Haha yeah right, downtube shifters are zéro maintenance but they can’t handle actual bad weather abuse like 105 lever shifters for example, had two cold rides in the rain on old campagnolo downtube shifters and one brusque shift made it break in 2 pieces
@@hopfag6555 I'll take "Things that never happened" for $1000 Alex... I rode Ene downtube shifters through 5 years of Wisconsin winters on a commuter that literally never came inside. Never a single issue. I have never had indexed shifters of any kind or quality that could take that kind of a beating and still perform without issue. In fact those same Ene shifters are currently on an Ogre built for offroad touring (now on shifter pods on the handlebars) and they get absolutely abused and they've never failed me. I have 90s Trek frames with Shimano downtube shifters that still work like new. There are very few moving parts and unless they take a hard direct hit I've never known a decent quality downtube shifter to fail, definitely can't say the same for indexed lever shifters.
@@hopfag6555You’re one example is countered by untold thousands of examples of downtube shifters just working in all kinds of conditions. Must be more to the story. Care to tell?
@@CountryB4Party well downtube shifters especially more performant models are not full metal and they got some kind of ceramic texture in the inside which all broke with a brusque load even if it wants heavy in any way… this is not the first exemple of those downtube shifters failing especially shimano’s
@@hopfag6555 "performant medals?" what meaning lightweight and brittle? Just have proper metal ones.. Campagonolo are not necessarily of decent quality metal, mainly just crafted to look nice and with relatively good engendering tolerances. A lot of "fancy shmancy" French and Italian components do actually just shear of and break sooner or later. If you want old school European metal then English or German seem to hold up much better over decades of aging, otherwise Japanese/Taiwanese of course is generally decent.
Five other benefits of dt shifters: Much shorter cable length so more direct "feel" when shifting and less cable stretch. No need to fuss with tensioning to get the rear derailleur indexing just right. Easy to trim the front derailleur as needed. If a cable breaks, just take what's left and use one of your bottle cage bolts to lock it in place/tension it for the gear you want to be in to get by. No need for a lot of cable housing.
Nice tips! I've also seen people take the remaining length and put the cable head directly into the barrel adjustor on the derailleur, tension it to which gear you want to be in, and wind the excess into a loop. That actually works well for a budget single speed, too!
I love down tube shifters, especially if I am riding on the drops, I can reach right down and shift. The greatest thing about down tube shifters is that they are out of the way when you aren't using them, and maintenance is easy. Replacing cables doesn't require removing bar tape, threading the cable through the inside of the frame, or any other annoying routing, and replacing the shift levers is a similarly easy task.
Really? I'm shifting in the drops without taking hands off the bars with brifters and maintaining complete control over the bike. I have friction downtube shifters on my commuter. It's never as easy to shift. What it is is reliable and light
I had the ball end come off the cable on my rear dura ace brake/shift lever. I replaced the cable and went on a ride with some friends. It turns out that ball end of the cable jammed somehow into the lever and caused all kinds of problems. Sometimes it would work ok but most of the time on the ride I had a two speed bike. Trying to figure out the problem and getting that ball end out of the brake lever was horrible. It never would have happened if I had down tube friction shift levers. Sometimes less is more.
I’ve got two early 80s Raleigh Randonneurs (531ST frames) with downtube shifters. Love them. So simple, so elegant and so easy to use. Bikes, like life, were simple then. No complicated brake levers, no internal routed cables, no hydraulics, no tubeless mess, and no electrickery gear shift.
Love it. I've been pondering how I'd build a new bike for 2024 and you've just shown me. (However, I would try to find some vintage Shimano Deore derailleurs...) But it's as near a perfect bike as I can imagine. Now I'm an old fella who not only prefers a steel frame, but I love the aesthetics of a curved steel fork. Match that with side pull brake calipers with downtube shifters and it's just wonderful. The silver components with the brass details simply makes this a gorgeous build. I'll take one, please. Seeing this video has soothed my cycling soul. Thank you.
Love that rear dropout system. As someone who loves to ride fixed, but who also lives somewhere with a lot of hills this makes a lot of sense to me. When (if) I ever stretch to having a bike made for me I'll look for something similar.
I’ve ridden bikes for 50 years, I have six bikes varying from the 50s up to the late eighties, all except one (sturmey 3 speed ) have DT shifters. I feel comfortable and muscle memory helps with getting shifts right, well 90% of the time anyway. I still use straps and clips, and quite often I’m in the pedal and away before the SPD and clip less crowd. I do envy the brifter brigade occasionally but I’m used to the old school and it’s worked for me all those years, and simplicity is usually a lot more reliable and easier to fix on the road.
Such a nice build. Simple,good quality and pleasing to the eye. Interestingly in direct contrast to the latest,drop seat stay,Carbon,disc brake road bike,complete with in-house wheels,seat pin,bar/stem combo….been racing,riding,touring,sportif participating since 1970’s..following the tech as I went. Now it has,in my opinion passed a point whereby I feel….ENOUGH! Last year ditched my Carbon MTB frame and bought a hand built 853 steel. Recently built a 531 Road bike with 11 Speed Campy Record. If I was taking on a long tour would look to use downtube shifters,for simplicity and ease of maintenance…
So true. You don't need a ton of tech to have a nice riding bike. Not all riders are trying to win races and searching for marginal gains. Most people just want a nice and practical bike without breaking the bank. Sometimes the best bike is the one you forget about when riding it.
