My best experience with sound proofing theater rooms was with staggered studs, rock wool insulation cut to fit snugly, and then two thicknesses of drywall with accoustic sealant in between the layers. Using two thicknesses of drywall blocks more frequencies. A combo of 3/8 and 5/8 was the best.
While both drywalls have same density they have different resonance frequencies so maximum waves are reflected from the top substrate to the lowet layers and dissipated into heat in the bounce back and forth process
Hey, great video. I loved your first one. The main flaw in this test is that you didn’t seal the layers you were testing. In the first video you did this by screwing everything together. You might be surprised by some of the differences in results if you clamped the materials to the top of the box. I would also recommend putting the mic on the dB meter directly in front of the material for the most accurate reading. Re: Green Glue: it’s a completely different substance than caulk or sealant. It gradually expands between the layers and creates a damping layer similar to the rubber you used. It takes about 30 days for this to happen, so you would have to buy a tube of real green glue and prepare those layers in advance to test how effective it is. Re sound source: if someone is thinking about what materials to use for a home theater, workshop, music studio, etc bass frequencies will be the top concern because they are the hardest to absorb. It’s more complicated to test the full spectrum, but you would find each material absorbs different frequencies at varying amounts. The stiffer materials will generally do a better job with bass frequencies. Last consideration: soundproofing is a result of the whole system. The test you’re doing here can help with picking materials for the walls, and is a great primer for anyone doing research. Just a caution that windows, doors, HVAC are a lot more complicated and have their own unique requirements. I’m a big fan of the videos you’ve done, and I think there’s not enough proper testing on UA-cam, so thank you for putting in the time and effort. My comments are not intended to be negative, just an FYI about some of the limitations of how the results from your testing can be applied.
High density fibercement top layer of 1300kg/m3 decoupled with a sublayer of osb or mlv or a undercarpet nonwoven felt would bring the best results for low frequency airborne noise coming from down below, dense board reflects waves passing through the felt while felt dissipates reflected waves energy into heat. This top dense layer reflection and medium/light dense amorph broad freq. spectrum dampeners are used in professional grade panels under hardfloor soundproofing
@@asencyel That's helpful - But there's still a lot I don't quite understand about all of this - So many people saying so many different things. More mass, more air gaps, more rockwool... And there's so much more to it
Thank you for the work and results. Good clean setup and no nonsense work flow. Well done. If you go for another round consider making a top frame from, eg., double 3/4" ply, with the internal window the same as the sound cavity.. Four carpenters clamps to hold the frame, test sample and sound box together and that should remove any serious doubt about samples not lying flat, etc. One general principle I was taught is that sound proofing needs density. Fluffy stuff will work but you need a lot of it to get enough mass. Your results go a long way towards confirming this advice.
I'm not going to complain about you doing all this hard work and providing it to us for free, thank you. One additional thing that would be useful would be a price for the materials, perhaps in a dollars per square foot unit. Then you could do a bang for your buck metric, would would be a helpful metric when making a decision. I bet the drywall solutions would really shine then.
Very interesting. The main thing I will add/critique here is that larger sheets of drywall/MDF/plywood will have more resonance and tend to vibrate at lower frequencies. I discovered these issues when I was in the process of soundproofing my 4'x 6' bedroom window from outside noise and neighbors (i.e. cars passing by the outside alley blasting loud bass music). I have to do this every summer when the rowdies come out of hibernation. I've discovered that smaller pieces of drywall and plywood do not resonate as much as one large piece did. It's also easier on my back to install it in smaller sections. I seal it all with rubber weather striping and acoustic calking. The result... much less resonance/vibration at low frequencies. I've learned a lot over the last few years from simple trial and error. I'm still in the process of improving it. I've gotten greedy and will take any dB reduction I can get.
This really helps a lot!! Most of the time you hear people either say - more mass or more rockwool. Or somehting inbetween, like rockwool within drywall. But after watching this video, you really get an idea of how much more there is to it! Just the rubber inbetween drywall did so much! Just adding drywall makes it worse sometimes, it seems. I'm still a little confused by how well the sonopan on it's own worked. Much less mass and density, but still such great results!
Some acoustic glue might also be helpful instead? There are several alternatives for green glue, it seems. My guess is that, especially on walls, you need to have some pressure from the drywall against rubber for vibrations to cancel out / to let the drywall not be a resonator on it's own. But not so much that it's too stiff (The right amount of pressure is difficult to figure out for rubber and probably also difficult to build). Maybe the glue would be a replacement for this without any pressure needed?
@@KirmesRuf6 As long as you can prevent the drywall from vibrating, it will work. The air gap between the window and the barrier is very important, the larger the gap the better the results. You have to use rockwool in the cavity to prevent echo and reverberation. I recently made another barrier using 1/16" lead sheets glued to the plywood and that works even better (very heavy though). My window is now more sound proof than my exterior house wall.
Great test, thanks for sharing! I've personally got R-13 fiber, 1" foam, then 5/8" drywall. I was mostly worried about insulation, but it does an amazing job of sound proofing as well. Given your test, I might add another layer of drywall, but it seems like the difference wasn't that substantial. I also can't help noticing that doing just about anything was better than nothing. It's a shame your meter wasn't able to get a good reading, but 130 db -> 100-90 is a pretty amazing drop.
Thanks so much for this! I was convinced that mdf was going to be the winner due to its weight and density and I was shocked that drywall came up ahead! Currently working on soundproofing a room and this definitely helped, thanks!
Perfect! I am curious if it was possible to make sound proof panels that are made of fingertips? At least putting MY fingertips in my ears works great anyway?
The speaker was actually a better test because it covered a broader range of frequencies. A quick way to differentiate the noise quality instead of just quantity is a frequency sweep + cheap measurement mic. Room EQ Wizard is free software that makes the process really easy.
