Novax is perfect weapon of turtling. If you build it and enemy builds experimental, by the time that experimental travels 10 km you, it will be already too weak to do any big impact on battle = 1st pay off Than it will kill expanding mexes=2d pay off Next it will force shields=3d pay off And you will still have this unit in the space defending you or helping in assault. By the end of the game the mass you invested in it will becoma super efficient.
Cybran t2 point defense is why I use salems for ground creeping instead, highly recommended slogging through a land mass rush with them under shields. THERE'S NO EXCUSE NOT TO SPAM ED 1... THEY'RE SO CHEAP!
DPS is not the full story of weapons. Damage Per Hit is sometimes more important. Example, quake 3. The Plasma gun has the highest DPS of the entire game, but the shotgun delivers up to 150 damage per hit. The difference is that any supcom mobile unit will usually hit its target without fail, so DPS may have more importance. Artillery is another matter.
about T2 arty, you can put T1 pgen next to them to increase the firing rate for nearly no cost. about T1/T2 torpedo launcher, cybran have best statistic than the other. about T3 static arty, aeon is known as the best for arty fight. (damage over does work pretty well against shield) about T1 pd, it's the only structure that can be defended by walls.
You can put a pgen there if you only have one arty, but if you are spamming arty it is actually more mass efficient per damage to build another arty than to put pgens next to them.
i didn't know for wall next to T2 pd against rhino. Thx speed brnk : if you are spaming arty, you may want to get a pgen next to 2/3/4 arty. I'm pretty sure this would be more effective. (But you stack arty, so there is the aoe weapon drawnback... + pgen explosion death)
BRNKoINSANITY That doesn't make much sense to me. Couldn't you build grids? But it seems the discussion has very little impact anyways as t2 arty seems to be built so rarely.I just compared it with t3 mobile arty, the dps is lower even when calculated with +40% for pgens (if those 40 are true). You also get more range and less area. The Seraphim seems to be the best t2 arty.What about TMD? It seems those would be stationary defense? Afaik they are considered underpowered by some people and we might expect balance changes anyway. But it would still be interesting. I seem to be too stupid to position aeon TMD correctly, those missiles still tend to hit the shield behind the TMD.Also shields. I'd like to know more about faction specifics, especially considering the damage spill rules (how many still make sense for which faction?).Thanks a lot for making these videos, they are certainly helpful for noobs like me!
About the arty, if you are on T2 stage, then dont think about T2 stationary arty, its expensive, go T3 mobile arty everytime. But later when you hae T3 eco, T2 arty is not that expensive anymore, so in some situations its good, it can outrange fatboy, T2 navy for eample. And everything trying to reach your base would eat a lot of fire.
Played against someone the other day that built a paragon.... I had a mavor. Somehow he was able to shield paragon. I think he was assisting shields. Maybe turning them off and on....
I was doing some testing with a clan mate some time ago with t3 arty. 3 T3 arty will kill any shield configuration that you can possibly make, meaning that 3 t3 arty > Mavor and > Salvation as to mass and power efficiency. 2 T2 arty will kill most shield configurations. Also mixing t2 shields into your t3 shield defence can sometimes be more effective than simply spamming t3 shields due to the radius overflow issues. I can't confirm this though since I'm limited to vanilla now :c
Teleports are still broken because if enough sacu's are used their explosions will kill you, also they leave no reclaim so it always hurts even if they dont kill their target.
+cleverpighiding Oh! And there's the thing where Aeon Engineers and sACUs have the "Sacrifice" Ability, which take all the mass you needed to build the engi into their current build project, but then killing the engi. You can get a bunch of Aeon sACUs and get the teleport upgrade, and then warp into your base, start a GC, and then sacrifice all the sACUs into the GC. Tele-Colossus!
If Novax had extra uses apart from mass extractor harass and intel, and it had an extra counter method, it'd be a lot more engaging to use. I'd say give it extra damage against shields, like the aeon absolver, now it has an awesome extra use. Still does paltry damage by itself but it can break shields for arty or ahead of a ground push or bomber run. And the most logical counter it should have is to be targeted by SMD. Or it could have a firing energy cost, so your opponent can sabotage your power grid to disable it. Or both.
Again, this is a unit that appears deceptively weak, but in reality it would VERY easily become op. The only reason it is not op right now is that shields completely stop a single novax (but not so much multiples). However, when you build a novax, your enemy now has to invest thousands of mass into shielding for what he doesn't want destroyed, so you are still drastically impacting his Eco even if you aren't actually killing his mex.
