As a prospective buyer of the new Ford Maverick hybrid truck I've been trying to educate myself about the hybrid powertrain. This video has been the most helpful I've seen with regard to shedding light on the eCVT. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Should be required viewing for anyone considering a Ford Hybrid.
Ditto Jim, I have the same comments as you for the professor. I would like to know as much as I can about the eCVT transaxle used in the 2022 Maverick. 👍
@@dennisporter753 Now that I know it is Aisin built you should have a damn good truck on your hands. Hopefully the new motor will have no issues as well since it will be NA Atkinson cycle as well (low stress vs the garbage turbo motors)
I hear you. And I'm liking this hybrid stuff. Guess I've been in a cave. Good to know there's 15 years of history on this design. I really liking the maverick.
Enormous amount of prep. Everything is very clean and labeled as required for teaching. Professor Kelly, like all great teachers, makes everything so "simple."
John is Awesome! 35 years as a A&P i have to know how everything works. John has an amazing ability to simplify anything, to a level anyone can understand.
Thank you for making this! I have a 2013 C-Max Hybrid, and in the entire time I've owned it I've never been able to find anything showing the actual internals of the transmission, just diagrams describing it's operation (which also severely misrepresented the internal layout, for example showing the traction motor being directly inline with the output shaft, when it isn't). This was immensely helpful, I'm looking forward to the Voltec teardown. :) Keep up the good work!
@@RobertBeedle So far so good! I've read that some of the early C-Max & Fusion Hybrid transmissions have an issue where the bearing for the main transfer gear wears out prematurely due to inadequate quality control, but I haven't had any of the symptoms of that yet, and probably won't (IIRC it usually occurred in taxis and other heavily urban driven cars at >100k miles, and that's not the type of driving I do, nor am I at that kind of mileage yet).
@@cyrenecai I hadn’t seen your response tell now. Glad it is holding strong! Sound like you can drive it for a long while yet. I recommend looking at the Ford Maverick Hybrid down the road. Ford is really killing it lately with their new options.
The first-gen Ford hybrids did have an EV mode, but (at least on mine) didn't have an EV mode selection switch, so you couldn't just pop it into EV mode and keep it there. You could only engage EV mode through a combination of low speed (
Hello John and thank you for the very extensive video. At about 5:50 you said, 'This 1st generation hybrid Escape did not have an electric vehicle mode; the engine always had to be running, except for idle stop...' Please note that the 1st generation FEH (Ford Escape Hybrid) does have EV mode, though there isn't an EV mode button as in a Prius. In EV the 1st gen FEH can accelerate (engine remaining off) and can drive in EV mode. I believe I've read that the 1st gen FEH limit for EV is 40mph. My wife and I own a 2006 Escape Hybrid and on many occasions I've accelerated/driven over 30mph in EV. Hope this helps. [Edit: typo]
This would be normal hybrid operation. For city driving it is possible to operate exclusively on the electric motors provided that you don't reach the speed at which the gas engine is started. In a true EV mode however, the gas engine is never started during normal driving - dead battery and 85+ mph is not considered normal driving. You need to get in a vehicle that has an actual EV mode selection and learn the difference between hybrid and EV. I sense that you believe "other" hybrids (without EV mode) run the ICE all the time or whenever the wheels rotate.
You say "true EV mode" is where "the gas engine is never started during normal driving" but that is not how hybrid vehicles like the Ford Escape Hybrid and the Prius function. Such hybrids have specific parameters programmed that dictate when the vehicle can run in EV mode and when the ICE (internal combustion engine) runs. One example is that when driving in EV mode the battery will be discharging and in our 2006 Escape Hybrid when the battery SoC (State of Charge) drops to 40%, the ICE comes on to charge the battery regardless of how slowly one is driving. I have no idea what you're referring to about a dead battery or 85+ mph.
Thank you. Your explanations for hybrid trans-axles helps very much and keeps auto enthusiasts up to date with manufacturers mechanical and mechanical operations innovations and development technology.
Thanks, Professor. Just bought a 2019 Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid and it's interesting to see how this works. I'm fascinated by how few parts are involved. My unit is like the third generation unit you show in external appearance (outboard inverter/converter housing). Great stuff.
Professor Kelly, thank you so much for all these videos! They help a lot a guy with manuals background to enter the hybrid world. I wish I have an opportunity to meet you in the near future.
I have an 06 Escape. At 10 years, we burned out the transaxle, in concert with another transmission issue..I found a transmission specialist, who replaced with a junkyard transaxle, works great, eight years now. About 20% of the cost
Wonderful video! The first gen escape did have full EV mode. They actually drove quite a bit in EV around town. Now they did have an accessories belt type AC compressor so if you turn it to max AC the engine will not shut down since it's running the compressor.
That is very true. Newer hybrid Ford models use an electric A/C compressor powered by the same battery as the electric motor. Look in any new Ford hybrid engine bay and you see a small pair of orange cables going to the compressor which by its vestigial design is still attached to the engine block side as it was belt driven.Yet the gasoline engine has no belts or pulleys since all the powered accessories are electric.
Correct and more details are that the battery needed to be over 40% SOC and the engine water temp over 160F for EV mode and speed limited to ~30 mph depending on incline and acceleration. About 2-3 mile range.
Thanks for the aeesome detail. You're student's are so lucky to have such an expert, who can really break this down in a such clear and a comprehensive way. Thank you for what you do!!!
@@WeberAuto John, I might have missed this in your video, could you help me out? For the 3rd gen Ford trans, what is the number of teeth on the final drive (not final drive ratio) and also the teeth number of the top gear of the "transfer gears" that connects to the final drive. Thank you!
Hi John as someone commented that you didn’t comment on the low gear position of the selector on the Fusion. Prius calls it B for breaking I think that break pad to stop the generator motor may be activated by that selector position because the engine then is used to slow the vehicle down and no it’s not low gear ratio but the engine revs quite fast but is just used to drag the vehicle speed down. And on downhill assist when the batteries are fully charged on a long downhill the Fusion uses the engine to supply drag to prevent the car from speeding up on a steep hill. This is because it cannot use regenerative braking when the batteries are full charged. Anyway that’s my thoughts on the matter. Good show John I really learn lots from you, thanks very much!
Thanks for your feedback. The engine is used to provide drag, but not a running engine, but an engine that if off (no fuel supplied) and being rotated with the small motor to dissipate the extra energy created during deceleration.
great video I think on the 3rd gen you meant to say that it had an open differential not an open planetary. always enjoy your videos. they are very well thought out
I've seen the name Aisin before as the mfr of the automatic transmission on the XJ Jeep Cherokee but never heard aloud... I'm going to consider your pronunciation the authority on this matter. Great videos!
John thank you for your informative video. I was in the carhaul business when these came out and Ford was one of our customers. when ever a new model comes out the mfg. sends out bulletins to the carriers how to haul them as to tie down ,trans , position etc. Ford said these would be shipped with the electric sid disconnected ,only the gas engine would be used. First problem, there is no reverse without the electrics turned on and so if you drive one on the transport you have to back it off. If you back it on the transport you drive it off. for some reason the only way the vehicle will go in reverse is the electric traction motor has to turn backwards. Toyota had the same issues . Now I know why. they were the same. thanks again.
These transmissions work great I have a 2014 fusion hybrid, I’ve had it since it was new and it’s got 238k on it and the only problems I’ve had is it needs shocks in the rear about ever 100k because of all the extra battery weight and crappy roads, and the secondary door for the fuel fill gets stuck open and doesn’t seal from time to time and causes a evap leak but just lube it up and poke it a bit with a stick problem solved. But it’s been great the first time I did brakes was at about 150k and it still didn’t need them quite yet and the only other week points are the bolts that hold the electric motor on the steering rack corrode and brake so replace them every few years there easy to get to, and ford did recall them but they’ll only do it once and there fix doesn’t last forever. There are a few things on the interior that have broken along with some creeks and squeaks but overall been a great car, I’ve got access to trucks suvs sports cars commercial trucks and motorcycles and the majority of the time the fusion is the go to, it just gets the job done and has never left anyone stranded.
