Speed isn't everything to everyone. Hardtail XC MTB is a comfortable commuter and excellent bike packing rig. Your choice should be based not only on what riding you'll mostly do but also which bike gives you the most confidence.
The way I see it, with an XC bike you can put thinner/slicker tires, different bar and just lock the suspension and you have a gravel bike. You can never turn a gravel bike into a capable mountain bike.
@@Qlickyright. IMHO the real question is what you want to ride. An XC bikes with the appropriate tyres isn’t a good commuter while it will smoke every gravel on rough terrain. A gravel is a good commuter and will easily outstrip the XC on gravel. Imho a gravel bike is the better choice for everyone who doesn’t want to do real off-road.
All the videos Francis has been making are like creating the basics for people getting into riding and being a go to rather than someone like GCN, which I applaud him for. Different perspective for people and something that’s not just sponsor based
@@shimona500 he’s got sponsorships but so far haven’t seen him say that a Scott foil is going to magically make you super quick or that it’s next thing since sliced bread. He’s sponsored but doesn’t live and breathe them.
A big part of this comes down to “where” you are going to ride most of the time. Gravel bikes are designed to ride “gravel” and there’s not a lot of that in the UK. If you are riding “off road” - trails, mud, single track, rocks, downhill then the hardtail seems a better choice. For a mixture of Road and not very technical trails I can see the advantages for the gravel bike too.
I am in Croatia at coast in south , and I cannot remember any significant gravel road here . Nice MTB hardtail and you can even commute in city , better than with any other bike . It's bike for all purposes , and most people like that - to be able to just jump to sidewalk , to ride in really bad roads , to just go in parks and nature . And 99% of people do not need 10 kg carbon mtb hardtail , they would be good aluminium , 14 kg bike , and bike will be durable and safe to ride for decade or longer . I hate to see that guy in video was so desperate and frustrated when he saw that his bike is 'heavy' at 10 kg . I have seen too many people here ( Dubrovnik ) who buy great bikes and then they are not riding it . I have 1000$ MTB and I like it . Bike riding does not suppose to be easy as walk at park at slow pace . It's heavy sometimes , I just jump off my bike at uphill and walk beside the bike . Why would I spend all my energy on one impossible hill .
Horses for courses, yes. I don't see gravel bikes as gravel surface specific though. I think of them as meant for smooth off road withouth very steep climbs/descents or technical sections. Whether the tracks are gravel or more clay based it goes down to tyre choice, I think. I live in the UK and I find most off road riding hardly justifies a MTB, apart from comfort. It is mostly flat with the odd hill in between and hardly any big boulders, except perhaps in Scotland, Wales, and the odd bit in Northern England. I am able to ride slick road tyres in most of flat off road tracks, unless it is winter. I never found myself unable to ride off road with my gravel tyres, even when I was living in an area with rolling hills. It is not the most comfortable ride though. I come from a mountaineous region in sourthern europe where even a hardtail is often lacking off road, let alone a gravel bike. 1800m of elevation over 75k is very much the norm and there are rocks and boulders everywhere. Gravel bikes are only suited to forest tracks, which means most riders have road or MTB only. MTB are definitely more suited and more comfortable off road, although they are also more costly to maintain due to suspension forks and/or shocks, which I don't think many realise and could perhaps been highlighted. Unless the terrain asks for one, I prefer a drop bar bike with wider tyres. More versatile and easier to maintain. I don't think hardtails and gravel bikes are comparable at all, they are just suited to different terrains.
I never thought I needed or wanted a gravel bike, but bought one on a whim which was on sale. I have a whole stable of bikes, including top end XC bikes, enduro bike, single speed etc, and despite living right next to one of the best MTB parks in the world, I have found I spend most my time on the gravel bike. Its the bike I needed without knowing I needed it! I love the speed and versatility of the gravel bike and can link long rides together that involve road, gravel, single track etc - it does it all pretty well.
The in-between is a full rigid mountain bike. You can put whatever size tire you want, and no extra weight from the squishy suspension. And they're great for bikepacking.
I was asking myself the same question only a week back. I've ridden an awful lot on various versions of road bikes, and, inevitably, using them on gravel tracks and muddy trails (aka National Cycle Network). What gets me every time is the mud which just gums everything up and, with mudguards (fenders) on normally finds me grinding to a gritty stop. In addition there are the inevitable ruts from tree roots or from larger vehicles (cyclo-cross bikes and off-roader cars). And so I opted for a hardtail MTB. Nothing too fancy - but not entry level - I've found the large nobbly tyres, super-wide straight handlebars and generous gear ratios a real epoc-defining change in riding experience. That coupled with the front suspension and more upright riding position (my back's not what it once was) has enabled me to just plough through and over everything. Indeed, where once I avoided ruts, puddles and divets, I now actively seek them out - it's just so much fun. Finally, living in Chopwell (which has very similar terrain to Hamsterley, but probably more water and therefore mud, and certainly hills) I think that the MTB just lends itself to the terrain perfectly. Finally, someone mentioned that I'd joined "the dark side". Seems like there is a different culture between roadies and MTB'ers which may be worth covering off in one of your fine episodes. Loving the evolving channel guys!
There’s only so much that fat tires can compensate for, and on longer rides it doesn’t take a very rough surface to get uncomfortable on a gravel bike, so the answer which bike to choose should be based entirely on where it’s going to be used most and not what tools and spares we have laying around.
with my old worn out body, with damage from accidents and age, i use a hard tail mountain bike with gravel tires. works great, upright position comfy for my back and wrists. gearing and crankset adjusted for better road/gravel riding, thats all you need
A suggestion for comparisons - don't do elite bikes. Anyone that can afford and has the use case for one of these could likely afford both, or at least a step down of each. A more useful comparison would be for the guy who can only afford one bike - compare s $1000 hard tail to a $1000 gravel bike. Another interesting comparison would be to throw a flat bar gravel into the mix - splitting some of the difference.
As someone who’s ridden and raced mountain bikes for around a decade, I’ve just switched to a road bike.. the sketchy feeling of a gravel bike on a trail is how I feel on the road lol! Everything feels too far forward and really unstable! But I’m loving the speed!
I'm still used to mtb harddtails with 20-10 old geo and I even find them too steep and twitchy, but I have to say it was intoxicating jumping on a road/hybrid and feeling what it was like on a bike so light that a single pedal stroke would let me coast up an incline and slice back and forth through turns with barely any mass to feel in the way, but good god that feels dangerous to someone used to knobs that hook into everything for traction. The hybrid/gravel rocket feeling offroad is addicting if you got the privilege of places to use it but I always have the fear that slick/tiny knob tires will suddenly give out and send me into a guard rail/ditch
And locking out the fork when climbing to prevent the bob when pedaling. An XC hardtail is far more versatile because it can ride road (not as fast, but can do it) and handle far rougher terrain. If you're talking versatility, the hardtail beats a gravel bike every day of the week. What it comes down to is expectations. Where I live, it's fairly flat. So I just use my fixie as a single speed for roads. Gears aren't that necessary. If I'm riding somewhere and I don't know what the roads are going to be like, then I take the XC bike with 100mm suspension that I converted to single speed (again, flat terrain) with XC tires with smaller knobs than the ones on the bike in the video. It's basically my, "I don't know what road conditions are like and I'm riding in an area where hopping onto a curb at a moment's notice might be necessary" bike. I'm not worried about speed, so a gravel bike is fairly useless to me. Plus, that "slack" 69 degree head angle is far more stable at speed on the few downhill spots I find, or when I'm sending stairs because I'm cutting across a plaza.
Its cool to see these kind of comparisons. I bought a gravel bike 3 years ago after riding mountainbikes for years and years. After about 2000km on the gravel bike i put on flat bars, and I love it even more now. And thats because it suits me and what I come from. So it''s all about prefecene :D Nice videos!
@@jensthimmvalsted1000 LOL It's just a potential option, but whilst aerodynamically functional in a headwind, they're not aesthetically good looking at all :(
An XC bike with aero bars and semi-slick tyres is also really fast and capable. Particularly if it gets steep on the downhill, the gravel bike is going to run out of back wheel grip, and any front brakes will send you over the bars, while the XC bike will stay in control.
I can attest to the back wheel of a gravel bike losing grip on a steep downhill and sweeping away from under you like a tablecloth trick under the silverware. Luckily I fell next to the sharp rocks and not on top of them. By aero bars you mean like the TT kind of aero bars?
@@stefanlukic7272 love thr Thunder Burts! Have always ridden them on my xc full sus Cannondale Scalpel. Finished 23rd overall at Dirty Kanza one year. They're fast, with good traction and stability. Just ordered another set for my new Trek Super Caliber. I will also ride my Super Caliber on gravel 100%.
Can I just say the quality of these videos is amazing, the shot of Jimmy at 11:26 captures the joy of cycling so well. Love it! Of course, down to individual preference and where you're going to be riding most, but I love the versatility of the gravel bike on paths, trails, and roads and over longer distances the road handlebars are more comfortable. Definitely limited on trails and downhill but if you're choosing one bike that will kind of take you everywhere, I'd say gravel is the one.
One thing to consider is the strengt of the wheels. Gravel bikes are built lighter. If the bike gets a lot of rough handling off road the wheels are probably not strong enough. I would ride an upright XC-MTB with a narrower handle bar and narrower fast rolling tires.
Great explanation of the differences guys! So much of it comes down to the terrain you intend to ride. For me the ‘gravel’ riding is so light in Sydney you can easily manage it on your road bike, but then the jump to anything off road is dramatic … often loose sandstone singletrack. I’m leaving towards going the hard tail route, but like Francis alluded to its the compatibility and familiarity jump when going MTB that I’m afraid of.
