I cannot express my thanks for this content you and Karl are providing for free. For someone who started raising my own goat herd 5 years ago, I would suggest any beginner to listen to this episode several times. What he explains in one hour I had to learn in 5 years of trial and error. Thank you so much!
I have had pyrenean mountain dogs (Livestock guardian dogs) all my life and my this breed has been a passion of my mum and her parents since the 1960s. I can vouch that they are the BEST family dogs, they mother and love us (especially the kids) but they are protective amd very , intelligent, independent minded, efficient guard dogs so owners need to have a strong personality to successfully raise them. Hope that helps
We started Homesteading 6 years ago. Started with chickens for eggs then Tamworth hogs for meat and piglet sales. I already knew how to deal with those. We fenced our entire 7.5 acre perimeter and already had dogs. I no longer work due to a car accident, so I spent years watching YT and researching. Got Nigerian Dwarf goats for milk. Sell kids, occasionally milking does and use milk for us. Friends gave us 3 unknown breeds hair sheep, I think St croix/Katahdin and maybe some Gulf Coast. We bred up to 9, traded some for a breeding pair of young lowline cattle. Bull still under 2, heifer almost 3. Bought 2 unrelated Katahdin ewes and maintaining 3 ewes to 1 ram plus. All animals have their own pens. Goats have a small milking shed with attached stalls on the outside. Breeding pair of hogs moved every few months with hog panel and electric pens. Grazer/browsers get to have access to entire property most good weather days. The front of the house is fenced off to keep livestock away from house. Chickens and turkeys have a coop with yard but come out and free range all day. Meat chickens have a chickens tractor. Parmak Solar Electric, cattle fence and goat fence has kept everyone in and a Labrador cross, a Belgian shepard and an Anatolian shepard keep the predators out.
A good practice for hoof health is to spread coarse gravel and a lot of lime around their watering trough. They'll be exposed to it daily and the lime keeps down bacteria.
I free range my goats during the day. I find that they will naturally rotate their browsing. They will make a circuit around the barn, browsing different areas at different times.
Ma'am I absolutely love your videos. This is insanely helpful, and I really appreciate your cadence and pronunciation which is fun, eloquent and easy to understand but it's never hyper or simplistic. Independent of the awesome content and everything, you are one of the best spoken youtubers I have ever seen. God bless
We use livestock trailers to move them on pastures and then leave them there as shelter. We put feed in the trailer they all follow close up the trailer and go.
recently purchased small acreage in southern Arkansas 🤠, I want to thank both Karl & yourself... this information will serve me well as I begin building my farm 🚜 God Bless... you both
@tckingfish Don't know where you're moving from but there seems to be plenty of rainfall down here... And the heat and humidity can get downright unbearable.... I'm near hope arkansas how about you??
I have watched my LGD "condense" (because it's not really herding) the goats, chickens, and ducks close to the barn when she thinks there is a threat. I even saw her stand with the horse when she was on high alert, the horse standing slightly behind the LGD. I was amazing to see how they sort of teamed up, yet the one with the skill took the lead.
If it’s not herding it’s definitely herding adjacent. I saw a pair of pyrs react to a coy dog pack once. They bunched the flock, and then one kept them together while the other ran to the edge of the paddock where the coy dogs were coming down the hill hollering murder at some lucky creature they were after. They had no interest in fighting a pair of well fed dogs. I think once it reaches a certain size every flock needs dogs so the shepherd can sleep easy. That farm was had a lot of bears and bobcat also.
You can treat your ground with diatomaceous earth it’s a powder and most parasites and bugs can’t live in it. It’s pretty cheap and it also treats intestinal parasites if you mix it in their feed.
These are stomach worms, DE doesn't effect those stomach worms. DE gets under the carapace of the bug and kills it, all bugs. DE kills good bugs too. Stomach worms do not have a carapace.
We have somewhere between 30-40 cross goats. We raise them for weed control as much as for love. (I do not use chemicals or sprays on my farm.) The sheep, though, are more profitable, IMO.
I use electric on the outside of a mesh fence to be predator and hog proof. In other areas, I've excluded hogs with a single hot wire about 12" high. It works really well for that.