Highly informative; I was looking for the HF35 transaxle online and found nothing; the Toyota HSD powertrains have much more info online than Ford's versions. Backtracking a year ago I remembered asking you about the EV operation of the Prius P410 vs. the Fusion HF35 in regards to EV operation speed range. Watching this now, seeing how high the ratio is between the Traction motor (or MG2 in Toyota-speak) of the HF35 is over the P410 gives me the impression the Ford motors are capable of much higher rpms & without the limiting factor of over speeding the smaller Generator/starter (MG1) unit. I also find it ever so humorous the P610 actually took Toyota (often regarded as the leader in hybrids) to take a page out from Ford's playbook for the Prius IV. Even more interesting is how the upcoming Prius Prime with probably a similar transaxle setup will put in the one-way clutch on the engine to allow for dual MG1+MG2 combined EV operation similar to the Volt's 4ET50 but using this PSD setup. That would be a cool video in the future.
As an historical fact, Ford and Toyota share many of the hybrid ideas and patents, since Ford saw that most of its ideas were similar to Toyota patents when the Escape Hybrid was under design. They are still sharing ideas.
Hello Professor Kelly would this transaxle be the same or similar to the latest Ford Escape Hybrid ? .... thanks for posting these wonderfully interesting videos.
These videos are a fantastic resource. The Ford HD10 could run without spinning the ICE up to road speeds of approximately 40 MPH. However, I was only able to achieve this when traveling downhill as it seems the electric motors didn't have enough torque at those speeds to keep the vehicle accelerating. Ford often quoted a top EV mode speed of "25 MPH" which is probably due to the limited torque available.
That sounds very Prius-like, anecdotally the gen-3 Prius will usually start the ICE around 43mph regardless of torque needs, maybe up to 45 under some conditions I haven't narrowed down. I presume that's the MG2 overspeed limit.
Many thanks for this presentation. I've found a couple of interesting facts on the HF35 in the Energi plugin cars. The traction motor has an 88kW rating, but the 7.5kWh traction battery has a 200A discharge limit, so only about 60kW is available in EV mode. Also, if accelerating from a stop at WOT in charge depletion hybrid mode, the traction motor's power ramps up very slowly, not reaching its full 60kW output until nearly 60mph. I can't think of a good reason they would limit that traction motor output at lower speeds with the engine running, unless they are trying to limit torque on the differential or axle shafts. Too bad, it could have been pretty quick.
From official Ford literature (of what little there is) for the 2017~ the HF35 in the Energi cars are limited to a maximum discharge of 68 kW of power in EV mode. So the Traction motor 88 kW cannot be deployed unless the 2.0L engine is on and supplying power via the Starter Generator (e.g. MG1). Not sure if the earlier 2013-2016 cars had the same output however.
Outstanding video Professor John. I have just bought a 2014 Lincoln MKZ 2.0L FWD Hybrid with The Hf-35 xCVT trans and it is leaking out about 3qt, but the car drives great. Because of the leak the Transfer-shaft assembly (EG9Z-7H348-A) bearing and cup should be shot, but those parts only cost US $410 right now. Is it possible to put a rebuilt used HF35 eCVT or even a newer Ford 2017-up HF45 eCVT and not have to reprogram the power transfer unit? The only cable that comes out of both trans are the hi-voltage drive/regen motors and the low-voltage data cables (that reads both motors temp and speeds). From what I have read; the HF35 has no brain or need for VIN programming itself. I ask because my locale Lincoln Dealer just quoted me US $10,000+ to replace the HF35, recalibrate the Lane-departure system, and realign the wheels. Since I was not born yesterday and value my family's treasure, I figured I would ask an expert. The car is beautiful and still drives it just need seals and bearings but no trans shop in or near Chicago will touch these eCVTs due to Ford's EV service equipment requirments (an anti-static bay). I have removed FWD trans and replace clutches before and I am thinking of removing and rebuilding my own trans because of inflated dealer costs. Any help you can provide would be much appreciated "for eductional info only... lol". Thank you for your time, sir. BTW: Can you do a trans removal video on the HF35 and HF45? That would be amazing.
Do you explain on any video how the CVT transmission works? I have a 2008 Ford escape hybrid with CVT and I have a 2014 Nissan Pathfinder SL with CVT transmission. The Pathfinder tranny died this last year and after $5,000, we have a nice car again. But I'm told the Ford escape has a better tranny. So are there different qualities of CVT transmission? Because after our Nissan issue, I've been scared of them.
I have been considering a Ford Fusion plug in hybrid because of the easily serviceable big battery and really appreciate knowing how it all works. I was pleasantly surprised that the system does not have the "belt" even though it is called a CVT.
I would like to know who the 18 haters are LOL? Did the poor guy not come out and fix your car or something? Awesome video must see for anyone whom is planning on working on this stuff and trying to understand how it works. Again thanks for sharing the info
Thank you for these super informative videos. Wish italian professors could be as professional as you. For the P610/Prius IV transaxle operation: from regular users with an OBD app, it looks like the logic is the same as Gen3 Prius/P410/P510. Ratios are different, it stays in EV at much higher speeds(100+kmh/60+mph), but the stages are the same
I love this video. Thanks for your knowledge. We picked up a 2008 Ford escape hybrid a few months ago and I wondered how this technology worked. Usually when the car has run for a little while and charge the battery, then when I get to lower speeds and to a stop, the engine shuts off and I can run on EV mode from about 20 mph to 26 or even 28 mph if I'm gentle on the pedal. The electric motor also assists the gas motor while driving and at other times it charges the battery.
All these videos have been amazing, Prof Kelly. While I don’t have “too much” difficulty understanding the gears, sprague clutches, dual motor/generators, the “magic” that’s beyond me is the HOW of the inverter-converters. Hmmmm. . . the gears of the Toyota units are cut opposite to the Ford units. , .
An excellent presentation professor. I have a 2nd generation in a 2011 Lincoln MKZ. I've read in the Fusion forum that there have been some issue's or failures with the 3rd generation. Would you have any insight on that? Thanks, Don
Lots of great information and it was presented so well, I could understand pretty much how it all works without even being mechanically inclined myself! Question, though, do you know if the 2016 RAV4 Hybrid is based on the P610 or is it more closely related to Toyota's third generation hybrid transaxle? It'd be neat to see a tear down of the rear transaxle (MGR) as well on the RAV4 hybrid to see how that works compared to the front transaxle with the ICE, MG1, and MG2 drive setup. Keep up the great work! I've learned way more about how hybrid transaxles work watching your videos than anywhere else I've found in my researched so far! We bought the 2016 RAV4 Hybrid a month ago and really enjoy driving it. It's neat knowing exactly what's going on under the hood when I'm watching the power monitor.
Thank you! the RAV4 Hybrid uses the P314 transaxle, just like the 2013 and newer Avalon hybrids and Camry hybrids. It is more like the 3rd generation transaxles. I have an MGR and will be doing a video on it's operation in the next month. Thanks for the feedback!
I've been doing some evaluation with the Pacifica, and trying to figure out how the engine can charge the generator while the van is stopped and in gear vs when the vehicle is in motion and the engine is driving the wheels. this helps illustrate it a bit better but still trying to figure out how the engine can separately turn the generator, the generator can separately turn the wheels, and the wheels can separately turn the generator with the engine off. I read a little bit about it in the press releases and it sounds like it's set up pretty much identical to that third gen.
I have seen inside a Pacifica Hybrid SI-EVT transaxle, it is almost identical to the 1st generation Ford Escape hybrid transaxle I showed in this video. It also has a one way clutch sprag on the generator to the Generator Motor A. The only major differences between the 1st generation Ford and the Chrysler SI-EVT are: 1. The SI-EVT has an electric oil pump for use when the vehicle is stopped. 2. The SI-EVT uses a torque limiting clutch pack after the input shaft rather than before it (Like the Ford and Toyota Hybrids). I hope that helps.
