War Thunder F2P Progression is UNREASONABLE
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- In this video I sound off on Gaijin's unreasonable progression model and bad in-game economy. To date players have review bombed War Thunder on Steam due to horrible economy changes.
#warthunder #gaijinentertainment #warthundernews - Ігри
The insane greed has to end. The game is made from top to bottom to frustrate and thats honestly a disgusting way to run a game. Keep up the fight everybody!
Yeah, making a game painful to play unless you pay is not the way. That just makes people quit early. Having more players with less harsh monetization should fill their coffers just as good. Happy players will spend money more often. Frustrated players build resentment.
4:25 gajin has prooved trough the years that they can create really fun coop pve modes but they only implemented that as a one or two days event, it integrated all of those events into a coop pve mode they could make a lotof money, people is willing to pay a lot if they can have with their friends.
Exactly, I’d be willing to pay if I was having fun in coop.
10:04 they not only did not listen, they actively censored people that gave feedback.
Yup, things escalated quickly too.
Used to potato in World of Warships and spent some money. Potatoed a bit in War Thunder. One change, and only this one, worked. Wargaming reduced by a lot the repair costs. People could, then, play what they wanted. Before they had to play lower ties and premium ships to farm "silver" instead of having fun in the ships they liked or needed to improve for clan battles and King of the Sea tournaments.
Yeah, I’m a WOWS refugee as well. Generally, in WOWS I can play the ships I want and the economy is pretty sustainable. It is pretty oppressive in War Thunder. I’m not a content partner so I have to grind everything. The contrast is night and day between WOWS and WT.
I played roughly 32 hours (according to Steam playtime) over the course of 2 years. in the beginning, I was able to unlock 2 tanks and most of the upgrades for said tanks, and about 5 planes with most of their equipment unlocked. In the plane matches, I am competent, and I usually return to the game for them, but the tank matches are what I would want to play and are the reason I always leave for months or years at a time. I never managed to get to 3BR, I did manage to get to 2.7BR, but it was rebalanced to 2.1BR at some point. Sure I would like to play higher BRs, but I sure as hell am not able to invest hundreds into a game and still say I have fun with all the shiny cosmetics and basic loadouts. Hopefully, Gajin will learn from this and get their act together at least a little bit, but I have very little faith in that. They might very well fight their player base until the game is dead and abandoned. If not Gajin, I suppose other companies could learn from this and not follow in their greedy footsteps.
Yep, I suspect your experience is the norm. Gaijin ignored this and now its blowing up in their faces. I love the game and there is nothing else on the market like it. That is the problem. No competition.
@@AlphaHeavyGamer Yeah, I even remember originally going to World of Tanks after uninstalling War Thunder the first few times... found the damage system laughable at times and others just annoying. I no longer play World of Tanks, but here is to hoping I can play a better war thunder in the future. Really hoping to get a HOTAS setup for an interceptor I was able to get a ton of kills within VR. Also hope they allow for readjusting VR playspace in the game in the future as it is kinda annoying to have to hang out the cockpit and take potshots at planes in front of me due to shifting in the games startup xD
Speaking about the unlocked modifications, I got the german t72 recently, and I can tell that until I got the fire protection, I was set ablaze every game.
Yeah, its not tinfoil hat thinking. It really seems like if you don’t have certain modifications unlocked the algorithm repeatedly places you in disadvantageous matches. Magically, once you unlocked thermals for example the frequency of night matches drops off drastically. It’s anecdotal I know but it appears real.
Researching the exact same shell for 8 different vehicles,
Love your work Alpha.
And I totally agree.
Gaijin and War Thunder specifically have done a huge disservice to themselves and their community by not updating the economy properly as the game progressed.
Had the level of progress stopped at tier 5 basically stopping at prop planes or early jets, the economy would be just fine and the time frame it would take to unlock 1 or more trees wouldn't be wholly unrealistic or disheartening.
I stopped playing for a number of years in part because even before tier 5 and 6 it was stressful to work on unlocking even one nation tree, and as someone who wasn't able to fully grasp how to play the game properly then, it was in part my own fault in not getting how to play the game, but also the game not having a potential game mode or ranking system that would allow me to play with others around my skill level.
