His Dark Materials || the controversy
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Hi everyone - here I look at His Dark Materials and some of the controversy surrounding this fantasy trilogy.
Interesting read:
His Controversial Materials: Philip Pullman and Religious Narrative Identity, by Jessica Garrahy core.ac.uk/download/pdf/22942...
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MY SCI-FI NOVELS
linktr.ee/bookodyssey
DELPHINE DESCENDS -
After her family is killed and her homeworld occupied, young Kathreen Martin is sent to the distant world of Furoris for re-education. She will live the rest of her life as a serf - to be bought and sold as a commodity of the Imperial Network.
When her only chance of escape is ruined, a chance mistaken identity offers her a new life as the orphaned daughter of a First-Citizen Senator and heiress to a vast fortune.
She vows to claw her way into power to sit among the worlds’ elite. Then, with her own hands, she will reap bloody vengeance on them all.
But, to beat them she must play their game. She must become worse than them all.
BLACK MILK -
Prometheus has the chance to bring his wife back from the dead, but doing so will mean the destruction of Earth.Spanning time, planets and dimensions, Black Milk draws to a climactic point in a post-apocalyptic future, where humanity, stranded with no planet to call home, fights to survive against a post-human digital entity that pursues them through the depths of space.Five lives separated by aeons are inextricably linked by Prometheus’s actions:
Ystil.3 is an AI unit sent back in time from the distant future to investigate Prometheus’s discovery...
The mysterious Lydia has devoted her life to finding a planet that the last remaining humans can call home…
Tom Jones (he’s a HUGE fan!) is an AI trapped inside a digital subspace, lost and desperate to find his way back to his beloved in real-time…
Dr Norma Stanwyck is a neuroscientist from 24th Century Earth whose personal choices ripple throughout time...
Prometheus must learn the necessity of death or the entire universe will be swallowed by his grief.
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When I read the first two books of the series I was confused why it was considered so "controversial". You can find more critique of any organised religion by simply learning history. Even as a Catholic I didn't feel offended
Then I read the third one
The third one put into my brain a very distracting thought: The only reason why I believe in the allmighty God is because there's a book claiming He exists. How can I be sure that this another book depicting Him as pitful and weak is not wrong?
Long story short the series didn't turn me into an atheist but exposed how superficial my faith truly was. If you're afraid of the books then maybe, just maybe, you have the same problem
I mean the whole thing with the Bible being a book that proves Gods existance and another book - His Dark Materials proving he's evil and pitiful is kind of fundamentally wrong. In Christian belief Bible is not proof of Gods existance, it's an account. According to St. Tomas the proof of God (amongst other things)is that there's good in the world and the source of it (the best of good) is God. Plus there's often talk of the Devil discuising himself as something good. All I'm trying to say is that paradoxically, and inspite of Pullmans intentions his work and the Christian philosophy are not mutually exclusive, or don't have to be interpreted as such.
@@juma8126 Ikr. There is no proof of anything other than a book written by a guy who probably ate the wrong mushrooms
@@bobobobo5924 Or maybe... it was the RIGHT mushrooms...
Actually, that "book" is an account of people who had a relationship with God. A relationship that is still available today. It's true that a large fraction of the church has misrepresented Christianity. But Christianity at it's core is a relationship with God made possible by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is, a proven medical and historical fact. Lee Strobel in his work on the case for Christ details the evidence of the validity of Christ inside and outside the Bible. And that evidence when analyzed with sincerity proves indeed that Christ died and resurrected. And if that's true, then the whole Bible is true
@@juma8126 the bible is a fantasy, that only humans on earth believe in, extraterrestrial life outside of earth will most likely not share the same religious views. There is no cosmic religion that will ever answer to prove or disprove GOD. There fore it is pointless to follow.
Controversial ideas need to be discussed in an open air of respectful dialogue. Censorship sweeps away the ability for opposing sides to agree to disagree or understand either faction's viewpoint. Art must be kept free otherwise it loses its vitality, its heart. Take care Darrel.
but... reality reflects the books in this way: One side doesn't have faith or conviction in the correctness of their own arguments. If you read the books and didn't understand this, I think Pullman would consider that a failure. The outspoken, vocal leaders of Christian faith are afraid of open dialogue, because they at least fear, if not truly believe, that dialogue will reveal their side to be false. I understand why "Book Odyssey" loves your comment and in another context, I too would applaud it, too. But you're judging the two sides here to be equal, allowing people to make a choice between two sides that have moral equivalency. The book of Genesis, and the story of Eden in particular. are bullshit. It is used to brainwash people. They, whether it be Christian Evangelicals or priests of the Catholic hierarchy, aren't going to let people "discuss in an open air" anything! That's the point! That's the whole point!
Agree 10000000% with you.
@@squirlmy Exactly. The same is true of zealous socialists/statists. The fanatical just shuffle their Gods as is fashionable.
