So I'm a little perplexed here, and I may be totally out of line but I will propose a food for thought question! To my understanding the reasons for neck sizing 1) to prolong the life of your brass 2) your cartridge when fired expands in the chamber causing the cartridge to conform to your rifles chamber there fore presenting my point. If the cartridge conforms to your rifles chamber why would you need to push the head space back to factory in turn creating the gap between the factory shape of the cartridge and the profile of your rifles chamber which in turn would expend more energy to expand the brass again and also moving the brass back to the shape of your chamber once again. I can understand the neck size part as it would be the portion of the cartridge that supports the projectile there as it must be squeezed closed to hold the bullet. but unless your reloading for semi auto rifles where as you would be full sizing or your sharing the cartridge between multiple rifles I would just leave the cartridge as it was conformed to that rifles chamber in turn expending more energy to the push of the projectile rather than wasting energy pushing the brass diverting that energy toward the bullet. Thoughts on this??? I must admit this is not and original thought on my behalf it is a thought that I discovered in research online forums and as a machinist in profession it made sense to me.
Thank you for your comment and rational question. I truly appreciate you giving me the benefit that I may not be completely crazy. Many do not give me that opportunity. Yes there are reasons and before I get into a complete diatribe on my process the point that people miss is that there are different "style" guns for different folks. This is not a Bench rest rifle, and I do not intend it to be, For Bench rest you would be almost 100% correct (from what I understand of it anyway) except they have perfectly clean chambers, clean very frequently, and I am not sure if they ever shoot more than 5 or 10 shots between rounds in competition. I have never competed (and have no plans too) Though they do actually have to body size occasionally (somewhere far less than a typical bolt gun might need). So what style of gun is this for then? PRS. (I might actually think this same way for a bolt hunting rifle, but that's for a different conversation) If you research PRS style shooting the overwhelming thing that I find and here on many channels (6.5 guys, 8541 tactical, pan handle precision, just to name a few there are lots more) these guns are ran in less than "clean" environments. It is not impossible for a grain (or 2) of sand to be blowing around and somehow end up in your chamber. If you only neck size you will very likely run into a situation where you can not actually chamber a round if you only neck size. When you have only 90 seconds to shoot 10-12 rounds out to 1000 yards, not having a round chamber ruins your round, if not your day. Everyone that reloads and shoots in these style of matches always recommend full length sizing and bumping the shoulder somewhere between .001 and .002 (this is still not taking this dimension back to Spec but it does give enough space for that 1 grain of sand not to ruin your stage (hopefully) I have seen this recommendation from everyone that shoots this "style" of match. Function is everything. The amount of accuracy lost is not near the concern as loss of proper function of the brass through the rifle. Also for this particular cartridge (6.5 creedmoor) you need to also understand its weak link. (like every other thing in life too I guess) Which seems to be the primer pocket. Typical failure in hornady brass happens somewhere between 8-12 firings and you can't get a primer to stay in any more. I anneal before I resize (and I have gotten the impression from others even if you don't) the neck / and shoulders never fail first, it seems to always be the primer pocket getting too big. (thus resizing this area having no detriment to the overall case life) I am not saying it is impossible to have a split case, but my reloading process is yet to have one. (for this cartridge anyway) If I was to have this problem, I would certainly evaluate changing my process. People far to frequently live in their own world and have only one way of thinking. (especially when it comes to reloading) Though it may be correct for one it is not correct for all. I like to explain it like this (when I have the opportunity) Telling someone to only ever neck size for their bolt gun is kind of like telling a construction worker that he doesn't need his truck, and only needs a Prius, or to tell the same guy, you have to have a truck if you work in construction. For the guys that don't carry around materials and just need to get themselves to the job site it would work, but if your the one bringing the studs and the drywall, its hard to do without that truck. Sorry for the wordy response, but I certainly appreciate your giving me the opportunity to respond. I hope you enjoy the channel. Please feel free to comment on anything you like, I learn a lot from my viewers. Full disclosure: I have a neck die for this cartridge as well, (Redding) but it won't find its way on to any ammo that I have to 100% rely on for function for a match in this rifle. For a day of experimentation at the range though, absolutely. Thanks again.
Thanks for your response, however I'm not quite sure I follow along with your philosophy. All that aside if the problem is pushing back the neck and taper enough for a smooth chambering here is a little trick that will save you from over camming your vice and pushing your dies. Use your Micrometer or calipers to take an accurate measurement of the overall length of your shell holder. using a stone take .003 to .005 thousandth of an inch off the top of your shell holder being careful to check for parallelism as you go. This is a practice that has been preformed for headspace issues in reloading for many years to solve the issue you are dealing with. Try it, it works like a champ I have done so myself although I am a seasoned machinist by trade. This will save you a ton of aggravation and effort. If you feel you can't do it accurately check your local machine shops the cost to have it done professionally is miniscule and will ensure that it is parallel. If you are worried about damaging your shell holder buy a second holder they are cheap enough to buy to experiment. but believe me you will see it works!
If you neck size only, after a few firings, that shoulder is going to be blown forward quite a bit and closing the bolt will be difficult (tension). This is why setting a full length sizing die to bump the shoulder back .001 to .002" is ideal so you don't have to worry about the increased friction on bolt close. Not to mention, if you use a case trimmer that indexes off of the shoulder (e.g. Giraud Power Trimmer), you need to full length size so the base to shoulder lengths are consistent.
Thank u for this response, although its a little old, Trike GMister's comment was exactly what I was thinking, but thank u for responding and taking the time to explain.....
I noticed that you are using the same shell holder from one sizing die to another. I have checked the thickness of a series of shell holders and have noticed that they are a different thickness and that is what the die comes into contact with to regulate the amount of setback or more particularly, how far the case actually goes into the die. I too have seen the same issues with Lee resizing dies but now use the same shell holder matched with the same resizing die each time I resize. This has seemed to have fixed the issue in combination with lightly polishing the top of the shell holder to get the correct amount of setback needed and like you are seeing just a few thousands usually does the trick. Hand loading is truly an art and a science.
The problem you are having with the Lee die (I almost promise) is not that it is not pushing the shoulders back but instead as the expander ball is being pulled out, it is pulling the shoulders back out.
Thanks for all of this info and constructive comments! I have a Ruger predator 6.5creedmore (new in the fall) and I am totally new to reloading, but I see all of the advantages of reloading the 6.5. This info is excellent, Thanks again!! ps, I am in upstate NY and it has been a LONG winter!!
+John Shusdock thanks for the comment. Glad you find the info useful. I have lots more content coming on the 6.5 creedmoor. Consider subscribing if you haven't already.
The Lee Die set is all you really need with the exception of a good match grade bullet seater. If you clean the inside of the neck out with a wire brush on a drill you don't even need to lube the case with the neck sizing die. Granted when the case over time gets too hard to lock in with the bolt it will need to be resized with the full length sizer and it will need to be lubed. It may only need a partial sizing to be able to close the bolt on the cartridge without excess effort. More attention needs to be place on the case length that will lengthen after firing. I own a lot of dies and do a lot of reloading with Lee Dies, Hornady Dies, RCBS Dies and even Redding Dies. It doesn't make much difference which ones you are using so long as you have a good bench rest seating die and maybe a factory crimp die for a light crimp. All those measurements off the shoulder with the gauges used are not accurate. The only accurate gauge for checking the shoulder are made by RCBS and they are caliber specific. I know because I own a number of them. The Hornady Gauge used with and insert is only used for bullet seating depth on a cartridge for headspace off the riffling and it is just an approximation at best. It is a nice video with good intentions but a bit flawed. I am not saying Lee Dies are as good a quality as all the others I own, but if they are in good condition at the time you use them they will do the job and make accurate ammunition. Some world records still stand that were shot from ammo made with the Lee Neck Sizing Colet Dies. Some ammo shoots more consistent with a light crimp from a factory crimp die. Not all but many. It gives a more consistent pressure in ignition as well as staking the bullet from possibly being bumped out of center giving it yaw. That can happen when there isn't enough retention on the bullet when seated.
Hi Garry, While a appreciate you commenting I have to say that I think that you largely miss the point of the video. If you are familiar with all brands of dies i guess the video isn't for you. I have other lee dies as well, however this is the most useless lee dies I own. Unfortunately so many people make comments like this and think that their specific reloading application is everyone's reloading application. Every respectable source for PRS reloading (my application) FL sizes every time generally pushing the should back .002 to .003", If you choose not too its completely your choice. Please don't change on my account. The FL die for this simply does not push my shoulder back without sanding the die or the shell holder. My chamber is smaller I guess, and again without equipment modification I can't get the setback I am shooting for. As for the bullet seating die, its worthless for seating high BC bullets. go watch my die seating stem comparison if you want a better understanding of why I feel this way. 6.5 Creedmoor is gaining popularity right now because its ability to reach out to distance, has low recoil, and there are a lot of newer High BC bullets that lend themselves to that application. Like you mention a good bullet seating die is needed in addition to this set, Something you could learn from watching this video if again you are new to the caliber. My favorite part about your comment is telling others that my tools are "not accurate". You are correct that the RCBC precision Mic would be a much better tool, except that they don't make one for 6.5 creedmoor at this time. (Please correct me if you can find one, I have looked) If this were 308 that's what I would use for the best results, but a lot of people who are only going to spend $30-40 on a die set aren't spending $55 on the measuring tool for only one caliber either. I don't think its responsible to start talking about tools that they could use that don't exist for the application I am discussing. Another point is when I purchased both the match and custom set Hornady does the worst job telling you what is in the sets. I try to lay it out as clear as I can to save you some time and money if you are watching videos to help you decide. I appreciate you taking the time to comment but there is good info in here, maybe not for you, but for some there is info in here that I simply couldn't find anywhere else.
