Hi stu a lot of conflicting info coming through , I fit out ally boats for a living , my advice would be keep it simple ,I woundnt complicate the system by fitting a battery just for the winch , use a 24 volt winch the cable cost will not be all that great to run to the 24volt system , the 24 volt system will be no problem charging from the alternator (just make sure it has sufficient output and in good condition) I would also run a fused circuit to the wheel house and use another fuse block for all other lights ,radios sounders etc from there . Also don’t complicate the wireing by useing relays when you don’t need to the fuse block will handle up to 30 amps per circuit , You can download a really good voltage drop app from the blueseas web site called circuit wizard it’s so easy to use just fill in the info and it calculates for you . Love your videos keep them comeing John
JuzzyQld If the switches used are rated for 25 amps and the cable is rated correctly you will not need relays .not many electric components in a boat are rated above about 18 amps ,even the 60 /70 psi water pumps will only draw 18 amps max pressure , there is no point in complicating a 12 volt system by useing relays unnecessarily,
Nice advice, John. In the wheelhouse - that's where the design app and controls from blueseas comes in. It's where the convenience of CB's and power monitoring really needs to be. ....and to Stu..I know that's a pricey option, but it's the prettiest/cleanest one. Hopefully we readers can help out with that cost, but considering all of your effort on that trawler..and the wonderful results so far... you deserve it. Make the wheelhouse cadillac, man! :). BTW, I'm not a marine engineer, but a electrical controls engineer who understands the power distribution gig...where it needs to be simple and brute force, and where it needs to be practical. John's got this down. Go with the force, Stu :)
@@rododonnell9783 Hey Rod, funny how you do that I reckon, I did exactly the same thing but to be fair, I think if they support guys we watch then they deserve my patronage
I've been in the electronics/electrical game almost 40 yrs and I can confirm it's an excellent decision to separate the AC and DC panels. Keep all the wiring in different conduits and a specific colour. Also sensible to use DC wherever possible, however shore power will always be AC and some loads, like say a water heater, will be large enough to demand AC. Can I strongly recommend using an Isolation Transformer for the AC. These are highly desirable on all metal boats.
On that .. an inverter with it's switching would already I think be isolated from DC well enough but on the reverse way as you raise a valid point it may perhaps be better off with a 25a smart charger from the AC back to the DC and a double throw switch to use the charger OR the inverter (water vs shore). If you're using more than 25a 100%dc when on shore power you have some issues you need to look into. What's your thoughts on that Phillip?
@@NullaNulla Agree with Vancouver Jet, none of the inverters I'm aware of offer galvanic isolation between the AC and DC sides. There are three broad approaches I would consider. One is to go full DC boat for all loads, and use the shore power AC to drive a battery charger only. You may be able to find a charger that offers marine spec isolation, but crucially if it ever fails someone would have to be sure to replace like with like. I would still use a separate isolation transformer even in this scenario. The other is to go the invertor/charger route like a Victon Multiplus. Now you have to use a transformer for isolation. This is a nice smart setup, but the subtle downside of these devices is that on the DC side there is only one connection to the batteries and it's impossible to functionally split the charging and load function. This can be a showstopper when using Lithiums and BMS protection relays. The third option I went with is to keep the AC and DC systems, AND the charging/load circuits all totally separate. The shore power arrives via an Isolation Transformer and powers some 'shore power only' loads like Air Con or Water Heating and a Battery Charging device that lands on the Charge Bus. Then on the Load Bus I have a separate inverter for AC loads that I want to use at all times, like an Induction cooker, or my large AC crash pump. This approach is a little more expensive, but much easier to accommodate all the electrical design goals.
@@Islandwaterjet what's the issue with sharing only the neutral though if there is only one tie point still to the hull? I would have thought it would be how you use the other (pos/active) and link it that counts.
@@NullaNulla Isolation Transformers perform three distinct roles that depend on the total separation of the source and load sides. The first function is the obvious one, galvanic isolation of the ground loop to shore in order to prevent electrolysis and stray currents that can kill swimmers. The second benefit is that they provide inherent shore power reverse polarity protection. If for any reason the live and neutral are swapped it just doesn't matter. This is why you don't want to share the shore neutral with the hull ... it could become live! The third more subtle reason is the isolation transformer load side neutral is bonded to the metal hull. This provides a rock solid earth path for any AC circuits and ensures reliable operation of the RCD's or Earth Leakage protection devices. It's my view that Isolation transformers should be mandatory on all metal boats, for the first reason alone. But on all other types GRP or Wood, the second and third reasons also justify them.
@@philipwilkie3239 if the shore goes only to a smart charger than you have no risk of it being an issue and simplifying a lot of things. Focus on dc and then only invert things like the toaster and microwave. There are 12v dc tvs etc and even fridges of reasonable size then cook with lpg.
By the way, your almost to 100k which is amazing. I’ve only been on board for a couple years by my I remember when you were at 35-40,000 subs and all your hardwork is paying off. Thank you for all the work you put it to provide content. I know that you could have a lot of these projects done fast if you didn’t have to narrate or explain each step. And I can tell you each of us watching appreciate the time you put in
First thumbs up, 6th battery for the barrel winch yes... 900kw of solar??? Nagh mate, go 12-1500 if possible and take all the strain offa that alt. Certainly done ya home work on the lightening earth... straight onto that Central "Single" earth. So you're going all LED lighting obviously with all that existing wiring.
Some good ideas there :) and yeah I reckon LED is 100% the way to go with most things now especially lighting to save on wiring and consumption :) That lightning earth .... I'd be curious to see how that would really go if you copped a hit to the exhaust/mast/antenna array/wherever. I get the feeling it's to disippate the power via the water covered hull area but if it cops something not directly tethered to the hull it will still do some damage I reckon.
Done a fair bit of boat repair and worked as a residential elechicken for a few years- your plan sounds fairly solid and I don't see any glaring issues other than making sure that your 24 and 12 volt systems are properly, and absolutely, isolated. Being the boat's in salt water, I'd also have to say grounding the hull is a wise decision. (Also, as janky as it sounds, there's a reason we electricians don't use crimps- they tend to loosen over time with thermal expansion- we either use screw-clamps, or just wire-nut the shit out of everything. Wire-nuts handle elastic deformation better than crimps over time.. plus, they're easy AF to modify/expand later on) Edit: and they do have dielectric-grease filled nuts that are suitable for marine environments.
Well, of COURSE you'd use a flashlight instead of a torch! Who wants the boat to catch fire from waving a TORCH around inside the cabin, not to mention the SMOKE .. ? ;) I favor the full floating ground, but your existing service wiring ... which you want to keep ... will probably defeat that. So put lots of zincs on the hull.
Why not add a 24v anchor winch, twice the voltage will half the current and thus the cable size. Probably better and cheaper than adding another battery and charging circuit.
@@rododonnell9783 makes sense only thoughts are around the design using 24v for start up only. Generally want them isolated from heavy draw, but I guess if the device favours charging start ups first should not be an issue other than extra wear on batteries.
I have to admit, as a Canadian, I have a lot of respect for Australian manufacturing. You crazy Aussies come up with the coolest stuff and don't give a rats if other countries think you're nuts for doing it! Gotta haul a bunch of crap out of the Outback? Just put a bunch of trailers together on a rig and call it a train. Muscle cars can't carry enough? Put a truck box on it and call it a ute. Not getting diabetes fast enough? Put chocolate and more chocolate together and call it a TimTam. Respect.
@@rooster8039 We do! Bundaberg ginger beer is decidedly harder to find though. 🙁 I quite enjoyed it when I was there. But at least that shoe polish you call vegemite isn't here either. 😋
@@rooster8039 Tim Tam slam: bite off two ends and suck up hot chocolate? I haven't had the pleasure. I didn't know they made rum. That's something I think is strange about Australia: there's always a short-hand, slang, abbreviation, or acronym for everything out there. You even abbreviate abbreviations! Like really, how hard is it to say BBQ, but no, you have to shorten it to barbie! Lol! 😋
You will putting a great deal of battery weight on those three cantilevered tubes mounted to that aft bulkhead, recommend you think about bracing that shelf from below. The braces could go diagonally to the base of the bulkhead or down to the nearest structural hull member.
Agree with all your thoughts, but perhaps consider the consequence of the Redarc unit as a single point of failure, i.e. what would you do if the Redarc failed in service? You would lose all 12V power to the instruments. Perhaps install a bypass switch that disconnects the 12V output of the Redarc and connects the 12V loads back to one of your batteries. You would need a SPDT switch rated to the full current of your 12V DC loads (60A?), or maybe a 60A SPDT relay energised from the Redarc 12V output so that no Redarc output reinstates the 12V feed from the battery. A switch would be my preference as the relay coil would become a constant drain (minimal), but 60A switches are much more expensive than 60A relays! Bare in mind that either a switch or relay in the line would also become a single point of failure, so use good quality components.
Maybe give some thought to running your house circuit at 24v instead of the 12v. Rather than your 3 x 12v house batts in parallel, look at 4 x 6v in series. 6V deep cycle batts are easily available, think golf cart. Advantages are the series battery bank seems to treat the batteries a bit kinder than a large parallel bank. . one battery getting lazy in a 3 x parallel bank will really put the hurt on the other 2. Another advantage is reduced conductor size. Double voltage means half the current for a given wattage load. Smaller fuses and less heavy-duty fuse holders also. Things like an inverter are also more efficient at the higher voltage, and you get that same 50% amperage benefit. Do the maths on how many amps a 2000w inverter pulls on the DC side at 12v!! It's an eye opener. Depending on the solar panels, there can be an advantage to running those at the higher voltage too. Most things you will want to run are available in either 24v, or auto select 12/24. Think heavy vehicle/truck/earthmoving market for things like radios and other accessories. Most marine accessories are also available in 24v. Things like lighting can easily be run in 12v series pairs if there isn't a 24v option for the fixture you want to use. I'm seeing more and more move to 24v as the standard DC voltage on boats. . it seems new builds are only using 12v for the legacy or super-specialist stuff that is absolutely unavailable in 24v, and even then, is usually just a 24-12 reducer running the 12v bus.
Oooo. RedArc. Le fanci. Keep in mind Stu, chargers for lithium batteries such as tool batteries laptops etc, are extremely finicky on the type of power the receive. Altered sine wave generally won’t work. You need pure sine inverters. Also you need an emergency generator for the beer fridge. Maybe two.
I am going to base the following on "shit happens" and I know it happens to you as I have watched your videos :) Run a charging line up to the winch battery through an isolator. Since the alternator is IT for power, put a volts gauge and a mechanical ammeter for it in the engine bay - when things go south this is where you'll be, anyway. A set of amp and volt gauges for engine 24v, house 12v, and the winch systems just for monitoring so you can spot trends like a high load, batteries not taking a charge, or a failing alternator/starter/motor. They will also help keep you within your energy/wiring 'budget' and you'll know if that new coffee maker or seawater-to-beer converter is drawing too many electrons. Have you made allowances for engine room and battery ventilation (including winch)? Not just for vapor off gassing but in case billowing clouds of noxious smoke from fried wiring or oil hitting a hot engine. Install a 'fancy gizmo' bypass so you can easily reroute power for charging if needed. You might have left your tools or something at home when things go wrong (is usually the case) and you won't have to bodge something up. Think Star Trek, man! Do you want to have to wait for hours while Scotty or Geordie is rerouting the blown EPS conduit when you could just go flip a switch or two and get back to base before all the crab legs are gone?! On the other hand, you'll want some strategically placed kill switches around in case of Romulan pirates or when you have a hot date aboard {CLICK}- "Oh dear, we'll have to sleep aboard until someone finds us. My cabin is right this way...".
