I started building Quads in August 2022... after my intro to drones via DJI (Mini 2, Air2S & DJI FPV). Since then, I've built 5 quads. Crashed & Totalled the first one in less than 30 seconds. Rebuilt it on a different frame. Crashed and drowned it several times after, put it back together again and it flies so well I don't know what else to do with it. Every other quad has been nothing but trouble to tune properly. Bardwell's videos helped quite a bit... and then he mentioned you in one of his tuning videos. If he was excited receiving info from you, then you were worth checking out... and I did. Mr. Rosser, your content was made specifically for my needs as a quadcopter enthusiast. I was initially reluctant to watch this series of BF Tuning videos (because of time). But after getting started, I realize I did myself a disservice waiting so long. I should have started sooner. You have given so much to the FPV community (& Mr. Bardwell). Many thanks... many times over. I plan to continue building and flying quads and have plans to get even more involved than I already am. So, I'll be seeing you on your discord server soon. Thanks for all you do. Thanks for making all this technical stuff easy to follow. Your work and expertise is appreciated.
Thank you so much Chris! just set my filters up as you suggested on my Aos 5,& 5.5v2 and they both now fly even better. Amazing bit of knowledge here guys try this!
Love these techy dives on the deep side of the pool thank you. After switching to 4.3 I had no idea of what I'm doing. After watching your videos I have to admit, I still don't know what I'm doing, If I sound like the FNG. Yes I'm an FNG. LOL, but am glad there are pictures. Anyways all silliness aside, thank you for these videos without them I would not be flying today or tomorrow or the next day, Had copied and pasted some of the presets and didn't like them, everything seemed mushy, like flying through mud. After seeing your tuning 101 video's for 4.3, I saw that Dymanic damping was turned down & no Gyro filters, made my day. Gees Thank you.
Great content here, Chris! The filter overlays were really clear to visualize the expected filter response from either tune and I love the dynamic lowpass tuning strategy tips... Well done!
Thx alot Chris for this great video. I also watched all your videos in the tuning guide for BF 4.2 and I would highly appreciate if you could do a video where you just point out the differences in tuning in comparison to your "old" BF 4.2 viedeos.
Great videos! So much to learn and remember, I wish I had a cheat sheet of your videos for the drone room wall, like a slide pack with the key points to jog my memory 🤔🤔
Excellent content again! You should really put a disclaimer in the beginning to tell people that this is for 5-6" quads. Anything substantially out of that range requires not only different numbers but most of the time totally different filter-strategies. Keep ripping, Volker
Thanks! I run these filters on quads from 1.8" props up to 7inch props. I agree that for larger quads additional filtering may be necessary, hopefully for smaller quads my recommendation should be OK for most.
BF 4.3 will be much better at handling a wide range of differently sized quads with similar filter strategies. The signals going into the PID controller are way cleaner than on previous versions.
I run most of my builds on EMU, but I also run a few birds BF nightly builds (whoop, 3.5", 5",7") and I'm really impressed with how good the dyn notch work without a lot of tuning but if you have blackbox available you can get rid of a lot of latency by using dumb filters at the wright spot.
@@volkergoe Yeah. BF 4.3 also shaves off a lot of latency off of the RPM filter because the notches get turned off at low RPMs (crossfading). Now you can get perfectly clean gyro signals with delays under 1ms.
@@volkergoe just to clarify that a dynamic notch at e.g. 150Hz creates the exact same delay as a static or dumb notch at 150Hz. There is no delay benefit switching from dynamic notch to static notch. The dynamic notch uses more CPU cycles to calculate but the filter delay is the same (it doesn't depend on CPU usage)
This method is applicable to any quad, and if you watch the video, there's usually little pointers added in specifically for AOS frames (or any frame with similar resonance properties.)