Outstanding effort! A few suggestions for you; - cheap to utilize undercarpet felts, could they be a better alternative for the branded nomwoven material you got? - fibercement boards having aroune 1300 kg/m3 density would be worth trying with this setup - avoiding resonance of the box both with the table and the speaker itself it would be wise to use needle/pin legs under a plarform to carry box and another one carrying the speakers, just like shelf type speaker stands/studio monitor stands have right under them - putting an adequate weight to make sure top test layers dont have any micro air gaps just like a real subfloor treatment would have - and lastly, please edit a much longer video version so that we can keep it looping and earn you some extra adbucks! Your effort and very clean demonatration deserves so much more compensation! Cheers
Your channel is the best…I don’t know why, but if you have a video release. I watch it before anyone else. Maybe it’s the dense information easily conveyed…??? I don’t know. But just wanted to say good job.
As far as I understand and my experience in setting up a studio in my house has taught me, what has helped me the most to isolate both the sound that comes in from outside and to reduce the volume of the sound that can be transmitted to my neighbors is the sum of different materials and therefore densities, including air, mineral wool, and 2 layers of drywall. so I think that high-density mineral wool may be what can give you the best results with a layer of plywood or drywall.
Im lucky, I found owning an old brick home built in the 1940s is the best soundproof. My friends have a brand new built house, and you can literally hear everything outside, they are always getting complaints from neighbors just for their TV. My house you can blast the 7.1 surround sound with sub woofer, step outside, and barely hear it in the yard, let alone in a neighbors yard.
It would be intersting to know if you get the same results for a lower db emision, for example to use a speaker at almost the lower volume. It looked like you got rid of almost 30db, so if you produce a 30db it should be silence
I read OSB is a bit better than plywood for soundproofing. It is heavier at the same thickness. There is also cement boards which are heavier and more dense than both woods and than drywall. And then there is porcelain (there are large sheets the same size as drywall) which is as dense as MLV. Comparing the same thickness always. A cement board (15mm or more if available) glued with porcelain, would be very heavy and IMO more effective than 4 layers of drywall (probably even if they had green glue or carpet glue). Then there is steel and lead of course.
Please make a video dealing with low frequencies (loud bass), because this is what most people have problems with these days. You would get millions of hits too. It would be fantastic if you could test 1/16" lead sheeting glued to plywood and drywall.
I found this really surprising. I just renovated my basement with safe and sound insulation, strapping, sonopan, and 1/2" drywall. The results were less than desirable, it mutes the sound a bit, mostly talking, but foot steps or things dropped on the floor above, the difference is hardly noticeable. A bit of a disappointment for the money spent. I believe my biggest issue is the air ducts are an air penetration I can't remove.
remova os dutos de ar e vede as paredes. abra a porta 10 a 20 minutos por dia com um ventilador super potente com a vazão necessária ou duas vezes ao dia no maximo. faço isso e traz uma diferença muito boa para o isolamento.
That scare me cause I just did that. Next step is the ceiling. I do read that ceiling noise, specially impact, it's not doing much. Reason is the joist are so big that the sound travel easily. To block that, you do that on the flooring side. But what about noise going up, how much do you hear in the room above VS before?
You may be able to line the inside surfaces of the ducts, with soft rubber matting (maybe mouse pads), or some other absorbent material. The other thing that may help... is to hang a few boards of stacked plywood, about 3 inches under the vent (maybe using bungee cords, or rubber strapping). In this way... any sound that runs down the vent... will be partially bounced back into the vent... after it hits the Plywood. Additionally, some foam might help diffuse any remaining noises... yet the foam should still allow for air to move through it. You will likely have to change the foam out every year or so... as it gets clogged up with dust (washing it might work too). They make a car Undercarriage rubberized spray that also might work for lining a vent. However... I have no idea if there would be a long term off-gassing / smell. You could spray a small section of cardboard, and let it sit in the house... to see if the smell remained for a long period of time or not. As for your choice of materials... The Sonopan really isnt enough to stop very loud noises, IMO. It would be best to add one more layer of Drywall. The stuff is very dense, and should reduce the remaining noise.. maybe by 40% more. Also.. another idea, is to extend the vent, in a maze like pattern, inside of a well insulated box... similar to what is shown in this videos test box. The maze like pathway, will help to diffuse and absorb sounds, as the sounds try to bounce off of each internal wall. By the time the air / sounds come out of the other end of the box... there should be little sonic wave energy left (yet the air should still be flowing freely).
Lab tests conducted in the early 2000's have concluded they are not much different. Rockwool had slightly better attenuation on the lower frequencies, but only in the 60-100hz range.
Be advised, the horn frequency has A LOT to do with the results of your testing. Massive materials like 5/8 drywall are better at medium frequency asborbtion so the horn doesn't get affected as much as other materials.
Some audiophile speaker cabinet builders use what they call constrained layer damping. “Typically a viscoelastic or other damping material, is sandwiched between two sheets of stiff materials that lack sufficient damping by themselves.” -Wikipedia
Why is the rubber sandwich working the best with the 1/2 drywall? I assume it stops some of the resonance caused by the drywall and the 5/8 inch drywall just happens to resonate more with the horn frequency, for example? Really tricky to calculate which combination would be best
And for the sonopan sandwich, I could imagine the side leakage causing it being less efficient as well? Or is the rubber just helping more with resonation cancellation?
The box should have sat on something like neoprene pads on the concrete floor. Having it on a table with other test material on the side would have vibrated the table with two variables. Also, the decibel meter should have been on a separate tripod or something pointing right on top and not to the sides where there could be some porous openings causing differences.. Just a thought.
You should leave air space between your materials to allow the sound waves to die down while adding sound absorption materials on the inside parts of the air pockets to also absorb extra sound. Also, the materials touching allows for sound vibration to travel through them. The best way is for the materials to not touch each other.
Do an ASIC miner (Antminer S9) with ventilation, or just a soundproof box with ventilation. I'm not sure about this test, it feels like there was too many air leaks. I feel like this test should have been more impressive.