Ventilation in the engine bay is definitely something I'm going to look into. There is currently a couple of pipes to the top of the wheel house about 4 inch in diameter but I might also look into adding something fan forced.
Gold Whisperer Great idea. Yes , many hard , dedicated hours putting aside the myriad of other activities, most that are quite boring , to watch Dangar Stu make his three legged way through this project tripping over shadows , almost kicking himself a few dozen times , measuring once and cutting thrice and all the other things that I can’t do or don’t have the balls to attempt !! Lol Surely we will be rewarded with the honour to contribute a sausage and a loaf of bread to celebrate the launch !! What a Stella idea !!
To bad Stu is on the other side of the planet from me! I would love to do the BBQ for the launch! It would be an expensive BBQ to attend all the way from Texas, much less ship my smoker there to do the food. LOL Though I would love the chance to introduce ya'll to some true Texas BBQ. (Brisket and Burnt end Beans both with a tomato based sauce) Along with some Carolina style pulled pork and ribs (Vinegar and mustard based tangy sauce) Hell for the launch I might even throw on some smoked jalapeno's stuffed with cheese and wrapped in bacon. All the while I would love to get a chance to learn local dishes that fit into what you consider BBQ. :)
Ken Cramer Stop making excuses. But the smoker on a boat over here and book the flights. Qantas fly direct from Sydney to Dallas my friend. I can pick you up at the airport 25 mins away and drive you up the black snake ( the express way north) to the Brooklyn Bridge ( yep, the REAL one ) and we can drive along the water until we see a clapped out landie and a filthy dirty bloke with a grinder in his hand near a green tub with holes in it No worries maaan. Just get here. I will bring six litres of dead horse for the snags .
I would buy another REDARC and keep it in your spare parts bin on board. With everything channeled through that one controller. A spare would be priceless if you are out several hours and it fails.
He just needs a switched bypass directly from the alternator. And a spare set of Andersons on the battery bank to plug the solar in via a cheap separate solar mppt reg. A mppt will self regulate even if the alternator is pumping in juice. These charge controllers are pretty well sealed, they should generate enough internal heat daily with the solar input to take care of any condensation. Instructions say you can mount them in engine bays on 4x4's, although most I've seen don't! I'd have my redundancy setup including battery bank in the wheel house & able to be switched from that position. Million different ways to do this, you'll need one or two of those Cooper's 6packs to nut this out.
@@andrewiannello6548 A set of jumper leads from crank to house batteries works also. Redarc don't warranty their DCDC chargers for under bonnet fitment although they are ok for anything forward of the radiator from what I have read
Enjoy yosur trip. wrt electricals, - keep it simple. I'd dump the 12V, run everything from 24V. have distribution fuses in cabin. relying on a single bit of electronics, when it goes wrong, and it will, you'll be stuffed. Best wishe
Stuart, a little off the subject, just got two of your Dangar Marine tee shirts last week. Great quality, a little stretchy so they're very comfortable (I need stretchy). Wore one last weekend to work on the boats...well worth the money. No one at the marina asked about Dangar Marine...am I the only subscriber in Chicago?
Nice Video... You might want to ask them about the OPERATING TEMP for your unit... I don't think it will last long in the engine bay, but could be wrong.... You may want to mount in the wheel house instead. Cheers and thanks for the video!!
It can operate at up to 80C (175F) and has an over temp warning that shows in the wheelhouse. They also state that it should be mounted as close to the batteries as possible.
Dangar Marine You would know better than I by a long shot if the engine bay on its worst day exceeds that... just thought I would mention it... 175 is pretty darn hot, so I guessing you are good then?? Cheers and keep up the great vids!
As you said...try to keep as much of your equipment in the 12VDC range where possible...I don't know what is available there but just check out a truck stop...they are usually packed with 12V stuff! I have many 12VDC devices that work as good or better than AC...also use 12VDC lighting with LED strings & lamps...though you should get the IP65/IP66 rated for the marine setting. As far as other voltages you can get buck/boost converters that can supply any level you need...and for connections you can use gel-filled connectors that are heat-shrinked with marine glue. The AC side (separated is a great idea) is a bit easier for the wiring as it goes farther with smaller gauge cabling...though I suggest waterproof cabinetry if there is danger of water spraying on it. If you were to send me a list of everything you need to power...and the distances involved...I could get a plan up to help you out...just give me a hollar if you need to :)
@@paulg9314 Still need disconnects so you can work on the system with doing collateral damage.... Also, if you have a problem, you need to be able to bulk turn things off.
Yes I have done two isolation switches one for the motor and one for accessories in My 6.5 mtr boat , all tinned copper wires which were solder ironed and then waterproof heat shrank , never a problem Cheers Benny
Solid plan Stu! :) Thoughts... *USB Power* -- You're right about the 12 vdc to USB stuff. Readily available. I'd recommend putting in the 12-volt plugs that look like the cigar lighters in your car. If we get a USB D around the bend, you can bet Amazon will be flooded with USB D chargers to plug into cigarette lighter plugs. You can pop onto Amazon right now and pick from a wide variety of USB A and USB C chargers meant to pop into that plug in the dashboard and they're cheap. Everything from laptops to camera gear and more can be powered off USB these days. *AC Power* -- Have a hard think about the rest of the AC loads. You may be able to nix the whole system. Hair Dryer? Microwave? Blender? Power Tools? Well, you can buy 12 vdc battery chargers for most brands of battery powered power tools. Can you live comfortably without some of those galley conveniences? Shore power charging could be a simple and cheap portable unit like the kind used to charge a car from the wall. No need for an isolation transformer or galvanic isolator anymore either. (I have strong opinions about which of those two I'd fit if I needed them though.) You could use one of the small, inexpensive, portable inverters that you can plug into one of your 12-volt accessory plugs if you need some occasional AC power. It'd save you a heap of money and hassle if you decide you can be comfortable and meet your needs without the fixed AC system. *Winch* -- If you can find a way to get your hands on suitable cables for the winch, you'll be far happier in the long run if you don't resort to the workaround you talked about. That said, your plan will work. My experience with the approach is that it has more points of failure, maintenance, and ends up being more expensive than it is worth, but if you're on a tight budget and scraping together the bits and bobs you need, the remote battery system will get you going. *Hydraulics* -- While we're talking about scrounging parts, if you can piece it together on your budget, putting a hydraulic pump on the engine and then hydraulic winches on the anchor windlass and the crane would solve the battery issue and more. That's how the smaller commercial fishing boats are set up around these parts (larger ones having dedicated hydraulic power plants.) I'm betting an industrious guy like you could adapt a hydraulic pot hauler / trap puller to the crane without too much trouble. You might strike gold at a marine salvage. That's about all that popped into my head. Solid plan. Good work Stu. :)
Thanks for the input Seth. I think I will look into what a hydraulic pump for the GM would cost. Could be super handy and solve a lot of power problems too.
If you don’t have the windlass motor already, hydraulics there might save a lot of issues. Hydraulics might also provide other crane uses depending on what you want to do with the boat.
If you run your winches off the 24v side the higher voltage will reduce your current requirements and maybe get rid of that extra battery, assuming you haven't already got the winch motors, I know the cabling is going to be expensive either way but at the higher voltage slightly smaller gauge it might come cheaper than the extra battery, charging unit and less things to ultimately fail also... Edit:.Ah I see a lot of people have suggested this 24v winches, its worth looking into. Also good move on trying to stick with DC, if you need voltages other than 12/24v just try find appropriate DC:DC converters (converters not transformers :-) )
Your plan for your power needs seems to be fine and quite simple. This will be a blessing because as of a boat this size, simple is best. I've built a few boats myself and I found an old trick that works a treat when planning the electrical and plumbing. Start off the same way, draw a layout and also do a side profile of your boat and be as accurate as you can with the dimensions. Then add a layer of clear plastic (map talc) over the top and using coloured felt tip pens, trace out your 12v system. Add another layer and do your 24v system (If you have spent anytime in the army and made plans on maps, you'll understand this better). Use a different pen for each system and when you are done, it allows for accurate measuring of conduits and assists in calculating bends, fittings, saddles and all the extras. It basically unclutters the main diagram and gives you a simple overview on what you need and where you can put it. This may work, it may not, its free info. Keep up the good work!
I definitely want to draw up some scale plans of the boat. As you say, having the system diagram is one thing but having the exact distances is important for buying wire and knowing the expected voltage drop along the way.
Hi Stu, just a thought. Winch motor for anchor, hydraulic instead of electric? Emergency Lighting around the distribution panels, so if mains fuses go, you still have light to fix it, not trying to find a torch/Flashlight?
I build campervans and 100% agree that dc appliances are the go . Sure mains power gear is cheaper and more variety but if your inverter blows then you have nothing . With dc all you need is batteries and if your batteries die then its easy enough to get another and you still have appliances working . And if you can afford it go lithium batteries in the long term they are cheaper then lead acid .
I do like the simplicity of 12V, and, as you say, drop in a spare 12V battery and you are back in business, even if it is just for a while without charging.
How does a company such as Redarc stay in business in these times by actually using such an outdated policy of listening to and advising customers with their individual problems, got me beat?
Just a thought, a small backup diesel generator could be a lifesaver and get the main engine running if something catastrophic occurred. It could also ensure your separate anchor motor battery or batteries are charged. Yes it would be expensive but out on open waters you want to make sure you know you can start your main engine. Have a look into it and a think about it Stu.
I would definitely want a back up generator all the time if going offshore. Would a petrol generator not be sufficient? Or is the a concern with fuel storage?
@@landlifem5872 just thinking one type of fuel is enough to carry on board, except maybe LPG operation as I am assuming there will be gas on board for cooking.
@@matthewmoses4222 Yeah that's cool, I could see a petrol generator could give trouble with condensation in the fuel if it's not used regularly, and any vapours from the fuel as we all know in a confined space .. but the advantages of course are the purchase price and ease of starting.
sounds like you've got a solid plan two suggestions 1: a battery monitor 2: check out pacific yacht systems on youtube great wealth of knowledge pertaining to boat electrical systems and yes they do highly recommend firefly batteries and they are not wrong
USB-C on a Macbook is what's called Power Delivery (PD), and is 19v-20v. Lenovo makes a 12v DC 65w USB-C charger that has PD and should charge your Macbook. If you have a Macbook Pro the charger that came with it is 85w, so the 65w charger will take a little longer. The Lenovo part number is 40AK0065WW. I'm using one to charge a Macbook Pro and a Lenovo Thinkpad for our portable ham radio activity. It's also great for charging USB-C phones.
