Can a narcissistic relationship TURN YOU INTO A LIAR?
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You cannot play by the rules with the narcissist. Because they don’t play by the rules. They lie, cheat and steal. So if you’re always being fair and honest, they’re going to run circles around you. Lying to a narcissist is about keeping yourself out of danger and protecting yourself. They’re undeserving of your honesty and loyalty.
Agreed. I am a straight shooter and that meant the narcissists in my life can take advantage of me.
Lie, cheat and steal, precisely. All 3. A horrible sense of entitlement and are never wrong.
I got impression that this vid tries to justify why is good to harm someone perception because he is narc... It resemble me middle ages witch hunt, or Nazis.
He is not human he is narcissist. You can be mean to him, cause he is not like you. Chosen ones and the rest of dirty folks (narcissists, psychpaths...).
You can opt out from relationship with narc, if you don't put your basic needs in his hands.
Otherwise you need to grow up and become independent from him.
It shitty excuse to lie to someone, who you don't love, but want to take profits by lying, and percive yourself as good person.
Covert-narcassist alert ⚠️
Now that we have been married for 25 years. I am sick and tired of the way he treats me. So, every time he talks to me like crap I take is be loved money! He loves his money sooo much! And I wanted to find a way to get back at him. Every time he talks bad to me I take money and when he finds found out he is pissed. And I am happy. I tell him now you know how I feel. As you may know our relationship is in the crapper!😂 we do not talk at all or maybe when he is mad about something he comes and screams at me for it. He lives upstairs I live downstairs. In our big house. Only because financially he can't afford to move out nor can I. I am very over weight from the stress and going to get weight loss surgery. After I lose some of the weight. I will get a job and then move out. I pray all goes well for me. Because he is a complete syco!
Been there. And having to lie like a little child is deeply humiliating, whether discovered or not. They know- it’s a set up.
They are morally corrupt and don't feel slightest remorse for the way they treat you.i lied many times to save myself. It's not compulsive just a necessity.
I often felt guilt about lying to the narcissist and pretending to be someone else because they would make my life hell if I was myself. The best thing I did was go no contact. I vowed to myself that I would be me no matter what and would not pretend to be anything else again. If I ever felt I had to pretend for someone after that, then that person was not meant to be in my life.
Isn't ironic that these people lie, cheat, steal, abuse, threaten the lives of kids, pets, but you feel guilty for a single lie to literally keep people alive and safe? While they feel zero guilt of everything they have done. It's mind boggling. We are not the same.
Me too... Just to get through the day.
Oh, yes indeed!!
I'm with you.
Yep, guilt, narcs like to guilt trip you.
Especially about things they framed you with.
Before I watch the video, I'm gonna guess based on my experiences that the answer is ABSO-FUCKIN'-LUTELY. Whether it's by a force, an inner desire to keep the peace in a hopeless situation, or even gaslighting ourselves because the abuser/narcissistic is more articulate with words so we just ignored our instinct, it's still lying. I base this answer on my personal experiences growing up.
5:45 *I had to selectively lie and critically think when I was a child, teenager and college student to my covert narcissistic mother because being transparent and honest with her would have provided her more narcissistic supply and material to try to sabotage my educational and business goals. I never felt one ounce of guilt. When you grow up having an emotionally abusive parent and yearn for a better life you become cunning, clever and innovative QUICK. The only narcissist I suffer from was my mother. No contact in over 10 years. I am thriving. Don't pity me. Having a CN as a mother prepared me for the cutthroat business world full of narcs!* 💗
Facts ( cubed )
My heart is broken for you. Children take a lot for sure. I am thankful you are so intelligent and creative and able to turn your NEGATIVE INTO GREAT VALUE!!! God Bless you as you write your own story. Many people are waiting for your stories to be told. The children around us NEED TO HEAR from us and SEE A DIFFERENCE,an option to the PAIN they around them. WE can BE there for them.