So I’ve done some rotational grazing studies at UCSC, and one thing I learned is that yes the grass recovers in 30-45 days (depending on water) and can be grazed again but that 60 days gives enough time space for parasites to die off. Not sure if that is with 100% consistency but relevant info. Thank you so much for this wealth of information and content. I’m intending to do fire grazing with goats in the fire danger areas of the Santa Cruz Mountains, and I’m trying to figure out if milk or meat goats is a better fit for this business model. I’m guessing meat goats since they won’t always be on site for milking and I don’t want to miss milkings. I’ll still be getting some Milk goats for personal homestead food production but the logistics is a problem. I’m only worried about a good meat market for the goats, maybe the Hispanic population around here would like them but I don’t hear about Silicon Valley folk liking goat that often.
60 days off pasture to guard against barber pole worm, is recommended by Cornell University. And, you have a Muslim community in your area who would probably buy goats to.
@@BlueSpoonFarmthank you for the reference and another community to market to. I’m up on the land, off grid where I have permissions for a herd of goats, and I’m also aiming for mini sheep and Dexter cows for diversification and handling different brush layers.
Excellent content. Because of its length, I put off watching for quite a while, so glad I made the time this morning. Great job tracking down some of the generous, friendly, experienced folks in your area for your own mentorship and sharing that gift more broadly. This stuff is truly some of the best elements of being involved in agriculture.
This was the best video ! Good info for me. I hope to get a few soon. I am burned out on goats not respecting the fences. I would like to try sheep.south central Kentucky. 35” average rainfall. Thanks again!
Another great vlog, goat is the most eaten meat in the world. I’ve not tried it, I think it would be a bit lean for my liking.😊but one thing with goats or sheep higher reproduction rate and much quicker to a saleable product.
Waooo, what a beautiful explanation, thank you so much, make me remembering my childhood, as a grew n a kurdish village with kangal dogs grazing sheeps, goats and cattles , Lady , wish that could find a lady like you toe my6 farmer queen,
I recognize this man just by his voice.. first time I ever see his face, but I have watch some of his videos before so where here on UA-cam.. great man!
Do chickens and goats share the same parasites? Could you use the Joel Salatin method of following a herd with chickens and they will clean a paddock of pests? He does that with cows, what about goats?
I am not a farmer, but am very curious about what it takes to be a farmer in todays world. I know nothing about goats, but found this discussion very interesting. As a typical grocery shopper I never think about about the farmer’s problems with parasites and the amount of pasture the farmer needs. Did I hear it right that a pasture of long grass creates less of a parasite problem than short pasture? If I heard right that’s the opposite of what this uninformed person would have thought.
Yes, that's right. The parasites spend their entire life cycles within inches of the soil (when not inside a host). If sheep or goats are forced to eat grass very close to the soil they will pick up much heavier parasite loads than ones that are allowed to eat the stems of longer grass.
Awesome video. My family just bought 38 wooded and brushy acres in an area with 24" of precipitation, but most of that snow. We'd like to run goats. Lots of great info here. 😊👍👍
I heard him say he’s in North East Texas. We’re in West Central Arkansas. Pretty close I think. I’m wondering if he’d allow anyone to go visit his farm. This is our first year doing goats and I would like to see his operation. Thanx
what age should you harvest free range boer goats and whats a natural wormer would diamascious earth work in water. What should be done if family bloodlines accidently breed? Thanks for your time and videos.
A video from the Iowa organic association that I was watching the other day claimed that some round worm parasite species eggs on pasture were still viable for 4-6 years.
Thank you for the video, really interested in goats! Can you interview a shepherd from California? It has a mediterranean-type climate and I've heard that in such climate rotational grazing is ineffective, as most grasses are annuals and don't really resprout.
Chickens will poop all over the pasture and the goats will not eat anything dirty. Chickens come after the goats. Keeps goats off pasture for 60 days. Chickens follow the goats 10 to 30 days after. That will give grass time to rest.
@BlueSpoonFarm we are raising Boer Goats and wool sheep. Sheep cannot eat copper, goats need copper in their minerals to thrive. Boar buck should not be put with Boer bucklings. He will hump on them to the point of broken legs in your bucklings. Just don't do it. Kids and lambs for sale in NY in the spring.
do you or Karl utilize EBVs in your breeding/buying decisions? how do you determine what new genetic lines to add to your flock? (if i missed that in the video, just point me to the timestamp. i was working while listening so it's possible io missed that section)
Some of my sheep develop blindess i am treating them with oxytetracycline and an antimicrobial spray for the eyes i understand it comes and goes.. any advice on what to do once they get better
There are so many wild goats in Australia they are hunted 24/7/365 in the bush. Most just feed the meat to the dogs. A few will take prime pieces to the kitchen. Personally, from my limited experience of the meat I would just let it lay for scavengers to eat.
