 ID4 Pro S Gradient AWD. built 7/12/2022
You're right. It isn't that bad. I drive a 2022 Golf. But it isn't good either let's be honest. In my car the instrument cluster is just _nice_ (that's something you don't have if you have an ID) and the HUD is good too. The haptic buttons are workable. But the swiping and tapping to get the radio to another preset? Or up the fan speed? Or change the car's drive mode? Or turn off traction control? Why? Buttons are so much better. And only because everybody (VW) wanted to copy Tesla. It seems they didn't know their customers very well.
I have the half sibling to the ID.4, the Skoda Enyaq, which still has the real buttons and not that touch junk VW will also change back for the next facelift. However, the UI is really bad designed and many things which should be in are forgotten. In addition the system quite often has dementia..... Whatever is automotive technology Skoda got almost perfect and than they had to use the VW software crap.
Try having android, it's even worse!
@@kimwenzel1525 Drove a rented Polestar 2 for a month and software was definately better.
I own a ID.3. Yes the software is bad but not so bad that it makes me crazy. I still enjoy driving my car.
They should go with the android automotive os like a lot of other automakers are doing
It's the reason I didn't consider the ID3 when I bought our ZOE. VW Software has been a nightmare for many, many years. My 2009 VW Passat with tech pack (£1k "upgrade") basically did not work on any level. My son's Audi Software crashes all the time, and they can not fit it. Utter nightmare, so when I heard they were struggling with software, it wasn't a difficult decision despite the benefit of VW's ground up EV platform.
"18 months time" is typical of German computer programming. In the US, Apple, Google, Amazon, Ebay, Tesla, SAS, etc. would tell their programmers "stay up all night all weekend" and have a solution that works Monday morning. It will then be tested for a week at the most with a team of 50 people and be downloadable in 8-20 days. Minor improvements will then occur over the next few weeks if small refinements are required but the main issues will resolved with the first fix. I think the Germans already have a phrase for "Heads Will Roll" if technology is not fixed in record time. Have some professional pride will ya or do you guys need a Luger pointed at your temples?
Funny how many efficient that is
Delete many
I tried to get a VW EV but changed my mind because I heard about it. Turns out my 22 ice VW is glitching too
There is no VW Software which is decent
@@juergenschoepf2885 I sold my 2019 Jetta SE with 45 thou miles and had no issues at all.
I went to a drive through burger joint. I ordered burger, fries and a coke. I paid and was told to pull in to the parking lot and my order would be brought to me. After an hour I walked inside and asked what the deal was. A worker said - no burgers delivered. They called the butcher who said no cows showed up. The farmer said grain for the cows was never delivered - skinny cows are no good. Then the manager came out and told me to 'just wait' as they'd have the whole thing sorted out by tomorrow's breakfast - they HAVE eggs. VW too?
👍
Touché’ kemosabe
02:30 - Hyundai Kona is the exact same way, beeps and beeps and beeps
Does Porsche have the same software problems being part of the VW group?
Sam you keep saying how this Legacy automobile company will go bankrupt , and "This Other automobile Legacy company" will not make it to 2035.
*"I never considered self implosion"* .
Why would someone wait around for a year and a 1/2 for a company to fix many serious problems, When they can buy a car right now, with everything working properly.
I can see Volkswagen, Being one Legacy automobile manufacturer in serious trouble.
One thing Tesla did that was very smart, Was to give Beta systems out to lot of their customers to check out , and have "them" give Tesla feedback.
VW should have picked Google Automotive like Polestar, Volvo, Renault or Cadillac did. That would have been a sweet ride.
That would be better in the short term only. The auto industry is going the way the phone industry went 20 years ago. Apple introducing the IPhone provided an ecosystem while other manufacturers provided phones. Tesla did this in the auto industry with their SW that deliver an ecosystem and not just a car.
VW wants to emulate Tesla and most chinese manufacturers are doing the same. Going with Google Automotive would become a box provider without a own ecosystem and depending largely on the Google own strategy.