Yes. My ex was demanding with my daughters about their school work. When he was out of town he would call in and check to see if their homework was done before they relaxed from their school day. When he called, I learned to lie because he would go ballistic if they hadn’t completed their homework yet. They always finished their homework before the next day but not on his ridiculous schedule. So yes I lied. As I recover, I am getting better by not lying to the non-toxic people around me.
Of your best episodes, Dr. Ramani. I look at a narcissistic relationship as an impossible, abusive scenario. If the relationship can't be ended you have to do what you have to do. You can't win at their game so you have to use your own strategy within your own little, personal, ethical code
man do i ever hear this and i agree. working within systems and doing what feels good to myself and not really caring what others think or feel ok. not my problem
👍Narcissistic abuse can do irreparable harm. Not to protect yourself from it when you are aware of the potential goes against all common sense and ethical towards yourself.
I've lied to my narcissistic mom over big and small things, and so has my brother. I do my best to keep it to a minimum, and it's usually lies of omission. My brother has told some big whoppers. But my mom is completely intolerant of us living our lives if we don't align to her preferences. My conscious does bother me whenever I feel I need to lie to my mom, but her rageful reaction to whatever the truth is leaves me with no choice. It's one of the worst parts of having a mom like this - having to compromise your values in order to survive in the relationship. The funny thing is my mom constantly accuses people of lying. "Why does everyone LIE to me?" No self reflection.
I found myself lying to cover for him. I didn't want anyone to know what was going on. And at that time, I didn't even understand what was going on. That took a long, long time to understand. Thanks to you Dr. Ramani and others like you.
Yeah it’s a slow ingraining process then suddenly you’re in deep sh*t
@@oceansunset6147 WOW!!!! What a simple way to put a maelstrom of EVIL and MANIPULATION SUCCINCTLY. You ; I consider a friend to be trusted. THANKS 🙏!!!!
This video was so validating. I found myself saying inane lies about innocuous things in my last toxic relationship just to avoid days of exhausting conflict. Stuff like saying I had gone to lunch with my coworkers rather than with a friend my ex did not approve of. Or that I was asleep when he called and not hanging out with friends. I knew what I was doing wasn't wrong, but I knew that if I had told my ex the truth there would have been a fight. Now that I'm in a relationship where the conversation is open and healthy, I've not felt the need to lie to my partner at all. Difficult conversations are just that.....conversations. Not hours and hours of arguing. It's so refreshing to feel like I'm allowed to be transparent with my partner.
Sometimes you would unconsciously see yourself lying to the narcissist just to protect yourself because you don’t want them finding out about something that could potentially cause them a narcissistic injury.
Why inadvertently though?
Exactly.
As for example cheating on him?
You diagnosed him as narc, while being in closer relationship with him (which miałeś your diagnosta flawed).
Wow you are sooo good special snowflake 🤣
This is probably also how the narcissists became such liars because they were most likely raised by narcissists
@@lt827under pressure maybe?
Historically, in order to survive, survivors of war had to lie. Remember most victims of narcs have a great moral compass
Never thought of lying as reactive abuse but now I see it can be.
I have lied just to avoid bombastic behaviour and unrelenting barrage of fury. She would bombard me with words, accusations, and threats and to avoid further conflict, I would say something to have her desist. I am 5'11" and 260 pounds with a voice like James Earl Jones - yet I felt small and stupid during these times. Not proud of my words and reactions.
@@josephmacisaac3346bombastic is the best word lmao
Lying to my mother became a reflex. It was self preservation. Her responses were predictably unpredictable and the consequences for me were often gnarly.
I stopped feeling any guilt after watching her destroy friendships over needing to be incharge of others.
I used to 'lie' by omission to my mum by not telling her about my holidays abroad or successes. This was to avoid her chronic envy, making it all about her, or simply to stop her from raining on my parade. It's so sad that I was unable to share such things, and for her be genuinely happy for me.
I used to do this too 😔
Yes I absolutely did lie to keep him from being mad. It was easier.
Ikr!!!! A matter of survival
My narcissistic mother would weaponize anything I did & she had a memory like an elephant. She never admitted anything she did wrong, but she remembered everything I did like a checklist.