I am researching about starting a goat business, meat goats, and maybe start with 10-12. Many have mentioned about having a "guard dog" because of potential harm from coyotes. How effective would a donkey or mule be for this purpose?? How well do goats get along with donkeys of mules?? Thanks!!!
The biggest problem you have in the lamb market is that imported lamb from Australia and New Zealand are generally cheaper and of higher quality that their US counterparts.
I’ve been raising meat goats for 60 years but not boar back then, it was all in the breeding for size and meat Yes have lots of boars and cross for meat It’s not cheap to do but saleing 10/15 show goats sure help out Never buy a billy unless it’s with 5/6 or breeders Switch out billy every year
🐑🥩CLICK HERE for my FREE GUIDE to raising beef and lamb: bit.ly/bflmbGUIDE
I cannot express my thanks for this content you and Karl are providing for free. For someone who started raising my own goat herd 5 years ago, I would suggest any beginner to listen to this episode several times. What he explains in one hour I had to learn in 5 years of trial and error. Thank you so much!
Love this feedback! Thank you!
Thanks so much. Is this also considered regenerative farming when you put hay bales on the paddock?
Yes! Bale grazing is a great way to restore soil health.
@@theShepherdess Hallo madam i need job in goat farm am and farm house please help me
I have had pyrenean mountain dogs (Livestock guardian dogs) all my life and my this breed has been a passion of my mum and her parents since the 1960s. I can vouch that they are the BEST family dogs, they mother and love us (especially the kids) but they are protective amd very , intelligent, independent minded, efficient guard dogs so owners need to have a strong personality to successfully raise them. Hope that helps
We started Homesteading 6 years ago. Started with chickens for eggs then Tamworth hogs for meat and piglet sales. I already knew how to deal with those. We fenced our entire 7.5 acre perimeter and already had dogs. I no longer work due to a car accident, so I spent years watching YT and researching. Got Nigerian Dwarf goats for milk. Sell kids, occasionally milking does and use milk for us. Friends gave us 3 unknown breeds hair sheep, I think St croix/Katahdin and maybe some Gulf Coast. We bred up to 9, traded some for a breeding pair of young lowline cattle. Bull still under 2, heifer almost 3. Bought 2 unrelated Katahdin ewes and maintaining 3 ewes to 1 ram plus. All animals have their own pens. Goats have a small milking shed with attached stalls on the outside. Breeding pair of hogs moved every few months with hog panel and electric pens. Grazer/browsers get to have access to entire property most good weather days. The front of the house is fenced off to keep livestock away from house. Chickens and turkeys have a coop with yard but come out and free range all day. Meat chickens have a chickens tractor.
Parmak Solar Electric, cattle fence and goat fence has kept everyone in and a Labrador cross, a Belgian shepard and an Anatolian shepard keep the predators out.
A good practice for hoof health is to spread coarse gravel and a lot of lime around their watering trough. They'll be exposed to it daily and the lime keeps down bacteria.
Great tip!!
Salam ngarit salam sukses 🐏🐐🐑
Is lime also known as Barn Lime?
This is some of the best content on YT.
I free range my goats during the day. I find that they will naturally rotate their browsing. They will make a circuit around the barn, browsing different areas at different times.
I'm starting a milk goat herd... this will help ty so much!!! 66 acres grazing... love your videos!!!
Ma'am I absolutely love your videos. This is insanely helpful, and I really appreciate your cadence and pronunciation which is fun, eloquent and easy to understand but it's never hyper or simplistic. Independent of the awesome content and everything, you are one of the best spoken youtubers I have ever seen. God bless
Thank you very much! This is really encouraging.
I just love her voice
Salam ngarit salam sukses Mikey Austin 🐏🐐🐑
Mike Austen comments- right on
We use livestock trailers to move them on pastures and then leave them there as shelter. We put feed in the trailer they all follow close up the trailer and go.
