Are LSAT Accommodations Unfair? | Thinking LSAT, Ep. 446

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 18 вер 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 17

  • @whitneychanell
    @whitneychanell 5 місяців тому +4

    Also worth noting that more people may be applying for accommodations because thanks to social media and videos like this one more people are even finding out that accommodations are possible.

  • @user-fo3ie2qp1c
    @user-fo3ie2qp1c 6 місяців тому +23

    Accommodations are created to level the playing field for people who have disabilities. The issue is not people receiving the accommodations the issue is how easy it may be to get accommodations because of laws favoring and over protecting disabilities. If these cases were actually vetted, I think it would be less of an issue.
    There is also the issue of people not getting the proper accommodations for their disability, the LSAT says only students with vision issues get 100% and we know that is not correct.

    • @bikerboy9010
      @bikerboy9010 Місяць тому

      I agree with you how accommodations are about leveling the playing field for people with disabilities. Accommodations are about leveling the playing field instead of unfair advantages. When someone is blind, they're not able to see their test, which causes them to not be able to accurately demonstrate how well they know and understand the material on the test, and the purpose of taking a test is to see how well you know and understand the material. When blind people get an accommodation of having their test in braille or being allowed to take an oral exam where they tell the teacher what they think they answers to the test are, the blind person is able to accurately demonstrate how well they know and understand the material.
      I agree with you how sometimes people don't get the proper accommodations and some people get accommodations that they don't need. Some people have been wrongfully diagnosed with disorders that they don't have, which can cause people to get accommodations that they don't need. Some people do cheat the system, which is wrong and unfair. The vast majority of people that get accommodations truly need those accommodations in order to accurately demonstrate their skills.
      When I was in college, professors didn't give extra time on tests to just anyone that wanted extra time. When I was in college, the only way you could get extra time on tests was if you had a doctor's note, formal documentation, etc that proved that you have a disability or medical condition that causes you to take longer than normal to finish tests. When I was in college, the only way someone could have an accommodation where they took tests in a private room was if you had a doctor's note, formal documentation, etc that proved that you have a disability or medical condition that causes you to need a private room to take exams.
      Some people think the private room accommodation to take exams in is an unfair advantage when in reality it's not. It's definitely very fair to have a private room accommodation (with someone in the room supervising you to make sure you're not cheating). It would be nice for everyone to have a private room to take their exams, but colleges often have limited private rooms available, which is why colleges have rules where the only way you can have a private room to take exams is if you have a doctor's note, formal documentation, etc that proves that you have a disability or medical condition that causes you to need a private room. This is why in college they only want people taking exams in private rooms if they truly need a private room accommodation. If someone doesn't have a disability or medical condition that causes them to need a private room accommodation than they don't need a private room accommodation.

  • @DanielHoweIUPUI
    @DanielHoweIUPUI 6 місяців тому +6

    So I got injured in Iraq, I'm half blind, one-handed, TBI, etc. I know you do not oppose extra time and suggest it may be too lenient. In undergrad, I received 1.5x time; it was plenty. However, I could prep for all my classes, and my tests had less reading. The LSAT prep (Khan) I've been doing is demanding on time, with 1.5x. The structure of LSAT, primarily in regards to the amount of new information/reading, is such that LSAT accommodation is more reasonable than any other need for accommodations I've had. The test throws out the ability to use many of the learning tools I've built over the years to the point that it's reminiscent of when I was in cognitive rehab learning the tools I use now; as in contrast between doing something without the tools vs. using the tools my therapist taught me. I've been using things like text readers, but those come with their own problems. The nature of this test format makes time accommodation more reasonable.

  • @yl4134
    @yl4134 4 місяці тому +4

    If the average score of the accommodation group is higher than the average score of the group without the accommodation, then it is unfair. To make it fair, the score should have different scales between the two groups so the score distribution will be similar.

  • @whitneychanell
    @whitneychanell 5 місяців тому +5

    I’m a 37yo Black female with ADHD + anxiety taking the LSAT for the 2nd time. 1st time years ago, I did a year of law school and had to stop because of life and finances. I didn’t even know accommodations was a thing. I had a really hard time getting a Dr to be willing to even fill out the form for me. Finally had to see a new doctor who was willing to. That said, once I started taking PT with the additional time, I noticed I scored higher BUT didn’t even actually use much of the additional time. Just knowing I had it helped me focus better on what I was reading instead of being a mentally jumbled mess with anxiety. I tend to need all of the time for RC, but “not need it” for LR. I’m sure I’m not the only one who performs better just from knowing that time is available but not actually using it all. Thank GOD for accommodations knowing I can get them alone has given me more confidence studying and I finally feel I can score in the 170s.