That makes a little more sense From my understanding while driving it, since it does not appear to have CVT belt and pulleys based on the video above, the engine can turn at a constant RPM and still turn the wheels faster based on how much the planetary gears are allowed to rotate. Is that correct or do I have it wrong? I've noticed on the highway the electric motor indicator always reads power vs charge, so I am guessing the engine is constantly turning the generator while cruising (while also providing some power to the wheels) and the power generated continuously powers the output-only motor. No matter how hard you step on the accelerator, the engine RPM sounds linear all the way up to highway speed.
Yes, The large motor (Motor B) always directly propels the vehicle on electric power from the battery, the engine-driven generator, or a combination of both. During acceleration, torque from the engine can assist motor B in propelling the vehicle. The amount of engine torque delivered to assist motor be is controlled by the rotational speed of motor A. During steady cruising, the engine turns Motor A as a generator to supply power to motor B as needed. During EV mode, both motors A and B can propel the vehicle since there is a one way clutch that will prevent the engine from rotating with motor A assisting motor B without the engine. Cool stuff! Have a great day.
that is awesome! I think that clarifies how it works much better. So if motor A (generator) is allowed to turn faster, more engine torque will go to turning the generator than to the final drive, and then as you said, the one way clutch completely separates the engine for full ev mode
I have to correct one thing he said in this video. He said that in the first generation eCVT that the engine had to be running for the vehicle to move. I owned a 2005 Escape hybrid. I could drive up to 30 MPH on electric mode only under a light load on flat or downgrades. The engine engaged under a moderate load demand or if the HV battery needed charging. This was limited to a distance of about 2-3 miles. I own a '13 Fusion hybrid and it runs a LOT farther.
Thanks John. Will you get a P610 to pull apart? The 2016 Prius is a small unit as well. I'm told they've used different materials to downsize. Something carbide I think! I'm a long time subscriber and I've learnt a great deal from you, better info than factory training here in the U.K. I thank you again.
Thank you! I hope to get a P610, but my sources are from salvage yards. I need someone to wreck their car first. I am not aware of any special materials in the P610 (compared to previous models). I believe the downsizing comes from the parallel axis motors. Thanks for your feedback!
Sorry John, I missed a word! I meant the inverter is downsized. It is a lot smaller and sits a little lower in the engine bay too. They had a transaxle on a stand on the model training but not one to strip! If I could fit it in my pocket I'd mail it to you!
Hi John. I'm puzzled. I have a 13 Fusion hybrid, (the regular one, not the plug-in type). I don't see any facility in your demonstration that accounts for low gear. I don't know if you've driven one or not, but in low gear it feels like any other automatic transmission. Engine seems to be mechanically connected to the axle (through the torque converter). Substantial power and a strong hold-back on a steep downgrade. Also the engine comes on with moderate acceleration and it acts just like a CVT. On a heavy acceleration both the electric motor and engine are putting out power but the engine speed is pretty much level as the car's speed picks up. That acts like a CVT. Also if the downgrade assist is on, going down a steep grade at highway speed the engine starts to hold the speed down. When that engine winds up it sounds like "60mph in low gear". Ford says that's normal. So the big question is, is there more to that electro-mechanical gear case than what you showed, or is there some magic going on? Thank you!
There is no low "gear" on these transmissions. It just feels that way because of the way the control the combined engine and transmission operation. Thanks for your feedback!
It's primarily the Aisin design. Aisin approached Toyota in the 90's and they weren't interested. They then approached other manufacturers and it was Ford that first partnered with them, even though it was Toyota that got their vehicle to market first.
So, is this the entire unit? Is the "shifting" all taking place here within the small planetary gearset and such? Is it correct to say the "belt" in a traditional CVT would be "in here" if this unit had a belt?
In a sense, yes. An eCVT is really only described as a CVT because it allows for effectively variable gear ratios, but the mechanics don't work exactly the same as a traditional belt-driven CVT. These mainly use the electric motors to vary the effective gear ratio (I say effective because the actual gear ratio in the transmission doesn't really exist because the engine is never solely driving the wheels).
Thanks for the video. One thing I'm not sure about is how the gear ratio between the engine and final drive is altered. Is this done by controlling the speed of the starter/generator by controlling current draw?
Yes, there are two torque paths, one from the engine/generator combination, the other from the traction motor. The difference between engine rpm and generator rpm determines how much assist is offered to the traction motor to drive the final drive.
When the gasoline engine is used for propulsion, does it physically connect to the drive gears and provide mechanical power, or does it strictly spin the generator motor to supply more electric energy to the drive motor via the high voltage cables? In other words, does the gas engine ever physically connect to the wheels, or is it strictly another source of electric power such as the way a freight train operates?
Outstanding video! Thank you for the education. I’m going to check out the rest of the channel. Do you have a video on how the Ford hybrid engages / disengages the drive axle to the wheels? I have a 2022 Ford Escape hybrid that at times bangs when switching into drive and then is very loud moving forward… almost like something is not fully engaged or fully synchronized.
Hi John: my simple question is how or what generate other than the brakes the recharging? those the drive electric motor is used as a generator? What keeps the battery charged?
Hi, the small motor is the primary generator when the engine is running and keeps the battery charged. That is why the engine will start and stop over an extended idle period. The larger motor provides regenerative braking only when decelerating.
As always, great presentation, very well explained. Thank you for sharing. Looking forward to the Chevy Volt transmission video. Since all three transmissions look fairly similar, I wonder if Ford had to pay royalties for "borrowing" Aisin's design, even though their HF-35 is slightly different ?
Well Done! What are your thoughts on the transfer shaft bearing failures HF-35 TSB 14-0214? My 2013 Cmax hybrid (59k miles) is experiencing the rubbing/bad bearing sound especially when in electric mode, slow speeds and coasting. Has the root cause been determined? Has corrective actions actually been implemented? Pictures on the internet show where the assemble is actually rubbing the damper housing near the end of the bearing failure evolution, not good. Can I expect an engineered fix, or glorified parts replacement with similar MTBF? I know you are not Ford Inc. but I do respect your obvious mechanical expertise. Well done on the video!
Thank you! I do not know the exact cause of Ford HF-35 counter transfer shaft bearing failures, but in my opinion, I suspect the bearings were not properly preloaded upon initial assembly. When a bearing is preloaded, all of the shaft end-play is removed and the bearings and shaft are physically compressed by the transmission case halves. An exact amount of preload is required to keep the counter transfer shaft from tilting to one side or the other under a load (accelerating or decelerating). When a bearing preload is too low, the shaft will immediately tilt under a load and make noise (from gears rubbing on other gears with no clearance or backlash) from the time the transmission is new. This is not what appears to be happening with your transaxle. When a bearing preload is too high, the bearings will experience spalling, pieces will chip off, and eventually enough material chips off of the bearing to reduce the preload forces and actually create shaft end-play. Of course this will cause noise from gears rubbing on other gears with no clearance or backlash. This process takes a long time and sounds like what you are experiencing. If the failure is caught at this point, the transaxle could be repaired by replacing the counter transfer shaft and bearings and adjusting the preload to the proper level. This level of technical work is very difficult, time consuming, and requires a well-trained and experienced technician who actually cares about doing the repair correctly. The possibility of this happening under the current low paying warranty repair system in Ford dealerships is next to ZERO! There is no way I would let any technician repair my Ford HF-35 transaxle, I would insist on a replacement transmission. If the failure is not caught right away (continue driving while the transaxle makes noise) the bearing will continue deteriorating until the shaft tilts so much under a load that it actually starts rubbing on the transaxle case. There is no repair for this condition, so the entire transaxle will need to be replaced. From what I have read, this failure only occurred between certain model years before a change was made in the assembly plant to correct it. I am confident that a replacement transmission will be assembled correctly and your vehicle will last for many more years. I hope that helps, Best wishes!