I have an ID.3 and I am fairy happy with it. It is a great pleasure to drive and in the end we get used to the SW. There are features I would like that the SW does not support, but from version 3.0 they are available. VW has been (very) slowly learning but it is improving. I tried the 2022 ID.3 model with SW 3.2 and it works great (I have a 2021 model with SW 2.4 waiting for the upgrade)
@@luso57 I don't remember Nokia or Motorola successfully developing their own operating system. It is the same with the legacy automakers. They make good hardware, not software.
@@mcrkon I do not know about Motorola. But I worked at Nokia in Finland at that time. Nokia had simbian on the phones and a small team developed Maemo a SW like Android before Android existed. They released some Maemo tablets and phones, N770, N800, N810, N900. The problem was a wrong strategic decision. They did not want to kill the old Simbian and replace with Maemo, and was not the capability to develop SW. Much later, Samsung adopted Maemo and made Tizen with it.
We have one of those stone-age software BEVs from VW. The interesting thing ist that VW fan boys get really offended when you criticize it. However, VW was never able to write decent software. I know what they tried to get into the Linux kernel. 3 years to fix it looks really highly optimistic. Until the completely change operations it will never happen at lest not before the dar is ready to be scraped.
The way it feels is that many small groups wrote a piece of it and then it was cobbled together in a rush. If you want to change something you have to find where it is hidden in one of the many subsub-sub-menus and many things are simply forgotten.
Hyundai & Genesis have the best infotainment system coupled with its awesome driver assist tech.
They probably do have a better or the best infotainment system. But every Hyundai or Kia dealer I went into wanted $5,000 extra for any EV model that they could get a hold of! And because they're not made in America they don't qualify for the $7,500 tax rebate. So far we love our 23 ID 4 Pro S model! The electrician putting in my 240 power supply to my garage wants to buy one for his wife too!
I really wanted to get a Vw Golf for my company car, but the wait was too long. I accepted an Hyundai Ioniq 2021 and it has been ultra reliable. The only time the software had an issue was to do with apple carplay, and that was six months ago, with no issues since. Hyundai/Kia and Tesla are the benchmark with this tech. I wouldn’t swap my Ioniq for a Golf.
Even the most basic human factors design is appaling - take the climate screen on the ID.3: The main on/off button is "iluminated" for off and "dark" for on, but the other controls on the same screen are the otherway around. And VW are so arrogant. I took delivery of an ID.3 that had the capability for timed recharging at different locations. It worked fine, but when the car software was up-issued that feature was removed without prior notice - so I've no got a car with a lesser spec than the one I paid for. That is no way to treat a customr. My first and last VW.
Some day manufacturers will understand that what owners say they want isn’t always right. I don’t have anything against touchscreen systems, but there’s a balance that needs to be achieved. Anything that’s commonly used in the car while it’s in motion should be accessed with standard knobs and buttons. Doing so reduces taking your eyes off the road because it that feel and location of these things becomes muscle memory and you’ll have feedback to know you successfully engaged the function you were looking for. That’s good UX/UI design.
Unfortunately mechanical knobs and buttons cost more to engineer than bunging everything onto an ill-considered iPad thingy and fixing that to the dash of a car. When the thingy fails they won’t be able to mend it and a replacement will cost thousands. A car is not the same as a sofa, and controls need to appropriate for the automotive environment.
Personally, I don't mind capacitive buttons. I don't even mind how the menus work. You can get used to anything. I think they should concentrate on making the software work according to spec, and work every time. Even if it's slow, I want it reliable. And I want updates actually rolled out. They don't even have to fix everything in a single mega-update. Just roll out fixes every month or so. It would be nice just to see some progress.
The way it looks and fees it won't be easy to fix. That crap isn't designed with real modules and if you look what difficulties they have with updates most likely every hardware combination needs a specifically compiled software. To be honest, I don't expect to have a reliable and functional software in the lifetime of my car.