BRNKoINSANITY Well, yeah, but you also wasted tens of thousands of mass in building that Novax. I understand it works as a slight psychological weapon, but it's usually not worth it, not even for intel. For an *experimental unit* nonetheless. You almost never see it used, and when you do, it's either in a very unbalanced game where the obvious winner has nothing better to do, or in games where it ends up not having any strategic value at all. And it's especially bad because UEF only has *one* practical experimental on land-only maps. Novax should get some changes to make it practical and viable as an *experimental* unit. Of course, if you just buff the damage, it easily becomes OP. I know that. Which is why I'm suggesting different mechanics and additional counters. This unit could VERY easily become a staple UEF experimental with some work.
eytan19 Yeah, but spy planes also see into the enemy base. I know a Novax has its hypothetical uses (hypothetical because it's still used very infrequently). I'm saying its capabilities don't clash well with its experimental status, if it was a T3 intel building like Cybran perimeter monitoring, I wouldn't mind. It's especially bad because, as I said, UEF have just one viable experimental on maps with no navy. The unit to fix this already exists, the Novax woud just need some flavor.
Well spy planes can be countered by sams or patrolling asf's. My point is just that there will always be a use for Novax even if it can't do much damage. Increasing its damage or buffing it in some other way is not a good idea, it would very quickly become op.
At the beginning you said T1 PDs have highest DPS from all PDs but actually its T3 PD with highest DPS. Also Id expect you to mention prize of TML and Nuke Missile in tutorial like this :| TML: E -3600 (-120/s) M -180 (-6/s) maybe add it as note?
No, like I literally built a missile in the middle of the cast while mousing over it and read off the stat.... Did you watch it? Lol :P Also, the t1 pd far and away does the most damage per mass and does the most damage per build space taken.
yes, first you said 1 mass per second ... I faceplamed there....then you correct it, but still that wont tell you exact cost of missile unless you count how long its being built. And people arent asking how much it drains, but how much that missile cost
It would help to have some of the relevant stats onscreen as you're talking about them, particularly some basic calculations like DPS/mass etc (with a note of aoe radius).
If I was a full time or even part time you tuber as a means of support (eg getting paid) I actually love to do things like this! But I just don't feel like spending 4 hours in post editing putting that kind of thing together.... If I was only doing one video a week maybe, but for three sup on vids a week that would be 1 hour to cast, 1 hour to pre-process for frame rate and adding/editing audio, 3-4 hours to cut and splice alternate views, diagrams, numbers, and time in Photoshop, then another 30 minutes my computer is bogged down doing the final export...... All told about 6 hours per video, 18 hours per week. This is the reason I did like 3 videos with heavy editing and then stopped. Not that I don't want to, I just literally do not have enough time in a day to do all this as I already work ~50 hours a week at my full time job :/
@@BRNKoINSANITY Well, thank you for doing this video! I'm a long time Forged Alliance player (10+ years) and it was still interesting to hear your points.
Duuuuude! You missed the special ability on the Seraphim's stationary T2 artillery. If the shot misses it's target and hits water, it turns into torpedoes! I thought I told you this already?!
Rabid Wizard I wasn't being sarcastic, it's an actual feature in Supcom FA. But I'm not sure whether FAF removed it (I doubt it). Try it out. Most of the time you see it when the artillery is targeting a naval unit and misses
Rabid Wizard Well it's not very practical because the torpedoes just circle around the spot they hit till they die. So it seems like it's just a bug really. But still, a feature nonetheless.
Not sure about the Seraphim T3 AA. Sure, its fast, but its barely capable of tracking, which means high speed planes moving about would make it miss, while the other SAMs near guaruntee a hit.
Brink: quick question - How did you ramp up the build speed of the Hive engineering stations? Is it a mod? Were you using some energy / mass econ boost to upgrade the hives and get them to build so fast?
I would like to learn everything about the game instead of watching boring gameplay. I might possibly learn something I didn't know. Maybe you could learn better grammar.
81 km is well beyond the horizon mind you so the shot irl would factor the diameter and rotation vector of the planet. Besides its artillery not a guided missile.
t1 static aa is not the same, aeon and sera are roughly the same, uef have slower firerate, and all of htem have slight projectile curvature for faster targets except the cybran which can't hit shit because it's horrible. all factions can stop t1 scouts but the cybran.
"Novax - unit, that some people love, and some people hate" Yes, i am one of those people who hate Novax, because it's very annoying, and t3 artyllery too annoying)
Glad to see someone still playing this game and making tutorials on it
7 years later, still being played 👏
Cybran tac launchers in general are amazing, the 4 barrel launcher is amazing for dumping its load rapidly.