Thanks for the video. I'm setting up my Crosscheck with downtube shifters later this year so a reminder was very helpful. Presta valve washers trick was worth the price of admission.
I went from dt to bar end shifters on my rain bike and am quite happy with them. Something to think about if you're older and don't feel like reaching down there. Just something neat about being more of a part of slipping through the gears, fits perfectly with 'just riding'.
The digital screen is a detriment to a quality life, if you do not recognize its danger and treat it accordingly. The bicycle and its usefulness is not appreciated in a larger world seduced into mental illness by and of Digital madness.
I have DT shifters on my Surly Cross Checkset up for general riding, utility and touring. With both shifters set to friction mode, it is easy to get perfect shifting with a bit of experience and they can be adjusted for silent pedalling. Any stretch in the cables can be adjusted out to maintain silence.
Tuned in because I still ride the downtube shifter Bridgestone RB-2 that I bought in 1994. Fascinating video, loved learning about all the minute details.
Personally, I HATE how modern brifters wobble/accidentally shift as im grabbing a hand full of brake in any given situation. They need stronger resistance springs or just less free play. Until then, DT shifters are king
I've used downtube shifters on my winter bikes for years. I case you crash on a slippery road you don't ruin expensive STI type shifters. Years ago i build an MTB with Paul Thumbies and downtube 9 speed shifters when everyone else was on 8 speed because there were no MTB 9 speed groups.
Very nice. I grew up as a kid first getting into cycling in the 70's so this is evocative of the period in a wonderful way. I love that classic groupset with the drillings but SRAM mechs as a twist. (Remember the black anodized Zeus drilled cranksets?- a fav of mine back in the day.) My only thing is this frame color... there are probably 500 other colors/schemes I'd like better than that one, but to each their own -- it's still a very cool and unique build with that interesting frame! I do say that the frame color somehow works better with the tire color, bar tape and brown saddle combo. The frame geometry looks sort of classic touring, or am I incorrect?
It's a mix of classic fit and modern front end geo. A bit slacker front end for better handling for long distance. It's isn't low trail, so it likes to be minimally loaded. It's the smoothest road bike I've ridden in years. You can find the geo chart on the product webpage in the description: velo-orange.com/products/rando-frameset
For my newly build steel road bike, I chose Shimano’s 8-speed index down tube shifters, I just love their light weight and simplicity! And the index system is very handy and practical too.
@@JackY-pu5nhI have the same shifter. It's a Shimano SL-R400 down tube shifter or a Shimano claris DT shifter. I have it paired to the claris long cage rear derailleur but have used it with the suntour r80 and it works great with both. I've had it for a little over a year and a half now and I've noticed some wear on the shifter and it doesn't shift as well as when it was new but still works pretty damn well
@@velo_orangeit's a bummer you can't fit a rear rack onto the rando frame. I would buy this frameset today if you could. I'm running a State Bike Co 4130 Road frame and even though it's very strong and solid, it's a compact frame with super aggressive geometry and isn't really conducive to the type of riding I do (bike packing, endurance and gravel). The rando checks all the boxes I'm looking for except you can't put a rack on it. Pretty hard to find frames like this these days that use side pull caliber brakes, standard QR axles and relaxed geometry
Your reasons for friction shifters are spot on. My old Suntour ratcheting shifters keep doing their job, through changes in bike, gears, and chain rings. And now I have a new Shimano bottom-line derailer - and it all works together, smooth as glass.
Where I live most people ride 70-80s road bikes around town due to the theft risk - nearly all with downtube shifters and this doesn't seem to pose any issue. As you say, simple and effective. I'm not going to say I don't like integrated brake shifters either.
I have strong respect for restoration/building and if that includes a bygone shifting technology (and it works well) then I totally appreciate this direction. Down Tube shifting is not my preference, but after reading other comments I have a better understanding of the pros and cons. Great video, I especially liked the rim brake installation! That’s an old school tech I can get behind. Thanks for sharing!
I like them because they are reliable and SILENT. I have a very quiet road bike I ride at night and I love hearing birds and things without the freewheel sizzle or hard clanking shifts.
Downtube shifters are great. I ride 9-10k miles a year and 2/3 of those miles are typically on a bike with downtube shifters. Super reliable and easy to use once mastered. I can even shift both levers simultaneously with one hand.
Great video, really enjoyed it. I do wish you would not have skipped adjusting the limit screws. That’s one thing a lot of home mechanics start with and it’s always worth seeing a pro do it.
Noted! We've done it in previous videos, but will be sure to include it in the future. The yaw derailleurs are definitely outside the norm for adjustments. It wouldn't be the first option now that I've done it. Going with a regular 105 or Sora would be better for this build.
It is ok. I think Nic ended up switching to a regular Campy or Shimano derailleur because he didn't like the yaw. If I did it again, I'd go with a Sora or 105 front derailleur for this setup.@@ThisTimeTheWorld
@@velo_orange 105 is great stuff. Sora looks good but I haven't tried it yet. I have a pair of 3x7 brifters I might use next year. I likenthe campy style thumb triggers
@rollinrat4850 campy is neat but stuck up and high dollar. One of the first things I learned about bikes was campy stuff is pretty much made to only work with other campy stuff. Italian bbs are weird, too.