Around 00:04:54, talking about pushing the shoulder back to where the factory ammo was: I had a rifle that chambered Hornady Black w no trouble but my reloads were too long to seat easily (AR, had to slam the bolt closed then, sometimes, tap the assist hard). I tool the rifle to a Smith who said it was short-chambered and reamed it a touch. Then it worked with my reloads. 3 other rifles in the same cartridge never gave me trouble with the same resizer over about 5 years and a couple thousand rounds. My point: I think Hornady ammo (at least) was sized a little under SAAMI min to be sure it would chamber in even the tightest chambers. FWIW. I never checked them for that, I wouldn't know if my datum line with my gauge was the same as what the spec goes by. But, 3 chambers by 2 manufacturers worked flawlessly with both Hornady and Lee sizing dies, only one wouldn't accept my resized cases and a Smith said it was short. This was at least 5 years ago and I didn't have a GO gauge to check the chamber. I had the Smith fix the chamber then gave the upper away, can't check it now. YMMV.
Are you using the shell holder that came with the Lee dies? The guys are set up for the manufactured shell holder. I had to grind the top of my Hornady shell holder on both my 6-5 Creedmoor and my 6.5 Grendel Hornady dies in order to get them back to Sammi spec as verified by a case gauge. While my 6.5 Creedmoor would chamber in my bolt gun it would not load in my gas gun without bumping the shoulder further back than was allowed by the Factory Hornady shell holder
For the custom grade dies, does it also remove the old primer? Looking to get into reloading and am trying to get all the parts I need together, thank you.
I had the same issue. Shoulder would not move with Lee die for 6.5 Creedmoor, until I annealed the brass. After annealing I was able to set the head space correctly with Lee die. Just FYI. Thanks for the video.
sand off a couple thousands from the die's bottom....merely hold it down flush using your hand and polish it back & forth using 80grit then 400grit for polish
You don't need to neck turn your brass. You have the Lee neck sizing die that uniforms the thickness of the case neck. Fortune cookie 45 has a video on that die you should watch.
Thanks for putting out a great quality review! I just got that same Hornady match grade set and there is a difference in the seating stems. slip a 140 rdf upside down into each stem, and it bottoms out on one of them, and fits like a glove on the other. the 147/143's are likely that similar long shape. Keep up the great work!!
@@BoltActionReloading Its beyond terrible, in their description and in their marketing materials. I had No idea they came with seating stems till you showed this. Good luck keeping them straight since they aren't marked either ! LOL Hornady is really making me turn my thinking about them around lately.
which headspace insert are you using to measure? I did not see the Creedmoor on the list from Hornady. i also have an RPR that i would like to start reloading for...all i have so far is the Hornady Classic kit, no dies or anything else yet. Looking around for good info on other tools/gear to aquire, thanks.
+lonz73 the parent case for the 6.5 creedmoor is the 308. Same for the 243 Winchester. Looking at Hornady package this would require the use of the d400 gauge. If you want to use the base I would recommend actually getting the Hornady digital calipers. This is the only set that I have seen them line up correctly when they are installed on them. Dies a all about budget and goals. Lee are cheap but work great for the money, but if quality over$ is your concern you can't go wrong with Redding. I am going to start going over my reloading process, but in reality it's going to take some time to produce it and get it out.
Good video for a beginner. Neck bushings are very important, and they are not one size fits all. It will change from one manufacturer to another. Example: Lapua brass if I remember correctly for a 6.5 creedmoor is .290 and Hornady is .288. I would not swear to that being correct on the size but you get the jest. It is very important to get this right. Especially in precision shooting.
All 3 of the dies I demonstrate are full length size dies. Though the lee set has a neck sizing die I do not demonstrate it in this video. Obviously off of these does are either significantly making contact with the shell holder (Lee) or are at least making some contact with the shell holder.
Have you tries starline brass or the ADG brass? Ive not bought any reloading components yet for 6.5 CM. Im not sure what to get for dies. To me, not that i am that experienced, Lee dies are good but i prefer them for straight walled pistol cartridges or brush gun cartridges like 30-30. If not done much rifle reloading though. When you buy the hornady dies, do they still send you free bullets, and if so do they offer any in 6.5?
+TheOutdoorsman thanks for commenting. I have a video doing a brass comparison where the starline is included. So far my experience is that the lapua or Norma has done the best for me. There are several considerations that you can decide. Loads tend to work best with the LR primers, however the SR primer pockets will hold up much longer than the LR. Best of luck.
I dont reload for it yet. Im just getting data and research right now. Not sure i want to get to crazy on brass cost, I figure get about 7 reloads then toss the brass out. I was reading the ADG brass can go 10 plus loading and was high quality as well. Probably all depends on how hard you push it. If you send Hodgdon a e-mail they will send you a more up to date load data list with some newer bullets and powders like the hybrid 100V, They sent me some data anyway. I was planing on the hornady ELD-X bullets. I will probably start out just using factory loads. Just recently ordered the 6.5 CM, dont have it yet.
What dies did you go with for the 6mm Creedmoor? I’m ready to order a set of dies to get into reloading my 6CM and I’m thinking of getting the RCBS Match Master set. What’s your experience and input? I can’t find much on the equipment side for reloading 6CM
+Benny Bruin thanks for the comment. I don't want to jump to any conclusions, so i have some videos planned to demonstrate this. I have just been working on other stuff. I still haven't been able to get any real shoulder bump even when they are annealed though.
If I bought the hornady custom seating die, what seating stem would I need to load a sierra matchking bullet? Would the stem I need be included with the either the custom or the match?
+BCB the stem you need would come with the match set. (I assume you are taking about the 142gr?) I'm on the road this week but I can check when I get back if you give me the details.
Check the seat and top flange thickness of your shell holders. That's the thickness between where the shell holder sits on the ram and the area where the brass sits in the shell holder, also check the thickness of the flange that holds the brass. If either dimension is to thick it could be hitting the die before the brass is fully sized. I've seen that dimension wander as much as .007". I resized some 308 with a set of RCBS dies with an generic shell holder and those rounds wouldn't chamber so I started measuring. The 308 family is extensive and I own a lot of those calibers and have multiple shell holders and they all vary but I've found the Redding and RCBS to be the shortest and most consistent. If you have to remove a couple thousandths off the top of the shell holder.
For some reason it annoys me when people say "Hornaday" instead of "Hornadee." Anyways..I have the Hornady 6.5 creedmoor dies and I don't seem to have any problem resizing brass and bumping the shoulder back a couple thousandths. I haven't tried seating any of the ELD-X bullets yet so I don't know about the stems yet
+mojo jojo I am horrible about this and I know it. Sometimes bad habits break hard. I just don't have the time to refilm and correct this kind of stuff. I am sure that's where some of my thumbs down come from, but I try to get good info out where I don't find it. Hope you enjoy the channel otherwise
I'm in the market for dies to reload my 3006 cartridges with. I am having exactly the same problem trying to figure out which Hornady die set I should buy, as I already have the Hornady Lock and Load kit. Even on their website, they don't really give enough info. Thanks, your video definately helped me.
Spending lot of money for not a lot of gain, why would u want to push back the shoulser after fireforming? The better the fit to your rifle chamber to lower the sd because its everytime more uniform.
What's a good case length with hornady 6.5 creedmoore brass to stay between. Seems to come in new around 1.916. I try to stay at 1.915 lowest has been 1.906 thank you for the video
I trim to the book 1.910 pretty much. All the starline I have tried seem to all be short, but otherwise 1.910. BTW if you looking for brass give Peterson a try. I really think it's a fantastic value.
Bolt Action Reloading when you get to 1.920 is it a MUST to trim? Or can you push it to say 1.925 before you have to trim? I know the books say 1.920 is max. For pressure reasons, right? How much of that have you seen, or do you always trim BEFORE you go over 1.920?
+Mike Carlson Hornady only makes a bushing die for full length. The neck die they sell is not a bushing die. I called and they will make one for like $200 so I bought a Redding neck only bushing die.
+nickpequignotzj mostly for reliable feeding, etc. I have the Lee neck die and might try it sometime, but so far most things I have seen for the RPR guys are full length sizing the 6.5 creedmoor. I think after time you usually need to full length size anyway, but this is my first bolt gun to reload for.
+moparmadman Ahhhh okay. I never though of that. I always thought that was a semi auto thing. But I'm brand new to reloading. I have a ruger predator in 6.5 that I'll be reloading for eventually
I neck size everything (except for semi autos) Looking at your numbers the Lee die is getting you the best match to your chamber when it comes to FL sizing. Trying to resize down to factory ammo specs is just hard on your brass as those specs don't match the chamber in your rifle. I usually go four reloads on a lot of brass neck sizing then I bump it in a FL die.
Most of the top shooters in the world have went back to full length sizing with greater accuracy. Also if you're going to use the gun in different temperatures you're gonna save yourself alot of headache. The chamber is metal the case is metal. Temperature variations to cause a case to either fit right not fit at all. Too tight and you are looking at pressure problems.
thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for making this video... I ran into the same frustrating issue, that Hornady does not give much info about what their match grade dies really are.... After watching this, i'll definitely be getting a set of them on order, along with a bushing (which I wouldn't have known to order before watching this)
+Jason Lehman thanks for the comment. Your welcome. I was frustrated trying to figure out what is in it and until I got it I didn't know. Hornady tech support is pretty good but sometimes I think they try and answer so quickly that you don't get a full answer or they don't understand your question fully. Compared to anyone else though they are the quickest and if you get something that is wrong they want to fix it.
I just realised, the Hornady Match die set i bought for 6.5Creedmoor, isnt what the picture on the box shows. I pulled the decapping rod out, and it does not have the bevelled bullet shaped neck expander looking part. Its just a straight metal shaft with the decapping pin. Not sure if is also something I need to buy?
I've had some bad experience with a few Lee dies... Most recently on my Lee 350 Legend set of dies No matter how much I run it through the die it will not fit in m y Lyman case checker. A factory cartridge goes In it very easily. I don't normally buy cheap Lee dies.Mostly Whidden,LE Wilson and Triebel.I have a few Hornady. I've have noticed the inside finish on Hornady Match Grade are much smoother than Custom grade. Good video.I saw and commented on your video 2 years ago when I first Started reloading.