The knowledge and wisdom from this video is really helpful to new farmer like me, thank you, My contribution is to not skip the Ads.
recently purchased small acreage in southern Arkansas 🤠, I want to thank both Karl & yourself... this information will serve me well as I begin building my farm 🚜 God Bless... you both
Congratulations!!
Salam ngarit salam sukses Real Talk 🐏🐐🐑
I’m moving to SW Arkansas in January to start my homestead.
@tckingfish
Don't know where you're moving from but there seems to be plenty of rainfall down here... And the heat and humidity can get downright unbearable.... I'm near hope arkansas how about you??
@@tckingfish
Wish you the best
Grace this was an excellent learning experience. I could have listened to you teo for another hour easily.
I have watched my LGD "condense" (because it's not really herding) the goats, chickens, and ducks close to the barn when she thinks there is a threat. I even saw her stand with the horse when she was on high alert, the horse standing slightly behind the LGD. I was amazing to see how they sort of teamed up, yet the one with the skill took the lead.
LGD considers it self part of the flock
If it’s not herding it’s definitely herding adjacent. I saw a pair of pyrs react to a coy dog pack once. They bunched the flock, and then one kept them together while the other ran to the edge of the paddock where the coy dogs were coming down the hill hollering murder at some lucky creature they were after. They had no interest in fighting a pair of well fed dogs. I think once it reaches a certain size every flock needs dogs so the shepherd can sleep easy. That farm was had a lot of bears and bobcat also.
That's what my Great Pyrenees and llamas do. Teamwork.
You can treat your ground with diatomaceous earth it’s a powder and most parasites and bugs can’t live in it. It’s pretty cheap and it also treats intestinal parasites if you mix it in their feed.
These are stomach worms, DE doesn't effect those stomach worms. DE gets under the carapace of the bug and kills it, all bugs. DE kills good bugs too. Stomach worms do not have a carapace.
@@BlueSpoonFarm as they eat it threw digestion it shreds there intestines no such thing as good bugs
@@Justthemow that is not how DE works.
@@BlueSpoonFarm yes it is I’ve done it to treat for bugs around my house for years and it’s the main ingredient in 7dust
630 as starting, holy cow,
i started my with 5
We have somewhere between 30-40 cross goats. We raise them for weed control as much as for love. (I do not use chemicals or sprays on my farm.) The sheep, though, are more profitable, IMO.
i just found your channel today, and it’s great. This interview was great, thanks so much.
Great and instructive interview. I learned a LOT!
What a FANTASTIC video!!! Great Information. Thank you for posting this. I gave you a big thumbs up.
I use electric on the outside of a mesh fence to be predator and hog proof. In other areas, I've excluded hogs with a single hot wire about 12" high. It works really well for that.
Grace
A book suggestion for your online store.
The Meat Goat Handbook
By Yvonne Zweede - Tucker
I’ll be at work but listening in tonight
So I’ve done some rotational grazing studies at UCSC, and one thing I learned is that yes the grass recovers in 30-45 days (depending on water) and can be grazed again but that 60 days gives enough time space for parasites to die off. Not sure if that is with 100% consistency but relevant info. Thank you so much for this wealth of information and content.
I’m intending to do fire grazing with goats in the fire danger areas of the Santa Cruz Mountains, and I’m trying to figure out if milk or meat goats is a better fit for this business model. I’m guessing meat goats since they won’t always be on site for milking and I don’t want to miss milkings. I’ll still be getting some Milk goats for personal homestead food production but the logistics is a problem. I’m only worried about a good meat market for the goats, maybe the Hispanic population around here would like them but I don’t hear about Silicon Valley folk liking goat that often.
Carnivore diet people would be interested.
60 days off pasture to guard against barber pole worm, is recommended by Cornell University. And, you have a Muslim community in your area who would probably buy goats to.
I love goat, the price per pound here in Toronto Canada. Ranges from 13 to 18$ per pound.
@@BlueSpoonFarmthank you for the reference and another community to market to. I’m up on the land, off grid where I have permissions for a herd of goats, and I’m also aiming for mini sheep and Dexter cows for diversification and handling different brush layers.
I came here for the great content, but your style of interviewing is very easy to listen to. Bravo
Excellent content. Because of its length, I put off watching for quite a while, so glad I made the time this morning. Great job tracking down some of the generous, friendly, experienced folks in your area for your own mentorship and sharing that gift more broadly. This stuff is truly some of the best elements of being involved in agriculture.