  • @TheQuestion27
    @TheQuestion27 6 місяців тому +3

    What would be the ideal solution? 8 extra minutes and 18 extra minutes, depending on the case? The 8 minutes would be for ADHD, anxiety, etc. And the 18 for visual impairment and “extreme” cases?
    The problem with this plan is that those who are indeed suffering learning/processing disabilities would be put at a big disadvantage if they were not able to get the 18 minutes in this scenario. And how to go about deciding who gets what accommodation would have to become far more stringent. That could lead to discrimination litigation

  • @girlwithathought2940
    @girlwithathought2940 6 місяців тому +4

    Nerves get the best of me on test day. I’ve performed at the bottom of my range twice

  • @TheHouseElf
    @TheHouseElf 4 місяці тому +1

    Kind of wild how this "works." Getting ADA accommodations at work and in school can be really hard. Even with medical certification of the disability, usually disability coordinators will engineer a way to do as little as possible for you to keep things from being "unfair" in some way, e.g. opportunity to make up an exam in a test center another day, ability to agree on alternative day to submit an assignment, use alternative equipment or have lighter duty on a task that causes your symptoms to flare up...
    I got all of these things for my migraines in the past, but it's like going to war. I can't imagine just asking for help and getting it, let alone using a condition to gain an unfair advantage. Schools/employers ought to consider being more open to modification of their programs for sure, but it seems to me like the LSAC just will give people what they ask for just to avoid another lawsuit. That is just a surface impression though.
    Good faith willingness to modify and accommodate takes work from both sides.

  • @bikerboy9010
    @bikerboy9010 2 місяці тому

    A lot of people think that when people with ADHD get extra time on tests in school, college, etc that it's an unfair advantage over other students when in reality, it's not. It's understandable why many people think it's unfair for people with ADHD to get extra time on tests. The truth is it's only unfair to give people extra time on tests if the purpose of the test is to see how fast you can accomplish something like taking a swimming test in order to be a lifeguard or taking a running test in order to be a police officer. If someone is taking a running test in order to be a police officer where they have to be able to run a mile in 15 minutes or less in order to pass the running test, it would be an unfair advantage for some people to be held to a 20 minute or less standard for passing the running test while everyone else is held to a 15 minutes or less standard because the purpose of the running test is to see how fast you can run, to see if you can run a mile in 15 minutes or less, to see how fast you can accomplish something, etc.
    The purpose of taking a Math test, Science test, History test, SAT test, Accounting test, Engineering test, etc is to see how well you know and understand the material; not to see how fast you can finish the test. The main reasons why many teachers, professors, etc have time limits on tests is to keep people from taking advantage of unlimited time and to help prevent students from cheating. With unlimited time on tests, some students would take advantage of the situation and never finish their test. With unlimited time on tests, students would be allowed to spend several days taking the test, which can increase the likelihood for cheating since when students go home, it's extremely easy for them to look at their notes and then change their test answers the next day when they finish the test. These are the reasons why many teachers, professors, etc have time limits on tests; not because the purpose of the test is to see how fast you can accomplish something.
    Certain kinds of disabilities cause people to take longer than normal to finish tests. People with ADHD often take longer than normal to finish tests due to focusing issues, paying attention issues, concentration issues, etc associated with their disability. When people with ADHD don't get extra time on tests, their test score is often not going to be an accurate reflection of how well they know and understand the material, but when people with ADHD get extra time on tests, their test score is a more accurate reflection of how well they know and understand the material. If someone doesn't have a disability or medical condition that causes them to take longer than normal to finish tests, they don't need extra time on tests in order to accurately demonstrate how well they know and understand the material.
    Accommodations for disabled people are about leveling the playing field, equal opportunity, making sure everyone is able to accurately demonstrate their skills, making sure no one is at a disadvantage, etc; not unfair advantages, not lowering the standards, not lowering the integrity, etc.

  • @TheMrLoucent
    @TheMrLoucent 6 місяців тому +2

    if you have no primary doctor where do you go and what do you say to get the ADHD accommodation?

    • @LSATDemon
      @LSATDemon  6 місяців тому +2

      You can go to a family doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist, etc., and tell them you feel you have ADHD symptoms. If they diagnose you, you can get the relevant paperwork for the accommodation.

  • @breinne19
    @breinne19 5 місяців тому +9

    Your commentary on accommodations being unfair is ableist and ignorant. I'm shocked you'd say these things outloud. Accommodations are never meant to level the playing field because it can't be leveled -- a person living with disabilities will never have the same privileges, access, and ease as a person without disabilities. The purpose of accommodations is to make things more equitable. A person with disabilities may need more to have an opportunity to display what they are capable of and that's ok. It's not an advantage in the game, it's entry into the game. Please educate yourself.