G'Day Stu...Nice plan for the charge side,,be looking at a redundancy circuit,,just in case the pretty system failed,,, as for high current draws,,relays with a diode between pos and neg to take shock shunt out, or use both poles to reduce burn on contacts,,that is pos and neg switched through relay at the same time,,,,or even use 2 terminals for each side of the component,,so as not one set of relay contacts take all the shock load,, and finally buz bars,,hmmm cable run through boat and tap of to relays and use control circuit to turn on and off,,short runs of high current supply not all going through switch,,which won't last long with high current load going through them, not sure how much of this cobbidgook you under stand,, so Good luck Pal.. Water and electricity,,,Hmmmmmmm
I love those Lonestar drum winches. I tried one that was crap, should have bit the bullet and bought a Lonestar! They sponsored my favorite ''Wicked Tuna'' TV show guy, Dave Marciono. In the USA its thru Hammer Marine in Texas. I use their chain guard. Not many Americans use drum winches.......But you all are way more inventive then American boat owners (fishermen)
I'd look at single point of failure components that can leave you in trouble. Namely the REDARC charger (since everything is going through it) and anchor winch battery. Can a bypass circuit with a heavy duty switch be used to bypass the REDARC? Does the anchor winch have a manual override?
Hey mate given that you are going to use the Redarc unit as a central distribution point for power it is also a central failure point. I would carry a spare Redarc unit just in case you have a surge that fries it.
If you have any blank slots left in the fuse block, use them to hold emergency fuses for the critical components. (radio, bilge pump etc) It can save you from having to hunt down your spares in an emergency...
Hey Stu: you might find some value in the Lithium battery set up Jono has: ua-cam.com/video/JW-v8PNx2C4/v-deo.html. He has other clips that explain why he went Lithium and also on his charging set up. Jono lives on a Long Boat in the UK.
There's an old saying "Kiss. Keep It Simple Stupid" There are times you'll need to sort the electrics under pressure, or perhaps someone unfamiliar will need to access the electrics. As others have said, don't over complicate it.
Why not ditch 12 volt totally and run 24v throughout, all the same stuff is available and you'll suffer less voltage drop and/or run lighter gauge cable.
G'day Stu, I noticed in your mud map you don't have a fuse (Midi fuse) at the 24V batteries for the Redarc feed, I know you would have most likely picked that up as you were doing the job, but that stood out at me. Now remember nothing but nothing should leave the pos terminal of a battery without cable protection as close as possible to the battery (the only exception is the starter cable), and in the form of a fuse or circuit breaker. :-D
Hey mate. Yep, I didn't draw all the fuses (or battery switches). I'll do a proper circuit diagram and share it now I've absorbed all the great advice in these comments.
I would discard 99% of these suggestions, and seek the advice of a qualified marine electrician, about the only thing that made any sense to me was the part about using a fuse,
Hi Stu, firstly check if the DC converter's solar input has MPPT (maximum power point tracking). If not I would suggesting getting a seperate MPPT to sit between your panels and the DC converter. Just make sure the output voltage is suitable. Secondly I would recommend you use 24vdc around the boat not 12. Almost everything now allows for both. And if there is something particular that really needs 12vdc you are better putting in a small 24/12 DC converter near the appliance. This will save you a bunch of cable and is also kinder to your batteries. With regards to your winch having the batteries at the front is a good idea. However I would use a 24 or 48v winch and run a small set of trickle charging cables from the engine room as apposed to putting in a seperate PV system. Finally earthing with at a single point is a good idea. Just make sure you don't oversize any fuses so if you do short to the boat you blow the fuse. 240vac power is only an issue if you are going to use shore power. In which case you need a galvanic isolator. I would avoid using shore power of at all possible. I'm a power/renewable energy engineer and happy to help with any questions.
Thanks David, I appreciate all your advice. I've bought some cheap CAD software for circuit design and I'm drawing up some more detailed plans now. I can really see the advantages to a pure 24V install, but I think for now I am going to have a dual 12/24V setup and see how it goes. Unfortunately I have too much invested in the 12V side to abandon it now, but it is good to know for the next (likely bigger) boat. :) Also, I'm really thinking of avoiding 240V almost completely. I'm now thinking of splitting my two boards as 12 and 24 rather than DC and AC.
@@DangarMarine you're welcome Stu. If you are reusing all the 12vdc wiring in the boat that makes sense. I agree avoid AC unless you definately need it. You can always get an elcheapo 12-24Vdc/240vac converter onboard and use it as you need.
I'm old been around the block always skeptical that little redarc box seems to do a lot to be long run reliable I would have plan B as an option you know 30 50 miles out there Take care be safe
Just quickly, I would start with the positive bus and fuses (self resetting circuit breakers? about $6 each plus covers at RV shops) up the top and the negative bus at the bottom so your wiring diagrams will follow world standards, ie all the negatives should be connected together as a bottom line on the schematics and all the control and working equipment trickle down from the top positives (in your case two) it makes troubleshooting easy and always put relay and contactor coils as the last items before the negative line, never put a switch or contact after a control device also the boat's hull should be bonded to the negative line as well just as in a car. PS I'm only 11 minutes in.
I've got a similar Redarc DC-DC charger on the 4WD. It manages the charge to the house battery, isolates the house and crank batteries, and regulates raw solar into the charging system. After 5 years it's never let me down. Great brand. Would buy again in a heartbeat.
Haha, I thought the main reason for the loss of boats was people forgetting they have a boat on a mooring for a couple of years. I've also thought about placing a battery next to the anchor winch but I'm still not convinced. The added outlay for a (6th!!) battery compared to the price of thick copper per metre still sways me to the opinion that the anchor winch is better driven direct from the main battery bank with heavy gauge cables. As you say, it's not a giant boat so the run is only ~15' and spending a little extra on the wire is like buying 10 batteries if you think about how long the copper will last. Is the redundancy factor your concern? Thank you for the "bonus" video :)
Make sure you have a master disconnect that's easily accessible. It should be on that main board, possibly before the large fuses. And several other 'master branch' disconnects on the main board so you can work on branch circuits without having to power down the whole boat. I don't think that fuse box has enough single fuse capacity (great for engine room accessories however) for your branch to the wheelhouse breaker panel. I would suggest using another large fuse (30amp?) plus a disconnect or maybe just a large circuit breaker that can also be the disconnect. Same goes for the feed to both the deck crane & windless. I know they have large surface mount 12v circuit breakers for automotive, must also exist in marine versions (suitably more expensive of course...). Finally, consider mounting all the wiring in (finger) raceways, makes everything much, much neater and easier to repair/upgrade and they are cheap. Also, invest in a label printer so you can label everything including the wires.
Why not just put a separate small charger for the winch battery powered from the engine alternator? You can go from 24v to 12v with the charger and you will never have to worry about being stuck on anchor because if you are out all it will take is a running motor to lift the anchor.
@@DangarMarine That is not a bad idea, those winches can have a very high amperage draw and a single battery can put you in a bad spot. I have found a decent priced cable that you can use. I have used this cable in several applications and recommend it in spots where line lose and overheating are an issue. Another nice thing about this cable is it is actually the size it claims to be, many sellers lie about sizes. Also this cable is very flexible. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016HFDDLO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Make sure that electronic box of tricks can handle the currents you are going to require. It looks a bit small to me. What about heating and air conditioning? Running that off a separate AC generator? Otherwise its looking good.
Looking at my comments again I realize you need to keep things compact and cabling short so arranging the hardware your way is very important, I still advise the drawings be set out as in a page of a book, left to right and top to bottom, instrument schematics on separate pages (you might get them supplied with new gear anyway). Keep up the good work!
Just my two cents here, but I'd definitely not ground both the AC and DC to the boat at the same time, you would have the potential to have AC noise introduced into your 12 volt systems. Also, I'd would get some advice about grounding anything to the hull, remember using the 12 volt system to remove rust? Well you will have just set up half of the circuit, all you would need is something that was leaking voltage into the water, and your going to see a problem. I could be wrong on all of this, since I'm just an electronic/computer guy, and not a boat guy like you are.
@@TheDgdimick he was talking about single strap to prevent electrolysis but still have a point to earth do the boat wouldn't be a floating isolated voltage potential in a storm.
@@lathselman9772 I think Stu has a big 24V to 240V invertor that came with the boat but I reckon your correct about going 12 volt, everything is available in 12 volt now and just a good if not better than the 240V versions.
Awesome videos! When you'r working out your power, have you thought about some sort of underwater lighting and such to assist in salvage? Maybe a couple places for moveable spotlights or worklights on deck? Just a few thoughts.
Yes, I have been talking to Aqualuma about underwater lighting. I think it would be great for fishing and for returning to the boat from a night dive too.
I bought a new inverter for our RV last year and runs super quite. It has a battery switch to switch on to run off my 2 in series marine quality 12v batteries which in series is 24v. We mainly use AC hookup power which for a boat would be shore power off the marina docks where available. With the inverter a trickle charge keeps the 12v batteries charged. With your setup with solar where shore power not available the cells will trickle charge your batteries especially with a good charging weather day. With charging a boat fire is a major concern so a fire retardant auto system would be worth looking into someday like aircraft have. They remove the oxygen in confined spaces which are needed for a fire to spread. Just sharing my rambling thoughts
leith bodin I completely agree with using LED for all of your lighting. Huge power usage savings, the life of the lights is incredibly longer and they are easy to work with.
Master Disconnect Switches for everything or Murphy will BITE you! Your off to a great start. Use Blue Seas equipment and their design software should help. Have Fun!
Redundancy is the key to safety, not just convenience, so that is good you are keeping all those power systems (petrol generator, solar, alternator off engine). Just some thoughts and questions; 1/ With the macbook, consider water proofing - immerse it in epoxy, let it seep into everything, close the lid and let it set. Reduces power consumption substantially too. (to zero) :) 2/ Higher volts means lower current which means lighter gauge wiring...you may want to look at routing 24V rather than 12V? (That is what I am doing in my camper), but then again, I have the 24V appliances which tend to get a little more expensive than their 12V counterparts - not always, but often. 3/ I would've thought DC could pose a problem to a boat and AC would be the less problematic choice since it cannot cause galvanic corrosion AFAIK. Maybe you can find someone that knows to talk about that? (or even a learned commenter) Any info from you is always welcome and trusted, so thanks for more info yet again!
