Sorry guys I did write a post about my thoughts and experiences of the Breeders Cup but I posted it under my sons account as he swapped them over while using my computer over the weekend and then had the gall to delete it. As you can imagine he shan't be using my PC again. I had a fantastic Breeders Cup on the saturday. The friday was a washout no winers tho I was very impressed with Lancaster Bomber and I think that for a change the master of Ballydoyle missed a trick with this one. I mean his career has been as a pacemaker, first for Churchill three times and then for Intelligence Cross. Surely a horse as good as this should have had a campaign mapped out for himself and not just as a pacemaker. I backed him because I couldn't get away from his Dewhurst run which had two subsequent Gp 1 winners back in 4th and 5th and not just any old Gp1 winners but Rivet in the Racing Post Trophy (ridiculously impressive) and Thunder Snow in the Grand Criterium! Two of the most important end of season 2yo Gp1's in Europe. I feel he may be when of AP O'Brien's leading lights next season given truly fast ground but it does beg the question? How good must Churchill be? I will be back to comment on my saturday exploits shortly just got to pop out. Yee Haa
Breeders Cup? Distaff? Turf mile? Don't get many Australian winners at the BC, don't get many runners. Surely Winx would be competitive. I would make her fav for the Turf mile. Yee Haa
The BC conflicts with the Melbourne spring carnival. Any horse capable of winning a BC race is capable of winning some of the best races at home. Including the lead up races the money is better and they don't have to tackle the travel nor the tight, turning turf courses in the states that are an afterthought, built on the inside of the dirt courses. He BC turf races are easy pickings for the most part for the Europeans who really don't have anything to race for at this time of year.
Yeah kind of, tho I dispute they are easy pickings for the Europeans. We keep tally every year and consider ourselves fortunate if we bring two or three races home. When it is in California it is especially difficult for us it was only a few years ago we came home with one! For the majority of European horses it is the end of the season, for a long time it tended to be an after thought for our runners. Then trainers like AP O'Brien started to target the meeting and our results have consequently improved. I get the Spring Carnival reference (I am up till 8am most Saturday mornings around now having spent the whole night watching and betting at Randwick, Rosehill, Caulfield, Flemington etc)but with quarantine laws the way they are the Breeders Cup could be slipped into the schedule of any Australian horses international campaign. After all your horses are at their veritable peak around BC time and could still participate in a domestic campaign. I haven't got time to check, but I would be surprised if the money were better at the Carnival. The Breeders Cup is only two fixtures (was better as one) but I believe they constitute the richest days of racing in the world. In the case of Winx specifically I just thought that she had already achieved everything that she can in Oz, just beating the same horses she has already beaten a country mile often without breaking a sweat. Imagine what a champion she would be if she came and stuck it to the Americans in their own backyard and there would at least be a proper field for her to beat. I have noticed it before with other greats as the fields become small and to be honest easily beaten as the trainers and owners start to run scared of a particularly brilliant racehorse. Winx's last field is a perfect example. It won't happen so its academic really but wouldn't it be a sight to behold Mr Gardiner. Yee haa
Oh absolutely... I doubt there are many race fans who don't like to see their horses taking on international fixtures. But I've done the Sydney -Chicago flight/s and it is hell. I can only imagine how a horse would do it. This year is the first time I've heard of an Australian horse being considered for a BC race from Australia. Lord of the Sky was in the picture given the G1 sprinting ranks here are so strong. Unfortunately he went amiss and hit the paddock. The big difference here as opposed to Europe is ownership profiles. Most of our horses, including Winx, are owned by syndicates, who, as a generalisation don't give a shit about the historical significance of their horse. Winx will start next in the $3m Cox Plate. If she comes through that OK there is a $2m Mackinnon at WFA the Saturday after the Cup. Remember what happened to Black Caviar where they tacked a DJ onto a 9 month, 9 G1 campaign where she won her grand final, the TJ Smith. I can imagine how that conversation goes between Waller and the owners. "We could win the $4.8m she is assured of (more or less) or put it all on the line to stick one up the Yanks." Europeans are different. There's less emphasis on making prize-money for the owners who are generally more "old money." Winx is still only 5 by Southern Hemisphere time and Waller loves Royal Ascot. My bet would be she's a much bigger chance at a POW than a BC Turf.