@@ChrisRosser Deep dive it was! Karate tune and AOS tune filter outputs does not seem that different to me. And because of my choice of antenna I ll probably better use Karate. Maybe you can make an additional video about your filter comparison tool. It might be easy to use for who knows what he is doing but probably doesn't make sense for many. Looking forward for part 4 !
I've noticed when you are in Freq vs Throttle view you are in Gyro Scaled (roll). Is this axis the only one we need to be looking at when assessing the noise of our quads? Thanks for sharing all the knowledge by way :)
It's worth checking all 3 axes. I just showed roll here because it was representative of pitch as well and yaw had very little noise of interest. In some previous videos I've looked at all 3 axes but it's only worth it if there is something of value to show 😁
To be honest I wasn't very successful with tuning 4.2 so I am now trying again with 4.3. After watching both "seasons" from you, I feel quite prepared. Any tips on the first flights for getting logs to set up filters? Some full throttle punchouts needed, or some spins? Thanks a lot for all you helpful information!
Thank you for this nice explanation video!!! Is there any chance to contact you? I just want to ask if you would use the Karate or AOS tune in my Blackbox case. I would send you a picture of my Blackbox case. I tried both. I think I like the Karate Tune more (feels better). If I'm not fully wrong, I think the Karate tune makes my quad a little bit "wobbly" sometimes. That's the only thing that was annoying. Could be the wind, too. It was quiet windy.
Thanks! Very clear and easy to understand! Do you know what is happening with the AOS 5R? I just got mind, but I see it's no longer listed for sale on CNC Drones.
We're having some quality control issues with the arm carbon from the supplier (typical new product stuff). Hopefully it will be sorted out in a few days but we're not taking more orders in the meantime.
Hi Chris love your videos been following along ... updated a clean build armattan marmotte 5” BF4.3 rpm filters set as you suggest Fly’s beautiful on default PID’s but hottish motors mechanically sound What’s the next step ie lowering PID’s which slider would you recommend Thanks for all your helpful content 😊
I would start by slightly lowering the D gain filter cutoffs and see if that helps. Otherwise you can use the master slider to lower the PIDs but that risks the quad becoming quite unresponsive.
@@ChrisRosser thanks Chris can’t find the d-term filter cut of did you mean the d-gain slider ..also thinking about your suggestion to increase the PWM from 24hz to 48hz 😊
@@flipfpv4539 In the filter tab the Dterm filter cutoffs (they are 75Hz and 150Hz by default) if you need more specific help I have a great team of people in my discord server support hanger 😁
@@ChrisRosserDo you mean 0.4.0? I suppose. So nice! Can't wait ! Not that I'm especially fan of Emuflight, but on my heavy 6s 3" drone (cinerat with propguard, approximately 485g auw), I never found a way to make it fly decently with Betaflight (I'm not good in tuning, just gettin' better 'cause of you and some other), but it fly like a "charm" with Emu. I would like to understand why/ how... The hobby needs more Chris Rosser... I mean people who help, share their knowledges inna scientifical way, accessibles, ... Well, I hope you'll show the way (as UAV tech also does) to a new (and better way) to do videos about fpv drones and tuning. And, cherry on the cake, you build very interesting frames!
I want to try 4.3 again. I tried it awhile ago. And some reason whoop that I had (already not a great flyer) wouldn't fly.. mark said same tune should work. I didn't try tuning just went back to 4.2. I want to try again
@@ChrisRosser in fact i'm using the slider to move 5 by 5 the dterm biquad filter as you suggest isn't it ? It seems to work with the last nightly build
Refering to 20:10, in the latest Betaflight 4.3RC2 and configurator 10.8 nightly cb3287b5, how can I change the value? It seems that the Dterm lowpass 1 min & max frequency cutoff is not able to change anymore.
I just don't understand the D term lowpass filters. If I change the slider it will raise the min and max. But fir your settings it's a very narrow number. I felt like you point out why we were setting the other filters the way we were. and pointed out where we were looking to get this info. I don't understand were we are looking for the d term lowpass to get the numbers you came up with? And why did you change from pt1 to biquad?