So did mine and if the checklist wasn't enough she would make stuff up.
Yes. My money-, credential-, and status-obsessed covert narc mom wanted all of her kids to become doctors to feed her own ego because that's the pinnacle of success in her warped reality. I pretended to be interested and pretended to pursue it, then just said I didn't get in to avoid her narc rage, gaslighting, manipulation, etc.
Zero concern for her kids genuine interests. They're just objects for her fantasy world.
Great video, there is nothing like a perfect marriage or relationship, I learnt that in everything there is always a solution, 5 years ago I and my wife divorced because we were having some difficulties in our marriage but we are back together ,it was a really bad phase but we got through it
there is a lot of sense in what you just said and I hope mine works the same way too, we are currently separated but I cant live without her, I love her so much. wish I can get her back I can do anything to have her back, we have tried therapy amongst other things
its always difficult to let someone you love go, but in my case I had the help of a spiritual adviser who saved my marriage from collapsing her name is SHELLY RENEE WHITE.
this is helpful, I will look her up. I hope this works for me too, I really miss her.
If you look up Shelly Renee White online, you will find all the information you need. Thank you.
Malignant narc parent thought I was the most terrible child and would accuse me of doing things I didn't do. I learned to lie and say I did do those things only to get them off my back. It was a reflief when the accusations and harassment stopped once I 'gave in' and said what they expected to hear.
exactly
This is the reason why having good boundaries in the beginning of a relationship is of utmost importance.
So very true!
@@redlikewineagain697 Boundaries are important. But with Narcissists they don't work.
The tricky thing with setting boundries with a narcissit partner is that you feel as if you are not living true love but a relationship with an expiring date. And the worst thing with keeping limits might shock you when one day you find yourself living with a narcissit who manipulates your innocence. I think discovering the other side intentions might be better right at the beginning to decide upon the upcoming pathway: You live with prudence or leave the relationship. This is in the case of partners. But in the case of parents and brothers and sisters, setting boundries is the best thing ever. With friends, if you have a narcissit friend it is better to kick it out of your life. You cannot manage a community of narcissits who are sucking all your energy 😢 all time 😢😢😢😢
Narcissists blow right through boundaries as if they were stop signs, and then blame everybody else for the collision they caused.
@@msr1116 Absolutely right 👍
As an only child I was a scapegoat and a golden child. Growing up with a narcissist and enabler parent, I watched my narcissist parent lie to everyone and then laugh about it and teach me that was okay. Only after I moved out in my 20s did I learn that lying was wrong. Working on being honest in all situations is very hard but it feels good and rewarding. Even though I don’t talk to my parents anymore, at the end of our relationship I had started to grey rock, so that way I wasn’t necessarily lying to them anymore to keep myself safe but I put them on an information diet. I found that to be therapeutic because there was nothing that made me vulnerable to bullying.
There were a lot of things my big narc taught me when I was small that I didn't have any idea how dodgy they were. I was very very lucky, though, that my non-narc (scapegoat) parent grabbed me aside when I was about 8 and explained why lying was wrong, in stark terms. He said, "Women have been burned alive because someone lied."
I grey rock, but amicably.
I was in this same situation too growing up. It was hard to deal with. I still have so many trust issues from that and then being in a narcissistic marriage later on.
Love your term "information diet". That's a good way to stating it!
My exwife bombed me with like 50 questions in a row and I kinda checked out and lied and man I never heard the end of it until we divorced
No. My truth telling to the narcissists in my life is what made me the target. Both with my parents and narcs later on.
I think that... It turns people into fearful liars instead of malignant liars.
After a while I didn't recognize myself. I never had an argument with anyone in my life until I met him. It was an intense human experience in two years which of course included lot of lying to keep him from blowing up.
Yes. I had to lie about the fact I went to my friend's funeral as he had made it clear that he didn't think I should be allowed to be upset by her death as "you were not that close". He had a habit of minimising how close my friendships were. I was desperate to say goodbye to her along with my other friends so I had to hide the fact that I went. I never mentioned it.