WeberAuto Thank you sir for responding in such an informative and balanced manner. My 2013 CMax (59k) hybrid is returning to the selling Ford dealership on Tuesday (12/12/2017) to begin the transmission repair (hope not) or transmission replacement (hope so). Another reason I'm uncomfortable with a repair is that with the transmission fluid cooling the motor windings they have to be contaminated with fine metal particles. Some of these particles will not be aluminum but steel (gear, bearing roller, race) and can be magnetized. With the strong, rapidly fluctuating magnetic fields involved in a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD), the trapped particles will physically wiggle possibly wearing through the insulating varnish on the windings, leading to shorted windings. My favorite analysis tools for unknown failure, root cause determination, are; Kepner Tregoe for mechanical failures, Human Performance Evaluation System (HPES) for human error. HPES came from the Three Mile Island accident through INPO. I'm a retired power plant operations manager, Nuclear and Fossil Fuels. You sir are a gem! If you ever come around Nashville TN I would love to buy you a cup of coffee. Have a wonderful Holiday! Your videos are top notch!
Thank you, I am happy to be helpful. If the technician spots any metal flakes in the transmission fluid, according to the bulletin, the transmission will need to be replaced for the very reasons you stated. Let me know what happens with your CMax repair/replacement.
WeberAuto The biggest electric motors I've had experience with was a pair of 15,000 HP 6900 volt monsters. They were the drives for boiler feed pumps for a supercritical pressure boiler in Wausau WI. I'll update on the Cmax transmission saga, thanks for the help. The mechanics of your videos, views, audio, sequencing, component layout are excellent, nothing distracts from the presentation of information. While I am well past my schooling days I would have loved to have had a professor of your skills. Well Done Sir, well done!
Well, I got my 2013 Cmax back from the dealer with a new transmission at $0 cost, completely covered by warranty. I highly recommend every owner of the susceptible population of Cmax, Fusion, MKZ hybrids (HF-35) take their car to the dealer and have their transmissions evaluated. I had no idea how noisy my transmission had become until the noise was gone with the new trans. Hybrid components have an 8 yr 100k miles warranty. -TSB 17 0039- Dealer claimed new trans cost was $5k without labor. If you don't take your car in to dealer you could be facing a very expensive repair, take advantage of Ford's current warranty programs before it's too late even if you have high mileage. My 2013 Cmax had 59K miles, thanks for your sound advice. Total time 15 days, I did get a loaner vehicle from the dealer which minimized the inconvenience.
I didn't see on P610 Ford transmission vídeo any Continuos Variable Transmission (CVT). Does mean that this transaxle doesn't need to change relación gears to speed up output ?
The difference in the rotational speeds of the small motor and the engine make up an electronic CVT (eCVT). The eCVT then helps the large motor propel the vehicle down the road. Thanks for watching!
WeberAuto Thanks to you for these amazing videos, with them it is easy for normal pleople to understand hibrid transmissions. I'm interested on Toyota C-HR hibrid and I think it should mount P610. About eCVT , I will investigate where should be placed, as soon I thought planetary carrier was connected directly with engine crank shaft via fly wheel\engine clutch
I have a 2022 escape phev that I am looking to tow with. I am finding conflicting towing ratings between Ford escape phev(1500) lbs and Ford Kuga phev (3300)lbs. I do believe the Escape rating is considered unbraked and the Kuga rating is considered braked. The vehicles are the same as far as I can tell with the drivetrain. What would be the towing limiting factor in your opinion? Stator cooling? The owners manual also states not to tow in EV mode. Again the only factor I can think of is electric oil pump vs engine driven for cooling. Appreciate all of your videos, I'm learning a lot.
Question on the ECVT in a 2008 mariner. The shifter has a D and L range that doesnt seem to do much of anything. Does the eCTV actually have a low range?
I’m looking at electric transaxle options for a VW dune buggy conversion. The tried and true method is to bolt something like a Curtis AC-50 motor to the existing transmission but those motors are pretty expensive. Some things I’m unsure of with these more modern ev transaxles is how well they would run at lower battery voltage if they were from high voltage systems, if some are designed for more attainable battery voltage of 150-200 volts, and I’m confused by the hp ratings of the motors. I’ve seen the small rear electric transaxle for the Prius rated at 6hp but I’m unsure if that is electric hp or gas hp. The dune buggy I’m looking to build would be primarily used to get around the farm so range and top speed isn’t really an issue. I’d like something with good low end torque. I’d appreciate any advice.
Thanks for amazing videos. your explanation and a way you taking videos are so helpful. you mentioned that traction motor size is 88kW. so I wonder what size is generator motor. May I ask you the 3rd gen of ford hybrid's generator motor size?
Professor kelly Thank you for this presentation I want to ask that its correct that the 3rd generation HF35 have alot of problems and have a failure history? If yes how we can prevent the tras. From failure??
Where is the output transmission speed sensor located on a 2016 Ford Fusion Energi? I never see any videos on this here on UA-cam anywhere.Does it even have one?
Thank you professor for your work and your precise explanation. One question, on the Ford HF35, does the oil pump always turn and lubricate even with the heat engine off or does the oil need a heat engine to turn that also turns passively downhill? Thank's for your job
As a prospective buyer of the new Ford Maverick hybrid truck I've been trying to educate myself about the hybrid powertrain. This video has been the most helpful I've seen with regard to shedding light on the eCVT. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Should be required viewing for anyone considering a Ford Hybrid.
Ditto Jim, I have the same comments as you for the professor. I would like to know as much as I can about the eCVT transaxle used in the 2022 Maverick. 👍
@@jeffdee5 .. same here.. Great information so far on how eCVT transmissions work..
@@dennisporter753 Now that I know it is Aisin built you should have a damn good truck on your hands. Hopefully the new motor will have no issues as well since it will be NA Atkinson cycle as well (low stress vs the garbage turbo motors)
I hear you. And I'm liking this hybrid stuff. Guess I've been in a cave. Good to know there's 15 years of history on this design. I really liking the maverick.
@@paladain55 Ecoboost engines are far from garbage. They're actually quite solid, especially newer Ecoboost engines.
Enormous amount of prep. Everything is very clean and labeled as required for teaching. Professor Kelly, like all great teachers, makes everything so "simple."
Fantastic instructor and really appreciate the video😅
I love this guy's videos. He's a school professor and I have no doubt his students love him.
The most Perfect presentation. I feel like i am learning in Engineering class. Thank you professor.
John is Awesome! 35 years as a A&P i have to know how everything works. John has an amazing ability to simplify anything, to a level anyone can understand.
Thank you for making this! I have a 2013 C-Max Hybrid, and in the entire time I've owned it I've never been able to find anything showing the actual internals of the transmission, just diagrams describing it's operation (which also severely misrepresented the internal layout, for example showing the traction motor being directly inline with the output shaft, when it isn't). This was immensely helpful, I'm looking forward to the Voltec teardown. :)
Keep up the good work!
Thank you very much! I am glad it was helpful.
How has your transmission held up?
@@RobertBeedle So far so good! I've read that some of the early C-Max & Fusion Hybrid transmissions have an issue where the bearing for the main transfer gear wears out prematurely due to inadequate quality control, but I haven't had any of the symptoms of that yet, and probably won't (IIRC it usually occurred in taxis and other heavily urban driven cars at >100k miles, and that's not the type of driving I do, nor am I at that kind of mileage yet).
@@cyrenecai I hadn’t seen your response tell now. Glad it is holding strong! Sound like you can drive it for a long while yet. I recommend looking at the Ford Maverick Hybrid down the road. Ford is really killing it lately with their new options.
I am considering buying a 2013 C-Max Hybrid with 100k miles on the clock. The transmission issues have me a little bit worried. Any advice/insights?