Something in between would be an older hardtail, or older ridgid mtb. I have ridden both and they have narrower bars, more upright geo, and smoother tires. I use the ridgid as a gravel bike but from the opposite side. The rear 1.9in tire works great for bad roads and hardpack. These bikes used to be more common, but mountain bikes focused more on downhill prowess and left a void that the gravel bike has now filled.
Something about Jimmy's face that always makes me smile, he always looks like he's enjoying himself and brings a boyish curiosity! Keep up the good work fellas
I have a 29er hardtail and a road bike. I used to have a gravel bike also, but I sold it. I was only 2 minutes faster on my daily commute on the gravel bike compared to the hardtail, and the hardtail is more fun, so I sold the gravel bike. My hardtail pretty much rides like a hybrid bike with the 1x12 shimano XT setup, remote lock of the fork and 2.1 tyres. Great bike
how long was your commute overall? I'm killing myself on whether to get a gravel or mtb for my new bike. I have trails 10-30 minutes away from me (on bike). Have ridden MTB most of my life, but my mtb is 23 years old so not too different from a gravel bike in terms of thin (flat) handlebar, smaller wheels. I threw some cheap front suspension on it years ago. I'm trying to decide between an xc flattail like the trek x-caliber or procaliber, or an equivalent gravel like the trek checkpoint. If I go with the MTB I'm going to opt for slimmer wheels, probably ~50-55cm / 2 to 2.3nch range, get some bar clips for hand positions, maybe slim the bar a little.
I think the big reason gravel bikes are popular is because companies aren't making touring bikes anymore. My road bike is a Cannondale SuperSix, which while a very fun and enjoyable bike to ride, has been built with speed as it's priority. It's optimized for best performance at around 20mph and faster. It's a bit too stiff to be comfortable over long distances, it's a bit too aggressive in position which leads to the same issue of comfort. It's only got the capacity for carrying 2 bottle cages, the rest of the frame left as smooth as possible for aerodynamics. It's built to go fast, comfort and carrying capacity comes at the expense. When I go touring I'm not riding at 20 mph, I'm probably averaging more like 12. I don't care about going fast, I'm not trying to win a race, I'm too busy enjoying the atmosphere, taking in the sights and sounds and smells and enjoying my holiday. In that context, much better to have 40mm tyres not 25s, much better to have that relaxed geometry and longer wheelbase. Much better to fit pannier racks or frame bags and carry all the food, clothes, spare parts, etc I will need. Which, speaking of, might make for a good comparison. An old school touring bike like a Dawes Galaxy or something, up against a modern gravel bike. I wonder just how close or not they are in terms of comfort
I was not equiped with much stuff before getting my gravel bike. I have an old hard-tail that I use sometimes on relatively easy trails (with variable quantities of mud and/or water). The gravel allows me to go far and fast with the option to be comfy on bad roads and take trails when they are available. Far from motorized trafic as much as possible. Like a road bike but very comfortable and able to go off road, without sacrificing to much in terms of efficiency on the road.
I use my gravel bike as a long distance road bike mostly. When doing really long rides I don't know the route beforehand, so there is a high chance to see some gravel/dirt roads. Also the more comfortable position, low gearing and bigger tire clearance works well for that. I tried taking it on gnarlier stuff too but did not like it at all, I much prefer a mtb for that.
That's what has me considering a gravel bike too (in my case probably building something budget using older parts), I think I'd enjoy a road bike for long distance but... this is probably a pretty global thing, but around where I am in the US, there's a *lot* of rough roads. You'd think a 4-lane mini-highway ("stroad") would be nice and smooth and fast, but there's potholes and crappy patch jobs and ripples at stoplights, etc etc... I wouldn't dare trying to take on some of these streets without a bit more grip and cushion, at least at my skill level. Way nicer to be a bit overbiked for rough terrain when you don't know the condition of the roads ahead, and having that option to say "I'm not touching that" when you come across some 60MPH highway route all of a sudden and you've got some gravel trail nearby as a safer route. Likewise I'm coming from usually riding an MTB, so that's also a factor. Gravel bike is the good compromise for someone with a MTB background looking to pick up a bit more speed without going all the way into a road bike.
One thing to note about gravel bikes is that old non-boost MTB wheels fit thruaxle gravel bikes as long as you can swap the front hub end caps to match the fork. Rear wheels are the same as the old 12x142 MTB standard that was replaced with 12x148 Boost. So if you have access to older non-boost MTB wheels then those make a good alternative for rougher gravel roads. Depending on cassette choice some fit directly and some just require a freehub body swap to work.
I've found that where I live a Gravel bike is perfect for everything I'd do with an XC bike. Said XC bike hasn't been in the wild since I got the Gravel bike. Riding trails in the drops is super fun and I love long tours on mixed terrain.
As I've gotten to be of the older persuasion, I have less interest in absolutely going fast, and more interest in going comfortably but still getting good aerobic exercise. Additionally, I want to avoid punctures as much as possible. Toward that end, I now have both a hard tail and a full sus. mtb. The upright position my be less "aero", but is more comfortable than dipping into the drops; the more robust tires are less prone to punctures; the suspension smooths out bumps on the road and rocks and roots off-road. Yeah, they're slower than their road and gravel bike brethren on pavement, but one can still get good exercise while enjoying the scenery. After I turned 60, ten years ago, my whole motivation for cycling has changed. Of the two bikes you tested, I'd go for the XC mtb. If I only cared about riding on pavement, I'd just install skinnier, less knobby tires.
I'm a MTB rider myself, so it's super interesting seeing this comparison from more of the roadie perspective! Same definitely applies in reverse with your conclusion at the end; if you've got some trail MTBs already, something along the lines of an XC mountain bike is the easier transition because they likewise share so many parts from stuff you've already got. If I were to go for a gravel bike for example, I'd be starting from scratch, not necessarily having road bike tools or parts laying around. Though I think there's some gravel bikes that borrow more from the MTB parts bin? So there's that to consider as well.
Love your little outings testing stuff/comparing bikes etc, I'm an avid mtb'r but jumped on the whole gravel bike band wagon last year and I'm totally loving it!
Hmmmm, I have to admit that I have all 3-Specialized Roubaix for road, Planet X Tempest for winter road and gravel, and a Sonder Signal Ti Hardtail 29’er for anything else. The Tempest will take a 50mm x 700c tyre with mud clearance so it has to be really muddy or knarly for me to use the Signal which has 2.3 and 2.5 tyres on and will take a 3.0…. Something Jimmy said struck me when he said the hardtail just ploughs through anything-that’s how I feel about the Signal-I call it my truck! The other thing is the weight-the Tempest weighs between 10.3 and 11.5kg depending on the tyres I have on, and the Signal weighs 14.3kg so both of your bikes are basically 4kg lighter!! The other side of the weight is of course that the Ti bikes are both basically indestructible. Where we ride which is Cambs-Beds-Norfolk-Northants we have to do a lot of road miles to link up trails and bridleways so a gravel bike works best for us round here.
Francis nailed it, if you're on an actual "trail", suspension fork and flat bar all the way. If you're staying on "gravel" or flat forest roads, knobby tires on a road frame!
Most offroad routes around me are twisty and undulating, with a fair share of rocks and roots. I have just a very minimal amount of long, straight, fast gravel routes around me. Because of this, I am doing higher average speeds using my Specialized Chisel than using my Diverge. The latter can also do some pretty rough terrain using knobbly 45mm tires, but way slower. The Diverge only becomes faster when i reach more than 50% paved surface on my ride. I also have to add that this is only true when I use very fast XC tires on the hardtail- something like an Aspen or a Race King. Using this type of tire + innerbarends gets you very close to the tarmac speeds of a gravel bike, with this setup I can easily keep up with my gravel buddies on a group ride, even on straightline paved roads. My take is, gravel bikes are best if you want to go very long distances, with a large(50+) percentage of tarmac involved. If it’s mostly off road, I just get the Chisel, even for 100km+ rides.
I love watching your videos as a mountain biker because it's funny hearing you call an XC race machine with a 69 degree head angle "slack" when I'm use to riding bikes with 63-65 degree head angles that weigh 35lbs.
MTB inspired gravel bikes such as the Canyon Grizl with a 30mm suspension option and clearance for chunky 50mm tyres are a blend of the two. Possibly my next bike purchase.
Coming from a mtb to GRVL I found running wide and flaired drop bars makes a big difference with the stability you mentioned, especially noticeable on single-track
When it comes to defining a gravel bike, I think the best way to think of it is that bikes sit somewhere on the following spectrum Track bikes -> road bikes -> all road bikes -> off road bikes Gravel (depending on the bike) sits between all road and off road on the spectrum. Same can be said for hardtails but they sit close to the offroad end of the spectrum. So that answer to your question is where does your riding or where do you want your riding to sit on that spectrum
I just sold my cross country hardtail, because for cross country riding my gravel bike is perfect (including light trails). Plus it's great for commuting and touring, basically 3 bikes in 1. I kept my Enduro hardtail for the gnarly stuff. My gravel bike has such a comfortable and laid back geometry, so it's super comfy on either short or very long trips. And it has eyelets, so I can put on a rack or fenders if needed.
If we are talking about trails (even pretty simple ones), then xc bike is much more confident and fun. Gravel bikes for long rides on not very bumpy roads. So, now I have an endurance road bike and full sus (100/100) xc bike.
You fellas are smashing it…. Loving the team work since Jimmy has joined forces 👌🏽 Cracking video-editing as well as inspiration Francis as always. Thanks for your work Francis ✌🏽
I just recently turned my hardtail into a gravel. With a 142mm rear hub spacing, I managed to fit 700c road wheel with 35mm gravel tyres. fitted SRAM XPLR groupset. Kinda unique setup but it suit my use on road, light trail and jumping around urban kerbs.