I'd love to see her at Royal Ascot, the Australians have come over a few times for the Royal meeting and So You Think won the Prince of Wales a few years back I think. I am pretty sure he was an Australian racehorse before he was bought by Coolmore. Surely the journey to the UK is even more grueling than the US West Coast. I have done the Heathrow to Sydney run a number of times and the Heathrow to Brisbane flight once as well and it is a truly horrible experience, only made bearable by the fantastic and wondrous destination. Coming home is a real bummer. I re-read your first post and realised you were suggesting that their was more money in the lead up races, ie; the whole Spring programme and I guess you are right. You are also spot on about the dynamic of racing in the UK. Our owners, or at least the top ones for the most part approach the sport as a hobby. Making money is almost secondary. It worries me sick because we have some of the finest racing in the world but our prize money is awful, almost insulting. As long as we have the Queen, Coolmore, Godolphin, Prince Khalid Abdullah and the likes of the Al Thani's, Al Shaqab Racing we should survive but at grass roots level British Racing is in a dreadful state. Our racing maintains its status because for breeding and bloodstock operations like those just mentioned the English Classics carry by far the most prestige. A stallion with an English Derby win will be far more appealing to potential customers than with an Irish Derby or even an Arc. I just wonder with prize money on offer for the alternatives constantly rising and our model so broken, how long we can maintain the UK as a premier racing nation. Its those pesky bookmakers Mr Gardiner, they fight tooth and nail to limit their contribution to racing, they declare that racing is less and less important to their operations and refuse to pay the levy. Looking at the various models different countries use to finance their racing it seems to me that those countries with a tote monopoly have the best financed racing industry and as such the best prize money structure. I understand in Japan (tote monopoly) that they have a policy that an owner should be able to pay his average incurred expenses for an individual horse if he is able to win a single race of the lowest grade! Sorry I didn't mean to go on. Lets hope that we might see Winx at Royal Ascot next year. In the meantime I shall enjoy watching the fantastic Spring Carnival and the wonderful Breeders Cup meet. Before going into hibernation until Cheltenham and the start of the new Flat season. (I may get out of bed for the Dubai Carnival as well) Good Luck Mr Gardiner and check out Heartbreak City for the big one. He won the Ebor and I believe was sold to Australia specifically to race in the cup. I doubt the trainer is well known in Oz but over here Tony Martin is considered a bit of a genius, especially in the field of handicaps. With the Melbourne Cup being such an early closing race he may be very well weighted. Yee Haa
Australia has had a good amount of success in the short course racing on the UK, predominantly due to the Global Sprint Series. Choisir was the lamp-lighter in 2003, winning a King Stand and a Golden Jubilee. After that Takeover Target, Miss Andretti, Scenic Blast and of course Black Caviar won at Royal Ascot. There have also been a number of other horses win G1's such as Ortensia, Haradasun and Starcraft. In fact over 50% of Australian runners have won G1's in the UK, which is a phenomenal strike-rate. Australian sprinters have proven themselves the best in the world in most years. So You Think was important because her was a middle distance horse being purchased to go back to race where the strongest middle distance division exists, in most years. There have been plenty of outstanding middle distance horses in. Australia, just very few with breeding potential. Travel between Europe and Asia is a much more well worn path than between Asia and the states. Even for horses travelling from Japan to Australia is problematic because the infrastructure doesn't really exist. This is the same issue as travelling to the US. It's the availability of infrastructure that is the issue. I take your point about tote betting. The other reason we have such big stakes is the fact we have extremely rich handicaps. If you have a look through the fields for races such as the Doncaster half the field will be 5% syndications. And the betting is staggering. Compare this to a 10F set weight race where there is often a stand-out in the red. Thanks for the Cup tip. I will follow his progress. The Caulfield Cup is run this Saturday. The favourite looks well in, but I'm interested in what the internationals do. Some of them have drawn very well.
"She's a champion, Winx!" No truer phrase spoken.