@@MaWeFPV I understand that. I don't understand why he goes against the defaults or where he comes up with the numbers from? I felt like he did a good job explaining the rest of the filters and the information to find on the graph. But lost me on the D term.
I'm stuck at 3:16. Once I choose the UAVtech BF(BBE 3.5 Version) thing and "Workspaces Loaded" Clicking the button again brings up the same thing to choose the UAVtech thing again. It does not open the file like it does at 3:25. The video does not explain how to get the file from the flight controller. I tried plugging in my FC while doing this and nothing happens.
You need to use betaflight configurator to set your FC in mass storage mode under the blackbox tab. If your FC has blackbox storage it will then appear as a usb for you to copy to your desktop. Then you open the file with BBE.
Thanks for this great content. Does any of this advice or suggested settings need to change for the BMI270 gyro using betaflight 4.3? Despite using the AOS 5 V2 with a clean build and very low noise spectrum I am having issues with noisy motors and fly aways on arming.
No BF4.3 makes BMI270=MPU6000 in terms of noise. If you're getting noisy motors on the AOS 5 V2 then I would suspect in order: VTX antenna mounting (long and wobbly), stack mounting (plastic not steel and/or no base nut). Drop some photos in the discord or send me an email.
Hi Chris, I noticed that you changed your recommendation from a static D-term biquad filter to a dynamic one. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. A static filter makes more sense to me here and it also easier to tune because you only have one parameter (+ the filter type).
Yeah the difference is very small really. Having a dynamic filter lets you achieve a higher cutoff at high throttle taking advantage of the gyroscopic stability of the motors. A static 100Hz Biquad is also a great choice.
Chris love your content AND frames. I'm a proud owner of the AOS 5.5 and 7' and truthfully are my best performing quads. Your PID and tuning guides I'm slowly beginning to grasp and understand but am curious why none of your presets in BF 4.3 are not listed. I had PIDS and filters perfect on 4.2 based on your previous videos but 4.3 changed quite a bit. Do you have presets available for 4.3?
Thank you, Chris for this great content!! Today I experimented with the tune options you suggested. The AOS tune works almost perfectly on my quad. However I have a relatively broad noise peak at around 530 Hz only on the yaw axis (in the freq. vs. throttle plot it is vertical), that ist not really filtered by the AOS tune (the Karate tune does reduce the peak, but doesnt remove it completely). Does this effect the further tuning of my quad if I want to follow your upcoming videos?
Hi! Typically noise on yaw isn't as bad as on pitch and roll. The dynamic notch should take care of a noise peak if you're using it. As long as your motors are cool then it's Ok to continue.
Hello Chris, I am trying to eliminate the most noise as I can, but I have a doubt, what situation is better, having 5 ms of delay in gyro filters and 0 in dterm filters, or having 2.5 ms of delay in gyro filters and 2.5 ms in dterm filters? At the end I have 5 ms in both situations. Regars from Spain.
Great job Chris. Question: my filter frequencies are greyed out? I can't change the number. I can only turn on and off the filter? I'm using BF 4.3 RC3.
Why not have a low-pass filter at 100Hz? As all noise is usually above that, just get rid of anything there, and sub 100Hz is movement, which is what you want the gyro to look at... Is there something fundamental that I'm missing?
using the same verrsion and some things it wont let me change, like the Dterm Lowpass 1 for instance. In Dynamic mode and Biquad I can't change the min or max cutoff they are grey and stuck at 75-150
Please help. For me, the D-term and Gyroscope filter settings in the Blackbox Explorer are not visible in the Diagram, only the Yaw filter. What could be the reason? Thanks
Hi Thanks for the tuning series on 4.3! just starting on fpv drone. about the D term max Hz cut off, what if the motor are warm after flying is that okay? or should i increase it until its hot or rough sounding?
