"Amadeus" Movie Cuts: Too many notes | Essential Q&A | SlowGuitarPlayer
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2021
- #SlowGuitarPlayer #SGP #Amadeus #Mozart #GuitarSchool
Please read our article to understand the context: learn.slowguitarplayer.com/es...
Fragments of the "Amadeus" movie: www.imdb.com/title/tt0086879/
While those fragments are taken from movies and seem to have little in common with reality, the attitude shown is true and perfectly highlights those concepts we are talking about.
"Just cut a few notes and it will be perfect."
"Which few did you have in mind your majesty?"
Magnificently succint as well as relevant metaphor of ignorant yet opinionated people who criticize works that they don't even understand in any of the arts, who act like critics but lack the knowledge to offer a worthy critique
LOVE the look on Salieri's face when the Emperor asks for confirmation on his "too many notes" hypothesis. It practically SCREAMS "Why are you dragging me into this nonsense? Oh, god, I'll have to agree with you, too..."
Yes 😂
And when Mozart says: "This is ABSURD!" Salieri's face is like "EXACTLY"
The funny thing is that Bach was underappreciated in the era of Mozart (when Mozart famously praised Bach once, he actually meant Bach's son, not JBS himself), because his music was considered dated, and it was considered dated, because it was very baroque, and the problem with baroque style was, in a way, USING TOO MANY NOTES.
True. Hard to believe JS Bach wasn't revived until the 1800's. While he was alive, it was the Rococo era when music became much simpler with an emphasis on melody instead of counterpoint. Thus opening the door to the Classical era of Hayden and Mozart. So wasn't even 'appreciated' at all. Imagine if Duke Ellington had been writing big band in the 80's. No one would have cared. Like Bach, he would probably of held down some basic music gig playing or teaching somewhere. Interestingly, there is some historical evidence that Beethoven mastered some of Bach's preludes and exercises as a young man.
It's hard to believe Mozart couldn't appreciate Bach's genius. It makes me call into question the veracity of this anecdote. None of his sons came close to JS.
@[GD] Annoe well, it's not like Mozart didn't respect him, but Bach senior was regarded as the oldschool approach.
I don’t think this is correct. Mozart took lessons from Bach’s son and was shown some of his Father’s music when he visited Leipzig school where JS taught and was impressed by what he saw on paper. JS was not into Opera so that is why he was forgotten.
@@JoeBlue415How did you get "Mozart couldn't appreciate JSB' genius" from the anecdote above?
I find it interesting that Salieri could not bring himself to fully agree with the emperor in front of Mozart. He has no problem discrediting Mozard behing his back but in front of him he knows it makes him look like a ridiculous buffoon in the eyes of Mozart agreeing to this "too many notes" thing and he tries to backpedal a bit. Mozart really was his idol
Salieri is portrayed in this film as being musically adept as well as politically savvy. It is very hard to be an expect under the power of a person who is really not even all that proficient. Such people will occasionally say things, publicly, that are horribly wrong. The business of helping them save face while simultaneously showing yourself to be neither an idiot nor a sycophant -- it is a skill for the ages.
"OH no he didn'"! Telling Mozart to cut down a few notes is like telling you, just don't breathe that much..and you'll be fine. 🤦♀️
"Which few did you have in mind Majesty?"
1700s burn
Most savage answer would have been "All of them."
@@u.v.s.5583 How? The principality would have lost an illustrious and enjoyable entertainer. It's not about cutting the grass down to the dry barren earth, but about cutting it just to the same height as yourself so as to make your woman not feel bad about being with you.
@@lookupverazhou8599 True, half would be enough.
This has been my favorite movie since I saw it September, 1984.....just perfect in so many ways!
Mine too. I watch it probably once a year since. It really put the hook in me for classical music, too.
Agreed. Maybe in 2024 we’ll get a 4K version for the 40th anniversary. It’s a great movie. It’s really hard for me to say exactly who was the lead actor…F Murray Abraham, or Tom Hulce, but they probably should have just nominated one of them as supporting actor, then they both would have won. They both deserved an Academy Award for their performances in that movie.
