Shouldn't Palestinians also Condemn Hamas? | Norman Finkelstein Teach-in on Gaza, Israel, and Hamas
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- Political scientist and bestselling author Norman Finkelstein conducted a teach-in on the current situation in Gaza and Israel at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, via Zoom, on Tuesday October 17th, 2023.
Thank you Norman Finkelstein for your years of speaking out
speaking out anti israel propaganda lies
"scientist" get outta here
Yes. The speaking out really counts when you lose some advantages in life. Dr. Norman sacrificed a lot.
I have learned to be gentle but unyielding with people on these issues. Particularly family.
Sometimes, calm silence is better than a yelling match. And I listen to people patiently.
My utmost respect for Dr Finkelstein
May what you're doing towards revealing and teaching the truth reach the souls of your parents. Thank you!
What a deep and historical professor this gentleman is
Much love and respect for Dr Finkelstein. Truly a gem in our times❤
Dr. Norman Finkelstein thank you for supporting Filistinians and Justice 🙏.
You are among the most honest and righteousness pious Jews. Arabs and Muslims will never forget your stand against oppressions of the Zionists.
Thank you Prof. Norman. l completely agree with you.
Hamas spokesperson Abu Obaida has stated that 85% of the military wing were orphaned by the occupation, therefore I imagine very few of the militants who carried out the operation on 7th October had parents to say goodbye to.
As he mentioned that, i said in my mind, perhaps most of them are orphans
Btw Abu Obaida is not Hamas spokesperson but Al-Qassam's
The armed wing of Hamas. Even though it's the armed wing of Hamas, the politicians do not control their operations.
I would love to meet, Norm Finkelstein, he is an honorable man that many can learn from. I hold him in the highest regard.
God bless & keep Norman Gary Finkelstein.
I listen to everything Norman Finkelstein says. His voice is so important and critical as we face these days of carnage and horror.
Thank you Dr Finkelstein one of the foremost voices on the subject I've learned a great deal from listening to you speak 🙏
Wow! Norman Finkelstein is an amazing man! He has true empathy, which is DESPERATELY needed these days.
I remember being absolutely horrified by the Black September murders in Munich 1972. I was just a kid, but I found it incredibly sad. Years later, I thought “Why did they do it?”, and I thought of what had changed. Before Munich in 1972, I had never heard of Palestinians, but I had learned a lot since then. But I still can barely stand thinking about Black September’s atrocity.
Who was thinking about Gaza before October 7? Practically no one outside of Gaza. If Netanyahu had said he will not retaliate other than bringing the perpetrators to justice (even if it takes decades) and Netanyahu had said that Israel was going to be better human beings than Hamas, Israel would be considered heroic right now - instead of a pariah.
I would add only one thing to what Mr. Finkelstein said: Cassandra was cursed to know the future yet not be believed by anyone. That adds some irony to the woman in the Warsaw Ghetto, because she told the truth, but wasn’t believed.
Wow, so profoundly put. People need to see the whole picture
Well done for speaking out .
An incredible human being..💐
Morally sound, and extremely brave.
Thank you
Thank you for your wisdom and elaborating on this topic
Wow. I've been trying to find the words, and you put it so perfectly. Thank you.
Deepest respects…. 🙏🏾
Your insights are incredible thank you for sharing your wisdom
The Nazis do not equal the Germans, just as Hamas does not equal the Palestinians, just as the Netanyahu regime does not equal the Israelis.
HAMAS's current fight against the Zionists is the PALESTINIANS' fight against the Zionists. They've been un unison with ALL armed Palestinian resistance factions in their fight against the Zionists. Also, the Zionist Entity shouldn't even exist in the first place. It's a literal settler-colonialist apartheid entity
37% of Germans voted for Hitler.
Over 75% of Muslims support Hamas.
Finally someone who also says the facts that I've been saying for weeks. But I should add that MANY hypocrites want you to believe only in the first two. And want you to not pay attention to the last one!
False analogy because Israelis are all settlers and zionists, otherwise they would have left
you don't get the point, germans nazi and non nazi were occupiers in Poland.
