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A cane can provide a practical defense against a knife, by making use of its range. I saw a great demonstration of the authentic use of canes in Japan during the Meiji era, at the cultural center sponsored by the Japanese Embassy in DC. One thing I took away from it was to never underestimate the effectiveness of a thrust with a hard-tipped cane. And it reminded me of how the Jo is thrust in Aikido.
I've adopted cane work into my curriculum to replace most of the weapons work. It is practical and effective and the students enjoy it. I don't refer to it as hanbo because the influences I use are HEMA and Irish stick fighting. There is likely some cross over of useful techniques, but I prefer to avoid any hint of stolen lineage. :-)
The weapons are integral and benefit aikido's image and reputation, if you know what you are doing. Back in the day Aikido was taught with weapons integrated, not as a separate class. We did lots of nice and gentle work, and weapons katas, just a little randori, no sparring. It still worked. I was 'peer pressured' into a duel with a former army infantryman, who did kendo. He didn't know what hit him, and was beaten soundly. It took him two months of dedicated practice for him to beat me in a second match. All the technique I knew was aiki-kengi 1. However I was taught proper timing. The katas teach efficient technique, and the disarms and such teach angles, distance, and footwork based on the efficient technique. This allows the same basics to be used for many things. This allows you some fudge room, as you can change your application, without changing the gross movements. Decades later, in weapons I have beaten nearly everyone who has stood before me since, including groups, with no sparring or further training. The knowledge that your lineage seems to have lost is THE TIMING, this is likely most easily demonstrated and learned with weapons. Apply the proper timing, and you will come to understanding. The timing is the same weapons timing as used in the Chinese Internal arts. Contemplate the familiar aiki dojo concepts 'sincerity', 'on contact', 'control the first move', 'it comes on fast', 'step aside and cut immediately'. Make your move when the enemy makes his. He gets the physical initiative (ideally you are already have awareness), as the attacker, but this is made up for by the efficient technique of the defender. I could show you this in just a few minutes.
I’m looking forward to listening to this one later on in the day. I’m in deep need of a video I can link to the “Aikido weapons is the ‘key’ “ type comments I receive over on my channel. Glad you made it so I don’t have to lol
38:00 It is a strong foundation of kata practice that ingrains the kinds of skills you are talking about. Body mechanics, timing, distance, etc. It's not just Japanese koryu but also your knife based arts like Kali / Escrima etc, they have pattern drills that they practice over and over for years to build those skills. Sparring and similar contested improvisational drills are for different things and they are useless without that foundation to build on. FWIW the kata can be good or they can be bad but that's a tangental conversation.
I've heard it said, and experienced some of this myself in my training, that the point of the aikiken and aikijo practice is not weapon's fighting proficiency but, as both a solo practice and also in partner practice, to train the fundamentals of aikido into the body; hanmi/stance, judging distance and timing, foot work, shifting weight, spatial awareness/zanshin, etc... The ken being predominantly used to hone the forward projection of power and the jo to practice freedom of movement, both while maintaining stability and posture. Thoughts?
that's true, and it's also true that hanmi/stance, judging distance and timing, foot work, shifting weight, spatial awareness/zanshin make one proficient in weapons fighting.
Sword disarms are fairly plausible if you also have a sword, it's a great source of leverage. Its of course a dumb thing to do in a sword fight because hitting or stabbing is almost always safer but it's doable and happens if rarely in competitive longsword tournaments. Unarmed vs a sword you're fucked tho. Will also say that you really don't want to incorporate a blunt rigid stick like a Jo with thrusting in live sparring , even with a fencing mask if there's no bending in the stick a head thrust will lead to concussions and neck injuries.