There was an older Catholic priest who did a piece on the books around the time the Hollywood film was being released. His conclusion was basically: the criticisms of the Church presented in the story are not new, in fact, they are quite common. It is better that, rather than ban them for your children outright, you read along with them and use the books as teaching tools. If I can find the video again, I'll be sure to link it. I've always preferred this priest's approach
Did you find the video?
Ooo I would love to see it if you have the link
He recognised these criticism weren’t new. Yet probably didn’t see that the criticisms were completely justified.
@@edwardm1326 yep, just because they’re not original doesn’t mean they’re not without substance.
Priests can be wrong as well. Children have a limited amount time to learn and be formed so giving them a book that actively goes against what their parents are educating them in, is a no brainer. Let them read it later when they are older.
Book gets banned by the Vatican: goes to the top of my reading list.
Same
Series as well, random catholic fanatics signing petition- my reason for watching Lucifer
10/10- would recommend (this strategy)
His Dark Materials: The Church silences all alternative thoughts, oppresses diversity and dictates how a person should think
The Vatican Church: The Church in His Dark materials is nothing like our religion...lets try and censor, ban and create controversy surrounding it....
On a side note: I went to Christian Primary School and we were read this during "storytime". We then had a discussion on what we thought the book's messages were and tossed ideas back and forth.
THAT is how you convert children. You dont tell them what not to think, you inspire them to think for themselves.
Raised catholic, publicly schooled, was 'accidentally' Saved @ Evangelical Bible Camp in '73 as I grew up across the street from a tiny, Giant Baptist Church. Chose to believe to Believe even though some may see me as a blasphemous Hybrid. Faith is Faith, you have it or you don't & the Catholic Church can go *uck a duck with their 'Holier than Thou' B.S. & archive of riches. Simple, do unto others as you wish other to do unto you. Bible camp was a blast being 'Citified' & the film, 'The Rapture' during that week may had been someone's propaganda but it has stuck with me ever since & not in a frightening manner as some would hope. An open mind is the key. Peace & Blessings to ALL, Especially now, 10-4. I hope 'His Dark Materials' subsequent episodes & seasons will take it's continuity into account & not try to smash it into completion, less is more over a greater duration. Lindelof did a superb job on Watchman & a 2nd season would destroy it's 'truism'. It's historical significance opened many eyes & minds....Amber Spyglass & Book of Dust will hopefully get the time & treatment it deserves......
Tom Hubbard - Precisely so !
This is a good introduction to 'His dark materials'. Everyone reading the books or watching the series in 2020 should watch your introduction, it explains why those books are so important and why the stuff represented in the fantasy series is much more than just light entertainment.
Your not kidding
Never heard of a controversy about the books in mainland europe
Controversy was only in the US really. In the UK the books and the stage play were already extremely popular and was already part of popular culture by the time the movie came out so not really any controversy anywhere in Europe.
Very true.
Same, the books aren’t considered controversial here in Austria.
@@Rik77 I wonder how the TV series is being received in the US.
@@MG-bs5mr I suspect it has niche appeal on HBO anyway.
Honestly i had absolutely no idea that Pullman was atheist. There is something to be said about his view on “Christian Hierarchy” though. Once there are high positions it does become about power. We see if all the time with the Catholic Church and the Vatican. As a stand alone Christian (I don’t claim any denomination or church) I don’t believe that God ever intended for there to be something like the Catholic Church. Simply because our relationship with God is our own. It’s not to be meddled with by people who believe they have more power. The pope and other priests are just people. Power means nothing once we’re dead.
This.
Yeah. Now tell that to Evangelicals, Baptists, ect. ect.
@Beka Z You will help usher humanity to a healthier state of being..
Well said !
So youre more of a reformed Christian than a catholic
I never saw it as “Christianity Bad” but rather as “Religion as a government is bad”. I really like the whole concept of the Magisterium because I’ve always been fascinated by the political intrigue of the church from the Renaissance and Baroque period.
I think Philip Pullman said that it was about the evil of organised religion and what organised religion makes people do opposed to what it should do
@@robertpetre9378 Organized religion = All Religions
@@jeffmattel7867 not all religions are organized, some don’t even have a governing body or a binding holy book.
I liked both the Chronicles of Narnia and His Dark Materials. They are both works of high value to me.
Ditto.
One is for Christians, the other for atheists.
@@stephenking5852 One is for children, one is for everyone.
@@jamesb7924 according to the author himself, he didn’t write the books with any intended target audience in mind.
@@jamesb7924 That's the problem with atheists-they sound exactly like old-school bible bashers, without the wit or intelligence to see past their absurdly simplistic worldview.
