Every Machinists NIGHTMARE… Have YOU BROKEN a TAP in a Part???
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- Опубліковано 18 кві 2022
- How to use the ONA DR-2 EDM Hole Popper to fix a broken tap. CNC Machining techniques revealed.
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist - Наука та технологія
Sweet, got a broken tap in a part, now all I need is a edm hole popper.
Yep, or a shop with one that will do it for you.
Trevor Goforth only costs as much as the part itself made to do it
@@captainheat2314 Have you ever looked into it, or are you assuming? Some parts can have 10 or more hours into them and be made out of costly alloys. I can guarantee it will be worth your while to have a local EDM shop burn it out at that point. It's not a costly process relative to scrapping an expensive and time consuming part.
I have another way, use a center punch and fracture it into pieces and fish those out. It may sound dumb but it works if you don't have any edm stuff
that why i weld with highpower a brocken tap on a rod shatters into pieces ^^
also a good way is to use the broken tap, ground with a pyramid tip to break the stuck part .
that's what i use at work and it works really good.
if everything fails just drill with a crown drill and weld the hole shut or weld a plug in
I've only got that to work a few times. Most of the time it just destroys the tip of my punch
@@greg2337 yeah, that's why I'm regrinding the broken tap😂
same hardness and my good punch doesn't get destroyed
Freeze the tap and then punch it out
So you're telling me that cursing all the saints on the calendar, spending hours trying to loose the tap and ending up slam dunking the part in the scraps barrel isn't the correct way? *surprised
pikachu face*
😂😂😂
Tell the truth though. It feels kinda good slam dunking a part in the scrap bin for some odd reason.
When I was a 17 year old Apprentice Fitter . I was very good at removing broken taps and sheared bolts. My foreman got me to do it for the shop. 1975 made myself prongs etc for the fiddly bits. Belfast UK
was this one of those you either get good at tapping holes or you get good at removing broken taps kinda situations?
@@Sarge92 both. Hardest to do was 1/8 BSF on a small part. Most tapping I done was on the mill or drill using a SPV tapper. 😎👍🇬🇧
Smallest I got out is a m2 using lead from a clicky pencil, on a sparker. Took its time but it was all removed and no damage to the threads.
Sparker? Like hooked up to car battery?
Just plunge a 1/32" endmill?
@@urgamecshk I never seen a 0.8mm endmill b4 especially a carbide one. It what was laying around the workshop at the time to get the job out.
or, you can just tap properly? My journeyman used to say, "you have all this time to mess on taking out a broken thing, but if only you did it properly, you'd have all that time for the next job" but also shit happens!
glad I worked with parts with large tolerances, tapped a m2.5 tap out by tapping it with a spare scriber and mallet
Nice to see not a lot has changed since being an apprentice in the early 1960s. We manufactured precision aluminium components for the aerospace industry. There were two 10ba. Tapped holes to finish the part. Each was carefully tapped by hand using a tapping block for alignment. You needed a very delicate touch to tap these holes. Not every apprentice had the knack and we ended up with lots of components with broken taps. One day a sales person arrived to show os a very simple machine called a “Tap-O-Matic”. It was a small spark eroder. Every component with broken taps was saved. Your machine is more advanced but does the same job.
😊
😊
You guys are at a whole new level in manufacturing.
Gotta be high-level to help others RISE TO GREATNESS, BRO! Thanks for watching!
The same systemis in use at our mashineshop. However, the electrode is clamped in the spindle of the Z axis of the machine. So the part does not have to be dismantled. It happens quite often that taps or drills break off and get stuck in the part. We uses electrodes with diameters up to 20 mm. Our boss always say: once unclamped is thrown away.
My method involves a lot of swearing. I should get one of those hundred thousand dollar machines!
Actually they are pretty inexpensive!
This machine is nowhere close to 100k
@@barrysetzer how much?
Yea I don’t have one of those. I chip them out with a broken end mill that I ground into a punch. Sometimes you can get them turning
I love how every know it all says "throw it in the EDM" when you got a busted tap. I never knew that. Too bad most shops don't have one.
Absolute truth. The VAST majority of people don't have one, so the second I see that type of comment, you know it's from a keyboard mechanic that doesn't do this crap in real life.
