Were Responsible Reptile Keeping Right to suggest stopping breeding boas?
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- Опубліковано 25 січ 2023
- Share your thoughts discussion on subjects of this nature, i believe are incredibly valuable to working out who we are and where we are going as a hobby.
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You already know my opinion, how can we use self regulation as a rebuttal if we aren’t seen to be doing it. Also why would we just want to pretend? Don’t we actually want to self regulate? Don’t we care about animals being left to rescues? If we don’t care, why get into reptile care at all? 18:10
As someone who loves boas, I would love to see more of the natural locality boas getting more breeding attention as some are so expensive and difficult to get a hold of (especially in the UK). Argentines being a very obvious example.
There are a good selection of things like hog island and other such dwarf boas that you will see on rehoming websites or sold from shops, but I think It would be nice to see more of them. I think more awareness to the keepers to what they are buying themselves into is important so these mass produced common boas aren't getting picked up as much.
Got to admit when I watched it my interpretation was that the focus was on BCIs rather than the other types. Personally I have a rehome BCI from Brighton RSPCA reptile establishment. There were over 20 when I collected him a few years ago. Yes there is an issue which a healthy open discussion would be a benefit for all.
It is categorically not negative to discuss problems openly. The hobby needs to grow up and regulate itself fast. This is done by making the casual keeper aware of potential issues. Not by sweeping them under the rug as if they do not exist. If we are not seen to take responsibility then why would any layman trust the hobby as a whole to be responsible?
Chaz…you are the voice of reason! In this crazy word all minorities need to be prepared for attacks. If we are at odds amongst ourselves we will all pay the price till none of us are left. I am only a hobbiest keeper of several species but I wholeheartedly applaud your sentiment & efforts 👍
I havent seen the video yet but I agree with what you're saying. Something I have noticed in this hobby is that sometimes it's very hard for people to leave their ego at the door..and we aren't all immune to that! We need to stop and think sometimes and have these discussions and if Responsible reptile keeping are prompting these then surely they are fulfilling their namesake in that sense? 🤷♀️
Open discussion and self regulation I think is key. Also hobbiest pet keeper big breeders should all be involved in these issues. Knowing there is a problem is what will affect peoples decisions. Switch the focus if you know there is a problem within the species you breed then skip a season or two focus on somthing else. I think its important for breeders to have diverse collections. When the bottom drops out of your market or there is a re-home issue it's ok because you also work with this species. Educating owners before purchase.
Excellent video!
I enjoyed this video, discussing, conversing and sharing our thoughts on these matters helps us all find direction on these issues moving forward.
Since I started my platform in 2021, I have had numerous requests to take in snakes and other reptiles, the most frequent by far being Common Boa Imperators, followed closely by Burms, Normal Royals and Corns.
The animal is almost always
4-5+ years old, 5-6ft+ in length, has outgrown its 3-4ft viv and the person either is no longer comfortable with owning a larger snake or doesn't want to shell out on an expensive enclosure for a snake they only paid £20 for....
Inevitably I feel a sense of responsibility to help these animals so while I can't take any in myself, I'll always try to reach out to people where I can to help rehome these animals to suitable keepers.
This is an ongoing issue and it's only getting worse going forward if we as a hobby don't start breeding these larger snakes more responsibly.
Thankyou Chaz for taking the time to help bring this issue to light for more people, as you said, discussion is the way we'll move forward and help cure this issue.
I've got a massive respect for you, your words are always unfiltered and unbiased. 👍
I dont think super dooper mutants should take precident over a wild type animal. I personally like my snakes to resemble their wild counterparts & this is my preference. You commented in your white lip python video 'nature got it right', with which I wholeheartedly agree. Surely this applies to the entire community of flora & fauna on the planet as it was created through the ongoing process of natural evolution. This process has stood these animals in good stead until human intervention. I can personally say I'm only drawn more to the boa locales which were mentioned & not the 'common' boa imperator. However, my main interests are in pythonidae & would like to have a pair of Royal pythons, which are extremely undervalued since their respective myriad of mutations have been proliferated. Who should tell me that my OG pairing is any less exciting than a triple (recessive) het, double visual (dominant), scaleless (🤢) reptile that captures someones attention. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the value of such mutants should be lower & there would be a lot less breeding in general, leaving more appreciation for 'common' wild type animals. This is a market led system currently & no community regulation on those breeding with disregard for the consequences.