Considering how the Redarc is the heart of the power input and routing to loads, a significant infarction in it could leave you powerless (or at least non-rechargeable) . So would it be a good idea to have either a spare Redarc on board, or to have a simple/rugged switch-mode charger (normally disconnected from the system) also on the E-board to provide 30-50 charging amps to the batteries? Then you could unplug the dead Redarc, switch in the backup charger and head toward home or a nearby port for repair. Additionally, gas discharge tubes or Varistor (MOV) networks on the input lines to the Redarc and solar charger, to shunt spikes to ground and clamp input voltage-level peaks, might add some peace of mind when going the kilometers or enduring storms. And a spare alternator would be cheap insurance as well. As a guess, it would seem that suppliers of oil-platform electronics might have some of those contingencies covered already in system, spike-suppression filters or conditioners. Lightning is beautiful...until it induces transient currents in your hull. Simple, 12/24Vdc, 2kA, surge & noise filter www.seachoice.com/pdf/19931_MARINE%20SURGE%20SUPPRESION_B.pdf Good opening article (docking/120V hook-up focus in foreign ports): SURGE PROTECTION DEVICES & YOUR BOAT partsandpower.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/surge-protection-devices-your-boat/
Totally enjoy following your work. I'll never own a boat larger than a Kayak but will know how to restore one thanks to you. From my experience as an electrical technician & Ham Radio Operator I have two tips for you to consider... Avoid any CRIMP CONNECTIONS & buy a second DC to DC charger as a spare. Crimp connections fail. Not maybe, they WILL fail. Crimp connectors also collect moisture, they oxidize & corrode & add resistance to your DC circuit. Use solder connections instead, and completely heat shrink them. And since that DC to DC charger is your electrical system hub, if it fails, you're SCREWED. It's simply smart insurance to have a spare hermetically sealed & stowed away. May you never ever need it, but if you do it's an easy exact replacement & you'll get back to port with no worries. GREAT SERIES, look forward to more. OH! BTW, get a Ham Radio License! I've personally helped rescue a mariner adrift off of Nova Scotia in a gale via 20 meters ham radio. You sail over the horizon from land you need HF radio. When all else fails, Ham Radio WORKS!
Hi Stu, it was pleasure talking to you at Sanctuary Cove International Boat Show. I would suggest adding additional 24V charger to charge only starting batteries (+ anchor winch battery) and leave BCDC1250D to change house batteries. Also, battery monitor (something like Victron Battery Monitor BMV-702) would be nice to have at wheel house. Thank you for great videos!
Hey Yury, nice to meet you too. :) Yes, I'm going to dedicate a third of the solar cells to charging the starter batteries and run the winch off those. Have a battery monitor in the pipeline!
I would solder every connection I could, mechanically crimp the big connections at the battery. Definitely separating the different currents on different boards is great. Conduit is also the best way. As for the wiring of the motor, I suggest 7 way trailer wire for commercial vehicles. They normally come with 2-10 gauge wires, and 5-12 gauge wires. Should be more than enough for that old Detroit. P.S. I love old Detroit diesels! The old screaming Jimmy's we call'em in the U.S.. Hopefully you slap a new coat of paint on the jewel, and put it in memory of the Green Machine. R.I.P. Love the videos. Keep up the hard work, here comes some more long thought processes. Wiring is always "fun"!
NOW - you're in my wheelhouse!! Looking over the comments (I didn't wanna sound like a broken record), there are a few really great tips. I'd like to comment on a few things: I believe there are (2) reasons to fuse. 1) To protect the boat from electrical fire (fuse at the battery) 2) to protect a specific device from shorts (or other issues) - fuse at the device (or fuse block). As for the REDARC products, I'm unfamiliar but it looks like the perfect fit for your project. I can't tell the gauge of wire, but to me, it seems a little light. When doing 12v projects here at our shop, after calculating current draw, we use 8GA, 4GA, sometime 1/0GA wire depending on the load. The wire coming out of the REDARC seems to be 12GA at the most. I'll jump on their site to get the skinny on it's spec's. As for the others' comments: Go LED lighting when possible (even in gauges if available)and I'd do a 24v winch for the anchor. Someone commented that you'd lose 12v power if the REDARC would die. I don't believe that would be the case since the battery bank and the devices are on the other side of the REDARC. You would lose the ability to CHARGE the 12v system, but not lose power completely. Eventually, yes. Not sure of your timeline on the electrical system, but I would LOVE to send a care package of goodies your way. I have no idea how long something from the US would get to you, but I'd love to help. Let me know.
Thanks Scott, appreciate the info. You are right in that I would only lose the ability to charge, the power would still work until the batteries went flat. I will definitely look into replacing all the existing incandescent lighting with LED, definitely a great way to save power. I've got about four weeks to finish the electrics so send me an email to dangarstu@gmail.com if you have something you'd like to send. Any help is always greatly appreciated! :)
You could set up shore/generator battery charging on a transfer switch. Victron makes highly featured inverter/chargers (multiplus). It will combine power sources (battery, generator) for higher AC output. Their battery monitor is nice too, BMV-712, gives remaining battery as a percentage, and time to depletion. Maybe add another dc-dc charger for the anchor winch?
I've currently got an inverter that came with the boat, but those Victron inverter charger does look very cool, I'll have to look into them. Could be worth the investment.
On battery placement: putting the batts in a hot engine room is not the best choice when you seem to have a lazarette on the other side of the bulkhead. Hot batteries charge slower, apart from several other considerations. Also, ABYC standards...purely advisory but generally well considered by genuine experts...require battery disconnect switches to be located outside engine rooms, so they too could go the other side of that bulkhead. Finally, that REDARC device (which sounds excellent btw) will de-rate its output at higher temps if it's like every other charger....so again, consider putting that great mounting board on the lazarette side of the bulkhead. You didn't mention an inverter....are you planning for one? Really handy when you have small or short duration 240v needs. Allows you to avoid starting that petrol gennie. Maybe plan for one in your design even if you don't put it in straight away. Finally from me: windlass battery. Understand your logic for putting in bow but actually on a vessel your length, I wouldn't worry about a heavy cable run for that distance. But if you stay with the fwd battery idea, bear in mind that a bow battery is going to be subject to a fair amount of pounding at times. A good choice because of its more robust construction/vibration resistance AND because it's particularly good at tolerating high current discharges, is the Optima spiral wound blue top AGM 34M. Note don't be talked into the hybrid/dual purpose type D34M, which are more readily available...it's a poor compromise for your windlass application. Love your work. Looked for you at boat show without success...would have liked to shake your hand.
the Redarc...is it capable (as you are mentioning) to charge both a 24V and a 12V battery bank? I cannot find those specs! I think you will have at least an 80Amps alternator on your machine and the Redarc cannot handle that. So, just charge the 24V bank directly with the alternator and charge the 12V bank with the Redarc dc-dc dohikkie Use the 24V bank as input for the Redarc.
Another great vid, Stu. My 0.02 was going to be keep the circuit breakers in the wheel house vs below but I see now that's your plan. Fire bad - definitely! Do Aus regs require a fire suppression system below or are hand units fine? I'd also consider a positive ventilation system for the engine area too. Not much fear of diesel fumes getting ignited but would be nice to be able to suck smoke out (after!) any fire or smouldering occurred. Finally, I thought I caught a reference to "the old shop"... Have you sold the place and left that world behind?
I like your plan and would suggest three additional items to be considered: 1) Addition of battery disconnect switches 2) Addition of battery monitoring instruments and 3) Mitigation plan should the REDARC fail.
Electronics hate 3 things. #1 Heat #2 Water/ moisture #3 vibration I would plan to keep that Redarc unit away from those 3 things and you should be good. That Redarc unit looks pretty nice by the way.
Chris Glassey I've owned a steel hull diesel trawler and can guarantee that an engine room will have heat, moisture and vibration. I wouldn't put that thing in an engine room either, no way.
Hi stu a lot of conflicting info coming through , I fit out ally boats for a living , my advice would be keep it simple ,I woundnt complicate the system by fitting a battery just for the winch , use a 24 volt winch the cable cost will not be all that great to run to the 24volt system , the 24 volt system will be no problem charging from the alternator (just make sure it has sufficient output and in good condition)
I would also run a fused circuit to the wheel house and use another fuse block for all other lights ,radios sounders etc from there .
Also don’t complicate the wireing by useing relays when you don’t need to the fuse block will handle up to 30 amps per circuit ,
You can download a really good voltage drop app from the blueseas web site called circuit wizard it’s so easy to use just fill in the info and it calculates for you .
Love your videos keep them comeing
John
Thanks John. Yes, I'm totally convinced to go a 24V winch running off the starting batteries now. :)
Fuse panel can handle the current but he'll need relays to switch most loads over 10A...
JuzzyQld
If the switches used are rated for 25 amps and the cable is rated correctly you will not need relays .not many electric components in a boat are rated above about 18 amps ,even the 60 /70 psi water pumps will only draw 18 amps max pressure , there is no point in complicating a 12 volt system by useing relays unnecessarily,
you can also consider 48v for even more efficiency. 12v is sad if you have to use lots of power.
Nice advice, John. In the wheelhouse - that's where the design app and controls from blueseas comes in. It's where the convenience of CB's and power monitoring really needs to be. ....and to Stu..I know that's a pricey option, but it's the prettiest/cleanest one. Hopefully we readers can help out with that cost, but considering all of your effort on that trawler..and the wonderful results so far... you deserve it. Make the wheelhouse cadillac, man! :). BTW, I'm not a marine engineer, but a electrical controls engineer who understands the power distribution gig...where it needs to be simple and brute force, and where it needs to be practical. John's got this down. Go with the force, Stu :)
Good for REDARC, if they support you then I'll support them in future
Same here...that was a very nice thing to do.
And I was checking some of their products out...they will be getting orders from me soon!
I hit their website as soon as Stu mentioned them
@@rododonnell9783 Hey Rod, funny how you do that I reckon, I did exactly the same thing but to be fair, I think if they support guys we watch then they deserve my patronage
I wonder if REDARC DC/DC converter has battery charger that is “Temperature compensated” for the optimum float voltage and maximum service life.
And they are Aussie made
I've been in the electronics/electrical game almost 40 yrs and I can confirm it's an excellent decision to separate the AC and DC panels. Keep all the wiring in different conduits and a specific colour.
Also sensible to use DC wherever possible, however shore power will always be AC and some loads, like say a water heater, will be large enough to demand AC. Can I strongly recommend using an Isolation Transformer for the AC. These are highly desirable on all metal boats.
On that .. an inverter with it's switching would already I think be isolated from DC well enough but on the reverse way as you raise a valid point it may perhaps be better off with a 25a smart charger from the AC back to the DC and a double throw switch to use the charger OR the inverter (water vs shore). If you're using more than 25a 100%dc when on shore power you have some issues you need to look into. What's your thoughts on that Phillip?
@@NullaNulla Agree with Vancouver Jet, none of the inverters I'm aware of offer galvanic isolation between the AC and DC sides. There are three broad approaches I would consider.
One is to go full DC boat for all loads, and use the shore power AC to drive a battery charger only. You may be able to find a charger that offers marine spec isolation, but crucially if it ever fails someone would have to be sure to replace like with like. I would still use a separate isolation transformer even in this scenario.
The other is to go the invertor/charger route like a Victon Multiplus. Now you have to use a transformer for isolation. This is a nice smart setup, but the subtle downside of these devices is that on the DC side there is only one connection to the batteries and it's impossible to functionally split the charging and load function. This can be a showstopper when using Lithiums and BMS protection relays.