A really excellent summary of the themes of HDM. Although, Pulman may be described as the "anti-Lewis" I have read both HDM and the Narnia books with great pleasure. The Narnia books when I was a child and HSM in middle age. Lewis was trying to proselytise for Christianity but it had no effect on me. Of course I recognised it but I found plenty of other pleasures in his imaginative universe without being strongly influenced by the religious themes, which are scarcely subtle. I can still read Lewis now as a confirmed agnostic/atheist (I take Laplace's position of the unnecessity of God). I find HDM are far more compelling series of books and consider the BBC adaptation to be excellent.
I encountered Narnia in late adolescence, as a Roman Catholic already beginning to doubt. Its fantasy was marred by the Anglican preaching. (Read his Space Trilogy at the same time. The same problems clogging up "adult" fantasy.)
I can see countering Lewis, but these books are just more propaganda.
Tolkien certainly had beliefs. But he just told his stories.
Ironically, I took away a different message from Narnia than what was attended. I saw it as it doesn't matter who you worship as long as you're a decent person. For example, like that guy who worshipped Tash but got into 'heaven'.
@Teekoness that's how i felt too, which makes (SPOILERS) Susan's fate easier to swallow in my opinion. She'll still go to the "true narnia" it will just take a bit longer
The fact that they tried to ban it only makes me want to read them even more, as this only impacts them as being more important than ever as instruments of questions and free thinking.👌🏼
Definitely going to ready the whole series now, once I’ve gotten through the rest of my backlog that is. 😆
A long time ago when the Golden Compass movie came out, my grandmother was VERY against it because "the author is an atheist." I saw the movie, was confused as to why that mattered, and didn't understand the symbolism until now, so thank you for explaining it.
A lot was stripped out to even make the movie.
Yeah also the true anti-religion things don’t really shine through until the third book
As much as I always loyally and somewhat stubbornly refer to the 1st book as Northern Lights, calling it The Golden Compass would fir more with the other 2 books, so each book would be named after a "magical" instrument
Partly true, but the Alethiometer isn't actually what was intended by the title 'The Golden Compass', which was supposed to be 'The Golden Compasses'. It's actually a reference to the poem Paradise Lost, just like the overall title of 'His Dark Materials'.
Then staid the fervid wheels, and in his hand
He took the GOLDEN COMPASSES, prepared
In God's eternal store, to circumscribe
This universe, and all created things:
One foot he centred, and the other turned
Round through the vast profundity obscure...
- Paradise Lost, Book 7, lines 224-229
I appreciate how they pretend christianity is something every child has to be raised with, as if it's a "default". I'm pretty sure we call that indoctrination? Just raise them with some science and then let them choose what they believe. There's not "propaganda to steer your kid away from christianity" if you don't force it upon your child...
Agree.. But I can sort of understand why Christian people would want all children to be raised Christian if they believe that believing in God and embracing Christ is the only way to get into heaven. I'm pretty sure the chances of your kids being Christians when they're adults are bigger if you indoctrinate them from when they're babies than if you raise them with science and logic alone.
Thats exactly what used to happen people were forced to be christian or catholic or in some countries muslim. Infact in certain countries its STILL happening.
They had these books in my grade school library in middle America 15 years ago. I was surprised by their themes, but I didn’t immediately start worshipping Satan. That came later.
*also you are gorgeous
UK is pretty secular so we didn’t really have the same controversy. Was so disappointed with terrible film. Thank god BBC is doing it some justice with its series. Such nonsense that the books are atheistic. The alethiometer is the best description of divination in a story I’ve ever heard. Perfectly describes what it feels like to read the tarot or I Ching.
Actually I saw the moive first, than read the books.
The moive was good, but an eh...adaptation.
But yeah this bbc adaptation is waaaaay better.
there's also literal witches in it
so it's not some story where the divine or the supernatural doesn't exist
His purpose with the novels falls within atheism expression but atheism isn't shown as a whole in the perspective. Some people are atheist because they believe in nothing metaphysical. Many atheists are simply against Deism.
@@CarrotFlowers421 That's fascinating. I could put myself in that category in terms of Deism. But for me these books are a brilliant inversion with daemon as soul or anima - that which makes us who we are, whoever we are, and deals with concepts of the Fates or Destiny with classical Greek homage as much as it plays with the great mysteries of shamanism, witchcraft and the hierarchies of whatever monotheistic pantheon holds sway, not unlike Star Wars and the Force. Why life turns out the way it does has seemingly no reasonable explanation. I see so many religions in Pullman but his magic is his ability to hold compassion at its centre and never let go. We have free will but it's the choices we make along the way that we look to higher inspiration for. I call that Spirit. Milton called it God and Pullman calls it Dust. But it's the stuff of everything. The fabric that holds it all together. The sheer mystery of Dust is like the Great Mystery of the Native Americans, compelling enough to start Lyra on her pathway. And spin the athiometer... :)
Nonsense that the books are atheistic? The author himself proudly declares them to be atheistic works, and written to emphasise free-thinking, rebellion against theocracy and defiance of divine right. The methods of divination used in the story have an explanation that excludes contact with God. It's Dark Matter that one is communing with.