Hey man! Im tuning a 533Tiny trainer rn and this is sooo helpful. Its sad I don't have any blackbox on my aio but ill still follow along :) Also is there anyway to know if I Need dynamic notch filters on this frame? Is there anyway to know if I should use the Karate tune or the AOS tune without blackbox? Thanks so much EDIT: so im tuning my d term low filter dynamic filter and for some reason I can't tell a difference in motor sound when I arm at 80 vs 95? Is that normal. What is the highest I should go on 1404 4533kv motors
Keep going up until they stop sounding smooth. You may be able to go up quite a bit on a 3" as they are typically lower noise than 5". You should use the AOS tune as it sounds like you have a clean build.
drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1uMQmG7brb-j88otxiatIiKiD1tmR9VBl?usp=sharing&fbclid=IwAR1MR_gfcrXwgUAqKweM8xaRq2vUIUqkiw75WmJH-dFxOiWMr-Oqp9EObnY Here is the drive link to 4.3 dump.
What happens, if I can rise the master slider up to 2.0 without noticing any strange sounds from the motors or them getting hot? Is there a limit for reasonable D term? (It's a very clean 5 inch without frame resonances)
I tried to install the nightly build for blackbox logger. For some reason it would not work, I installed uninstalled and reinstalled. I noticed the install has switched to 64bit on build v20210328.2336. The 32bit builds work for me but not the 64bit builds. I am running a 64bit Windows10. Has anyone else had this issue. I'm not getting any errors. Thanks for the help.
Hi Chris, how do I change the min and max cutoff frequencies for the D term lowpass filter 1 in Betaflight 4.3? I'm running the JBF7 and cant seem to change the Thanks!
Im sorry but how is this process possible without Blackbox logging? Im running a Happymodel X12 AIO with target crazybeef4sx1280 and couldn't get a blackbox set up...
I'm afraid it's not. I get so annoyed that manufacturers still make FCs without Blackbox chips! You can get an openlager serial logging device or try my recommended settings and hope it works but without Blackbox those are your options.
It's exactly the same as for 5". I usually use the same filter settings on all quads 5" and smaller and when I show the PID tuning process that is the same for whoops and cinelifters!
I have a very strong resonance at around 85hz (78-90 ish). They look similar to your frame resonances at 200hz (when looking at vs throttle graphs). What kind of filter should I use? My main issue seems to be yaw twitching, oscilliations+potential flyoffs when I go too high in master slider, but even once I lower pid master slider, I still get yaw twitching, not like a constant oscillation, just twitches every now and then, sometimes during flight, sometimes during hover.
I'm only going to address the yaw twitching, as everything else is covered in the videos, and it'd be tough for me to explain it any better as I'm very much still learning like you. One possible explanation for the yaw twitching: You may be experiencing a hardware issue with your radio. If you have BB logging, take look at Yaw Setpoint for a flight during which you experienced yaw twitching, and look for sharp spikes in the plot that correlate. If you confirm spikes in the YSP plot that correlate with the twitches, first thing to try is carefully open your radio, find where the sensor for the horizontal (yaw,) axis of the left gimbal connects to the main board, and simply reseat the connector. Inspect the signal path for anything obvious. Reassemble and test for twitching. If you still have twitching, you want to go back in and perform thorough inspection of the sensor. Hall Effect gimbals use magnets. Check if any stray metal filings have collected on the magnet. Sometimes the magnet itself will begin to corrode, and bits of the nickel plating, and magnet, will bubble up and crumble loose, but remain magnetized to the magnet. In this case you want to get a new gimbal, but cleaning the loose material from the magnet might be work enough to keep you flying until your gimbal arrives.I think another common sensor type is optical, in which case you want to ensure it is free of dust, lint, or other debris. Remember these sensors can be delicate. So yeah, I thinks it's rare, or perhaps unlikely, to get yaw twitching from a bad config, or bad tune. Anyway, I hope you find the problem. Good luck!4
I'm also trying to do that on my 4''. I went up to 145 with the D term lowpass 1 dynamic min cutoff frequency and still nothing. It sound completely the same. Can't tell the difference. I don't know what I'm doing wrong here...