    • @bikerboy9010
      @bikerboy9010 2 місяці тому +1

      I agree with you how accommodations for people with disabilities is not an unfair advantage over other people. The purpose of accommodations is so people with disabilities are able to accurately demonstrate their skills because without accommodations, many people with disabilities aren't able to accurately demonstrate their skills. For example, if a blind person can't see their test, the blind person isn't able to accurately demonstrate how well they know and understand the material, but when blind people have their test in braille or someone records the answers to the test the blind person says, the blind person is able to accurately demonstrate how well they know and understand the material.
      A lot of people think that when people with ADHD get extra time on tests in school, college, etc that it's an unfair advantage over other students when in reality, it's not. It's understandable why many people think it's unfair for people with ADHD to get extra time on tests. The truth is it's only unfair to give people extra time on tests if the purpose of the test is to see how fast you can accomplish something like taking a swimming test in order to be a lifeguard or taking a running test in order to be a police officer. If someone is taking a running test in order to be a police officer where they have to be able to run a mile in 15 minutes or less in order to pass the running test, it would be an unfair advantage for some people to be held to a 20 minute or less standard for passing the running test while everyone else is held to a 15 minutes or less standard because the purpose of the running test is to see how fast you can run, to see if you can run a mile in 15 minutes or less, to see how fast you can accomplish something, etc.
      The purpose of taking a Math test, Science test, History test, SAT test, Accounting test, Engineering test, etc is to see how well you know and understand the material; not to see how fast you can finish the test. The main reasons why many teachers, professors, etc have time limits on tests is to keep people from taking advantage of unlimited time and to help prevent students from cheating. With unlimited time on tests, some students would take advantage of the situation and never finish their test. With unlimited time on tests, students would be allowed to spend several days taking the test, which can increase the likelihood for cheating since when students go home, it's extremely easy for them to look at their notes and then change their test answers the next day when they finish the test. These are the reasons why many teachers, professors, etc have time limits on tests; not because the purpose of the test is to see how fast you can accomplish something.
      Certain kinds of disabilities cause people to take longer than normal to finish tests. People with ADHD often take longer than normal to finish tests due to focusing issues, paying attention issues, concentration issues, etc associated with their disability. When people with ADHD don't get extra time on tests, their test score is often not going to be an accurate reflection of how well they know and understand the material, but when people with ADHD get extra time on tests, their test score is a more accurate reflection of how well they know and understand the material. If someone doesn't have a disability or medical condition that causes them to take longer than normal to finish tests, they don't need extra time on tests in order to accurately demonstrate how well they know and understand the material.

  • @iFrankie.
    @iFrankie. 6 місяців тому +1

    Super unfair.

    • @samuelblackwell5990
      @samuelblackwell5990 5 місяців тому

      Crybaby

    • @bikerboy9010
      @bikerboy9010 2 місяці тому

      I agree how it's unfair for people to cheat the system. I believe people shouldn't have accommodations when they don't need them. I think it's fair for people to get extra time on tests if the purpose of the test is to see how well you know and understand the material, but if the purpose of the test is to see how fast you can accomplish something, I think it's very unfair for people to have extra time on the test.
      A lot of people think that when people with ADHD get extra time on tests in school, college, etc that it's an unfair advantage over other students when in reality, it's not. It's understandable why many people think it's unfair for people with ADHD to get extra time on tests. The truth is it's only unfair to give people extra time on tests if the purpose of the test is to see how fast you can accomplish something like taking a swimming test in order to be a lifeguard or taking a running test in order to be a police officer. If someone is taking a running test in order to be a police officer where they have to be able to run a mile in 15 minutes or less in order to pass the running test, it would be an unfair advantage for some people to be held to a 20 minute or less standard for passing the running test while everyone else is held to a 15 minutes or less standard because the purpose of the running test is to see how fast you can run, to see if you can run a mile in 15 minutes or less, to see how fast you can accomplish something, etc.
      The purpose of taking a Math test, Science test, History test, SAT test, Accounting test, Engineering test, etc is to see how well you know and understand the material; not to see how fast you can finish the test. The main reasons why many teachers, professors, etc have time limits on tests is to keep people from taking advantage of unlimited time and to help prevent students from cheating. With unlimited time on tests, some students would take advantage of the situation and never finish their test. With unlimited time on tests, students would be allowed to spend several days taking the test, which can increase the likelihood for cheating since when students go home, it's extremely easy for them to look at their notes and then change their test answers the next day when they finish the test. These are the reasons why many teachers, professors, etc have time limits on tests; not because the purpose of the test is to see how fast you can accomplish something.
      Certain kinds of disabilities cause people to take longer than normal to finish tests. People with ADHD often take longer than normal to finish tests due to focusing issues, paying attention issues, concentration issues, etc associated with their disability. When people with ADHD don't get extra time on tests, their test score is often not going to be an accurate reflection of how well they know and understand the material, but when people with ADHD get extra time on tests, their test score is a more accurate reflection of how well they know and understand the material. If someone doesn't have a disability or medical condition that causes them to take longer than normal to finish tests, they don't need extra time on tests in order to accurately demonstrate how well they know and understand the material.