The third option I went with is to keep the AC and DC systems, AND the charging/load circuits all totally separate. The shore power arrives via an Isolation Transformer and powers some 'shore power only' loads like Air Con or Water Heating and a Battery Charging device that lands on the Charge Bus. Then on the Load Bus I have a separate inverter for AC loads that I want to use at all times, like an Induction cooker, or my large AC crash pump. This approach is a little more expensive, but much easier to accommodate all the electrical design goals.
@@Islandwaterjet what's the issue with sharing only the neutral though if there is only one tie point still to the hull? I would have thought it would be how you use the other (pos/active) and link it that counts.
@@NullaNulla Isolation Transformers perform three distinct roles that depend on the total separation of the source and load sides.
The first function is the obvious one, galvanic isolation of the ground loop to shore in order to prevent electrolysis and stray currents that can kill swimmers.
The second benefit is that they provide inherent shore power reverse polarity protection. If for any reason the live and neutral are swapped it just doesn't matter. This is why you don't want to share the shore neutral with the hull ... it could become live!
The third more subtle reason is the isolation transformer load side neutral is bonded to the metal hull. This provides a rock solid earth path for any AC circuits and ensures reliable operation of the RCD's or Earth Leakage protection devices.
It's my view that Isolation transformers should be mandatory on all metal boats, for the first reason alone. But on all other types GRP or Wood, the second and third reasons also justify them.
@@philipwilkie3239 if the shore goes only to a smart charger than you have no risk of it being an issue and simplifying a lot of things.
Focus on dc and then only invert things like the toaster and microwave. There are 12v dc tvs etc and even fridges of reasonable size then cook with lpg.
By the way, your almost to 100k which is amazing. I’ve only been on board for a couple years by my I remember when you were at 35-40,000 subs and all your hardwork is paying off. Thank you for all the work you put it to provide content. I know that you could have a lot of these projects done fast if you didn’t have to narrate or explain each step. And I can tell you each of us watching appreciate the time you put in
Thanks mate, you're welcome. :)
First thumbs up,
6th battery for the barrel winch yes... 900kw of solar??? Nagh mate, go 12-1500 if possible and take all the strain offa that alt.
Certainly done ya home work on the lightening earth... straight onto that Central "Single" earth. So you're going all LED lighting obviously with all that existing wiring.
Some good ideas there :) and yeah I reckon LED is 100% the way to go with most things now especially lighting to save on wiring and consumption :)
That lightning earth .... I'd be curious to see how that would really go if you copped a hit to the exhaust/mast/antenna array/wherever. I get the feeling it's to disippate the power via the water covered hull area but if it cops something not directly tethered to the hull it will still do some damage I reckon.
Done a fair bit of boat repair and worked as a residential elechicken for a few years- your plan sounds fairly solid and I don't see any glaring issues other than making sure that your 24 and 12 volt systems are properly, and absolutely, isolated.
Being the boat's in salt water, I'd also have to say grounding the hull is a wise decision.
(Also, as janky as it sounds, there's a reason we electricians don't use crimps- they tend to loosen over time with thermal expansion- we either use screw-clamps, or just wire-nut the shit out of everything. Wire-nuts handle elastic deformation better than crimps over time.. plus, they're easy AF to modify/expand later on)
Edit: and they do have dielectric-grease filled nuts that are suitable for marine environments.
Well, of COURSE you'd use a flashlight instead of a torch! Who wants the boat to catch fire from waving a TORCH around inside the cabin, not to mention the SMOKE .. ? ;)
I favor the full floating ground, but your existing service wiring ... which you want to keep ... will probably defeat that. So put lots of zincs on the hull.
I freakin love this series!
Why not add a 24v anchor winch, twice the voltage will half the current and thus the cable size. Probably better and cheaper than adding another battery and charging circuit.
Good point, the engine will always be running if you're using the anchor winch, so the start batteries won't be run down by the winch.
Yes true or change out that single complicating 24v starter!
@@jimz1168 The cables get way bigger with twice the current. Its 24V for a reason, but,....making the winch 24v has merit
@@rododonnell9783 makes sense only thoughts are around the design using 24v for start up only. Generally want them isolated from heavy draw, but I guess if the device favours charging start ups first should not be an issue other than extra wear on batteries.
Yes, I'm convinced this is the way to go now.
I literally just got to watch the last video, came back to my subscriptions, and saw this video posted 1 minute ago. Love it!
Sometimes the comments are as educational as the videos. Thanks for the vids Stu, and thanks for the informative comments folks.
I'm really appreciating all the great comments. :)
His subscribers leave some good ideas, that I now have to read all the comments, as well as watch his Stu's video.
That's rad...Redarc...Aussie made and brilliant gear...👍🍻😎...
I have to admit, as a Canadian, I have a lot of respect for Australian manufacturing. You crazy Aussies come up with the coolest stuff and don't give a rats if other countries think you're nuts for doing it!
Gotta haul a bunch of crap out of the Outback? Just put a bunch of trailers together on a rig and call it a train. Muscle cars can't carry enough? Put a truck box on it and call it a ute. Not getting diabetes fast enough? Put chocolate and more chocolate together and call it a TimTam.
Respect.
What a rad comment...Do you have Tim Tams in Canada...😁
@@rooster8039 We do! Bundaberg ginger beer is decidedly harder to find though. 🙁 I quite enjoyed it when I was there. But at least that shoe polish you call vegemite isn't here either. 😋
Good...Have you done the Tim Tam Slam...Vegemite is for champions...🤪...Bundy rum is also good too...(Bundy is slang for Bundaberg)...👍
@@rooster8039 Tim Tam slam: bite off two ends and suck up hot chocolate? I haven't had the pleasure. I didn't know they made rum.
That's something I think is strange about Australia: there's always a short-hand, slang, abbreviation, or acronym for everything out there. You even abbreviate abbreviations! Like really, how hard is it to say BBQ, but no, you have to shorten it to barbie! Lol! 😋
Nice work Redarc. DCDC controller AND 900W of your high quality panels. The redarc gear I have is super high quality. Very happy with it
You will putting a great deal of battery weight on those three cantilevered tubes mounted to that aft bulkhead, recommend you think about bracing that shelf from below. The braces could go diagonally to the base of the bulkhead or down to the nearest structural hull member.
Yes, a bit of extra support won't hurt.
Agree with all your thoughts, but perhaps consider the consequence of the Redarc unit as a single point of failure, i.e. what would you do if the Redarc failed in service? You would lose all 12V power to the instruments. Perhaps install a bypass switch that disconnects the 12V output of the Redarc and connects the 12V loads back to one of your batteries. You would need a SPDT switch rated to the full current of your 12V DC loads (60A?), or maybe a 60A SPDT relay energised from the Redarc 12V output so that no Redarc output reinstates the 12V feed from the battery. A switch would be my preference as the relay coil would become a constant drain (minimal), but 60A switches are much more expensive than 60A relays! Bare in mind that either a switch or relay in the line would also become a single point of failure, so use good quality components.
The REDARC unit is a single point of failure, but only for charging, everything would still work until the batteries went flat.
Maybe give some thought to running your house circuit at 24v instead of the 12v. Rather than your 3 x 12v house batts in parallel, look at 4 x 6v in series. 6V deep cycle batts are easily available, think golf cart.
Advantages are the series battery bank seems to treat the batteries a bit kinder than a large parallel bank. . one battery getting lazy in a 3 x parallel bank will really put the hurt on the other 2.
Another advantage is reduced conductor size. Double voltage means half the current for a given wattage load. Smaller fuses and less heavy-duty fuse holders also.
Things like an inverter are also more efficient at the higher voltage, and you get that same 50% amperage benefit. Do the maths on how many amps a 2000w inverter pulls on the DC side at 12v!! It's an eye opener.
Depending on the solar panels, there can be an advantage to running those at the higher voltage too.
Most things you will want to run are available in either 24v, or auto select 12/24. Think heavy vehicle/truck/earthmoving market for things like radios and other accessories. Most marine accessories are also available in 24v. Things like lighting can easily be run in 12v series pairs if there isn't a 24v option for the fixture you want to use. I'm seeing more and more move to 24v as the standard DC voltage on boats. . it seems new builds are only using 12v for the legacy or super-specialist stuff that is absolutely unavailable in 24v, and even then, is usually just a 24-12 reducer running the 12v bus.
Oooo. RedArc. Le fanci.
Keep in mind Stu, chargers for lithium batteries such as tool batteries laptops etc, are extremely finicky on the type of power the receive. Altered sine wave generally won’t work. You need pure sine inverters. Also you need an emergency generator for the beer fridge. Maybe two.
Two back up generators for the beer fridge is the best advice so far. ;)
I am going to base the following on "shit happens" and I know it happens to you as I have watched your videos :) Run a charging line up to the winch battery through an isolator. Since the alternator is IT for power, put a volts gauge and a mechanical ammeter for it in the engine bay - when things go south this is where you'll be, anyway. A set of amp and volt gauges for engine 24v, house 12v, and the winch systems just for monitoring so you can spot trends like a high load, batteries not taking a charge, or a failing alternator/starter/motor. They will also help keep you within your energy/wiring 'budget' and you'll know if that new coffee maker or seawater-to-beer converter is drawing too many electrons. Have you made allowances for engine room and battery ventilation (including winch)? Not just for vapor off gassing but in case billowing clouds of noxious smoke from fried wiring or oil hitting a hot engine. Install a 'fancy gizmo' bypass so you can easily reroute power for charging if needed. You might have left your tools or something at home when things go wrong (is usually the case) and you won't have to bodge something up. Think Star Trek, man! Do you want to have to wait for hours while Scotty or Geordie is rerouting the blown EPS conduit when you could just go flip a switch or two and get back to base before all the crab legs are gone?! On the other hand, you'll want some strategically placed kill switches around in case of Romulan pirates or when you have a hot date aboard {CLICK}- "Oh dear, we'll have to sleep aboard until someone finds us. My cabin is right this way...".
Ventilation in the engine bay is definitely something I'm going to look into. There is currently a couple of pipes to the top of the wheel house about 4 inch in diameter but I might also look into adding something fan forced.
So is there going to be a BBQ get together when this trawler relaunches?
We've dedicated combined years of our time following this rebuild.
Gold Whisperer
Great idea. Yes , many hard , dedicated hours putting aside the myriad of other activities, most that are quite boring , to watch Dangar Stu make his three legged way through this project tripping over shadows , almost kicking himself a few dozen times , measuring once and cutting thrice and all the other things that I can’t do or don’t have the balls to attempt !! Lol
Surely we will be rewarded with the honour to contribute a sausage and a loaf of bread to celebrate the launch !!
What a Stella idea !!
To bad Stu is on the other side of the planet from me! I would love to do the BBQ for the launch! It would be an expensive BBQ to attend all the way from Texas, much less ship my smoker there to do the food. LOL Though I would love the chance to introduce ya'll to some true Texas BBQ. (Brisket and Burnt end Beans both with a tomato based sauce) Along with some Carolina style pulled pork and ribs (Vinegar and mustard based tangy sauce) Hell for the launch I might even throw on some smoked jalapeno's stuffed with cheese and wrapped in bacon.