I've listened to this twice, prepping for the last scenario of the Forged Alliance game. Thank you very much.
Novax is perfect weapon of turtling. If you build it and enemy builds experimental, by the time that experimental travels 10 km you, it will be already too weak to do any big impact on battle = 1st pay off
Than it will kill expanding mexes=2d pay off
Next it will force shields=3d pay off
And you will still have this unit in the space defending you or helping in assault.
By the end of the game the mass you invested in it will becoma super efficient.
I like how the term "novax" has drastically changed meaning since your comment was written.
@@laodes its still a good defense...
Cybran t2 point defense is why I use salems for ground creeping instead, highly recommended slogging through a land mass rush with them under shields.
THERE'S NO EXCUSE NOT TO SPAM ED 1... THEY'RE SO CHEAP!
DPS is not the full story of weapons. Damage Per Hit is sometimes more important. Example, quake 3. The Plasma gun has the highest DPS of the entire game, but the shotgun delivers up to 150 damage per hit. The difference is that any supcom mobile unit will usually hit its target without fail, so DPS may have more importance. Artillery is another matter.
Keep doing these vids Brink, I've been playing this game since 2008 and I'm still learning the odd bit of trivia here and there - very helpful :)
Which faction do you play the most?
T1 PD had different dmg and reload in the original supcom, but were similar in DPS
about T2 arty, you can put T1 pgen next to them to increase the firing rate for nearly no cost.
about T1/T2 torpedo launcher, cybran have best statistic than the other.
about T3 static arty, aeon is known as the best for arty fight. (damage over does work pretty well against shield)
about T1 pd, it's the only structure that can be defended by walls.
actually you can defend T2 PDs against cybran rhinos with walls quite well
You can put a pgen there if you only have one arty, but if you are spamming arty it is actually more mass efficient per damage to build another arty than to put pgens next to them.
i didn't know for wall next to T2 pd against rhino. Thx speed
brnk : if you are spaming arty, you may want to get a pgen next to 2/3/4 arty. I'm pretty sure this would be more effective. (But you stack arty, so there is the aoe weapon drawnback... + pgen explosion death)
BRNKoINSANITY That doesn't make much sense to me. Couldn't you build grids? But it seems the discussion has very little impact anyways as t2 arty seems to be built so rarely.I just compared it with t3 mobile arty, the dps is lower even when calculated with +40% for pgens (if those 40 are true). You also get more range and less area. The Seraphim seems to be the best t2 arty.What about TMD? It seems those would be stationary defense? Afaik they are considered underpowered by some people and we might expect balance changes anyway. But it would still be interesting. I seem to be too stupid to position aeon TMD correctly, those missiles still tend to hit the shield behind the TMD.Also shields. I'd like to know more about faction specifics, especially considering the damage spill rules (how many still make sense for which faction?).Thanks a lot for making these videos, they are certainly helpful for noobs like me!
About the arty, if you are on T2 stage, then dont think about T2 stationary arty, its expensive, go T3 mobile arty everytime. But later when you hae T3 eco, T2 arty is not that expensive anymore, so in some situations its good, it can outrange fatboy, T2 navy for eample. And everything trying to reach your base would eat a lot of fire.
Got all the itty bitty details i wanted, love ur take on things :D thanks for the vid brnkoinsanity!!
Played against someone the other day that built a paragon.... I had a mavor. Somehow he was able to shield paragon. I think he was assisting shields. Maybe turning them off and on....
Shield assist can work vs one mavor by itself..... resource intensive, but paragon helps with that xD
I was doing some testing with a clan mate some time ago with t3 arty. 3 T3 arty will kill any shield configuration that you can possibly make, meaning that 3 t3 arty > Mavor and > Salvation as to mass and power efficiency. 2 T2 arty will kill most shield configurations.
Also mixing t2 shields into your t3 shield defence can sometimes be more effective than simply spamming t3 shields due to the radius overflow issues.
I can't confirm this though since I'm limited to vanilla now :c
Clans?
its like saying your in club like FAZE or something, some people like to do it but i dont see the point.
Teleports are still broken because if enough sacu's are used their explosions will kill you, also they leave no reclaim so it always hurts even if they dont kill their target.
+cleverpighiding how much is enough though?
+cleverpighiding Oh! And there's the thing where Aeon Engineers and sACUs have the "Sacrifice" Ability, which take all the mass you needed to build the engi into their current build project, but then killing the engi. You can get a bunch of Aeon sACUs and get the teleport upgrade, and then warp into your base, start a GC, and then sacrifice all the sACUs into the GC. Tele-Colossus!