I actually dont think the knife work is that bad, if you view it for what it is. I've used a few aikido knife defense techniques a few times IRL. If you view it as beginner/introduction drills to knife, then it's fine. If you want advanced level training, definitely insert training from specialists like FMA etc. But you can build on your aikido knife training. Better than arts that don't train at all. Low bar, lol, but imagine a BJJ or grappler or striker who has no training at all. It's still a positive advantage from base level 0. lol. I agree there's room to improve, but you don't have to throw it away. Just build on it, I can attest you can use it IRL. People don't get attacked by knife experts, it's usually a broad stabbing in the heat of the moment. I say don't over think it when it comes to practicality. Katana I feel the same way, it's a good introduction to the sword, and to advance your knowledge you get into koryu or iaido to deepen it. That's a pretty common practice with instructors I know. All you simply have to do is spar with the katana and you'll see how relevant the work can be. I also think these schools who are hating on Aikido are a bit bitter than Aikido took over the popularity of sword work and gutted the student base of koryu's. They are even less popular than Aikido. I have sparred with some Kendo friends, and it was still useful even in kendo practice. It's not that bad, just beginner level. Have also disarmed people with extended weapons similar to katana length IRL, you just need to practice them in your training as jiyu waza or randori to find the use and be more confident on what it is and what it isn't. Also, please remember there is recorded interactions with sword masters challenging O-sensei and getting mopped on the floor. Lots of Aikido/Daito Ryu scholars are acknowledging that the style had more sword work during the Edo period but was not focused on during the Meiji era because sword work became unpopular because of the westernization of the martial arts. But the coals are there. We simply have to break from the routine and play/spar with movement again. Time to bring back more unscripted practice both empty handed and with weapons. With the Jo I think you're onto something, if you look at the legend/history of the person who created the style of fighting with the Jo, Musō Gonnosuke Katsuyoshi, he was actually versed in traditional samurai weapons including the spear and shortened up his bo to be slightly longer than a katana while also using spear techniques to counter. Whether this is true or not, or just legend, I think it makes sense to view the Jo as a potential spear. In fact, we've trained with spears in class before and the movement is amazingly similar to jo practice. So again not all lost, and enough to build on for some solid training. Have sparred with Jo as a jo or jo as a spear, and it can still hold up. Again, this goes back to training methods v techniques repetition. Are you sparring with your curriculum? Are we getting training feedback and adjusting focus. If not, get on that ish! lol. Start with some simple flow drills and build up to full sparring. To me it's an easy resolve and students WANT to get to a level of sparring, they want to know if it works unscripted. Reasonable ask, and as instructors we should give it to them. Can be in smal bites if needed. I do like your view on adapting old school traditions to modern context, but I think this is more about curriculum path. Do we start with modern methods and go into the old methods, and show the connection? Or do we go old methods and move into modern methods to show connection? I'm torn on this as dojo cho to my own school and designing my own curriculum. I'm leaning to introducing Aikido in a modern attack/weapons context to make it more relatable, then segway into old school methods to show the through line. As a person who studied Japanese culture before doing Aikido, I also like how it introduces a western audience to Japanese traditions, even if it's a romanticized version of it. I think that's ok as long as we bring context on why it still matters. I also still think when it come to Aikido we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Especially for those of us who have had successfully used Aikido IRL, we know the kernels of truth that come out that are unique to Aikido and those that are general to martial arts. As you and Tengu said, you are going to have to make changes by codifying improved training methods into your dojo/curriculum. Don't make it a side piece of keiko, learn to embed it in your daily practice. And especially sparring, spar at least once a month if not once a week. Add it into rank requirements. Only way it's gonna stick. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Tachidori (defense against the sword) is not about learning to defend unarmed vs a sword. It’s a physical representation of the fundamental principle underlying all budo: the opponent is stronger than you, and that’s why you can’t to force vs force. Because you will lose every time. The sad thing is that it’s usually not explained..
Tachidori (defense against the sword) is not about learning to defend unarmed vs a sword. It’s a physical representation of the fundamental principle underlying all budo: the enemy is stronger and you, and that’s why you can’t to force vs force. Because you will lose every time. The sad thing is that it’s usually not explained..
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A cane can provide a practical defense against a knife, by making use of its range.