I am not from canada. I am from europe. We dont get sonopan here. I have a huge base noise. I can get plywood. Any ideas of insulation panels that i could instal inside and or also outisde of the house? 😊
I don't know if you can get it in the UK, but try 1/16" lead sheets glued to 3/4" plywood. Worked very well for me blocking out loud bass music. It's going to be very heavy though. Don't forget to leave a nice (3-6") air gap in between and fill the cavity with rockwool.
Great Video ! Thank you for sharing. Apex Soundproofing requires materials with HIGH density, such as Rock Wool, or even lead. I would love to see you trying these materials, and you may want to revisit the the box itself, since I don't believe you have sufficient soundproofing... At any rate, great video, and thanks again. Keep up the good work mate :)
For best results in sound proofing irregular surfaces are needed in order to reduce resonance / echo effects. If you were to simply drill some holes in the first layer of the plywood sheet and keep the second flat, you would see a major improvement over what you have now. It seems counterintuitive but it will work.
Erm. So that last peice of plaster board you routed out. I'd argue that invalidated all the results. Well invalidate is a bit harsh but thats just not a great way to build a sound chamber. Tbh I'd try putting the meter inside the box and horns outside an repeat. Remember how sound travels. Vibrations.
That is definitely a good idea. In terms of my method of testing being scientific, no its not, but totally invalidated results, also no. These results are still useful to draw comparisons from.
I'm thinking you have to separate the different layers possibly with spacers because the material itself is conducting the sound from one side to the other. In reference to your last video as an example, did you notice how the 1/2" drywall by itself reduced by 22.9 db? So, hypothetically, if you built a box within a box and separating the two with maybe little squares of sonopan as spacers, that could potentially reduce by almost 46db. The only issue is that drywall doesn't cancel out every single frequency but I'm getting ahead of myself..
That's a really interesting idea - I kept reading about leaving air gaps, but others say fill them up with something. Do you know what's actually better, by now? It's probably about decoupling, which means less direct contact would be better. Then again - Why do people use decoupling mats / sheets to cover the whole floor instead of just some porous, non stiff material placed sparingly beneath a floating floor? Or would it make not much of a difference, if the material is like rockwool?
my issue with this test is frequencies. Mass vinyl is good for low frequencies. the other materials mid to high frequencies. Mass vinyl sandwiched all the way around 18 mm acoustic drywall. 15db+22db (2mm) and 26db (3mm) and 29db at 4mm reduction. The issue with all of it is having an internal room, disconnected from the outer walls. Ideally the outer walls are acoustically sealed externally for max DB reduction of 65DB.
MLV doesn't do much for loud frequencies below 125hz. Sandwiching it between drywall does help lower the resonant frequency of the walls. Lowering the resonant frequency as much as possible is what needs to be done to achieve the best sound attenuation from outside noise coming in.
u should try cotton, i saw a video, that show how cotton, or others organic fabric are better than any synthetic materials for sound damp, i need to find it back. i can't remember the name of the chanel.
Cotton batt is only slightly better than rockwool. Rockwool is only slightly better than fiberglass, but for the lower frequencies. Above 100hz they're all pretty much have the same transmission loss.
Haven't watched this yet (watching this now), but pleeeease tell me you tested mass loaded vinyl (MLV). Everyone overlooks this, and it literally fully stops sound.
I stapled MLV to plywood and lined my metal workshop, and rockwool in the ceiling. I can run any of my powertools in my workshop at 3am, and my wife doesn't hear a thing.
@@LovePrincess-nh9hx I've ordered several rolls of it from Amazon. The brand I've gotten was "Soundsulate". It is heavy AF, and found that it was best applied with staples. The plastic cap nails just ripped under its own weight.
@@KirmesRuf6 I've found nothing better, nor do I think I would need a better solution. Can't hear any of my saws or planer or compressor or anything running from outside of my shop.
Ther is a material which seems like you didn't consider on both tests... EPDM Rubber, a 5mm thick one (5kg/square meter (1250kg/cubic meter) should give you (alone) average 25dB of absorbtion, but not all frequencies gets the same tamed by the same amount, bass frequencies are much difficult to treat. there is a product called TopSilent (made by an italian company) but I believe you can find comething similar in any country.
I think your box was leaking sound from layers not being airtight and I believe it was also leaking sound from the bottom which invalidates the entire test. For example stacking multiple layers of drywall should make a big difference but in your test it barely did anything, with that logic stacking 10 layers won't do anything when in reality it should practically make it completely soundproof unless it's ridiculously loud like 160 dB. Another criticism is only using one type of sound, in which case it's high pitch noise which is infamous for being really easy to soundproof, it even falls within STC rating. Something like sub bass and bass noise (20-250 Hz) would be a better test because it's very difficult to soundproof and requires decoupled walls with multiple layers of drywall. I would like to see a V3 of this test with addressed criticism.
I would think, that lid that was madeon the box would be bypassingall the sound proofing and allowind sound transmission directly out the edges of the lid. Maybe replace the lid with a more non transmissable / vibrating substance, so the sound proofing is being tested rather than the lid effects + sound proofing /
It's too bad you didn't include rockwool insulation. I am hoping to see what a normal house build would look like. I.e. plywood sheathing, which is the exterior of the house, followed by R22 rockwool insulation, followed by sono pan, then drywall. Can you try that? Of course this isn't taking into account whether the siding is wood, vinyl or hardi board and on top of that, alot of homes are going into energy efficiency with exterior rockwool insulation (because I too just had this done with a R6) or foam boards, which I think would drastically reduce those annoying car horn sounds and traffic. I am just trying to figure out if sono pan would be worth it or not.
One suggestion I know I made on the last video that maybe was missed... An air gap between your insulation helps as well! When I started working from home during the pandemic, we built a soundproof office, and we basically framed out two walls with an air gap in between. It's been great!