Sorry guys I did write a post about my thoughts and experiences of the Breeders Cup but I posted it under my sons account as he swapped them over while using my computer over the weekend and then had the gall to delete it. As you can imagine he shan't be using my PC again. I had a fantastic Breeders Cup on the saturday. The friday was a washout no winers tho I was very impressed with Lancaster Bomber and I think that for a change the master of Ballydoyle missed a trick with this one. I mean his career has been as a pacemaker, first for Churchill three times and then for Intelligence Cross. Surely a horse as good as this should have had a campaign mapped out for himself and not just as a pacemaker. I backed him because I couldn't get away from his Dewhurst run which had two subsequent Gp 1 winners back in 4th and 5th and not just any old Gp1 winners but Rivet in the Racing Post Trophy (ridiculously impressive) and Thunder Snow in the Grand Criterium! Two of the most important end of season 2yo Gp1's in Europe. I feel he may be when of AP O'Brien's leading lights next season given truly fast ground but it does beg the question? How good must Churchill be? I will be back to comment on my saturday exploits shortly just got to pop out. Yee Haa
What do you say just a Champion little did they know what was to still come fhis being win number 9 in a row. The best ever.
Only a champion can win from there!
Breeders Cup? Distaff? Turf mile? Don't get many Australian winners at the BC, don't get many runners. Surely Winx would be competitive. I would make her fav for the Turf mile. Yee Haa
The BC conflicts with the Melbourne spring carnival. Any horse capable of winning a BC race is capable of winning some of the best races at home. Including the lead up races the money is better and they don't have to tackle the travel nor the tight, turning turf courses in the states that are an afterthought, built on the inside of the dirt courses. He BC turf races are easy pickings for the most part for the Europeans who really don't have anything to race for at this time of year.
Yeah kind of, tho I dispute they are easy pickings for the Europeans. We keep tally every year and consider ourselves fortunate if we bring two or three races home. When it is in California it is especially difficult for us it was only a few years ago we came home with one! For the majority of European horses it is the end of the season, for a long time it tended to be an after thought for our runners. Then trainers like AP O'Brien started to target the meeting and our results have consequently improved. I get the Spring Carnival reference (I am up till 8am most Saturday mornings around now having spent the whole night watching and betting at Randwick, Rosehill, Caulfield, Flemington etc)but with quarantine laws the way they are the Breeders Cup could be slipped into the schedule of any Australian horses international campaign. After all your horses are at their veritable peak around BC time and could still participate in a domestic campaign. I haven't got time to check, but I would be surprised if the money were better at the Carnival. The Breeders Cup is only two fixtures (was better as one) but I believe they constitute the richest days of racing in the world. In the case of Winx specifically I just thought that she had already achieved everything that she can in Oz, just beating the same horses she has already beaten a country mile often without breaking a sweat. Imagine what a champion she would be if she came and stuck it to the Americans in their own backyard and there would at least be a proper field for her to beat. I have noticed it before with other greats as the fields become small and to be honest easily beaten as the trainers and owners start to run scared of a particularly brilliant racehorse. Winx's last field is a perfect example. It won't happen so its academic really but wouldn't it be a sight to behold Mr Gardiner. Yee haa
Oh absolutely... I doubt there are many race fans who don't like to see their horses taking on international fixtures. But I've done the Sydney -Chicago flight/s and it is hell. I can only imagine how a horse would do it. This year is the first time I've heard of an Australian horse being considered for a BC race from Australia. Lord of the Sky was in the picture given the G1 sprinting ranks here are so strong. Unfortunately he went amiss and hit the paddock. The big difference here as opposed to Europe is ownership profiles. Most of our horses, including Winx, are owned by syndicates, who, as a generalisation don't give a shit about the historical significance of their horse. Winx will start next in the $3m Cox Plate. If she comes through that OK there is a $2m Mackinnon at WFA the Saturday after the Cup. Remember what happened to Black Caviar where they tacked a DJ onto a 9 month, 9 G1 campaign where she won her grand final, the TJ Smith. I can imagine how that conversation goes between Waller and the owners. "We could win the $4.8m she is assured of (more or less) or put it all on the line to stick one up the Yanks." Europeans are different. There's less emphasis on making prize-money for the owners who are generally more "old money." Winx is still only 5 by Southern Hemisphere time and Waller loves Royal Ascot. My bet would be she's a much bigger chance at a POW than a BC Turf.