I read these when I was younger, and the Vatican is probably right to ban it because when I was teen, this book really opened up my mind to religion. Or rather, the many many problems associated with organized religion. So, I loved this series, and I will be reading them to my child when they are older. (right now still in the womb, so.)
It's been a year. Should we say congratulations?
@@importantstuf8870 lol if you want to shes 9months old this weekend
It's hilarious that those who think they have an all-powerful deity on their side as well as, quite often, the machinery of government, are so sensitive to any criticism. The books are a celebration of knowledge as opposed to the Eden story, which celebrates ignorance.
recently found the show, and ive never loved anything quite like this. excellent thematic outlook and really makes you feel and think about things youd otherwise never even touch.
oh now I get why I liked these books more. Growing up jewish and reading Narnia, especially in the 7th book, I felt I was basically told that I as a person, am not worthy of salvation or anything. Meanwhile reading his dark materials I always got more of a sense of empowering, especially as a girl. I can imagine Narnia is a great book for christians but for others? a big no-no.
It's because this book and show describes what gnostic christians believed perfectly. Anyone see episode 1 of season 3? The angels describe exactly what gnostic christians believed. Essentially gnostics has the role of god and the devil reversed. They believe the devil was the good guy for offering us knowledge in the garden of Eden. Where god created a false reality and wanted to keep us from the truth. That has to be where the author got it from. That's the same idea as the authority just being an angel, and ruling. The books that talked about this were seized up by the Vatican
The authority is the demi urge
This was so well though but the only problem i have is with the pronunciation of alethiometer, i believe it's pronounced al-ee-thee-oh-meh-ter
Yep, as a greek i can confirm.
@@lydp2573 also as a geek I agree
i am greek and the word is actually greek too.hahaha.i think you proounce it right..btw it means truth from the word alithia and meter from,well meter if you didnt already know.
I was going to say the same thing about the pronunciation. This is how it’s pronounced in the audio books too.
This is the best review of the saga I've ever seen. You are really really smart!
I enjoyed this video so much. Thank you for researching the materials and presenting everything. Great job!!
great video! the his dark materials trilogy means a lot to me but I didn't know much about the controversy behind it. also didn't know about the censorship. I read it when I was in middle school, and I have a lot of emotion bound up in it from that, but over time I've also been able to appreciate how pullman's writing makes it all work.
Really enjoyed this. I've always been so confused by the golden compass name - it's really interesting how the publishing industry works!
I've read the books and found them quite dark, but intriguing. Thanks for your break down of the controversy.
This series was recommended to me by a teacher at my Catholic school. Thank you, Mr. A!
Great video!!!... read the novels some time ago... really enjoyed all three. Was really upset that the movie was made softening all major themes of the book, but now with this BBC new series, the story is as it was written, great job!
5:17 I had no idea! I have the American version of the trilogy and never realized all of that was cut!
I live in the US, and I long ago got into the habit of ordering British books from Amazon.UK to get around crap like this.
(I also tend to like their covers more.)
I am Catholic and read all 3 books-loved them!
This was really interesting! Thanks for making this video!
I read Northern lights as a kid when it first came out because I liked the cover and the blurb. Fell in love and the Amber spyglass is the only book to make me cry (yeah I admit it) when Will and Lyra had to say goodbye forever.
That part made me cry too, as well as it was the end of an amzing series in addition to the goodbye
I think it made me cry twice. The first was when Lyra had to leave Pan behind.
Shit I'm reading it right now 😅 major spoiler of the last few pages I guess...
Thanks for the spoiler warning!!!
His Dark Materials is one of my favorite book series.
Very evenhanded and fair analysis here; I enjoyed your more neutral approach. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
I just finished watching the series. Great video.
I recommend everybody read the 'Belacqua' passages of Dante's Divine Comedy. It is fascinating.
Very interesting topic, thank you for the video
3333
Pullman's intention was to 'refusal to lament the loss of innocence'? I did not get that at ALL. Lyra lost her natural ability to read the alethiometer because she entered puberty, and lost her 'childs grace'. I felt pretty bummed at how negative 'growing up' was portrayed in this book, and how positive childhood was incomparison.
I only wish I had read this as a teenager, maybe right after Tolkien. But as a senior citizen learning it for the first time, it makes perfect pure sense having lived Mary’s journey myself. The movie and series downplay the atheistic themes. Pullman combines Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, and Richard Feynman. Not Narnia, but Perelandra.
9:46 yeah coincidence, cause James McAvoy is in literally everything these days... But he is also amazing in almost everything... Peter Dinklage was also in the "Chronicles of Narnia" and "Game of Thrones"... Though he was almost unrecognizable in Narnia
Lol never knew Peter Dinklage was in Narnia but I guess that just proves your point 😂
@@KanohiVahi yeah he was in the second movie as that one prominent dwarf however as I said he was almost unrecognizable due to the fact that he was covered in prosthetics... Trumpkin was the name of the dwarf, just looked it up
I love that the second season went on with the concept of dark matter
Oh man...I forgot James McAvoy was in Narnia. That was a lifetime ago...