Great video! I am an MTB lifer, currently in season 2 of cyclocross racing, and looking at a gravel bike is getting harder and harder to ignore. The problem is though, I spent all my money on an MTB for summer, and a fatbike for winter. The struggle is real!
I got a Canyon Pathlite 6 as of recently. Best buy ever. Gravel bikes aren't my thing. Most of them have very similar gear ratios compared to road bikes. Quite a few of them have easier gears than road bikes but for the place where I live, it's not enough. The Canyon Pathlite 6 has it all. It's 1X (my fav kind of chainring), 36T and 12 gears (10-51T). A perfect mix between a road bike and a MTB. Relatively fast, and very comfortable with its 40mm tyres and huge clearance for basically every type of tyre. Super easy gears for the tougher climbs or paths. Also Canyon has the Roadlite 6, which is again a step in the right direction. 1X too, 46T chainring and 12 gears (10-51T). Sooo fast, and even faster than my road bike (whose faster gear is 48-11). Also it climbs better than my 34-34T easiest gear on my road bike vs 46-51T of the Roadlite. Plus both the Pathlite and Roadlite (specially this one) are gorgeous bikes.
I own both. The hardtail is better in every way, unless you're regularly doing 50km+ rides. The gravel bike will struggle if the off-road terrain if not perfectly smooth.
Should've used the same tire on both and compare. Also, many xc bike forks lockout for climbing for max power transfer. If you plan to ride single track trails gotta go with the Mt bike. If you're pretty much riding road and dirt road terrain- gravel bike. The gravel bike I think was an American thing because we have so many gravel/dirt roads created by the logging and forest service that a road bike that can better handle dirt was needed.
The versatility of a gravel bike just does it for me. I have a nice road bike but went bikepacking with my new gravel for the first time, 750km in 5 days to the mt. Ventoux. There my mates who arrived by car brought me my road wheelset to go on road rides with them. Bags, wild camping, mud, mountains - street climbs and beautiful roads in the provence, all on one bike in one holiday
As an owner of dual sus xc, hardtail xc, “suspended and dropped” gravel bike, ti gravel+ bike and various road bikes….from 25c to 2.4” tire, all with and without droppers, mid to top range mechanical shifting and top end electronic shifters, it comes down to only 1 thing. Just ride your bike. Unless you are racing at the extreme end of the field, and even then, just ride. It’s why we started, to ride.
Getting the right bike is often a tough thing because you often have bigger ambitions than the reality shows. I've spent years riding an xc when the reality would better be covered by a road bike or if today - a gravel bike. Then I spent years with a full suspension enduro bike when a full suspension xc bike would be better suited or down country as it is today. Now I got an endurance (like a gravel bike, just in the most road-like segment) and a road bike. And I'm looking at building that down country bike for my trips in the woods. so finally I might have the right bikes ;)
“Gravel” bike were born from the road bikes that used to be sold as “endurance” (concept now defunct), and are made to compete to an extent with cross country bikes, although at the cost of comfort and efficiency.
Bought a gravel bike, which is my only bike now. I don’t ride that much technical off-roads. Stock tires were 35mm, then I bought a second set of wheels with 28mm slick tires. My gravel bike can turn into a road bike! I’m not into racing so it works for me. 😃
Having just posted a video about whether gravel is the only bike you need anymore, I must admit that a little more ‘give’ in the front end of a gravel bike might be quite welcome. I’m not sure if it would need to be a full front sus fork, but just something to dampen the front end knocks. 👌🏻
Didn't they release a gravel bike with 70mm travel suspension on the front a while back? I'm sure I remember these guys or maybe gcn doing a video on it.
@@davidmidcalf3470 now you mention it, I do vaguely recall that now. I think that’s all it would need, or less even, just to stop the biggest jolts on the wrists. I’ve just ordered a suspension seat post for my gravel bike too, so I’m hoping that’ll take good care of my undercarriage too 😂 but only time will tell!
I hear it all the time that a gravel bike is more versatile than a mountain bike. I don't think it's the case. On a mountain bike you can ride everything that a gravel bike does (although a bit slower) but you can ride plenty of stuff you wouldn't think of riding on a gravel bike. It's horses for courses for each bikes intended purpose, but the MTB can do far more.
Good video guys. I’ve got a gravel bike and love it. Gravel tyres for winter riding, then switch to slicks for the summer. Super comfy for a middle aged man like myself, and does most things I’d want to do off road. It’s just when it gets sloppy, that it’s a struggle to ride off road.
Nice one. I think the missing link between the two that was alluded, and something that might warrant a return to this is a gravel/adventure bike on 650b, perhaps something with more relaxed geo still, like a Curve Kevin. Gravel is a spectrum, after all...
I’ve got a gravel bike with flat bars. It rips, it’s as fast as any gravel bike but corners and handles like it’s on rails. The flat bar give you so much more confidence and control.
I only have a gravel bike and here's why... I ride majority on tarmac but the 20-30% that's off road is non negotiable, because of where I live. I tried the routes on a road bike and it was sketchy and very slow. This also gives me the ability to go on some fairly rogue trails if I'm feeling randy. They're comfortable, easy to ride and capable.
I am roadie. Most of the time I am always on road. I love speed and road bike is for me. Mountain bikes is for terrain riding hill climbing off roading everything. Gravel bikes are suitable for touring purposes. Comfortable ride, able to do off roading not mountain trails, fast enough to travel, can carry many bags which is suitable for touring, have drop bars for descending.
Riding CX bikes for years. CX/ gravel just better all around use expect for extreme trails or fastest road rides/TTS. MTB is more specific use bike. Pick one to do it all and suffer at the extreme ends or get two bikes is the question. Love the fact I can more parts around with little issues other canti/v brake to disc brake or vice versa problems.
Enduro rider here, i bought myself a gravel bike after i got an hardtail and sold the hardtail. the hardtail for me is boring enduro riding but the same trails i did with the hardtail got a lot more interesting when i'm on a gravel bike. ''Underbiking'' is fun.
I have both. But, adding a Jones bar to my hardtail really is a game changer. It's now more comfortable and capable on the road sections. Tons of different hand placement.
I own a Alloy Topstone 0 gravelbike. I have 2 wheelsets, one with road tires and one with graveltires. I have cracked one wheelset already on some trails and single tracks. For someone like me ( 59 years and very fit ) i think the mountain bike is the better choice on trails and single tracks. If you ride a bit offroad the gravelbike would be the right choice. I also think that it is a commercial thing from the bike brands. I have some friends they just took a mountainbike frameset and build it up as a gravelbike, just for the tire clearence
I reckon that a lot of people who are new to gravel bikes and drop bars find security in the flat handlebar, the leverage it offers and a certain sense of sitting in the bike rather than on top of it. If the terrain isn’t technical or rocky then a gravel bike with narrow flat bars could also be a suitable middle ground for many. Much like a hybrid but with the longer, lower geometry of a gravel bike.
Gravel bikes are off road bikes for covering longer distances. Mountain bikes are off road bikes for covering tougher terrain. The one I don't get is gravel bikes with suspension (beyond say a flexi stem). If it's rough enough that you need suspension, it's probably too rough for a gravel bike.
I use my gravel bike as a bikepacking bike, go for a ride down the beach on a chilled one, flying down blue runs keeping you on your toes, and just an all round great bike. I sold my hardtail as it’s just dull unless totally off-road. Riding to trails on tarmac with a hardtail is just boring in my eyes. Both can do okay in all areas, gravel bike does better in everything except rough trails. Gravel bike wins all day for me. If my gravel bike can’t cope with the trails then a full sus is required. I prefer downhill riding more than swooping trails though so 160mm travel FS 👌🏻
I have a Salsa Fargo with 100 mm front suspension and a set of straight forks ,drop bars (woodchipper) 2.25 mazcal tyres best of both worlds I just swap out forks and tyres for touring Happy days and the answer is N +1.
Seems like a choice between cow horns and front suspension- configure to suit your needs and the terrain. Rode a gravel bike in Montana recently after 4 yrs of exclusive mtn bike- loved the lightweight, nimble feel, speed, and drop bar comfort on roads but off road was severely limited. I think Gravel bikes fall into the fixie category- a niche option for a certain segment of the bike population.
I usually use the drops instead of the tops when riding my gravel bike offroad because of the better hand grip, stability and brake leverage. But i've got a fairly tall stack and wide bars with shallow flared drops (Ritchey Venturemax XL 52cm). I'd imagine that a "racier" setup with low stack and narrow road bike bars with lots of drop would be sketchy to ride offroad in the drops because your weight would be so far forwards.
i have both, and honestly my hardtail with a pair of spingrip on the bar beats the gravel everywhere (with the same tires event with a suspension (locked on road))
Personally I think it depends on whether you like drop or flat handlebared bikes, hybrids are the skinny unpopular brother of the mountain bike especially back in the 90's, if they were called Gravel bikes and marketed so, would they be more popular especially as the 700c wheels are still very much a thing.
Always in the drop position with the gravelbike, as I feel you have a lot more control. Then naturally your arms become more of a suspension. But what I do find is that always slower on the downhills than the MTB's, but faster on the uphills.
Who else remembers from way back when John Tomac raced with drop bars on his mountain bike? He was also racing the road with 7-11/Motorola and wanted to replicate his road position.
