VW Mk1 Rabbit Golf Jetta Scirocco CIS fuel pump replacement and fuel system overview
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2022
- A rambling, repetitive video about changing the fuel pump on my 1984 GTI.
Fuel systems and components can be dangerous and highly explosive, these videos are not a complete guide and are intended to be for entertainment and documenting the procedures I find useful.
If you find these videos helpful I appreciate your support! buymeacoffee.com/nigelpage - Авто та транспорт
Just bought a 83 rabbit 1.7 gonna be fun to play with. Thank you for all the good info
Hi Nigel, thanks for the great video. You may not have 10 million views on this video but I will tell you, the level of appreciation from the viewers who need to see this video far surpasses the 10 million mark. We really, really appreciate you sharing your hard-earned knowledge with us - THANK YOU! I am hunting down an issue with '86 Cabriolet 1.8L. Upon startup if I give it any gas at all it will choke and want to sputter out. When I got it 2 months ago, it would fire up quickly but have the gas/choking issue until warm. I changed fuel filter and the small rubber air hoses that run to and from the intake manifold to diaphrams and to the black burper under the hood etc.. It seems that since then, the first start in the morning is a lot longer and harder, as if it has been starved of fuel during the night. Initially, At first I thought maybe vacuum leak was responsible but now I think I have to look else where. The Idle speed booster valve works, we can hear it click on if rpms drop below 750. However, once warm the car runs like a charm, never missing a beat but it needs about 10 minutes to get there first. Other mentions, the cluster heat temp gauge and fuel level gauge are stuck at zero. Maybe, if you have a minute, you could give me an idea as to where you'd look first if you had this challenge on your hands. Either way, thanks again Nigel.
I am not sure where start on responding to this. Likely a combination of many things, check that the 5th injector of your intake is firing briefly when you are start the vehicle from cold, as well the cold start air valve on the back of the intake manifold should be open when cold and close fairly quickly, the temperature sender on your coolant neck could be suspect, the control pressure regulator on the front of the engine is what sends or cuts off the electrical signal to the fifth injector and warm up air valve. I believe that year still uses air shrouded injectors and that vacuum line could be damaged, it is really hard to diagnose cold start on these CIS cars without literally going through and function testing or measuring every component. Thank you for the nice comment I am pretty poor at responding the more complicated the question, I will try to do more videos on the specific function of each item in a CIS fuel system in the future. Good luck with the rest of the diagnosis, cheers!
@@nigel-Rollercam-channel Hi Nigel, thanks for the detailed reponse to my question. When late fall came along, I parked the car in storage. Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. Now that spring is here, I'm back at it. Last week, I rebuilt the Control Pressure Regulator but that didn't change anything. My next step is to check the 5th injector, cold start air valve and temperature sender. I'll keep you posted as to how this goes. Thanks again, cheers! Edit: I found the 5th injector to be clogged/non-functionnal. I will swap in another and see what I have then.
@@muchgreatness7497 It never ends, hopefully that solves the problem, I tend to repair things by what I see and hear which is my learning style, some other channels on UA-cam are more empirical and utilize pressure testers and so on. It may be wise to see what other solutions and measurements via fuel pressure testing gear that can be used to further assist in optimizing your CIS fuel injection system. I tend to go through everything and clean and restore which often solves most problems. As well each issue can be somewhat unique to the neglect and environment the car has been exposed to and deteriorated in.
@@nigel-Rollercam-channel Found it Nigel. It was a missing o-ring on the pressure release valve. Replaced the missing one and she strated right up, good, strong idle upon cold start. Thank you very much for your help.
@@muchgreatness7497 Your very welcome although I did not really do much, I don't often have much success assisting in diagnosing things remotely but I am glad you were thorough and found the issue. Enjoy the summer hopefully no more issues will sideline your enjoyment!
there is a lot of knowledge in this video and very helpful, don’t have a bentley or hanes and my mk1 was originally a cis system but i have swapped an aba into it and have been having vapor lock issues when warm
Great video I have a yellow 81 rabbit convertible that has been sitting for ten years it needs a fuel pump hopefully I can get it running soon
Super film bardzo pomocny❤
Very informative, thank you.
God i wish there was an acces hole for the fuel tank in my scirocco as well
Great video!!!!
Slowly getting into a 1985 Scirocco project. A couple of feelings of regret.
I can relate to that, I have some serious problems with collecting these cars and their associated parts. Hopefully it goes smoothly!