Yeah, the cheapo Chinese ones are getting pretty affordable, but unless you're doing a significant amount of hand tapping they just don't make sense for the cost.
plenty of other great ways to do it with stuff you already have lying around.
Anyone with a wire edm should have a holepop machine.. and a cheap sinker can do the same job, just with more cleanup of the oil.
@@shirothehero0609 err you dont buy this machine to remove broken taps
this machines purpose is making the starter holes for a edm machine they have a edm machine if you too have a edm machine this machine is also probably not far away
Thank you! I never thought about that. Now I'll sell my house and buy EDM.
LOL you would be surprised how affordable these machines are.
@@barrysetzer then why don't you tell us the cost of this machine. It would clear up a lot of confusion.
@@KevinJones-pj8kx Sure! as with anything, there is a range of quality and style and options. But you can pick up almost any hole popper for between $1K and $20K. About the cost of a band saw.
@@barrysetzer 1-20k for an EDM????
@@danl.4743 Sure! google it yourself! I just googled "hole popper" and they range from $1K for a portable unit to $20K for one similar to ours in this video. Don't get the wrong idea, this is NOT a sinker EDM. It's primary function is to make starter holes for a wire EDM.
I have always tig welded taps out... hastelloy w or stainless .040 rod will typically work well. Edm wold be handy too I'm sure.
I do this all the time in my garage! Works great
Man, I've had to remove literally thousands of busted taps over the years, I've gotten pretty damn good at it. I always start with trying to spin it out or chip it out if possible, if not then the EDM plung burner gets whipped out. EDM has saved my bacon on so many occasions but I didn't have anything this fancy though, just a mag base with a vertical post and arm that holds the burner head with a wheel on a rack and pinion to raise and lower it manually, good old ElectroArc. I really like that system because you can burn out anything from a 6-32 machine thread in tiny aerospace parts (maybe even smaller, I never had to burn anything smaller than that) all the way up to broken taps the diameter of your fist in gigantic building-size weldments or machined structures, ElectroArc burners are _very_ practical tap removal systems. This one looks a lot more accurate though for sure, and I imagine it would be very fast if set up for a specific run of products being programmable.
Very good video!
Titan now has all machines possible to have. The only missing is a extremely high quality Swiss machining and high accuracy waterjet
I like the editing on this video
I always just knab a smaller carbide end mill and plunge cut it out. Edm would be nice though.
As a tool shop:
If you don't have this machine at least you should know someone who has one
Exactly!!!
Exactly my friend, thanks for watching!
Hai friends how to remove the broken screw in a high speed cutters. Please help me to find the solution.
Getting broken taps/drills out of holes are the least favorite part of my job lol
Tapping was the last step in producing a $35 part, I broke a bunch of taps so I just switched to thread milling.
Either tap asap or learn to tap properly... I haven't broken a tap in like 7 months and I do 45hrs/week
Doing 45 hours a week is an absolutely irrelevant statistic to judge how many taps you break while tapping. How many holes do you tap a week? What material do you machine?
@@Baseballkid88 last week I did 240 M4's,720 M2's,480 M3's and 180 7/16-20 in Gr 5 Ti. This is the third time I've done this order and I've keep the taps with the job. I run all the Ti and stainless (304-316) so the new guys can only ruin aluminum lol
The reason people break taps is because they don't know what a form % is, and don't pin their drilled holes to ensure proper size and lack of taper. After that, it comes down to maintaining a SFM appropriate for the material.
@@urgamecshk Its 1/4-20 into 304 on a Cylinder. Make flat with 4FL center cut EM, spot/center drill, #7Drill, tap, practice french.
If you have some good books on it I'd appreciate it.
Using a very rigid 6ton box way machine
@@Eluderatnight we don't make flats. Spot to 0.275" with a 120 spot drill (z-0.075 or so) and then drill. Use #1 for form or #6 for spiral cut (and confirm with pins!) Keep tapping SFM around 20 or so, but we just do S200 to make the F10. (simple to confirm at the controller). Peck if it's more then 0.35 deep.
Example
T1spot s4000 f8. Z-0.075
T2 drill S700 F2.5
M00 (fluid)
T3 S200 F10. i 0.35
Rapid tap is great. Blow off the chips when it's retracting.