Typically you don't want notches coming down too low as they add delay. Supafly's request deals with frames with bad resonance performance that have bad resonance peaks below 150Hz. Typically these are bigger rigs that have poor performance from a resonance standpoint. I don't have a problem with making the defaults more conservative to avoid flyaways on badly designed frames. But if you've got a decent frame you should definitely raise the min to 150 Hz to avoid filter delay.
Please watch this video need your brain my drone flew went home connected battery 3 beeps not 5 and constant beep sound what can I do to recover my FC or ESC I'm using mamba F7 22 MK1 do I have to get same FC or can I use any brand is F4 cheers hope you can help me cheers
unfortunately my AOS 5.5 is the most vibrating frame, i have. No idea why. Have spent hours in finding a loose screw or something. It's built perfectly.
Well… still it doesnt say how much residual noise is ok. I have a 10inch and I can only get D term in the mid 40 and not in the recommended 60 range. I could if I increase filtering. But should I do that? Thats smth that is never addressed. Also with this tune in this video: if you run low D sure you can reduce filtering a lot.
Well... this is a case where analyzing Blackbox logs is absolutely critical in being able to give you a direct answer to you question, the statement of "blackbox logging is not required" there is NO way to achieve "the best possible flight experience", without logging you are doing nothing more than guessing. Sure you could get a decent PID tune without blackbox but there is no way possible other than logging to get an accurate setting for filters. And with an accurate setting of your filters within the limitations of your craft will help lower phase delay, so that you can finetune your PID's to achieve the best possible flight experience. Without black box that is impossible
Join the uavtech discord. People there are incredibly helpful when it comes to analysing your bb logs. Also, the iNav Community might be helpful. Paweł Spychalski who's a dev there seems to focus on larger drones. Check out his channel as well. Good luck with your quad my friend!
I find myself coming back to these videos so often
Thank you, Chris 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 This BF4.3 series is gonna be in my "study", DIY & watch later playlist!
Fantastic! Thanks for the support, glad you enjoy the technical deep dives! 🤓
your vtx antenna mission is pretty funny
I started building Quads in August 2022... after my intro to drones via DJI (Mini 2, Air2S & DJI FPV). Since then, I've built 5 quads. Crashed & Totalled the first one in less than 30 seconds. Rebuilt it on a different frame. Crashed and drowned it several times after, put it back together again and it flies so well I don't know what else to do with it. Every other quad has been nothing but trouble to tune properly. Bardwell's videos helped quite a bit... and then he mentioned you in one of his tuning videos. If he was excited receiving info from you, then you were worth checking out... and I did.
Mr. Rosser, your content was made specifically for my needs as a quadcopter enthusiast. I was initially reluctant to watch this series of BF Tuning videos (because of time). But after getting started, I realize I did myself a disservice waiting so long. I should have started sooner. You have given so much to the FPV community (& Mr. Bardwell). Many thanks... many times over. I plan to continue building and flying quads and have plans to get even more involved than I already am. So, I'll be seeing you on your discord server soon.
Thanks for all you do. Thanks for making all this technical stuff easy to follow. Your work and expertise is appreciated.
Thank you so much Chris! just set my filters up as you suggested on my Aos 5,& 5.5v2 and they both now fly even better. Amazing bit of knowledge here guys try this!
Glad to help!
Love these techy dives on the deep side of the pool thank you. After switching to 4.3 I had no idea of what I'm doing. After watching your videos I have to admit, I still don't know what I'm doing, If I sound like the FNG. Yes I'm an FNG. LOL, but am glad there are pictures. Anyways all silliness aside, thank you for these videos without them I would not be flying today or tomorrow or the next day, Had copied and pasted some of the presets and didn't like them, everything seemed mushy, like flying through mud. After seeing your tuning 101 video's for 4.3, I saw that Dymanic damping was turned down & no Gyro filters, made my day. Gees Thank you.