Air is not a soundproofing at all, it's an insulation if and only its none moving air. If the air move and travel, it's not insulating anything (it's also why pink fiberglass must not be compress, it's all the air bubble inside the materials that help with heat transfer). Soundproofing require masse and air have none. You could have done the samething without leaving the air gap and it would yield the same result. The thing is what you did to create that air gap created soundproofing, but it's not the air that's doing so. In fact, air is the enemy of soundproofing cause it allow the noise wavelength to move freely.
@@jean-sebastienfrenette5169 wrong. If you had 2 layers of drywall stacked together , that would isolate less than those 2 layers separated by an air gap, and the greater the gap the greater the transmission loss. That is basic soundproofing: Mass-Air-Mass (or sometimes called Spring instead of Air as in adding absorbing material which is better)
Moving blankets might help with dampening, absorption and vibration, but fairly similar to what insulation batts give you. Air gap and decoupling are most important for maximum sound attenuation.
This would be very welcome with more interesting materials, that actually make up most of a construction, not just the finishing plates, which hardly do anything … rockwool and PIR would be a lot more interesting
Pl accousti seal is not green glue at all. It's not for the samething. It is a sealant, you use it to seal the perimeter all around compared to green glue that you use 2 tube for 4x8 sheet. It's not at all a good test.
I don't think its an accurate test to just throw the pieces on top. In a real scenario, the sound proofing will be nailed down, or secured in some way which would add an additional level of protection. Since its not secured down, the horn itself is so loud it would probably cause the panels on top to vibrate which would allow noise to escape around the edges. and you have the sound detection device right at the edge too, it should be opposite the sound proof layer you're testing. the sound proofing material should be between the the horn and sound measuing device.
Low frequency resonance is the main issue with soundproofing. Mids and highs are much easier to attenuate. Canadian lab tests from the early 2000's show that air space and decoupling (separate wall with 3"-6" air gap) makes a huge difference in sound attenuation. The larger the air space, the better the attenuation, especially the lower frequencies. Mass is a key factor as well. Obviously you want the most mass for the least amount of money ~ i.e. double 5/8" drywall with a dampener in between. Specific carpet glues work just as well as green glue, and are a LOT cheaper.
@@JP5466 Correct. Also filling the air cavity with absorbing material will help compared to the same space being empty. Depending on how big, the density of the material will matter more or less. The greater the gap, the less dense material it needs to be (and it can be any of your choosing, doesn't have to be rockwool or fiberglass). Number 1 is mass. Number 2 is space between masses (decoupled or even better non touching very important). Number 3 is absorption. Density of mass also matters (as mentioned, lead and steel and to a way lesser extent, porcelain and MLV, will be better for low frecuencies than wood, drywall, etc., even if weight is matched).
@@segundacuenta726 To your point about air gaps... I recently made a window plug for my basement window. Window is 24"x48". I glued 1/2" cork all around the top, sides and bottom of the window sill. The plug is made with 1/8" lexan plexiglass, 3/4" plywood (frame only) and 1/2" cork (gasket) and no insulation at all. The window sill is very deep, which gives me a 15" air gap. When I place the plug in the window, loud bass from passing car stereos is practically inaudible and loud 4th of July fireworks are 90% attenuated. After many trial and errors attempts at soundproofing this window, this is the best result I've ever achieved.
@@JP5466 Very nice. Since the air gap is so large, perhaps there is no need or even further noticeable benefit of thicker pane or even going for glass (since polycarbonate is half the weight of glass). In many cases though if the air gap is way smaller, thicker heavier panes would be needed. Even glass is better for soundproofing than polycarbonate, the poly is so much better for an outerlayer (wont be broken into pieces like glass, that's why its used in shields and booths).
parabéns amigo mas o teste esta enviezado. voce nao vedou as camadas de drywall, apenas colocou uma sobre a outra. Todos os dados captados pelo decibelímetro foram inúteis. Não existe isolamento sem vedação. ⚠️⚠️⚠️
Does anyone noticed how much work this guy did to make a 6 minutes amazing content?
My best experience with sound proofing theater rooms was with staggered studs, rock wool insulation cut to fit snugly, and then two thicknesses of drywall with accoustic sealant in between the layers. Using two thicknesses of drywall blocks more frequencies. A combo of 3/8 and 5/8 was the best.
Thx for sharing. 2 thicknesses? rather than 2 layers of 5/8?
While both drywalls have same density they have different resonance frequencies so maximum waves are reflected from the top substrate to the lowet layers and dissipated into heat in the bounce back and forth process
Hey, great video. I loved your first one. The main flaw in this test is that you didn’t seal the layers you were testing. In the first video you did this by screwing everything together. You might be surprised by some of the differences in results if you clamped the materials to the top of the box. I would also recommend putting the mic on the dB meter directly in front of the material for the most accurate reading.
Re: Green Glue: it’s a completely different substance than caulk or sealant. It gradually expands between the layers and creates a damping layer similar to the rubber you used. It takes about 30 days for this to happen, so you would have to buy a tube of real green glue and prepare those layers in advance to test how effective it is.
Re sound source: if someone is thinking about what materials to use for a home theater, workshop, music studio, etc bass frequencies will be the top concern because they are the hardest to absorb. It’s more complicated to test the full spectrum, but you would find each material absorbs different frequencies at varying amounts. The stiffer materials will generally do a better job with bass frequencies.
Last consideration: soundproofing is a result of the whole system. The test you’re doing here can help with picking materials for the walls, and is a great primer for anyone doing research. Just a caution that windows, doors, HVAC are a lot more complicated and have their own unique requirements.
I’m a big fan of the videos you’ve done, and I think there’s not enough proper testing on UA-cam, so thank you for putting in the time and effort. My comments are not intended to be negative, just an FYI about some of the limitations of how the results from your testing can be applied.