Man you know how many taps I broke in my day it was always my worst nightmare I wish I had one of these😂 the worst was when small taps broke. The Best way to not break taps, is by not using them use threadmills . They come right out when broken👍 parts I run at work if a tap breaks it’s scrap, it’s copper and it ruins the threads . Customer doesn’t allow us to save it due to possible contamination, 10-24 form taps
@Trevor Gorforth did you go down center of hole or offset for each pass?
I offset each burn .015” in The X positive and then negative directions!
Is this a 3d printed part or cast lost pla?
I used to have a small edm head to fit in a drill press to remove taps. 25 years ago.
I've seen those! Super cool!
It might be a good idea to use a thread gauge. Go and no go? After the tap has been removed.
I thought it went without sayiing that if a tap breaks, the hole isnt finished anyway. After u burn the tap out u still have to go back in with a fresh tap and chase the rest, after that is when you would go nogo it
Aah yes. My favorite way to remove a tap. Let someone else deal with it.
Guess I gotta learn to use one of those things
What material is this it looks almost like 3d printed with fdm
It was 3D printed 17-4 stainless off of our Markforged MetalX
Wish we had a machine like that lol, I do the old school way, Hammer and the left over carbide end mill neck and hammer away. Some days Im lucky and others ...well clock's ticking. If I cant do it in a certain amount of time, forget it, move on. Just gotta really check your taps and or the hole itself before pressing the green button. ...but it does suck.
been there done that but since i use threadmills i have never ever broken a tap again :P
My style
Heat it then slowly tappy tap left and right with flathead screwdriver. It works
Depends on the size of the tap
Center punch works well to
I wanna see how you notify 5/16 tap and a 1 in h tap without burning it out
When I read the title I thought, wow this video will be useful. Once I discovered the solution was to use a piece of equipment most shops don't I was disappointed. Do better
Love the video's, I do wish you would say though, how much the machines cost!
It depends on options and what you intend to use it for. But they range from $1k to $20k or so.
Oh gosh what a brilliant idea in a conditioned world.
Metal rod and silver solder. Put blob of silver solder on end of rod. Cool rod. Use vice grips hold rod with blob on end touching broken tap. Heat rod. Heat travels down rod to blob and sticks to tap. Cool down. Back out tap.
also i use a tap guide when tapping by hand lo avoid flexing it and if your tap is finished then dispose it and take a new one and you will avoid messing with that
I've managed to pop one out using our waterjet, works decently as long as the broken part isn't at too much of an angle.
What size was the tap? 10-24 or 10-32 or was it metric
It was a 4-40
@@barrysetzer ooo a small little guy gotta love breaking the small ones
Or weld a bolt with a hex head and use an impact wrench with a deep socket.
That's a huge holepop machine!
If possible, put the piece in a vice on a mill and chuck up a carbide mill/drill small enough to chew out the webbing of the tap.
Sucks to be you! 😂😂 Been there, done that! Love hole poppers!
Me too Barry.
Hole poppers can be life savers
I have a magic screwdriver..
#8 tap is the smallest I've removed.
I've also extracted broken .187 drills an inch deep in 316L plate using the magic screwdriver...
The trick is; cut the screwdriver off, grind it tapered, at the same time give it a cam shape.
Hss, Co, and carbide can be easily chipped with lateral pressure.
Just blow air in the hole, while twisting that strong cam lever magic screwdriver.
It works 50% of the time every time!
Also my screwdriver levetates with an adequate amount of upward airflow from an air nozzle. Which is entertaining and seems magical. Hence the name... Magical screwdriver!😎
Excellent...... If you have one of those machines 🙄
You can also send your part to a local EDM facility if it’s worth it.
Alex, this is true, but these machines are VERY inexpensive compared to an edm, every wire edm place has them.
@@TITANSofCNC yeah we used to do that till I became a badass at removing them in the machine. Use an endmill ti remove all the jagged edges and then switch to a carbide drill. The drill eats through the tap 10x faster than the endmill. Plus you can get closer to the minor Dia without eating through it than you can with an endmill.
Best way to get it out is: don't break the tap
My last broken tap is about 30 years ago and I'm machining thousands of threads per year.