I’m impressed. I studied Semiotics years ago with a great teacher. This would’ve left her impressed too. I’m subscribing.
Thanks : )
> Semiotics
Pretender to the throne of general-semantics.
As someone whose read both the chronicles of Narnia and his dark materials as kid and intends to reread as an adult, I find Pullman's concerns about the chronicles quite astute as when you read the final book for example, Lewis makes out the enemy to be middle eastern and hook nosed, while the trio of children are as crusaders bringing divine justice
I think that this is reaching a bit too far. The fact that the villain is hook nosed is not necessarily an indication that the author believes middle eastern people to be inherently bad. To suggest that is far fetched and appears to me to be another attempt at dismantling the moral value of a pro-Christian story.
@@andrasmarto6563 I read all the books when I was 10, and even then it was clear that Lewis was indicting Islam. There's a part in the 7th book where it deliberatley says that the desert people claim to worship the same god, but this is a lie and a trick.
That said, I fail to see how this is racist or even "problematic." It's fair game to make digs at a rival religion.
@@WWLinkMasterX “Is your religion so weak or your will so tired that it is unable to withstand the slightest breeze of criticism?”
I tend to believe that organized religion is a good thing since there is more than one of them; it's not possible to point to someone and say "yeah, he has it all figured out." We're all journeying through life together and figuring ourselves and our world out through our own personal spyglass. That being said, not all organized religions have the same degree of good or righteousness about them. It seems to me that any religion or belief that is not tolerant to real or perceived criticism seems to be the most fragile.
Great series! I was curious that your computer wallpaper from the show? Do you know where I could find that?
My enjoyment of this well made video was severely marred by the many commercial interruptions.
No, the daemon does not settle 'towards the end of the childs puberty' it settles at the BEGINNING, like age 13
I'm pretty sure it settles when they become an adult, so at the end of puberty
@@millybrumwell8998 Correct me if im wrong but Lyras daemon settles as an ermine at the end of the series when she is 13, while will's settles at the same time ....
@@umwha At the end of the series she is around 16...
So I guess she isn't an adult yet, but past the "innocence" of being a child.
@@millybrumwell8998 Is that explicitly said? Also, that still is wayyyyyy before the age of maturity
Fantastic series of books. Cant wait for the next one
It's out already - the Book of Dust
I mean the 3rd Book of Dust
i remember reading this book series at the age of 10/11 and adoring it. my teacher was the one to lend them to me, since she knew i loved to read
The His Dark Materials Trilogy was one of my top 10 favorite book series as a kid. I didn't notice the anti-religeon stuff I just enjoyed reading it. I hated reading until my 7th grade english teacher made me read The Count Of Monte Christo, The Call of the Wild, The Man In The Iron mask and A Seperate Peace. Some would call these 4 books controversial there were a few brutal revenge scenes and homosexual references. These books made me realize that a book can be so much better than a movie because the book contains way more information. Now I read 20-40 minutes every evening. I wouldn't be the reader I am today if my 7th grade english teacher hadn't let me read those books. If you don't let you're kid read popular books like His Dark Materials and Harry Potter you are doing you're kid a disservice you're kid won't be as likely to develop a reading habit and they won't understand the world as well. I don't think His Dark Materials is anti-religion. I think His Dark materials makes the argument that religion can be good or bad, you shouldn't blindly follow you should always ask yourself is this the right thing to do?
I read these translated in greek when I was in my teens and I'd like to believe they formed me in some kind of way. I am shocked to find out that certain parts of the book have been censored so I guess that I'm in the market for the original version of the trilogy now!
0:58 Whose fan art it’s that? I like it a lot.
Thanks for this video and your unbiased view
If your faith in your preferred deity is absolute then nothing said, written, or drawn by man should concern you. If your chosen deity is indeed all powerful does it matter what a non-believer says? However, if you think your religious beliefs are threatened by the actions of a person it's time to take a long hard look at your faith.
What's that snippet of music at the end? It seems so familair to me but I can't quite place it.
really interesting and well read. Thanks.
Fascinating!
I started reading the trilogy after a friend of mine at work told me his fiancee was getting him to read it. I had seen and enjoyed the movie so I got the books and was entranced.
I loaned the movie to my friend who said he didn't know whether to be happy or mad about it. The casting was perfect and the images were wonderful, but it was such a break-neck mad fast run through the story he could hardly keep up.
George R.R. Martin cites this movie as convincing him to do Game of Thrones as a TV series instead of as a series of movies as was originally planned.
I saw a couple of years ago the author is doing another series, prequel to the original. I bought the first book and stopped reading about two-thirds of the way through because I didn't want to come to the end of the book. I suppose I can get the subsequent books in the series now.