Thank you for doing this, i am thinking about doing meat goats and sheep
Ok was up
This was the best video ! Good info for me. I hope to get a few soon. I am burned out on goats not respecting the fences. I would like to try sheep.south central Kentucky. 35” average rainfall. Thanks again!
Thank you for your knowledge of goat farming. I am a goat farmer from Indonesia, I have learned a lot from your Chanel.
Another great vlog, goat is the most eaten meat in the world. I’ve not tried it, I think it would be a bit lean for my liking.😊but one thing with goats or sheep higher reproduction rate and much quicker to a saleable product.
That was great. Really helped answer some important questions for my daughter and I.
Can you follow up your herds, rotating chickens or guinea fowl after the goats/sheep to clean up the parasites in the pasture?
I believe that is what Joel Salatin of Salad bar Beef does.
Waooo, what a beautiful explanation, thank you so much, make me remembering my childhood, as a grew n a kurdish village with kangal dogs grazing sheeps, goats and cattles , Lady , wish that could find a lady like you toe my6 farmer queen,
would leave Vancouver, Canada and live on mountains do goat and sheep farming
don't know why can't do spell check here
Late to this video, but the information is still highly relevant and informative. Thank you for sharing the interview!
Wishing you and your family always healthy and happy
Thank you. I finally took the time to listen to all of this.
I recognize this man just by his voice.. first time I ever see his face, but I have watch some of his videos before so where here on UA-cam.. great man!
Outstanding interview, tons of useful information! Bless you and thankyou!
I loved this! Really great and informative information! Thank you so much! God Bless and Merry Christmas!
Looking to your next episode 🎉🐏
A lot of this tips are super important. A lot to learn from this video. Thanks
Your guides are amazing. Thank you so much.
Hello. It was awesome and so very informative. Thankyou sooo much and kindly keep it up. I am now one of your most loyal subscribers ❤
Such great info! Thank you for putting this out there.
Salam ngarit salam sukses mimi 🐏🐐🐑
Thank you both so much! Looking at goats for clearing poison ivy on about 4 acres. Very informative!
Do chickens and goats share the same parasites? Could you use the Joel Salatin method of following a herd with chickens and they will clean a paddock of pests? He does that with cows, what about goats?
Good fences make good goats!
I am not a farmer, but am very curious about what it takes to be a farmer in todays world. I know nothing about goats, but found this discussion very interesting. As a typical grocery shopper I never think about about the farmer’s problems with parasites and the amount of pasture the farmer needs. Did I hear it right that a pasture of long grass creates less of a parasite problem than short pasture? If I heard right that’s the opposite of what this uninformed person would have thought.
Yes, that's right. The parasites spend their entire life cycles within inches of the soil (when not inside a host). If sheep or goats are forced to eat grass very close to the soil they will pick up much heavier parasite loads than ones that are allowed to eat the stems of longer grass.
Salam ngarit salam sukses 🐏🐐🐑
Did the free webinar happen already? Once again thank you for all you do.
Awesome video. My family just bought 38 wooded and brushy acres in an area with 24" of precipitation, but most of that snow. We'd like to run goats. Lots of great info here. 😊👍👍
Dang it guys you have a lot of good information
I've always said a whitetail is a woods goat
I love your videos and how you have branded you image
Round of applause… great stuff. Learned more stuff lol. 👏🏾👏🏾
🔥Join my NEWSLETTER so we don't lose touch: bit.ly/ShepherdessNWSLTR
Very good video. No problem you went a bit long, well worth it!
I’ve been digging for the Clemson deworming dosage chart. Did anyone find it and if so could you share?
I am in Missouri just east of KCMO and I am 70 years old and need to find help do you have any ideas 💡 FHA, college or?
Another excellent video. Loved the combined expertise from both of you!
Thank you for this.
Both been amazing.
I heard him say he’s in North East Texas. We’re in West Central Arkansas. Pretty close I think. I’m wondering if he’d allow anyone to go visit his farm. This is our first year doing goats and I would like to see his operation. Thanx
Great commentaries,like this
Thanks for your time.
This Minnesota goat rancher thanks you for this! 🤠👍
I use electric net fencing and have not had any predator issues.
What would it cost to fence off 600 acre???
