Shen - Before the Rework
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- What was Shen like BEFORE his rework?
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#BeforeTheRework #LoL #Shen - Ігри
The shen rework is everything k'sante wants to be. Riot saying "we want to add a skill expressive tank option". The difference is, shen commits to being a tank, where k'sante is just a fighter that has tank scaling. In my opinion, shen is one of the best champions from a gameplay design perspective.
You forgot the part where K'sante being a hyper mobile true damage bruiser disguised as a tank made him impossible to balance and got gutted so bad because of pro play he became unplayable in soloq within a month of release. Meanwhile shen barely ever gets touched and is almost always a solid pick because he has a strong identity and knows what he is unlike K'sante who was another 200 years champ trying to do everything all at once.
I wish riot would respect the boundries they have themselves put in place regarding roles and archetypes in the game. Tanks are supposed to trade damage for durability and cc, lets make K'sante who also deals more true damage than a fighter. Enchanters are supposed to be high priority targets who are mechanically easy but gated mostly by careful positioning, lets make yuumi who completely ignores positioning. Juggernauts are meant to be giga strong in melee but have limited mobility? Lets add stridebreaker into the game with a dash completely removing their one weakness. Adc's and skirmishers meant to be high damage but squishy? lets add shieldbow cause why the fuck not.
And yes most of these things get addressed via nerfs eventually but my point is that its so blatantly obvious these things dont work before they are even implemented they shouldnt have to literally break the game for several patches until they get nerfed to the point of being unplayable because there is no way for them to exist in a balanced state. Wish riot would just respect the limitations of roles in the game and design within them instead of trying to have every new champ do everything and end up with more balance nightmares.
@@popelipo6281 that's a good point
@@popelipo6281 I'm 99% sure that they make plenty of "mistakes" knowingly. It helps the whole abusive relationship they have with their playerbase.
@@popelipo6281 Buying items to cover weaknesses, like old stridebreaker, is fine. The issue comes from the fact that riot also gives some of these items 4 strong stats that are all gold efficient instead of making it a blink dagger situation where you're paying a premium, all lump sum, just to cover that big weakness. If a item that gives a dash is a part of someone's natural big path it should give them minimal if any stats and you should have to save up a boatload for it, not be able to pay it out in 350 gold increments of steadily increasing power.
Riot's gold and item design philosophy is terrible and even smite, the game directly inspired by LoL that once upon a time copied their items 1 for 1, does it better now. They're entirely hypocritical on balance between roles and the sheer existence of singular champions ensures that certain classes of item can never be even close to balanced. How can you buff ADC items when yasuo exists and will kill top/mid lane with his 4 passives? How can you ever balance tanks vs bruisers when bruiser items always give them multiple stats they unilaterally want while tanks always have to eat shit on meh effects or stats because resistances might as well not exist if you can't push past 400. And the few items that are good on tanks are also great on bruisers.
Its incredibly obvious that riot doesn't have a consensus on design and balance; there isn't any one guy who makes all the calls at the end of the day its a team of dudes who don't even talk to one another each balancing in their own personal vacuum with different philosophies. They need an Icefrog, one guy who's in charge of the whole shebang and everyone has to report their ideas and changes to before they even touch PBE. Instead they have a dozen different guys who are getting corporate commands from higher up giving them generic orders of "buff X champion for general play" and they have to figure it out from there without consulting anybody else.
@@Skagwatcher tanks can never exist in a balanced healthy spot in league. They will either be just weak juggernauts or we have a situation where a 600 armor malphite is unkillable and deletes squishies with one ability rotation.
Every single time tanks have been strong and we have been in a tank meta it has been some of the worst and most hated metas ever. The perfect example is back in like 2017 or something with the iconic clip from a pro game where Hauntzer on nautilus eats 31 consecutive towershots under the enemy nexus and lives.