Beyond words, so knowledgeable. Thank you
Thank you Prof Finkelstein
from Gaza,
thanks Prof for speaking the truth
The weight of the sheer number of books on this particular issue that are sinking the wooden shelves in the back speaks about this man's knowlegde on the topic.
Having a bunch of books on a shelves and even reading them doesn't guarantee he acquired a knowledge, based on what he's spewing he's engaged in speculations and unrealistic not making any sense comparisons and analogies.
May God bless this man
Mr. Finkelstein Sir, you are a good man
Thank you for doing your part , and a wonderful part it is
Thank you for exposing the inconvenient truth And make it relatable. If you understand the horror of the holocaust and the concentrations camp, then you should understand what is happening in Gaza now. Thank you, Dr. Finkelstein.
Wow. Now that was some deeply moving insight.
The you Mr Finkelstein!
What an articulate man
A man who values truth!
Bless you and love you, Norman Fincklestein. A true uncompromising human being. ❤
All good analogies given here to what is happening now and how the Palestinians might feel about it all.
Respect ❤
So rare to hear people like him.
Well spoken.
The elephant in the room is that the most heavy guarded boarder crossing had no retaliation from Israeli soldiers period. So called Hamus had 7-8 hrs of free range. And also got out with hostages. Reports from people that know the boarder system have said that would of never happened. As in zero retaliation. So was it a false flag to ramp up business as usual
The Israeli govr knew it was going to happen. Egypt warned the Israeli govt 10 days prior. They absolutely allowed it to happen to justify whats happening now. Just how Israel would kill their ownsoldiers etc. to justify retaliation.
Just like how NORAD was rescheduled from an earlier date to instead run training simulations of commercial plane hijackings on the morning of 9/11 causing mass confusion and insuring there wasn't any fueled or armed fighter jets to intercept the planes for over an hour, and the planes that did manage to respond were directed out over the Atlantic ocean rather than to the hijacked aircraft.
Israel knew about the attack and allowed it to happen. Even moved the music festival into range. Hamas didnt even know the festival was happening
Love his warsaw ghetto and nat turner comparison. Brilliant!
What a great person.
So profound
There were demonstrations of the 30 % of Gazans earlier on who didn't vote for Hamas - but they have no chance to do anything against their fascistic government!!
Israel claims the land of Palestine because Prophet Musa (peace be upon him) was chosen by God for Egypt and the surrounding areas. This is a fact and the inhabitants of these areas accepted the call of mosa ( pbub) & embraced judism. But with the passage of time, Allah chose Jesus to reform the system that had already been spread by Moses( pbub). A part of the population living in Palestine and its surroundings accepted the invitation of Jesus(pbub) and converted to Christianity. 600 years after that, Allah then chose the last Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) with Allah's final message to mankind. With the establishment of the Emirate of Islami in ki Medina ( present KSA),Islam spread to all the surrounding areas, including Palestine and the African subcontinent. A large part of the population in all these areas accepted Islam. So the point is that most of the inhabitants of Philistine (modern Israel) were Muslims. A very small part of the population was affiliated with Judaism and Christianity and lived as minorities. The development in Palestine after 1948 is now well known. Israel imported Jews from Europe, Africa and Russia to replace the territory's population. Now Israel claims to be democratic...? If Israel will allow the return of Palestinians from neighboring countries who left their homeland due to the Israeli occupation in 1948, 1967, 1973 and until today and will hold free & fair elections throughout Palestine and Israel. There will be a popular Palestinian government throughout Palestine and Israel. Because the population of Palestinians is around 10 million and the population of Jews is around 7 million including imported jews. But they will not allow the Palestinians to have the same rights as the Jews. They see the conflict through the prism of Zionism and have a great desire for a greater Israel. so the conflict will continue till the end of world
The Zionist have lost their mind. The Americans bombed Afghanistan after 9/11 to push it into the Stone Age and eliminate the Taliban. The Americans used the "mother of all bombs" and dropped millions of pounds of explosives on Afghanistan, but 20 years later the US lost the war and begged the Taliban for a safe withdrawal. You cannot destroy a nation. Suppose you succeed in eliminating Hamas fighters and their leaders, but another generation will fight you with more courage and determination a decade later. It's an endless cycle until you send the imported Jews back to Europe and other countries. Allow Palestinian refugees in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and other neighboring Arab countries to return to their homelands, uniting Palestinians and Israelis into one country. You need to do away with Zionist ideology, hold fair and free elections. Ensure that every citizen enjoys equal rights and dignity. This will be a lasting solution.