The first-gen Ford hybrids did have an EV mode, but (at least on mine) didn't have an EV mode selection switch, so you couldn't just pop it into EV mode and keep it there. You could only engage EV mode through a combination of low speed (
Hello John and thank you for the very extensive video. At about 5:50 you said, 'This 1st generation hybrid Escape did not have an electric vehicle mode; the engine always had to be running, except for idle stop...' Please note that the 1st generation FEH (Ford Escape Hybrid) does have EV mode, though there isn't an EV mode button as in a Prius. In EV the 1st gen FEH can accelerate (engine remaining off) and can drive in EV mode. I believe I've read that the 1st gen FEH limit for EV is 40mph. My wife and I own a 2006 Escape Hybrid and on many occasions I've accelerated/driven over 30mph in EV. Hope this helps. [Edit: typo]
This would be normal hybrid operation. For city driving it is possible to operate exclusively on the electric motors provided that you don't reach the speed at which the gas engine is started. In a true EV mode however, the gas engine is never started during normal driving - dead battery and 85+ mph is not considered normal driving.
You need to get in a vehicle that has an actual EV mode selection and learn the difference between hybrid and EV. I sense that you believe "other" hybrids (without EV mode) run the ICE all the time or whenever the wheels rotate.
You say "true EV mode" is where "the gas engine is never started during normal driving" but that is not how hybrid vehicles like the Ford Escape Hybrid and the Prius function. Such hybrids have specific parameters programmed that dictate when the vehicle can run in EV mode and when the ICE (internal combustion engine) runs. One example is that when driving in EV mode the battery will be discharging and in our 2006 Escape Hybrid when the battery SoC (State of Charge) drops to 40%, the ICE comes on to charge the battery regardless of how slowly one is driving. I have no idea what you're referring to about a dead battery or 85+ mph.
Also whenever the AC compressor is required, as it is belt driven in these early models (1st gen Prius, too).
Thank you. Your explanations for hybrid trans-axles helps very much and keeps auto enthusiasts up to date with manufacturers mechanical and mechanical operations innovations and development technology.
Thank you!
Thanks, Professor. Just bought a 2019 Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid and it's interesting to see how this works. I'm fascinated by how few parts are involved. My unit is like the third generation unit you show in external appearance (outboard inverter/converter housing).
Great stuff.
Thank you very much
Imagine having this man at your engineering school - he would make it incredibly easy never to miss a lecture…..
Another great video from Weber Auto. Thanks for putting this together and sharing it.
Thank you!
Professor Kelly, thank you so much for all these videos! They help a lot a guy with manuals background to enter the hybrid world. I wish I have an opportunity to meet you in the near future.
Thank you very much!
Excellent presentation and well produced video. Your students are lucky to have such resources.
Thank you!
I have an 06 Escape. At 10 years, we burned out the transaxle, in concert with another transmission issue..I found a transmission specialist, who replaced with a junkyard transaxle, works great, eight years now. About 20% of the cost
As always, very informative and clear video. I'm still impressed of how these gearboxs seem to be well built.
Thank you!
Wonderful video! The first gen escape did have full EV mode. They actually drove quite a bit in EV around town. Now they did have an accessories belt type AC compressor so if you turn it to max AC the engine will not shut down since it's running the compressor.
That is very true. Newer hybrid Ford models use an electric A/C compressor powered by the same battery as the electric motor. Look in any new Ford hybrid engine bay and you see a small pair of orange cables going to the compressor which by its vestigial design is still attached to the engine block side as it was belt driven.Yet the gasoline engine has no belts or pulleys since all the powered accessories are electric.
Correct and more details are that the battery needed to be over 40% SOC and the engine water temp over 160F for EV mode and speed limited to ~30 mph depending on incline and acceleration. About 2-3 mile range.
Prius didn't get an electric compressor until 3rd gen so this checks out!
@@Trammael no the Prius got an electric compressor starting in the Gen2 2004 model year. I know, I’ve replaced one myself on a 2005.
Thanks for the aeesome detail. You're student's are so lucky to have such an expert, who can really break this down in a such clear and a comprehensive way. Thank you for what you do!!!
Thank you very much!
Nice informative video John!
Thank you!
Yes, a very educational video. Thank you for taking the time to put this together for us.
@@WeberAuto John, I might have missed this in your video, could you help me out? For the 3rd gen Ford trans, what is the number of teeth on the final drive (not final drive ratio) and also the teeth number of the top gear of the "transfer gears" that connects to the final drive. Thank you!
Hi John as someone commented that you didn’t comment on the low gear position of the selector on the Fusion. Prius calls it B for breaking I think that break pad to stop the generator motor may be activated by that selector position because the engine then is used to slow the vehicle down and no it’s not low gear ratio but the engine revs quite fast but is just used to drag the vehicle speed down. And on downhill assist when the batteries are fully charged on a long downhill the Fusion uses the engine to supply drag to prevent the car from speeding up on a steep hill. This is because it cannot use regenerative braking when the batteries are full charged. Anyway that’s my thoughts on the matter. Good show John I really learn lots from you, thanks very much!
Thanks for your feedback. The engine is used to provide drag, but not a running engine, but an engine that if off (no fuel supplied) and being rotated with the small motor to dissipate the extra energy created during deceleration.
John, y'all's videos are fantastic! Thanks!
Thank you!
Excellent stuff. I wish more people would know about how these systems work and not go on endlessly about rubber band cvts
Thank you!
Thank you so much for making this videos they helped me alot with the ASE test A2 and A3
Thank you!
great video I think on the 3rd gen you meant to say that it had an open differential not an open planetary. always enjoy your videos. they are very well thought out
Oops, yes, I meant open differential. Thanks for the feedback and kind words!
How does the engine start when the vehicle is rolling?
I've seen the name Aisin before as the mfr of the automatic transmission on the XJ Jeep Cherokee but never heard aloud... I'm going to consider your pronunciation the authority on this matter. Great videos!
Your presentations are really awesome thanks!
Thank you!
John thank you for your informative video. I was in the carhaul business when these came out and Ford was one of our customers. when ever a new model comes out the mfg. sends out bulletins to the carriers how to haul them as to tie down ,trans , position etc. Ford said these would be shipped with the electric sid disconnected ,only the gas engine would be used. First problem, there is no reverse without the electrics turned on and so if you drive one on the transport you have to back it off. If you back it on the transport you drive it off. for some reason the only way the vehicle will go in reverse is the electric traction motor has to turn backwards. Toyota had the same issues . Now I know why. they were the same. thanks again.
That is awesome! Thanks for the feedback!
Watching the video, I was wondering if reverse was electric-only - thanks for clearing that up!
Thanks, I have a 2015 C-Max Hybrid and have not been able to find this quality of demonstration of how the transmission works.
Thank you! I am glad it was helpful
These transmissions work great I have a 2014 fusion hybrid, I’ve had it since it was new and it’s got 238k on it and the only problems I’ve had is it needs shocks in the rear about ever 100k because of all the extra battery weight and crappy roads, and the secondary door for the fuel fill gets stuck open and doesn’t seal from time to time and causes a evap leak but just lube it up and poke it a bit with a stick problem solved. But it’s been great the first time I did brakes was at about 150k and it still didn’t need them quite yet and the only other week points are the bolts that hold the electric motor on the steering rack corrode and brake so replace them every few years there easy to get to, and ford did recall them but they’ll only do it once and there fix doesn’t last forever. There are a few things on the interior that have broken along with some creeks and squeaks but overall been a great car, I’ve got access to trucks suvs sports cars commercial trucks and motorcycles and the majority of the time the fusion is the go to, it just gets the job done and has never left anyone stranded.
I love those videos, i studying auto-mechanics and these videos are very informative, Thank you!
Thank you!
Highly informative; I was looking for the HF35 transaxle online and found nothing; the Toyota HSD powertrains have much more info online than Ford's versions.
Backtracking a year ago I remembered asking you about the EV operation of the Prius P410 vs. the Fusion HF35 in regards to EV operation speed range. Watching this now, seeing how high the ratio is between the Traction motor (or MG2 in Toyota-speak) of the HF35 is over the P410 gives me the impression the Ford motors are capable of much higher rpms & without the limiting factor of over speeding the smaller Generator/starter (MG1) unit.