The only dissapointing thing about the Shen rework was the lack of a substancial VO update and a lot of the old animations staying the exact same. The new model is quite nice, but he's tied with so many Ionian champs that the extremely limited voiceline repertoire is kinda lame.
they seriously need more VO updates like with Nidalee and Varus, 2 per year just doesn't feel enough when there's a total of 160+ champs and half of them having less than 3mins of dialogues. If they ever brought Keith back for an updated Shen VO with the current state of Ionia I would be so happy
@@dioxide39 Thing is, the Varus and Nidalee VO updates are pure passion projects that were never planned in the grand scheme of things, so sadly it's already a miracle we're getting those.
Meanwhile Shen's VA in genshin: "Asmonthus wine..."
@@Aganie. wait, Shen va voices Zhongli?
@@weaboo101 yea
I mained old shen, I freakin loved him. You could NEVER die. Ninja shen was my first ever skin in 2011. I really wish they kept that splash art for it
TBF in the early s6 Shen was still unkillable. Thing started to change in s7 with the lethality update.
@@IronKurone That was the last true tank meta tbf, it wasn't just Shen that was unkillable. That was the last time Tank meant tank, where tanks were truly unkillable and dealt half the damage they do now. Today I died in just under 5 seconds to a Zeri as Ornn, we were both full build I had 5.5k hp and 419 armor and just got blown the fuck up by a champion that has zero tank killing abilities nor kraken. Tank meta nowadays means that bruisers abuse the fck out of tank items. Not that tanks are in any way viable.
same here too but i might be the only guy on this planet who hates the shen rework. dropped him entirely. sonetime i play him on aram only using his ult or dash.
my best support game was still Shen, 4/4/56
@@Rokxis Old Shen Q was really nice to have
I love everything about new Shen... but I loved old Shen also - old Shen having 2 swords on his back had the coolest attack animation with Passive Ki Strike.
I love [Redacted] Shen
[redacted] Shen!
Something that I LOVE about shen is that he mirrors Zed's kit in a way that makes sense for both of them, they're eternal rivals after all, one being agressive and other being a protector. Passive is either a pseudo execute vs a durability buffer, Q is an AoE proyectile vs an Auto empower, and R is another Pseudo-excecute vs a global shield who is great at saving low health enemies. Love when game patterns shape the course of lore in a way it makes sense, in this case it made Shen from an awkward Ninja to a protector and bridge of both the real and spiritual world and the leader of a milennial order who is in charge of that.
Honestly I think the only thing I could argue is the whole part talking about Shen's rework making people quit the character for it's new skill level, which I mean, definitely happened, but I think that Shen's rework is a perfect example of these changes not making the barrier for entry to the champ harder, it's still a very simple champ which doesn't really take much to play well, the difference is they made it's skill ceiling way higher, new shen rewards better players so much more than old shen
New skill level? Old Shen was much harder to play than this. New Shen is pretty easy. Old Shen was hard or very hard.
You know when the opposite happens? It had happened and makes people quite angry because that's the issue with Mordekaiser. No, he did not lost its identity harder than Aatrox, he became a borderline brainless champ i was able to learn in a singular game of normals, and while bad, is not worse than becoming something completely different.
@@HeavenlyWarrior you do not know what you are talking about then.
@@philipposmalliaris4623 Yes I do because I played more the old Shen than the new Shen. The old Shen, you could heal yourself and allies and that was tricky to use effectively, it was extremely hard to push a lane and also farm, the E didn't do any damage whatsoever, , W didn't create an AOE zone like jax E to avoid attacks, it was a simple shield. The only thing easier about the old Shen was his ult because he shielded himself as well when activated. The new Shen is a noobs champ, simple to use and very straight foward. The new Shen is only harder to learn but much easier to master.
@@HeavenlyWarrior New shen has a way higher skill ceiling.
This type of video are honestly essential for league. Remember what champions were and how they’ve progressed are extremely interesting, and should be highlighted. Well done!
I miss old shen :( i loved his old Q way more) ... tbh i want everything back ( season 3-5) ... best league time and experience and not that bs we have today...