High density fibercement top layer of 1300kg/m3 decoupled with a sublayer of osb or mlv or a undercarpet nonwoven felt would bring the best results for low frequency airborne noise coming from down below, dense board reflects waves passing through the felt while felt dissipates reflected waves energy into heat. This top dense layer reflection and medium/light dense amorph broad freq. spectrum dampeners are used in professional grade panels under hardfloor soundproofing
@@asencyel That's helpful - But there's still a lot I don't quite understand about all of this - So many people saying so many different things. More mass, more air gaps, more rockwool... And there's so much more to it
Awesome video as always, thank you.
Below is a comprehensive list of everything you did wrong:
I am adding the few things they missed here:
Thank you for the work and results. Good clean setup and no nonsense work flow. Well done.
If you go for another round consider making a top frame from, eg., double 3/4" ply, with the internal window the same as the sound cavity.. Four carpenters clamps to hold the frame, test sample and sound box together and that should remove any serious doubt about samples not lying flat, etc.
One general principle I was taught is that sound proofing needs density. Fluffy stuff will work but you need a lot of it to get enough mass.
Your results go a long way towards confirming this advice.
I'm not going to complain about you doing all this hard work and providing it to us for free, thank you. One additional thing that would be useful would be a price for the materials, perhaps in a dollars per square foot unit. Then you could do a bang for your buck metric, would would be a helpful metric when making a decision. I bet the drywall solutions would really shine then.
Very interesting. The main thing I will add/critique here is that larger sheets of drywall/MDF/plywood will have more resonance and tend to vibrate at lower frequencies. I discovered these issues when I was in the process of soundproofing my 4'x 6' bedroom window from outside noise and neighbors (i.e. cars passing by the outside alley blasting loud bass music). I have to do this every summer when the rowdies come out of hibernation. I've discovered that smaller pieces of drywall and plywood do not resonate as much as one large piece did. It's also easier on my back to install it in smaller sections. I seal it all with rubber weather striping and acoustic calking. The result... much less resonance/vibration at low frequencies. I've learned a lot over the last few years from simple trial and error. I'm still in the process of improving it. I've gotten greedy and will take any dB reduction I can get.
This really helps a lot!! Most of the time you hear people either say - more mass or more rockwool. Or somehting inbetween, like rockwool within drywall.
But after watching this video, you really get an idea of how much more there is to it!
Just the rubber inbetween drywall did so much!
Just adding drywall makes it worse sometimes, it seems.
I'm still a little confused by how well the sonopan on it's own worked. Much less mass and density, but still such great results!
Some acoustic glue might also be helpful instead? There are several alternatives for green glue, it seems. My guess is that, especially on walls, you need to have some pressure from the drywall against rubber for vibrations to cancel out / to let the drywall not be a resonator on it's own. But not so much that it's too stiff (The right amount of pressure is difficult to figure out for rubber and probably also difficult to build). Maybe the glue would be a replacement for this without any pressure needed?
You could probably use any kind of glue that stays flexible. Though the heavier, the stiffer, probably. Too stiff isn't good either.
@@KirmesRuf6 As long as you can prevent the drywall from vibrating, it will work. The air gap between the window and the barrier is very important, the larger the gap the better the results. You have to use rockwool in the cavity to prevent echo and reverberation. I recently made another barrier using 1/16" lead sheets glued to the plywood and that works even better (very heavy though). My window is now more sound proof than my exterior house wall.
@@JP5466 Thanks! That sounds fantastic - Maybe drilling 1 or 2 holes into the middle of the dry wall could also help to cancel out vibrations?
I bet your family/neighbors freaking love you for this...
Don't be silly, they love him for his good looks and stylish footwear.
It does not matter to me I am deaf, but I like your work you and your family has a great Christmas
Great test, thanks for sharing! I've personally got R-13 fiber, 1" foam, then 5/8" drywall. I was mostly worried about insulation, but it does an amazing job of sound proofing as well. Given your test, I might add another layer of drywall, but it seems like the difference wasn't that substantial. I also can't help noticing that doing just about anything was better than nothing. It's a shame your meter wasn't able to get a good reading, but 130 db -> 100-90 is a pretty amazing drop.
Thanks so much for this! I was convinced that mdf was going to be the winner due to its weight and density and I was shocked that drywall came up ahead! Currently working on soundproofing a room and this definitely helped, thanks!
Super concise, well edited, and clear presentation for a well executed scientific test! Super helpful and informative, thank you
Perfect! I am curious if it was possible to make sound proof panels that are made of fingertips? At least putting MY fingertips in my ears works great anyway?
The speaker was actually a better test because it covered a broader range of frequencies. A quick way to differentiate the noise quality instead of just quantity is a frequency sweep + cheap measurement mic. Room EQ Wizard is free software that makes the process really easy.
Fascinating results, dude! 😃
Thanks a bunch for all the tests!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Merry Christmas and happy new year!
Thanks. Ditto
Outstanding effort! A few suggestions for you;
- cheap to utilize undercarpet felts, could they be a better alternative for the branded nomwoven material you got?
- fibercement boards having aroune 1300 kg/m3 density would be worth trying with this setup
- avoiding resonance of the box both with the table and the speaker itself it would be wise to use needle/pin legs under a plarform to carry box and another one carrying the speakers, just like shelf type speaker stands/studio monitor stands have right under them
- putting an adequate weight to make sure top test layers dont have any micro air gaps just like a real subfloor treatment would have
- and lastly, please edit a much longer video version so that we can keep it looping and earn you some extra adbucks! Your effort and very clean demonatration deserves so much more compensation! Cheers
Your channel is the best…I don’t know why, but if you have a video release. I watch it before anyone else. Maybe it’s the dense information easily conveyed…??? I don’t know. But just wanted to say good job.
Thanks. I try to cut the bullshit as much as possible.
As far as I understand and my experience in setting up a studio in my house has taught me, what has helped me the most to isolate both the sound that comes in from outside and to reduce the volume of the sound that can be transmitted to my neighbors is the sum of different materials and therefore densities, including air, mineral wool, and 2 layers of drywall. so I think that high-density mineral wool may be what can give you the best results with a layer of plywood or drywall.