I think I lied to protect myself, but the narcs encouraged my lying because they used it against me as a character flaw. Not lying was a battle I fought to realize this.
Brilliant. I am not, and have never been, a liar, to the degree that I would rather look "bad" to someone than lie. But I have absolutely no problem with the intentional and judicious lie to a narcissist as a survival strategy. I have no problem taking the chance that they find out and weaponize it. It does not make me any less of a person. Powerful video, Dr. Ramani. Thank you.
Thank you for this video Dr. Ramani! I often find myself telling lies to avoid the wrath of my narcissistic spouse. I used to feel bad lying to him, but after everything he's put me and our sons through, I don't feel the least bit bad anymore. The only thing I was feeling bad about was the fact that I no longer feel bad when lying to him. This video gave me peace of mind. After all, it's not as if I'm lying to everyone in my life. It's just him. ❤
And when they catch you in a lie, they are almost gleeful that they now have something else to use against you, to beat you down with. But still you have to find a way to have a life and hope that you are more successful with being discreet. It is painful. I am careful that I do not lie to others because I do not what to become a "liar."
Yes, absolutely! You would rather lie than fight!
Towards the end of my marriage I spent money on furniture, appliances, linens, amenities, etc, for an Airbnb space-without telling my ex because I knew he would object and I knew we needed to invest in the space for the venture to succeed. And I did it using a new credit card that I did not tell him about. But yes, on that ickier level, I also lied about my drug use on at least one occasion.
I lied relentlessly as a child and it ate me up alive. I didn't want to lie, but the alternative was dad's brutally mean bullying. I wanted to confess to various messes or mistakes, but the anguish I did to myself was less destructive than the man of the house would do. It was horrible.
Yes, it can.
When stopping by a market for 15 minutes to buy groceries is interrogated for two hours, and it ends up with an accusation of cheating, you learn to hide the fact that you bought garlic!!!
Being married to a narcissist was hell
For me I was in my late teens and was sent to the store. I went to the bank to open a new bank account then had my funds diverted to the new account. Afterwards I dropped by the store and got the small thing I was sent for.
Months later family member was caught by surprise the funds weren’t in the old account. It was lying by omission for me.
This was the main thing that led to me wanting to withdraw from a relationship with my sister. I felt like I had to be more agreeable with her, but the thing that really got to me was that she put people between each other during disagreements. She'd fall out with someone else in the family and come to me for validation, explaining the situation in a way that whatever I said would be twisted and used to make things worse. When I told her I didn't feel comfortable being in the middle she entirely blamed the other person for putting me in that position. I felt partly responsible for how she treated others and twofaced, but if I didn't take her side she'd turn against me in the same way or try to convince me that others were lying to me. I also regularly felt anxious and stressed in case it ruined my other relationships. I've questioned myself if some of these problems are my fault, but I was trying to protect myself and keep the family together while dealing with a difficult relationship. I'm also the youngest and it's not fair that I had to carry the weight of this. I have to keep reminding myself of that.
The concept of "walking on eggshells" implies that you NEED to lie. And not talking or limiting information is not an option, one can´t take the fifth cause the narcissist will push hard for explanations or details. They are master interrogators; they sound like police interviewers and the victim has to learn how to talk around like criminals do on movies; until he or she is able to go no contact.
I love this women , she’s been helping me grow from my narcissist since I was 21 , I’m 26 now still healing from the long term affects of the abuse
Yes, all the time. I actually hate it. But, I always excuse myself because I tell myself God knows that I am protecting myself
I constantly have to lie to the narcissist because of pure self-defence.If I do not lie,she knows where am I or what am I doing,than she is trying to schedule my time for her reasons or she makes up such lies in the family about my activities that it is amazing to hear.Disgusting.I can not tell to her anything honestly.no no no
My Mum actually liked it when i lied. Its like she was allergic to the truth.
Lies are usually nice, simple, well packaged and easy to digest. Truth is of complex, hard to understand and difficult to face.