Love my down tube shifters. 650b swapped an 80's race bike to fit 42mm slicks and 9 speed cassette. It's a fantastic bike for mixed terrain. Though really, I just clicked on the video to find out who makes the brown shifter covers... I think VO needs to source a new run of these. I need them for the barcons on my latest build!
Nice! Rustines used to make them, but I no longer think they do. They stopped doing the bike stuff during the pandemic to focus on their industrial business.
@@velo_orange Yup, I did a quick search last night and found a few international shops that still had stock. Will have to check out shipping costs. Think there's a chance of talking Dia Compe into creating some molds?
Man, Id love one of these with a 650b wheelsetso I can squeeze in a slightly bigger tire.. I really like this.. Def could use something nice to cruise these FL streets..
At times I would bring & still ride either of my 2 orig Campy equip road bikes from the 70's.1) Legnano 2 ) Vincini & everytime I ride in NYC Central Park & there's tons of modern racing road bikes that I don't even know the names. the ones in modern ultra expensive ones would stares at me like I'm a UFO LOL / Dinasaur bike they're thinking? & the ones that knows what I'm riding vintage downshifters would give me a thump up! & that is all I ride - never owned a mid 80's up road bike yet but someday I will.
I grew up with friction downtube shifters, and have them on most of my road bikes. (Two have non-indexed SunTour barcons, and the mountain bike has SunTour thumbies operating in non-indexed mode.
Great video as I’m almost ready to start building up my Pass Hunter frame after spending a few months acquiring some parts and pieces. Mostly VO with a smattering of parts bin stuff. Love the little tips. Enjoy your day.
I bought the wrong size bars for my shimano bar end shifters Will have to use the downtube shifters, and they work, a little overhaul and they are smooth and tight just hate to hunch over every time I want to shift, and of course, I have to be there for a while as i slowly friction shift into perfect chain alignment I used to ride 50 miles up to San Fransisco, and I remember by the time I got there my thumb was so sore from hanging off the top tube and my finger joints from pulling the levers
DTs are a great example of "Newer may be better in some ways, but older is also great." I'm building up an RB1 and I'm actually converting it to DTs even though it had non-original bar ends on it. The other thing too is: Early STIs weren't super great, so if you want to stay period correct but also have good performance, DTs are the way to go.
Used DS for many years and now Im trying to adapt to end bars shifters and keeping on hitting the front one with my knee , very annoying but the back one I really like it and I think I can get used to it my hand is down there most of the time anyways.
This reminds me of when Bridgstone wouldn't equip its mountain bikes with trigger shifters. Their rationale (Grant Peterson's, actually) was that most of their riders were unsupported so if a shifter broke, they could always put it in friction mode and get home.
Nice! I love the all silver build and frame color. I found friction DT shifter to be hard to keep in gear with modern cassettes and chains. The newer stuff is meant to mke shifting easy, with ramps and pins, which makes the chain switch too easy for DT shifter (when not shifting). I do love DT shifter and one of my bikes has Dura-Ace 9sp DT shifters with a cheap Shimano rear derailleur - it works wonderfully.
Interesting point. I feel like 10 speed (cassette) is the pinnacle of friction shifting. Cogs aren't too close together, but the range options and crankset compatibility is seemingly endless. And the derailleurs are so cheap and good.
I had the same issue with newer cassette gearing as well, using both DuraAce bar ends and simplex retrofriction down tube shifters. I wonder if the larger 50mm pull on the VO shifters would give more precision? Years ago I always used ultra 7 freewheels for road but standard 6 speed for crits as it had more “room” for less precise shifts. So would an 11 or 12 speed chain lesson the chance of auto shift with 10 speeds?
@@leepin_lemur I don't think an 11sp chain would fit on a 10sp cassette. So I don't think it would help tremendously. I think auto shifting is a consequence of frame flex, too. But that's more in the front.
My bike would ghost shift when I stood up for more power. I think the frame flex would cause the cable tension to change in the slightest amount, and the chain would get close enough to the cog ramps to cause it to change gears. Now I didn't try every type of chain or cassettes.
My three most used bikes have downtube shifters. The only issue is reach from the bars if you have a very large frame (though you probably have very long arms, too!), and the same distance issue if you run 26" wheels. On the plus side, if you have a small frame like my wife's 19" with a short stem, DT levers are practically at hand. Also seen top tube and head tube levers on custom frames, and anyone remember Suntour twin levers mounted on a pip on top of the downtube, c1982?
My no fuss just ride for fun/parts bike/make me stronger bike is a steel Lotus Excelle, rocking drop tube non indexed shifters. Makes it easy to switch gearing in the rear from 7 all the way to 11 speed. Just a little adjustment to the derailleur.
I might have the most downtube shifter content on UA-cam, and when I go STI shifting, I just wind up coming back to downtube shifters. There’s nothing like it and feels so pure to riding. Plus it’s cheap and easy to work on! That’s just a set in stone fact!
Was searching quite a bit recently for a new steel frame with modern spacing but for rim brakes. There's only a few available these days. I was less keen to spend the amount required to get a Rando, but it was eventually the best option. Looking forward to receiving and building it up. This will be my first time owning a modern frame, so I'm really curious to see how it feels to wrench on.
Went to Velo Base. Lacking…. Nothing about Trecia, Walt Matthauser hydraulic brakes, Robert Barrett Side Bi-Valent style tear hub. Important items to me.
I’d love to put these 11 speed capable DT shifters on my latest build, but they haven’t been in stock for a while. Any idea when they might be available again?