Many years later when I finally got a grasp for it, and when vehicles came out that I really wanted to play, I was motivated to play a lot more.
For example after a long break, the Mig-23M came out and I wanted to play it and see what it was like, plus I wanted to play more modern jets, cause props had by that point lost a lot of it's appeal.
Now I was really behind on planes, I was around mid tier 4 at that point in time in the game. It took me something like 4-5 months, to finally reach the Mig-23M, of course the Mig-23MLD was out by then so the work was longer still and the Mig-23M was fairly disappointing. And I had to spend some money to get the SL to purchase the vehicles, let me add that it didn't require much money to do this, but I still had to do it none the less. And the Tier 5 jets were just painful to play, that's not entirely surprising due to how basic those jets were but the Soviet Jets were even more painful in that they carried even less ammo than their prop counter parts, and those already didn't have a lot of ammo. So those I spent a little more money desperately skipping through, cause they just weren't fun. They weren't all bad, but they just weren't that fun.
Of course once I got all the Air and Ground trees unlocked I had to look for something else to work on, but the more I looked the more I didn't want to put in the work, cause I knew that locking another entire tech tree was gonna be at least 6 months of hard playing, and likely more since the meta was always changing and I wasn't always gonna do well, which meant that I was gonna have to spend even more money to speed up the unlocking, and buying of planes, which I'm totally fine doing on occasion or on the one plane I just completely despise playing.
But having to do it for much of an entire tech tree would be far too much.
The premium jets or more specifically the F-4ADTW for Japan was a great help to unlocking the Japanese Tech Tree, but again we come to a problem in that it's 70ish$ per premium plane, and the F-4 ADTW was painful to play due to it's subpar radar and missiles. But thankfully it was possible to earn a great deal of SL with it, but the counter point is that once I'm done with it, it's no good to me, I can't use it to unlock other trees, not that I'm surprised it doesn't, the ADTW doesn't belong in other nations, and Gaijin can't make money if 70$ is all it took to unlock everything in game, though they would get a huge boost in sales for at least a short time.
I hesitate to join any boycotts or review bombing campaigns, in part because as disappointed as I am with the economics of the game, I haven't had toooooo much of an issue with it. I want to unlock other nations and tech trees, but the time and grind it takes to do so is the bigger problem for me than the SL, I have ways of earning money in Gaijin in that I don't have to spend money if I absolutely don't want to or can't afford it. Of course the exchange is time, which I can give up if I'm motivated enough for the vehicle or mode to spend that time. The problem is coming back to the problem that I will have to sacrifice A LOT of time in order to do this for almost every plane, tank, ship or whatever I'm working on and that's the problem, to unlock one tree was bad enough, to unlock 2, 3, or 4 trees I don't even want to think about, and I don't have thousands of dollars to blow on this game, as much as I do enjoy it at times.
So that's what I really hope gets fixed, I can live with spending some money on GE for SL from time to time, or paying for premium to help with SL gain, but Gaijin must also include a reliable way for non-paying players to make money. Obviously Gaijin can't create a way for a player to earn 1,000,000 SL in like 5 bad games, otherwise nobody would pay, Non-paying players have to sacrifice time to earn SL that's the cost they have to pay if they don't want to pay money, but to be fair to them, they have to reliably earn money, not steadily lose money to the point where they have to spend money just to get where they want to go, or even just to stay in the game, that's what definitely not fair right now and needs to be fixed, aside from how long and tedious it is to grind out a single line in a tree, never mind an entire Air tree or ground tree.
Thanks! I really appreciate you watching. You made several great points and frankly I couldn’t have said it better. Gaijin owes players, even new ones a reliable way to level up in the game. A way that is sustainable for their bottom line and genuinely positive for the players. I would love to unlock more content but the time investment is prohibitive. The cost is enormous to skip. Naval comes to mind. It’s interesting but not compelling enough to invest the massive amount of time I know it would take.
@@AlphaHeavyGamer I actually stopped playing USSR and Germany coastal because I got to 2.0-2.3 and went, "Eh this is good enough, just sub-chasers being used as gunboats above this anyway."
Correction, even with premium time and top tier premium vehicles, progression speed still needs to be doubled at top tier.