Great content here, Chris! The filter overlays were really clear to visualize the expected filter response from either tune and I love the dynamic lowpass tuning strategy tips... Well done!
Glad it was helpful! Always love to read your comments Brandon!
eagerly waited for this part of the video! thank you!
Hope you enjoyed it!
Thx alot Chris for this great video. I also watched all your videos in the tuning guide for BF 4.2 and I would highly appreciate if you could do a video where you just point out the differences in tuning in comparison to your "old" BF 4.2 viedeos.
I'll be doing a quick tuning guide at the end of this series, should be just what you are after!
@@ChrisRosser amazing, thank you very much!
Explained really well, thanks Chris, you are a great value to this community!
I appreciate that! Glad you enjoyed the video.
Oufff. You make tunning so easier!!!! ThaNk you
We're going deep on this one, so strap on. Thats what i heard
Great videos! So much to learn and remember, I wish I had a cheat sheet of your videos for the drone room wall, like a slide pack with the key points to jog my memory 🤔🤔
I'll look into doing a GN style build mat!
This is awesome Chris! Thank you.
Excellent content again! You should really put a disclaimer in the beginning to tell people that this is for 5-6" quads. Anything substantially out of that range requires not only different numbers but most of the time totally different filter-strategies.
Keep ripping,
Volker
Thanks! I run these filters on quads from 1.8" props up to 7inch props. I agree that for larger quads additional filtering may be necessary, hopefully for smaller quads my recommendation should be OK for most.
BF 4.3 will be much better at handling a wide range of differently sized quads with similar filter strategies. The signals going into the PID controller are way cleaner than on previous versions.
I run most of my builds on EMU, but I also run a few birds BF nightly builds (whoop, 3.5", 5",7") and I'm really impressed with how good the dyn notch work without a lot of tuning but if you have blackbox available you can get rid of a lot of latency by using dumb filters at the wright spot.
@@volkergoe Yeah. BF 4.3 also shaves off a lot of latency off of the RPM filter because the notches get turned off at low RPMs (crossfading). Now you can get perfectly clean gyro signals with delays under 1ms.
@@volkergoe just to clarify that a dynamic notch at e.g. 150Hz creates the exact same delay as a static or dumb notch at 150Hz. There is no delay benefit switching from dynamic notch to static notch. The dynamic notch uses more CPU cycles to calculate but the filter delay is the same (it doesn't depend on CPU usage)
Another great video Chris. Would really appreciate a tuning video for the AOS 5.5 as well
This method is applicable to any quad, and if you watch the video, there's usually little pointers added in specifically for AOS frames (or any frame with similar resonance properties.)
You are my hero! Good stuff. Thank you.
No problem! Hope you enjoyed the technical detail 🤓
Awesome series of videos for Betaflight!
Thanks! 👍 More to come to get your quad flying amazing on BF 4.3.
Bern waiting for part three thanks chirs!!!
You're welcome! Hope you find it useful.
Oh boy oh boy. Lemme grab some tea 🤓
It's time for the deep dive!
@@ChrisRosser Deep dive it was! Karate tune and AOS tune filter outputs does not seem that different to me. And because of my choice of antenna I ll probably better use Karate.
Maybe you can make an additional video about your filter comparison tool. It might be easy to use for who knows what he is doing but probably doesn't make sense for many.
Looking forward for part 4 !
I wish that BF configurator showed you the phase delay for a given filter setup.
"Trace templates" link does not work anymore. I am getting 404 error =C
what have u done?