Buttons are better ,For example I want something I can just press on for heating and a knob to adjust the temperature, using a screen to adjust these things is dangerous when driving.
Wow, the board does testing? Great job, Can I get paid for testing same as te board's salary? This must be the most expensive testing of all time! Usually you get students to do that kind of job, mininmum salary.
In my opinion management interference in the software design is THE problem VW has. The engineers most likely know how to write good software but as one can read in many places there is a lot of infighting in CARIAD where the software is made.
The "board" could fix the problems, if ... VW was a lumber company.
In two weeks, we’ll have had our ID4 for one year.
30.000 kms of enjoyable, trouble free motoring.
Personally I like the controls. They work really well for us.
The 3.0 update was a sobering disappointment.
We Connect is gone.
The navigation is worse and sucks.
Apple Car Play saves the day with navigation.
And it is good to know that a VW manager is openly conceding that they need to radically up their software game.
Knowing what I now know and taking a years’ driving experience into account, I would still buy this vehicle.
Even with the issues and bugs, the whole driving experience is light years ahead of the 2008 Mercedes W211 we had previously.
This is a Tesla cult channel: all VW said was they were rewriting a whole new software system for the ID Platform that would transform the platform, the new updates for the Software are now available for all of the original problems, I have an ID4 and never had any problem with it, I test drove a Model Y and wasn't impressed, the software seems great, but it's a car, not a laptop, the driving experience was underwhelming, the ID4 is a better car, maybe the Tesla is a better laptop.
@@johhny711 It is a cult when someone say something negative about another carmaker failing to improve its software even thou they spent billions on the software development? Wouldn't that make you a VW cult to be so defensive?
Is this software a problem for all Infotainments on other non VW EV's? Coz I got my brand new 2023 TRoc recently and it's software is extremely frustrating and unreliable. Been obsessively checking for updates lol
Please turn your background music off it’s too intrusive
So are they going to upgrade the hardware for us that has already bought one?
Doubt VM software is as bad a LDV's.
Hired one for a week from Eurocar, nice car but the controls were terrible. Could not turn off the radio, and we had it a week!!
Maybe they were right to have fired Diest. This is a colossal management failure. It sounds like they had no architect they just put a thousand monkeys on the job and hoped that they would get something. It shouldn't be that hard to get this right. They had an example of how to do this, all they had to do was look at what Tesla did and start from there. The most important lesson from Tesla would have been to get OTAs working from day one. Once you can do that it's easier to iterate on everything else. That shouldn't have been hard to do. Every Linux distro updates itself on a frequent basis, they've been doing this for 20 years. It's a solved problem.
I dunno, imho, Diess wasn’t there to see it thru. Obviously this is not easy but it doesn’t sound that the board meets once a month to check on it. Musk would probably be hands on weekly internal releases.
Linux distributions break the compatility all the time. Try to upgrade some 3 year old system without reinstalling everything...
So, another reveal about the VW/Golf-R infotainment disaster. I had hoped the "fix" would be in by now. Seems I was wrong. I'd wanted to really like the mk8 R. I did. But currently, I need only cast a quick glance at the infotainment center on my mk6 Golf-R (and make changes on the fly). The mk8 is a cluster, if ever there was one. Maybe a repo'd '22 RS3?
So my bf bought an ID3 and I bought a MINI electric. I’m SO HAPPY I have buttons in my MINI! We drove his ID3 from Surrey to Strasbourg and back and it’s was an awesome drive. The touch buttons are bloody stupid though!
He’s since sold the car and bought a Cupra born, same car, better software. The touch buttons remain but at least it’s doesn’t have such a buggy system and the car looks better as well. I’ll stick with MINI tho thanks 😂
Maybe they could rebadge some cupra's
Add to your comments that a lottery process is now determining which ID4 owners get 3.0 software update in Europe.