@@Whoopdido777 .. Yep.. As great as Abraham's performance was it seems to me that Hulce's was the tougher gig.. a fine line being ridiculous and yet still fully inhabiting the character in a believable way.
@@blujay9191 I would actually probably tend to agree. I mean I’m not a classical music expert, but I don’t think Mozart was thought of as a brash, immature kid who liked to make fart jokes, but Hulce pulled that part perfectly while still showing us the brilliance of what maybe we think Mozart actually was really like. On the flip side Abraham was just REALLY good as Mozart’s foil, but also his admirer too. To my knowledge, in reality they weren’t actually enemies at all. That was kind of made for the play and the movie. In real life it was more like at the end where Salieri was friendly with Mozart and even helped him out when he had some financial problems. But in any event, as good as Murray was he kind of only had to play one role, while Hulce had to play two.
Almost perfect, but it uses too many colors
Franz Liszt. "Too many notes?" Hold my beer...
Wonderful film! Wonderful cast too.
The ending with Lacrimosa playing in the background is one of the darkest things ever
@@mrnostalgia864 True!
imagine saying that to Mozart! and Salieri knew it was miraculous! he had the closest mind to Mozart all things considered, compared to all the rest of them!
That dude standing next to the King is like oh shit.
That's pretty cool so many commenters have learned about all this kind of music. I do agree modern musicians do it too many notes but maybe I'm just jealous not sure wish I could write just 5 minutes of anything the great composers wrote
I never forgot the scene because I have listened to people my whole life give criticism, and when I ask them to be specific they usually say something that reveals they have no idea what I've just done, or delivered.
Never be surprised when someone doesn't recognize what you've created for what it is. Some people just don't have enough receptors to perceive the form. This goes for objects in the physical, but also thought form ideas.
Answering to the powerful is a way of degrading myself as an artist. Even as a person generally...
I do hate classical music as a matter of personal taste but the dynamic is very well captured in this scene.
@@jesustovar2549 no thank you. Symphonic music is boring to me. Why would someone pursue something that they thinks sucks?? For all you've said, a persons attention needs a desire to focus it.
Musically I am more interested in improvisation, ornamentation and the rules of Central Asian composition.
I also think Piano is one of the clunkiest sounding instruments ever created.
Mr. Tovar, I respect and envy you your knowledge and understanding of Classical Music. I learned from you just now how much I love composers of the Baroque period ( Vivaldi is Mah Man!! Stay close Handel!!) I’m learning to love Bach thanks to a classical music station out of Toronto, learned to love Mozart thanks to this movie, worship Rhapsody in Blue and also Speigle im Speigel by Arvo Part. It’s so rich, complex; apropos of any emotion, state of mind, event, or time of day. I wish I knew more and understood it better, but at least we live in an era when it is so available to the Hoi Polloi. Cheers and thanks!
@@jesustovar2549 Between both of us, labelling my opinion as a form of 'ignorance' is typical among western indoctrination. And to say that I just need more education to appreciate it is nearly a perfect definition of indoctrination.
My mother played in the symphony in Colorado Springs. And I heard a lot of classical music growing up. I am also familiar with this bogus attitude that musical beauty is some kind fact. As if somethings that sucks needs proof. Proofs are for objective knowledge. At 18 you might not understand this. But you have successfully internalized the music elitism of Western Classical music culture. Despite the fact that All Music is simply a form of Art with no objective existence, people still love to think that their knowledge makes them exceptional.
12 tone equal temperament system has limits that become quickly obvious when a person listens to Ottoman Turkish music. Or Indian classical music, Shashmakam of Uzbekistan etc...
Western Classical music is part of the youngest musical traditions in history.
The tuning of a piano is based on mathematics, and not harmony.
The training of the ear can go in any direction.
It is a matter of taste. Despite what highbrow intellectuals might like you to think, for their own narrative of being exceptional persons and awakened to musical 'proof', as you put it.
@@barefootarts737 The idea that all modern music doesn't have it's roots in classical and pre-classical music, or that knowing that it does and yet ignoring it's forebearers, and at the same time claiming you have an appreciation for it, is patently absurd; to ignore the birthplace of a thing and yet to claim you understand and appreciate the thing - quite preposterous indeed!
