Hannah Arendt predicted this issue in her book The Human Condition in 1958. The premise of the book was that automation and the distribution of labor would ultimately lead to alienation and atomization, with all of its social ills. She believed that work (creating something new), as opposed to labor (doing what it takes to survive), was an important part of developing our notion of “self”. By dividing jobs into smaller parts, we removed any creativity and mastery from the process, making it no more than a means for survival. Being only a means for survival, those jobs would no longer help people feel like valuable members of their society. Fast forward to 2020 when Anne Case and Angus Deaton wrote their book Deaths of Despair. They looked at all of the proposed causes of the opioid/suicide problem and found that the data all pointed towards a breakdown in the dignity of the workplace. People, especially in manufacturing (hence why this primarily impacts males), felt as if they were no longer important producers in society. They are now mere cogs that can be replaced at a moment’s notice. This creates a void in their personal development. We’re taught that in order to be a good member of society you need to be productive, but if the only jobs available to you don’t give you that sense of productivity, then you’re going to be left feeling inadequate. This inadequacy manifests itself as depression, anger and pain, leading to higher suicide rates and drug use. I just find it fascinating to see a theory from the past be confirmed through scientific analysis. I think this is a very important discussion to be having and I appreciate Mr. Reeves writing about it. I’m interested in reading his book to see if there are any parallels with the work of Case and Deaton.
He tries to blow off the marriage thing to an extent. Even if everyone was to agree we need to chnahr current dynamics around work, marriage, raising kids etc. People who are married are still doing better even under the current conditions. We know that it's alot better for a couples kids to be married, especially boys.
The bit about the absence of a 'script' of what a successful life and how to get there for men is the keystone of the issue, as I see it. It's the slim minority that will innovate and blaze a new trail - most normal people will take the track laid out before them, and where there is no track, they're left adrift.
Yep, pretty much what I've come to realize. I appreciated extreme freedom and still do to an extent, but the average person doesn't even know what to do with it.
I am a 3 son mom whose sons currently range in age from 30-35, & along the way 2 Kenyan brothers became a part of our family. I have not read R. Reeves book but will definitely do so. Yes, I agree with the late start for boys but not due to intellect, but due to a lack of maturity and focus. I think that’s a more accurate reason why most parents make that decision. Our boys went to a public school K-5th then a private boys school 6-12th. The reason for the move was due to low expectations set for boys and the teaching style was designed for girls. Boys just learn differently, yet thrive in a holistic education. Ex if studying Japan, a model was made of the landscape, fiction writers were read, Japanese history was required, zen architecture, actually cooking Japanese food, and even mathematical tools and calculations. I am sure girls would enjoy all of this and benefit too. But boys need to have the opportunity to work with their hands and be able to get up and move around. To be able to dive into a subject in all areas. Boys need an environment that is structured with goals to strive in excellence, not only in academics, but sports and the arts too. And it’s the parents’ responsibility to create the love of learning in their home. Encourage them through love and faith, while guiding them to set their goals. Two books I recommend that are still relevant today: Raising Cain by Kindlon & Thompson and Real Boys by W. Pollock. I found great knowledge on raising young men from Focus on the Family as well. Fast forward to issues today, have you noticed how commercials portray men as fools. I agree that fathers should definitely have paternal leave just as the mothers. Sadly today, male traits are considered toxic. I do appreciate that our country is finally waking up to the harm our current culture is causing in young men. Thank you for this conversation and study on such an important topic.
We need to return to a culture where men and women pair off to work as teams. Rather than imagining that men and women compete with each other when married, we need to consider them part of the same team, and the massive benefits from that traditional arrangement.
Feminine and masculine complement each other. They inspire each other to notice different things, or to love different things to create balance. Masculine lifts up the feminine, to confidence and focus believing in herself, or sometimes she notices her own cofidence as the man inspires her confidfence by bringing his conmfidence and focus. Its nota bpout contzrol or man controlling the woman, but man inspires her to think differently in situations, and focus on some technical things. He lifts her up, ...she sometimes may forget her own confidence, because of her vulnerable feminine role. Feminine inspires the masculine to see beauty of small eastetic things. If both would think and feel the same, it would be one sided and not balance in society, They inspire each other. Maybe therefore estrogen and testosterone have different role, in mental state of people.