Good info video... Ok..my question is for a person (me) just starting out to reload 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 grendel and 223/5.56 what do I need? And what do you suggest.Id like a set up that I dont have to change alot of stuff.Thank you
Hi Trey, having a idea what your goals are and how many rounds you might shoot in a given time frame would be helpful to start. It's a tinkerers hobby and there is always another tool to buy.
@@BoltActionReloading I shoot alot every day .Well it's a lot to me.I shooting average 150 rounds a day per rifle.So between my long range 6.5 Creedmoor,6.5 Grendel 150 to 200 rounds.
Thanks for your efforts it has helped me with my reloading. Would just like to share some info with you. I shoot an RPR and MPA in 6.5 creedmoor. Recently I changed my relaoding practices. I use H4350 and Redding competition dies and anneal with AMP. I full length resize, neck size and my last step is a Sinclair Mandrel die. My results have been interesting both guns are at the same fps (close), SD single digit, ES single digit. I think your on the right track neck tension and neck sizing. Thanks again
tony fanzo thanks Tony for commenting, just putting the info out there going it helps somebody. My selfish reasons are to interact with others trying to do the same thing and learn something from them. Glad to hear any input (as long as it's constructive).
I prefer Redding sizing dies (S-Type bushing) and Forster Micrometer seaters. But I actually bought empty Hornady die boxes because they fit my dies for storage since I use the Hornady lock-n-load bushings on my RCBS press.
In hind sight I might have actually selected Redding if I were to try over again. (from what I have read anyway) I do really like the hornady micrometer seating stem and its not expensive. From what I read though Forester for the seating die that might be the way to go since compressed loads do not violate the warranty, I really thought about getting a Forester but from what I could research I really don't understand how to determine if it would struggle with any of the projectiles that I load. That is honestly the biggest reasons that pushed me to the hornady since I knew I could buy the seating stems that I needed. I see you have a nice size channel. I would love to see a video with the forester seating stem in 6.5 creedmoor with a whole lot of different projectiles just to know if there are any problems with certain projectiles.
I'm not an expert on stems, but the reason why I started using Forster is because everyone said that out of the box, it is the best for VLD, and I was using Berger 22cal 80gr VLD for the 600 yard line when I was still competing in NRA/CMP High Power with the AR Service Rifle. So I had the Forster to seat my 600 yard line ammo, then the Redding micrometer die to seat my 77gr BTHP 200/300 yard line ammo (77gr SMK, Lapua Scenar, Nosler CC, etc).
I thought I saw some 6.5 creedmoor stuff on your channel when I checked you out. Some if the 140, 143, and 147 by hornady all needed a different stem than I was using. I would love someone to take apart their dies and show how the bullets fit in the stems. Even the hornady stems are finicky for some of the Berger rounds. I would probably pick one up if I thought I didn't have to worry about wrecking some of the tips on my projectile. BTW I liked the mix on your channel. I mostly focus on 6.5 creedmoor reloading tests on mine but I like your vlogs at the range.
As someone published in the scientific method I am giving strong props for your control of variables- I will look for follow up work relating to accuracy. I've redding fl bushing dies for 223, but I called Hornady and they have no [immediate ] plans to offer the newest custom match grade bushing die set in 6.5 grendel. Knowing that I'm planning on workup with 123 gr SST, your recommendation would be what set?, asking because Hornady doesn't help their sales focus with so many similar names for their sets. Your videos plus purchasing a set of new dimension dies for a small pistol caliber has increased my enthusiasm for hornady. Thanks again for the pragmatic work you've put into this topic Sir.
The shoulders mated to your chamber and I believe Lee likes that so they give extra give to the shoulders. I only resize my necks on my creedmoor unless it's for another rifle then I do a full resize.
You're overworking the press, and doing what you're doing, you're gonna break something sooner or later. There's literally nothing to be gained once you're smashing hardened steel against hardened steel. What shell holder are you using with the lee die? I've had to grind / sand Hornady shell holders up to 15 thou or so to be compatible with RCBS dies, for instance. Some combinations aren't straight up compatible. I've even had the problem with Hornady SH / Hornady dies IIRC. Break out some 400 grit sandpaper and oil it up and go to town on the shell holder. Also, if you're using that brass with only one rifle, it's acceptable (and some would argue desirable) to not push the shoulder back at all, unless you're looking for greater reliability at the expense of consistency.
Thanks for commenting. I will say i agree 95%. In the video I am over camming too far, but I guess I am trying to prove the point in the differences in the die set ups. The shell holder is lee and came with that set. I mention as well that I know that i could grind something down (I think that Redding sells a competition shell holder but it might go the wrong way for this application) I guess my point is that I don't want to grind my shell holder for this set up cause I don't wan't it to affect another caliber that I might use the shell holder on in the future. I just don't want to try and remember what I modified 3 years down the road when I throw a new caliber at my press. I was trying to get across that the lee worked and honestly pretty good. There is a part 2 to this series where I compare load work ups across the 3 die sets As for moving the shoulder, again I agree. But purpose of the rifle comes directly into play. If this was a safe queen, bench rest spotless rifle, of course. Neck size and move on. But in this case it is not my intent. I am listening to the PRS guys and pretty much across the board they say to move the shoulder (ever so slightly) because undoubtedly i will find a piece of sand or dirt and cause myself a problem. To be honest, I bought a neck die and will play around with it a little. In fact, think about subscribing if you not, cause I will probably do a video on it sometime in the future. Again thanks for the comment, and hope you enjoy the channel!
Obviously you don't know that RCBS & Lee dies are made so they only minimally size your cases, then you wonder why you have to mill a few thou off your shellholders. Why I don't buy Lee or RCBS dies.
also, if you did buy the match set of hornady dies and could not get a bushing, you can still use the die because they include an expanding button. its in the box undr the foam square. they put it there in case you need a little more neck tension than what the bushing offer and or so you can still reload should you not have a bushing.
Sorry I completely disagree on this point. Without a bushing the neck does not get make the neck smaller to hold a bullet. The expanding button could increase the ID of new brass, however the die can not properly resize the neck on fired brass to hold a new bullet. This die with no bushing = not able to perform the function that it was purchased for.
also if you trim the neck thickness you need to re measure the new thickness and use that formula for the bushing. going to need more than one size bushing after you alter the brass wall thickness
I had been getting good results with Hornady full length 6.5 Creedmoor dies. I wanted to try the next size die as I have a bolt gun and can fire form the brass. the instructions that came with the die were not helpful. I would tell Hornady to put a link to a UA-cam video. the instructions told me to bring the shell holder up to the die so it was just touching, the to screw it in another 1.5 turns. I lubed the brass lightly with imperial case lube and put the brass though the cycle and found that the brass got crushed. So that seemed lie the wrong way to turn the die and I immediately turned the die the other way one turn. Still got crushed but not as bad. So I opened it up another turn and that seemed better. But the neck only got the top 2 mm. sized and it would not hold a bullet. I could easily push a bullet into the case. To make a long story shorter, I fiddled with it for a whle and stumbled onto to an adjustment that seemed to hold the bullets but did not crush the cases. I tried watching other people doing youtube videos about neck sizing but i guess I could not find a good one. I have up on that after 30 minutes of searching. Good old trial and error seemed to be the best solution. I am eager to take them to the range to see how they do. I am wondering if the neck sized only ammo will be more accurate.
Actually, any standard FL size die will do the job. Bushing dies work for those who want to go that route. The biggest difference in the die sets are bullet seaters. That is where Lee sucks it often seats off the tip of the bullet. Better to seat somewhere near the ogive. I try to use only competition seating dies like Redding or Forster. Lee has a fantastic neck sizing collet die. Redding has a great completion seating die but their standard seating die contacts near the tip and I find it almost as bad as the Lee seating die. I own and use Lee, Redding, Hornady die sets but seat with either Redding Competition Seater or Forster Competiton seater dies. Bullets are least concentric in length, and one will have a better seating length based off a measurement closest to the ogive.
They must of recently started including the micrometer on the seater. I bought this set about 2yrs ago and it didn't come with one and had to purchase it seperatly.
In 308w cal the base of shoulder must be 11,50mm in diameter...well...With hornady full lenght custom grade dies now my firsts resized cases are 11,30-11,35 at the base of the shoulder.....forgot to sharp 308win reamers when my die was produced?😂😭😭😭
Its a set of calipers, you add the hornady headspace gauge kit to it. www.midwayusa.com/product/1012743827/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator
If your using this brass in your rifle only I would only neck size .001 a.003. If you want to shot this out of multiple rifles then bump the shoulder back to factor or Saami specifications.
This is a popular subject for people to disagree on unfortunately. For the style of shooting I intend to do with this gun (PRS) I am realistically looking for a .001-.002 bump, (which I couldn't achieve with the Lee die without grinding on it) so that't why I went to give Hornady a try. I intend to do a video down the road here a little comparing Neck only vs. FL sizing. I understand the applications for both but frankly we all just have to decide for ourselves and live with the decisions that we make. Thanks for commenting, thinks about subscribing I try to post various tests and reviews on a weekly basis.
You can send your Lee sizers back to them and they can take a couple thou off the bottom so you won't have to camover much, did that with my 30-06 Lee sizer, worked great, I'll never buy Lee dies cept for handgun dies.
Hi Jay, I guess for me its not worth sending them back. If I want I can get the brass sized so it functions in my chamber and honestly thats the whole purpose. For someone with a looser chamber this may be a lot more sizing than it is for me. Obviously I have other dies and I am sure between the Collet die and the crimp die I will get my value from the set. The bullet seater, not so much.
Why are you interested in the factory dimensions? Most match shooters size to chamber dimension and try not moving the head at all, after firing, if possible.