I've noticed when you are in Freq vs Throttle view you are in Gyro Scaled (roll). Is this axis the only one we need to be looking at when assessing the noise of our quads? Thanks for sharing all the knowledge by way :)
It's worth checking all 3 axes. I just showed roll here because it was representative of pitch as well and yaw had very little noise of interest. In some previous videos I've looked at all 3 axes but it's only worth it if there is something of value to show 😁
To be honest I wasn't very successful with tuning 4.2 so I am now trying again with 4.3.
After watching both "seasons" from you, I feel quite prepared.
Any tips on the first flights for getting logs to set up filters? Some full throttle punchouts needed, or some spins?
Thanks a lot for all you helpful information!
Thank you for this nice explanation video!!!
Is there any chance to contact you? I just want to ask if you would use the Karate or AOS tune in my Blackbox case. I would send you a picture of my Blackbox case.
I tried both. I think I like the Karate Tune more (feels better).
If I'm not fully wrong, I think the Karate tune makes my quad a little bit "wobbly" sometimes. That's the only thing that was annoying. Could be the wind, too. It was quiet windy.
Thanks! Very clear and easy to understand! Do you know what is happening with the AOS 5R? I just got mind, but I see it's no longer listed for sale on CNC Drones.
We're having some quality control issues with the arm carbon from the supplier (typical new product stuff). Hopefully it will be sorted out in a few days but we're not taking more orders in the meantime.
Hi Chris love your videos been following along ... updated a clean build armattan marmotte 5”
BF4.3 rpm filters set as you suggest
Fly’s beautiful on default PID’s but hottish motors mechanically sound
What’s the next step ie lowering PID’s which slider would you recommend
Thanks for all your helpful content 😊
I would start by slightly lowering the D gain filter cutoffs and see if that helps. Otherwise you can use the master slider to lower the PIDs but that risks the quad becoming quite unresponsive.
@@ChrisRosser thanks Chris can’t find the d-term filter cut of did you mean the d-gain slider ..also thinking about your suggestion to increase the PWM from 24hz to 48hz 😊
@@flipfpv4539 In the filter tab the Dterm filter cutoffs (they are 75Hz and 150Hz by default) if you need more specific help I have a great team of people in my discord server support hanger 😁
Thanks again for your work,
I'm curious : would you give some interest to emuflight some day?
I will do. I currently plan to do a tuning guide for Emu 1.0
@@ChrisRosserDo you mean 0.4.0? I suppose.
So nice! Can't wait ! Not that I'm especially fan of Emuflight, but on my heavy 6s 3" drone (cinerat with propguard, approximately 485g auw), I never found a way to make it fly decently with Betaflight (I'm not good in tuning, just gettin' better 'cause of you and some other), but it fly like a "charm" with Emu. I would like to understand why/ how...
The hobby needs more Chris Rosser... I mean people who help, share their knowledges inna scientifical way, accessibles, ... Well, I hope you'll show the way (as UAV tech also does) to a new (and better way) to do videos about fpv drones and tuning. And, cherry on the cake, you build very interesting frames!
@@marcalbert8980 Hi Marc, 1.0 should launch shortly after BF 4.3 and merge in a lot of new features.
I want to try 4.3 again. I tried it awhile ago. And some reason whoop that I had (already not a great flyer) wouldn't fly.. mark said same tune should work. I didn't try tuning just went back to 4.2. I want to try again
Would have been perfect with video examples on motors sounding rough on arming. Not really sure I know how that sounds ... 👍
if they sound any thing but nice then you are to far...
Yep should just be super smooth sounding like a desk fan running at constant RPM.
I'm also stuck at this step because from slider to 1.0 to 2.0 i don't hear any difference.
@@LAM_FPV Which slider? If you are tuning filters following the guide you wouldn't be using the filter sliders...
@@ChrisRosser in fact i'm using the slider to move 5 by 5 the dterm biquad filter as you suggest isn't it ? It seems to work with the last nightly build
Hi Chris, in case in the first flight the full range of throttle is not smooth (Noises from motors or bumps)
how to proceed?