That VW software reminds me a BlackBerry....Yeah some of you don't even know what BlackBerry is, exactly!, if they want to fix it, I have a suggestion, put all VW software engineers going to work on a Tesla every day.
or a Honda e, which is superior in every single way (except range, doh...)
While the haptic buttons are a problem, the bugginess is MUCH worse. Having the sound just decide not to work on a long drive - once you're already on the highway and can't stop the car to reboot is a problem. COMPLETE failure to communicate plans to US owners? Even worse.
What's the deal with VW of America not offering even the 1st upgrade? Are the upgrades really that much worse? Must be. VW will have a LOT of 3 year leases roll off and the cars returned which will be too buggy to sell.
What can be so hard? It’s just an iPad connected to a skateboard!
Exactly. Yet VW's director of software - Stuart Pidd - chose to re-invent the iPad, instead of buying one from ...
Let's invent it here if not elsewhere: ID-Gate. It will mean rushing to the EV market when you know massive numbers will fail and you hope to clean it up (cheaply) later.
sorry but is has to be VW gate or maybe CARIAD gate as Cupra, Skoda and Audi suffer from it.
"beep constantly?" Very important feature for McDonald's employees. Every machine in a McDonald's beeps constantly. Every McDonald's worker ignores the beeps. Problem solve'd.
You don’t die in a McDonalds when the fryer beeps…
When your poor and you need a $3k car, you don’t think about operating cost. Where do I get 300 mile range? I don’t have a garage.
Are such problems also faced by VW's international market ID crozz from China?
i second the notion
You think they drive their own cars on a daily basis ? Not the board, they don't drive a ID3 or ID4.
New touareg system is terrible. Exactly as you descripted. New restarts as new car I had to make many times. I say it work on random pulse bases. Real disaster.
Mirek
They haven’t got a clue on this and need to go to something standard like Google Automotive or even (whisper it) licensing Tesla software (i.e. beg Elon). They are doomed if they do this in house.
I would like a new GTI with a five speed manual trany. I think you just talked me out of going to a VW dealer.
Isn’t it amazing how hard headed big business is- one phone call and they could licence the whole Tesla FSD and whole software suite and they would revolutionise their order book. The first guys to do this will join Tesla up front and the rest could fail.
Tesla's software doesn't work on VW's hardware.
We have a Tesla too besides a Skoda Enyaq and to be honest, the software in the Mercedes EQE our neighbor owns ist better.
It's nowhere near that simple Allan, you can't just transplant another company's systems seamlessly into your own platform.
Honestly that would be a deterrent to a lot of people who don’t want to put their lives in the hands of Tesla and Elon.
@@jamespaul2587 let’s see how the future develops James- companies who find themselves so far behind I still think should be talking to Tesla and I would like to predict that a uniform universal/ global hardware software system including FSD might still be agreed between some then built into these leading EV car manufacturers and it may even become a norm- why not - most of the hard work is done
The reason imo that VW is so transparant in admitting fault, is because they have the luxury of blaming their whole software debacle on Diess. Just read the comments here. Apparently they've now hired some expert consultannts who advice to 'listen to feedback' and 'make mock-ups' so now they will magically become software champions... /s
Imo Diess faced a near impossible task with VW's corporate structure and power distribution to make the transition to EVs. You think he had a hard time dealing with this environment when trying to build a new type of vehicle? Try transitioning your software architecutre and development... One requires the breaking down of doors, the other a whole different kind of change.
This same corporate structure will now act as if 1) transitioning to EV's was the logical plan all along and 2) the shit result of their software is mainly to be blamed on some decision Diess made in a vacuum.. which imo is nothing more than a convenient lie.
My best guess, is that they will install truth-washers. People without a vision nor a plan, but who are exceptionally good at painting a pretty picture of 'lessons learned' and how tomorrow will be brighter. Whilst also making sure we don't do anything overly drastic such as upset the power structure or the way we look at software development and -integration
3 years you say ? I’ve no problem waiting for that..,something to look forward to.
That's what they said 3 years ago.