Yes agreed
you know what you say my friend, i'd not change a thing from this period. was pure amusement
Shen is a mammal 1:19
"1: Shen is a mammal." Oh, thank you, I counldn't tell
I been a Shen main around 2015 when i first picked up the game. Even though i dropped the game around 2021, I still stayed a Shen main to the very end. There are times that I did miss old Shen and vorpal blade, but I still loved playing the reworked Shen. I really do wish is that they update his voice lines and give him a legendary skin one day.
YAY another before the rework
i love these vids as well as ur usual content cryo keep it up
In terms of Shen now vs Shen then, the one thing I miss is the Vorpal Blade. I'm a sucker for slow, sustain based wet noodle fights in lane and, maybe I'm just not good enough on Shen now with juggling his shield but, I just find that lack of constant sustain to be a but meh. Otherwise, wonderful rework, remastered the visuals of Shen and properly applied his supposed gameplay identity to a kit that fits in his lore.
They removed a lot of sustain in favor of damage. He needed a real weakness. If you really want sustain you can always rush Bork in s13 and delay mythic
YES!
I really miss that ability.
@@johnnymac6242 what an actual bronze would build :)
@n4z p12 shen is item independent, he can build almost anything. The only thing that matters is your gamesense, positioning and mechanics. Go watch any Xpetu video. I said to build BotRK bc it provides good stats for Shen IF YOU WANTED SUSTAIN. Learn to read.
You're probably a gold player with good mechanics and zero gamesense the way u came in with that bronze insult tho.
@@johnnymac6242 you're actually so funny. The dude is a freakin shen one trick youtuber. Ofc he's gonna do crazy sh*t builds for content. The only way to play him is TANK (divine sunderer and titanic hydra being the offensive option, and NOT BORK). If you're building "anything", then you're not gonna accomplish what you should be doing, which is frontlining. Smh
Shen is an addictive champion, Just play him for a couple of games and you won't be able to leave ever again.
He is just so good at everything! I played him in literally every role in the game.
He can't adc, that's for sure. He can do everything else though. It's just like Leona and Nautilus and the old Alistar. The old Alistar was one of the best champions in the game until he was completely destroyed by the rework/ultra nerf.
@HeavenlyWarrior put a shen main in the adc role, and they will make it work.
What are the issues with shen adc really ?
Too much poke = shen has enough sustain and damage mitigation.
Low cs = shen operates well at low cs.
On top of that, shen's strong early game will guarantee early game dragons.
Shen ult means you can quick join any fight even if you don't have prio.
Does he deal damage ?
His empowered Q deals massive damage and with ghost ignite he can 1v1 legitimate adcs(let alone heartsteel).
The presence of a support in lane makes shen stronger because his abilities are designed to be selfless.
Only downside is that he doesn't melt tanks, problem solved by having your team adapt.
Have a Yi or trist mid on your team for example.
@@mido3071 Shen is melee. What are you talking about!? He can't adc! The only melee champion sometimes some "noob" play as ADC is yasuo because despite being melee he has ranged abilities and uses the same items as ADC.
@HeavenlyWarrior I'm not saying he can adc in challenger.
But try him in low elo. Doesn't matter if you are melee, you can make it work. I like how you ignored everything I said just to say he was melee, lol.
@@mido3071 Of course, melee champs are not ADC's so he can't adc.
There are extremely good players in low elo, it depends on the match. Only in iron you find all the scum.
this brings a smile to my face, amazing video as always !
I've picked up shen as a rotating member of my ever changing mid/top roster, and have been having a lot of fun and success playing the champ. I love how "active" his playstyle is, micro managing sword placement, energy and keeping an eye out for any good ult ganks you can pull of is super satisfying. seeing XPetu play him mid has also inspired me a lot (i recommend giving him a watch, he's hillarious as well)
Old shen seems interesting too, especially the old Q. too bad i only started league 2 years ago lol (right around when Akshan released)
Ahhh yes I remember old Shen's kit fondly. His Q was pretty fun to throw around when playing Lighting Shen and his sustain was probably one of the weirdier ways for your allies to regain health.