Men pay the price for women's choices to care for children. Men have to work more to support women and children, and women are granted the choice to stop work outside of the home to care for their children.
I once read a comment where a woman didn't know how to bring up the conversation of getting her husband to go back to work. I don't remember if he left work bc of the lock downs or if he left work because of depression hut he has remained out of work bc of depression. He watches after their child . She saids that him staying out of work was supposed to be temporarily but it's over a year or something. She saids that it has been hard on her especially the families budget because she makes less than he did.
@@chrislisenby2681 I think both you and I, and the woman you mention, believe the man in that story is a failure, and not living up to his responsibilities as a man. A woman, doing the same thing as that man, staying home and watching the child, wouldn't be failing in their responsibilities, and would be respected as a dutiful wife and mother. While there are certainly going to be exceptions to the rule, the pain that woman is going through, the difficulty that she's had because of her spouse not working, is what the majority of men supporting women deal with every day. We don't even praise these men for their sacrifice, much less pity them the way we might for a woman. For men, it is socially expected to support women, and the economic numbers bear this out - 80% of consumer decisions for spending are done by women, even if they don't actually make 80% of the money.
@@bodhisattva2348 Why not specialize to maximize efficiency? Why isn't it in women's interests to have a man earn money outside of the home, and then they get to spend the vast majority of that money? Men and women aren't in competition, they're in cooperation. And the rational choice is to cooperate in such a way that maximizes the well-being of the family.
I really appreciated the reference to the undercutting of the 'rent' of the educated white working class and challenges the question of thinking about economics only in terms of zero sum. That assumption and subsequent gate-keeping and rent seeking behavior really seems to be one of the most noticeable sea-anchors for the American economy particularly. We're busy worry about financializing everyting, meanwhile the real world generative economy has basically stalled and kept more and more people out of their full work/life capacity by refusing to move forward and refusing to share the benefits of growth. We're losing collectively.
I have noticed every time there is a video about men having issues, and I agree there are some issues. You end up with a very angry hateful common section. Some of you need to take personal responsibility.
I think that's what makes it so difficult to talk about it. Because on one hand we want to completely address the needs of men who have been given a horrible script for life but then it's followed by that's why women need to be barefoot pregnant and rely on men. I love this author says we can't go back to the previous times.
Jordan Peterson, Warren Farrell and other conservatives have been talking about this issue for many years and much more deeply. ua-cam.com/video/8AA1lR3CC4s/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/lAqCISsZEM4/v-deo.html But as soon as a perceived respectable left winger writes about this it becomes ok to talk about it and as if he has discovered something new.
Stop the confusion among Boys and Men developing a employment script is needed to end the Mass confusion among males educational success, employment goals and plans Family Life importance of becoming dad's .
In my opinion boys get the message from professional sports that muscles and athletic superiority outperform brain power in terms of financial compensations. Education system teaches but the society informs children as well. Too much focus on education to explain social issues may miss a good part of what goes on.
Him saying that the infrastructure bill gives jobs to random Joes and Michaels is funny because women will never in a million years even acknowledge that does men exist, let alone give them the time of day to try for a relationship, women if they marry, they tend to marry up
"heal professions health education Administration and literacy" I guess is a more liberal arts answer to STEM but that acronym needs to be worked on some more. What even is a literacy profession? Can it be replaced with Law?
The Mass confusion among Boys and Men is an serious issue of concern that needs to be addressed truthfully otherwise this situation will be worse Let's do something now ! 😊
Men will struggle more as they become more feminine and stop competing. I graduated from high school with a 2.2 went into the Marines got two masters degrees got on my grind and have all the money I need and a career I love. When men don’t grind… let nothing and no one stand in your way is lost then men struggle. If I listened to society I would not have what I have nor be where I am and you won’t either. Don’t be the Salmon be the bear. Every bit of our happiness is found within. The men who sit in the basement crying and saying wooo is me will never be happy nor successful.