Old post but I don’t believe in any way the shoulder problem is a die issue. I used to notice this two times in my reloading. 1. Using factory rounds. The brass has been worked from sheet to case in about 10ish steps, it’s hard by the time we fire that original first round. Back then nobody annealed factory stuff. Go to reload first time and it has no spring back. Even if the expander ball is adjusted properly, then shoulders are too stiff and they don’t spring down and stay that extra .001/.002” 2. After neck sizing 3-4 times and brass is starting to get stiff. Then trying to full length size without annealing. Shoulders would spring back. Solution, save $50-$100 not buying new dies, that’s the first thing. Buy a torch for $10, learn to anneal, anneal, full length size and all problems gone. Then but $40-$90 worth of more pow, primers and bullets! Hornady especially are bad for selling you something that is no better than the competition, then you realize this, but they offer you parts to their dies to make you think this will make the dies better. Never does, just learn your brass and dies and adjust them properly.
HI Crash, A couple things. 1 - You are correct this is an older video. 2 - I am not advocating for people to buy multiple sets of dies. I am showing the rests on a couple of sets so that another person doesn't go buy another die set, hoping to fix the problem. 3 - Even with annealing (I have an AMP) the Lee die doesn't really push the shoulder back enough, You have to remove material from the die or the shell holder. BAR
@@BoltActionReloading I apologize I should have stated something first. You didn’t once say that one is better than the other. You only said what you liked better for you. I wish more youtubers did that. I really enjoy your videos, even though I may not agree with certain things, you get a lot of info out in a short amount of time and we, the viewers, can take what we want from them. I appreciate that. I suppose your video wasn’t the best place to voice my Hornady products issue, but I was/am/have been for the past few years, frustrated with Hornady and their marketing and economic tactics. Once we buy a product of theirs, we then have to go and buy more parts just to make that product work. They are a company and they should be profitable. The better off they are the better off we are through innovation. Here’s my issue though, almost every other company in the industry, fixes their issues. Hornady doesn’t fix theirs, they just sell a person new parts, and convinces a person that they need them when they really don’t. I wish they’d spend less time on engineering part fixes and just focus on making great bullets or products instead of selling us stuff to make their poor products closer in performance to the next brands. A person can make excellent reloads with relatively cheap equipment without having to buy extra stems or bushings. You proved it in your next video, the results were negligible between the dies. Sorry for the rant on your channel..
No issue, Just wanted it clear as you never know who is going through the comments. I don't have a real opinion on Hornady, it all depends on what your looking for and what you think your getting. Digging through the marketing is the biggest struggle, regardless of manufacturer, and some people think your going to get more than they think, very often not the case. I try not to fanboy for any company (though I seem to be accused of being a fanboy for Hornady more recently) just point out what worked and what didn't and what's possible. I tend to favor what I have the most success with the least amount of issues.
Why would you ruin your beautifully fired brass? Your method is stealing a lot of accuracy!!!!! You never want to push back to factory for the same gun....just push it back .001
am not impressed with " match grade" , it seems there is so many things extra to make it work properly and when I seat/set the bullet it pulls the seating stem out and leaves a ring around my bullet
You are totally missing the boat not using the lee collet die..... Sell the hornady stuff and buy a redding body die and a forster mic comp seating die. Shoot them, anneal them, collet neck size them, push the shoulder back about every 4th time. You are wasting so much brass life.
Hi Mike welcome to the channel. While I assume by your comments your not a fan of my methods, I am learning. I am not advocating any particular method, feel free to do what you feel is the right thing to do. I have not done a accuracy comparison yet, I probably will, so if your curious subscribe and sometime I will probably make a video on it. I know this is a "hot" topic for some, but I need to find out for myself. I know a lot of people use the collet die with good luck. I didn't say I would never try it. It takes a lot of time to try and put these videos together and it is impossible to actually make a video very long and actually expect people to watch the entire video. There will be another boat and I will ride that one. I will not become a reloader with 40 years of experience in 2 weeks and don't plan too, but I can't take everyone's word for everything either. We all have to learn for ourselves. In this video I wanted to show people what actually came in the die sets and what they could expect. I think that it does that. Mission accomplished. Hornady actually sells custom seating stems for the bullets that I wanted to shoot so I thought I would give them a try. I could not find any info on how to know what bullets did or did not work well with the forester seating die in 6.5 creedmoor. In other news though I have had one on order for a week and I will probably do a video on it so other people can be more informed on how it works with the wide array of 6.5 bullets that I happen to have in stock. I think it will be interesting, but guess what people with thumbs down that video too. As far as your brass life comment I respectfully disagree, for this hornady brass the failure mechanism is the primer pocket getting too loose. (8-10 firings) In all of the shooting I have done with this brass (pushing the shoulder back .001 to .002) no signs of any problems but primer pockets getting loose. My reloading process is mimicking that which I have read from PRS shooters which with all of the research I have done universally preach full length sizing and bumping the shoulder back .001 to .002 for a bolt gun for this style of shooting. I was not trying to move the shoulder back to factory, though since I show you that my factory measurement is .003 smaller than what my fired value is I can see how you could have that impression.
Its a lot of info I try and get across and the longer the videos are typically the less people watch. Its a hard decision how much to cram in, but I hate to leave stuff out. Hope you liked it anyway.
shouldn't be full resizing...only neck. Your fire forming the brass and for the RPR you want max accuracy...full sizing is going against you in that respect. Just neck size it you'll increase your accuracy. No idea who has been telling you to full size...all the info about reloads of any bolt rifle is neck only. If your having feed issues then you need to identify the issue not just quick fix it by weakening your brass, dropping its usage life and possibly causing you an accident.
Rocko, ever notice when you only neck size, your brass gets really sticky in your seater die? So you've tested for accuracy this NS vs FL? Let's see your results. Ask David Tubb, 11 time world champion if he NS only.
In response to your problem of over camming the press with Lee dies and not getting any shoulder setback, please look at the following from Redding. www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/35-competition-shellholder-sets I have used these with success on 6.5 Grendel cases. It offers a selection of shell holders of different thicknesses to allow the shoulder set back you are looking for. Enjoy your videos. Keep em coming. Thank you
Thank you for the comment. I have actually seen these however I don't think they come in negative sizes only positive which make the shoulder setback less and not more like I was hoping. Hornady loader did a pretty good video on these.
lee will get you a stem for any bullet profile you want. if they don't keep it in stock, they will make one for you. you just have to call and ask. also, why are you fl sizing to factory? if you want the best accuracy just bp the shoulders back enough to chamber without resistence. lastly it's Horn A Dee, not Horn A Day.
Hello, Thank you for the comment. I have been informed that Lee does make custom stems, they cost about $8 a piece and you have to send them a bullet and pay shipping. leeprecision.com/custom-bullet-seating-plug.htm lead time at the time of comment is 4 weeks. The delay and the extra cost kind of ruins the reason why people buy lee dies. (the price) In this video I bump the brass no more than .003" which is in the range of .001-.003, most would refer to this as bump sizing, I guess I refer to this as FL sizing since this would be the "correct" way to full length size your brass. Point is that it was difficult to actually get the Lee die to FL size the brass without modification to the die or the shell holder, Maybe I didn't get this across as well as I was trying too. As far as pronouncing Hornady, I realize it was incorrect and I have tried to fix this in my current videos, you should check some of them out, as I create more content I try to improve.
My lee die was so poor, even after sizing to max head space, the round wouldn't chamber and failed case go- No- go, Ordered custom set which is do in tomorrow. But the Lee is crap. So sad as I did about 30 rounds, before I thought about checking chamber, that locked my bolt on my PA-10. Never had issues with 5.56, but the 6.5 CM is a whole new animal. I need to step up my game.
HI Scott, So far honestly I have been pretty please with both. If you keep in mind that they have to deal with a large number of people that have no idea what they are saying or doing it helps. You can't take everything that people say for granted. The one problem that I had took one photo and an email and they shipped me exactly what I needed. Once they easily understood the problem was on their end they couldn't get me fixed up fast enough. Everyone has their experience though. I will NEVER pay for another leupold product as long as I live, but again a bad customer service experience can certainly harm a relationship. Hope you enjoy the channel either way!
You must be in USA ... They have not even Replied to me .. On where i can Get ELD Match .. Or Replacement Parts for my Lock n Load AP Press ....... . They Ignore Australia . Or it maybe the Australian Hornady wholesalers that are Fkn Useless
So I'm a little perplexed here, and I may be totally out of line but I will propose a food for thought question! To my understanding the reasons for neck sizing 1) to prolong the life of your brass 2) your cartridge when fired expands in the chamber causing the cartridge to conform to your rifles chamber there fore presenting my point. If the cartridge conforms to your rifles chamber why would you need to push the head space back to factory in turn creating the gap between the factory shape of the cartridge and the profile of your rifles chamber which in turn would expend more energy to expand the brass again and also moving the brass back to the shape of your chamber once again. I can understand the neck size part as it would be the portion of the cartridge that supports the projectile there as it must be squeezed closed to hold the bullet. but unless your reloading for semi auto rifles where as you would be full sizing or your sharing the cartridge between multiple rifles I would just leave the cartridge as it was conformed to that rifles chamber in turn expending more energy to the push of the projectile rather than wasting energy pushing the brass diverting that energy toward the bullet. Thoughts on this??? I must admit this is not and original thought on my behalf it is a thought that I discovered in research online forums and as a machinist in profession it made sense to me.
Thank you for your comment and rational question. I truly appreciate you giving me the benefit that I may not be completely crazy. Many do not give me that opportunity. Yes there are reasons and before I get into a complete diatribe on my process the point that people miss is that there are different "style" guns for different folks. This is not a Bench rest rifle, and I do not intend it to be, For Bench rest you would be almost 100% correct (from what I understand of it anyway) except they have perfectly clean chambers, clean very frequently, and I am not sure if they ever shoot more than 5 or 10 shots between rounds in competition. I have never competed (and have no plans too) Though they do actually have to body size occasionally (somewhere far less than a typical bolt gun might need).