I love the way you always share your own experiences with us. Makes me feel like I'm not as messed up as I think I am!!
When I was a teenager my mother “borrowed” money from a college savings account. She had me go with her to the savings and loan and we sat down with a lady from the bank. When she asked me if she had permission to take money out of the account I said yes. I didn’t even know there WAS an account. So she had me lie for her.
She’d make a big production out of how “good” she was but her life was a lie. She was SO afraid of being seen, warts and all.
It isn't a breech if its a protection against narcissistic harm towards to person or something irreparable. Because narcissistic harm can be toxically epic.
I have not told a big lie but I have withheld information that would have been useful to the narcissist in order to protect others.
One of the hardest things in being angry with my mom is knowing she became who she is to survive her dad's judgement. She lives in a dishonest fantasy world because he demanded it and the consequence for being a flawed human being was his rejection, and oh yeah, eternal damnation. Her entire life is an obsession with getting to Heaven because that will prove she is good enough to him, who died twenty years ago but haunts her eternally. Being honest was never an option for her.
Yes, to protect myself as I plan my escape 🙏. He lies and cheats. I am a truth teller and it goes against my grain to lie, but it is survival at this point.
Such a useful perspective! Sadly, while I understand these survival strategies and have absolutely used them myself in my narcissistic family system, I also see how these toxic patterns of lies and inauthenticity become generational. The central theme of "having to lie to keep the peace" becomes a very slippery slope, and I had to unlearn these instincts as a young adult when I was finally out in the world on my own. I think the goal is to surround myself as much as possible with people who never make me feel like I have to lie to survive.
Life in general is one big lie, dealing with co-workers, friends, family, the government to the sports we watch where gambling is involved, salespeople and advertising.
I definitely lied by omission plenty times to my ex as she would get upset that I would hang out with my friends or want time to myself to work on my car. It started out, in the beginning of the relationship, that I would lie to my friends about not feeling good or things like that to avoid my ex getting upset at me for wanting to go out with my friends. Then, when I realized she was going to continue to do whatever she wanted, I started lying to her about being out with friends. Even at the end of the relationship, I lied to my friends about what all actually happened to protect her reputation. I truly hated myself after the relationship because that kind of lying isn't me. I blamed and hated myself until my therapist helped me realize I was doing it as a protective measure and not with any malicious intent
The biggest lie I told my narcissist ex and also myself - that I was OK when I wasn't.
I was once chatting with God about honesty when I was out hiking all alone. He pointed out a guy coming toward me on the trail, and said, "Are you going to tell him you are all alone?"
These very important general principles do have their limits as does everything else. "Nope," I replied, "I'm going to tell him my husband's just around the bend back there going to the bathroom."
Your darn right, I lied in that relationship out of survival and to hang on to what little sanity I had left.
Thank you Dr. Ramini, just, thank you from the bottom of my heart. ❤
I call it 'keeping the peace'. And, yes, I don't like myself for it. But it's better than the being harangued for days about bs.
This is a dynamic point!
Isn't it just what they wanted you to do?
Be authentic.
this is very powerful. it will never be more, cannot be changed and cannot be improved. something that needs to be accepted and something most people struggle with.
This might be my favorite video I've seen of yours, I'd love a playlist of all the different character "failings" caused by these relationships.
You don't even need them when you know what you are doing. At the end they become passive aggressive, hostile, looking for everywhere admiration and even more controlling...
Thank you for sharing it’s helping my journey with an abusive narcissist husband, my second marriage and worse than the first. It sucks it took me 2 marriages both relationships spanning 31 years of my life to understand how narcissistic people operate and why I’ve been so easily taken in by them. If I get out of this one I’ll never make this mistake again.
Of course it does. My narcissistic mom and brother gave me no choice but to become a liar about everything - what I want to do, who I am, who I want to be, how I truly feel. To survive, I had to become a villain and a self hating liar that wasn’t permitted to succeed.