I saw a great demonstration of the authentic use of canes in Japan during the Meiji era, at the cultural center sponsored by the Japanese Embassy in DC. One thing I took away from it was to never underestimate the effectiveness of a thrust with a hard-tipped cane. And it reminded me of how the Jo is thrust in Aikido.
I've adopted cane work into my curriculum to replace most of the weapons work. It is practical and effective and the students enjoy it. I don't refer to it as hanbo because the influences I use are HEMA and Irish stick fighting. There is likely some cross over of useful techniques, but I prefer to avoid any hint of stolen lineage. :-)
The weapons are integral and benefit aikido's image and reputation, if you know what you are doing. Back in the day Aikido was taught with weapons integrated, not as a separate class. We did lots of nice and gentle work, and weapons katas, just a little randori, no sparring. It still worked. I was 'peer pressured' into a duel with a former army infantryman, who did kendo. He didn't know what hit him, and was beaten soundly. It took him two months of dedicated practice for him to beat me in a second match. All the technique I knew was aiki-kengi 1. However I was taught proper timing. The katas teach efficient technique, and the disarms and such teach angles, distance, and footwork based on the efficient technique. This allows the same basics to be used for many things. This allows you some fudge room, as you can change your application, without changing the gross movements. Decades later, in weapons I have beaten nearly everyone who has stood before me since, including groups, with no sparring or further training. The knowledge that your lineage seems to have lost is THE TIMING, this is likely most easily demonstrated and learned with weapons. Apply the proper timing, and you will come to understanding. The timing is the same weapons timing as used in the Chinese Internal arts. Contemplate the familiar aiki dojo concepts 'sincerity', 'on contact', 'control the first move', 'it comes on fast', 'step aside and cut immediately'. Make your move when the enemy makes his. He gets the physical initiative (ideally you are already have awareness), as the attacker, but this is made up for by the efficient technique of the defender. I could show you this in just a few minutes.
I’m looking forward to listening to this one later on in the day.
I’m in deep need of a video I can link to the “Aikido weapons is the ‘key’ “ type comments I receive over on my channel. Glad you made it so I don’t have to lol
38:00 It is a strong foundation of kata practice that ingrains the kinds of skills you are talking about. Body mechanics, timing, distance, etc. It's not just Japanese koryu but also your knife based arts like Kali / Escrima etc, they have pattern drills that they practice over and over for years to build those skills. Sparring and similar contested improvisational drills are for different things and they are useless without that foundation to build on. FWIW the kata can be good or they can be bad but that's a tangental conversation.
Bad thing is late here in Europe, I will have to watch this tomorrow after work. Looking forward to it.
I've heard it said, and experienced some of this myself in my training, that the point of the aikiken and aikijo practice is not weapon's fighting proficiency but, as both a solo practice and also in partner practice, to train the fundamentals of aikido into the body; hanmi/stance, judging distance and timing, foot work, shifting weight, spatial awareness/zanshin, etc... The ken being predominantly used to hone the forward projection of power and the jo to practice freedom of movement, both while maintaining stability and posture. Thoughts?
that's true, and it's also true that hanmi/stance, judging distance and timing, foot work, shifting weight, spatial awareness/zanshin make one proficient in weapons fighting.
glad to see you're back
Sword disarms are fairly plausible if you also have a sword, it's a great source of leverage. Its of course a dumb thing to do in a sword fight because hitting or stabbing is almost always safer but it's doable and happens if rarely in competitive longsword tournaments. Unarmed vs a sword you're fucked tho.
Will also say that you really don't want to incorporate a blunt rigid stick like a Jo with thrusting in live sparring , even with a fencing mask if there's no bending in the stick a head thrust will lead to concussions and neck injuries.