You should be able to defuse them like a ythotha, reclaim them to cancel their death weapon firing.
If only.
how about moving out of the way.....
If Novax had extra uses apart from mass extractor harass and intel, and it had an extra counter method, it'd be a lot more engaging to use.
I'd say give it extra damage against shields, like the aeon absolver, now it has an awesome extra use. Still does paltry damage by itself but it can break shields for arty or ahead of a ground push or bomber run.
And the most logical counter it should have is to be targeted by SMD. Or it could have a firing energy cost, so your opponent can sabotage your power grid to disable it. Or both.
Again, this is a unit that appears deceptively weak, but in reality it would VERY easily become op. The only reason it is not op right now is that shields completely stop a single novax (but not so much multiples). However, when you build a novax, your enemy now has to invest thousands of mass into shielding for what he doesn't want destroyed, so you are still drastically impacting his Eco even if you aren't actually killing his mex.
BRNKoINSANITY Well, yeah, but you also wasted tens of thousands of mass in building that Novax. I understand it works as a slight psychological weapon, but it's usually not worth it, not even for intel. For an *experimental unit* nonetheless.
You almost never see it used, and when you do, it's either in a very unbalanced game where the obvious winner has nothing better to do, or in games where it ends up not having any strategic value at all.
And it's especially bad because UEF only has *one* practical experimental on land-only maps. Novax should get some changes to make it practical and viable as an *experimental* unit.
Of course, if you just buff the damage, it easily becomes OP. I know that. Which is why I'm suggesting different mechanics and additional counters. This unit could VERY easily become a staple UEF experimental with some work.
zolikoff Also it allows you to see into the enemy base. Intel is priceless.
eytan19 Yeah, but spy planes also see into the enemy base. I know a Novax has its hypothetical uses (hypothetical because it's still used very infrequently). I'm saying its capabilities don't clash well with its experimental status, if it was a T3 intel building like Cybran perimeter monitoring, I wouldn't mind. It's especially bad because, as I said, UEF have just one viable experimental on maps with no navy. The unit to fix this already exists, the Novax woud just need some flavor.
Well spy planes can be countered by sams or patrolling asf's. My point is just that there will always be a use for Novax even if it can't do much damage. Increasing its damage or buffing it in some other way is not a good idea, it would very quickly become op.
Very old, but still bloody great watch. FAF doubled it's numbers this year... looks like FAF's making a comeback
(jarinn on FAF)
33:49 :)
i wish it would be so
what else to expect from cybran player :D
It almost seems as if Cybran defensive structures are designed to be offensive in mind.
Or maybe I just think in such terms.
They are good for aggro expansion with a sacu tbh, if only somewhat.
At the beginning you said T1 PDs have highest DPS from all PDs but actually its T3 PD with highest DPS.
Also Id expect you to mention prize of TML and Nuke Missile in tutorial like this :|
TML:
E -3600 (-120/s)
M -180 (-6/s)
maybe add it as note?
I did give the price of tml building, and I said I didn't want to discuss nukes :P
BRNKoINSANITY price of building yes, every joe can find it in unitdb, but everyone keep asking about missile cost
No, like I literally built a missile in the middle of the cast while mousing over it and read off the stat.... Did you watch it? Lol :P
Also, the t1 pd far and away does the most damage per mass and does the most damage per build space taken.
yes, first you said 1 mass per second ... I faceplamed there....then you correct it, but still that wont tell you exact cost of missile unless you count how long its being built. And people arent asking how much it drains, but how much that missile cost
speed2 considering the game works on mass/energy per second, the drain matters more than the total cost
4 years late to this but in the vanilla game, the Mavor costs 302k mass and 9 million energy
nice video :D next time it would be helpful to write the numbers next to the buildings so that one can have a visual comparison
It would help to have some of the relevant stats onscreen as you're talking about them, particularly some basic calculations like DPS/mass etc (with a note of aoe radius).
I argree but remember how pressed brink is for time. Don't want to give him extra math homework.
If I was a full time or even part time you tuber as a means of support (eg getting paid) I actually love to do things like this! But I just don't feel like spending 4 hours in post editing putting that kind of thing together.... If I was only doing one video a week maybe, but for three sup on vids a week that would be 1 hour to cast, 1 hour to pre-process for frame rate and adding/editing audio, 3-4 hours to cut and splice alternate views, diagrams, numbers, and time in Photoshop, then another 30 minutes my computer is bogged down doing the final export...... All told about 6 hours per video, 18 hours per week. This is the reason I did like 3 videos with heavy editing and then stopped. Not that I don't want to, I just literally do not have enough time in a day to do all this as I already work ~50 hours a week at my full time job :/
@@BRNKoINSANITY Well, thank you for doing this video! I'm a long time Forged Alliance player (10+ years) and it was still interesting to hear your points.