IT USED TO BE PAY TO SKIP. im getting tired of people not realizing that F2P players cant even make a profit in game because the economy is so fucked. theyve nerfed the economy so hard that premium players are feeling it.
Exactly
Well said! I stopped playing awhile back because the rewards were not worth the grind. That grind is worse than the original World of Warcraft grind, and that's saying something!
If you give players worthwhile rewards I can promise Gaijin it will work. From my perspective it wouldn’t hurt them at all. Happy players spread positive vibes and it attracts even more players. The problem is monetization is getting worse every year. They don’t need to make All of the money.
@@AlphaHeavyGamer Indeed! Honestly I really did enjoy the game, and if they do something like that, I would happily return. YOU HEAR THAT GAIJIN?!?!?! And I know I'm not alone in that sentiment.
I quit the game years ago, when they started introducing vehicles that went beyond the original max 1953 scope.
Back then, it was already a ridiculous chore trying to even spade a rank 4 prop if you were playing as F2Player. From what I can gather, they've only made it much worse since then, which makes me happy that I quit when I did.
What surprises me is that it took this long for other people to come to the same conclusions. I guess most people have a higher pain threshold than me.
As for the review bombing, what else are players expected to do? Feedback on the forums was constantly ignored, all the way back to like 1.27. If you keep screwing players and ignoring their complaints, eventually they'll find a way to hit you where it hurts the most. You reap what you sow.
Yeah, when Gaijin started adding post Cold War era vehicles they probably should have just separated it from the WW2 stuff. Frankly, I was burned out on WW2 vehicles. I’m super not interested in that era. I came for the modern stuff. But the modern stuff takes too long to get to for most players because they have to play though a ton of stuff they don’t care about. As for what players should do instead of review bombing? I don’t know but if what has already been done works players should consider changing their reviews. I don’t want the system burnt down. Just changed for the better.
Imagine if their World War things were a persistent warfare MMO match like Foxhole. It would be revolutionary and they could have such a powerful spin on the genre.
Lots of lost potential to be sure.
Lol when you said the thing about night vision it reminded me SO MUCH of the battle pass tasks....if you get "destroy 6 enemy bases" you can rest assured you will get mostly "air domination" matches...unless you pay silver lions to change it something else.Don't even get me started on popping boosters...there is definitely some larceny behind that.When I restarted playing last year I can't believe I actually tried to get better boosters through air assault arcade lol!And of course the infamous being "Gaijined"...researching something such as a crew skill or vehicle and you finish your match POSITIVE that you finished the research but boom...guess what...you usually have to spend golden eagles to finish it!
Thanks for mentioning spading. Yes, repair costs suck, purchase costs suck. But the cost of modules is what makes most games far more painful than they need to be. For me at least. Unlock a vehicle, and the vehicle is badly nerfed. Ok, most of us could accept being a seal to be clubbed for 5-10 games. But no, unless you get lucky or you are super skilled it takes dozens, some people with some vehicles hundreds of games to get to spaded. And then you have a lovely, full capability vehicle. But you’ve just played it dozens or hundreds of times. You’re understandably bored and want to move on, as the game steers us. So for most of us, most of our play is with one hand tied behind our backs. Other than premiums. Oh… I see… :D
It’s one of the worst features of the game. I hate spading vehicles because it sucks the fun out of having it. Playing it in a bad state makes you burned out on it once it’s spaded.
9:22 i have more tan 14000 hours on the game, i own dozens of vehicles that i want to play but i dont play because they have an unreasonably high repair cost and at this point i feel that i can only play what the game lets me play not what i want to play. This issue isnt fixed by paying either since with some vehicles even with premium account you will loose sl.
Yeah, I feel you. I hate how you essentially are gated into playing certain vehicles or a certain way. If this dystopian 1984 type of economy were ditched who knows how many people this game could attract. This is what happens when you feel you must make all of the money.
@@AlphaHeavyGamer Is really sad how the game has over a thousand vehicles, a lot of them with unique and very interesting weapon systems and we still cant play them all we want.
Its like with the Saetta P-494 i wanted to play it so bad when it came out since it had that interchangeable turret or the missile plataform but the repair cost was just nuts.