I really enjoyed old shen. The passive and vorpal blade were just so good. I never have been able to enjoy him after the update though, he just plays so differently. I dislike having to micromanage the giant floating sword.
I adored old shen, that said I currently enjoy him very much as a jungler with hail of blades. The only down side to shen is how often your ult can be wasted very easily by teammates who aren't paying attention.
What a good video!! Also OMG u used the wonderlands x showtime bgm story music 😭💖
Wonderhoy moment
@@CryoBeat WONDERHOOOOOY!!! 💖💖
Man, I'm surprised there aren't more people mentioning the river shen meme in the comments. The way you did it in the video really cracked me up, lmao.
On the other hand, another great video that tickled my nostalgia. I loved old shen, and although I can't say I'm dissatisfied with the rework, the old one will always have a place in my heart.
I loved playing shen and having alot of regen boosts. Basically throw a sword and hit someone and then boom +20 hp a second for like 4 seconds. Loved old shen so much. Unkillable.
So cool to see some of these old players names… old school players will recognize a lot of them
This is legit the first time I have ever heard about River Shen
Main Shen since 2016 and just love the gameplay!
I played the old shen a lot,never played him since his rework ,never bother to learn his "new" kit ,until this video :P
Came to this a year later, currently patch 14.12, shen is in healthy state. Mid lanes has been the popular flex pick because of his insane early dmg and river shen is still thriving
Pre-rework Shen's Q is one of the best poking & sustain skill for a tank champion. I think that is one of the reasons why they reworked Shen's Q for more aggressive playstyle.
Gotta love the chapters
Cryo what are your thoughts on an on-hit ap thresh build. Mythic could maybe be riftmaker, nh, or liandrys, and then running stuff like nashors and lich bane could be very funny due to the on hit of both stacking with your e on hit and the ap you collect overtime. With riftmaker you also get some very nice omnivamp. Might be stupid not sure just want your opinion lol.
Tried river shen once. It was great. This makes me wanna do it in 2023
Omg scuttle crab is definitely Shen E-Ing when he dashes
Man i almost forgot siv thanks for the nostalgia
Great Video :3
I…miss old shen. The same way I miss old graves. These were champions I sucked at, fell in love with, and mained until I consistently won every ranked game….
I remember playing shen full ap cause his q and e had ap ratio and it was fun and noone expected ap dmg from him
Im sure one day we'll reach to a tryndemere/shyvana : before the rework episodes
🙃🙃
My boy, finally
Honestly the old Q was amazing. Perma potion was incredible. You could heal all your team landing your q in nash/Drake and as support, put your q in cannon Minion and your adc heals like 200 HP for free. Was an amazing tool and I miss It a lot.
I remember League did that All for 1 game mode where everyone played the same champ on their team.
I made everyone go Shen. We were ulting each other like crazy, it was hilarious.
i miss my lightning shen in the midlane had so much fun back in the day
New shen feels like an spiritual ninja that its his lore. Gameplay is the 1vs1 splitpisher tank that he was always. Also he has some great damage itemizations
Sir, Irelia "Before the Rework" when? These videos are amazing!
the absolute GIGACHAD
The best combo i had as a shen was with udyr. no matter how behind ur jungle udyr was. you were able to do baron at min 15 together. shens q was so powerfull-
RIVER SHEN
Haha I forgot Shen use to walk like "he's chained to a car" according to my friend. My first memory of him is when I decided to try him out to "travel" with my friend who was playing Panth at the time. I'll never forget how we timed it perfectly imperfect. I arrived before the Panth did, so I just teleported to where he was going to land. Needless to say, everyone involved was confused.
I used to play old shen in the jg, his q was able to solo golem at full hp and solo drag at lvl 5.
One of my favorite moment on the rift was with Shen. The enemy started the drake and I TPd on a ward in the pit, and I arrived just in the right time and stole it with Q. That thing did like 60 dmg :D
NGL im a full on Shen main and play him every role. YES ALSO ADC (lethal tempo + Trinity force or gale force works perfectly fine)
But the best thing about Shen in my opinion is that it forces you to get better map awareness. My friends only recently started playing league, so I recommended one of them Shen and it improved his undertanding of the game, while the other was still figuring out why he kept being ganked while pushed in on bot.