With all the bike types in the market today, everybody can ride their own ride. Good comparison. But kind of comparing apples and oranges. I got a gravel bike 3 years ago because I was tired of riding with cars. I have no interest in MTB. And living in Oregon (US) there are thousands of miles of gravel roads. (There are plenty of single track for the MTB crowd, like the Timber trail) One thing I notice is that most roadies set their gravel bikes up like a road bike. Drop bar gravel bikes should have a more relaxed position with the the handlebar height almost level with the seat. Gives better control on the downhill. Better balance for bikepacking. Would like to see a comparison of 2 gravel bikes. One with traditional front suspension and one with a Wren inverted front suspension. Cheers
Bought a gravel bike to do it all around Cornwall and it has not disappointed....however, rode my local MTB trail with it and noticed how sore my back and arms were after having no suspension and a narrow handlebar. Will deffo be getting a hardtail for trails, and keeping the gravel to be my go-to everyday do-it-aller! 🚲
Sticking a 24 degree flared bar on the gravel bike and riding it in the drops would’ve transformed the way it feels hitting that singletrack… It’s so much more confidence inspiring.
Watching this very late. You insisted a lot on tyre volume difference but actually your MTB had quite aggressive treads. You would have had a much smaller difference uphill with fast file tread like MTB tyres such as the Schwalbe Thunderburt, Continental Speed and Race King, etc, while keeping same volume.
I have 2 bikes. First MTB from riding in the woods, I turn off "road focus" and ride. Gravel have for long rides, most of the time trying to discover new paths around my home. Both give me something else, MTB allows me to turn off thinking and just ride, gravel allows me to find new places and beat my long ride records. The truth is that you will ride any bike on any road, rather the question is in what style you do it or what style you prefer.
On many occasions riding my XC bike I have overtaken road bikes on rural country roads simply because as you describe I can "turn off thinking", specifically about the road surface itself. For anything over say 25miles I'll take my road bike instead, simply because of the aerodynamic efficiency against potential headwinds.
For exactly that reason "everything you can do on a XC bike can be done on a gravel" I bought a gravel bike and it complements my trail bike so nicely. The XC bike is too close to my trail bike. And I love my gravel bike for commuting and urban biking. It also doubles as my XC bike, when my trail bike undergoes maintenance
I think area has a big impact as well, mine has loads of cracks in the concrete with the patches creating bumps and the bike friendlyness varies so I have to swap between bike path, road and shared path constantly. I started on an older ht mtb, 71 degree hta. When I went to rigid flatbar with skinny tyres, as you did, I noticed that suddenly all these bumps and cracks in the concrete in my area started popping out at me. It felt faster on good smooth road and concrete but more often I had to avoid things in the road or stop for obstructions. Pulled out the old hardtail, got the lightest 2.1inch smooth tyres I could find and got rid of the triple crank and suddenly it feels much faster and confident. I don't have to worry about anything short of a sinkhole and can move between terrain seamlessly to avoid obstruction. Having written all that I realise you sort of captured this by saying its about 'how' you ride, and area is an assumed factor I guess
Riding on hoods is much more comfortable than grips. People are caught in the marketing of mtb niches and tend to have too much bike. Go to somewhere flat like swinley forest and look at the 160mm+ enduro bikes being winched around a centre more tame than any xco course. I’ve just got a gravel bike; where I live I was riding my 140mm trail bike with the forks locked out but it was effort on road, on flat, uphill. Gravel is slightly hampered off road downhill but wins on all other bits of a door to door ride.
Kathrine was so precious. Thanks for the comparison. Most of the terrain you two were on would qualify as gravel. Need mud and roots to show where a gravel bike wouldn't be good at. Conversely, tarmac roads would be an area a mountain bike would bog down.
Maybe swap the bars for the next video? Drop bar hardtail mtb vs flat bar gravel bike and see how it goes? Maybe swap the tires too. Drop bar mtb use smaller tire like 29x2.00 and the flat bar use 27.5x2.20. Add some dropper post for the cherry on top 😁
The problem with this discussion/debate is we're not only talking apples and oranges, we've gotten tangerines thrown into the mix. For starters, are we racing or touring? And is it really touring -- slower with smoother trails/roads -- or is it bikepacking -- even slower but with lots of chunky stuff? The reality is there is no one bike that covers all riding conditions. Every situation will involve an element of compromise. You choose your bike hoping you've optimized it to handle most situations/conditions you will encounter. Happy trails to you...
9:04 something in between both would be a cross bike (not to be confused with cyclocross bikes!). 28" wheels, flat handlebars, a suspension fork that's lighter than that of an XC MTB but still provides offroad capability. I love mine, sold my hardtail as I'd always use either the cross bike or a full suspension MTB, and the hardtail was just collecting dust from standing around. Sadly, the species appears to be slowly dying out in favour of gravelbikes.
I like my Giant Revolt gravel bike a lot, but I feel very under-gunned on anything remotely technical off-road. It would help a ton if it had a dropper post, but this particular bike has a D-shaped rather than round seat tube so it's not possible to get an after-market dropper post for it, as far as I know. For folks that want to get a little spicy off road on their gravel bike I would recommend considering a dropper post as a big upgrade for off-road capability.
I have both but I cant just get over modern MTB geometry. I understand its better for technical single trail, but I dont do that. Pedalling is really like dancing as you mentioned in the video, its a chore.
Super video guys and great music choices. Hardtails and gravel bikes are difficult to compare. In my tracks in the sud of the france you are very limited with a gravel bike and must stay on large and clean dfci. The singles tracks are too technic and it’s impossible to follow a mountain bike in those tracks. It’s incredibly fun with an Hardtail, and the hardtails of nowadays are so efficient in technical tracks. I choosed the hardtail (exceed slx) and i am very very happy with my choice. MTB are for real off-road rides and gravel for mixing road and clean off-road rides.
Actually somewhere Jimmy says the ideal would be "In between". Actually I use Giant XR1 (2011, positioned as a hybrid bike) as commuter bike / don't worry about the surface in the weekend bike. For perfect weather I have my carbon road bike, for anything else the Giant is the go-to bike. With 42mm Pathfinder Pro tires it rolls very well on tarmac (center part = slick), has grip on gravelly bits. It is not a big mountain bike, but still has 60 mm of travel in the front fork. Oh, and Nowt Daft 🙂!
I tend to use the drops when descending, I have much better control and can shift my weight easier. Gravel bikes are more fun, but require skill. Also take more focus and are more tiring going down, and on a rough multiday adventure I had elbow discomfort.
The problem with the current mountain bikes is that little front ring ,when I raced xc I had a triple up front with narrower semi slicks,so if conditions required you could really crack on.
Also Gravel bikes seems more appropriate for bike commuting in my opinion. So it's the Gravel bike for me since I don't go to trails that often and also if you're only planning to buy a single bike maybe the Gravel bike will suit ya
Would be cool to see you guys do something with drop bar MTBs now that you have discussed the Gravel/MTB differences in this video. Something like a Surly Ghost Grappler, Salsa Fargo or Cutthroat.
Yes! They even mentioned "something inbetween could really be ideal" - that exists, they are drop-bar MTBs. Also Poseidon Redwood: rigid frame but closer to MTB geometry and clearance for pretty big tires.
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One thing about Gravel Bikes that doesn't get much mention is that they are pretty much the ideal touring setup. Comfortable enough, fast enough.
You could certainly make it work, however for long distance touring the rear end will be a bit too short.
One thing that also doesn't get any mention, is that you can fit drop handlebar extensions to flat XC bars.
Good touring bikes often have more attachment points for gear than gravel bikes do.
Depends on what surface you are touring on! The majority of tour divide peeps use a mtb because of comfort and that's actual gravel
@@jon_underscore the salsa journeyer has a million bolts everywhere. Some brands are better about it than others
After two year riding a gravel…..I came back to xc bike….so comfortable
2yrs xc, converted to full rigid for 2 more years, now 2 years on gravel and contemplating on getting suspension forks 😅 I guess this is just a cycle
@@d1r3wolf8 haha fax
Speed isn't everything to everyone. Hardtail XC MTB is a comfortable commuter and excellent bike packing rig. Your choice should be based not only on what riding you'll mostly do but also which bike gives you the most confidence.
As a gravel bike rider, I completely agree with you. I used a hardtail with different tires for it.
The way I see it, with an XC bike you can put thinner/slicker tires, different bar and just lock the suspension and you have a gravel bike. You can never turn a gravel bike into a capable mountain bike.
For bike packing I always pick my Gravel Bike. For single tracks off course a Hardtail
@@Qlickyyour comment summs it up perfectly!
@@Qlickyright. IMHO the real question is what you want to ride. An XC bikes with the appropriate tyres isn’t a good commuter while it will smoke every gravel on rough terrain. A gravel is a good commuter and will easily outstrip the XC on gravel. Imho a gravel bike is the better choice for everyone who doesn’t want to do real off-road.
All the videos Francis has been making are like creating the basics for people getting into riding and being a go to rather than someone like GCN, which I applaud him for. Different perspective for people and something that’s not just sponsor based
I mean francis also has sponsorships from garmin and scott. Just something to keep in mind.
I'm an avid road cyclist, but want to get in to something off road. So yeah this is useful to me without being new to cycling.
@@shimona500 he’s got sponsorships but so far haven’t seen him say that a Scott foil is going to magically make you super quick or that it’s next thing since sliced bread. He’s sponsored but doesn’t live and breathe them.
@@thebudgetcyclist4310yep most GCN vids are ads, sometimes set in some interesting context... Some times not.
GCN was also like that, before Eurosport bought them few years ago👍
A big part of this comes down to “where” you are going to ride most of the time. Gravel bikes are designed to ride “gravel” and there’s not a lot of that in the UK. If you are riding “off road” - trails, mud, single track, rocks, downhill then the hardtail seems a better choice. For a mixture of Road and not very technical trails I can see the advantages for the gravel bike too.