Hi Nigel hope your well brilliant video. I have a uk mk1 golf sport-line Gti 1992 one of the last .. the problem I’m getting is when driving the car at a constant pace you can feel the car ever so slightly dropping on and off power like a heart pulse from the engine I’m thinking 🤔 fuel pump ? Not electric because my lights are fine at night. When driving it hard I don’t notice it any clue 🕵️♂️ to wear I should look ? Car starts fine and car fuel pressures at the engine are fine to. it feels like if you was to accelerate on and off gently all the time …
Thank you, sorry for the delay. It's hard to diagnose without being present and i am not an expert. I would start with potential vacuum leaks, then fuel filter and fuel pump relay and checking to see if you much of a voltage drop at the fuel pump especially after it has been driven for abit. I have seen some fuel pump relays that are so hot to the touch that they have melted the fuse box. The rest of the electrical was functioning fine just corrosion over time and build up on the fuel pump relays electrical contacts caused resistance to electrical flow. I am also wondering about your frequency valve which is tied to your oxygen sensor feedback. I am curious if I have even come close to finding a solution sometimes I am close other time I am way off and it's an unusual problem. Hope you find a resolution, Cheers!
Have a good new year mate
@@waynegardner2495 You as well, Thank you!
hi nigel, great vid, is there any chance that you could give me some advice about how to stop the fuel pump on my mk2 golf gti 16. valve fom permanently running when ignition is on,i am having to completely rebuild the engine i think because it seized up on me because petrol was getting in the oil,which i think was caused by said pump ,i have had three relays in ,no change could it be the back filter thats causing it .cheers
If I remember correctly the fuel pump relay is tied to the tachometer or coil signal, it primes briefly when you turn the key on then will will shut of if the engine does not start. I am curious if there is a short or other 12v signal keeping the relay from turning the fuel pump off. It also sounds like the injectors are leaking fuel, there shouldn't be fuel leaking from the injectors unless the CIS air metering plate is lifted by vacuum at idle or under throttle. Hopefully main and rod bearings are all that is required to get you going and there is no cylinder wear or valve guide damage. I could be close to a solution or way off, hopefully I don't send you on a wild goose chase, Good Luck!
Great Video! We have a White 1984 VW GTI that's been in the family for 30 years. Got it running two weeks ago. It's been in storage for a long time. Hope to drive it a little this Summer. Question for you. I see in your video you have a Down Pipe in the back seat floor. Did you purchase it recently? And where? Thanks Alan. Love watching your Videos!
Firstly, good eye, secondly thank you for watching and letting me know that you enjoy these videos. Tertiary to that I have not seen one outside of a manual before and it was purchased by Eurowrench a local shop to me who had bid on the inventory of German motor car a VW shop in Port Moody with some history that closed down a few years ago. It is made by Ernst and has the original sticker on it indicating it replaces the toilet bowl style down pipe part number 171 253 091 E. I have not seen a dual downpipe style for this type of exhaust manifold. Good luck with getting your white 1984 GTI on the road these are so much fun to drive! Cheers!
Thanks, Nigel!
Hello. Where do you buy your copper washers? Most auto suppliers just look at me like i’m crazy. Is there an industry that uses these (other than Bosch)? Like HVAC? Can’t find them.
I am not sure where you are located. Most automotive parts stores are biased towards Domestic parts as well as parts for vehicles from this century hence your issue. I have included some links to amazon copper and rubber bonded sealing washers, aluminum could work as well. Be sure to measure what you need as sometimes the assortment packs can be missing certain sizes. I have not used these so I can not comment on quality. I would suggest pelican parts for something that is better quality www.pelicanparts.com/byb-fischer-plath . As well if you have a repair shop that works on older European cars in your area, ask if they are open to selling parts to you, I have a good relationship with Eurowrench in Maple Ridge where I live. Arizona Autohaus is another option www.autohausaz.com/pn/007603-008109 .
Definitely pick up some cheap calipers to to insure you get the the inside diameter that you need, outside diameter and thickness are not as critical but aim for something as close as possible. Hope this helps, sorry for the delay in responding.