@@lookupverazhou8599 I'm not arguing about the roots of anything here. I am also not that educated on the subject of Western Classical music.
This part of the film is a great representation of defiance of what the authorities wanted good music to be. As if it could ever be decided.
Between us, there are much bigger problems in the modern music world...
I always help people in providing this conclusion when they want to express themselves why they don't like jazz but don't find the right words for it. However I love music by Mozart as same as jazz music just because of all these many notes but I understand meanwhile the root of their problem with it.
I think when people say they don't like jazz, what they really mean is that they don't like certain types of jazz. It's such a diverse genre It's very hard to image someone could't find anything they like there...
@@viktordoe1636 I don't like the type of jazz that has too many notes all in the wrong order.
Some jazz is for other musicians not for a general audience. It is complex and technical and shows the mastery of the instruments and the form. It fulfils its purpose. Other jazz does all that and still creates an emotional response in a wider group of people.
Hahaha
Composers used to compose to show off their patrons like kings. Mozart wrote music, that had nobody in mind. He wrote just to write.
It's like he's telling Mozart "you're too great!"
He's not wrong.
Can anyone comment on the ppl actually putting on the operas in the movie? Is that just like edited or are they actually opera performances, they’ve always blown me away!
Just got hearing aids for the first time and I happen to be a big fan of Mozart. I can't hear high pitch sounds which makes music sound very different than it really is. Now with my hearing aids I can hear all the notes from Mozart's music. His music is sublime and sound much better now that I can hear it all and I don't think he should cut a few notes to make it better. Watching this video now is even more funny as my reaction was the total opposite than the emperor's reaction.
Equivalent to this was a brilliant scene in South Park when the kids teacher tells the class “remember children, there is no such thing as stupid questions….just stupid people”.😂😂😂
I think I've seen this whole movie via 2 minute youtube clips. I should just watch it.
Years ago, the whole movie was on UA-cam. Those were the good days of UA-cam
The movie is like 3 and a half hours long. That’s a lot of 2 minute clips!
@@larrycrowne8330 I have since watched it. Pretty good.
1:25 damn salieri
It's akin to telling DaVinci too many colors. Uuuh yeah keep telling yourself that Skippy
The Emperor wasn't entirely wrong. Some of Mozart's operas could have been miniseries..
akin to telling an architect "too big", akin to telling a sculptor "too many muscles"
Mozart - too many notes? They are so not ready for Chopin.
How can less be more ….. more is more
Salieri's actor is the same who does Kyonshu's voice in the series *Moon Knight*
Too many notes!!
Durante toda la historia, no hay ni habra fuerza mas destructiva q un pendejo con poder,!!
I remember when I first saw this movie I was infuriated by this scene LOL really, wtf. :P
I can agree about to many notes, in fact all old-fashion music has too many notes... like why would anyone think that 30min song is good idea. ear can take 5min at best
I enjoy perfectly fine 20 or 30min pieces/songs.
Your ear can take 5min at best. I suppose you dislike things like "Salt of the Earth" (6min!), "Child in Time" and "Stairway to Heaven" (10min each!), "Money for Nothing" (8 bloody minutes!), or virtually any progressive rock songs?
Emperor was right though... it's kind of a zen thing with art. A master can say more with a haiku than with a novel
I guess Eddie Van Halen used too many notes in his songs too.
Way too many. Why I counted 26 "over" notes in one piece alone. I'm right in saying this, aren't I?
EVH didnt have 1/4 of the speed some guitar players had in the 80s. Beginning with R.R. and Yngwie, those guys made EVH seem like a tortoise with arthritis. No one could ever say EVH played too many notes. Then it became ridiculous with players like Michael Angelo and Rusty Cooley, great skill, but even I couldn't listen to them for more than a couple songs.
@@equalleftrights3130 Even Yngwie said EVH was an inspiration for him to play guitar. I'm impressed with these guitarists 'shredding' but it's not what I like about any rock band. I like the totality of the sound and the song has to be good also. It's tiresome to just listen to a guitarist shred all the time. After a while it bores me.