Dealing with a narcissist I have two choices. One is to say, ‘yes, dear, you’re right,’ when I know damn well he’s lying and gaslighting, the other is to try to reason using logic, which, as we all know, doesn’t get far with a narcissist. Sometimes lying works very well and at least befuddles him for a while. The joke is that I was considered to be very trustworthy and honest. He’s told me at times that I don’t have to be quite so truthful to everyone. So yes, it eats at my soul but sometimes it’s the only tactic I have that slows my descent into madness.
Indeed, Oversimplifying, as if it's ever so black and white with these toxic personalities (eg, "lying is never ok") , is not healthy or helpful. Thank you for these clearly communicated discernment convos.
My narcissistic ex made me feel like a prisoner in my own home. I had to tell her I was leaving for a day and I’d be back, because I felt my safety, health and well being were in jeopardy. I still feel guilty to this day because I was raised never to lie for any reason. I still hate that I was put in that situation.
So many great points here. It's like you were looking into my past life with my ex. He caught me in a lie, and from then on, he labeled me as a liar. I only lied to protect myself from his rage, which I knew was coming. There was no point in defending myself because he always thought he was right. Thank you for this!
This topic has been on my mind lately. Especially now that I am in therapy and trying to figure out who I actually am vs what my family of origin role says I should be.
I called out sick for the past Christmas and have been feeling like a failure for not being able to communicate honestly- which would have been a disaster.
23 years ago my mom stabbed herself in the abdomen with a kitchen knife in an effort to win an argument with my dad. I was there too and the argument was about serving ranch dressing with veggies at my wedding reception. My dad left the house shortly after she did it and she looked at me and told me that she was now going to die and it was my fault. She adamantly forbid me from calling 911 and went to lay down on the couch. I went downstairs and called a neighbor who then called 911 for me. In hindsight, I should have just picked up the phone and called anyway. But I was still in the fog and fear of doing something that would provoke her anger and more violence. The paramedics hauled her away kicking and screaming about how she was refusing services. The surgeon had to open her belly to find out what she had damaged with her stupid narcissistic tantrum- she had punctured her liver.
This was 2 weeks prior to my wedding and she had taken over so much that I didn’t know what was done and not done. I have mixed feelings about lying about not calling 911- I wasn’t about to let her pin that on me, but in a way I feel like the evil person she says I am for defying her.
And this is exactly why my current situation has to end. This very point lifted the veil for me.
I'm glad you asked that question because I know I've certainly lied about where I've been when I've been somewhere else just because of growing up with my parents especially my mom needing to know where I am at all times. I understand some people could argue it's good parenting and I ought to be glad she cares but I have got to the point where I think she doesn't need to know where I am all the time but it's that kind of intense scrutiny where I feel I can't move sneeze or breathe with her knowing about it so if I could get out of something I'd do it to avoid the hassle, the drama that would follow if I said the truth. If I said I was at a nail bar, I'd get bombarded with comments like why you are a nail bar for? Your sister and I can paint your nails perfectly. We can give you pampering here. Obviously I hate to come across as ungrateful but if I'm doing something for me I don't want to be talked out of it (like can't you do that later? Your sister needs you to watch her kids. Move the appointment for next Monday. If you do it now the beautician will be in a rush to do it and could spoil your nails - you don't want wonky nails do you?" So I've lied because I've wanted to do something because I want it because no I dint want to move or change my appointments due to her schedule. Or it's the badgering, have you done this? Have you done that.
Thank you for acknowledging lies as self defense. Nothing like relating to narcissistic tendencies to help one develop a lived appreciation for moral ambiguity. My antidote, at least 2 or 3 relationships where its safe to be honest and undefended most of the time.
I'm usually an honest, authentic person. But as you said, telling narcissists a truth they don't want to her is self-harm. So I already learned growing up how to become a convincing liar.
Telling the truth does feel like self harm. And that turns into self blame because you blame yourself for the reprecutions for telling the truth. But hold on your truth.