I also find it ever so humorous the P610 actually took Toyota (often regarded as the leader in hybrids) to take a page out from Ford's playbook for the Prius IV. Even more interesting is how the upcoming Prius Prime with probably a similar transaxle setup will put in the one-way clutch on the engine to allow for dual MG1+MG2 combined EV operation similar to the Volt's 4ET50 but using this PSD setup. That would be a cool video in the future.
As an historical fact, Ford and Toyota share many of the hybrid ideas and patents, since Ford saw that most of its ideas were similar to Toyota patents when the Escape Hybrid was under design. They are still sharing ideas.
Very cool. Thanks for explaining these hybrid drives!
Thank you!
Hello Professor Kelly would this transaxle be the same or similar to the latest Ford Escape Hybrid ? .... thanks for posting these wonderfully interesting videos.
Thanks for the suggestion. I am looking for one.
21:55 this is also us in FORD KUGA (escape) PHEV?
These videos are a fantastic resource. The Ford HD10 could run without spinning the ICE up to road speeds of approximately 40 MPH. However, I was only able to achieve this when traveling downhill as it seems the electric motors didn't have enough torque at those speeds to keep the vehicle accelerating. Ford often quoted a top EV mode speed of "25 MPH" which is probably due to the limited torque available.
Thanks for your feedback. I got that part wrong.
That sounds very Prius-like, anecdotally the gen-3 Prius will usually start the ICE around 43mph regardless of torque needs, maybe up to 45 under some conditions I haven't narrowed down. I presume that's the MG2 overspeed limit.
Thanks for this it help us techs understand operation better
You are welcome!
Another fantastic and informative video. Thank you very much.
Thank you!
Thanks a lot, sir! I always enjoy your videos and the level of your explanation! Keep it up! :)
Thank you!
Phenomenal. I knew this channel would have this video.
You the best thanks for this hard work and show us this hybrid system
Many thanks for this presentation. I've found a couple of interesting facts on the HF35 in the Energi plugin cars. The traction motor has an 88kW rating, but the 7.5kWh traction battery has a 200A discharge limit, so only about 60kW is available in EV mode.
Also, if accelerating from a stop at WOT in charge depletion hybrid mode, the traction motor's power ramps up very slowly, not reaching its full 60kW output until nearly 60mph. I can't think of a good reason they would limit that traction motor output at lower speeds with the engine running, unless they are trying to limit torque on the differential or axle shafts. Too bad, it could have been pretty quick.
Thanks for your feedback, great information! I wish I knew the answer myself. Finding information on this transaxle is almost impossible.
They also needed to make sure it was slower than the 2.0 ecoboost
From official Ford literature (of what little there is) for the 2017~ the HF35 in the Energi cars are limited to a maximum discharge of 68 kW of power in EV mode. So the Traction motor 88 kW cannot be deployed unless the 2.0L engine is on and supplying power via the Starter Generator (e.g. MG1). Not sure if the earlier 2013-2016 cars had the same output however.
Outstanding video Professor John. I have just bought a 2014 Lincoln MKZ 2.0L FWD Hybrid with The Hf-35 xCVT trans and it is leaking out about 3qt, but the car drives great. Because of the leak the Transfer-shaft assembly (EG9Z-7H348-A) bearing and cup should be shot, but those parts only cost US $410 right now. Is it possible to put a rebuilt used HF35 eCVT or even a newer Ford 2017-up HF45 eCVT and not have to reprogram the power transfer unit? The only cable that comes out of both trans are the hi-voltage drive/regen motors and the low-voltage data cables (that reads both motors temp and speeds). From what I have read; the HF35 has no brain or need for VIN programming itself. I ask because my locale Lincoln Dealer just quoted me US $10,000+ to replace the HF35, recalibrate the Lane-departure system, and realign the wheels. Since I was not born yesterday and value my family's treasure, I figured I would ask an expert. The car is beautiful and still drives it just need seals and bearings but no trans shop in or near Chicago will touch these eCVTs due to Ford's EV service equipment requirments (an anti-static bay). I have removed FWD trans and replace clutches before and I am thinking of removing and rebuilding my own trans because of inflated dealer costs. Any help you can provide would be much appreciated "for eductional info only... lol". Thank you for your time, sir.
BTW: Can you do a trans removal video on the HF35 and HF45? That would be amazing.
thank you for explaining this in detail
Thank you always interesting informative presentation. I feel your positive approach to teaching learning can be applied to all parts of our lives .
Great video and layout. Thanks for posting.
Thank you!
Do you explain on any video how the CVT transmission works? I have a 2008 Ford escape hybrid with CVT and I have a 2014 Nissan Pathfinder SL with CVT transmission. The Pathfinder tranny died this last year and after $5,000, we have a nice car again. But I'm told the Ford escape has a better tranny. So are there different qualities of CVT transmission? Because after our Nissan issue, I've been scared of them.
Very simple and clear explication
I have been considering a Ford Fusion plug in hybrid because of the easily serviceable big battery and really appreciate knowing how it all works. I was pleasantly surprised that the system does not have the "belt" even though it is called a CVT.
Very informative! Thanks John for the presentation.
Thank you!
Wonderfully informative video. Thanks a lot, Professor!
Thank you!
Great vid thanks for posting love learning via your lectures...
I would like to know who the 18 haters are LOL? Did the poor guy not come out and fix your car or something? Awesome video must see for anyone whom is planning on working on this stuff and trying to understand how it works. Again thanks for sharing the info
LOL! Good question! Thanks for watching
5:50 The first generation Escape hybrid did in fact have an EV mode. It could go up to 30 MPH on electric motor alone.
Yes, thanks, I was wrong about that
Thank you for these super informative videos. Wish italian professors could be as professional as you.
For the P610/Prius IV transaxle operation: from regular users with an OBD app, it looks like the logic is the same as Gen3 Prius/P410/P510. Ratios are different, it stays in EV at much higher speeds(100+kmh/60+mph), but the stages are the same
Thank you! You are correct, it looks like the same logic.
fantastic presentation,
Thank you!
I love this video. Thanks for your knowledge. We picked up a 2008 Ford escape hybrid a few months ago and I wondered how this technology worked. Usually when the car has run for a little while and charge the battery, then when I get to lower speeds and to a stop, the engine shuts off and I can run on EV mode from about 20 mph to 26 or even 28 mph if I'm gentle on the pedal. The electric motor also assists the gas motor while driving and at other times it charges the battery.
All these videos have been amazing, Prof Kelly. While I don’t have “too much” difficulty understanding the gears, sprague clutches, dual motor/generators, the “magic” that’s beyond me is the HOW of the inverter-converters.
Hmmmm. . . the gears of the Toyota units are cut opposite to the Ford units. , .
An excellent presentation professor. I have a 2nd generation in a 2011 Lincoln MKZ. I've read in the Fusion forum that there have been some issue's or failures with the 3rd generation. Would you have any insight on that? Thanks, Don
Thank you. There were some bearing failures, but that has been addressed by Ford.
Thanks for taking the time to explain these. Does the ICE ever become direct drive with the drivetrain?
Thanks, you're too cool! Happy new year.
Thank you!
Lots of great information and it was presented so well, I could understand pretty much how it all works without even being mechanically inclined myself! Question, though, do you know if the 2016 RAV4 Hybrid is based on the P610 or is it more closely related to Toyota's third generation hybrid transaxle? It'd be neat to see a tear down of the rear transaxle (MGR) as well on the RAV4 hybrid to see how that works compared to the front transaxle with the ICE, MG1, and MG2 drive setup. Keep up the great work! I've learned way more about how hybrid transaxles work watching your videos than anywhere else I've found in my researched so far! We bought the 2016 RAV4 Hybrid a month ago and really enjoy driving it. It's neat knowing exactly what's going on under the hood when I'm watching the power monitor.