All the while I would love to get a chance to learn local dishes that fit into what you consider BBQ. :)
Ken Cramer
Stop making excuses. But the smoker on a boat over here and book the flights. Qantas fly direct from Sydney to Dallas my friend. I can pick you up at the airport 25 mins away and drive you up the black snake ( the express way north) to the Brooklyn Bridge ( yep, the REAL one ) and we can drive along the water until
we see a clapped out landie and a filthy dirty bloke with a grinder in his hand near a green tub with holes in it
No worries maaan. Just get here.
I will bring six litres of dead horse for the snags .
John Healey cracked me up haha!
Ken Cramer yeah come on over. I’ll knock a couple roos’ over and we’ll see what you can do with them.
I would buy another REDARC and keep it in your spare parts bin on board. With everything channeled through that one controller. A spare would be priceless if you are out several hours and it fails.
Yeah that's my thoughts, I'd be looking for something for redundancy
He just needs a switched bypass directly from the alternator. And a spare set of Andersons on the battery bank to plug the solar in via a cheap separate solar mppt reg. A mppt will self regulate even if the alternator is pumping in juice.
These charge controllers are pretty well sealed, they should generate enough internal heat daily with the solar input to take care of any condensation. Instructions say you can mount them in engine bays on 4x4's, although most I've seen don't!
I'd have my redundancy setup including battery bank in the wheel house & able to be switched from that position.
Million different ways to do this, you'll need one or two of those Cooper's 6packs to nut this out.
@@andrewiannello6548 A set of jumper leads from crank to house batteries works also. Redarc don't warranty their DCDC chargers for under bonnet fitment although they are ok for anything forward of the radiator from what I have read
Enjoy yosur trip. wrt electricals, - keep it simple. I'd dump the 12V, run everything from 24V. have distribution fuses in cabin. relying on a single bit of electronics, when it goes wrong, and it will, you'll be stuffed. Best wishe
Stuart, a little off the subject, just got two of your Dangar Marine tee shirts last week. Great quality, a little stretchy so they're very comfortable (I need stretchy). Wore one last weekend to work on the boats...well worth the money. No one at the marina asked about Dangar Marine...am I the only subscriber in Chicago?
Thanks for getting the t-shirts Roger!
Use LED lights. They will save on power from battery's. Check Amazon you should be able to fined 12 volt Leds.
'better to have a leaking boat than a boat on fire' best sentence ever!
John Thorogood , that depends on how big the fire is or how big the hole.
LoL
Nice Video... You might want to ask them about the OPERATING TEMP for your unit... I don't think it will last long in the engine bay, but could be wrong.... You may want to mount in the wheel house instead. Cheers and thanks for the video!!
It can operate at up to 80C (175F) and has an over temp warning that shows in the wheelhouse. They also state that it should be mounted as close to the batteries as possible.
Dangar Marine You would know better than I by a long shot if the engine bay on its worst day exceeds that... just thought I would mention it... 175 is pretty darn hot, so I guessing you are good then?? Cheers and keep up the great vids!
I wonder if REDARC DC/DC converter has battery charger that is “Temperature compensated” for the optimum float voltage and maximum service life.
As you said...try to keep as much of your equipment in the 12VDC range where possible...I don't know what is available there but just check out a truck stop...they are usually packed with 12V stuff!
I have many 12VDC devices that work as good or better than AC...also use 12VDC lighting with LED strings & lamps...though you should get the IP65/IP66 rated for the marine setting.
As far as other voltages you can get buck/boost converters that can supply any level you need...and for connections you can use gel-filled connectors that are heat-shrinked with marine glue.
The AC side (separated is a great idea) is a bit easier for the wiring as it goes farther with smaller gauge cabling...though I suggest waterproof cabinetry if there is danger of water spraying on it.
If you were to send me a list of everything you need to power...and the distances involved...I could get a plan up to help you out...just give me a hollar if you need to :)
Thanks mate. I really appreciate the offer. I'm going to get some more detailed plans drawn up soon.
Don’t forget get to install isolation switches!!
The Redarc unit isolates house and starting banks automatically.
@@paulg9314 Still need disconnects so you can work on the system with doing collateral damage.... Also, if you have a problem, you need to be able to bulk turn things off.
Yes I have done two isolation switches one for the motor and one for accessories in My 6.5 mtr boat , all tinned copper wires which were solder ironed and then waterproof heat shrank , never a problem
Cheers Benny
Solid plan Stu! :)
Thoughts...
*USB Power* -- You're right about the 12 vdc to USB stuff. Readily available. I'd recommend putting in the 12-volt plugs that look like the cigar lighters in your car. If we get a USB D around the bend, you can bet Amazon will be flooded with USB D chargers to plug into cigarette lighter plugs. You can pop onto Amazon right now and pick from a wide variety of USB A and USB C chargers meant to pop into that plug in the dashboard and they're cheap. Everything from laptops to camera gear and more can be powered off USB these days.
*AC Power* -- Have a hard think about the rest of the AC loads. You may be able to nix the whole system. Hair Dryer? Microwave? Blender? Power Tools? Well, you can buy 12 vdc battery chargers for most brands of battery powered power tools. Can you live comfortably without some of those galley conveniences? Shore power charging could be a simple and cheap portable unit like the kind used to charge a car from the wall. No need for an isolation transformer or galvanic isolator anymore either. (I have strong opinions about which of those two I'd fit if I needed them though.) You could use one of the small, inexpensive, portable inverters that you can plug into one of your 12-volt accessory plugs if you need some occasional AC power. It'd save you a heap of money and hassle if you decide you can be comfortable and meet your needs without the fixed AC system.
*Winch* -- If you can find a way to get your hands on suitable cables for the winch, you'll be far happier in the long run if you don't resort to the workaround you talked about. That said, your plan will work. My experience with the approach is that it has more points of failure, maintenance, and ends up being more expensive than it is worth, but if you're on a tight budget and scraping together the bits and bobs you need, the remote battery system will get you going.
*Hydraulics* -- While we're talking about scrounging parts, if you can piece it together on your budget, putting a hydraulic pump on the engine and then hydraulic winches on the anchor windlass and the crane would solve the battery issue and more. That's how the smaller commercial fishing boats are set up around these parts (larger ones having dedicated hydraulic power plants.) I'm betting an industrious guy like you could adapt a hydraulic pot hauler / trap puller to the crane without too much trouble. You might strike gold at a marine salvage.
That's about all that popped into my head. Solid plan. Good work Stu. :)
Thanks for the input Seth. I think I will look into what a hydraulic pump for the GM would cost. Could be super handy and solve a lot of power problems too.
Run a hydrologic winch from the main diesel with a ac clutch set up way simpler
Good shit mate your doing one hell of a good job👌
If you don’t have the windlass motor already, hydraulics there might save a lot of issues. Hydraulics might also provide other crane uses depending on what you want to do with the boat.
Yes, hydraulics certainly are worth looking into.
As a Brit I’m annoyed you said flash light ;p
Limeys are easily annoyed whine a lot..join the que
If you run your winches off the 24v side the higher voltage will reduce your current requirements and maybe get rid of that extra battery, assuming you haven't already got the winch motors, I know the cabling is going to be expensive either way but at the higher voltage slightly smaller gauge it might come cheaper than the extra battery, charging unit and less things to ultimately fail also...
Edit:.Ah I see a lot of people have suggested this 24v winches, its worth looking into. Also good move on trying to stick with DC, if you need voltages other than 12/24v just try find appropriate DC:DC converters (converters not transformers :-) )
Loving you boat rebuild dude. I’m like a junkie hungry for more....
Q. How is your wife cool with the hours you put in? Legend!
Hey mate. UA-cam is now my full time job so I'm on the boat Mon-Fri and at home editing on Saturday with Sundays off.
Like your work stu almost 100k subs keep up the good work.
And he just clicked over 20 million video views too
Your plan for your power needs seems to be fine and quite simple. This will be a blessing because as of a boat this size, simple is best. I've built a few boats myself and I found an old trick that works a treat when planning the electrical and plumbing. Start off the same way, draw a layout and also do a side profile of your boat and be as accurate as you can with the dimensions. Then add a layer of clear plastic (map talc) over the top and using coloured felt tip pens, trace out your 12v system. Add another layer and do your 24v system (If you have spent anytime in the army and made plans on maps, you'll understand this better). Use a different pen for each system and when you are done, it allows for accurate measuring of conduits and assists in calculating bends, fittings, saddles and all the extras. It basically unclutters the main diagram and gives you a simple overview on what you need and where you can put it. This may work, it may not, its free info. Keep up the good work!
I definitely want to draw up some scale plans of the boat. As you say, having the system diagram is one thing but having the exact distances is important for buying wire and knowing the expected voltage drop along the way.
Hi Stu, just a thought. Winch motor for anchor, hydraulic instead of electric? Emergency Lighting around the distribution panels, so if mains fuses go, you still have light to fix it, not trying to find a torch/Flashlight?
Yes, emergency lighting is something several people have mentioned, usually from bad experience!
Thanks Stu, safe trip to Bundy and maketime for a distillery tour...👍
Thanks for these videos. Not only learning from your rebuild, but you inspire me to keep working on my boat projects!
Your a fuking GENIUS. I’m learning something I know nothing about. Your an excellent teacher.
You’re one of the reasons I don’t need cable. Enjoy your vacation 🤙🏼
I build campervans and 100% agree that dc appliances are the go . Sure mains power gear is cheaper and more variety but if your inverter blows then you have nothing . With dc all you need is batteries and if your batteries die then its easy enough to get another and you still have appliances working . And if you can afford it go lithium batteries in the long term they are cheaper then lead acid .
I do like the simplicity of 12V, and, as you say, drop in a spare 12V battery and you are back in business, even if it is just for a while without charging.
How does a company such as Redarc stay in business in these times by actually using such an outdated policy of listening to and advising customers with their individual problems, got me beat?
It’s crazy, I know! 😊
Your design should work perfectly; thinking outloud is the best way to go. Enjoy.
Just a thought, a small backup diesel generator could be a lifesaver and get the main engine running if something catastrophic occurred. It could also ensure your separate anchor motor battery or batteries are charged. Yes it would be expensive but out on open waters you want to make sure you know you can start your main engine. Have a look into it and a think about it Stu.
I would definitely want a back up generator all the time if going offshore. Would a petrol generator not be sufficient? Or is the a concern with fuel storage?
@@landlifem5872 just thinking one type of fuel is enough to carry on board, except maybe LPG operation as I am assuming there will be gas on board for cooking.
@@matthewmoses4222
Yeah that's cool, I could see a petrol generator could give trouble with condensation in the fuel if it's not used regularly, and any vapours from the fuel as we all know in a confined space .. but the advantages of course are the purchase price and ease of starting.
sounds like you've got a solid plan two suggestions 1: a battery monitor 2: check out pacific yacht systems on youtube great wealth of knowledge pertaining to boat electrical systems and yes they do highly recommend firefly batteries and they are not wrong
Yep, got some battery monitoring in the pipeline and today it is raining so I'm binge watching all the PYS videos now. :)
USB-C on a Macbook is what's called Power Delivery (PD), and is 19v-20v. Lenovo makes a 12v DC 65w USB-C charger that has PD and should charge your Macbook. If you have a Macbook Pro the charger that came with it is 85w, so the 65w charger will take a little longer.