I started to tell a lie here and there just because I realized my sincerity was constantly being mocked or disrespected. They knew I was lying, but it was a "back at ya" moment to them compliments of me.
Whenever I see these videos I immediately want to answer the title question. The answer is yes! I became a liar without realizing. And there came a day when I had to face my own dishonesty because I hated it. And that is when the crap hit the fan the hardest. I wasn't lying for fun but because I always knew what the "right" answer was. I stopped giving the "right" answer so I could be honest and they did NOT like that. I broke the status quo. And we're not talking about life shattering stuff here, I'm referring to the mundane like, "hey, have I told you this already? -yes, you already said that." Narc dad threw a fit.
Lifetime enabling will no doubt sooner or later catch you up in the web of lies and deceit. It's a lose lose relationship anyway you look at it. Tragically those rose colored glasses as a survival technique will blind us and worse
.Thanks for sharing these life lessons Dr.R.
TLDW; Absolutely. It's a reaction, NOT reactive abuse, when run as defense. They can't be abused. Their brain can't define it.
Before watching the video, yes, I've been turned into a liar & so have my children. The best psychologist I ever had told me, think of it as self preservation.
We were taught when we were children not to lie, you'll be in less trouble if you tell the truth. Not true with a narcissist. Being honest is detrimental to my health & well being. I'm almost living a double life. Lies of omission, cover ups, & bald faced lies were & still are, a way of life married to a narcissist for 34 years. I still consider myself an honest person, which sounds nuts. I often think of that great line of Jack Nicholson's in A Few Good Men, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!
Yes!!!! You HAVE to lie because they will say something like, “did I ever alter at my kids bad?” And they know you will be too afraid to be honest because then they will accuse you of disloyalty and hurt, etc. And it’s all just a ruse anyway so that they can rewrite history, and getting you to play along helps them to cement it in their mind that they are only a victim of someone’s unwarranted anger, etc. I know, because I was used this way a LOT.
YES!! All I saw was the title of this video, I haven't even watched it yet. And I live this almost every day.
You have to lie - or at least remain silent at their wheedling/entrapping manipulation/interrogation - to survive and keep yourself safe whilst trying to keep something, some part of things however small, on some sort of even keel!!
And the dissembling required when you cannot get away from them because of housing situations etc, is one only way to level the playing field to any degree for yourself! I've also experienced that when I do this, they register it as some type of competence, equality and power in me. Which throws them off balance and quiets them momentarily. Also relaxes them - until they pick up on it then they will have an outburst because you've been lying to them if they figure it out. It's like there's a quiet grounded mommy in the room taking over, over them. For a minute.
It's soul destroying and exhausting to navigate and keep up with, to become a dishonest person - which is entirely not natural to me, and the topics I have to do it on or so tiny and trivial! Like things like silverware and food in the house, where things are placed, just stupid crap. I CAN WRITE A BOOK😮
I have a suspicion that most people who grew up with these disorders were brushed off by, lied to and manipulated to heck and back a lot by their own parents - who may have been unable to deal with them as children as well as having problems of their own. So when they experience certain things like this from us, it makes them feel strangely comforted for a minute, or a day or two.
They will use your honesty, good natured-ness, caring, altruism, calmness, all or most of your good and best qualities, against you. To control, feed off of, entrap, discombobulate,, destroy. I feel for them as human beings, but it's demonic.
Absolutely! It was ingrained in me from the time I can remember as a child to get my parent to stop raging.
Convince her I’m sorry even when I was innocent. Trying to figure out “my motivation” she believed because she had to know “why I did whatever I did” even if I was innocent.
Yes. She taught me to survive I had to lie. Then called me a liar and she hates all liars.
Thank you. I just left another narcissistic relationship and was confused and felt guilty about lying to him not long ago. You are right, it was immediately weaponized and I feel like I understand everything so much more after watching some of your videos. Thank you so, so much ❤️
This is an important aspect of being safe! I have to say I omitted large parts of my life to avoid interaction because I knew there would be no support! I have no regrets! My family members who display NPD traits seem unwilling or unable to self regulate! I am not interested in forced connections or being in a needless power struggle!
only ONE person can lie in a narcissistic relationship & that’s the narcissist. they don’t even know why they lie half the time.