I am in Croatia at coast in south , and I cannot remember any significant gravel road here . Nice MTB hardtail and you can even commute in city , better than with any other bike . It's bike for all purposes , and most people like that - to be able to just jump to sidewalk , to ride in really bad roads , to just go in parks and nature . And 99% of people do not need 10 kg carbon mtb hardtail , they would be good aluminium , 14 kg bike , and bike will be durable and safe to ride for decade or longer . I hate to see that guy in video was so desperate and frustrated when he saw that his bike is 'heavy' at 10 kg . I have seen too many people here ( Dubrovnik ) who buy great bikes and then they are not riding it . I have 1000$ MTB and I like it . Bike riding does not suppose to be easy as walk at park at slow pace . It's heavy sometimes , I just jump off my bike at uphill and walk beside the bike . Why would I spend all my energy on one impossible hill .
Exactly!! Over here in Canada we have thousands of KM of gravel roads… where a gravel is the perfect tool.
Horses for courses, yes. I don't see gravel bikes as gravel surface specific though. I think of them as meant for smooth off road withouth very steep climbs/descents or technical sections. Whether the tracks are gravel or more clay based it goes down to tyre choice, I think.
I live in the UK and I find most off road riding hardly justifies a MTB, apart from comfort. It is mostly flat with the odd hill in between and hardly any big boulders, except perhaps in Scotland, Wales, and the odd bit in Northern England. I am able to ride slick road tyres in most of flat off road tracks, unless it is winter. I never found myself unable to ride off road with my gravel tyres, even when I was living in an area with rolling hills. It is not the most comfortable ride though.
I come from a mountaineous region in sourthern europe where even a hardtail is often lacking off road, let alone a gravel bike. 1800m of elevation over 75k is very much the norm and there are rocks and boulders everywhere. Gravel bikes are only suited to forest tracks, which means most riders have road or MTB only.
MTB are definitely more suited and more comfortable off road, although they are also more costly to maintain due to suspension forks and/or shocks, which I don't think many realise and could perhaps been highlighted. Unless the terrain asks for one, I prefer a drop bar bike with wider tyres. More versatile and easier to maintain.
I don't think hardtails and gravel bikes are comparable at all, they are just suited to different terrains.
I like to ride my gravel bike on my local trails. I am under biked and it's awesome!!
@Andrew Brown There is plenty of gravel in the UK.
I never thought I needed or wanted a gravel bike, but bought one on a whim which was on sale. I have a whole stable of bikes, including top end XC bikes, enduro bike, single speed etc, and despite living right next to one of the best MTB parks in the world, I have found I spend most my time on the gravel bike. Its the bike I needed without knowing I needed it! I love the speed and versatility of the gravel bike and can link long rides together that involve road, gravel, single track etc - it does it all pretty well.
The in-between is a full rigid mountain bike. You can put whatever size tire you want, and no extra weight from the squishy suspension. And they're great for bikepacking.
Like a fat tire bike?
@@Anon26335 that or something like a salsa Fargo or surly ghost grappler.
Bridge Club, Brother Cycles Big Bro, Ogre
I see your fully rigid, and raise you singlespeed.
Yep, specifically a frame with a fork that isn't suspension corrected
I was asking myself the same question only a week back.
I've ridden an awful lot on various versions of road bikes, and, inevitably, using them on gravel tracks and muddy trails (aka National Cycle Network). What gets me every time is the mud which just gums everything up and, with mudguards (fenders) on normally finds me grinding to a gritty stop. In addition there are the inevitable ruts from tree roots or from larger vehicles (cyclo-cross bikes and off-roader cars).
And so I opted for a hardtail MTB. Nothing too fancy - but not entry level - I've found the large nobbly tyres, super-wide straight handlebars and generous gear ratios a real epoc-defining change in riding experience. That coupled with the front suspension and more upright riding position (my back's not what it once was) has enabled me to just plough through and over everything. Indeed, where once I avoided ruts, puddles and divets, I now actively seek them out - it's just so much fun.
Finally, living in Chopwell (which has very similar terrain to Hamsterley, but probably more water and therefore mud, and certainly hills) I think that the MTB just lends itself to the terrain perfectly.
Finally, someone mentioned that I'd joined "the dark side". Seems like there is a different culture between roadies and MTB'ers which may be worth covering off in one of your fine episodes.
Loving the evolving channel guys!
There’s only so much that fat tires can compensate for, and on longer rides it doesn’t take a very rough surface to get uncomfortable on a gravel bike, so the answer which bike to choose should be based entirely on where it’s going to be used most and not what tools and spares we have laying around.
with my old worn out body, with damage from accidents and age, i use a hard tail mountain bike with gravel tires. works great, upright position comfy for my back and wrists. gearing and crankset adjusted for better road/gravel riding, thats all you need
A suggestion for comparisons - don't do elite bikes. Anyone that can afford and has the use case for one of these could likely afford both, or at least a step down of each. A more useful comparison would be for the guy who can only afford one bike - compare s $1000 hard tail to a $1000 gravel bike.
Another interesting comparison would be to throw a flat bar gravel into the mix - splitting some of the difference.
As someone who’s ridden and raced mountain bikes for around a decade, I’ve just switched to a road bike.. the sketchy feeling of a gravel bike on a trail is how I feel on the road lol! Everything feels too far forward and really unstable! But I’m loving the speed!
I'm still used to mtb harddtails with 20-10 old geo and I even find them too steep and twitchy, but I have to say it was intoxicating jumping on a road/hybrid and feeling what it was like on a bike so light that a single pedal stroke would let me coast up an incline and slice back and forth through turns with barely any mass to feel in the way, but good god that feels dangerous to someone used to knobs that hook into everything for traction. The hybrid/gravel rocket feeling offroad is addicting if you got the privilege of places to use it but I always have the fear that slick/tiny knob tires will suddenly give out and send me into a guard rail/ditch
What will happen if you attach skinny tires to mtb ? How will it perform on right road with zero elevation ?
@@sauravbasu8805 I used to run a rigid MTB on 26, "28mm slicks, probably 2-4mph slower on the flat than my road bike.
You might like a flat bar gravel for a more upright position
2:45 Mtb tip - use the fork lockout when chlimbing. Otherwise casual and fun video, pleasure to watch.
Missed opportunity here is having a dropper seat post on the MTB, makes a massive difference in my experience
And locking out the fork when climbing to prevent the bob when pedaling.
An XC hardtail is far more versatile because it can ride road (not as fast, but can do it) and handle far rougher terrain. If you're talking versatility, the hardtail beats a gravel bike every day of the week.
What it comes down to is expectations. Where I live, it's fairly flat. So I just use my fixie as a single speed for roads. Gears aren't that necessary.
If I'm riding somewhere and I don't know what the roads are going to be like, then I take the XC bike with 100mm suspension that I converted to single speed (again, flat terrain) with XC tires with smaller knobs than the ones on the bike in the video. It's basically my, "I don't know what road conditions are like and I'm riding in an area where hopping onto a curb at a moment's notice might be necessary" bike. I'm not worried about speed, so a gravel bike is fairly useless to me. Plus, that "slack" 69 degree head angle is far more stable at speed on the few downhill spots I find, or when I'm sending stairs because I'm cutting across a plaza.
Its cool to see these kind of comparisons.
I bought a gravel bike 3 years ago after riding mountainbikes for years and years.
After about 2000km on the gravel bike i put on flat bars, and I love it even more now. And thats because it suits me and what I come from.
So it''s all about prefecene :D
Nice videos!
You can fit drop handlebar extensions to flat bars, the only benefit is aerodynamics against a headwind.
@@JP-hr7ch uhm, okay. But I just switched from dropbars to flats, so I don't need that 🙂
@@jensthimmvalsted1000 LOL It's just a potential option, but whilst aerodynamically functional in a headwind, they're not aesthetically good looking at all :(
@@JP-hr7ch my GT grade that I converted to flat bars looks pretty good.
@@johnfowler4820 Ye flat bars always look better.
An XC bike with aero bars and semi-slick tyres is also really fast and capable. Particularly if it gets steep on the downhill, the gravel bike is going to run out of back wheel grip, and any front brakes will send you over the bars, while the XC bike will stay in control.
I can attest to the back wheel of a gravel bike losing grip on a steep downhill and sweeping away from under you like a tablecloth trick under the silverware.
Luckily I fell next to the sharp rocks and not on top of them.
By aero bars you mean like the TT kind of aero bars?
Yep, something for the flats so you can get your body forward.
I went with tt bars on a 2016 giant xtc. Bike packing, commuting. Very useful for distance & for boosting av. speed!
What is your opignion on Schwalbe Thunder Burt tires as a choice for XC hardtail...
@@stefanlukic7272 love thr Thunder Burts! Have always ridden them on my xc full sus Cannondale Scalpel. Finished 23rd overall at Dirty Kanza one year. They're fast, with good traction and stability. Just ordered another set for my new Trek Super Caliber. I will also ride my Super Caliber on gravel 100%.
Can I just say the quality of these videos is amazing, the shot of Jimmy at 11:26 captures the joy of cycling so well. Love it!
Of course, down to individual preference and where you're going to be riding most, but I love the versatility of the gravel bike on paths, trails, and roads and over longer distances the road handlebars are more comfortable. Definitely limited on trails and downhill but if you're choosing one bike that will kind of take you everywhere, I'd say gravel is the one.
One thing to consider is the strengt of the wheels. Gravel bikes are built lighter. If the bike gets a lot of rough handling off road the wheels are probably not strong enough.