What I really wanted was a sequel, something to tell me how things went AFTER they brought down the Kingdom of Heaven.
The Secret Commonwealth (Book of Dust #2) is set after the original trilogy!
@@jakehopkins6989 : The Book of Dust Volume1, La Belle Sauvage is a prequel concerning the infant Lyra.
I haven't read Volume 2 yet.
They wouldn’t of tried to get it band if it wasn’t such an accurate representation 😂😂😂😂
Thanks for this inroduction! Just finished watching season 2 and read the trilogy before. For me, it's above all a statement against dogmatism and for free speech.
Dust is the Ether, which is the essence of Conscienceness. Scientifically it is Electricty and Magnetism equally creating the waves of living energy that is between everything.
*Banned book is being sold*
Me: SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
*Laughs in Tolkien*
This is the best comment in the entire section.
Pullman and Lewis are not at direct odds. They both emphasize the power of hierarchy in religion, but approach synthesis differently.
Funny thing with Macavoy in both Narnia and HDM
A novella prequel exists too when Lee Scoresby first meets Iorek. Once upon a time in the north .
i read it as a child and have considered it one of my favorites for a long time mostly because of the concept of the daemons but as i watched the series i realized i forgot the whole plot and lore except for some of what was shown in the movie and that the story is much more complicated and intriguing than the little me thought. but what's funnier back then i didn't understand the anti church ideas in the books so they had nothing to do with me still coming to dislike the church (orthodox in my case) through other events
Series 2, Episode 4, Tower of Angels was far too busy & may had been best treated into mutiple episodes. Left one getting much less continuity. I hope they re-capture that continuity. Maybe it should had been a 1 off like Watchman....
One of my "favorite" theories set by those who oppose these books, was that Lyra, when spoken aloud, sounds much like Lie-ra (she who lies, lieress, I guess), aka she actually is the liar, deceiver... much like the snake is biblically. I heard people seriously pushing this and others, seriously taking this in as a truth of some kind. It always amazes me how far people can go when they are afraid of someone shaking the pillars of their beliefs. I personally have my plusses and minuses when it comes to Pullman, but non of the religious kind and when it comes to Narnia, it's hard not to side with him on the matter.
Funny people think Lyra is the snake when she is meant to be Eve.
@@millybrumwell8998 My thoughts exactly. But there you have it.
Never knew he was an Atheist. But I can see why its banned. But, I can see his points. I am Christian, and have seen some pastors use power in an awful way. However, in the current church which is Baptist, its doesn't use power to hold people down. Rather, do community service. Even when I joined the church, they told me it's never required for me to attend church every Sunday because you have a life which is very opposite of what an religious organization wants. I think this series to root out the views of the Catholic church and how it can be oppressive. It's an interesting view point. I will not say that I agree with it, but I can understand why he wrote the series.
Not to be too much of a pedant, but no one in the divine comedy is “trapped” in purgatory. The whole point of purgatory is that you get out of it. And in this case, when Dante meet Belacqua in the after life, he hasn’t even been admitted into purgatory proper. He’s more in the waiting room.
Damn I need to check these books out
One of my favorite stories.
I havent watched the vid yet, but i finished the last book recently and was quiet sad, this is better than harry potter, and there wasnt a book with 800 frigin pages in his dark materials series so *n i c e*
Well, I guess even though I live in the US I DEFINITELY had the British version. I remember I bought one with a different cover than the rest of my books, because I didn't want to wait for the Amber Spyglass to come out in the US with the cover with the painting on it...
Yeah, and I live in Canada, but I have the American version (of books 2 and 3)...because I went to the States to volunteer for a few months back in 2004, and brought with me the first book of His Dark Materials which I had JUST purchased (so that I would have some decent reading material on the airplane). I loved it so much, I just couldn't wait to read the remainder of the series, so I bought the second and third books in the USA. I never realized that they had altered the text (though it is possible that even had I bought a Canadian version of the book, it would have been censored in this way...book 1 is called "The Golden Compass" here, so it's certainly possible).
Regarding the chapter titled "Marzipan," I actually did get the point Pullman was making (despite the censorship), as Lyra reacted to Mary's story of her own sexual awakening. It was pretty clear that the line "as Mary said that, Lyra felt something strange happen to her body. She felt as if she had been handed the key to a great house she hadn't known was there, a house that was somehow inside her, and as she turned the key, she felt the other doors opening deep in the darkness, and lights coming on. She sat trembling as Mary went on..." referred to Lyra's realization of what her feelings meant, a new context she had never considered because she was previously viewing the situation as a young child, and not as an adolescent. So this "great house" became a metaphor for the paradigm shift within her own mind.