So yes, don't break it and you don't need such "ONA DR-2 EDM Hole Popper"
There are a lot techniques to make sure you don't break a tap, but that's something else and you should also make a video about that.
I lost count of the screws and taps I removed from holes like that. But not every shop can afford this sort of machine. My favorite was a simple reverse drill with a hardened guide above. Worked like a charm. I kinda hate these sort of videos. They feel like "Hay, look at what we have to remove that broken tap really easy."
Not sure why the video gives that impression. Not everyone has seen this method so we wanted to shine a light on it, it’s as simple as that.
A cheaper way to remove taps is to use a plasma cutter, set in on the hole and the tap will vaporize.
Yea, let me just remember where I put that wire edm hole popper? Must be back into the corner with that dovetail jig and band file that hardly use.... Nice if you have it...
It’s nice even if you don’t have it personally. I’m sure someone in your area has one and would burn broken taps out for fairly cheap, relatively speaking.
All good . Now who has a spare edm machine kicking around 🤔 👀
OK so how many people have access to such an expensive and specialized machine?
Isn't this usually under wate?
Hi Titans! What about 1000 dolars giveaway? I am curious how tall the stack of money is
We have a winner and recorded it, working on the editing now… within the next week.
Hey Knuckle, did you receive the endmill that you won in our last giveaway?
@@barrysetzer yes i have already had a cutter for about a week. I passed the information on to Sarah as soon as I got it. today I am making a cutter holder at work. when it is ready, I will mark you in the Instagram report
@@barrysetzer This was the email I shared with you buddy. LoL Remember?
@@Sara-TOC Hahaha oh yeah! My memory is not what it used to be, LOL
Beautiful e.d.m drilling b❤️❤️m
NGL this isn't quite what I expected. I don't know how many shops have this just lying around, I honestly expected more hand tool techniques first to show options that are a bit more commonly available before turning to the fancier, rarer set ups.
Not that there's anything technically wrong, this is just a bit out of reach for most guysm
At the end of the day we made this video to showcase this method for people that haven’t seen it before so they know what’s possible. Now in an emergency someone might think to outsource to a local EDM shop as a last resort before scrapping a part.
“If this was mission impossible you could call me tom cruise” is how i felt the other day when i tapped 4-40 holes .900” deep without breaking a single one
You’re a funny one Trevor. LOL.
Haha thanks Ron, glad you got a laugh out of it!
Supervisor used to just make us use an EM to get it out.
Isn't removing broken taps one of the most common EDM applications?
I know it's for show but if your hand tapping without going to location with a center in the Bridgeport your asking for that.
I thought I was going to see an easy way to remove it by hand the old fashioned way, But instead… Look at our cool machine…Haha
What if wasnt't a thru hole?
It wasn’t a thru hole, this machine can burn to depth!
Your solution is to have a 100k machine. I've removed tap with a hand plasma cutter but I would imagine the whole has to be larger than 1/8" or 3/16ths
A hole popper is nowhere near 100K. It is literally a piece of support equipment.
@@barrysetzer good to know. Good info about 20 grand. Still out of reach for 98 percent of people removing taps.
@@legionjames1822 You can also outsource to a shop with EDM if it saves an expensive part with a lot of man hours into it.
@@trevorgoforth8963 yea for sure. I think theirs a better solution out there if I'm being honest.
@@legionjames1822 out of curiosity, which solutions do you feel are better?
you can also try to mill it out with a propper carbide tool. Be carefull, or the chip could break the mill.
Tapping M4 into hex SS304 into blind hole.... In the moment I see that drawing for THAT part my M4s starts to break in my toolbox instantly
Just drill 0.148 and form it
If its a pipe tap Ill hit it with the tig welder. Most othertimes just use an old ball endmill down the center. Smaller taps EDM as last resort
Did you not run another tap down by hand to confirm correct depth and ensure no broken pieces remain??
We used a screw to check it.
I had an issue with that untill I saw you were assembling right away so it dosent matter that much what's going on as long as the screw goes. At my job I would be scrutinizing the thread and almost surely reworking it after removing a broken tap. But we don't assemble
What if it's carbide
Edm/hole poppers will also cut carbide no problem
Why didn't I think of that, I'll just pop over to my wire edm machine
It’s not a wire EDM machine and you don’t have to have one you can outsource it to a local EDM shop.