Thank you! the RAV4 Hybrid uses the P314 transaxle, just like the 2013 and newer Avalon hybrids and Camry hybrids. It is more like the 3rd generation transaxles. I have an MGR and will be doing a video on it's operation in the next month. Thanks for the feedback!
Thank you for you're time.How is the longevity of the design?.
Thank you! Very good longevity
I've been doing some evaluation with the Pacifica, and trying to figure out how the engine can charge the generator while the van is stopped and in gear vs when the vehicle is in motion and the engine is driving the wheels. this helps illustrate it a bit better but still trying to figure out how the engine can separately turn the generator, the generator can separately turn the wheels, and the wheels can separately turn the generator with the engine off. I read a little bit about it in the press releases and it sounds like it's set up pretty much identical to that third gen.
rides very smooth and linear too in all conditions mentioned above, these transmissions are very cool!
I have seen inside a Pacifica Hybrid SI-EVT transaxle, it is almost identical to the 1st generation Ford Escape hybrid transaxle I showed in this video. It also has a one way clutch sprag on the generator to the Generator Motor A. The only major differences between the 1st generation Ford and the Chrysler SI-EVT are: 1. The SI-EVT has an electric oil pump for use when the vehicle is stopped. 2. The SI-EVT uses a torque limiting clutch pack after the input shaft rather than before it (Like the Ford and Toyota Hybrids). I hope that helps.
That makes a little more sense
From my understanding while driving it, since it does not appear to have CVT belt and pulleys based on the video above, the engine can turn at a constant RPM and still turn the wheels faster based on how much the planetary gears are allowed to rotate. Is that correct or do I have it wrong? I've noticed on the highway the electric motor indicator always reads power vs charge, so I am guessing the engine is constantly turning the generator while cruising (while also providing some power to the wheels) and the power generated continuously powers the output-only motor. No matter how hard you step on the accelerator, the engine RPM sounds linear all the way up to highway speed.
Yes, The large motor (Motor B) always directly propels the vehicle on electric power from the battery, the engine-driven generator, or a combination of both. During acceleration, torque from the engine can assist motor B in propelling the vehicle. The amount of engine torque delivered to assist motor be is controlled by the rotational speed of motor A. During steady cruising, the engine turns Motor A as a generator to supply power to motor B as needed. During EV mode, both motors A and B can propel the vehicle since there is a one way clutch that will prevent the engine from rotating with motor A assisting motor B without the engine. Cool stuff! Have a great day.
that is awesome! I think that clarifies how it works much better. So if motor A (generator) is allowed to turn faster, more engine torque will go to turning the generator than to the final drive, and then as you said, the one way clutch completely separates the engine for full ev mode
Great job👍
Great in-depth video. Can you tell me what is going on inside when the Maverick is being towed?
I have to correct one thing he said in this video. He said that in the first generation eCVT that the engine had to be running for the vehicle to move. I owned a 2005 Escape hybrid. I could drive up to 30 MPH on electric mode only under a light load on flat or downgrades. The engine engaged under a moderate load demand or if the HV battery needed charging. This was limited to a distance of about 2-3 miles. I own a '13 Fusion hybrid and it runs a LOT farther.
Thank you. Yes, I was wrong about the EV mode. Have a good day!
Thanks John. Will you get a P610 to pull apart? The 2016 Prius is a small unit as well. I'm told they've used different materials to downsize. Something carbide I think! I'm a long time subscriber and I've learnt a great deal from you, better info than factory training here in the U.K. I thank you again.
Thank you! I hope to get a P610, but my sources are from salvage yards. I need someone to wreck their car first. I am not aware of any special materials in the P610 (compared to previous models). I believe the downsizing comes from the parallel axis motors. Thanks for your feedback!
Sorry John, I missed a word! I meant the inverter is downsized. It is a lot smaller and sits a little lower in the engine bay too. They had a transaxle on a stand on the model training but not one to strip! If I could fit it in my pocket I'd mail it to you!
Hi John. I'm puzzled. I have a 13 Fusion hybrid, (the regular one, not the plug-in type). I don't see any facility in your demonstration that accounts for low gear. I don't know if you've driven one or not, but in low gear it feels like any other automatic transmission. Engine seems to be mechanically connected to the axle (through the torque converter). Substantial power and a strong hold-back on a steep downgrade.
Also the engine comes on with moderate acceleration and it acts just like a CVT. On a heavy acceleration both the electric motor and engine are putting out power but the engine speed is pretty much level as the car's speed picks up. That acts like a CVT.
Also if the downgrade assist is on, going down a steep grade at highway speed the engine starts to hold the speed down. When that engine winds up it sounds like "60mph in low gear". Ford says that's normal.
So the big question is, is there more to that electro-mechanical gear case than what you showed, or is there some magic going on?
Thank you!
There is no low "gear" on these transmissions. It just feels that way because of the way the control the combined engine and transmission operation. Thanks for your feedback!
Hoping you could go over the final drive system 😊
great video. enjoyed watching it. I admire the the toyota/aisin hybrid design.
It's primarily the Aisin design.
Aisin approached Toyota in the 90's and they weren't interested. They then approached other manufacturers and it was Ford that first partnered with them, even though it was Toyota that got their vehicle to market first.
Do you have the stators?
Yes, I forgot to show them.
So, is this the entire unit? Is the "shifting" all taking place here within the small planetary gearset and such? Is it correct to say the "belt" in a traditional CVT would be "in here" if this unit had a belt?
In a sense, yes. An eCVT is really only described as a CVT because it allows for effectively variable gear ratios, but the mechanics don't work exactly the same as a traditional belt-driven CVT. These mainly use the electric motors to vary the effective gear ratio (I say effective because the actual gear ratio in the transmission doesn't really exist because the engine is never solely driving the wheels).
Very interesting. Never really knew how it all worked even though I️ work in a shop manufacturing most of the hf-35 gears shown.
Thank you! Thanks for the feedback!
Thanks for the video. One thing I'm not sure about is how the gear ratio between the engine and final drive is altered. Is this done by controlling the speed of the starter/generator by controlling current draw?
Yes, there are two torque paths, one from the engine/generator combination, the other from the traction motor. The difference between engine rpm and generator rpm determines how much assist is offered to the traction motor to drive the final drive.
When the gasoline engine is used for propulsion, does it physically connect to the drive gears and provide mechanical power, or does it strictly spin the generator motor to supply more electric energy to the drive motor via the high voltage cables? In other words, does the gas engine ever physically connect to the wheels, or is it strictly another source of electric power such as the way a freight train operates?
1st generation cabin graphics show direct linkage via CVT to front wheels. Let me know if there's more to it.
Is this the same trans in the Ford Maverick?
So this cvt doesn’t have a belt?
No Belt
Outstanding video! Thank you for the education. I’m going to check out the rest of the channel. Do you have a video on how the Ford hybrid engages / disengages the drive axle to the wheels? I have a 2022 Ford Escape hybrid that at times bangs when switching into drive and then is very loud moving forward… almost like something is not fully engaged or fully synchronized.
Hi John: my simple question is how or what generate other than the brakes the recharging? those the drive electric motor is used as a generator? What keeps the battery charged?
Hi, the small motor is the primary generator when the engine is running and keeps the battery charged. That is why the engine will start and stop over an extended idle period. The larger motor provides regenerative braking only when decelerating.
As always, great presentation, very well explained. Thank you for sharing. Looking forward to the Chevy Volt transmission video.
Since all three transmissions look fairly similar, I wonder if Ford had to pay royalties for "borrowing" Aisin's design, even though their HF-35 is slightly different ?
Thank you! I do not know about the licensing. Thanks for the feedback!
perfectly explained. thank you
Thank you!
always top quality, thank you ...
Thank you!
Great presentation. Thank you so much. congratulation.
If you apply DC to the windings of an AC permanent magnetic motor, the rotor will lock....just saying. Great video professor!
Is there a need to change oil in FORD or Toyota Ecvt bezstopniowa skrzynia biegów Transaxle ?