Where do you buy 600 goats from, I really would like to know.
Awesome video, thanks! Tons of good info.
Great podcast. Thank you
what age should you harvest free range boer goats and whats a natural wormer would diamascious earth work in water. What should be done if family bloodlines accidently breed? Thanks for your time and videos.
Thanks for this information
A video from the Iowa organic association that I was watching the other day claimed that some round worm parasite species eggs on pasture were still viable for 4-6 years.
Very informative!
Is it true that you need to rotate the different types of dewormers
Thank you for the video, really interested in goats! Can you interview a shepherd from California? It has a mediterranean-type climate and I've heard that in such climate rotational grazing is ineffective, as most grasses are annuals and don't really resprout.
Healthy food…started 2 years ago w 4 goats now have 15 soon to be 17-19/ 7 rabbits and 6 chickens for now
Wonderful talk, thank you for sharing!
Thanks for the video! Where do you feel chicken rotations fit with possibly shortening the rotational grazing time?
Chickens will actually eat a lot of the grass, so I think it probably ends up being the same!
Chickens will poop all over the pasture and the goats will not eat anything dirty. Chickens come after the goats. Keeps goats off pasture for 60 days. Chickens follow the goats 10 to 30 days after. That will give grass time to rest.
This was really helpful. Thank you!
Excellent thank you
loved it
@BlueSpoonFarm we are raising Boer Goats and wool sheep. Sheep cannot eat copper, goats need copper in their minerals to thrive. Boar buck should not be put with Boer bucklings. He will hump on them to the point of broken legs in your bucklings. Just don't do it. Kids and lambs for sale in NY in the spring.
How important is registration? Is a great unregistered herd for meat just as good as a registered herd for meat?
No need for registered animals of meat is the only goal. 👍🏻
How do guardian dogs react/interact with herding dogs?
Karl mentioned Clemson University worming calendar for goats. Do you have a link to this that you could share?
do you or Karl utilize EBVs in your breeding/buying decisions? how do you determine what new genetic lines to add to your flock? (if i missed that in the video, just point me to the timestamp. i was working while listening so it's possible io missed that section)
Some of my sheep develop blindess i am treating them with oxytetracycline and an antimicrobial spray for the eyes i understand it comes and goes.. any advice on what to do once they get better
Use chamomile tea for eye issues. Restrain animal and use eye dropper to administer a few times daily to eyes.
There are so many wild goats in Australia they are hunted 24/7/365 in the bush. Most just feed the meat to the dogs. A few will take prime pieces to the kitchen. Personally, from my limited experience of the meat I would just let it lay for scavengers to eat.
Goat meat is delicious! Bucks may taste Bucky during breeding season.
Ethics is the biggest buyer. Aussies are accustom to bland meat
This was fantastic
We get like 200 inches of rain a year and mid 70's to mid 80's year round.
I am researching about starting a goat business, meat goats, and maybe start with 10-12. Many have mentioned about having a "guard dog" because of potential harm from coyotes. How effective would a donkey or mule be for this purpose?? How well do goats get along with donkeys of mules?? Thanks!!!
Get an LGD. Love mine😘😘😘😘Every thing knows my dog on the job.
Apparently, donkeys are great guardians . I have heard of them kicking a coyote through the air and it ran away.
The Turkish guard dog is called Kongal.
Great for cross also
I have wanted to have goats for a while. I have just completed my enclosure. Now I need to work on the fence. I need help with nutrition
Good show
This breed they are also for milk or only for meat ?
Thanks for the info.
The biggest problem you have in the lamb market is that imported lamb from Australia and New Zealand are generally cheaper and of higher quality that their US counterparts.
Interesting. I'm an Aussie, just brought some cheapies $8 a sheep. A small roast lamb in the supermarket here is $15-18 a piece
Bluefield Virginia 45 inches
Does the wormers and parasite drugs affect the meat or birthing?
On the point of raising sheep and goats together, it is ok but a lot of goat feeds are high in copper
What about Donkeys for your livestock guardians?
600 goats must have been the most fantastic lawnmower ever!
I’ve been raising meat goats for 60 years but not boar back then, it was all in the breeding for size and meat
Yes have lots of boars and cross for meat
It’s not cheap to do but saleing 10/15 show goats sure help out
Never buy a billy unless it’s with 5/6 or breeders
Switch out billy every year