Sir, it was started by Israelis since 1917. Thieves will seize your house and throw you out, kill your children and destroy your crops. So what will be your reaction...? Would you give food and other amenities to a thief?
As always, Finkelstein nailed it.
There are many who will not understand equating Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto.
This guy has the balls of Jupiter
Moons.
Dr Finkelstein, there has been some statements made that Hamas didn’t commit the atrocities. Hamas said they only wanted to take hostages. Yasmin Porat an Israeli who was in the middle of the attack said that people died from the heavy crossfire. Demolished houses were done by Israeli tanks. Could you help comment if this is plausible? Israel is infamous for its lies for example the 40 beheaded babies and they also have the Hannibal directive ie to kill hostages. Could you help comment
I have also heard that Hamas didn't intend to kill civilians and perhaps it was a combination of some renegade fighters and even Gazan civilians who took advantage of the opportunity to kill Israeli civilians. We may never know the truth.
Hamas was kind enough to take videos of everything they did. They wanted to take credit for it. Feel free to look at the pictures.
Hamas killed people that day. But Israeli witnesses (and forensic evidence) say that IDF soldiers indiscriminately killed people, including Israelis. Some Israeli witnesses say that the Hamas militants they interacted with were respectful and didn’t kill. Id imagine there were individual Hamas who acted differently. There is next to no evidence Hamas raped anyone. And no evidence they beheaded babies.
Unfortunately outsiders control the news narrative, and Hamas is reported to be freedom fighters but that is hardly the case. The truth is Hamas was also an occupying force in Gaza, they declared themselves winner of the Gazan election but they weren't even one of the two official parties to vote between in the Gazan election, which voted Fatah out and did not vote Hamas in. Hamas are bolstered by other wealthier countries that want to end Israel, who then pay off news corporations to villainize Israel. Although Israel has demolished many Hamas homes, before Israel ever touched Gaza, Hamas had demolished Gazan homes, even my family cemetery. Hamas's plan was always to attack Israel and the bulk of the Palestinian population would be on the other side should Israel retaliate. They were willing to sacrifice Gazans, who had prior a better relationship with Israel than the West Bank because Gazans were not seen as occupying Jewish promised land. Hamas should be seen as West Bank Palestinians waging war on and occupying Gaza Strip Palestinians. The news didn't report it, but many peaceful Gazans were allowed refuge in Israel before Israel retaliated on Hamas 20 days later than Oct 7.
As for the 40 babies story, that wasn't actually Israel's lie. The language that the news story was first reported with uses the number 40 as an expression that means "a lot, an unknown exact number". In a press briefing Israel was asked about the story and clarified that ironically it was pretty close to 40 people in total that were beheaded: 2 babies, about 6 middle aged people, the rest were grandparent aged victims, but not 40 babies. The affected community was one of those places that advertised smaller homes for those who had grown children and were looking to downsize, so that's why so many were older amongst the victims. Israel charitably chalked the confusion up to a translation error, which is pretty much what it was if one is unfamiliar with colloquialisms in the language the story broke in.
I cannot say whether people caught in crossfire is true or not because I did not witness that. But as for Hamas's overall intentions, someone is pulling your leg. Hostages were meant for a swap, to free Palestinian prisoners in Israelis prisons. Many swaps have happened over the years, and often the prisoners freed had done very heinous things to be in prison in the first place. Many Israelis have been frustrated over the years that Israeli leadership routinely trades way more prisoners than hostages that they get back, hostages who did not commit any crimes to be taken by Hamas. However, Hamas also fired unguided missiles into civilian areas in Israel, so many at one time that it overpowered the iron dome's capabilities, so anyone claiming Hamas did not mean to commit any atrocities is either lying or heavily deluded. You'll find often outsiders choose not to see fault in their chosen side that they root for, failing to see the humanity of those have been victimized by this war living in the region that the person ideologically opposes. While some criticism of Israel is fair, they actually get blamed for far more than they actually do wrong. And I am deeply disturbed that Hamas is not properly contextualized as a threat to both Israelis and Gazans.