This perspective is exactly why we are where we are and it's the common thread behind countless social and personal issues. No thanks. It doesn't work. Self-pity isn't the only alternative to 'grind and numb your way to happiness and success'.
Wow dude, good job offering zero systemic solutions to any of our socioeconomic issues, and then grandstanding about how awesome you are… Did you even know that 70% of people under 40 don’t qualify for military service anymore? So automatically 70% of people can’t take the path you took to get everything from healthcare to college for free, job preference, and a steep discount on a house. Did you know college is actually really expensive, and a masters degree will easily cost you about $90k today? When did you go to college? Did you have both parents? Did anyone depend on you? Did anyone near you ever get sick and you had to be there to take care of them? Do you even understand what it’s like to have responsibility for anything other than yourself? Your arrogance speaks volumes. Too bad the military and college skipped teaching you humility, perspective, or how to read statistics.
Anecdotally this grind attitude didn’t work for me. I have a traditional feminine personality. Im also not interested in competition. Im interested in development and cooperation. I moved from the oilfield to social work after the ‘grind-set’ stuff failed to bring sufficient meaning to my life. I can dig the John Henry mantras but it’s sometimes a square peg for a circle hole.
@@LightWthoutTheStatic In developed countries, from ages 18-35, there are around 5 percent more men than women. In 2018, 30 percent of men reported having no sex. All men would easily have sex. This problem was created by feminism and neoliberalism. Both modern version constructed mostly by jews.
Hannah Arendt predicted this issue in her book The Human Condition in 1958. The premise of the book was that automation and the distribution of labor would ultimately lead to alienation and atomization, with all of its social ills. She believed that work (creating something new), as opposed to labor (doing what it takes to survive), was an important part of developing our notion of “self”. By dividing jobs into smaller parts, we removed any creativity and mastery from the process, making it no more than a means for survival. Being only a means for survival, those jobs would no longer help people feel like valuable members of their society.
Fast forward to 2020 when Anne Case and Angus Deaton wrote their book Deaths of Despair. They looked at all of the proposed causes of the opioid/suicide problem and found that the data all pointed towards a breakdown in the dignity of the workplace. People, especially in manufacturing (hence why this primarily impacts males), felt as if they were no longer important producers in society. They are now mere cogs that can be replaced at a moment’s notice. This creates a void in their personal development. We’re taught that in order to be a good member of society you need to be productive, but if the only jobs available to you don’t give you that sense of productivity, then you’re going to be left feeling inadequate. This inadequacy manifests itself as depression, anger and pain, leading to higher suicide rates and drug use.
I just find it fascinating to see a theory from the past be confirmed through scientific analysis. I think this is a very important discussion to be having and I appreciate Mr. Reeves writing about it. I’m interested in reading his book to see if there are any parallels with the work of Case and Deaton.
go watch charlie chaplin's film 'modern times' ...
He tries to blow off the marriage thing to an extent. Even if everyone was to agree we need to chnahr current dynamics around work, marriage, raising kids etc. People who are married are still doing better even under the current conditions. We know that it's alot better for a couples kids to be married, especially boys.
The bit about the absence of a 'script' of what a successful life and how to get there for men is the keystone of the issue, as I see it. It's the slim minority that will innovate and blaze a new trail - most normal people will take the track laid out before them, and where there is no track, they're left adrift.
Yep, pretty much what I've come to realize. I appreciated extreme freedom and still do to an extent, but the average person doesn't even know what to do with it.
Fantastic and important topic! If you want a better world, then we need to address what's going on with men. Thanks for the conversation.
There's nothing you can or will do. This was planned in the 60s with depopulation and feminism.