I would ride an upright XC-MTB with a narrower handle bar and narrower fast rolling tires.
I have ridden a £1500 gravel bike on red trails, no bother. 35mm tyres, too.
Great explanation of the differences guys! So much of it comes down to the terrain you intend to ride. For me the ‘gravel’ riding is so light in Sydney you can easily manage it on your road bike, but then the jump to anything off road is dramatic … often loose sandstone singletrack. I’m leaving towards going the hard tail route, but like Francis alluded to its the compatibility and familiarity jump when going MTB that I’m afraid of.
What about a rigid 26er?
Something in between would be an older hardtail, or older ridgid mtb. I have ridden both and they have narrower bars, more upright geo, and smoother tires. I use the ridgid as a gravel bike but from the opposite side. The rear 1.9in tire works great for bad roads and hardpack. These bikes used to be more common, but mountain bikes focused more on downhill prowess and left a void that the gravel bike has now filled.
Something about Jimmy's face that always makes me smile, he always looks like he's enjoying himself and brings a boyish curiosity! Keep up the good work fellas
👋
I have a 29er hardtail and a road bike. I used to have a gravel bike also, but I sold it. I was only 2 minutes faster on my daily commute on the gravel bike compared to the hardtail, and the hardtail is more fun, so I sold the gravel bike.
My hardtail pretty much rides like a hybrid bike with the 1x12 shimano XT setup, remote lock of the fork and 2.1 tyres. Great bike
how long was your commute overall? I'm killing myself on whether to get a gravel or mtb for my new bike. I have trails 10-30 minutes away from me (on bike). Have ridden MTB most of my life, but my mtb is 23 years old so not too different from a gravel bike in terms of thin (flat) handlebar, smaller wheels. I threw some cheap front suspension on it years ago. I'm trying to decide between an xc flattail like the trek x-caliber or procaliber, or an equivalent gravel like the trek checkpoint.
If I go with the MTB I'm going to opt for slimmer wheels, probably ~50-55cm / 2 to 2.3nch range, get some bar clips for hand positions, maybe slim the bar a little.
@@osafoca 26km each way, 52km in total
I love my gravel bike for multiple uses and being underbiked is kinda fun. My mountain bike feels like a tank now, even on trail .
I think the big reason gravel bikes are popular is because companies aren't making touring bikes anymore.
My road bike is a Cannondale SuperSix, which while a very fun and enjoyable bike to ride, has been built with speed as it's priority. It's optimized for best performance at around 20mph and faster. It's a bit too stiff to be comfortable over long distances, it's a bit too aggressive in position which leads to the same issue of comfort. It's only got the capacity for carrying 2 bottle cages, the rest of the frame left as smooth as possible for aerodynamics. It's built to go fast, comfort and carrying capacity comes at the expense.
When I go touring I'm not riding at 20 mph, I'm probably averaging more like 12. I don't care about going fast, I'm not trying to win a race, I'm too busy enjoying the atmosphere, taking in the sights and sounds and smells and enjoying my holiday. In that context, much better to have 40mm tyres not 25s, much better to have that relaxed geometry and longer wheelbase. Much better to fit pannier racks or frame bags and carry all the food, clothes, spare parts, etc I will need.
Which, speaking of, might make for a good comparison. An old school touring bike like a Dawes Galaxy or something, up against a modern gravel bike. I wonder just how close or not they are in terms of comfort
I was not equiped with much stuff before getting my gravel bike. I have an old hard-tail that I use sometimes on relatively easy trails (with variable quantities of mud and/or water). The gravel allows me to go far and fast with the option to be comfy on bad roads and take trails when they are available. Far from motorized trafic as much as possible. Like a road bike but very comfortable and able to go off road, without sacrificing to much in terms of efficiency on the road.
I use my gravel bike as a long distance road bike mostly. When doing really long rides I don't know the route beforehand, so there is a high chance to see some gravel/dirt roads. Also the more comfortable position, low gearing and bigger tire clearance works well for that. I tried taking it on gnarlier stuff too but did not like it at all, I much prefer a mtb for that.
That's what has me considering a gravel bike too (in my case probably building something budget using older parts), I think I'd enjoy a road bike for long distance but... this is probably a pretty global thing, but around where I am in the US, there's a *lot* of rough roads. You'd think a 4-lane mini-highway ("stroad") would be nice and smooth and fast, but there's potholes and crappy patch jobs and ripples at stoplights, etc etc... I wouldn't dare trying to take on some of these streets without a bit more grip and cushion, at least at my skill level. Way nicer to be a bit overbiked for rough terrain when you don't know the condition of the roads ahead, and having that option to say "I'm not touching that" when you come across some 60MPH highway route all of a sudden and you've got some gravel trail nearby as a safer route.
Likewise I'm coming from usually riding an MTB, so that's also a factor. Gravel bike is the good compromise for someone with a MTB background looking to pick up a bit more speed without going all the way into a road bike.
One thing to note about gravel bikes is that old non-boost MTB wheels fit thruaxle gravel bikes as long as you can swap the front hub end caps to match the fork. Rear wheels are the same as the old 12x142 MTB standard that was replaced with 12x148 Boost. So if you have access to older non-boost MTB wheels then those make a good alternative for rougher gravel roads. Depending on cassette choice some fit directly and some just require a freehub body swap to work.
I've found that where I live a Gravel bike is perfect for everything I'd do with an XC bike. Said XC bike hasn't been in the wild since I got the Gravel bike. Riding trails in the drops is super fun and I love long tours on mixed terrain.
As I've gotten to be of the older persuasion, I have less interest in absolutely going fast, and more interest in going comfortably but still getting good aerobic exercise. Additionally, I want to avoid punctures as much as possible. Toward that end, I now have both a hard tail and a full sus. mtb. The upright position my be less "aero", but is more comfortable than dipping into the drops; the more robust tires are less prone to punctures; the suspension smooths out bumps on the road and rocks and roots off-road. Yeah, they're slower than their road and gravel bike brethren on pavement, but one can still get good exercise while enjoying the scenery. After I turned 60, ten years ago, my whole motivation for cycling has changed. Of the two bikes you tested, I'd go for the XC mtb. If I only cared about riding on pavement, I'd just install skinnier, less knobby tires.
I'm a MTB rider myself, so it's super interesting seeing this comparison from more of the roadie perspective! Same definitely applies in reverse with your conclusion at the end; if you've got some trail MTBs already, something along the lines of an XC mountain bike is the easier transition because they likewise share so many parts from stuff you've already got. If I were to go for a gravel bike for example, I'd be starting from scratch, not necessarily having road bike tools or parts laying around. Though I think there's some gravel bikes that borrow more from the MTB parts bin? So there's that to consider as well.
I ride MTB and Road and I really hate that there is so much prejudices against the other in both worlds.
the tools are the same btw ;)
@@5amba True enough, the tools don't actually change (unless it's something super-specific). Mostly just parts
@@5ambait’s all riding
Love your little outings testing stuff/comparing bikes etc, I'm an avid mtb'r but jumped on the whole gravel bike band wagon last year and I'm totally loving it!
Hmmmm, I have to admit that I have all 3-Specialized Roubaix for road, Planet X Tempest for winter road and gravel, and a Sonder Signal Ti Hardtail 29’er for anything else. The Tempest will take a 50mm x 700c tyre with mud clearance so it has to be really muddy or knarly for me to use the Signal which has 2.3 and 2.5 tyres on and will take a 3.0…. Something Jimmy said struck me when he said the hardtail just ploughs through anything-that’s how I feel about the Signal-I call it my truck! The other thing is the weight-the Tempest weighs between 10.3 and 11.5kg depending on the tyres I have on, and the Signal weighs 14.3kg so both of your bikes are basically 4kg lighter!! The other side of the weight is of course that the Ti bikes are both basically indestructible. Where we ride which is Cambs-Beds-Norfolk-Northants we have to do a lot of road miles to link up trails and bridleways so a gravel bike works best for us round here.
Francis nailed it, if you're on an actual "trail", suspension fork and flat bar all the way. If you're staying on "gravel" or flat forest roads, knobby tires on a road frame!
Most offroad routes around me are twisty and undulating, with a fair share of rocks and roots. I have just a very minimal amount of long, straight, fast gravel routes around me. Because of this, I am doing higher average speeds using my Specialized Chisel than using my Diverge. The latter can also do some pretty rough terrain using knobbly 45mm tires, but way slower. The Diverge only becomes faster when i reach more than 50% paved surface on my ride. I also have to add that this is only true when I use very fast XC tires on the hardtail- something like an Aspen or a Race King. Using this type of tire + innerbarends gets you very close to the tarmac speeds of a gravel bike, with this setup I can easily keep up with my gravel buddies on a group ride, even on straightline paved roads.
My take is, gravel bikes are best if you want to go very long distances, with a large(50+) percentage of tarmac involved. If it’s mostly off road, I just get the Chisel, even for 100km+ rides.
It's about fun, not speed.
I love watching your videos as a mountain biker because it's funny hearing you call an XC race machine with a 69 degree head angle "slack" when I'm use to riding bikes with 63-65 degree head angles that weigh 35lbs.
MTB inspired gravel bikes such as the Canyon Grizl with a 30mm suspension option and clearance for chunky 50mm tyres are a blend of the two. Possibly my next bike purchase.
Coming from a mtb to GRVL I found running wide and flaired drop bars makes a big difference with the stability you mentioned, especially noticeable on single-track
When it comes to defining a gravel bike, I think the best way to think of it is that bikes sit somewhere on the following spectrum
Track bikes -> road bikes -> all road bikes -> off road bikes
Gravel (depending on the bike) sits between all road and off road on the spectrum. Same can be said for hardtails but they sit close to the offroad end of the spectrum.