A pity about the paint chips on the frame at the hanger. Anyway, no grease or thread lock on those bolts on the hanger? I would perhaps have done things differently. Nice build.
Good video, however I can't help thinking how great this bike would look with a 1" threaded fork and a Cinelli stem and bar. Also, quill stems are so much more easily height adjustable.
In my experience friction shifters work better with more gears. It seems hard to find the right gear with a 5 speed freewheel. When using friction shifters with an 8 speed cassette it's much easier and faster in shifting and fine tuning gear selection
Interesting take. I found my 6 speed uniglide cassette with Dura-Ace EX derailleurs to be an excellent friction shifting experience. That wheelset cracked, unfortunately, so now I'm running with a modern 8 speed wheelset + modern derailleurs and I'm finding that to be a great experience too. Just different.
That 70s Bike Show Thank you for putting a steel fork on a steel bike. Why do headset press fittings never get stuck and seatposts do? You need enough room between the preloader cap and the steerer tube so they do not contact. An additional spacer above the stem can solve the problem. GREASE! you can slide the crank arm too far up the taper of the BB spindle. You greased the tapers but not the crank arm bolts (?). Thank you for greasing the dust caps (so they will not get stuck). Even plastic dust caps get stuck. I once measured a Richard Sachs and the BB had 80mm of drop, yours is 68mm. Can water bottle cage bolts get stuck over time? really long seat posts will rub against the inside of the seat tube. They can creek. We have cut them shorter (120 mm insertion) to eliminate that annoying sound.
Downtube shifters are great for guys* who used to ride single speed and fixed in the 00's and still want to stand out from the crowd today despite their worn out knee cartilage. *tbh I'm one of those guys
Did all my racing in the 70s and 80s on downtube shifters either friction or later indexed the only real downside was you couldn’t change gear going uphill out of the saddle
Very nice. Couple of comments: Those Sram derailleurs are a bit ugly, Campagnolo would be my choice. Bit surprised you didn't use a torque wrench for tightening the BB cups, crank bolts and cassette lock ring.
My original build did have Campagnolo! velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/lets-talk-rando-builds In my years in the industry, I only use torque wrenches on carbon bits. Just a lot of experience and a carefully calibrated elbow.
The swappable drop out is a very clever design!
Thanks!
Every great bike should live through several incarnations
Downtube and friction shifters in general are great. Pretty much indestructible, simple, and beautiful. Love a classy Rando build.
Haha yeah right, downtube shifters are zéro maintenance but they can’t handle actual bad weather abuse like 105 lever shifters for example, had two cold rides in the rain on old campagnolo downtube shifters and one brusque shift made it break in 2 pieces
@@hopfag6555 I'll take "Things that never happened" for $1000 Alex... I rode Ene downtube shifters through 5 years of Wisconsin winters on a commuter that literally never came inside. Never a single issue. I have never had indexed shifters of any kind or quality that could take that kind of a beating and still perform without issue. In fact those same Ene shifters are currently on an Ogre built for offroad touring (now on shifter pods on the handlebars) and they get absolutely abused and they've never failed me. I have 90s Trek frames with Shimano downtube shifters that still work like new. There are very few moving parts and unless they take a hard direct hit I've never known a decent quality downtube shifter to fail, definitely can't say the same for indexed lever shifters.
@@hopfag6555You’re one example is countered by untold thousands of examples of downtube shifters just working in all kinds of conditions. Must be more to the story. Care to tell?
@@CountryB4Party well downtube shifters especially more performant models are not full metal and they got some kind of ceramic texture in the inside which all broke with a brusque load even if it wants heavy in any way… this is not the first exemple of those downtube shifters failing especially shimano’s
@@hopfag6555 "performant medals?" what meaning lightweight and brittle?
Just have proper metal ones.. Campagonolo are not necessarily of decent quality metal, mainly just crafted to look nice and with relatively good engendering tolerances. A lot of "fancy shmancy" French and Italian components do actually just shear of and break sooner or later. If you want old school European metal then English or German seem to hold up much better over decades of aging, otherwise Japanese/Taiwanese of course is generally decent.
Five other benefits of dt shifters: Much shorter cable length so more direct "feel" when shifting and less cable stretch. No need to fuss with tensioning to get the rear derailleur indexing just right. Easy to trim the front derailleur as needed. If a cable breaks, just take what's left and use one of your bottle cage bolts to lock it in place/tension it for the gear you want to be in to get by. No need for a lot of cable housing.
Nice tips! I've also seen people take the remaining length and put the cable head directly into the barrel adjustor on the derailleur, tension it to which gear you want to be in, and wind the excess into a loop. That actually works well for a budget single speed, too!
I like the cut of your jib sir
If someone wants to build a retro bike with older technology, I say go for it, but let's not pretend like it's some kind of performance upgrade 😅
@@TheTrailRabbit No, but it's a quality of life upgrade.
@@TheTrailRabbit Let's enjoy the simplicity, unless you are racing, it is 100% better. It performs better when others fail.
a build with deep significance for the cosmic order and then some TIMELESS an ELIXER to theGODS of transport
amen
I love down tube shifters, especially if I am riding on the drops, I can reach right down and shift. The greatest thing about down tube shifters is that they are out of the way when you aren't using them, and maintenance is easy. Replacing cables doesn't require removing bar tape, threading the cable through the inside of the frame, or any other annoying routing, and replacing the shift levers is a similarly easy task.