So what style of gun is this for then? PRS. (I might actually think this same way for a bolt hunting rifle, but that's for a different conversation) If you research PRS style shooting the overwhelming thing that I find and here on many channels (6.5 guys, 8541 tactical, pan handle precision, just to name a few there are lots more) these guns are ran in less than "clean" environments. It is not impossible for a grain (or 2) of sand to be blowing around and somehow end up in your chamber. If you only neck size you will very likely run into a situation where you can not actually chamber a round if you only neck size. When you have only 90 seconds to shoot 10-12 rounds out to 1000 yards, not having a round chamber ruins your round, if not your day. Everyone that reloads and shoots in these style of matches always recommend full length sizing and bumping the shoulder somewhere between .001 and .002 (this is still not taking this dimension back to Spec but it does give enough space for that 1 grain of sand not to ruin your stage (hopefully) I have seen this recommendation from everyone that shoots this "style" of match. Function is everything. The amount of accuracy lost is not near the concern as loss of proper function of the brass through the rifle.
Also for this particular cartridge (6.5 creedmoor) you need to also understand its weak link. (like every other thing in life too I guess) Which seems to be the primer pocket. Typical failure in hornady brass happens somewhere between 8-12 firings and you can't get a primer to stay in any more. I anneal before I resize (and I have gotten the impression from others even if you don't) the neck / and shoulders never fail first, it seems to always be the primer pocket getting too big. (thus resizing this area having no detriment to the overall case life) I am not saying it is impossible to have a split case, but my reloading process is yet to have one. (for this cartridge anyway) If I was to have this problem, I would certainly evaluate changing my process.
People far to frequently live in their own world and have only one way of thinking. (especially when it comes to reloading) Though it may be correct for one it is not correct for all. I like to explain it like this (when I have the opportunity) Telling someone to only ever neck size for their bolt gun is kind of like telling a construction worker that he doesn't need his truck, and only needs a Prius, or to tell the same guy, you have to have a truck if you work in construction. For the guys that don't carry around materials and just need to get themselves to the job site it would work, but if your the one bringing the studs and the drywall, its hard to do without that truck.
Sorry for the wordy response, but I certainly appreciate your giving me the opportunity to respond. I hope you enjoy the channel. Please feel free to comment on anything you like, I learn a lot from my viewers.
Full disclosure: I have a neck die for this cartridge as well, (Redding) but it won't find its way on to any ammo that I have to 100% rely on for function for a match in this rifle. For a day of experimentation at the range though, absolutely. Thanks again.
Thanks for your response, however I'm not quite sure I follow along with your philosophy. All that aside if the problem is pushing back the neck and taper enough for a smooth chambering here is a little trick that will save you from over camming your vice and pushing your dies. Use your Micrometer or calipers to take an accurate measurement of the overall length of your shell holder. using a stone take .003 to .005 thousandth of an inch off the top of your shell holder being careful to check for parallelism as you go. This is a practice that has been preformed for headspace issues in reloading for many years to solve the issue you are dealing with. Try it, it works like a champ I have done so myself although I am a seasoned machinist by trade. This will save you a ton of aggravation and effort. If you feel you can't do it accurately check your local machine shops the cost to have it done professionally is miniscule and will ensure that it is parallel. If you are worried about damaging your shell holder buy a second holder they are cheap enough to buy to experiment. but believe me you will see it works!
My thoughts exactly Trike GMister
If you neck size only, after a few firings, that shoulder is going to be blown forward quite a bit and closing the bolt will be difficult (tension). This is why setting a full length sizing die to bump the shoulder back .001 to .002" is ideal so you don't have to worry about the increased friction on bolt close.
Not to mention, if you use a case trimmer that indexes off of the shoulder (e.g. Giraud Power Trimmer), you need to full length size so the base to shoulder lengths are consistent.
Thank u for this response, although its a little old, Trike GMister's comment was exactly what I was thinking, but thank u for responding and taking the time to explain.....
I noticed that you are using the same shell holder from one sizing die to another. I have checked the thickness of a series of shell holders and have noticed that they are a different thickness and that is what the die comes into contact with to regulate the amount of setback or more particularly, how far the case actually goes into the die. I too have seen the same issues with Lee resizing dies but now use the same shell holder matched with the same resizing die each time I resize. This has seemed to have fixed the issue in combination with lightly polishing the top of the shell holder to get the correct amount of setback needed and like you are seeing just a few thousands usually does the trick. Hand loading is truly an art and a science.
The problem you are having with the Lee die (I almost promise) is not that it is not pushing the shoulders back but instead as the expander ball is being pulled out, it is pulling the shoulders back out.
Thanks for all of this info and constructive comments! I have a Ruger predator 6.5creedmore (new in the fall) and I am totally new to reloading, but I see all of the advantages of reloading the 6.5. This info is excellent, Thanks again!! ps, I am in upstate NY and it has been a LONG winter!!
+John Shusdock thanks for the comment. Glad you find the info useful. I have lots more content coming on the 6.5 creedmoor. Consider subscribing if you haven't already.
The Lee Die set is all you really need with the exception of a good match grade bullet seater. If you clean the inside of the neck out with a wire brush on a drill you don't even need to lube the case with the neck sizing die. Granted when the case over time gets too hard to lock in with the bolt it will need to be resized with the full length sizer and it will need to be lubed. It may only need a partial sizing to be able to close the bolt on the cartridge without excess effort. More attention needs to be place on the case length that will lengthen after firing. I own a lot of dies and do a lot of reloading with Lee Dies, Hornady Dies, RCBS Dies and even Redding Dies. It doesn't make much difference which ones you are using so long as you have a good bench rest seating die and maybe a factory crimp die for a light crimp. All those measurements off the shoulder with the gauges used are not accurate. The only accurate gauge for checking the shoulder are made by RCBS and they are caliber specific. I know because I own a number of them. The Hornady Gauge used with and insert is only used for bullet seating depth on a cartridge for headspace off the riffling and it is just an approximation at best. It is a nice video with good intentions but a bit flawed. I am not saying Lee Dies are as good a quality as all the others I own, but if they are in good condition at the time you use them they will do the job and make accurate ammunition. Some world records still stand that were shot from ammo made with the Lee Neck Sizing Colet Dies. Some ammo shoots more consistent with a light crimp from a factory crimp die. Not all but many. It gives a more consistent pressure in ignition as well as staking the bullet from possibly being bumped out of center giving it yaw. That can happen when there isn't enough retention on the bullet when seated.
Hi Garry, While a appreciate you commenting I have to say that I think that you largely miss the point of the video. If you are familiar with all brands of dies i guess the video isn't for you. I have other lee dies as well, however this is the most useless lee dies I own. Unfortunately so many people make comments like this and think that their specific reloading application is everyone's reloading application. Every respectable source for PRS reloading (my application) FL sizes every time generally pushing the should back .002 to .003", If you choose not too its completely your choice. Please don't change on my account. The FL die for this simply does not push my shoulder back without sanding the die or the shell holder. My chamber is smaller I guess, and again without equipment modification I can't get the setback I am shooting for.
As for the bullet seating die, its worthless for seating high BC bullets. go watch my die seating stem comparison if you want a better understanding of why I feel this way. 6.5 Creedmoor is gaining popularity right now because its ability to reach out to distance, has low recoil, and there are a lot of newer High BC bullets that lend themselves to that application. Like you mention a good bullet seating die is needed in addition to this set, Something you could learn from watching this video if again you are new to the caliber.
My favorite part about your comment is telling others that my tools are "not accurate". You are correct that the RCBC precision Mic would be a much better tool, except that they don't make one for 6.5 creedmoor at this time. (Please correct me if you can find one, I have looked) If this were 308 that's what I would use for the best results, but a lot of people who are only going to spend $30-40 on a die set aren't spending $55 on the measuring tool for only one caliber either. I don't think its responsible to start talking about tools that they could use that don't exist for the application I am discussing.
Another point is when I purchased both the match and custom set Hornady does the worst job telling you what is in the sets. I try to lay it out as clear as I can to save you some time and money if you are watching videos to help you decide. I appreciate you taking the time to comment but there is good info in here, maybe not for you, but for some there is info in here that I simply couldn't find anywhere else.
Around 00:04:54, talking about pushing the shoulder back to where the factory ammo was: I had a rifle that chambered Hornady Black w no trouble but my reloads were too long to seat easily (AR, had to slam the bolt closed then, sometimes, tap the assist hard). I tool the rifle to a Smith who said it was short-chambered and reamed it a touch. Then it worked with my reloads. 3 other rifles in the same cartridge never gave me trouble with the same resizer over about 5 years and a couple thousand rounds. My point: I think Hornady ammo (at least) was sized a little under SAAMI min to be sure it would chamber in even the tightest chambers. FWIW. I never checked them for that, I wouldn't know if my datum line with my gauge was the same as what the spec goes by. But, 3 chambers by 2 manufacturers worked flawlessly with both Hornady and Lee sizing dies, only one wouldn't accept my resized cases and a Smith said it was short. This was at least 5 years ago and I didn't have a GO gauge to check the chamber. I had the Smith fix the chamber then gave the upper away, can't check it now. YMMV.
Try a different shell holder. The hight of the shell holders vary.
Aren't you suposed to adjust the die down till you get proper Head Space?
Do you have the proper shell holder?
If so, is it defective?
Are you using the shell holder that came with the Lee dies? The guys are set up for the manufactured shell holder. I had to grind the top of my Hornady shell holder on both my 6-5 Creedmoor and my 6.5 Grendel Hornady dies in order to get them back to Sammi spec as verified by a case gauge. While my 6.5 Creedmoor would chamber in my bolt gun it would not load in my gas gun without bumping the shoulder further back than was allowed by the Factory Hornady shell holder
For the custom grade dies, does it also remove the old primer? Looking to get into reloading and am trying to get all the parts I need together, thank you.