This is shocking behaviour, going so far as to actually suggest such conspiracy theories when there is ample video footage of Hamas actively targeting women, children and babies. Please, there is plenty to blame Israel for without resorting to horrible lies to justify Hamas' behaviour! You are damaging the truthful case for Palestinian freedom by believing and spreading such immoral deceit.
This is a good reference as to why Aaron Bushnell likewise refused to condemn Palestinian violent resistance.
To me, he reminds me of Christopher Hitchens. Not afraid to take unpopular stands, backed by loads of research and experience.
Brilliant.
Most excellent question.
Hamas rules Palestine: Do these protesters realize they would be put to death if they lived in a Palestinian territory for their lifestyle?---
🙏🏽
Some do, as much as some jews condemn zionism and the illegal occupation of palestinian territory. The world is full of condemnations, what ordinary people wants everywhere is peace and to be able to live with freedom, without harassment, without humiliations and with full human and civil rights.
Yes
The Right to Resist
UNGA Resolution 37/43
What would the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto have said about the uprising right after it was put down and the Germans began to retaliate?
Or the slaves immediately following the rebellion when the whites began taking their sadistic revenge?
Excellent
vejo da mesma forma que o sr.
We souldnt forgett, Netanjahu showed us a new Map of Israel a few Months ago, and Palestine, and part of Syria was Part of Israel.
He basicly announced to conquer this Regions to the World. Thats a declaration of war, and absolute Respons. Dont think thats a good respons, but its very understandably.
And people have the nerve to get angry at Rivers and Sea.
God, hearing Norm talk about the early Warsaw scepticism, makes me wish that the original GDR movie "Jacob the Liar" was remastered!
Norm, can you tell us? Some of these men, did Hamas ever force them to do this? Because I know in America, the confederacy forced people to fight. It was join us or we will kill you.
I’m wondering if perhaps some of these men didn’t have a choice?
Either way, your evaluation of this is very moving.
Why ? Who else is fighting for them , what legal agency can they appeal to ?
Im a kiwi with 0 connection to palestine/islam/middle east. I do not condemn hamas, i condemn israel
WE SHALL SEE
Shouldn’t Israelis condemn the government and the idf?
Shouldn't The west and westerners condemn their soldiers?
This man is insane with these comparisons.
No argument? 🥺
@@SefirothPH What argument do you need to compare Warsaw ghetto where people were transported to systemic slaughter weekly to Gaza where you are free to move, work, leave to go to work to Israel or even immigrate. Tens of thousands of Gazans used to go to work to Israel daily. Before Hamas (elections have consequences) there was even no fence, Israelis could go there for shopping and Gazans could go to Israel more freely.
@@olegw4243 You could get a permit to leave the Warsaw Ghetto.
What now?
Marek Edelman.
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising wasn't directed against the civilian population, it was directed against German occupation forces which were performing deportations.
It's not a tenable analogy.
Turner's Rebellion is a better analogy.
Anyway, the Fatah-Hamas conflict isn't something that can be swept under the rug when talking about Gaza.
Fatah/PA and Hamas are mortal enemies which are forced to try to find common ground, due to Israel's genocidal pressure.
This is often impossible to accomplish, since their positions are incompatible, and they end up butchering each other, sometimes even taking innocent Palestinian lives in the process.
Hamas doesn't want to give up armed resistance nor recognize Israel's occupation as legit, it refuses to play the beggar's role.
Fatah has resigned itself to accept the reality of things, after over 50 years of experiencing what happens when you don't play the beggar's role with Israel and its allies.