Likewise, loads of other possibilities too, cheap, lightweight, drop levers and v's, although they suck in traffic.
What people forget is how much weight brifters add to the handle bars. Downtube shifters all the time.
Stop the world, i wanna get off.
Really? I'm shifting in the drops without taking hands off the bars with brifters and maintaining complete control over the bike. I have friction downtube shifters on my commuter. It's never as easy to shift. What it is is reliable and light
I had the ball end come off the cable on my rear dura ace brake/shift lever. I replaced the cable and went on a ride with some friends. It turns out that ball end of the cable jammed somehow into the lever and caused all kinds of problems. Sometimes it would work ok but most of the time on the ride I had a two speed bike. Trying to figure out the problem and getting that ball end out of the brake lever was horrible. It never would have happened if I had down tube friction shift levers. Sometimes less is more.
I’ve got two early 80s Raleigh Randonneurs (531ST frames) with downtube shifters. Love them. So simple, so elegant and so easy to use. Bikes, like life, were simple then. No complicated brake levers, no internal routed cables, no hydraulics, no tubeless mess, and no electrickery gear shift.
I love downtube shifters. For a commuter bike they are awesome and easy to fix/maintain for a non-mechanic.
Love it. I've been pondering how I'd build a new bike for 2024 and you've just shown me. (However, I would try to find some vintage Shimano Deore derailleurs...) But it's as near a perfect bike as I can imagine. Now I'm an old fella who not only prefers a steel frame, but I love the aesthetics of a curved steel fork. Match that with side pull brake calipers with downtube shifters and it's just wonderful. The silver components with the brass details simply makes this a gorgeous build. I'll take one, please. Seeing this video has soothed my cycling soul. Thank you.
My first road bike, a Peugeot, had downtube friction shifters - takes me back!
Love that rear dropout system. As someone who loves to ride fixed, but who also lives somewhere with a lot of hills this makes a lot of sense to me. When (if) I ever stretch to having a bike made for me I'll look for something similar.
So beautiful bike !
It is the practical demonstration that you can have a great bike in 2023 with dowtonwn shifters.
Bravo !
Such a beautiful bike! Exactly what I would want for myself!!
I’ve ridden bikes for 50 years, I have six bikes varying from the 50s up to the late eighties, all except one (sturmey 3 speed ) have DT shifters. I feel comfortable and muscle memory helps with getting shifts right, well 90% of the time anyway. I still use straps and clips, and quite often I’m in the pedal and away before the SPD and clip less crowd. I do envy the brifter brigade occasionally but I’m used to the old school and it’s worked for me all those years, and simplicity is usually a lot more reliable and easier to fix on the road.
Such a nice build. Simple,good quality and pleasing to the eye. Interestingly in direct contrast to the latest,drop seat stay,Carbon,disc brake road bike,complete with in-house wheels,seat pin,bar/stem combo….been racing,riding,touring,sportif participating since 1970’s..following the tech as I went. Now it has,in my opinion passed a point whereby I feel….ENOUGH! Last year ditched my Carbon MTB frame and bought a hand built 853 steel. Recently built a 531 Road bike with 11 Speed Campy Record. If I was taking on a long tour would look to use downtube shifters,for simplicity and ease of maintenance…
So true. You don't need a ton of tech to have a nice riding bike. Not all riders are trying to win races and searching for marginal gains. Most people just want a nice and practical bike without breaking the bank. Sometimes the best bike is the one you forget about when riding it.
N+1
Thanks for the video. I'm setting up my Crosscheck with downtube shifters later this year so a reminder was very helpful. Presta valve washers trick was worth the price of admission.
I went from dt to bar end shifters on my rain bike and am quite happy with them. Something to think about if you're older and don't feel like reaching down there. Just something neat about being more of a part of slipping through the gears, fits perfectly with 'just riding'.
nice build. I still have my Simplex Retro shifters from the mid 80s when I raced. Pre-SIS, these shifters were awesome. I still have them today !
I have a full set lying dormant in my parts bin. I also have a naked one on my keychain for the Bus.
The bicycle used to be such a democratic tool for man. It brought us industry and freedom. This build is the embodiment of the glory of the bicycle.
The digital screen is a detriment to a quality life, if you do not recognize its danger and treat it accordingly.
The bicycle and its usefulness is not appreciated in a larger world seduced into mental illness by and of Digital madness.
@@ellerybice3787the portable internet of today is a tool for democracy, especially when totalitarian forces dominate broadcast media.
What arr you talking about? @@ellerybice3787
Democracy is not freedom
I use campy 10 with friction shifters. Campy has loose springs so plays nice with the d ring on shifter. Friction is the vibes…🖤
Love it ! I think we're going to see a lot more of this sort of thing. Modern bikes are ridiculously over-complicated.
I have DT shifters on my Surly Cross Checkset up for general riding, utility and touring. With both shifters set to friction mode, it is easy to get perfect shifting with a bit of experience and they can be adjusted for silent pedalling. Any stretch in the cables can be adjusted out to maintain silence.
Tuned in because I still ride the downtube shifter Bridgestone RB-2 that I bought in 1994. Fascinating video, loved learning about all the minute details.