Here are some Amazon links
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08FYFC4VR/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_8?smid=A3I3F6AMEI0AZU&psc=1
www.amazon.ca/Glarks-300Pcs-Sealing-Washers-Assortment/dp/B07DPMNGZT/ref=pd_bxgy_sccl_2/146-6665685-8675011?pd_rd_w=ZCZi9&content-id=amzn1.sym.93ae3f3f-3555-4971-a952-df8053b1d375&pf_rd_p=93ae3f3f-3555-4971-a952-df8053b1d375&pf_rd_r=5WPTZEAV0SS56MBV5AEG&pd_rd_wg=LEQrn&pd_rd_r=da1faf17-2178-495a-a01f-219c500a8a50&pd_rd_i=B07DPMNGZT&psc=1
This is a great video, I'm having problems with starting my 1980 Mark 1 Rabbit only after its hot and been sitting for about 10 minutes. I've replaced the fuel injectors and a fuel accumulator as it was leaking. No problem with cold starts and driving if fine. Do you think I should replace the check valve on the fuel pump, or if that was faulty would it be hard to start when cold as well. Rock Auto has a Bosch 69430 fuel pump that looks like has the check valve with it, might buy the whole thing because its hard to find just the valve, let me what you think< thank you.
It sounds like a leak down issue, could be check valves at the fuel pump and/or filter. Possibly leak down at your injectors causing a vapor lock situation. I may be way off as well. I hope the video is useful, I tend to go without measuring tools and work by intuition and trying to understand how these items work together. It may be wise to pick up the Fuel pressure gauges to see what the residual pressure is at during hot starts. Thanks for watching I appreciate the kind words. Hopefully you you are up and running reliably for the summer, Thank you for watching!
Hi. I went through this recently. I was resistant to thinking it was check valve. Replaced it and problem solved.
Hi I have 87 vw scirocco 16v and the in line fuel pump went started with buzzing really loud and stalking to end up almost completely giving up once I got home did a haul fuel pump new in tank fuel pump and then inline fuel pump and at first it was buzzing a lot first install after 10 minutes of driving and ultimately stopped starting got it home with my truck but realized I might have not tightened down the fuel lines and I did replace some inlet and the hose to the accumulator with some new fuel lines that I just cut to size after re installing the buzzing quiet downed quite a bit but it’s still buzzing louder than the originally before it the pump went and tried to take down my alley and after giving it some juice in first it died what am I doing wrong after I installed today wasn’t leaking any fuel from any parts I connected
If there’s some way we could have a conversation person to person that would be great as I have a short time frame as I want to get it running properly so I can take it to my graduation in a week
I did order a new pump to accumulator hose with the fittings from mk1auto but I’m not sure if that will change anything/ and or if it’s going to come in time
Hey there, sorry for the delay. I was thinking about how to respond to the questions you have left for me. I really cannot be sure exactly what is causing the issue with your new pump but any change in the sound or pitch of the fuel pump is normally caused by contamination or some other resistance to flow.
I would check your fuel tank as well as the in tank primer pump plus the in tank primer pumps filter screen. As well make sure any of the fuel hoses you replace are actually rated for fuel injection pressures which in this case exceed 40 psi and top out just under 80 psi. During the process of inspecting the inside of the fuel tank closely inspect the fuel filler neck at the top. It receives a lot of spray and debris from the passenger side rear tire to the point where after 30 plus years that spray has essentially wet sanded the top of the filler neck where it is hard to see if there are pin holes or any thing bigger that allows a short cut for that debris to end up inside of an other wise pristine fuel tank.
Lastly verify that you are not seeing any significant voltage drop at the fuel p[ump with the car running, check that the voltage at the battery with the alternator charging it is within a volt or so of what you are seeing at the fuel pump. The only other potential issue that I can think of is sometimes the baffles and tubes in the tank rust out or become disconnected and cause fuel starvation below half to a quarter of a tank. Even in new cars I like to fill the tank once it gets to about a halfway to reduce the strain on the pump and reduce the possibility of the pump ingesting any particulate that inevitably ends up in fuel tanks from dirty storage tanks at fuel stations.
I hope that helps and that you were already able to solve this. The 1987 1.8L 16 valve has a more complicated fuel injection system with idle and full throttle switches plus a knock sensing ignition system but none of those things should be causing the issues that you are having currently. As well I am assuming that when you refer to the inline pump that it is the external pump outside the tank and not the in tank pump. Normally when one fuel pump is faulty I recommend replacing both at the same time to reduce the chance of chasing unrelated gremlins.
I've got an 84 cabriolet. Got the replacement fuel pump and filter from auto zone. The fuel pump they sent doesn't have the right size opening for the banjo bolt. Ever run into this issue?