Im lucky, I found owning an old brick home built in the 1940s is the best soundproof. My friends have a brand new built house, and you can literally hear everything outside, they are always getting complaints from neighbors just for their TV. My house you can blast the 7.1 surround sound with sub woofer, step outside, and barely hear it in the yard, let alone in a neighbors yard.
Thanks so much for making this video. Very well thought out and scientific. You saved me a lot of time! 👍
It would be intersting to know if you get the same results for a lower db emision, for example to use a speaker at almost the lower volume. It looked like you got rid of almost 30db, so if you produce a 30db it should be silence
I am going with 1 inch plywood + 1cm of old carpet (cotton wool). Cotton wool is known for great absorption over wide band, superior to glass wool.
I read OSB is a bit better than plywood for soundproofing. It is heavier at the same thickness. There is also cement boards which are heavier and more dense than both woods and than drywall. And then there is porcelain (there are large sheets the same size as drywall) which is as dense as MLV. Comparing the same thickness always. A cement board (15mm or more if available) glued with porcelain, would be very heavy and IMO more effective than 4 layers of drywall (probably even if they had green glue or carpet glue). Then there is steel and lead of course.
Please make a video dealing with low frequencies (loud bass), because this is what most people have problems with these days. You would get millions of hits too. It would be fantastic if you could test 1/16" lead sheeting glued to plywood and drywall.
Bass trapper in the corner bro
@@DominikV235 For outside loud bass music coming into my bedroom? That won't do anything.
Love the video. Would have also loved to see a double drywall test!
I did 2 layers of half inch and 5/8?
I found this really surprising. I just renovated my basement with safe and sound insulation, strapping, sonopan, and 1/2" drywall. The results were less than desirable, it mutes the sound a bit, mostly talking, but foot steps or things dropped on the floor above, the difference is hardly noticeable. A bit of a disappointment for the money spent. I believe my biggest issue is the air ducts are an air penetration I can't remove.
remova os dutos de ar e vede as paredes. abra a porta 10 a 20 minutos por dia com um ventilador super potente com a vazão necessária ou duas vezes ao dia no maximo. faço isso e traz uma diferença muito boa para o isolamento.
That scare me cause I just did that. Next step is the ceiling. I do read that ceiling noise, specially impact, it's not doing much. Reason is the joist are so big that the sound travel easily. To block that, you do that on the flooring side.
But what about noise going up, how much do you hear in the room above VS before?
Did you decouple the basement ceiling from the floor above
like my comment says, I strapped the ceiling the break the connection of the joists to the sound proofing.@@Brucey69
You may be able to line the inside surfaces of the ducts, with soft rubber matting (maybe mouse pads), or some other absorbent material. The other thing that may help... is to hang a few boards of stacked plywood, about 3 inches under the vent (maybe using bungee cords, or rubber strapping). In this way... any sound that runs down the vent... will be partially bounced back into the vent... after it hits the Plywood. Additionally, some foam might help diffuse any remaining noises... yet the foam should still allow for air to move through it. You will likely have to change the foam out every year or so... as it gets clogged up with dust (washing it might work too).
They make a car Undercarriage rubberized spray that also might work for lining a vent. However... I have no idea if there would be a long term off-gassing / smell. You could spray a small section of cardboard, and let it sit in the house... to see if the smell remained for a long period of time or not.
As for your choice of materials... The Sonopan really isnt enough to stop very loud noises, IMO. It would be best to add one more layer of Drywall. The stuff is very dense, and should reduce the remaining noise.. maybe by 40% more.
Also.. another idea, is to extend the vent, in a maze like pattern, inside of a well insulated box... similar to what is shown in this videos test box. The maze like pathway, will help to diffuse and absorb sounds, as the sounds try to bounce off of each internal wall. By the time the air / sounds come out of the other end of the box... there should be little sonic wave energy left (yet the air should still be flowing freely).
Could it be that the plywood was so good due to less resonation compared to drywall (Even though weight is less) ?
Would be cool to see same tests done with these setups and fiberglass and safe and sound added.
Lab tests conducted in the early 2000's have concluded they are not much different. Rockwool had slightly better attenuation on the lower frequencies, but only in the 60-100hz range.
Round 2
FIGHT!
Be advised, the horn frequency has A LOT to do with the results of your testing. Massive materials like 5/8 drywall are better at medium frequency asborbtion so the horn doesn't get affected as much as other materials.
Liked ans subscribed. Will need all the information fir my new two storey building to be started in a months time.
Some audiophile speaker cabinet builders use what they call constrained layer damping. “Typically a viscoelastic or other damping material, is sandwiched between two sheets of stiff materials that lack sufficient damping by themselves.” -Wikipedia
Really miss your build videos!
It's been hard to find time with moving into the new house and doing renovations but I really want to start building more soon.
I totally get it. Best of luck to you!@@DIYBuilds
I wish you would test MLV and rockwool
Have you tried Sorbothane? It's crazy expensive though.
Would the voltage drop in the battery make a difference on the horn volume? Could be a variable.
I agree but I measured with a multimeter and it stayed constant.
I didn't think the horns would make much of a dent, but I wasn't sure how long you ran them in total.
Probably 5 minutes between all test over 3 days.
Why is the rubber sandwich working the best with the 1/2 drywall? I assume it stops some of the resonance caused by the drywall and the 5/8 inch drywall just happens to resonate more with the horn frequency, for example? Really tricky to calculate which combination would be best
And for the sonopan sandwich, I could imagine the side leakage causing it being less efficient as well? Or is the rubber just helping more with resonation cancellation?
The box should have sat on something like neoprene pads on the concrete floor. Having it on a table with other test material on the side would have vibrated the table with two variables. Also, the decibel meter should have been on a separate tripod or something pointing right on top and not to the sides where there could be some porous openings causing differences.. Just a thought.