Yes the sizing die will have a decapping pin installed
I had the same issue. Shoulder would not move with Lee die for 6.5 Creedmoor, until I annealed the brass. After annealing I was able to set the head space correctly with Lee die. Just FYI. Thanks for the video.
Some reloaders play toooo much. I keep it simple and accurate and it still works.
sand off a couple thousands from the die's bottom....merely hold it down flush using your hand and polish it back & forth using 80grit then 400grit for polish
Better to sand a few thousands off the shell holder
@@woodman39 My thoughts also. That if you make a mistake it cheaper to replace it.
I know this is old but I'm wondering if you lubed your brass...
Yes, I never size without lube.
You don't need to neck turn your brass. You have the Lee neck sizing die that uniforms the thickness of the case neck. Fortune cookie 45 has a video on that die you should watch.
Hey what locknuts are you using on the lee dies please
More than likely the hornady lock rings.
Thanks for putting out a great quality review! I just got that same Hornady match grade set and there is a difference in the seating stems. slip a 140 rdf upside down into each stem, and it bottoms out on one of them, and fits like a glove on the other. the 147/143's are likely that similar long shape.
Keep up the great work!!
+Alex Gavieres thanks for the comment. All said and done I like the set but Hornady didn't do a great job of explaining exactly what it contains.
@@BoltActionReloading Its beyond terrible, in their description and in their marketing materials. I had No idea they came with seating stems till you showed this. Good luck keeping them straight since they aren't marked either ! LOL Hornady is really making me turn my thinking about them around lately.
which headspace insert are you using to measure? I did not see the Creedmoor on the list from Hornady. i also have an RPR that i would like to start reloading for...all i have so far is the Hornady Classic kit, no dies or anything else yet. Looking around for good info on other tools/gear to aquire, thanks.
+lonz73 the parent case for the 6.5 creedmoor is the 308. Same for the 243 Winchester. Looking at Hornady package this would require the use of the d400 gauge. If you want to use the base I would recommend actually getting the Hornady digital calipers. This is the only set that I have seen them line up correctly when they are installed on them. Dies a all about budget and goals. Lee are cheap but work great for the money, but if quality over$ is your concern you can't go wrong with Redding. I am going to start going over my reloading process, but in reality it's going to take some time to produce it and get it out.
Good video for a beginner. Neck bushings are very important, and they are not one size fits all. It will change from one manufacturer to another. Example: Lapua brass if I remember correctly for a 6.5 creedmoor is .290 and Hornady is .288. I would not swear to that being correct on the size but you get the jest. It is very important to get this right. Especially in precision shooting.
case sidewalls resize differently and how far down does it resize
All 3 of the dies I demonstrate are full length size dies. Though the lee set has a neck sizing die I do not demonstrate it in this video. Obviously off of these does are either significantly making contact with the shell holder (Lee) or are at least making some contact with the shell holder.
Have you tries starline brass or the ADG brass? Ive not bought any reloading components yet for 6.5 CM. Im not sure what to get for dies. To me, not that i am that experienced, Lee dies are good but i prefer them for straight walled pistol cartridges or brush gun cartridges like 30-30. If not done much rifle reloading though. When you buy the hornady dies, do they still send you free bullets, and if so do they offer any in 6.5?
+TheOutdoorsman thanks for commenting. I have a video doing a brass comparison where the starline is included. So far my experience is that the lapua or Norma has done the best for me. There are several considerations that you can decide. Loads tend to work best with the LR primers, however the SR primer pockets will hold up much longer than the LR. Best of luck.
I dont reload for it yet. Im just getting data and research right now. Not sure i want to get to crazy on brass cost, I figure get about 7 reloads then toss the brass out. I was reading the ADG brass can go 10 plus loading and was high quality as well. Probably all depends on how hard you push it. If you send Hodgdon a e-mail they will send you a more up to date load data list with some newer bullets and powders like the hybrid 100V, They sent me some data anyway. I was planing on the hornady ELD-X bullets. I will probably start out just using factory loads. Just recently ordered the 6.5 CM, dont have it yet.
What dies did you go with for the 6mm Creedmoor? I’m ready to order a set of dies to get into reloading my 6CM and I’m thinking of getting the RCBS Match Master set. What’s your experience and input? I can’t find much on the equipment side for reloading 6CM
I got Forster dies, they work great.
Bolt Action Reloading thanks!
Have you noticed any difference with the Lee dies now that you have your fancy annealer?
+Benny Bruin thanks for the comment. I don't want to jump to any conclusions, so i have some videos planned to demonstrate this. I have just been working on other stuff. I still haven't been able to get any real shoulder bump even when they are annealed though.
If I bought the hornady custom seating die, what seating stem would I need to load a sierra matchking bullet? Would the stem I need be included with the either the custom or the match?
+BCB the stem you need would come with the match set. (I assume you are taking about the 142gr?) I'm on the road this week but I can check when I get back if you give me the details.
Check the seat and top flange thickness of your shell holders. That's the thickness between where the shell holder sits on the ram and the area where the brass sits in the shell holder, also check the thickness of the flange that holds the brass. If either dimension is to thick it could be hitting the die before the brass is fully sized. I've seen that dimension wander as much as .007". I resized some 308 with a set of RCBS dies with an generic shell holder and those rounds wouldn't chamber so I started measuring. The 308 family is extensive and I own a lot of those calibers and have multiple shell holders and they all vary but I've found the Redding and RCBS to be the shortest and most consistent. If you have to remove a couple thousandths off the top of the shell holder.
For some reason it annoys me when people say "Hornaday" instead of "Hornadee." Anyways..I have the Hornady 6.5 creedmoor dies and I don't seem to have any problem resizing brass and bumping the shoulder back a couple thousandths. I haven't tried seating any of the ELD-X bullets yet so I don't know about the stems yet
+mojo jojo I am horrible about this and I know it. Sometimes bad habits break hard. I just don't have the time to refilm and correct this kind of stuff. I am sure that's where some of my thumbs down come from, but I try to get good info out where I don't find it. Hope you enjoy the channel otherwise
I'm in the market for dies to reload my 3006 cartridges with. I am having exactly the same problem trying to figure out which Hornady die set I should buy, as I already have the Hornady Lock and Load kit. Even on their website, they don't really give enough info. Thanks, your video definately helped me.
+Marius Nortjé glad the video was of some help. Another set to look at is the forster benchrest. They are great dies.
Spending lot of money for not a lot of gain, why would u want to push back the shoulser after fireforming? The better the fit to your rifle chamber to lower the sd because its everytime more uniform.
What's a good case length with hornady 6.5 creedmoore brass to stay between. Seems to come in new around 1.916. I try to stay at 1.915 lowest has been 1.906 thank you for the video
I trim to the book 1.910 pretty much. All the starline I have tried seem to all be short, but otherwise 1.910. BTW if you looking for brass give Peterson a try. I really think it's a fantastic value.
Bolt Action Reloading when you get to 1.920 is it a MUST to trim? Or can you push it to say 1.925 before you have to trim? I know the books say 1.920 is max. For pressure reasons, right? How much of that have you seen, or do you always trim BEFORE you go over 1.920?
You want to make sure it is below that trim value. I usually trim back to 1.910 or something very close.
is your die a neck sizer only or full length die
+Mike Carlson Hornady only makes a bushing die for full length. The neck die they sell is not a bushing die. I called and they will make one for like $200 so I bought a Redding neck only bushing die.
Just curious why you are full length sizing for a bolt gun?
+nickpequignotzj mostly for reliable feeding, etc. I have the Lee neck die and might try it sometime, but so far most things I have seen for the RPR guys are full length sizing the 6.5 creedmoor. I think after time you usually need to full length size anyway, but this is my first bolt gun to reload for.
+moparmadman Ahhhh okay. I never though of that. I always thought that was a semi auto thing. But I'm brand new to reloading. I have a ruger predator in 6.5 that I'll be reloading for eventually
I neck size everything (except for semi autos) Looking at your numbers the Lee die is getting you the best match to your chamber when it comes to FL sizing. Trying to resize down to factory ammo specs is just hard on your brass as those specs don't match the chamber in your rifle. I usually go four reloads on a lot of brass neck sizing then I bump it in a FL die.
Most of the top shooters in the world have went back to full length sizing with greater accuracy. Also if you're going to use the gun in different temperatures you're gonna save yourself alot of headache. The chamber is metal the case is metal. Temperature variations to cause a case to either fit right not fit at all. Too tight and you are looking at pressure problems.
thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for making this video... I ran into the same frustrating issue, that Hornady does not give much info about what their match grade dies really are.... After watching this, i'll definitely be getting a set of them on order, along with a bushing (which I wouldn't have known to order before watching this)
+Jason Lehman thanks for the comment. Your welcome. I was frustrated trying to figure out what is in it and until I got it I didn't know. Hornady tech support is pretty good but sometimes I think they try and answer so quickly that you don't get a full answer or they don't understand your question fully. Compared to anyone else though they are the quickest and if you get something that is wrong they want to fix it.
I just realised, the Hornady Match die set i bought for 6.5Creedmoor, isnt what the picture on the box shows. I pulled the decapping rod out, and it does not have the bevelled bullet shaped neck expander looking part. Its just a straight metal shaft with the decapping pin. Not sure if is also something I need to buy?
+Tony Nagy it was in the accessory slot with the extra bullet seating stem.
OMG..LMAO...it is there in the little corner compartment under a piece of foam.... I feel so dumb.----> Hiding under the reloading bench..... :)
I've had some bad experience with a few Lee dies... Most recently on my Lee 350 Legend set of dies No matter how much I run it through the die it will not fit in m y Lyman case checker.
A factory cartridge goes In it very easily.
I don't normally buy cheap Lee dies.Mostly Whidden,LE Wilson and Triebel.I have a few Hornady.
I've have noticed the inside finish on Hornady Match Grade are much smoother than Custom grade.
Good video.I saw and commented on your video 2 years ago when I first Started reloading.
Good info video...