I am a 3 son mom whose sons currently range in age from 30-35, & along the way 2 Kenyan brothers became a part of our family. I have not read R. Reeves book but will definitely do so. Yes, I agree with the late start for boys but not due to intellect, but due to a lack of maturity and focus. I think that’s a more accurate reason why most parents make that decision. Our boys went to a public school K-5th then a private boys school 6-12th. The reason for the move was due to low expectations set for boys and the teaching style was designed for girls. Boys just learn differently, yet thrive in a holistic education. Ex if studying Japan, a model was made of the landscape, fiction writers were read, Japanese history was required, zen architecture, actually cooking Japanese food, and even mathematical tools and calculations. I am sure girls would enjoy all of this and benefit too. But boys need to have the opportunity to work with their hands and be able to get up and move around. To be able to dive into a subject in all areas. Boys need an environment that is structured with goals to strive in excellence, not only in academics, but sports and the arts too. And it’s the parents’ responsibility to create the love of learning in their home. Encourage them through love and faith, while guiding them to set their goals. Two books I recommend that are still relevant today: Raising Cain by Kindlon & Thompson and Real Boys by W. Pollock. I found great knowledge on raising young men from Focus on the Family as well. Fast forward to issues today, have you noticed how commercials portray men as fools. I agree that fathers should definitely have paternal leave just as the mothers. Sadly today, male traits are considered toxic. I do appreciate that our country is finally waking up to the harm our current culture is causing in young men. Thank you for this conversation and study on such an important topic.
We need to return to a culture where men and women pair off to work as teams. Rather than imagining that men and women compete with each other when married, we need to consider them part of the same team, and the massive benefits from that traditional arrangement.
nobody is part of a team anymore, everyone is an individual
Abolish Title IX
Yes because going beyond the traditional family and creating all new cultural institutions should be no problem!
Feminine and masculine complement each other.
They inspire each other to notice different things, or to love different things to create balance.
Masculine lifts up the feminine, to confidence and focus believing in herself, or sometimes
she notices her own cofidence as the man inspires her confidfence by bringing his conmfidence and focus.
Its nota bpout contzrol or man controlling the woman,
but man inspires her to think differently in situations, and focus on some technical things.
He lifts her up, ...she sometimes may forget her own confidence, because of her vulnerable feminine role.
Feminine inspires the masculine to see beauty of small eastetic things.
If both would think and feel the same, it would be one sided and not balance in society,
They inspire each other. Maybe therefore estrogen and testosterone have different role, in mental state of people.
Richard Reeves broke out the 2003 logitech cam for this interview! 320x200!
Men pay the price for women's choices to care for children. Men have to work more to support women and children, and women are granted the choice to stop work outside of the home to care for their children.
I once read a comment where a woman didn't know how to bring up the conversation of getting her husband to go back to work. I don't remember if he left work bc of the lock downs or if he left work because of depression hut he has remained out of work bc of depression. He watches after their child . She saids that him staying out of work was supposed to be temporarily but it's over a year or something. She saids that it has been hard on her especially the families budget because she makes less than he did.
@@chrislisenby2681 I think both you and I, and the woman you mention, believe the man in that story is a failure, and not living up to his responsibilities as a man.
A woman, doing the same thing as that man, staying home and watching the child, wouldn't be failing in their responsibilities, and would be respected as a dutiful wife and mother.
While there are certainly going to be exceptions to the rule, the pain that woman is going through, the difficulty that she's had because of her spouse not working, is what the majority of men supporting women deal with every day. We don't even praise these men for their sacrifice, much less pity them the way we might for a woman. For men, it is socially expected to support women, and the economic numbers bear this out - 80% of consumer decisions for spending are done by women, even if they don't actually make 80% of the money.
Then split the bills and the chores
@@bodhisattva2348 Why not specialize to maximize efficiency? Why isn't it in women's interests to have a man earn money outside of the home, and then they get to spend the vast majority of that money?
Men and women aren't in competition, they're in cooperation. And the rational choice is to cooperate in such a way that maximizes the well-being of the family.
@JereKrischel what the hell are u talking about. U asked a question I gave u a simple solution, if u can't do that then stay single.
I really appreciated the reference to the undercutting of the 'rent' of the educated white working class and challenges the question of thinking about economics only in terms of zero sum. That assumption and subsequent gate-keeping and rent seeking behavior really seems to be one of the most noticeable sea-anchors for the American economy particularly. We're busy worry about financializing everyting, meanwhile the real world generative economy has basically stalled and kept more and more people out of their full work/life capacity by refusing to move forward and refusing to share the benefits of growth. We're losing collectively.
Yes
We need to stop paying taxes
I get angry evertime I think about the overpaid email class while I slave away for barely enough to pay rent.