You should leave air space between your materials to allow the sound waves to die down while adding sound absorption materials on the inside parts of the air pockets to also absorb extra sound. Also, the materials touching allows for sound vibration to travel through them. The best way is for the materials to not touch each other.
I think that's what the sonopan and green glue does
Do an ASIC miner (Antminer S9) with ventilation, or just a soundproof box with ventilation.
I'm not sure about this test, it feels like there was too many air leaks. I feel like this test should have been more impressive.
I am not from canada. I am from europe. We dont get sonopan here. I have a huge base noise. I can get plywood. Any ideas of insulation panels that i could instal inside and or also outisde of the house? 😊
I don't know if you can get it in the UK, but try 1/16" lead sheets glued to 3/4" plywood. Worked very well for me blocking out loud bass music. It's going to be very heavy though. Don't forget to leave a nice (3-6") air gap in between and fill the cavity with rockwool.
Materials used, frequency horn, hmmm. Round 3 please!
Great Video ! Thank you for sharing. Apex Soundproofing requires materials with HIGH density, such as Rock Wool, or even lead. I would love to see you trying these materials, and you may want to revisit the the box itself, since I don't believe you have sufficient soundproofing... At any rate, great video, and thanks again. Keep up the good work mate :)
For best results in sound proofing irregular surfaces are needed in order to reduce resonance / echo effects. If you were to simply drill some holes in the first layer of the plywood sheet and keep the second flat, you would see a major improvement over what you have now. It seems counterintuitive but it will work.
Very good tipp! How would you recommend doing this for drywall instead of plywood?
Very interesting, do you have more info about that? like links or references.
Diffusion?
thx
Try testing rockwool and acoustic foam
Bath towel layers?
also test with lower bass frequency and I'm sure your results will change
Yes. This is what most people have the most issues with... bass.
Erm.
So that last peice of plaster board you routed out.
I'd argue that invalidated all the results.
Well invalidate is a bit harsh but thats just not a great way to build a sound chamber.
Tbh I'd try putting the meter inside the box and horns outside an repeat.
Remember how sound travels. Vibrations.
That is definitely a good idea. In terms of my method of testing being scientific, no its not, but totally invalidated results, also no. These results are still useful to draw comparisons from.
I like approach, though you should have tested using sounds in the same frequency range as the equipment you want to protect your ears from.
I'm thinking you have to separate the different layers possibly with spacers because the material itself is conducting the sound from one side to the other. In reference to your last video as an example, did you notice how the 1/2" drywall by itself reduced by 22.9 db? So, hypothetically, if you built a box within a box and separating the two with maybe little squares of sonopan as spacers, that could potentially reduce by almost 46db. The only issue is that drywall doesn't cancel out every single frequency but I'm getting ahead of myself..
That's a really interesting idea - I kept reading about leaving air gaps, but others say fill them up with something. Do you know what's actually better, by now?
It's probably about decoupling, which means less direct contact would be better. Then again - Why do people use decoupling mats / sheets to cover the whole floor instead of just some porous, non stiff material placed sparingly beneath a floating floor?
Or would it make not much of a difference, if the material is like rockwool?
46db would be fantastic and it sounds like it would be like that, but probably it's less due to unknown reasons?
my issue with this test is frequencies. Mass vinyl is good for low frequencies. the other materials mid to high frequencies. Mass vinyl sandwiched all the way around 18 mm acoustic drywall. 15db+22db (2mm) and 26db (3mm) and 29db at 4mm reduction. The issue with all of it is having an internal room, disconnected from the outer walls. Ideally the outer walls are acoustically sealed externally for max DB reduction of 65DB.
MLV doesn't do much for loud frequencies below 125hz. Sandwiching it between drywall does help lower the resonant frequency of the walls. Lowering the resonant frequency as much as possible is what needs to be done to achieve the best sound attenuation from outside noise coming in.
What confuses me more - why is the rubber sandwich with polywood worse than drywall rubber sandwich, but single plywood so good?
u should try cotton, i saw a video, that show how cotton, or others organic fabric are better than any synthetic materials for sound damp, i need to find it back. i can't remember the name of the chanel.
Cotton batt is only slightly better than rockwool. Rockwool is only slightly better than fiberglass, but for the lower frequencies. Above 100hz they're all pretty much have the same transmission loss.
What is the weight of Sonopan to 3/4" plywood per sq foot or your bow top samples. Thanks
Haven't watched this yet (watching this now), but pleeeease tell me you tested mass loaded vinyl (MLV). Everyone overlooks this, and it literally fully stops sound.
I stapled MLV to plywood and lined my metal workshop, and rockwool in the ceiling. I can run any of my powertools in my workshop at 3am, and my wife doesn't hear a thing.
Where to buy it?
@@LovePrincess-nh9hx I've ordered several rolls of it from Amazon. The brand I've gotten was "Soundsulate". It is heavy AF, and found that it was best applied with staples. The plastic cap nails just ripped under its own weight.
Is it really that good? It's pretty heavy for it's volume but also mostly thin
@@KirmesRuf6 I've found nothing better, nor do I think I would need a better solution. Can't hear any of my saws or planer or compressor or anything running from outside of my shop.
Ther is a material which seems like you didn't consider on both tests... EPDM Rubber, a 5mm thick one (5kg/square meter (1250kg/cubic meter) should give you (alone) average 25dB of absorbtion, but not all frequencies gets the same tamed by the same amount, bass frequencies are much difficult to treat. there is a product called TopSilent (made by an italian company) but I believe you can find comething similar in any country.
I think your box was leaking sound from layers not being airtight and I believe it was also leaking sound from the bottom which invalidates the entire test. For example stacking multiple layers of drywall should make a big difference but in your test it barely did anything, with that logic stacking 10 layers won't do anything when in reality it should practically make it completely soundproof unless it's ridiculously loud like 160 dB. Another criticism is only using one type of sound, in which case it's high pitch noise which is infamous for being really easy to soundproof, it even falls within STC rating. Something like sub bass and bass noise (20-250 Hz) would be a better test because it's very difficult to soundproof and requires decoupled walls with multiple layers of drywall. I would like to see a V3 of this test with addressed criticism.