Ok..my question is for a person (me) just starting out to reload 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 grendel and 223/5.56 what do I need? And what do you suggest.Id like a set up that I dont have to change alot of stuff.Thank you
Hi Trey, having a idea what your goals are and how many rounds you might shoot in a given time frame would be helpful to start. It's a tinkerers hobby and there is always another tool to buy.
@@BoltActionReloading I shoot alot every day
.Well it's a lot to me.I shooting average 150 rounds a day per rifle.So between my long range 6.5 Creedmoor,6.5 Grendel 150 to 200 rounds.
My goals are to be real good and consistant at real long range.Thank you.
Thanks for your efforts it has helped me with my reloading. Would just like to share some info with you. I shoot an RPR and MPA in 6.5 creedmoor. Recently I changed my relaoding practices. I use H4350 and Redding competition dies and anneal with AMP. I full length resize, neck size and my last step is a Sinclair Mandrel die. My results have been interesting both guns are at the same fps (close), SD single digit, ES single digit. I think your on the right track neck tension and neck sizing. Thanks again
tony fanzo thanks Tony for commenting, just putting the info out there going it helps somebody. My selfish reasons are to interact with others trying to do the same thing and learn something from them. Glad to hear any input (as long as it's constructive).
is the match Hornsby with the bushing a neckmor full length seizing die?
+Mike Carlson I will be happy to help you answer your question but honestly I don't understand it.
@@BoltActionReloading i think what he means is. Is the match grade die a full length die or necksizing die.
Full length. Thanks for the translation
@@BoltActionReloading you gotta laugh. When someone lets predictive texting take control but not bother with editing. Thanks.
I prefer Redding sizing dies (S-Type bushing) and Forster Micrometer seaters. But I actually bought empty Hornady die boxes because they fit my dies for storage since I use the Hornady lock-n-load bushings on my RCBS press.
In hind sight I might have actually selected Redding if I were to try over again. (from what I have read anyway) I do really like the hornady micrometer seating stem and its not expensive. From what I read though Forester for the seating die that might be the way to go since compressed loads do not violate the warranty, I really thought about getting a Forester but from what I could research I really don't understand how to determine if it would struggle with any of the projectiles that I load. That is honestly the biggest reasons that pushed me to the hornady since I knew I could buy the seating stems that I needed. I see you have a nice size channel. I would love to see a video with the forester seating stem in 6.5 creedmoor with a whole lot of different projectiles just to know if there are any problems with certain projectiles.
I'm not an expert on stems, but the reason why I started using Forster is because everyone said that out of the box, it is the best for VLD, and I was using Berger 22cal 80gr VLD for the 600 yard line when I was still competing in NRA/CMP High Power with the AR Service Rifle. So I had the Forster to seat my 600 yard line ammo, then the Redding micrometer die to seat my 77gr BTHP 200/300 yard line ammo (77gr SMK, Lapua Scenar, Nosler CC, etc).
I thought I saw some 6.5 creedmoor stuff on your channel when I checked you out. Some if the 140, 143, and 147 by hornady all needed a different stem than I was using. I would love someone to take apart their dies and show how the bullets fit in the stems. Even the hornady stems are finicky for some of the Berger rounds. I would probably pick one up if I thought I didn't have to worry about wrecking some of the tips on my projectile. BTW I liked the mix on your channel. I mostly focus on 6.5 creedmoor reloading tests on mine but I like your vlogs at the range.
As someone published in the scientific method I am giving strong props for your control of variables- I will look for follow up work relating to accuracy.
I've redding fl bushing dies for 223, but I called Hornady and they have no [immediate ] plans to offer the newest custom match grade bushing die set in 6.5 grendel.
Knowing that I'm planning on workup with 123 gr SST, your recommendation would be what set?, asking because Hornady doesn't help their sales focus with so many similar names for their sets.
Your videos plus purchasing a set of new dimension dies for a small pistol caliber has increased my enthusiasm for hornady.
Thanks again for the pragmatic work you've put into this topic Sir.
The shoulders mated to your chamber and I believe Lee likes that so they give extra give to the shoulders. I only resize my necks on my creedmoor unless it's for another rifle then I do a full resize.
Great video and answered my question on the seating stems.
Glad it was helpful.
You're overworking the press, and doing what you're doing, you're gonna break something sooner or later. There's literally nothing to be gained once you're smashing hardened steel against hardened steel.
What shell holder are you using with the lee die? I've had to grind / sand Hornady shell holders up to 15 thou or so to be compatible with RCBS dies, for instance.
Some combinations aren't straight up compatible. I've even had the problem with Hornady SH / Hornady dies IIRC. Break out some 400 grit sandpaper and oil it up and go to town on the shell holder.
Also, if you're using that brass with only one rifle, it's acceptable (and some would argue desirable) to not push the shoulder back at all, unless you're looking for greater reliability at the expense of consistency.
Thanks for commenting. I will say i agree 95%. In the video I am over camming too far, but I guess I am trying to prove the point in the differences in the die set ups. The shell holder is lee and came with that set. I mention as well that I know that i could grind something down (I think that Redding sells a competition shell holder but it might go the wrong way for this application) I guess my point is that I don't want to grind my shell holder for this set up cause I don't wan't it to affect another caliber that I might use the shell holder on in the future. I just don't want to try and remember what I modified 3 years down the road when I throw a new caliber at my press. I was trying to get across that the lee worked and honestly pretty good. There is a part 2 to this series where I compare load work ups across the 3 die sets
As for moving the shoulder, again I agree. But purpose of the rifle comes directly into play. If this was a safe queen, bench rest spotless rifle, of course. Neck size and move on. But in this case it is not my intent. I am listening to the PRS guys and pretty much across the board they say to move the shoulder (ever so slightly) because undoubtedly i will find a piece of sand or dirt and cause myself a problem.
To be honest, I bought a neck die and will play around with it a little. In fact, think about subscribing if you not, cause I will probably do a video on it sometime in the future. Again thanks for the comment, and hope you enjoy the channel!
Obviously you don't know that RCBS & Lee dies are made so they only minimally size your cases, then you wonder why you have to mill a few thou off your shellholders. Why I don't buy Lee or RCBS dies.
Thanks great video very informational!
New to all this and your video's have helped alot. Thank you very much
Glad you enjoy your content!
also, if you did buy the match set of hornady dies and could not get a bushing, you can still use the die because they include an expanding button. its in the box undr the foam square. they put it there in case you need a little more neck tension than what the bushing offer and or so you can still reload should you not have a bushing.
Sorry I completely disagree on this point. Without a bushing the neck does not get make the neck smaller to hold a bullet. The expanding button could increase the ID of new brass, however the die can not properly resize the neck on fired brass to hold a new bullet. This die with no bushing = not able to perform the function that it was purchased for.
Hornady has a video that will show you how to get proper neck tension so you do it right
also if you trim the neck thickness you need to re measure the new thickness and use that formula for the bushing. going to need more than one size bushing after you alter the brass wall thickness
+JB I agree I haven't tuned any of the necks yet in this video.
I had been getting good results with Hornady full length 6.5 Creedmoor dies. I wanted to try the next size die as I have a bolt gun and can fire form the brass. the instructions that came with the die were not helpful. I would tell Hornady to put a link to a UA-cam video.
the instructions told me to bring the shell holder up to the die so it was just touching, the to screw it in another 1.5 turns. I lubed the brass lightly with imperial case lube and put the brass though the cycle and found that the brass got crushed. So that seemed lie the wrong way to turn the die and I immediately turned the die the other way one turn. Still got crushed but not as bad. So I opened it up another turn and that seemed better. But the neck only got the top 2 mm. sized and it would not hold a bullet. I could easily push a bullet into the case. To make a long story shorter, I fiddled with it for a whle and stumbled onto to an adjustment that seemed to hold the bullets but did not crush the cases. I tried watching other people doing youtube videos about neck sizing but i guess I could not find a good one. I have up on that after 30 minutes of searching. Good old trial and error seemed to be the best solution. I am eager to take them to the range to see how they do. I am wondering if the neck sized only ammo will be more accurate.
Actually, any standard FL size die will do the job. Bushing dies work for those who want to go that route. The biggest difference in the die sets are bullet seaters. That is where Lee sucks it often seats off the tip of the bullet. Better to seat somewhere near the ogive. I try to use only competition seating dies like Redding or Forster. Lee has a fantastic neck sizing collet die. Redding has a great completion seating die but their standard seating die contacts near the tip and I find it almost as bad as the Lee seating die. I own and use Lee, Redding, Hornady die sets but seat with either Redding Competition Seater or Forster Competiton seater dies. Bullets are least concentric in length, and one will have a better seating length based off a measurement closest to the ogive.
I find new hornady comes in around 1.916. Thank you. I will order some Peterson
They must of recently started including the micrometer on the seater. I bought this set about 2yrs ago and it didn't come with one and had to purchase it seperatly.
Its kind of why I made the video. Even Hornady doesn't tell you on their website or on the box even. Thanks for commenting.
In 308w cal the base of shoulder must be 11,50mm in diameter...well...With hornady full lenght custom grade dies now my firsts resized cases are 11,30-11,35 at the base of the shoulder.....forgot to sharp 308win reamers when my die was produced?😂😭😭😭
ok cool thx i have the redding but looking for another and saw your video and am interested in hornady
Isn't that a cartridge overall length gauge not a headspace gauge?
Its a set of calipers, you add the hornady headspace gauge kit to it. www.midwayusa.com/product/1012743827/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator
If your using this brass in your rifle only I would only neck size .001 a.003. If you want to shot this out of multiple rifles then bump the shoulder back to factor or Saami specifications.
This is a popular subject for people to disagree on unfortunately. For the style of shooting I intend to do with this gun (PRS) I am realistically looking for a .001-.002 bump, (which I couldn't achieve with the Lee die without grinding on it) so that't why I went to give Hornady a try. I intend to do a video down the road here a little comparing Neck only vs. FL sizing. I understand the applications for both but frankly we all just have to decide for ourselves and live with the decisions that we make. Thanks for commenting, thinks about subscribing I try to post various tests and reviews on a weekly basis.