Personally, I HATE how modern brifters wobble/accidentally shift as im grabbing a hand full of brake in any given situation. They need stronger resistance springs or just less free play. Until then, DT shifters are king
I've used downtube shifters on my winter bikes for years. I case you crash on a slippery road you don't ruin expensive STI type shifters. Years ago i build an MTB with Paul Thumbies and downtube 9 speed shifters when everyone else was on 8 speed because there were no MTB 9 speed groups.
Very nice. I grew up as a kid first getting into cycling in the 70's so this is evocative of the period in a wonderful way. I love that classic groupset with the drillings but SRAM mechs as a twist. (Remember the black anodized Zeus drilled cranksets?- a fav of mine back in the day.) My only thing is this frame color... there are probably 500 other colors/schemes I'd like better than that one, but to each their own -- it's still a very cool and unique build with that interesting frame! I do say that the frame color somehow works better with the tire color, bar tape and brown saddle combo.
The frame geometry looks sort of classic touring, or am I incorrect?
It's a mix of classic fit and modern front end geo. A bit slacker front end for better handling for long distance. It's isn't low trail, so it likes to be minimally loaded. It's the smoothest road bike I've ridden in years. You can find the geo chart on the product webpage in the description: velo-orange.com/products/rando-frameset
For my newly build steel road bike, I chose Shimano’s 8-speed index down tube shifters, I just love their light weight and simplicity! And the index system is very handy and practical too.
Ooo I was looking at those. I've used the 10sp Dura-Ace in the past, but they're rare/crazy $$ nowadays. Good review all-in-all for them?
@@velo_orange Absolutely!
@rollinrat4850 that’s a speak of experience👍
@@JackY-pu5nhI have the same shifter. It's a Shimano SL-R400 down tube shifter or a Shimano claris DT shifter. I have it paired to the claris long cage rear derailleur but have used it with the suntour r80 and it works great with both. I've had it for a little over a year and a half now and I've noticed some wear on the shifter and it doesn't shift as well as when it was new but still works pretty damn well
@@velo_orangeit's a bummer you can't fit a rear rack onto the rando frame. I would buy this frameset today if you could. I'm running a State Bike Co 4130 Road frame and even though it's very strong and solid, it's a compact frame with super aggressive geometry and isn't really conducive to the type of riding I do (bike packing, endurance and gravel). The rando checks all the boxes I'm looking for except you can't put a rack on it. Pretty hard to find frames like this these days that use side pull caliber brakes, standard QR axles and relaxed geometry
When you get used to friction shifters they are great,easy to use and satisfying finding the sweet spot.
Your reasons for friction shifters are spot on. My old Suntour ratcheting shifters keep doing their job, through changes in bike, gears, and chain rings. And now I have a new Shimano bottom-line derailer - and it all works together, smooth as glass.
Where I live most people ride 70-80s road bikes around town due to the theft risk - nearly all with downtube shifters and this doesn't seem to pose any issue. As you say, simple and effective. I'm not going to say I don't like integrated brake shifters either.
I had a bike with tube shiftings before. It´s simplicity is awesome, like this bike you´ve built. Good work!
The seamless motion of reaching down to shift with a featherlight touch is one of my guiltiest pleasures of riding. It is a downtube indexed shifter.
I still use mine. Cant beat em. Simple. And always work even when they dont.
The frame/fork and set up remind me of the Raleigh International I rode in the early 70s. It was an amazing long distance rider.
Awesome build! Brings back great memories of my builds in the 70s!.🥂
I have strong respect for restoration/building and if that includes a bygone shifting technology (and it works well) then I totally appreciate this direction.
Down Tube shifting is not my preference, but after reading other comments I have a better understanding of the pros and cons.
Great video, I especially liked the rim brake installation! That’s an old school tech I can get behind.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the kind words!
I like them because they are reliable and SILENT. I have a very quiet road bike I ride at night and I love hearing birds and things without the freewheel sizzle or hard clanking shifts.
Love that dropout option! Another hit from VO
Thank you!
My Schwinn super le tour has awesome downtube shifters I like the old school look on the bars no grip tape no brakes either
Gotta say really appreciate the low standover at smallest size. And the steel fork plus straight headtube. Someday!
Downtube shifters are great. I ride 9-10k miles a year and 2/3 of those miles are typically on a bike with downtube shifters. Super reliable and easy to use once mastered. I can even shift both levers simultaneously with one hand.
Way nice classic look...It's actually a utilitarian art piece .
Thinking of these for my soma Buena vista mixte set up for light gravel and bike packing
Great video, really enjoyed it. I do wish you would not have skipped adjusting the limit screws. That’s one thing a lot of home mechanics start with and it’s always worth seeing a pro do it.
Noted! We've done it in previous videos, but will be sure to include it in the future. The yaw derailleurs are definitely outside the norm for adjustments. It wouldn't be the first option now that I've done it. Going with a regular 105 or Sora would be better for this build.
@@velo_orange I like the front mech that swings differently, that you demonstrate.
It is ok. I think Nic ended up switching to a regular Campy or Shimano derailleur because he didn't like the yaw. If I did it again, I'd go with a Sora or 105 front derailleur for this setup.@@ThisTimeTheWorld
@@velo_orange 105 is great stuff. Sora looks good but I haven't tried it yet. I have a pair of 3x7 brifters I might use next year. I likenthe campy style thumb triggers
@rollinrat4850 campy is neat but stuck up and high dollar. One of the first things I learned about bikes was campy stuff is pretty much made to only work with other campy stuff. Italian bbs are weird, too.