I would think, that lid that was madeon the box would be bypassingall the sound proofing and allowind sound transmission directly out the edges of the lid. Maybe replace the lid with a more non transmissable / vibrating substance, so the sound proofing is being tested rather than the lid effects + sound proofing /
It's too bad you didn't include rockwool insulation.
I am hoping to see what a normal house build would look like. I.e. plywood sheathing, which is the exterior of the house, followed by R22 rockwool insulation, followed by sono pan, then drywall.
Can you try that?
Of course this isn't taking into account whether the siding is wood, vinyl or hardi board and on top of that, alot of homes are going into energy efficiency with exterior rockwool insulation (because I too just had this done with a R6) or foam boards, which I think would drastically reduce those annoying car horn sounds and traffic.
I am just trying to figure out if sono pan would be worth it or not.
One suggestion I know I made on the last video that maybe was missed... An air gap between your insulation helps as well! When I started working from home during the pandemic, we built a soundproof office, and we basically framed out two walls with an air gap in between. It's been great!
Air is not a soundproofing at all, it's an insulation if and only its none moving air. If the air move and travel, it's not insulating anything (it's also why pink fiberglass must not be compress, it's all the air bubble inside the materials that help with heat transfer).
Soundproofing require masse and air have none. You could have done the samething without leaving the air gap and it would yield the same result. The thing is what you did to create that air gap created soundproofing, but it's not the air that's doing so. In fact, air is the enemy of soundproofing cause it allow the noise wavelength to move freely.
@@jean-sebastienfrenette5169 wrong. If you had 2 layers of drywall stacked together , that would isolate less than those 2 layers separated by an air gap, and the greater the gap the greater the transmission loss. That is basic soundproofing: Mass-Air-Mass (or sometimes called Spring instead of Air as in adding absorbing material which is better)
@@segundacuenta726 Correct. It's hard for some people to wrap their heads around this technique because it seems counterintuitive.
I'd be curious about "moving blankets" and insulation batts.
Moving blankets might help with dampening, absorption and vibration, but fairly similar to what insulation batts give you.
Air gap and decoupling are most important for maximum sound attenuation.
is sonopan finally able to be purchased in the us?
Not yet. But you see so many vids on YT promoting it.
A double wall would vastly out preform any of these.
Litecrete concrete might be good.
thanks!!!!!
Sound Leakage at the joints between the box and the cover is the down fall
Queue up the many comments about isolation. Mass separated by nothing and then more mass with very little connecting them.
This would be very welcome with more interesting materials, that actually make up most of a construction, not just the finishing plates, which hardly do anything … rockwool and PIR would be a lot more interesting
Cork. You're welcome.
Bottle opener. Thanks.
You need to seal the edges or the sound will escape and invalidate the result.
I'm really confused
Pl accousti seal is not green glue at all. It's not for the samething. It is a sealant, you use it to seal the perimeter all around compared to green glue that you use 2 tube for 4x8 sheet. It's not at all a good test.
Homasote
I don't think its an accurate test to just throw the pieces on top. In a real scenario, the sound proofing will be nailed down, or secured in some way which would add an additional level of protection. Since its not secured down, the horn itself is so loud it would probably cause the panels on top to vibrate which would allow noise to escape around the edges. and you have the sound detection device right at the edge too, it should be opposite the sound proof layer you're testing. the sound proofing material should be between the the horn and sound measuing device.
Low frequency resonance is the main issue with soundproofing. Mids and highs are much easier to attenuate. Canadian lab tests from the early 2000's show that air space and decoupling (separate wall with 3"-6" air gap) makes a huge difference in sound attenuation. The larger the air space, the better the attenuation, especially the lower frequencies.
Mass is a key factor as well. Obviously you want the most mass for the least amount of money ~ i.e. double 5/8" drywall with a dampener in between. Specific carpet glues work just as well as green glue, and are a LOT cheaper.
@@JP5466 Correct. Also filling the air cavity with absorbing material will help compared to the same space being empty. Depending on how big, the density of the material will matter more or less. The greater the gap, the less dense material it needs to be (and it can be any of your choosing, doesn't have to be rockwool or fiberglass). Number 1 is mass. Number 2 is space between masses (decoupled or even better non touching very important). Number 3 is absorption. Density of mass also matters (as mentioned, lead and steel and to a way lesser extent, porcelain and MLV, will be better for low frecuencies than wood, drywall, etc., even if weight is matched).
@@segundacuenta726 To your point about air gaps...
I recently made a window plug for my basement window. Window is 24"x48". I glued 1/2" cork all around the top, sides and bottom of the window sill. The plug is made with 1/8" lexan plexiglass, 3/4" plywood (frame only) and 1/2" cork (gasket) and no insulation at all. The window sill is very deep, which gives me a 15" air gap. When I place the plug in the window, loud bass from passing car stereos is practically inaudible and loud 4th of July fireworks are 90% attenuated. After many trial and errors attempts at soundproofing this window, this is the best result I've ever achieved.
@@JP5466 Very nice. Since the air gap is so large, perhaps there is no need or even further noticeable benefit of thicker pane or even going for glass (since polycarbonate is half the weight of glass). In many cases though if the air gap is way smaller, thicker heavier panes would be needed. Even glass is better for soundproofing than polycarbonate, the poly is so much better for an outerlayer (wont be broken into pieces like glass, that's why its used in shields and booths).
@@segundacuenta726 Great points. 100% agree.
parabéns amigo mas o teste esta enviezado. voce nao vedou as camadas de drywall, apenas colocou uma sobre a outra. Todos os dados captados pelo decibelímetro foram inúteis. Não existe isolamento sem vedação. ⚠️⚠️⚠️
i wish i saw this before...ugggg
RUBBER