I'd love to see her at Royal Ascot, the Australians have come over a few times for the Royal meeting and So You Think won the Prince of Wales a few years back I think. I am pretty sure he was an Australian racehorse before he was bought by Coolmore. Surely the journey to the UK is even more grueling than the US West Coast. I have done the Heathrow to Sydney run a number of times and the Heathrow to Brisbane flight once as well and it is a truly horrible experience, only made bearable by the fantastic and wondrous destination. Coming home is a real bummer. I re-read your first post and realised you were suggesting that their was more money in the lead up races, ie; the whole Spring programme and I guess you are right. You are also spot on about the dynamic of racing in the UK. Our owners, or at least the top ones for the most part approach the sport as a hobby. Making money is almost secondary. It worries me sick because we have some of the finest racing in the world but our prize money is awful, almost insulting. As long as we have the Queen, Coolmore, Godolphin, Prince Khalid Abdullah and the likes of the Al Thani's, Al Shaqab Racing we should survive but at grass roots level British Racing is in a dreadful state. Our racing maintains its status because for breeding and bloodstock operations like those just mentioned the English Classics carry by far the most prestige. A stallion with an English Derby win will be far more appealing to potential customers than with an Irish Derby or even an Arc. I just wonder with prize money on offer for the alternatives constantly rising and our model so broken, how long we can maintain the UK as a premier racing nation. Its those pesky bookmakers Mr Gardiner, they fight tooth and nail to limit their contribution to racing, they declare that racing is less and less important to their operations and refuse to pay the levy. Looking at the various models different countries use to finance their racing it seems to me that those countries with a tote monopoly have the best financed racing industry and as such the best prize money structure. I understand in Japan (tote monopoly) that they have a policy that an owner should be able to pay his average incurred expenses for an individual horse if he is able to win a single race of the lowest grade! Sorry I didn't mean to go on. Lets hope that we might see Winx at Royal Ascot next year. In the meantime I shall enjoy watching the fantastic Spring Carnival and the wonderful Breeders Cup meet. Before going into hibernation until Cheltenham and the start of the new Flat season. (I may get out of bed for the Dubai Carnival as well) Good Luck Mr Gardiner and check out Heartbreak City for the big one. He won the Ebor and I believe was sold to Australia specifically to race in the cup. I doubt the trainer is well known in Oz but over here Tony Martin is considered a bit of a genius, especially in the field of handicaps. With the Melbourne Cup being such an early closing race he may be very well weighted. Yee Haa
Australia has had a good amount of success in the short course racing on the UK, predominantly due to the Global Sprint Series. Choisir was the lamp-lighter in 2003, winning a King Stand and a Golden Jubilee. After that Takeover Target, Miss Andretti, Scenic Blast and of course Black Caviar won at Royal Ascot. There have also been a number of other horses win G1's such as Ortensia, Haradasun and Starcraft. In fact over 50% of Australian runners have won G1's in the UK, which is a phenomenal strike-rate. Australian sprinters have proven themselves the best in the world in most years. So You Think was important because her was a middle distance horse being purchased to go back to race where the strongest middle distance division exists, in most years. There have been plenty of outstanding middle distance horses in. Australia, just very few with breeding potential. Travel between Europe and Asia is a much more well worn path than between Asia and the states. Even for horses travelling from Japan to Australia is problematic because the infrastructure doesn't really exist. This is the same issue as travelling to the US. It's the availability of infrastructure that is the issue. I take your point about tote betting. The other reason we have such big stakes is the fact we have extremely rich handicaps. If you have a look through the fields for races such as the Doncaster half the field will be 5% syndications. And the betting is staggering. Compare this to a 10F set weight race where there is often a stand-out in the red. Thanks for the Cup tip. I will follow his progress. The Caulfield Cup is run this Saturday. The favourite looks well in, but I'm interested in what the internationals do. Some of them have drawn very well.