How does that work on MUCH larger metal parts? Say a 4000 lbs frame?
this way I use every broken tap. edm drill
You can also vibrate the part from a range from 30-30,000 hertz a second.
The vibrate range will oscillate up and down the scale 4 times a second.
The tap/bolt/nut/pin will vibrate loose.
Useful I have a dremel engraver maybe it will have a use now
@@ThatOneOddGuy you need high shock impact , like a rattlegun combination dremel. It may work buddy!!!... nothing bigger than 1/4 inch 6mm ... dont use liquid.
@@Bibibosh how about a hammer drill 🤣 I'll test it tomorrow
Cool, never knew that method, it sounds interesting!
@@ThatOneOddGuy hammer drill doesn't have the subsonic vibrations you need.
I think max rpm would only be like 500 if that. Dremels rpm are like 15,000's but dremels have little force power.
Its work trying tho. Fast vibration, and a little force to vibrate it out.
What is Barry doing behind you?
LOL, working on my next awesome project. Stay tuned, it's a project that I came up with years ago and is great for teaching fundamentals!
OOOOOOOO!
@@barrysetzer Thank you for responding Barry. BIG fan.
@@ronmoore5584 Haha thanks for watching, Ron!
Nice, now all I need is multiple thousands dollars worth machine to do it :D
Did that 45 yrs ago!
how to remove a broken tap. step 1: get an EDM system that costs 10s of thousands of $....
for the rest of us, grind it flat, center punch and drill it out with a carbide drill or diamond burr on a drill press. or if there's a tiny bit sticking out, you can sometimes grab it with needle nose pliers
These machines range from 1-20k and you can always outsource to a local EDM shop instead of buying a machine. There are many ways, this is one of the most effective for sure.
@@trevorgoforth8963 wish i had one. i wouldn't outsource a broken tape though lol, i've learned the hard way how to remove them
Happened to me many of times lol. Horrible feeling lol sucks to be you hahahha
@sityy No
Haha Tyson is a savage!
Great method. How much for the machine? lol
You can sub the task to a local EDM House or larger shops can purchase a machine this.
@@TITANSofCNC I'm trying to be one go the bigger shops. lol Thanks for the info and great videos.
Good technique for removing a tap. But the example is when you don't calculate human cost on saving something that is beyond a reasonable repair.
Ya cause we all got a EDM! Do a vid on the mill? Ya small endmill with a drill cycle ! That's how We do it ! Cheers
Hole poppers are super affordable pieces of support equipment, you should look into one.
@@barrysetzer Ya We have to Farm out to a shop that has one if we can't mill it out! Milling it out Sux and takes forever and kills a handful of Carbide!
@@rickyhammer6832 Exactly!
This like delivering pizza with a helicopter.
If no edm hole popper could always use a left hand endmill
no check with a thread gauge to see if that shit oversized? lol
uses a machine that costs as much as a car to get out a broken tap
doesnt use a thread gauge to check the thread, uses a screw instead
Now the super computers are using EDM on any individual, Electronic Decision Making, that's why they have been collecting 3 info on everybody, TiTan KEEP on BOOMING on
Broken taps are the reason machinist and tool makers drink .
you should take care when tapping first, I use ball end mill carbide to drill a broken tap and i wont buy a machine to deal with broken taps as dont break more than one tap every five years
I'm not gonna lie guys. As a machinist I can see right through this. These vids are nothing but marketing. Step one of how not to break a tap. Step 1: don't try to tap a hole like a moron. Step 2 and this comes down to the actual machinists in the shop: take the time to train the youth trying to get into this trade how to do things properly. This chanel is a joke
Look ma, no swearing
Are you even a machinist until you've broken a tap inside something you can't just throw away and remake?
I think buying better taps and cutting oil is cheaper than that machine and time spent
since you guys already running edm machine, why not try edm tapping 😂 then no tap break anymore
invert the tappy-tap! so U can learn new tricks! shazam!! paint U Mr. Electric!!!
use oil..
Soak it in soda ash 😂 much easy job, even better lightly tap with cold centre punch I have done it upto 1.5M