I actually dont think the knife work is that bad, if you view it for what it is. I've used a few aikido knife defense techniques a few times IRL. If you view it as beginner/introduction drills to knife, then it's fine. If you want advanced level training, definitely insert training from specialists like FMA etc. But you can build on your aikido knife training. Better than arts that don't train at all. Low bar, lol, but imagine a BJJ or grappler or striker who has no training at all. It's still a positive advantage from base level 0. lol. I agree there's room to improve, but you don't have to throw it away. Just build on it, I can attest you can use it IRL. People don't get attacked by knife experts, it's usually a broad stabbing in the heat of the moment. I say don't over think it when it comes to practicality.
Katana I feel the same way, it's a good introduction to the sword, and to advance your knowledge you get into koryu or iaido to deepen it. That's a pretty common practice with instructors I know. All you simply have to do is spar with the katana and you'll see how relevant the work can be. I also think these schools who are hating on Aikido are a bit bitter than Aikido took over the popularity of sword work and gutted the student base of koryu's. They are even less popular than Aikido. I have sparred with some Kendo friends, and it was still useful even in kendo practice. It's not that bad, just beginner level. Have also disarmed people with extended weapons similar to katana length IRL, you just need to practice them in your training as jiyu waza or randori to find the use and be more confident on what it is and what it isn't. Also, please remember there is recorded interactions with sword masters challenging O-sensei and getting mopped on the floor. Lots of Aikido/Daito Ryu scholars are acknowledging that the style had more sword work during the Edo period but was not focused on during the Meiji era because sword work became unpopular because of the westernization of the martial arts. But the coals are there. We simply have to break from the routine and play/spar with movement again. Time to bring back more unscripted practice both empty handed and with weapons.
With the Jo I think you're onto something, if you look at the legend/history of the person who created the style of fighting with the Jo, Musō Gonnosuke Katsuyoshi, he was actually versed in traditional samurai weapons including the spear and shortened up his bo to be slightly longer than a katana while also using spear techniques to counter. Whether this is true or not, or just legend, I think it makes sense to view the Jo as a potential spear. In fact, we've trained with spears in class before and the movement is amazingly similar to jo practice. So again not all lost, and enough to build on for some solid training. Have sparred with Jo as a jo or jo as a spear, and it can still hold up. Again, this goes back to training methods v techniques repetition. Are you sparring with your curriculum? Are we getting training feedback and adjusting focus. If not, get on that ish! lol. Start with some simple flow drills and build up to full sparring. To me it's an easy resolve and students WANT to get to a level of sparring, they want to know if it works unscripted. Reasonable ask, and as instructors we should give it to them. Can be in smal bites if needed.
I do like your view on adapting old school traditions to modern context, but I think this is more about curriculum path. Do we start with modern methods and go into the old methods, and show the connection? Or do we go old methods and move into modern methods to show connection? I'm torn on this as dojo cho to my own school and designing my own curriculum. I'm leaning to introducing Aikido in a modern attack/weapons context to make it more relatable, then segway into old school methods to show the through line. As a person who studied Japanese culture before doing Aikido, I also like how it introduces a western audience to Japanese traditions, even if it's a romanticized version of it. I think that's ok as long as we bring context on why it still matters.
I also still think when it come to Aikido we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Especially for those of us who have had successfully used Aikido IRL, we know the kernels of truth that come out that are unique to Aikido and those that are general to martial arts. As you and Tengu said, you are going to have to make changes by codifying improved training methods into your dojo/curriculum. Don't make it a side piece of keiko, learn to embed it in your daily practice. And especially sparring, spar at least once a month if not once a week. Add it into rank requirements. Only way it's gonna stick. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Tachidori (defense against the sword) is not about learning to defend unarmed vs a sword. It’s a physical representation of the fundamental principle underlying all budo: the opponent is stronger than you, and that’s why you can’t to force vs force. Because you will lose every time.
The sad thing is that it’s usually not explained..
I've found that explanation is very common, but is an unsatisfactory justification and excuse.
No.
Tachidori (defense against the sword) is not about learning to defend unarmed vs a sword. It’s a physical representation of the fundamental principle underlying all budo: the enemy is stronger and you, and that’s why you can’t to force vs force. Because you will lose every time.
The sad thing is that it’s usually not explained..