I'd say the satalight is worse, simply because you need 3 to = 1 but 3 = 6 supply where t3 arty = 1 supply on the unit limit
Duuuuude! You missed the special ability on the Seraphim's stationary T2 artillery. If the shot misses it's target and hits water, it turns into torpedoes! I thought I told you this already?!
Cryoxiis riiight.
Suuure.
Rabid Wizard I wasn't being sarcastic, it's an actual feature in Supcom FA. But I'm not sure whether FAF removed it (I doubt it). Try it out. Most of the time you see it when the artillery is targeting a naval unit and misses
Cryoxiis Ok, sure,
If so. it sounds awesome.
Rabid Wizard Well it's not very practical because the torpedoes just circle around the spot they hit till they die. So it seems like it's just a bug really. But still, a feature nonetheless.
Not sure about the Seraphim T3 AA. Sure, its fast, but its barely capable of tracking, which means high speed planes moving about would make it miss, while the other SAMs near guaruntee a hit.
If you've never maxed out a paragon, have you truelly ever mass stalled?
Do you cover shields of all the factions in con-pairs to each other in a video?
This video is ancient, but how about the tactical missile defense?
another use of the novax is as paragon killer. Just hover abover the paragon and set to selfdistruct. you gonna need several novax though...
We don't do that to each other, gentlemen's rule. It is an unstoppable attack, and therefore cannot be prevented or balanced out.
@@BRNKoINSANITY Ironically they have tried to balance it in the latest patch :D Random falling animations!
- "no space to build"
- has whole map 😂
Why is it not possible to stop long range artillery from firing in the game?
it is. click on the unit and look at the menus for it, bottom left. the red icon is firing mode. theres a hold fire option
What explosion mod are you using for that? Do you have a link for that?
Great video! very insightful. What were you using for the unit info? the old FAF UDB isn't current as far as i know
minifig04 I think he was using the code for the game, making it as accurate as possible because it _is_ the stats.
spooky.github.io/unitdb seems to have up-to-date unit info
Brink: quick question - How did you ramp up the build speed of the Hive engineering stations? Is it a mod? Were you using some energy / mass econ boost to upgrade the hives and get them to build so fast?
+vpp1956 it was a game with cheats on, and I just spawned 100 tier 3 hives. They just appeared all stacked on top of each other.
Can you do supreme commander 2 like this?
Supreme commander 2 ain't that complex
I would like to learn everything about the game instead of watching boring gameplay. I might possibly learn something I didn't know. Maybe you could learn better grammar.
how did u get that menu up to spawn those air scouts in?
+Solid G alt+f2 :D
+Solid G but you have to have cheats enabled
+Fallon Miller (booby doopy poo) ok thanks
FAF actually buffed the Novax from the vanilla game... in Vanilla the Novax had a very crappy range and vision range, but was cheaper and moved faster
+UNSCrearadmiral The novax wasnt in the vanilla.
i meant Vanilla as in Vanilla Forged Alliance, not Vanilla Supreme commander. Sorry for the misunderstanding on that.
Try Mavor on 81 km map. It's pretty inaccurate especially when hunting for commander.
Benny Hillarious hunt the commander with t3-4 arty sounds like a pretty longshot idea
Ezario Gerion it's OK, when you use 6 of them. 😁
81 km is well beyond the horizon mind you so the shot irl would factor the diameter and rotation vector of the planet. Besides its artillery not a guided missile.
Novax satellite can block nukes and survive.
in theory, sure >_>
DO A SACU Tutorial!!!!!!!!!!
It sod be interesting and teach a lot to "noobs" and people thet dont use them.
GL HF casting. ;-)
ua-cam.com/video/LasuxvJlHaY/v-deo.html (he did already)
t1 static aa is not the same, aeon and sera are roughly the same, uef have slower firerate, and all of htem have slight projectile curvature for faster targets except the cybran which can't hit shit because it's horrible. all factions can stop t1 scouts but the cybran.
"Novax - unit, that some people love, and some people hate"
Yes, i am one of those people who hate Novax, because it's very annoying, and t3 artyllery too annoying)
50 minutes D: D: D:
First
Sorry. I think brink beat ya to it.