If anyone sees this, and would be kind enough to lend your thoughts:
What do you think would be the best course of action for solving the conflict between Israel and Palestine?
Resettle the Israelis to the United States (except of course those willing to stay and share one state with the Palestinians, with equal rights for all), where they seem to enjoy support of some sectors, and give them a couple of centuries to think things over and, hopefully, mature as human beings worthy of and able to administer a humane society with own country~state. Supposing the United States will last that long, of course.
@@calicocat8213 Will India be getting Pakistan and Bangladesh back around the same time?
Two state solution is the pragmatic way out. We did it in India. We did not sit around whining that Pakistan was stolen although there is greater basis for us to do so. But It won't happen there.
Thanks for your answers
I love you Norman 🤍🙏🏻
Short answer: no
You are much more smarter than eineshtein in your analysis
I disagree with Dr. Finkelstein. Warsaw Ghetto, 460.000 jews in 3km2 , 25.000 escaped death. Gaza 2.300.000, in Israeli militar operations 20.000 deaths.
Non-Jewish Palestinians in 1948 there were 1.400.000, today there are 13.000.000.
A brilliant man for sure 👏
I feel tremendous hope from somewhere hearing this insight. Sometimes I feel it is hopeless, but then you listen to talks like this 🤌✨✨✨
Many of them do. As do jews condemn the Israeli government.
Men who are to be respected can say exactly what they stand for, you beat around the bush and say nothing.
No it’s called a pal pass.
Shouldn't Americans condemn the Confederacy? Do they? How about that?
HE NEEDS PROTECTING ISRAEL WILL HAVE HIM ON A LIST
His whole argument is based on the assumption that the arrangement and dynamics between Israel and Palestinians is exactly the same as nazis exterminating Jews or slave owners treating their slave as property. I don’t think it’s like that, despite how many forms of mistreatment Israel can be accused of.
How is not like that? "Mowing the lawn". Gaza is not allowed a seaport or an airport. Jerusalem illegally occupied. West Bank illegally occupied. You have no ground to stand on.
tell that to the people in the music festival. hamas didn’t choose their victims very carefully, I would say.
How did Hamas reach this festival so quickly without being intercepted by the IDF when they live in a concentration camp?
Hint: the festival took place on stolen Palestinian land right outside the walls of the concentration camp they keep bombing
❤❤❤
He should be the Prime Minister of Israel. So all of this problems can be solved once and all.
Im sure thats how I'd feel too.
@SefirothPH No you could not, the only permit out of the Warsaw ghetto was to the death camp, what now ? Just check how many thousands used to go to Israel daily to work, check how many immigrated during recent years. And btw, check the border with friendly muslim country - Egypt
Min 8:49 "Gaza concentration camp" is like Dr Finkelstein defind Gaza. Amazing answer from an authorized expert.
Yeah 👍. Deprivation breads depraved and desperate act. F ... life.... You can't expect suburban to comprehend. And yet apparently 😔 some do. Breath taking glimpse of the abyss. 😟
There is no justification for killing innocent Gazans or innocent Israelis or innocent UN workers or innocent Thai workers or innocent students from Tanzania or innocent journalists....this is NOT a morally questionable issue.
Comparing Nazi soldiers to innocent civilians is sick.
he didnt. Or do you assume every german was by definition a nazi. Because if you dont think that, explain who exactly died in fire bombings of
Innocent German civilians settling in occupied Poland far from Germany? Put down the crack pipe, NOW
All the accolades ring false to me. He goes on and on and on with his very poor analogy and justification of Hamas terror.
That's a wrong analogy!!
The right analogy is: imagine some prisoners of Auschwitz managed to escape the concentration camp and started killing random Polish civilians. Would you condemn those killings?
_This_ is the correct analogy.