I think that the root of the problem is that gaijin revenue source is tied to the ingame economy but if they just came up with other busines model we could play in peace
During the boycott, some players have pointed out that Gaijin is likely faking online player numbers by activating AFK accounts. Player count is abnormally high midnight and some AFK players reported receiving login notifications.
The grind is outrageous. I have just surpassed 3000 hours in game (a decent chunk of that is afk, but probably no more than 500 hours), and I still do not have a single top tier vehicle. To be fair, I do “main” five different tech trees and I play a little bit of all of them, but I still think with the time I’ve put in that I should at least be at the end of some tech trees by now. I play ground and air. I’m a very good tanker and an above average pilot I’d say. I’ve also had premium account and many premium vehicles for most of my 3000 hours. If I can’t even get through the grind, I can’t imagine what the more casual players deal with.
I can’t wait for June 14th. I just know the community is going to explode. Because they won’t listen and will do the absolute minimal to the issues everyone is angry about
This is the time where Gaijin has to lose the hubris and listen to their customers. It’s now or never for them. Imagine going bankrupt because you didn’t listen to feedback.
@@AlphaHeavyGamer lets just hope they will actually gona do some actions like give some SL To every player who is near going backrupt or something like that so that they can get back to playing, together with reducing or removing repaie costs it would do huge + to ingame SL issue at least for now
I wanted to try to play and decided to see som fresh opinions on game. Thank you for helping me decide. Back to search :)
No worries! Things have changed a bit for the better though.
Bro im so glad someone is talking about it!
The Premium Account is the payed Cheat Tool that the own game provides.
im tired of getting killed by on hit in every mode just because i cant afford to Pay...
Im going to say the same thing as i said on Reddit...
"Gaijin has a stable community, with players who pay periodically for new features, they don't want new players, if they wanted they would be engaged in sponsoring or at least giving gifts to UA-camrs who kill themselves to create content with this game, they just maintain the existing community by responding to some requests from the community... Emphasis on "some". Therefore they don't need, don't want and won't make the game more accessible, in fact it will be the opposite, and unfortunately thats is how a game dies."
💯
The fact that you cant play what you want to play wether you paid to have it or not
That is a painful fact that Gaijin must rectify. Players that are dissatisfied because they can’t play what they want makes people leave.
I dont care if the progression is slow but what you get should feel rewarding in a proportion to the time that it took to get and top tier in war thudner inst anything like that. Not only the kill to death ratio to not loose money is ridiculous but the skill needed skyrockets too.
At least as a reward for the years invested to get to rank VIII we should be rewarded with a significant sl modifier.
For me the game progression if I were strictly free 2 play is too slow. Even with premium it could take months or years if top tier is what you want. Gaijin has reduced rewards over the years so much it’s actually sad.
@@AlphaHeavyGamer People has proposed to split ww2 and post ww2 vehicles in diferent trees since forever but thats gaijin whole sale point for top tier premiums so its never going to happen.
Warning this game can give you depression!!!
Lol, indeed.
Totally agree
I agree with every word, but I think you're missing one big point Gaijin needs to change: Transparency. They need to open up their statistics to the public (via API so that it is always live and up to date) so that we can see for ourselves if one vehicle or another is over or underpowered. The "myth" (Gaijins words, not mine) about the Russian bias needs to die and this is how we kill it. This transparency should in the future also move on through everything they do, not just this part.
I would love that and great point. Let us see what’s going on. Players will make better decisions if they know what’s going on.
@@AlphaHeavyGamer i feel that together with the fact that they had NUKED the NEGATIVE reviews from 100k negative, back to 19k negative,
They will simply not gona do anything about they economy and that they had done the apology letter together with the promise of roadmap just to make comunity shut up. And forget on all /:
Imagine the new player experience thats tuff
I agree, I gave up the game 2+ years ago due to the seemingly endless hours grinding through Tank I don't care about. It also does not help that the bias toward Russian players/tanks/vehicles is so bad. In truth the gajin top people seem to me to have the Putin/Russian attitude that we should bow to their ideas.
Playing through vehicles you don’t care about is one of the worst aspects of this game. I’m super not interested in WW2 vehicles. I came for the modern stuff. The fact they frustrate players with walls of content they are not interested in baffles me. If people could play more of what they want they would stick around.