So that answer to your question is where does your riding or where do you want your riding to sit on that spectrum
I just sold my cross country hardtail, because for cross country riding my gravel bike is perfect (including light trails). Plus it's great for commuting and touring, basically 3 bikes in 1. I kept my Enduro hardtail for the gnarly stuff.
My gravel bike has such a comfortable and laid back geometry, so it's super comfy on either short or very long trips. And it has eyelets, so I can put on a rack or fenders if needed.
If we are talking about trails (even pretty simple ones), then xc bike is much more confident and fun. Gravel bikes for long rides on not very bumpy roads. So, now I have an endurance road bike and full sus (100/100) xc bike.
You fellas are smashing it….
Loving the team work since Jimmy has joined forces 👌🏽
Cracking video-editing as well as inspiration Francis as always.
Thanks for your work Francis ✌🏽
Thanks so much for watching 👊
I just recently turned my hardtail into a gravel.
With a 142mm rear hub spacing, I managed to fit 700c road wheel with 35mm gravel tyres. fitted SRAM XPLR groupset.
Kinda unique setup but it suit my use on road, light trail and jumping around urban kerbs.
Great video! I am an MTB lifer, currently in season 2 of cyclocross racing, and looking at a gravel bike is getting harder and harder to ignore. The problem is though, I spent all my money on an MTB for summer, and a fatbike for winter. The struggle is real!
I got a Canyon Pathlite 6 as of recently. Best buy ever. Gravel bikes aren't my thing. Most of them have very similar gear ratios compared to road bikes. Quite a few of them have easier gears than road bikes but for the place where I live, it's not enough.
The Canyon Pathlite 6 has it all. It's 1X (my fav kind of chainring), 36T and 12 gears (10-51T). A perfect mix between a road bike and a MTB. Relatively fast, and very comfortable with its 40mm tyres and huge clearance for basically every type of tyre. Super easy gears for the tougher climbs or paths.
Also Canyon has the Roadlite 6, which is again a step in the right direction. 1X too, 46T chainring and 12 gears (10-51T). Sooo fast, and even faster than my road bike (whose faster gear is 48-11). Also it climbs better than my 34-34T easiest gear on my road bike vs 46-51T of the Roadlite.
Plus both the Pathlite and Roadlite (specially this one) are gorgeous bikes.
I own both. The hardtail is better in every way, unless you're regularly doing 50km+ rides. The gravel bike will struggle if the off-road terrain if not perfectly smooth.
Should've used the same tire on both and compare. Also, many xc bike forks lockout for climbing for max power transfer.
If you plan to ride single track trails gotta go with the Mt bike. If you're pretty much riding road and dirt road terrain- gravel bike.
The gravel bike I think was an American thing because we have so many gravel/dirt roads created by the logging and forest service that a road bike that can better handle dirt was needed.
The versatility of a gravel bike just does it for me. I have a nice road bike but went bikepacking with my new gravel for the first time, 750km in 5 days to the mt. Ventoux. There my mates who arrived by car brought me my road wheelset to go on road rides with them.
Bags, wild camping, mud, mountains - street climbs and beautiful roads in the provence, all on one bike in one holiday
As an owner of dual sus xc, hardtail xc, “suspended and dropped” gravel bike, ti gravel+ bike and various road bikes….from 25c to 2.4” tire, all with and without droppers, mid to top range mechanical shifting and top end electronic shifters, it comes down to only 1 thing. Just ride your bike. Unless you are racing at the extreme end of the field, and even then, just ride. It’s why we started, to ride.
Getting the right bike is often a tough thing because you often have bigger ambitions than the reality shows. I've spent years riding an xc when the reality would better be covered by a road bike or if today - a gravel bike.
Then I spent years with a full suspension enduro bike when a full suspension xc bike would be better suited or down country as it is today.
Now I got an endurance (like a gravel bike, just in the most road-like segment) and a road bike. And I'm looking at building that down country bike for my trips in the woods. so finally I might have the right bikes ;)
“Gravel” bike were born from the road bikes that used to be sold as “endurance” (concept now defunct), and are made to compete to an extent with cross country bikes, although at the cost of comfort and efficiency.
Bought a gravel bike, which is my only bike now. I don’t ride that much technical off-roads. Stock tires were 35mm, then I bought a second set of wheels with 28mm slick tires. My gravel bike can turn into a road bike! I’m not into racing so it works for me. 😃
Having just posted a video about whether gravel is the only bike you need anymore, I must admit that a little more ‘give’ in the front end of a gravel bike might be quite welcome.
I’m not sure if it would need to be a full front sus fork, but just something to dampen the front end knocks. 👌🏻
Didn't they release a gravel bike with 70mm travel suspension on the front a while back? I'm sure I remember these guys or maybe gcn doing a video on it.
@@davidmidcalf3470 now you mention it, I do vaguely recall that now.
I think that’s all it would need, or less even, just to stop the biggest jolts on the wrists. I’ve just ordered a suspension seat post for my gravel bike too, so I’m hoping that’ll take good care of my undercarriage too 😂 but only time will tell!
I hear it all the time that a gravel bike is more versatile than a mountain bike. I don't think it's the case. On a mountain bike you can ride everything that a gravel bike does (although a bit slower) but you can ride plenty of stuff you wouldn't think of riding on a gravel bike. It's horses for courses for each bikes intended purpose, but the MTB can do far more.
Good video guys. I’ve got a gravel bike and love it. Gravel tyres for winter riding, then switch to slicks for the summer. Super comfy for a middle aged man like myself, and does most things I’d want to do off road. It’s just when it gets sloppy, that it’s a struggle to ride off road.
Nice one. I think the missing link between the two that was alluded, and something that might warrant a return to this is a gravel/adventure bike on 650b, perhaps something with more relaxed geo still, like a Curve Kevin. Gravel is a spectrum, after all...
I’ve got a gravel bike with flat bars. It rips, it’s as fast as any gravel bike but corners and handles like it’s on rails. The flat bar give you so much more confidence and control.
I only have a gravel bike and here's why...
I ride majority on tarmac but the 20-30% that's off road is non negotiable, because of where I live. I tried the routes on a road bike and it was sketchy and very slow.
This also gives me the ability to go on some fairly rogue trails if I'm feeling randy.
They're comfortable, easy to ride and capable.
I am roadie. Most of the time I am always on road. I love speed and road bike is for me. Mountain bikes is for terrain riding hill climbing off roading everything.
Gravel bikes are suitable for touring purposes. Comfortable ride, able to do off roading not mountain trails, fast enough to travel, can carry many bags which is suitable for touring, have drop bars for descending.
Riding CX bikes for years. CX/ gravel just better all around use expect for extreme trails or fastest road rides/TTS. MTB is more specific use bike. Pick one to do it all and suffer at the extreme ends or get two bikes is the question. Love the fact I can more parts around with little issues other canti/v brake to disc brake or vice versa problems.
Enduro rider here, i bought myself a gravel bike after i got an hardtail and sold the hardtail. the hardtail for me is boring enduro riding but the same trails i did with the hardtail got a lot more interesting when i'm on a gravel bike. ''Underbiking'' is fun.
The two of you make the perfect couple, Oliver Hardy couldn't have done it better. Keep up the good work👍
I have both. But, adding a Jones bar to my hardtail really is a game changer. It's now more comfortable and capable on the road sections. Tons of different hand placement.
I own a Alloy Topstone 0 gravelbike. I have 2 wheelsets, one with road tires and one with graveltires. I have cracked one wheelset already on some trails and single tracks. For someone like me ( 59 years and very fit ) i think the mountain bike is the better choice on trails and single tracks. If you ride a bit offroad the gravelbike would be the right choice. I also think that it is a commercial thing from the bike brands. I have some friends they just took a mountainbike frameset and build it up as a gravelbike, just for the tire clearence
I reckon that a lot of people who are new to gravel bikes and drop bars find security in the flat handlebar, the leverage it offers and a certain sense of sitting in the bike rather than on top of it. If the terrain isn’t technical or rocky then a gravel bike with narrow flat bars could also be a suitable middle ground for many. Much like a hybrid but with the longer, lower geometry of a gravel bike.
Gravel bikes are off road bikes for covering longer distances. Mountain bikes are off road bikes for covering tougher terrain.
The one I don't get is gravel bikes with suspension (beyond say a flexi stem). If it's rough enough that you need suspension, it's probably too rough for a gravel bike.
I use my gravel bike as a bikepacking bike, go for a ride down the beach on a chilled one, flying down blue runs keeping you on your toes, and just an all round great bike. I sold my hardtail as it’s just dull unless totally off-road. Riding to trails on tarmac with a hardtail is just boring in my eyes. Both can do okay in all areas, gravel bike does better in everything except rough trails. Gravel bike wins all day for me.
If my gravel bike can’t cope with the trails then a full sus is required. I prefer downhill riding more than swooping trails though so 160mm travel FS 👌🏻
I have a Salsa Fargo with 100 mm front suspension and a set of straight forks ,drop bars (woodchipper) 2.25 mazcal tyres best of both worlds I just swap out forks and tyres for touring Happy days and the answer is N +1.
Seems like a choice between cow horns and front suspension- configure to suit your needs and the terrain. Rode a gravel bike in Montana recently after 4 yrs of exclusive mtn bike- loved the lightweight, nimble feel, speed, and drop bar comfort on roads but off road was severely limited. I think Gravel bikes fall into the fixie category- a niche option for a certain segment of the bike population.