The Lenovo part number is 40AK0065WW. I'm using one to charge a Macbook Pro and a Lenovo Thinkpad for our portable ham radio activity. It's also great for charging USB-C phones.
G'Day Stu...Nice plan for the charge side,,be looking at a redundancy circuit,,just in case the pretty system failed,,,
as for high current draws,,relays with a diode between pos and neg to take shock shunt out,
or use both poles to reduce burn on contacts,,that is pos and neg switched through relay at the same time,,,,or even use 2 terminals for each side of the component,,so as not one set of relay contacts take all the shock load,,
and finally buz bars,,hmmm cable run through boat and tap of to relays and use control circuit to turn on and off,,short runs of high current supply not all going through switch,,which won't last long with high current load going through them,
not sure how much of this cobbidgook you under stand,,
so Good luck Pal..
Water and electricity,,,Hmmmmmmm
Thanks Ian, great tips.
I love those Lonestar drum winches. I tried one that was crap, should have bit the bullet and bought a Lonestar! They sponsored my favorite ''Wicked Tuna'' TV show guy, Dave Marciono. In the USA its thru Hammer Marine in Texas. I use their chain guard. Not many Americans use drum winches.......But you all are way more inventive then American boat owners (fishermen)
Thanks mate, I'll check them out.
Thanks Stu..a plan before wiring a boat is the best way to tackle it I find..
For sure. There has already been so much great advice I'm glad I didn't just dive in and do it. :)
Ill be keen to see the redarc hooked up to the multi voltage system mate..I have one that hooks into my slideon camper and its great 12v to 12v
I'd look at single point of failure components that can leave you in trouble. Namely the REDARC charger (since everything is going through it) and anchor winch battery. Can a bypass circuit with a heavy duty switch be used to bypass the REDARC? Does the anchor winch have a manual override?
Hey mate given that you are going to use the Redarc unit as a central distribution point for power it is also a central failure point. I would carry a spare Redarc unit just in case you have a surge that fries it.
Yep, agree.
on your AC install a galvanic isolator unit if you plan to use any type of shore power. I would put your spade fuses in your cabin.
If you have any blank slots left in the fuse block, use them to hold emergency fuses for the critical components. (radio, bilge pump etc) It can save you from having to hunt down your spares in an emergency...
Hey Stu: you might find some value in the Lithium battery set up Jono has: ua-cam.com/video/JW-v8PNx2C4/v-deo.html. He has other clips that explain why he went Lithium and also on his charging set up. Jono lives on a Long Boat in the UK.
There's an old saying "Kiss. Keep It Simple Stupid" There are times you'll need to sort the electrics under pressure, or perhaps someone unfamiliar will need to access the electrics. As others have said, don't over complicate it.
How about looking for a air powered windlass
Why not ditch 12 volt totally and run 24v throughout, all the same stuff is available and you'll suffer less voltage drop and/or run lighter gauge cable.
@@Islandwaterjet I never said it was cheap, it is however more robust and it is readily available through HGV and marine suppliers etc.
There are benefits to going pure 24V, it is true.
G'day Stu, I noticed in your mud map you don't have a fuse (Midi fuse) at the 24V batteries for the Redarc feed, I know you would have most likely picked that up as you were doing the job, but that stood out at me.
Now remember nothing but nothing should leave the pos terminal of a battery without cable protection as close as possible to the battery (the only exception is the starter cable), and in the form of a fuse or circuit breaker. :-D
Hey mate. Yep, I didn't draw all the fuses (or battery switches). I'll do a proper circuit diagram and share it now I've absorbed all the great advice in these comments.
I would discard 99% of these suggestions, and seek the advice of a qualified marine electrician, about the only thing that made any sense to me was the part about using a fuse,
Another load of useful knowledge I have absorbed (I think ) !.
Hi Stu, firstly check if the DC converter's solar input has MPPT (maximum power point tracking). If not I would suggesting getting a seperate MPPT to sit between your panels and the DC converter. Just make sure the output voltage is suitable.
Secondly I would recommend you use 24vdc around the boat not 12. Almost everything now allows for both. And if there is something particular that really needs 12vdc you are better putting in a small 24/12 DC converter near the appliance. This will save you a bunch of cable and is also kinder to your batteries.
With regards to your winch having the batteries at the front is a good idea. However I would use a 24 or 48v winch and run a small set of trickle charging cables from the engine room as apposed to putting in a seperate PV system.
Finally earthing with at a single point is a good idea. Just make sure you don't oversize any fuses so if you do short to the boat you blow the fuse.
240vac power is only an issue if you are going to use shore power. In which case you need a galvanic isolator. I would avoid using shore power of at all possible.
I'm a power/renewable energy engineer and happy to help with any questions.
Thanks David, I appreciate all your advice. I've bought some cheap CAD software for circuit design and I'm drawing up some more detailed plans now. I can really see the advantages to a pure 24V install, but I think for now I am going to have a dual 12/24V setup and see how it goes. Unfortunately I have too much invested in the 12V side to abandon it now, but it is good to know for the next (likely bigger) boat. :) Also, I'm really thinking of avoiding 240V almost completely. I'm now thinking of splitting my two boards as 12 and 24 rather than DC and AC.
@@DangarMarine you're welcome Stu. If you are reusing all the 12vdc wiring in the boat that makes sense. I agree avoid AC unless you definately need it. You can always get an elcheapo 12-24Vdc/240vac converter onboard and use it as you need.
I'm old been around the block always skeptical that little redarc box seems to do a lot to be long run reliable I would have plan B as an option you know 30 50 miles out there
Take care be safe
Just quickly, I would start with the positive bus and fuses (self resetting circuit breakers? about $6 each plus covers at RV shops) up the top and the negative bus at the bottom so your wiring diagrams will follow world standards, ie all the negatives should be connected together as a bottom line on the schematics and all the control and working equipment trickle down from the top positives (in your case two) it makes troubleshooting easy and always put relay and contactor coils as the last items before the negative line, never put a switch or contact after a control device also the boat's hull should be bonded to the negative line as well just as in a car. PS I'm only 11 minutes in.
I've got a similar Redarc DC-DC charger on the 4WD. It manages the charge to the house battery, isolates the house and crank batteries, and regulates raw solar into the charging system. After 5 years it's never let me down. Great brand. Would buy again in a heartbeat.
Good to hear. :)
Haha, I thought the main reason for the loss of boats was people forgetting they have a boat on a mooring for a couple of years.
I've also thought about placing a battery next to the anchor winch but I'm still not convinced. The added outlay for a (6th!!) battery compared to the price of thick copper per metre still sways me to the opinion that the anchor winch is better driven direct from the main battery bank with heavy gauge cables. As you say, it's not a giant boat so the run is only ~15' and spending a little extra on the wire is like buying 10 batteries if you think about how long the copper will last. Is the redundancy factor your concern?
Thank you for the "bonus" video :)
Dont forgot to use Dielectric grease on wire contacts circuit breakers and battery terminals its pretty cheap and will stop arching and corrosion
Yip fully agree there.
one thing i can provide as advice is when planning this out.. go up one wire size for things to allow for wire degeneration...
Make sure you have a master disconnect that's easily accessible. It should be on that main board, possibly before the large fuses. And several other 'master branch' disconnects on the main board so you can work on branch circuits without having to power down the whole boat. I don't think that fuse box has enough single fuse capacity (great for engine room accessories however) for your branch to the wheelhouse breaker panel. I would suggest using another large fuse (30amp?) plus a disconnect or maybe just a large circuit breaker that can also be the disconnect. Same goes for the feed to both the deck crane & windless. I know they have large surface mount 12v circuit breakers for automotive, must also exist in marine versions (suitably more expensive of course...). Finally, consider mounting all the wiring in (finger) raceways, makes everything much, much neater and easier to repair/upgrade and they are cheap. Also, invest in a label printer so you can label everything including the wires.
Thanks for keeping us in the "loop" Stu, how many volts are required to lift a shark cage?
Why not just put a separate small charger for the winch battery powered from the engine alternator? You can go from 24v to 12v with the charger and you will never have to worry about being stuck on anchor because if you are out all it will take is a running motor to lift the anchor.
Have decided to run a 24 anchor winch of the starting batteries now.
@@DangarMarine That is not a bad idea, those winches can have a very high amperage draw and a single battery can put you in a bad spot. I have found a decent priced cable that you can use. I have used this cable in several applications and recommend it in spots where line lose and overheating are an issue. Another nice thing about this cable is it is actually the size it claims to be, many sellers lie about sizes. Also this cable is very flexible. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016HFDDLO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
For anyone that misses the link to the video he mentioned in the beginning,
ua-cam.com/video/tMHGNf20aIw/v-deo.html
Make sure that electronic box of tricks can handle the currents you are going to require. It looks a bit small to me. What about heating and air conditioning? Running that off a separate AC generator? Otherwise its looking good.
Yeah, won't be installing any heating or cooling in the boat other than maybe a small fan near the bunk.
Hydraulic winch driven off the engine would be better, but will cost more. Cheers
What the hell is that @ 2:03 ? Is it DC or DiC?? haha good luck, keep on trawlin'
Looking at my comments again I realize you need to keep things compact and cabling short so arranging the hardware your way is very important, I still advise the drawings be set out as in a page of a book, left to right and top to bottom, instrument schematics on separate pages (you might get them supplied with new gear anyway).
Keep up the good work!
I Really enjoy your longer vids 👍
Best regards
Frank
From Denmark
Thanks Frank.
Just my two cents here, but I'd definitely not ground both the AC and DC to the boat at the same time, you would have the potential to have AC noise introduced into your 12 volt systems. Also, I'd would get some advice about grounding anything to the hull, remember using the 12 volt system to remove rust? Well you will have just set up half of the circuit, all you would need is something that was leaking voltage into the water, and your going to see a problem. I could be wrong on all of this, since I'm just an electronic/computer guy, and not a boat guy like you are.
I thought he was only grounding the battery bank not the AC side ... did I hear wrong?
@@NullaNulla I thought he wasn't sure as to what all he was going to ground.
@@TheDgdimick he was talking about single strap to prevent electrolysis but still have a point to earth do the boat wouldn't be a floating isolated voltage potential in a storm.
cooling fins on the redarc will dissipate heat best when they are mounted vertically.
and i would suggest standoff spacers so it doesnt melt the board plus air flow underneath
Good point! :)
Another good point!
Please dont go with 12v for everything, go with 24v and 240v, look at a inverter. Also go with hydraulik wrech
Why? Everything that he's going to need is available in 12 volt these days. What advantage is an inverter?
@@lathselman9772 I think Stu has a big 24V to 240V invertor that came with the boat but I reckon your correct about going 12 volt, everything is available in 12 volt now and just a good if not better than the 240V versions.
Awesome videos! When you'r working out your power, have you thought about some sort of underwater lighting and such to assist in salvage? Maybe a couple places for moveable spotlights or worklights on deck? Just a few thoughts.