You can send your Lee sizers back to them and they can take a couple thou off the bottom so you won't have to camover much, did that with my 30-06 Lee sizer, worked great, I'll never buy Lee dies cept for handgun dies.
Hi Jay, I guess for me its not worth sending them back. If I want I can get the brass sized so it functions in my chamber and honestly thats the whole purpose. For someone with a looser chamber this may be a lot more sizing than it is for me. Obviously I have other dies and I am sure between the Collet die and the crimp die I will get my value from the set. The bullet seater, not so much.
hornady made a video says subtract a total of .004 3 then 1 more for spring back
+JB do you have a link?
Why are you interested in the factory dimensions? Most match shooters size to chamber dimension and try not moving the head at all, after firing, if possible.
I try to give as much info as possible for those who are interested. Nobody moves the head, you typically bump the shoulder back .002".
Old post but I don’t believe in any way the shoulder problem is a die issue. I used to notice this two times in my reloading.
1. Using factory rounds. The brass has been worked from sheet to case in about 10ish steps, it’s hard by the time we fire that original first round. Back then nobody annealed factory stuff. Go to reload first time and it has no spring back. Even if the expander ball is adjusted properly, then shoulders are too stiff and they don’t spring down and stay that extra .001/.002”
2. After neck sizing 3-4 times and brass is starting to get stiff. Then trying to full length size without annealing. Shoulders would spring back.
Solution, save $50-$100 not buying new dies, that’s the first thing. Buy a torch for $10, learn to anneal, anneal, full length size and all problems gone. Then but $40-$90 worth of more pow, primers and bullets!
Hornady especially are bad for selling you something that is no better than the competition, then you realize this, but they offer you parts to their dies to make you think this will make the dies better. Never does, just learn your brass and dies and adjust them properly.
HI Crash,
A couple things.
1 - You are correct this is an older video.
2 - I am not advocating for people to buy multiple sets of dies. I am showing the rests on a couple of sets so that another person doesn't go buy another die set, hoping to fix the problem.
3 - Even with annealing (I have an AMP) the Lee die doesn't really push the shoulder back enough, You have to remove material from the die or the shell holder.
BAR
@@BoltActionReloading I apologize I should have stated something first. You didn’t once say that one is better than the other. You only said what you liked better for you. I wish more youtubers did that. I really enjoy your videos, even though I may not agree with certain things, you get a lot of info out in a short amount of time and we, the viewers, can take what we want from them. I appreciate that.
I suppose your video wasn’t the best place to voice my Hornady products issue, but I was/am/have been for the past few years, frustrated with Hornady and their marketing and economic tactics. Once we buy a product of theirs, we then have to go and buy more parts just to make that product work. They are a company and they should be profitable. The better off they are the better off we are through innovation. Here’s my issue though, almost every other company in the industry, fixes their issues. Hornady doesn’t fix theirs, they just sell a person new parts, and convinces a person that they need them when they really don’t. I wish they’d spend less time on engineering part fixes and just focus on making great bullets or products instead of selling us stuff to make their poor products closer in performance to the next brands.
A person can make excellent reloads with relatively cheap equipment without having to buy extra stems or bushings. You proved it in your next video, the results were negligible between the dies.
Sorry for the rant on your channel..
No issue, Just wanted it clear as you never know who is going through the comments. I don't have a real opinion on Hornady, it all depends on what your looking for and what you think your getting. Digging through the marketing is the biggest struggle, regardless of manufacturer, and some people think your going to get more than they think, very often not the case. I try not to fanboy for any company (though I seem to be accused of being a fanboy for Hornady more recently) just point out what worked and what didn't and what's possible. I tend to favor what I have the most success with the least amount of issues.
Why would you ruin your beautifully fired brass? Your method is stealing a lot of accuracy!!!!!
You never want to push back to factory for the same gun....just push it back .001
am not impressed with " match grade" , it seems there is so many things extra to make it work properly and when I seat/set the bullet it pulls the seating stem out and leaves a ring around my bullet
I use the Lee dies for pistols only. Their rifle dies just do not do a g9od job. I use Hornady and RCBS for all my rifle brass.
You are totally missing the boat not using the lee collet die.....
Sell the hornady stuff and buy a redding body die and a forster mic comp seating die.
Shoot them, anneal them, collet neck size them, push the shoulder back about every 4th time. You are wasting so much brass life.
Hi Mike welcome to the channel. While I assume by your comments your not a fan of my methods, I am learning. I am not advocating any particular method, feel free to do what you feel is the right thing to do. I have not done a accuracy comparison yet, I probably will, so if your curious subscribe and sometime I will probably make a video on it. I know this is a "hot" topic for some, but I need to find out for myself. I know a lot of people use the collet die with good luck. I didn't say I would never try it. It takes a lot of time to try and put these videos together and it is impossible to actually make a video very long and actually expect people to watch the entire video. There will be another boat and I will ride that one. I will not become a reloader with 40 years of experience in 2 weeks and don't plan too, but I can't take everyone's word for everything either. We all have to learn for ourselves.
In this video I wanted to show people what actually came in the die sets and what they could expect. I think that it does that. Mission accomplished. Hornady actually sells custom seating stems for the bullets that I wanted to shoot so I thought I would give them a try. I could not find any info on how to know what bullets did or did not work well with the forester seating die in 6.5 creedmoor. In other news though I have had one on order for a week and I will probably do a video on it so other people can be more informed on how it works with the wide array of 6.5 bullets that I happen to have in stock. I think it will be interesting, but guess what people with thumbs down that video too.
As far as your brass life comment I respectfully disagree, for this hornady brass the failure mechanism is the primer pocket getting too loose. (8-10 firings) In all of the shooting I have done with this brass (pushing the shoulder back .001 to .002) no signs of any problems but primer pockets getting loose. My reloading process is mimicking that which I have read from PRS shooters which with all of the research I have done universally preach full length sizing and bumping the shoulder back .001 to .002 for a bolt gun for this style of shooting. I was not trying to move the shoulder back to factory, though since I show you that my factory measurement is .003 smaller than what my fired value is I can see how you could have that impression.
I'm a fan of what you are doing...
WHEW!!! my head is spinning!!
Its a lot of info I try and get across and the longer the videos are typically the less people watch. Its a hard decision how much to cram in, but I hate to leave stuff out. Hope you liked it anyway.
Sure did!
Thanks
shouldn't be full resizing...only neck.
Your fire forming the brass and for the RPR you want max accuracy...full sizing is going against you in that respect.
Just neck size it you'll increase your accuracy. No idea who has been telling you to full size...all the info about reloads of any bolt rifle is neck only. If your having feed issues then you need to identify the issue not just quick fix it by weakening your brass, dropping its usage life and possibly causing you an accident.
Rocko, ever notice when you only neck size, your brass gets really sticky in your seater die? So you've tested for accuracy this NS vs FL? Let's see your results. Ask David Tubb, 11 time world champion if he NS only.
In response to your problem of over camming the press with Lee dies and not getting any shoulder setback, please look at the following from Redding. www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/35-competition-shellholder-sets
I have used these with success on 6.5 Grendel cases. It offers a selection of shell holders of different thicknesses to allow the shoulder set back you are looking for.
Enjoy your videos. Keep em coming.
Thank you
Thank you for the comment. I have actually seen these however I don't think they come in negative sizes only positive which make the shoulder setback less and not more like I was hoping. Hornady loader did a pretty good video on these.
lee will get you a stem for any bullet profile you want. if they don't keep it in stock, they will make one for you. you just have to call and ask. also, why are you fl sizing to factory? if you want the best accuracy just bp the shoulders back enough to chamber without resistence. lastly it's Horn A Dee, not Horn A Day.
Hello, Thank you for the comment. I have been informed that Lee does make custom stems, they cost about $8 a piece and you have to send them a bullet and pay shipping. leeprecision.com/custom-bullet-seating-plug.htm lead time at the time of comment is 4 weeks. The delay and the extra cost kind of ruins the reason why people buy lee dies. (the price) In this video I bump the brass no more than .003" which is in the range of .001-.003, most would refer to this as bump sizing, I guess I refer to this as FL sizing since this would be the "correct" way to full length size your brass. Point is that it was difficult to actually get the Lee die to FL size the brass without modification to the die or the shell holder, Maybe I didn't get this across as well as I was trying too. As far as pronouncing Hornady, I realize it was incorrect and I have tried to fix this in my current videos, you should check some of them out, as I create more content I try to improve.
shorten the shell holder up by 0.002" with some sand paper... way cheaper than the hundreds of dollars you spent attempting to do the same thing🙄
My lee die was so poor, even after sizing to max head space, the round wouldn't chamber and failed case go- No- go, Ordered custom set which is do in tomorrow. But the Lee is crap. So sad as I did about 30 rounds, before I thought about checking chamber, that locked my bolt on my PA-10. Never had issues with 5.56, but the 6.5 CM is a whole new animal. I need to step up my game.
......... From what i have Found . Hornady have amazing Product but Customer Service Sucks
HI Scott, So far honestly I have been pretty please with both. If you keep in mind that they have to deal with a large number of people that have no idea what they are saying or doing it helps. You can't take everything that people say for granted. The one problem that I had took one photo and an email and they shipped me exactly what I needed. Once they easily understood the problem was on their end they couldn't get me fixed up fast enough. Everyone has their experience though. I will NEVER pay for another leupold product as long as I live, but again a bad customer service experience can certainly harm a relationship. Hope you enjoy the channel either way!
Lucky You im Having trouble getting Parts for my Press and 6.5 Projectiles .. No Help at all from Hornady
I've found Hornady has outstanding customer service.
You must be in USA ... They have not even Replied to me .. On where i can Get ELD Match .. Or Replacement Parts for my Lock n Load AP Press ....... . They Ignore Australia . Or it maybe the Australian Hornady wholesalers that are Fkn Useless