One thing I really miss about the old Shen is the sustain from his Q, IMO it's kinda strange that they removed it and every other tank/bruiser still or was giving some form of sustain to keep them in the lane.
It's also odd that as consistent/popular (mostly in pro play) as Shen has been he still doesn't have a legendary skin with new voice lines >:(
took full mpen runes and was a poking menance with old shen
Shen is awesome! Old Shen was one of my first characters and I managed to get my first Quadra Kill with him by having 4 people mistake a half health Shen as an easy kill and try kill me one at a time. I thought it was so funny that this invincible ninja would get in your face and wack you with a sword a hundred times before he could kill you. He was great for learning the game. New Shen is probably my favorite top laner because he is pretty skill expressive and is always useful to the team. I do miss the Q heal though. I can't wait for this new Ashen skin.
i haven't seen a shen in so long i completely forgot shen was even in the game
Pre rework AP Shen was so fun
i still miss old shen.
I was getting nervous that there wasn't going to be a River Shen reference.
I think you should have talked about Wild Rift Shen. His W now can be targeted to allies. As a Shen player, I most say that it's much more comfortable than spending a Q energy just for place the sword in the right spot u.u
I do would love his W works like in wild rift. Would prefer to point and click on an ally or the free ability to reposition it.
THE RIVER SHEN IS REAL
Damn Gong's duel links theme kinda fits him though
Honestly I'm probably weird for this but the main thing I miss about old shen was just the old visuals and sound effects. Something about them was just appealing to me LOL
Hot take but old shen's ability to create space was the best thing about him. Q let you push around their tanks, W made sure you didn't get poked down while doing it, and E was held in reserve as a lethal finisher that rewarded you for forcing mispositioning. It feels like new shen has to commit far sooner to fights since he doesn't have to tools to play as close to enemy team without triggering a full on teamfight.
Old Shen Main here. Shen top was a bully with his old Q. I won almost every lane back in the good old days. Just spam Q whenever you were near the enemy and get him down enough to get the junglers intrest to gank. Hit E - Profit.
Shen is a good fun champ nowadays but i find his kit a bit lacking compared to more recent champions, i feel like adding back the healing on his empowered Q but it would only heal him would be nice (wouldn't work on monster so his jgl wouldn't be too op)
in normal games Shen's one of my favourite brawlers. While he isn't quite a champ like Camille who can jump on you and delete you with a massive burst of true damage, he's fun when it comes to jumping into a fight with a clutch ultimate and then drawing all the aggro to let a teammate get away. On top of that he's durable enough that he has a chance of getting away himself, or at least turning the teamfight around. That said, On-Hit Shen in URF is some of the most fun I've had in the game mode. Something about taunting someone only to eviscerate them in 3 autos while they cannot retaliate is beautiful, especially if the enemy is a fed ADC.
I started playing league well after Shen got reworked, that being said, Shen is my most played champion by far. I think he is one of the most fair and rewarding champions in the game, and saving someone with your R is soooooo satisfying. Is he strong? Absolutely. Annoying? Maybe to some, but he does take quit a bit of map awareness and macro in order to execute properly.
Hello Cryo,
I want say u thx, i'm a big thresh fan and i was bored to play him supp so i tryed to play him jng 3 season ago and it didn't work so i leave thresh, and watching ur video give me hope in my thresh tank peel jng now i spam him in jng and i'm still bronze for the moment but i won and i have a lot of pleasure to play him jng so thx u Cryo, maybe one day i will stream my games of thresh jng ahah.