What I see is: they have ideas, how to solve the issues. But they do not know, how to solve them. Tesla is good at doing things, they have ideas how to solve, but do not know, VW is not. So 3 years may be not enough.
I'm curious whether Volkswagen consulted people who have driven electric cars for a while on what they wanted and needed in an electric car! It seems that a bunch of petrol heads got together and decided what they thought we would wish to do.
If there is one solution that works out of the box and has literally zero downsides other than increased manufacturing cost compared to a second solution that you have to get used to for a couple of months (and still remains more dangerous, even if it’s not annoying anymore) I would go with the first one
They better fix the hardware as well. If I have to drive with this slow POS infotainment system for 4 years I'm never going back to a VW group car again. I feel ripped of paying almost 50k for an electric car powered by a pi zero or something.
This video makes it sound like driving an electric car is harder than solving a Rubik's cube. Dude, just put the car in drive and push the pedal. That is literally all it takes to drive these cars.
VW should differentiate itself with buttons, switches, and knobs.
Not just for VW: Too many super complex electronic digital controls for EVERYTHING. One little circuit goes out, and a complex series of malfunctions can happen. We shouldn't rely so much on supercomputers for absolutely everything. We need stuff that normal people have at least a chance of fixing if something goes wrong.
Unbelievable! That VW's car are pieces of well, you know. Sad and tragic.
I’m happy with my ID.4. No issue with the infotainment and easy to navigate.
I see Opal are sending EV's to New Zealand
Ok, so VW has electronic problems, but since no electronic circuitry will always be 100% perfect, why should we have absolute confidence in the self driving feature, I see accidents happening.
It’ll still be WAY less than human errors.
Way less. If any.
@@L1VE3V1L It's that "If any' bit that worries me, but Hey look on the bright side "Officer, it was the car that did it , not MY fauilt" [and isn't it going to be a lawyers picnic when it comes to the insurance angle]
@@adoreslaurel the car will record the incident, the officer can see for themselves.
@@L1VE3V1L Oh good, does that mean, how bad [people dead] the accident, i am off the hook.
@@adoreslaurel depends on what the footage shows.
VW have the best software engineers working on emissions cheating software though.
Activasion.
HarmonyOS for cars is ready for sell
Ahhh - I hate that Milano just traded in her Tesla for a VW EV to protest Elon being at Twitter. Bless her pathetic heart.
Democracy is more important than a car -I think, Milano won't be the only one, driving a tesla now says a lot more about you, it says you support Trump for starters, in the USA it says you are a right-wing Republican. Musk has lost his mind.
@@johhny711 LOL - Holy Moly. Bless your heart.
Why do you care lmao
@@nothere572 Why do you care that I care? lmao
Is that you Milano?
Poor user testing……
Sold my VW 1D4 at 3 months old due to problematic software problems, paid £53,000, not worth £35,000
First vw recall 2024 hmmm
Not sure if it will be a recall or just leave current customers behind and updates go into new models only.
1st to give a thumbs up 👍
And 1st to be 1st 🤗 🥇
1st to be last! 🏆
@CastleKnight7 😂😂😂
My 1st place plus $2.20 gets me a cup of coffee ☕️
They fired the wrong guy……
Amen to that, and now he'll be working with Tesla to punish them for it. Wouldn't it be insane if VW ended up going out of business while he's crushing it at Tesla
@@stevenjones916 you’re missing the point, the board didn’t want to change plans, he was fired for arguing with them
They fired exactly the right guy. Diess is the whole reason this software issue exists in the first place.
@@nothere572 yeah but they didn’t fire him because the project is junk, they fired him because they refused to be told it needs to be fixed. For that, VW deserves everything coming in spades.
i have a VW id.3 and all of this software issues are true but the car over all is fantastic.
I hope you stop blabbing about Elon's friend Diess now. This is why VW got rid of him.