When you speak truth to a narc= you're condemned & shamed for life.
When the narc lies= you're condemned & shamed for life.
I found myself lying about the stupidest things to my narcissistic roommate. There was one point I wanted to get myself a soda from a vending machine at our apartment complex. He hollered at me because I even mentioned using my own damn money to buy an overpriced soda instead of going to the store and getting a six pack. I found myself sneaking out to occasionally pick myself up a soda from this machine while walking the dog to keep him off my back.
I understand. Ironically, your honesty about lying is healing to understand sometimes it is the best option. My current partner is not a narcissist and I sometimes have anxiety about telling a difficult truth about, for example, a mistake I've made. But, I want an honest relationship as much as I can have one, because in the past I had to go against my own nature and lie to people I was accountable to who possibly had narcissist personalities. I am so relieved not to be in that position now. I still have contact with a couple of people that may have NPD. They are not easy to be authentic with. I appreciate what you've explained here, because it is a real phenomenon and preservation technique.
I used to lie when people asked me why I wanted to be a preschool teacher. It was actually my parent who wanted me to work as a preschool teacher and I did as my parent said because my parent had that kind of control over me and my life. I had rehearsed an answer that I rattled off when someone asked me. But it never felt good to lie and it felt like I was living someone else's life.
Narcissists lie to us so that they can get away with things that they shouldn’t be doing… We lie to them so that we can do the things that we’re supposed to be doing without getting the crap kicked out of us or screamed at
After being w a narcissist, you change profoundly and it would be remiss to say that one of the lessons learned is not to trust anyone at face value and to play by your own rules within the boundaries of not hurting anyone else because trust is out the window and it’s never coming back.
lying to a narc is simply self defense and protection😊
Lying to save yourself from abuse is not really lying. It is self preservation.
Basically you end up being someone you’re not and it leads to hating who you are in that relationship.
Brilliant thought-piece!
[Among the necessary evils & conundrums of narcissism -- "(ethically) manipulate the manipulator": Performative perfunctory lies/alternate reality (coping mechanisms) compounded by the narcissist’s manipulative delusional lies...]
Absolutely, they turn you into a liar! The guilt of those lies, even tiny ones, can be wearing but to avoid the rage and manipulation of the narcissist is worth the untruths to keep your sanity.
I love how Dr R acknowledges that getting away from a narcissist isn’t always an option.
This is why I have become more concerned about WHY people lie rather than just the fact that they are lying. If you are lying to save someone's life then I definitely can understand and have no problems with it. Thank you for this post.
Plan for a departure like abused spouses learn with help. If you hear stories personally, your clients have money. Grown people have options of becoming independent even if it is by taking classes online to prepare for a job. Get your papers, money, exit strategy together and go.
The problem is when you have the "find me" turned on, on your phone and you can't "lie" about where you are, and you can't turn it off because that will raise lots of red flags for the other person.
Yesssss i have found that lying for me has become a defense mechanism for me and i got goooooood at it 🤷♀️sns... i also lied about who i was because i was embarrassed of who i was due to the narcissist mental abuse. I strive in telling the truth now and it has landed me evicted from family farm/compound 2weeks ago. Im on my freedom ride now ❤🎉 cut ties with the cycles i cant break. I went on a journey after I learned about my mental health the cycles and all the roles that each individual family member played thanks to a wonderful therapist I had found in Minnesota and then I found Mel Robbins which is where I found you Dr. Romani and I so want to thank you Cause the last two years of watching your videos has really taught me a lot now while I'm breaking these cycles I see what a good liar I became and the toxic traits that I picked up from my narc mother so with that being said I'm still a work in progress but thank you thank you so very much I bought a bus after I watched the first video I seen of yours that's what I mean by my freedom ride so thank you and Mel Robbins for making me believe in myself giving me options to change my ways repair what I can and walk away from what I can't