@@AlphaHeavyGamer they should let you start at rank 4-5 so that you can at least skip the most of the ww2 stuff in all tech trees+ you could grind the ww1 and ww2 stuff any time later
Agree with every bit of it. This game is unique it its genre, but grind and slow progression kills the game some time in the future. Like I never had fun playing in higher tiers.
You are right, grind is way too slow, and the devs saying "You can't give a player everything at once, because it will overwhelm... blah... blah..." is
ridiculous considering how much time you need to research JUST ONE FUCKING VEHICLE.
😂
bro your video just spoke my mind.
Thanks for watching man! Glad you liked it.
Its a good game but the grind and the greed of the owners is too much. I have about 10 premiums and im struggling.
Stop buying premiums starting the 26th. We need to send a message to Gaijin.
@@Frank-pc2rs And so it begins!
Kinda funny that after 10 years and something like 8k hours of f2p, I have finished all Italian tree's, German ground and Air, in UK air I have a FG.1 and a Jag, US ground and France ground are at 7.7. thats not much just because I didnt pay gaijin
You must pay the snail 🐌 to progress, lol.
im impressed honestly you know how bad you have to fuck up to cause players to revolt
Lol, royally. I knew their ways would catchup to them. I didn’t think it would be this year though. This is a massive catastrophe for them.
pve sucks in general sadly, no reward even if you get to the end. literally no reason to do it, no reward, and poorly balanced with only really good tanks doing well. so even if you have tanks if its not good youll just not do well
it isn't really review bombing this time tho, it is just true reviews, sure there are people hopping on a bandwagon but most are honest reviews
Yeah, I guess if you have played more than a dozen hours it is actually a review.
I always compare it to WoWs: do well, get rewarded well. Do poorly get rewarded poorly. Im at 100 something hours now, and I have a few nations on level 3 ships and one on level 6-7. I paid for premium once. If i do well I get about 10% progress to the next ship, if I do poorly I get about 5%. 10-20 games per vehicle (at least at stage7) is fine and fun. given theres only like 30 per nation. I actually want to spent like 10 or 20 bucks for a unique premium ship.
War Thunder: Im not that good. at Tier 5-6, I usually lose money. Forum was like "just play low level vehicles". Which is the dumbest advice ive ever heard: in order to play a vehicle I unlocked with like 20-40 games, I gotta play a different (less fun) vehicle I dont even want to play? Yeah no this is simply harrassing people who dont pay. Also Premium doesnt even make it balanced, its just "less unfair" to you.
A disgrace of a F2P game. Warframe simply shows how its done.
100%
Currently I'm enjoying all these videos that people are making. Rather than using this as an, "I told you so," as someone who's quite for the majority of the past 5-7 years I'm just happy that 90% of the community figure out the blindfold was being pulled over there eyes again.
Who will break first is a question to be answered another day, but y'all seem to give me hope.
Thanks. I originally played World of Tanks before moving seriously over to WT. I immediately noticed the monetization and progression was drastically worse. I wondered how long it would take for customers to get fed up. Wonder no more. I’m not a content partner so I have to grind everything just to show it on the channel. It’s really pretty insane.
personaly i like a strictly grind game, if you have the time, it can be fun
That can be fun. Especially if I don’t care about end game content as much. My issue is I’m not terribly in love with WW2 vehicles.
900 hours without any pay...
What am I doing?
LOL
I wish Gaijin would look at the skins shops of western games and the gacha style eastern games and pick one. Both are better models of monetization than the current one. Warthunder could easily use a skin shop with all sorts of cool 3D effect skins and the like. They could even leave the opt in feature for non historical stuff like they currently have for people obsessed with historical accuracy. I imagine they could have skins on sale that would make a fortune, especially if they had actual events with other franchises like Fate, NeiR, and others.
Well, they have apologized and are working on a new economy roadmap to be released 14 June. Perhaps that will be a part of the reworked economy.
@@AlphaHeavyGamer DON T so easily believe to what they say REMEMBER they will allways try to SHUT UP whole comunity and then they try to implement those changes again silently
Warframe is amazing in that way I can't agree more
I love that game.