@@ktcarl What does that have to do with what I said?? I never said EVH wasn't great, I just said he wasn't fast or a shredder. Stick to the topic.
@@equalleftrights3130 Wut???? EVH wasn't fast or a shredder?????
David Dobrik is really good in this movie
I mean... am I the only one willing to defend the emperor here. I don't know if the criticism applies to Mozart but there doesn't seem to me to be anything inherently ridiculous about the criticism of saying that there are too many notes in a long form piece of music.
Imagine the scene except instead of Mozart it's Michael Bay and the emperor said 'too many explosions'. Michael: ''but your majesty there are just as many explosion as I require, no more no less'' Emperor: ''well my dear fellow, there are only a certain number of explosions that one can watch in an evening''
I like Mozart Bach And Beethoven as well
Thanks so much for this information. It's invaluable
I envy you
how should I say 🤔
I suck to your many notes
The aria "Martern aller Arten" has too many notes... To listen this without be exhausted, demands a really incredible technique and musicality by the soprano. Christina Deutekon and Maria Callas was the only two sopranos I can heard that aria and put to play again, and again, ad again... Hahahahahahaha' "Die Entführung aus dem Serail", who is played at this scene, it's really a masterpiece who demands a lots os virtuosity by the singers.
If there's "Only so many notes the ear can HEAR in the course of an evening" how could he have HEARD too many? 🤔
he doesn't really mean anything, he's trying to make any sense at all.
But what he could've meant is that after a while your ear gets tired and you can't really pay attention as well as you could before, thus rendering the latter notes to be exaggerated extravaganza.
He obviously means that there are only so many notes that one can COMFORTABLY hear in the evening.
Coltrane has the same problem but Bird got it just right!
I think Jimmy Page is one of the best guitarists of all time, but he played too many notes sometimes.
Sorry I was trying to reply to somebody else and messed up. I’m typing on an iPad and it won’t let me delete or edit my post for some reason.
I interpret "to Many Notes" as the music is to busy, hard to take in all at once, it needs a measure of contemplation before hitting it hard again.
Things are hard for imbeciles to take in, and most kings/princes/dukes/majesties are imbeciles.
This is what those with no talent/skills always say about shredders like Yngwie. 🤣
Maestro, are you really sure that your composition would not have been better if you replaced that final arpeggio with a simple quarter note melody line?
@@u.v.s.5583 Arpeggios can very well be played in quarter notes.
And they are melody lines.
I wonder what Kapeilmeister would talk about Dream Theater 🤣
The very talented vocalist should perform heroic Italian heroes in great Italian operas, lovers, warriors, kings! As for the rest of the band, in the 18th century setting without electricity they sound like manure.
Still a problem today... with people
@Eye of Saturn that is 9gag
@@cutebuffalo5443 😆
@Eye of Saturn Right... well some also have an impossible time somehow not jumping @ an opportunity to throw another under the wheels of the bus without provocation.
Lol A nube makes a eugenics joke, and the Eye of Saturn replies with a critique.
There aren't too many people. There's simple too many people with greed.
What a great movie. I understand Netflix is remaking it with an all-black cast.
Finally, an historical film!
lmao
The human ear can only hear 30 notes per second.
Mostly less than that. Maybe even as few as 10-12.
Yes, but the mind may perceive beyond the senses.
wouldnt have been so stupid if he had said it was too ornamental or cluttered. too many notes, lol.
Ammeddeus l'essenziale celavete.non e francese
Why is the guy on the right holding like a redacted object
The white romania surely yawn because rayon intraorally seal upon a puny glockenspiel. important, different nic
so true, my friend
The Emperor is right. Mozart songs dragged on and on for way too long.
And which notes did you have in mind that Mozart should've taken out to make his works not "drag on and on" ?
Lol Reki here shredding apart Mozart as if he has the credentials
@@AK-tx1vg Only the superfluous ones. About half, I'd say.
The emperors argument sounds like the arguments used by christians against atheists.
Atheists simply play too many notes.
Atheists have an argument that isn't based on negation?? Wow, I never knew.
Do you insert yourselves into everything? Go back to reddit.
at least the one presented in the movie could possibly be valid.