Well Done! What are your thoughts on the transfer shaft bearing failures HF-35 TSB 14-0214? My 2013 Cmax hybrid (59k miles) is experiencing the rubbing/bad bearing sound especially when in electric mode, slow speeds and coasting. Has the root cause been determined? Has corrective actions actually been implemented? Pictures on the internet show where the assemble is actually rubbing the damper housing near the end of the bearing failure evolution, not good. Can I expect an engineered fix, or glorified parts replacement with similar MTBF? I know you are not Ford Inc. but I do respect your obvious mechanical expertise. Well done on the video!
Thank you! I do not know the exact cause of Ford HF-35 counter transfer shaft bearing failures, but in my opinion, I suspect the bearings were not properly preloaded upon initial assembly. When a bearing is preloaded, all of the shaft end-play is removed and the bearings and shaft are physically compressed by the transmission case halves. An exact amount of preload is required to keep the counter transfer shaft from tilting to one side or the other under a load (accelerating or decelerating).
When a bearing preload is too low, the shaft will immediately tilt under a load and make noise (from gears rubbing on other gears with no clearance or backlash) from the time the transmission is new. This is not what appears to be happening with your transaxle.
When a bearing preload is too high, the bearings will experience spalling, pieces will chip off, and eventually enough material chips off of the bearing to reduce the preload forces and actually create shaft end-play. Of course this will cause noise from gears rubbing on other gears with no clearance or backlash. This process takes a long time and sounds like what you are experiencing. If the failure is caught at this point, the transaxle could be repaired by replacing the counter transfer shaft and bearings and adjusting the preload to the proper level. This level of technical work is very difficult, time consuming, and requires a well-trained and experienced technician who actually cares about doing the repair correctly. The possibility of this happening under the current low paying warranty repair system in Ford dealerships is next to ZERO! There is no way I would let any technician repair my Ford HF-35 transaxle, I would insist on a replacement transmission.
If the failure is not caught right away (continue driving while the transaxle makes noise) the bearing will continue deteriorating until the shaft tilts so much under a load that it actually starts rubbing on the transaxle case. There is no repair for this condition, so the entire transaxle will need to be replaced.
From what I have read, this failure only occurred between certain model years before a change was made in the assembly plant to correct it. I am confident that a replacement transmission will be assembled correctly and your vehicle will last for many more years. I hope that helps, Best wishes!
WeberAuto Thank you sir for responding in such an informative and balanced manner. My 2013 CMax (59k) hybrid is returning to the selling Ford dealership on Tuesday (12/12/2017) to begin the transmission repair (hope not) or transmission replacement (hope so). Another reason I'm uncomfortable with a repair is that with the transmission fluid cooling the motor windings they have to be contaminated with fine metal particles. Some of these particles will not be aluminum but steel (gear, bearing roller, race) and can be magnetized. With the strong, rapidly fluctuating magnetic fields involved in a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD), the trapped particles will physically wiggle possibly wearing through the insulating varnish on the windings, leading to shorted windings. My favorite analysis tools for unknown failure, root cause determination, are; Kepner Tregoe for mechanical failures, Human Performance Evaluation System (HPES) for human error. HPES came from the Three Mile Island accident through INPO. I'm a retired power plant operations manager, Nuclear and Fossil Fuels. You sir are a gem! If you ever come around Nashville TN I would love to buy you a cup of coffee. Have a wonderful Holiday! Your videos are top notch!
Thank you, I am happy to be helpful. If the technician spots any metal flakes in the transmission fluid, according to the bulletin, the transmission will need to be replaced for the very reasons you stated. Let me know what happens with your CMax repair/replacement.
WeberAuto The biggest electric motors I've had experience with was a pair of 15,000 HP 6900 volt monsters. They were the drives for boiler feed pumps for a supercritical pressure boiler in Wausau WI. I'll update on the Cmax transmission saga, thanks for the help. The mechanics of your videos, views, audio, sequencing, component layout are excellent, nothing distracts from the presentation of information. While I am well past my schooling days I would have loved to have had a professor of your skills. Well Done Sir, well done!
Well, I got my 2013 Cmax back from the dealer with a new transmission at $0 cost, completely covered by warranty.
I highly recommend every owner of the susceptible population of Cmax, Fusion, MKZ hybrids (HF-35) take their car to the dealer and have their transmissions evaluated. I had no idea how noisy my transmission had become until the noise was gone with the new trans. Hybrid components have an 8 yr 100k miles warranty. -TSB 17 0039- Dealer claimed new trans cost was $5k without labor. If you don't take your car in to dealer you could be facing a very expensive repair, take advantage of Ford's current warranty programs before it's too late even if you have high mileage. My 2013 Cmax had 59K miles, thanks for your sound advice. Total time 15 days, I did get a loaner vehicle from the dealer which minimized the inconvenience.
Please:
What is fluid the CVT ford/ fusion/híbrid / 2016??
What is part number?
Thanks
Mercon 5. I do not have the parts number
@@WeberAuto Mercon LV not Mercon V
Same for 2022 Corsair grand touring?
Excellent sir
I didn't see on P610 Ford transmission vídeo any Continuos Variable Transmission (CVT). Does mean that this transaxle doesn't need to change relación gears to speed up output ?
The difference in the rotational speeds of the small motor and the engine make up an electronic CVT (eCVT). The eCVT then helps the large motor propel the vehicle down the road. Thanks for watching!
WeberAuto Thanks to you for these amazing videos, with them it is easy for normal pleople to understand hibrid transmissions.
I'm interested on Toyota C-HR hibrid and I think it should mount P610.
About eCVT , I will investigate where should be placed, as soon I thought planetary carrier was connected directly with engine crank shaft via fly wheel\engine clutch
I have a 2022 escape phev that I am looking to tow with. I am finding conflicting towing ratings between Ford escape phev(1500) lbs and Ford Kuga phev (3300)lbs. I do believe the Escape rating is considered unbraked and the Kuga rating is considered braked. The vehicles are the same as far as I can tell with the drivetrain. What would be the towing limiting factor in your opinion? Stator cooling? The owners manual also states not to tow in EV mode. Again the only factor I can think of is electric oil pump vs engine driven for cooling. Appreciate all of your videos, I'm learning a lot.
Question on the ECVT in a 2008 mariner. The shifter has a D and L range that doesnt seem to do much of anything. Does the eCTV actually have a low range?
I’m looking at electric transaxle options for a VW dune buggy conversion. The tried and true method is to bolt something like a Curtis AC-50 motor to the existing transmission but those motors are pretty expensive. Some things I’m unsure of with these more modern ev transaxles is how well they would run at lower battery voltage if they were from high voltage systems, if some are designed for more attainable battery voltage of 150-200 volts, and I’m confused by the hp ratings of the motors. I’ve seen the small rear electric transaxle for the Prius rated at 6hp but I’m unsure if that is electric hp or gas hp. The dune buggy I’m looking to build would be primarily used to get around the farm so range and top speed isn’t really an issue. I’d like something with good low end torque. I’d appreciate any advice.
Does this transmission have a gear to put into reverse or does it rely on the drive motor direction reversing?
The electric motor provides all of the reversing power.
Thanks for amazing videos. your explanation and a way you taking videos are so helpful. you mentioned that traction motor size is 88kW. so I wonder what size is generator motor. May I ask you the 3rd gen of ford hybrid's generator motor size?
Thank you for the videos, great work really professional. Do these Ford E-CVT's use a push belt?
Not Ford
Professor kelly
Thank you for this presentation
I want to ask that its correct that the 3rd generation HF35 have alot of problems and have a failure history?
If yes how we can prevent the tras. From failure??
Where is the output transmission speed sensor located on a 2016 Ford Fusion Energi? I never see any videos on this here on UA-cam anywhere.Does it even have one?
Thank you professor for your work and your precise explanation. One question, on the Ford HF35, does the oil pump always turn and lubricate even with the heat engine off or does the oil need a heat engine to turn that also turns passively downhill? Thank's for your job