I have not however parts accuracy and quality has dropped precipitously since the movement of production off shore. Even locally produced products from North America have been mislabeled or in the wrong box I check everything and either bring calipers to verify dimensions or the old part and check every port, orifice and threaded item for burrs, distortion and accuracy. NAPA, Pelican parts, FCP Euro and Rock Auto seem to be decent in the US if that helps. Auto zone, Pep Boys etc are decent for domestic but often get the wrong parts for older German vehicles, good luck with the repair
@@nigel-Rollercam-channel thanks for the guidance. Like an idiot I got them from auto zone online. The check valve has different threads.
@@treychastain4686 I definitely don't get this stuff right all the time it has been a 25 year learning process and I'm not independently wealthy yet, or likely ever! So good German parts and their associated prices vs just getting the car on the road with something cheaper, the quality and service life difference is not always apparent. I am digressing since your issue is simply an incompatible part. Check out my strut mount video where I bought cheap strut mounts from Taiwan that failed almost immediately, you don't need to watch the whole thing just the evidence of the poor quality rubber, Cheers! ua-cam.com/video/ITVOgq8mcCA/v-deo.html
Very helpful video, thank you. How did you know you needed a new fuel pump, was it not working at all? Our 1984 Rabbit Convertible (Wolfsburg/German) runs beautifully for 15 minutes, then the fuel pump starts a louder buzz, 5 more minutes and the whole thing shuts down and it might run 5-10 more minutes after a short wait and re-start. Poring through the Bentley and Haynes manuals and internet for clues to this, any thoughts anybody?
Your symptoms are pretty similar to what took my 1984 GTI off the road, that change in pitch or noise of the fuel pump indicates failure and/or a cog from collapsed or degraded rubber hoses potentially in combination with a contaminated or rusty fuel tank or fuel filler neck. The increase in the noise of the fuel pump is the first clue that a fuel pump of any type as well as these high pressure CIS fuel pumps are compromised. hope that helps. It is possible that something else like a clogged fuel filter could be the culprit but at this junction it would be wise to inspect and replace the fuel filter, fuel pump and the fuel feed hose from the tank to the fuel pump. Depending on production year you could have an in tank pump too. I would pull the fuel sender under the back seat to inspect the tank, if it has 3 wires and 2 hoses going to the sending unit then your 1984 Cabby definitely has an in tank pump which should be replaced at the same time. I recognize none of this is easy or cheap, Cheers!
@@nigel-Rollercam-channel Thanks Nigel! Yes 'we' changed the fuel filter (before I found your video so no detailed inspection) and since this behaviour seems to pop up in 30C+ weather, we also replaced the fan switch temp sensor in rad, thermostat, water pump, all 4 parts together under a hundred bucks Canadian, plus oil and filter for fifty bucks. I learned lots, for example: the difference between the radiator ("water") temp and temp indicator for 'oil' by the shifter and our original owners manual specifies 15W40 for weather above about 65F, who knew? This is a daily driver to work so hoping to get it rolling soon.
ps: definitely fuel pump and accumulator is external to tank, pump seems warm not hot to touch, output tube also warm not hot I did not try to measure outlet tube temp. Seems fuel pump replacement/system inspection is reasonable next step, cheaper than a new ride anyhow.
@@phenej Good luck with the work, sounds like have a good handle on what comes next. I run Motul 15w50 semi synthetic in most of my older cars year round including my 1993 Audi V8. The trend to 0w20 is for fuel economy not engine protection and as you know the best recommendation is from your owners manual in relation to average outside temperature. Cheers!
How can I talk with you about my 1987 vw golf gl
Why does mine have a analog clock instead of a tac???
As long as the instrument cluster is original then it is just the trim level of Rabbit that you have, The GTI was the top with availability of virtually every option, I do not remember all the different trim levels of Rabbit but on a descending scale options were removed on less expensive models, the tachometer, auxiliary gauges and sunroof as an example. Enjoy your new ride, regardless of spec they are alot of fun to drive, Cheers!
What service manual is that?
The manual I am referring to is a manual from Bentley publishers, they tend to be the go to for VW and Audi manuals with great documentation of factory procedures
whitch relay for fuelpump you have used?
i have de same car in the netherlands but nothing is available.
433 906 059 is the part number on mine, not sure what year you have, early Mk1 fuel pump relays have a fuse on top