Yes, I have been talking to Aqualuma about underwater lighting. I think it would be great for fishing and for returning to the boat from a night dive too.
I bought a new inverter for our RV last year and runs super quite. It has a battery switch to switch on to run off my 2 in series marine quality 12v batteries which in series is 24v. We mainly use AC hookup power which for a boat would be shore power off the marina docks where available. With the inverter a trickle charge keeps the 12v batteries charged. With your setup with solar where shore power not available the cells will trickle charge your batteries especially with a good charging weather day. With charging a boat fire is a major concern so a fire retardant auto system would be worth looking into someday like aircraft have. They remove the oxygen in confined spaces which are needed for a fire to spread. Just sharing my rambling thoughts
Hey Tim, a good fire system would be interesting to look into. Bad things can happen...
Bloody hell Stu you gotta massive wiring job ahead it'll be satisfying to see you start this from scratch. All the best mate .
Thanks mate. Fortunately a couple of mates have offered to help with this. Should keep the spirits up!
@@DangarMarine With this cold, you sure gona need the spirits. Thought you only liked beer, like me.
Run led lighting. Will save you on power and last longer. On a system like this 70% savings on lighting will benefit you
leith bodin I completely agree with using LED for all of your lighting. Huge power usage savings, the life of the lights is incredibly longer and they are easy to work with.
Yep, will definitely swap all the old incandecent lighting out for LED.
Sounds like you have good grasp of the basic, I proffer the segregation of AC from the haul, seems to reduce induction.
Master Disconnect Switches for everything or Murphy will BITE you! Your off to a great start. Use Blue Seas equipment and their design software should help. Have Fun!
Redundancy is the key to safety, not just convenience, so that is good you are keeping all those power systems (petrol generator, solar, alternator off engine).
Just some thoughts and questions;
1/ With the macbook, consider water proofing - immerse it in epoxy, let it seep into everything, close the lid and let it set. Reduces power consumption substantially too. (to zero) :)
2/ Higher volts means lower current which means lighter gauge wiring...you may want to look at routing 24V rather than 12V? (That is what I am doing in my camper), but then again, I have the 24V appliances which tend to get a little more expensive than their 12V counterparts - not always, but often.
3/ I would've thought DC could pose a problem to a boat and AC would be the less problematic choice since it cannot cause galvanic corrosion AFAIK. Maybe you can find someone that knows to talk about that? (or even a learned commenter)
Any info from you is always welcome and trusted, so thanks for more info yet again!
Good work! You may consider running a 24V only system with DC/DC converters where needed.
Thanks go out to the guy that sent the DC/AC charger 👍👍👍
Considering how the Redarc is the heart of the power input and routing to loads, a significant infarction in it could leave you powerless (or at least non-rechargeable) . So would it be a good idea to have either a spare Redarc on board, or to have a simple/rugged switch-mode charger (normally disconnected from the system) also on the E-board to provide 30-50 charging amps to the batteries? Then you could unplug the dead Redarc, switch in the backup charger and head toward home or a nearby port for repair. Additionally, gas discharge tubes or Varistor (MOV) networks on the input lines to the Redarc and solar charger, to shunt spikes to ground and clamp input voltage-level peaks, might add some peace of mind when going the kilometers or enduring storms. And a spare alternator would be cheap insurance as well. As a guess, it would seem that suppliers of oil-platform electronics might have some of those contingencies covered already in system, spike-suppression filters or conditioners. Lightning is beautiful...until it induces transient currents in your hull.
Simple, 12/24Vdc, 2kA, surge & noise filter
www.seachoice.com/pdf/19931_MARINE%20SURGE%20SUPPRESION_B.pdf
Good opening article (docking/120V hook-up focus in foreign ports):
SURGE PROTECTION DEVICES & YOUR BOAT
partsandpower.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/surge-protection-devices-your-boat/
Thanks mate. Appreciate the info and the links. :)
Totally enjoy following your work. I'll never own a boat larger than a Kayak but will know how to restore one thanks to you.
From my experience as an electrical technician & Ham Radio Operator I have two tips for you to consider... Avoid any CRIMP CONNECTIONS & buy a second DC to DC charger as a spare. Crimp connections fail. Not maybe, they WILL fail. Crimp connectors also collect moisture, they oxidize & corrode & add resistance to your DC circuit. Use solder connections instead, and completely heat shrink them. And since that DC to DC charger is your electrical system hub, if it fails, you're SCREWED. It's simply smart insurance to have a spare hermetically sealed & stowed away. May you never ever need it, but if you do it's an easy exact replacement & you'll get back to port with no worries.
GREAT SERIES, look forward to more.
OH! BTW, get a Ham Radio License! I've personally helped rescue a mariner adrift off of Nova Scotia in a gale via 20 meters ham radio. You sail over the horizon from land you need HF radio. When all else fails, Ham Radio WORKS!
Yes, with something so critical, a spare is almost essential.
Hi Stu, it was pleasure talking to you at Sanctuary Cove International Boat Show. I would suggest adding additional 24V charger to charge only starting batteries (+ anchor winch battery) and leave BCDC1250D to change house batteries. Also, battery monitor (something like Victron Battery Monitor BMV-702) would be nice to have at wheel house. Thank you for great videos!
Hey Yury, nice to meet you too. :) Yes, I'm going to dedicate a third of the solar cells to charging the starter batteries and run the winch off those. Have a battery monitor in the pipeline!
I would solder every connection I could, mechanically crimp the big connections at the battery. Definitely separating the different currents on different boards is great. Conduit is also the best way. As for the wiring of the motor, I suggest 7 way trailer wire for commercial vehicles. They normally come with 2-10 gauge wires, and 5-12 gauge wires. Should be more than enough for that old Detroit. P.S. I love old Detroit diesels! The old screaming Jimmy's we call'em in the U.S.. Hopefully you slap a new coat of paint on the jewel, and put it in memory of the Green Machine. R.I.P. Love the videos. Keep up the hard work, here comes some more long thought processes. Wiring is always "fun"!
I'm becoming a big an of these Detroit diesels too. I'm definitely going to be painting it once it has been rebuilt. :)
NOW - you're in my wheelhouse!! Looking over the comments (I didn't wanna sound like a broken record), there are a few really great tips. I'd like to comment on a few things: I believe there are (2) reasons to fuse. 1) To protect the boat from electrical fire (fuse at the battery) 2) to protect a specific device from shorts (or other issues) - fuse at the device (or fuse block).
As for the REDARC products, I'm unfamiliar but it looks like the perfect fit for your project. I can't tell the gauge of wire, but to me, it seems a little light. When doing 12v projects here at our shop, after calculating current draw, we use 8GA, 4GA, sometime 1/0GA wire depending on the load. The wire coming out of the REDARC seems to be 12GA at the most. I'll jump on their site to get the skinny on it's spec's.
As for the others' comments: Go LED lighting when possible (even in gauges if available)and I'd do a 24v winch for the anchor. Someone commented that you'd lose 12v power if the REDARC would die. I don't believe that would be the case since the battery bank and the devices are on the other side of the REDARC. You would lose the ability to CHARGE the 12v system, but not lose power completely. Eventually, yes. Not sure of your timeline on the electrical system, but I would LOVE to send a care package of goodies your way. I have no idea how long something from the US would get to you, but I'd love to help. Let me know.
Mail it now priority, it'll get there in time. Nice idea.
Thanks Scott, appreciate the info. You are right in that I would only lose the ability to charge, the power would still work until the batteries went flat. I will definitely look into replacing all the existing incandescent lighting with LED, definitely a great way to save power. I've got about four weeks to finish the electrics so send me an email to dangarstu@gmail.com if you have something you'd like to send. Any help is always greatly appreciated! :)
You could set up shore/generator battery charging on a transfer switch. Victron makes highly featured inverter/chargers (multiplus). It will combine power sources (battery, generator) for higher AC output. Their battery monitor is nice too, BMV-712, gives remaining battery as a percentage, and time to depletion. Maybe add another dc-dc charger for the anchor winch?
I've currently got an inverter that came with the boat, but those Victron inverter charger does look very cool, I'll have to look into them. Could be worth the investment.
On battery placement: putting the batts in a hot engine room is not the best choice when you seem to have a lazarette on the other side of the bulkhead. Hot batteries charge slower, apart from several other considerations. Also, ABYC standards...purely advisory but generally well considered by genuine experts...require battery disconnect switches to be located outside engine rooms, so they too could go the other side of that bulkhead. Finally, that REDARC device (which sounds excellent btw) will de-rate its output at higher temps if it's like every other charger....so again, consider putting that great mounting board on the lazarette side of the bulkhead.
You didn't mention an inverter....are you planning for one? Really handy when you have small or short duration 240v needs. Allows you to avoid starting that petrol gennie. Maybe plan for one in your design even if you don't put it in straight away.
Finally from me: windlass battery. Understand your logic for putting in bow but actually on a vessel your length, I wouldn't worry about a heavy cable run for that distance. But if you stay with the fwd battery idea, bear in mind that a bow battery is going to be subject to a fair amount of pounding at times. A good choice because of its more robust construction/vibration resistance AND because it's particularly good at tolerating high current discharges, is the Optima spiral wound blue top AGM 34M. Note don't be talked into the hybrid/dual purpose type D34M, which are more readily available...it's a poor compromise for your windlass application.
Love your work. Looked for you at boat show without success...would have liked to shake your hand.
Thanks Paul, appreciate your input and sorry I missed you at the boat show.
the Redarc...is it capable (as you are mentioning) to charge both a 24V and a 12V battery bank? I cannot find those specs! I think you will have at least an 80Amps alternator on your machine and the Redarc cannot handle that. So, just charge the 24V bank directly with the alternator and charge the 12V bank with the Redarc dc-dc dohikkie Use the 24V bank as input for the Redarc.
I wonder if REDARC unit has battery charger that is “Temperature compensated” for the optimum float voltage and maximum service life.
Another great vid, Stu.
My 0.02 was going to be keep the circuit breakers in the wheel house vs below but I see now that's your plan.
Fire bad - definitely! Do Aus regs require a fire suppression system below or are hand units fine?
I'd also consider a positive ventilation system for the engine area too. Not much fear of diesel fumes getting ignited but would be nice to be able to suck smoke out (after!) any fire or smouldering occurred.
Finally, I thought I caught a reference to "the old shop"... Have you sold the place and left that world behind?
Hey mate. Fire suppression would be good. Yeah, have now rented the old workshop out to a new mechanic to run his own business from.
I like your plan and would suggest three additional items to be considered: 1) Addition of battery disconnect switches 2) Addition of battery monitoring instruments and 3) Mitigation plan should the REDARC fail.
Yes, all of these are planned, will add them to a more detailed drawing soon.
Electronics hate 3 things.
#1 Heat
#2 Water/ moisture
#3 vibration
I would plan to keep that Redarc unit away from those 3 things and you should be good. That Redarc unit looks pretty nice by the way.
Chris Glassey I've owned a steel hull diesel trawler and can guarantee that an engine room will have heat, moisture and vibration. I wouldn't put that thing in an engine room either, no way.