I haven't watched the video yet, but here in the states, I would like to see less breeding of ball pythons, leopard geckos, and bearded dragons. The rescues are flooded with them.
So, some people, whether breeder's or buyers, are failing in their responsibilities and their pet's are handed over to shelters. Another problem could be, shelters are not, choosing, to get good at marketing/selling the animals they have. Love, is action, as well as a feeling. Anyone, who want's to claim that they love, anything, are lying if they don't back that claim up, with action.
On shelters in general, I don't think I would ever need one, as I am willing to rely on family, and be the family that is relied upon, when it comes to emergencies and pets. so I don't feel a strong sense of responsibility to look at shelter animals first, when I want a new pet. But for those who would want to rely on a shelter in an emergency, (especially, hard to care for pets) go there first.
Since cost of heating was brought up, people can get snakes that can thrive in their climate. For example, people who live in cooler part's of Europe, could get grass snakes, dice snakes, Russian rat snakes, Korean rat snakes or northern water snakes etc. which are snakes that can handle some cold. Diet is another place to save money, for example, if fish is easier to acquire, and cheaper to buy, than rodent's, North American water snakes, or dice snakes could be best. Or there are egg eating snakes, if small to medium sized egg's are easy to get. Bird snakes, eastern black rat snakes, and tiger rat snakes also seem to readily accept eggs as part of their diet.
I think we do need to open up and say when there are issues. We can't go on breeding boas for them to end up in re-homes and not getting homed. It just adds amo to the antis. I think by having an open discussion then more people can have the info and act accordingly. Some may go it's not worth it some may say it is. But by ignoring the issue nothing gets said and no action is taken till it's possibly too late. We show strength by owing up and taking responsibility
I am personally disappointed to see Snakes N' Adders involved with people tangential to RRK. Your article was the only good thing in between the 30 something ads in their "magazine".
The RRK magazine features an article that was originally on another blog that seems to be owned by Peregrine - a conflict of interest that wasn't really listed. So, in short, were they right about suggesting that people stop breeding boas? The real answer is that it's irrelevant - RRK is just a marketing firm collecting money and promoting product companies like Monkfield (who owns...), Arcadia, Peregrine, etc. The very next hot button issue was to say they were "suggesting" members of their org not to breed spider - it's irrelevant hot-button topic marketing that will do no good for the hobby as a whole. It's Responsible Reptile Market Campaigning for Cash Grabs and no more.
Let's get the actual organizations responsible for some of these rescues out and discussing the problem. Not a fake welfare organization invested in selling me a DHP and a ReptiFiles plagiarized care guide trying to get marketing viral on social media. Complete farce.
Nothing stops you from having the conversation in this video *without RRK as a middleman trying to grab money* and your own insights (like when you discussed iguanas) will make more progress while RRK literally drags us backwards. As far as power goes, the way to make progress is UV LED and more efficient heaters (ie: *not* DHPs which are extremely inefficient) that align with greater worldwide initiatives for power efficiency -- run that across RRK and Monkfield/Arcadia and you'll get told everything except what they sell is "failed" and the entire world is wrong about fluorescent lamps (mostly to protect their current cash agreements with companies like PetSmart). You can push for testing like we have here through RGI - I successfully tested for morphs through DNA in my kitchen (to reduce the overproduction to "hit the morph" as you mentioned). You can do the same. RRK *could* make initiatives for genetic testing, more efficient tooling, disease management (PCR tests for ADV, crypto, nido, etc) but they won't - they'll make hot button issues for social media shares.
The RRK org plans to "fix" the reptile hobby by being sponsored by ReptiFiles who *is factually, literally banned for life from Wikipedia for vandalizing their articles for self promotion* (you can confirm this: her account was citsci05 and she attempted to brand it as ReptiFiles before being banned indefinitely). In more than one instance, she copied the wikipedia page and then tried to insist she had authority and a copyright claim to the information. I am going to struggle to believe she actually sponsors RRK, which they credit her for, and instead I believe they just tried to grab an "influencer" to boost memberships. Literally the opposite of ethics. And your friend Liam visiting the comments here? The same one that was knocking off known disinformation campaigner Dr. John Campbell to tell people the sun cures viruses.... before partnering up with a veterinarian that euthanized snakes for fame.... also not a great association.... and before he tries to convince you that thermometers shoot lasers that bounce off of surfaces to read the temperature.... no.