I've had dt indexed shifters all my riding life, saved a lot of weight on the front end of the bike.
are they cast iron oversized lead plated shifters ?
@@generalruler Shimano 105's .
Love my down tube shifters. 650b swapped an 80's race bike to fit 42mm slicks and 9 speed cassette. It's a fantastic bike for mixed terrain. Though really, I just clicked on the video to find out who makes the brown shifter covers... I think VO needs to source a new run of these. I need them for the barcons on my latest build!
Nice! Rustines used to make them, but I no longer think they do. They stopped doing the bike stuff during the pandemic to focus on their industrial business.
@@velo_orange Yup, I did a quick search last night and found a few international shops that still had stock. Will have to check out shipping costs. Think there's a chance of talking Dia Compe into creating some molds?
@@velo_orange They are still on the Rustines site and available in 4 colors. Sadly they want 45 euros for shipping :(
Man, Id love one of these with a 650b wheelsetso I can squeeze in a slightly bigger tire.. I really like this.. Def could use something nice to cruise these FL streets..
At times I would bring & still ride either of my 2 orig Campy equip road bikes from the 70's.1) Legnano 2 ) Vincini & everytime I ride in NYC Central Park & there's tons of modern racing road bikes that I don't even know the names. the ones in modern ultra expensive ones would stares at me like I'm a UFO LOL / Dinasaur bike they're thinking? & the ones that knows what I'm riding vintage downshifters would give me a thump up! & that is all I ride - never owned a mid 80's up road bike yet but someday I will.
Beautiful bike.
Love the detailed explanation.
Thanks for the kind words!
I grew up with friction downtube shifters, and have them on most of my road bikes. (Two have non-indexed SunTour barcons, and the mountain bike has SunTour thumbies operating in non-indexed mode.
Great video as I’m almost ready to start building up my Pass Hunter frame after spending a few months acquiring some parts and pieces. Mostly VO with a smattering of parts bin stuff. Love the little tips. Enjoy your day.
Thanks for the kind words! We'd love to see the final build, so send over pics when it's done!
I plan on doing the Fl C2C ride this fall.
I bought the wrong size bars for my shimano bar end shifters
Will have to use the downtube shifters, and they work, a little overhaul and they are smooth and tight
just hate to hunch over every time I want to shift, and of course, I have to be there for a while as i slowly friction shift into perfect chain alignment
I used to ride 50 miles up to San Fransisco, and I remember by the time I got there my thumb was so sore from hanging off the top tube and my finger joints from pulling the levers
DTs are a great example of "Newer may be better in some ways, but older is also great." I'm building up an RB1 and I'm actually converting it to DTs even though it had non-original bar ends on it. The other thing too is: Early STIs weren't super great, so if you want to stay period correct but also have good performance, DTs are the way to go.
I have an 1988 RB2 with downtubes I ride all the time. Someone in the last 30 years put and old shimano 105 set on there.
"What's old is new again."
Used DS for many years and now Im trying to adapt to end bars shifters and keeping on hitting the front one with my knee , very annoying but the back one I really like it and I think I can get used to it my hand is down there most of the time anyways.
Beautiful stuff!
This reminds me of when Bridgstone wouldn't equip its mountain bikes with trigger shifters. Their rationale (Grant Peterson's, actually) was that most of their riders were unsupported so if a shifter broke, they could always put it in friction mode and get home.
Nice! I love the all silver build and frame color.
I found friction DT shifter to be hard to keep in gear with modern cassettes and chains. The newer stuff is meant to mke shifting easy, with ramps and pins, which makes the chain switch too easy for DT shifter (when not shifting). I do love DT shifter and one of my bikes has Dura-Ace 9sp DT shifters with a cheap Shimano rear derailleur - it works wonderfully.
Interesting point. I feel like 10 speed (cassette) is the pinnacle of friction shifting. Cogs aren't too close together, but the range options and crankset compatibility is seemingly endless. And the derailleurs are so cheap and good.
@@velo_orange Same - i use the drillium crank in combination with the silver shifters and a 10 speed. Has been working flawlessly for years.
I had the same issue with newer cassette gearing as well, using both DuraAce bar ends and simplex retrofriction down tube shifters. I wonder if the larger 50mm pull on the VO shifters would give more precision? Years ago I always used ultra 7 freewheels for road but standard 6 speed for crits as it had more “room” for less precise shifts. So would an 11 or 12 speed chain lesson the chance of auto shift with 10 speeds?
@@leepin_lemur I don't think an 11sp chain would fit on a 10sp cassette. So I don't think it would help tremendously. I think auto shifting is a consequence of frame flex, too. But that's more in the front.
My bike would ghost shift when I stood up for more power. I think the frame flex would cause the cable tension to change in the slightest amount, and the chain would get close enough to the cog ramps to cause it to change gears. Now I didn't try every type of chain or cassettes.
My three most used bikes have downtube shifters. The only issue is reach from the bars if you have a very large frame (though you probably have very long arms, too!), and the same distance issue if you run 26" wheels. On the plus side, if you have a small frame like my wife's 19" with a short stem, DT levers are practically at hand. Also seen top tube and head tube levers on custom frames, and anyone remember Suntour twin levers mounted on a pip on top of the downtube, c1982?
Beautiful and elegant bicycle.
Thanks!
Love my downtube shifters!
Loving the dishing tool holder.