This is a Tesla cult channel: all VW said was they were rewriting a whole new software system for the ID Platform for 2024 that would transform the platform, the new updates for the Software are now available for all of the original problems, I have an ID4 and never had any problem with it, I test drove a Model Y and wasn't impressed, the software seems great, but it's a car, not a laptop, the driving experience was underwhelming, the ID4 is a better car, maybe the Tesla is a better laptop
Vw has a death wish
Watch Schäfers face: he seems to be tragic.
I tested an ID3 for a week. I liked the ride, the looks, the comfort, the ambient lights and especially the matrix lights.
Didn’t like the look of the seats and the piano 🎹 plastic and the buttons on the wheel. Didn’t know what I was pressing and the vibration feedback was lagging behind so it felt confusing.
What killed it for me was the parking in the garage of my apartment. We have a hydraulic parking place where you drive up steep incline and the whole thing can be pushed up so you can park another car. It’s quite steep so the PDCs of cars go off and you need to just push on.
However, the ID3 had some auto break system which was constantly panicking and hitting the breaks really roughly. The auto hold feature was also grabbing with the parking breaks.
So I had to go through like 5 submenus deep that weren’t intuitive at all to deactivate two options.
But when I then pushed on, you had to push the accelerator quite hard for the brake to release. So when it did, it was almost jumping back and I had to be careful not to hit the wall. It just felt like a rubberband that suddenly releases.
And when I started the car the next day, the systems were switched back on! The menu was so laggy and hidden. One was in the driving assist submenu, the other in the braking submenu.
It was also grabbing while I wanted to make a turn into the garage as it thought there wasn’t enough space to make it. The experience was shockingly bad.
Then I tested a Model 3 and I just drove around that corner, put it in reverse, mirrors adjusted down nicely and I JUST DROVE UP in a super controllable and linear way. It felt like the car perfectly understood what I‘m trying to do and just did it.
That’s the reason I have the Tesla today and I’m very happy with it.
Once you set the setting correctly they now stay in place with the latest update, Tesla now, unfortunately, come with a political badge, anyone who drives one will now be labelled a right-winger :)
@@johhny711 Yeah, it’s a shame that he lost his marbles recently. He was always nuts but it was somewhat tolerable. His former global perception also opened a lot of doors to e.g. fast track approvals.
I respect what he built with Tesla and SpaceX. Even if he lies about being a founder, the real challenge is to go into mass production and he made that happen and took a lot of risks. There is also a lot of good stuff in the pipeline.
However, I hope he finds a good CEO and people focus on the product.
@@Samsson83 First time I saw a Tesla I laughed out loud, as a car it was a heap of sh1t, with panel gaps, squeaking noises coming from the suspension rattles in the door, wind noise, etc, but the software was amazing.
But this is a car, not a laptop.
Telsa owners are members of a cult, he threatened to shut off Starlink to Ukraine after a conversation with Putin, he put Trump back on Twitter, he called for people to vote Republican, and he treats his workforce like slaves.
No doubt he's a very clever guy, but he's losing it now.
@@johhny711 Well, the cars have come a long way. Mine is from China and built quality is decent. I drove 13 BMWs, Fords and Mercedes before and nothing bothers me so far.
About the political stuff, I think he is just naive as well as a grandiose narcissist. He always seems to think he knows better than everybody else and he offers „solutions“ he THINKS are helpful but irritate people.
But he was a democrat for a long time. Over time, I think he personally got really pissed of by Biden constantly ignoring his/Teslas achievements.
@@Samsson83 The man is a genius, but when you buy a Tesla because Elon is very upfront about his politics you are branded with his politics, I mean if he manages to get Trump elected in 2024 and America loses its democracy you will have played a small part in helping that.
To me, it sounds like alot of 1st world problems. So what if iphone overhaul its system.. (it sucks anyways compared to android) just relearn it and get on with your life. We are becoming a very mentally lazy generation
VAG cars are one of the most overrated products in the world
Tesla, there is no substitute.
This is a rant. Not really helpful.