Is the problems were having over here similar to the issues they are having over in America mainly Florida where they are also discussing thinks like a white list of exotic animals which doesn’t work either side of the pond but also a fear that should the anti reptile hobby get their own way could we see something over here like the tragedy that happened when fwc raided a breeders facility and proceeded to euthanise the animals that were deemed illegal in a new rule change and then proceeded to miss identify a legal snake although I don’t think I would have left a leagal snake in the room where they were killing the ones that deemed illegal but is this something that is a global issue I have seen where Americans in other states than Florida have said it’s a country wide issue but is it not a bigger issue where the likes of peta don’t like us keeping animals at all but reptile owners make us such a small number of overall pet owners that were the easy target,
And yeah I know the Florida issue is more that the reptiles could survive and thrive in their ecosystem if they were to escape where in the U.K. it would he a cruel and slow death where escapees could possibly survive the summer months but then die off as soon as the autumn winter comes but then isn’t that also a reason why certain turtles are now banned in the U.K. as some of them have been released and surprisingly survived.
nah virtue signalling imo like banning pitbulls achieves nothing, same people would be crying if the gov stepped in and banned them
They’re asking for common boas to be bred less to ease pressure on reptile rescues, not have them banned.
Surely we want to internally regulate - to make it so the government has no REASON to step in and say "you can keep the animals you have but you can't breed or buy or sell any more because they're filling the rehoming centres to bursting."
My own personal rule with breeding my animals is the "it's a hobby" rule - if the clutch I'm producing doesn't have the potential to produce a hatchling I want to keep, I don't breed the animals in the first place. I''m breeding to produce what I want to have, first and foremost - and if I don't have a reliable, all but guaranteed place for the other babies in the clutch to go, even if that clutch does have the potential to produce something I want ... I don't breed the animals. This means that some years my hobby pays for feeding the animals I keep - and some years, I'm really, really glad I have a day job to pay for the hobby.
So why is it so bad to say "Hey, think about what you're breeding and where those offspring - who should have multiple-decade-long lifespans - will all go - and don't breed animals that are going to be difficult to find homes" ?
@@CSsBaily because the problem is never the animal its the people, like it isn't a gun problem or a dog problem. Less boas is just going to be more burms, or more retics, or more whatever people can sell/grt their hands on. Stuff like this is short sighted, kicking the can down the road, wanting to be seen to do something but really doing nothing at all
@@caspar_gomez This is true - it is the people. But if you've got responsible breeders who are going "let's not produce more burms, retics, boas and other high clutch size, low suitable number of home species than there are actually suitable homes for" ... there will be fewer individuals of those species around, they'll be harder to get, more expensive to get (which will make them less appealing to people who don't genuinely want the species for what it is and what it requires).
And it's making more of an effort than "Eh, we can't stop the plonkers, no point in even trying, might as well join 'em, if they're gonna profit off boas I want to as well."
10% of an improvement - think of it as 10% fewer animals being produced, 10% fewer animals in rescue that don't have permanent homes - is still better than no reduction at all. And if the shops and big breeders go "yeah, you know what, we're not going to overproduce our own animals, we just won't breed half or two thirds or any of our boas this year" ... that's going to make a difference to the number of boas available out there, and therefore to the number of boas that could potentially wind up in rescues.
@@CSsBaily yeah you would hope so, but it's just not going to work. Last few years we've seen reduction in supply, increase in cost only leads to an increase in hype and demand. The harder and more expensive they are to get the more of a status symbol it becomes and the more people will want them. All it will be is theyll have to go to an irressponsible breeder to get them. This 'self regulation' wont work and the more people make it an 'issue' the more likely some offical is going to step in and regulate it for you. Maybe it starts with big constrictors, but it won't stop there.
Also I'm definitely going to get flack for this, but when it comes to reptiles, I'm not so emotional. If they can't be rehomed, find a use for them, people want belts and watch straps. They're not rare in captivity, theyre not important to any ecosystem function sitting in a vivarium up north somewhere. Better the animal gets to live 5-10 years and then is 'eaten' (like they would in the wild) than just never live at all? I dont see it that way.