But learning of this censorship today, I went and found the entirety of the passage in the British version. It reads: "As Mary said that, Lyra felt something strange happen to her body. She found a stirring at the roots of her hair: she found herself breathing faster. She had never been on a roller-coaster, or anything like one, but if she had, she would have recognised the sensations in her breast: they were exciting and frightening at the same time, and she had not the slightest idea why. The sensation continued, and deepened, and changed, as more parts of her body found themselves affected too. She felt as if she had been handed the key to a great house she hadn't known was there, a house that was somehow inside her, and as she turned the key, deep in the darkness of the building she felt other doors opening too, and lights coming on. She sat trembling, hugging her knees, hardly daring to breathe, as Mary went on...".
I like that version a LOT more. They both communicate the same idea, but the British passage details what this paradigm shift feels like in a much more... _visceral_ way (i.e. in the American version, the mental shift is described, but in the British version, you get the corporeal shift too - and they always go together). It felt *EXACTLY* like that for me, and for every human child to ever go through puberty (with the possible exception of _some_ asexual people who have never felt attraction in that way). _Why censor something that is an almost universal human experience (and not just that, but also one of the most poignant, beautiful, _*_meaningful_*_ human experiences)?_ This is also the beginning of the climax of the book, the place where Lyra is successfully tempted by the "serpent" (Dr. Mary Malone), setting up her first sexual experience with Will (the sexually repressed read the part that begins with the "little red fruit" and come away from it thinking that they eventually HAD intercourse, but I think that's...highly unlikely - you don't transition from an "innocent" child into an "experienced" young adult over the course of a single encounter...the process takes YEARS for most people) that saves Dust and the wonderful things it brings to all conscious creatures. It should not have been altered by the publisher - after all, American Christian fundamentalists would hate the trilogy either way. *Lyra and Will killed **_God_** just a few chapters earlier!* With that in mind, I just don't see how the passage from the British version could make the book any MORE objectionable for these close-minded people.
So I'm glad I know about this now. I would likely be purchasing new editions of these books in the next couple years anyway (since I've read mine so frequently that they have fallen apart, loose pages everywhere!)...now I know to find the British versions, so that I can experience them as Pullman intended (apparently, this isn't the only change to the text of the trilogy).
@@VoIcanoman Yeah, I had the british version so that was what I read! I just feel it communicated what was happening a lot clearer, and still a description like that would go over most younger readers heads. And OMG No I do not believe they had sex! I felt from what I read that they just kissed.
What's interesting about the TV series is that Will Parry is already 16. I'm not sure how old he is in the books?
@@brittanymcmcmc9730 I think they're both around 13 at the end of the trilogy, with Will being maybe a bit older than Lyra (and I looked it up - Amir Wilson is turning 17 in a few weeks, while Dafne Keen turns 16 in a couple weeks). But it's not unusual for adaptations to age up young characters. The abysmal film versions of the first two Percy Jackson books did it. They WANTED to do it for Harry Potter, but JK Rowling wouldn't let them. I think not a lot of directors want to work with 11-12 year olds. Looking back on the first two HP movies, I am really impressed at just how much Chris Columbus got out Radcliffe, Watson and Grint. I mean, their performances aren't great, but considering they're kids who had limited acting experience at that point, they do a decent job. But few directors have the patience for it.
And yeah, I was shocked when I read that some interpreted that scene near the end of Spyglass as actual sex (but believe me, such people exist). But I think it could be interpreted as metaphorical sex, the touching of a lover's daemon (which, in most situations, is absolutely forbidden in their world), and the fact that the daemons settle on those forms signifying a loss of childhood innocence. It's a neat way to show that they're different than they used to be, without actually becoming too intimate with eachother. They're still kids after all...just because you're sexually mature doesn't mean you're emotionally mature.
Loved both series growing up, except the endings of each series. The last battle repulsed me in how mean it was to certain characters, like Susan. And The last half of the Amber Spyglass, when actual god and angels were involved? That turned me off as well... Both had good things in them, and both didn't stick the landing for me.
Movie: Okay
Series: Good
Books: Literally my fav series ever
I never got to read this series as a child because I got yelled at by my devout Christian father the second I brought the first book home from the library.
As an adult I suddenly remembered this and now I think I'll buy myself a copy.
Do it! Buy all three - they're wonderful. The story is amazing, and it's told by an extremely talented, creative author. Most sci-fi/fantasy authors are either great storytellers who lack the imagination (or desire) to create realistic, elaborate new worlds, or they build incredible, detailed, complex worlds, only to tell sterile and/or unoriginal stories in them. Pullman has built one of the most impressive worlds in either genre (his trilogy could be described as fantasy with some science fiction rolled in), and has told one of the most memorable, creative, _heartwarming_ stories I've ever read. Only Tolkien's legendarium surpasses his for exceptional worldbuilding and storytelling...but that's not really a fair fight. Tolkien is the king of fantasy. Nobody has ever come close to dethroning him.