I have noticed every time there is a video about men having issues, and I agree there are some issues. You end up with a very angry hateful common section. Some of you need to take personal responsibility.
I think that's what makes it so difficult to talk about it. Because on one hand we want to completely address the needs of men who have been given a horrible script for life but then it's followed by that's why women need to be barefoot pregnant and rely on men. I love this author says we can't go back to the previous times.
this guy is obviously well read. he even says so!
Jordan Peterson, Warren Farrell and other conservatives have been talking about this issue for many years and much more deeply.
ua-cam.com/video/8AA1lR3CC4s/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/lAqCISsZEM4/v-deo.html
But as soon as a perceived respectable left winger writes about this it becomes ok to talk about it and as if he has discovered something new.
Stop the confusion among Boys and Men developing a employment script is needed to end the Mass confusion among males educational success, employment goals and plans Family Life importance of becoming dad's .
They have not
Also we need to start having fathers raise our sons instead of single moms
Wait, biological sex is real?
This is the question I've been asking my whole life ;)
In my opinion boys get the message from professional sports that muscles and athletic superiority outperform brain power in terms of financial compensations. Education system teaches but the society informs children as well. Too much focus on education to explain social issues may miss a good part of what goes on.
Him saying that the infrastructure bill gives jobs to random Joes and Michaels is funny because women will never in a million years even acknowledge that does men exist, let alone give them the time of day to try for a relationship, women if they marry, they tend to marry up
Feminism created by the jewish frankfurt school.
"heal professions health education Administration and literacy" I guess is a more liberal arts answer to STEM but that acronym needs to be worked on some more. What even is a literacy profession? Can it be replaced with Law?
The Mass confusion among Boys and Men is an serious issue of concern that needs to be addressed truthfully otherwise this situation will be worse Let's do something now ! 😊
It's a shame that Marshall is so whipped that he needs his fiancée to approve his questions to "not get in trouble"
Men will struggle more as they become more feminine and stop competing. I graduated from high school with a 2.2 went into the Marines got two masters degrees got on my grind and have all the money I need and a career I love. When men don’t grind… let nothing and no one stand in your way is lost then men struggle. If I listened to society I would not have what I have nor be where I am and you won’t either. Don’t be the Salmon be the bear. Every bit of our happiness is found within. The men who sit in the basement crying and saying wooo is me will never be happy nor successful.
This perspective is exactly why we are where we are and it's the common thread behind countless social and personal issues. No thanks. It doesn't work. Self-pity isn't the only alternative to 'grind and numb your way to happiness and success'.
Wow dude, good job offering zero systemic solutions to any of our socioeconomic issues, and then grandstanding about how awesome you are…
Did you even know that 70% of people under 40 don’t qualify for military service anymore? So automatically 70% of people can’t take the path you took to get everything from healthcare to college for free, job preference, and a steep discount on a house. Did you know college is actually really expensive, and a masters degree will easily cost you about $90k today? When did you go to college? Did you have both parents? Did anyone depend on you? Did anyone near you ever get sick and you had to be there to take care of them? Do you even understand what it’s like to have responsibility for anything other than yourself?
Your arrogance speaks volumes. Too bad the military and college skipped teaching you humility, perspective, or how to read statistics.
Anecdotally this grind attitude didn’t work for me.
I have a traditional feminine personality. Im also not interested in competition. Im interested in development and cooperation. I moved from the oilfield to social work after the ‘grind-set’ stuff failed to bring sufficient meaning to my life.
I can dig the John Henry mantras but it’s sometimes a square peg for a circle hole.
@@LightWthoutTheStatic In developed countries, from ages 18-35, there are around 5 percent more men than women. In 2018, 30 percent of men reported having no sex. All men would easily have sex. This problem was created by feminism and neoliberalism. Both modern version constructed mostly by jews.
@@allenhooper8532 Good for you! I love your comment
Yeah well let's see what those politicians and activists feel about it if you don't single out black boys.
Gamers rise up
gamers are losers so good luck with that
Simple men should stop paying taxes until our needs are met
Boys and men don't get their needs met you're going to be in a world of hurt
#31v