I usually use the drops instead of the tops when riding my gravel bike offroad because of the better hand grip, stability and brake leverage. But i've got a fairly tall stack and wide bars with shallow flared drops (Ritchey Venturemax XL 52cm). I'd imagine that a "racier" setup with low stack and narrow road bike bars with lots of drop would be sketchy to ride offroad in the drops because your weight would be so far forwards.
Agreein the drops of a wide flared dropbar for better control.. that's the way to ride trails on a gravelbike 👍🏼
I ride trails with 380 bars, no flare just fine
i have both, and honestly my hardtail with a pair of spingrip on the bar beats the gravel everywhere (with the same tires event with a suspension (locked on road))
Personally I think it depends on whether you like drop or flat handlebared bikes, hybrids are the skinny unpopular brother of the mountain bike especially back in the 90's, if they were called Gravel bikes and marketed so, would they be more popular especially as the 700c wheels are still very much a thing.
Always in the drop position with the gravelbike, as I feel you have a lot more control. Then naturally your arms become more of a suspension.
But what I do find is that always slower on the downhills than the MTB's, but faster on the uphills.
Who else remembers from way back when John Tomac raced with drop bars on his mountain bike? He was also racing the road with 7-11/Motorola and wanted to replicate his road position.
What a boss! "Gravel" goes way back 🤯🤯
With all the bike types in the market today, everybody can ride their own ride. Good comparison. But kind of comparing apples and oranges.
I got a gravel bike 3 years ago because I was tired of riding with cars. I have no interest in MTB. And living in Oregon (US) there are thousands of miles of gravel roads. (There are plenty of single track for the MTB crowd, like the Timber trail)
One thing I notice is that most roadies set their gravel bikes up like a road bike. Drop bar gravel bikes should have a more relaxed position with the the handlebar height almost level with the seat. Gives better control on the downhill. Better balance for bikepacking.
Would like to see a comparison of 2 gravel bikes. One with traditional front suspension and one with a Wren inverted front suspension.
Cheers
The Yt-Szepter (which is what I ride on road n gravel) combines both - has front suspension, drop bars and wireless axs - best of both..!
I run ardent race 2.3's on my ti hard tail...rips on everything from gravel to expert single track. For me it's the perfect do it all non-road bike.
Bought a gravel bike to do it all around Cornwall and it has not disappointed....however, rode my local MTB trail with it and noticed how sore my back and arms were after having no suspension and a narrow handlebar. Will deffo be getting a hardtail for trails, and keeping the gravel to be my go-to everyday do-it-aller! 🚲
Sticking a 24 degree flared bar on the gravel bike and riding it in the drops would’ve transformed the way it feels hitting that singletrack… It’s so much more confidence inspiring.
Watching this very late. You insisted a lot on tyre volume difference but actually your MTB had quite aggressive treads. You would have had a much smaller difference uphill with fast file tread like MTB tyres such as the Schwalbe Thunderburt, Continental Speed and Race King, etc, while keeping same volume.
I have 2 bikes. First MTB from riding in the woods, I turn off "road focus" and ride. Gravel have for long rides, most of the time trying to discover new paths around my home. Both give me something else, MTB allows me to turn off thinking and just ride, gravel allows me to find new places and beat my long ride records.
The truth is that you will ride any bike on any road, rather the question is in what style you do it or what style you prefer.
On many occasions riding my XC bike I have overtaken road bikes on rural country roads simply because as you describe I can "turn off thinking", specifically about the road surface itself. For anything over say 25miles I'll take my road bike instead, simply because of the aerodynamic efficiency against potential headwinds.
For exactly that reason "everything you can do on a XC bike can be done on a gravel" I bought a gravel bike and it complements my trail bike so nicely. The XC bike is too close to my trail bike.
And I love my gravel bike for commuting and urban biking. It also doubles as my XC bike, when my trail bike undergoes maintenance
I think area has a big impact as well, mine has loads of cracks in the concrete with the patches creating bumps and the bike friendlyness varies so I have to swap between bike path, road and shared path constantly.
I started on an older ht mtb, 71 degree hta. When I went to rigid flatbar with skinny tyres, as you did, I noticed that suddenly all these bumps and cracks in the concrete in my area started popping out at me. It felt faster on good smooth road and concrete but more often I had to avoid things in the road or stop for obstructions.
Pulled out the old hardtail, got the lightest 2.1inch smooth tyres I could find and got rid of the triple crank and suddenly it feels much faster and confident. I don't have to worry about anything short of a sinkhole and can move between terrain seamlessly to avoid obstruction.
Having written all that I realise you sort of captured this by saying its about 'how' you ride, and area is an assumed factor I guess
Riding on hoods is much more comfortable than grips.
People are caught in the marketing of mtb niches and tend to have too much bike. Go to somewhere flat like swinley forest and look at the 160mm+ enduro bikes being winched around a centre more tame than any xco course.
I’ve just got a gravel bike; where I live I was riding my 140mm trail bike with the forks locked out but it was effort on road, on flat, uphill. Gravel is slightly hampered off road downhill but wins on all other bits of a door to door ride.
Would be interested to see you compare suspension fork, stem and seat post on a gravel bike vs non suspension gravel bike!
That would be my Salsa Fargo
@@arcoulant87 I have a Salsa Vaya with Red shift suspension stem. Great addition on bad roads. I ride gravel most days. A lot
@@Mosely2007 Yes I to have a redshift stem when I use the straight fork and they are very good
Kathrine was so precious. Thanks for the comparison. Most of the terrain you two were on would qualify as gravel. Need mud and roots to show where a gravel bike wouldn't be good at. Conversely, tarmac roads would be an area a mountain bike would bog down.
Maybe swap the bars for the next video?
Drop bar hardtail mtb vs flat bar gravel bike and see how it goes?
Maybe swap the tires too. Drop bar mtb use smaller tire like 29x2.00 and the flat bar use 27.5x2.20. Add some dropper post for the cherry on top 😁
The problem with this discussion/debate is we're not only talking apples and oranges, we've gotten tangerines thrown into the mix. For starters, are we racing or touring? And is it really touring -- slower with smoother trails/roads -- or is it bikepacking -- even slower but with lots of chunky stuff? The reality is there is no one bike that covers all riding conditions. Every situation will involve an element of compromise. You choose your bike hoping you've optimized it to handle most situations/conditions you will encounter. Happy trails to you...
9:04 something in between both would be a cross bike (not to be confused with cyclocross bikes!). 28" wheels, flat handlebars, a suspension fork that's lighter than that of an XC MTB but still provides offroad capability. I love mine, sold my hardtail as I'd always use either the cross bike or a full suspension MTB, and the hardtail was just collecting dust from standing around. Sadly, the species appears to be slowly dying out in favour of gravelbikes.
10€ Inner bar ends on your xc hardtail and semimslicks and you are done. TT bars for speed, inner bar ends for comfort.
I like my Giant Revolt gravel bike a lot, but I feel very under-gunned on anything remotely technical off-road. It would help a ton if it had a dropper post, but this particular bike has a D-shaped rather than round seat tube so it's not possible to get an after-market dropper post for it, as far as I know. For folks that want to get a little spicy off road on their gravel bike I would recommend considering a dropper post as a big upgrade for off-road capability.
I have both but I cant just get over modern MTB geometry. I understand its better for technical single trail, but I dont do that. Pedalling is really like dancing as you mentioned in the video, its a chore.
A hard tail is to put on a bike rack and drive to the woods for a few hours blast.
A gravel bike is a few hours to, around and back from the woods.
Super video guys and great music choices. Hardtails and gravel bikes are difficult to compare. In my tracks in the sud of the france you are very limited with a gravel bike and must stay on large and clean dfci. The singles tracks are too technic and it’s impossible to follow a mountain bike in those tracks. It’s incredibly fun with an Hardtail, and the hardtails of nowadays are so efficient in technical tracks. I choosed the hardtail (exceed slx) and i am very very happy with my choice. MTB are for real off-road rides and gravel for mixing road and clean off-road rides.
I’ve ridden my gravel bike in the blue trails at coed y brenin and that was awesome fun!
Actually somewhere Jimmy says the ideal would be "In between". Actually I use Giant XR1 (2011, positioned as a hybrid bike) as commuter bike / don't worry about the surface in the weekend bike. For perfect weather I have my carbon road bike, for anything else the Giant is the go-to bike. With 42mm Pathfinder Pro tires it rolls very well on tarmac (center part = slick), has grip on gravelly bits. It is not a big mountain bike, but still has 60 mm of travel in the front fork.
Oh, and Nowt Daft 🙂!
I tend to use the drops when descending, I have much better control and can shift my weight easier.
Gravel bikes are more fun, but require skill. Also take more focus and are more tiring going down, and on a rough multiday adventure I had elbow discomfort.
The problem with the current mountain bikes is that little front ring ,when I raced xc I had a triple up front with narrower semi slicks,so if conditions required you could really crack on.
Also Gravel bikes seems more appropriate for bike commuting in my opinion. So it's the Gravel bike for me since I don't go to trails that often and also if you're only planning to buy a single bike maybe the Gravel bike will suit ya
Would be cool to see you guys do something with drop bar MTBs now that you have discussed the Gravel/MTB differences in this video. Something like a Surly Ghost Grappler, Salsa Fargo or Cutthroat.
Yes! They even mentioned "something inbetween could really be ideal" - that exists, they are drop-bar MTBs. Also Poseidon Redwood: rigid frame but closer to MTB geometry and clearance for pretty big tires.
Or flat bar road bikes, perhaps with aerobars
Or ATBs with rigid forks and flat Bar but up to 2.6 Tires
I am turning my hardtail to more gravely . 2.1 aspens and removing the suspension fork and putting on a carbon fork .