I'm an atheist myself but grew up in a 'Christian' home. I was always encouraged to think and decide for myself. My parents and sister were believers but never forced religion on me. I guess I was a conscious atheist from about the age of 7 or 8 when I discovered the joys of the Sciences. I was lucky in my family and see your father's reaction as child abuse.
The Mac wallpaper is cool
Is this why Ruth Wilson didn't get an Oscar? Although she did get an award in Cymru Wales.
Hi, thanks for the subtitles. I'm Brazilian, I can understand you, but with subtitles is more easy
Oh, great video
They always invert concepts primarily christian, God, heaven, the heirarchy of angels, but never Mohammad, never the Muslims.
Why is that?. it's like the literal low hanging fruit.
funny, considering there was no religion in my family what so ever and i never was told about any religion what so ever... but i am pretty sure reading this book made me more christian if anything...
That's kinda the point. Jesus and the early church were strictly opposed to hierarchy within the church, but the orthodoxy and catholicism have subverted that idea.
Yes, it is ironic. It demonstrates how little knowledge some atheists actually have. The Amber Spyglass is literally some of the worst preaching I have ever seen
I never heard of His Dark Materials until the HBO series started last year.
It's never too late to make a worthwhile discovery.
this music is giving me mafia vibes.
a very interesting video!
If you watch the BBC Crime Drama "Luther"(Series 1: Episode 1) the actress Ruth Wilson plays the narcissistic suspect Alice Morgan accused of murdering her parents and the family dog. Her character Alice is a child prodigy, who gained a PHD at the age of 18 and studied astrophysics of "Dark Matter Distribution in Disc Galaxies!" Ruth Wilson also plays Marisa Coulter in "His Dark Materials" about the same subject "Dark Matter"!
I've watched Luther but didn't know this, great info....
Not gonna lie, reading HDM as a child really helped me take the final step in ditching Catholicism and religion as a whole. That decision was life-saving, as I do not know if I would still be alive if I had stayed in the church. So, in a way, I owe my life to this series and its "atheism for kids".
So you placed all your trust in a poorly researched propagandistic fiction? Good plan.
@@tsarnicholasii274 hmm... No? I used a work of fiction to realize that I had been following another (shittier) work of fiction with a terrible past and present for no good reason and that was making me miserable.
@@luizotavio2116 Fair enough, I was concerned that your change in belief was caused solely by this book. Sorry.
@@tsarnicholasii274 It was mostly helped by it, I'm not gonna lie. But instead of replacing one faith with another, it just made me question and step back from my previous (catholic) one.
Catholic church: YoU CAn'T SaY tHAt AboUT US!!!
Philip Pullman: I never said it was based on you...
Basically the catholic church called themselves out by admitting that the Majesterium is based on them... Lol.
Magisterium is a term taken directly from Catholicism, and in the books they are referred to as "The Church" most of the time. Pullman wasn't being subtle about it. His Dark Materials criticises the Catholic church in a pretty direct way.
@Kirill Borovets That’s not Islam you bigot
@Kirill Borovets Hitler has nothing to do with Islam. You can like Rock Metal music but you aren’t a part of any band are you. The media is depicting Islam in a negative light
@Kirill Borovets The followers of the Magisterium are explicitly christians in the story. It's referenced several times throughout the series.
@Kirill Borovets Yes it does. Iofur Raknison specifically wants to be baptised a christian, and followers of the magisterium call themselves christians. The Magisterium is not just a random monotheistic organisation, it is THE Christian Church.
Thoughtful analysis. A small correction: according to NASA, "It turns out that roughly 68% of the universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 27%.".
"Power" attracts the corruptable
But this series is like...
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....keep screaming
Does this video have any spoilers regarding this show/books? I'm a fan of the show but never read the books, so I don't want to know the ending yet.
No spoilers don’t worry 😊
The Controversy is exactly the point of the story telling. The Irony!
Being raised Christian I always felt the Narnia bible influence was a bit on the nose, especially the ending of the series. I haven't read His Dark Materials yet but after watching this video I am fan of Pullman already and His Dark Materials has raced to the top of my TBR for this year.
It's pronounced
Peck-ah-lah.
And Al-ee-thi-ohm-eter.
This whole video was full of mispronunciations.
Ive read both narnia and his dark materials. And I took things away from both of them. Screw the authors these series should be read one after the other so that a kid can understand it
What a great discussion. I have only read the first in the series and plan on reading the other two soon. I am also loving the bbc adaptation, besides Lin- Manuel Miranda. I think Sam Elliot did a better job. On a side not and sorry for the personal question but did I see a sleeve tattoo? Any bookish imagery?
Ha ha! It’s a half sleeve-ish! Not completely finished yet though. No bookish imagery - mostly Japanese style with some South American sugar skulls to mix it up. Thanks for noticing 😀
That’s cool, I have always wanted a tattoo, but I am such a wimp plus I am so indecisive
Would love to have subtitles