Cordialy Purepink Bless
I enjoyed old Shen, but I couldn’t play him for too long. His dueling felt too simplistic to me with a targeted Q then auto spam. I count his rework among the top 3 best reworks Riot has produced thus far alongside Fiddlesticks and Warwick. After I went on a break from League in season 6 and returned around season 9, champions I used to play a lot either were reworked beyond recognition or were barely touched and still had pretty much the same playstyle that wouldn’t get me hyped anymore. That’s when I fell in love with my boy! I sorely regret not having played him more post-rework right away, because once it clicked and your skill rotations started to be so crisp that the enemy laner wouldn’t know how to deal with you anymore, that influx of dopamine was akin to my first pentakill. I don’t have time to play league on PC anymore due to work, but I do play WR on a daily basis and popping off on him is such a great feeling. He unironically stands in that perfect balance of being simple enough that you don’t have to practice fancy combos or animation cancels to succeed, yet he is intricate enough with the manipulation of his spirit blade that mastering him takes a good while. And although his voice lines are old and very limited, the VA choice is just 💋👌. No other champion exudes such confidence while remaining calm and wise.
Shen is love, Shen is life! ❤️
Shaco before the Rework where?
Shit it’s crazy to think that some people don’t know about River Shen. I’ve been playing for longer than I realize.
I got a penta on old tank shen. My highest achievement. Also rip static shiv split push shen.
River Shen 👍
im pretty sure the reason im a shen main is because of river shen videos and the fact i lost to shen when i started playing LOL and wanted to understand how he works
a weird reason to main a character, but as it seems, he fits my playstyle of guarding people while not only tanking
Shen's W became the Edge of Night item built by assasins nowadays
Probably under the radar, but xerath was once reworked. Might be interesting to look at that clunky old mess
River Shen!
OG shen was a disgusting split pusher, the sustain on his old Q was nasty. My favorite feature of the rework was they managed to keep him completely unreliant on items. Shen is one of the few champs that can successfully build almost anything.
New shen sucks donkey hangers.
been playing shen since s5, huge difference in how he plays. the only bad part of the rework is his current E doesn't have an AP scaling. but then again riot aren't keen with build diversity.
Most fun champ imo
Thresh is a close second
xPetu is the best all time Shen & he has a great video pulling off River Shen in todays league
Can you do Evelyn next? I miss old Eve. Back when you could go ad/hybrid.
Everybody talks about river shen, but never about lightning shen.
Basically me if I play top "when in doubt, pick shen"
dude said iconic ult
Opinion of the rework: Is above average. That being said is one i kinda forget even happen because Shen just... didn't change in practice. It looks roughly the same unlike other reworks, and is still a warden with a global teleport, a dashing taunt and lots of self-peel tools, who loves to splitpush despite being a tank with low AoE; the same realm as Ezreal and Talon of "next to no change but definitely improved". He was good before and is slightly better now.
The one thing that’s always bugged me about Shen was the Ap scalings on his abilities, simply because *No* Shen I’ve heard of for ages has built even the slightest amount of Ap and instead focused on Tank and AD.
Tank makes sense of course, but he hasn’t really got any Ad scaling outside of being a champ that Autoattacks a ton, which yes, clearly works very well, but it just feels like a waste somehow.
I loved the Shen rework but the complete removal of his health sustain/ regain was extremely heartbreaking. Wish it was still in his kit in some form, maybe on his passive in a Maokai way.
Well they buffed (a loit) his own health regen and regen per level, so there's that... kinda
Oh shit, Bowblax is a member? 👀
I miss old Shen jungle :(
I miss him :(
I remember dropping Shen when they reworked him. Now I'm back to my wholesome happy ranked self maining ghost/ignite Shen mid... cuz toplane is just a miserable place lol
Dr Mundo!!!
I still play shen Jg, and sometimes rivershen
I really miss old League...
Ah, I remember the old Q: throwing butter knives
While shen's q changes make him SEEM annoying. The fact you dash through people with your E makes it a shockingly reliable trade tool. I was kind've not on the train with his changes at first, but shen is mostly played for his taunt and ultimate. Therefore making the rest of his kit more engaging was a welcome change.
Yay! River shen, that thing that broke riot!
Zyra next!
I really need a job and I have run out of places to apply to I have to stink or something even though I showered and dressed up before every interview I got ghosted by.