My no fuss just ride for fun/parts bike/make me stronger bike is a steel Lotus Excelle, rocking drop tube non indexed shifters. Makes it easy to switch gearing in the rear from 7 all the way to 11 speed. Just a little adjustment to the derailleur.
I replaced the low bar with a flat bar and installed mountain bike brake/rapid fire shifters. A lot better for the
city with a lot of traffic.
Mesmerizing to watch, incredible presentation. I learned a lot, thanks.
My SIS Dura-Ace 7400 on my vintage Tomassini is still freakishly smooth.
Those are the best! Hard to find without spending big $$ nowadays.
You should have painted the insides of the drillium holes with yellow paint for that authentic drillium look.
I might have the most downtube shifter content on UA-cam, and when I go STI shifting, I just wind up coming back to downtube shifters. There’s nothing like it and feels so pure to riding. Plus it’s cheap and easy to work on! That’s just a set in stone fact!
Was searching quite a bit recently for a new steel frame with modern spacing but for rim brakes. There's only a few available these days. I was less keen to spend the amount required to get a Rando, but it was eventually the best option. Looking forward to receiving and building it up. This will be my first time owning a modern frame, so I'm really curious to see how it feels to wrench on.
Great video. If not the best for how to build most beautiful bicycle!
Looks like a piece of Art!! 🤩🤩
Went to Velo Base.
Lacking….
Nothing about Trecia, Walt Matthauser hydraulic brakes, Robert Barrett Side Bi-Valent style tear hub. Important items to me.
I love how absolutely obscure those things are.
I love my downtube shifters!! Both my bikes have them!
nice build - thanks for sharing
I’d love to put these 11 speed capable DT shifters on my latest build, but they haven’t been in stock for a while. Any idea when they might be available again?
That cassette looks like 11-34, judging by the jumps between small cogs..
It's an 11-32. I don't have an 11-34 on hand.
Great looking bike.
A pity about the paint chips on the frame at the hanger. Anyway, no grease or thread lock on those bolts on the hanger? I would perhaps have done things differently. Nice build.
Good video, however I can't help thinking how great this bike would look with a 1" threaded fork and a Cinelli stem and bar. Also, quill stems are so much more easily height adjustable.
Beautiful build! Love everything about it.
Wow what a lovely build.. very nice :) subscribed.. Pete
Many thanks!
Love those dropouts
In my experience friction shifters work better with more gears.
It seems hard to find the right gear with a 5 speed freewheel.
When using friction shifters with an 8 speed cassette it's much easier and faster in shifting and fine tuning gear selection
Interesting take. I found my 6 speed uniglide cassette with Dura-Ace EX derailleurs to be an excellent friction shifting experience. That wheelset cracked, unfortunately, so now I'm running with a modern 8 speed wheelset + modern derailleurs and I'm finding that to be a great experience too. Just different.
That 70s Bike Show
Thank you for putting a steel fork on a steel bike. Why do headset press fittings never get stuck and seatposts do? You need enough room between the preloader cap and the steerer tube so they do not contact. An additional spacer above the stem can solve the problem. GREASE! you can slide the crank arm too far up the taper of the BB spindle. You greased the tapers but not the crank arm bolts (?). Thank you for greasing the dust caps (so they will not get stuck). Even plastic dust caps get stuck. I once measured a Richard Sachs and the BB had 80mm of drop, yours is 68mm. Can water bottle cage bolts get stuck over time? really long seat posts will rub against the inside of the seat tube. They can creek. We have cut them shorter (120 mm insertion) to eliminate that annoying sound.
With the availability of HUGE rear cogs today.... I'd probably use 1 chainring 38 tooth ish
Is it wrong that I'm planning a dropbar 29x2.6 frameset with a vintage French, left downtube shifter ?😊
Downtube shifters are great for guys* who used to ride single speed and fixed in the 00's and still want to stand out from the crowd today despite their worn out knee cartilage.
*tbh I'm one of those guys
When you lost indexed shifter and not get compatible, the friction shifter work with all.
Nifty dropout arrangement!
Thanks!
Nice built and nice parts!
Did all my racing in the 70s and 80s on downtube shifters either friction or later indexed the only real downside was you couldn’t change gear going uphill out of the saddle
Campy SR or Simplex?
Campag
Im curious What is the most important part / function in bycicles in gerneral ??😂
Nice video and thanks!
Really excellent frame. Much like my 2010 Salsa Casseroll
I don't need a front deraileur or it's shift lever. I can move the chain from either cahinwhell to the other one.
I've tried foot shifting, but it's too risky to drop a chain
Beautiful!
Enjoyed the video. Bike looks great. Hopefully your friend had a good cross-state ride on it?
He already got the bike and is loving it! Check out Nic on IG to follow along when he does the ride: instagram.com/morajez/
Very nice. Couple of comments: Those Sram derailleurs are a bit ugly, Campagnolo would be my choice. Bit surprised you didn't use a torque wrench for tightening the BB cups, crank bolts and cassette lock ring.
My original build did have Campagnolo! velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/lets-talk-rando-builds
In my years in the industry, I only use torque wrenches on carbon bits. Just a lot of experience and a carefully calibrated elbow.
I have a 20+ yr old Giant RB with shifters on the headset...love the simplicity.
Ye gods, man - secure that vice! That wobble is woeful.
The Shifting? Was this the idea of the now auto CVT transmission?
Can you fit a rear rack on the rando frame??