Warframe i my most favorite and most likely THE best F2P game in terms of progression and accessability because you can just get EVERYTHING for free, even the paid "premium" currency you can easly earn by playing and using the market.. you can reach the endgame in few weeks of grinding and even then, the endgame months of content for average playtime.
Yep, the game is awesome.
Congrats to the entire WT players community for letting Gaijin get away with it for so long!
Premium progression is all that matters gaijin doesn’t give a fuck about the plebs that whine when they don’t spend a dime. If you don’t like free to play what obligation does the company owe you? What investment have you made that they should do anything differently. All men act on incentive and leverage you give them none of the former and have none of the latter. Invest in the game or stop bitching. Hail Capitalism
There is room for nuance. I made that much apparent. No game runs on gratitude. Nothing in life runs on gratitude. But excessive greed has its disadvantages.
My favorite thing you mentioned is play well get rewarded well play like shit you don’t get shit I agree the economy is bad and only getting worse but I can’t help but notice that the most people complaining are simply just not good at the damn game sucks if it’s one of you but as I said the economy isn’t great but it’s manageable for me at least I rarely leave a game without 6 kill’s minimum so losing money isn’t really a problem for me that’s without premium and with it I dunno how some of you folk are losing money unless again like I said you’re flying out your f16 that you unlocked with let’s be honest your wallet and you’re dying due to the fact that you didn’t earn it thus you never learned how to play at top tier essentially I agree there needs to be change but I don’t think the majority of people who should decide what changes are the people that aren’t good which usually consists of people who don’t play like they’re on a team, the premium one death leavers, shit like that I know I’ll get hate for this take that’s just cause people are sensitive and that’s ok just don’t be lol
War thunder has an extremely high skill ceiling and you cant expect everyone to dedicate the time and effort to learn it, there are people that just want to play for an hour after work while turning off the brain, they deserve to have fun too.
@NDFGaming If (any) game punishes "noobs" for a score even slightly better than 1 to 1 then Im not surprised that most bounce back. I guess WT advertises itself as a quasi battle simulator and not a military minister simulator where you have to embrace the budget of this pathology and there is always a lack of funds for modernisaction.
Yeah, if you aren’t very good you have to learn. One shouldn’t expect high rewards for bad play. You should just earn zero SL imo, never earn negative. This will keep new players hopefully engaged and as they improve their SL position will improve.
@@StrayGuard that’s such a horrible point to argue like I said predatory practices by the devs are bad and if the game is made in such a way that no matter how good you do you can almost come out negative on profit etc is a problem that I agree should be fixed but changing the game as a whole just cause people want to turn their brain off and not learn their vehicle such as how much armor it has or what kind of rounds it has they shouldn’t just get a free pass and everything that someone who goes in, knows the game, and gets 20 kills gets that’s ridiculous and the sad part is is that I’m pretty sure those are the people that gayjoob is listening to they’re listening to the people that want to take the easy route in buying vehicles the people who think the turmsT or su25 have skill included within the vehicle pack and when they get shit on in their tank or plane they didn’t earn or learn due to buying their way to the top they become the one death leavers this completely ruining the experience for everyone else this simply shouldn’t be allowed buying into top tier is probably my number one issue with the game cause I get positive gains nearly every match cause I took the time, learned the game and am just not shit but back to your original argument csgo is a competitive game also with a fairly high skill ceiling do you feel the same about that game? Should they turn aim assist on cause people can’t bother to practice the game and learn how to aim? Fuck no cause that completely defeats the purpose of the entire game war thunder is free to play so I agree it should have a relatively long process to get to the top that might be an unpopular opinion but that’s just a fact it shouldn’t be easily obtainable cause then what’s the fucking point what should change is punishing players for doing very well if you buy the turms even if you get no kills and tank like 10 rounds as they often do you may not get 10k rp or 100k SL but I can guarantee you won’t come out of the game with its negative income simply cause you paid but so often I’m on the top of the team in my merkava for example and I’ll drop 14 kills in the fucking thing and upon returning to the hangar I only get 10k rp and 100k SL what the fuck is that bullshit I don’t do that all the time but a more common game for me is a cool 6 to 8 kills and I earn the exact same amount of rp and SL that’s the problem with the game atm alongside the never ending premiums each update there should be no cap and no punishment for doing well that is absurd