(This said, I stand for the liberation of Palestine from oppression and for the creation of peace between all the peoples involved)
While Auschwitz indeed WAS located in Poland (and served well before Jews were incarcerated there, look it up), it was a German concentration camp. There in fact were breakouts from Auschwitz as well as acts of revolts. An incredibly brave and noble Polish officer, Witold Pilecki, was an only known person who, of his free will, allowed himself to be captured and incarcerated in Auschwitz-Birkenau, where he organized a resistance movement involving hundreds of inmates. Pilecki secretly drew up reports of German atrocities at the camp and managed to smuggle them out to be shared with the Western Allies (who took no action). He eventually escaped Auschwitz in April 1943. You're showing an awful bias based in lack of education and general knowledge. A huge monument to the heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (who BTW were, though modestly, assisted by the Polish underground who provided them with weapons and intelligence) stands in Warsaw where ghetto was once located. There are ceremonies every April 19th commentating the Uprising, starting with sirens glaring. As a rule, Poles did not collaborate with Nazi Germany, and many Jewish lives (among them my grandmother) were saved by the Poles, under the threat of death penalty. Irena Sendler, a Polish catholic nurse, personally saved some 2.500 Jewish children smuggled out of the Warsaw Ghetto. Educate yourself or, still better, keep quiet.
Uhhh, your analogy actually makes the Hamas attack more understandable and more justified considering you chose a death camp and he used the Warsaw Ghetto for his analogy. I can't tell if you're disagreeing with for being too soft or too hard on Hamas lol
Norman Finkelstein no mental institution will take him!! It can't be helped his lunacy
Fxckin beautiful.
As someone of Palestinian descent I can't imagine what people in Gaza were/are going through.
I understand that there was/is hope in Hamas to free them from occupation/Israeli control and to be fair they didn't have many options when they voted for a regime in 2005. Hamas (muslim brotherhood) got help by Israel and Iran to defeat PLO (secular). And sociology scientists taught us multiple times that children without future perspectives (due to Israeli tyranny) grow up to join radical groups like Hamas. Besides that Hamas tries everything to win peoples trust/support.
However, I have to condemn Hamas just because of their core ideology to create an islamist state that's gonna be Irans puppet. It's not really fighting for the Palestinian cause. Palestinians deserve better support, REAL support!
That's the same reason why I condemn political zionism/Israel because Israel is founded on jewish settler colonialism and admits to being a jewish ethnostate.
Also every civilian harmed is terrible, from both sides! Doesn't mean that Palestinians aren't allowed to defend themselves and resist occupation! But not by harming civilians and supporting radical believes. Not by being hostile towards jews! And I blame zionism for mixing zionists with jews and making them look like a monolith!
I hope that all fundamentalist ideologies, zionism and islamism, lose power and that people finally come together to live in a liberated Palestine!
I think that the main reason that the Palestinians in the west bank are not condemning Hamas is because they are still living under its heel.
no because in the west bank they still live under Israeli racist apartheid rules , no one can live like this
@@heshaeza Yes, but they are also under the oppressive rule of Hamas. They are twice oppressed.
@@milascave2 what other option do they have then?? imagine if there was no Hamas, will there be no apartheid state?you give them no other option but to support an extreme radical groups.. if you want to kill Hamas ideology then give Palestinians equal rights and stop the illegal settlements , after that people mentality will change into rejecting Hamas
@@milascave2 There is no Hamas presence in a city where the streets have endless Israeli checkpoints and Palestinians are arbitrarily barred from WALKING ON THE FUCKING SIDEWALK of certain streets. Put down the crack pipe immediately.
@@heshaeza if only you knew that in fact these are Israelis who are not allowed to go to the West bank area A but Palestinians are allowed to move around. If you do get into this area your chances of survival are very slim. Tell me about apartheid rules again.
You think the Palestinian people are happy with what Hamas did??? Please speak about the 4 year old Muslim boy who was stabbed to death by his landlord just because he was a muslim. Or the 52 year old Pediatrician who was murdered in Texas.
Those people would never blame hamas for the actions of other racist psycopaths. More likely that they would blame the brutal apartheid regime that is the cause of all these events to begin with.
.
But the blame for these insane acts lies mainly on their perpetrators, and also on the media for influencing such insane people to commit such hate crimes.
Norman where is your "ahavat yisrael?"
The answer is yes. The Palestinians should condemn Hamas
So sad