Refering to 20:10, in the latest Betaflight 4.3RC2 and configurator 10.8 nightly cb3287b5, how can I change the value? It seems that the Dterm lowpass 1 min & max frequency cutoff is not able to change anymore.
I just don't understand the D term lowpass filters. If I change the slider it will raise the min and max. But fir your settings it's a very narrow number. I felt like you point out why we were setting the other filters the way we were. and pointed out where we were looking to get this info. I don't understand were we are looking for the d term lowpass to get the numbers you came up with? And why did you change from pt1 to biquad?
If you set profile independent settings off in the header of the filter menu, you can enter the numbers instead of using the slider.
@@MaWeFPV I understand that. I don't understand why he goes against the defaults or where he comes up with the numbers from? I felt like he did a good job explaining the rest of the filters and the information to find on the graph. But lost me on the D term.
I'm stuck at 3:16. Once I choose the UAVtech BF(BBE 3.5 Version) thing and "Workspaces Loaded" Clicking the button again brings up the same thing to choose the UAVtech thing again. It does not open the file like it does at 3:25. The video does not explain how to get the file from the flight controller. I tried plugging in my FC while doing this and nothing happens.
You need to use betaflight configurator to set your FC in mass storage mode under the blackbox tab. If your FC has blackbox storage it will then appear as a usb for you to copy to your desktop. Then you open the file with BBE.
@@ChrisRosser, thank you for replying so quickly. I knew I was missing something!
Thanks for this great content. Does any of this advice or suggested settings need to change for the BMI270 gyro using betaflight 4.3? Despite using the AOS 5 V2 with a clean build and very low noise spectrum I am having issues with noisy motors and fly aways on arming.
No BF4.3 makes BMI270=MPU6000 in terms of noise. If you're getting noisy motors on the AOS 5 V2 then I would suspect in order: VTX antenna mounting (long and wobbly), stack mounting (plastic not steel and/or no base nut). Drop some photos in the discord or send me an email.
Hi Chris, I noticed that you changed your recommendation from a static D-term biquad filter to a dynamic one. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. A static filter makes more sense to me here and it also easier to tune because you only have one parameter (+ the filter type).
Yeah the difference is very small really. Having a dynamic filter lets you achieve a higher cutoff at high throttle taking advantage of the gyroscopic stability of the motors. A static 100Hz Biquad is also a great choice.
Chris love your content AND frames. I'm a proud owner of the AOS 5.5 and 7' and truthfully are my best performing quads. Your PID and tuning guides I'm slowly beginning to grasp and understand but am curious why none of your presets in BF 4.3 are not listed. I had PIDS and filters perfect on 4.2 based on your previous videos but 4.3 changed quite a bit. Do you have presets available for 4.3?
Yep I'm planning on doing some presets soon!
For engineers, is there a schematic available for how the Betaflight control system works?
My gyro scaled log is extremely red, everything seems tight and snug on my build, what should I do?
How do you see the Harmonic screen?
There is a drop down in the top left.
Thank you, Chris for this great content!! Today I experimented with the tune options you suggested. The AOS tune works almost perfectly on my quad. However I have a relatively broad noise peak at around 530 Hz only on the yaw axis (in the freq. vs. throttle plot it is vertical), that ist not really filtered by the AOS tune (the Karate tune does reduce the peak, but doesnt remove it completely). Does this effect the further tuning of my quad if I want to follow your upcoming videos?
Hi! Typically noise on yaw isn't as bad as on pitch and roll. The dynamic notch should take care of a noise peak if you're using it. As long as your motors are cool then it's Ok to continue.
Hello Chris, I am trying to eliminate the most noise as I can, but I have a doubt, what situation is better, having 5 ms of delay in gyro filters and 0 in dterm filters, or having 2.5 ms of delay in gyro filters and 2.5 ms in dterm filters? At the end I have 5 ms in both situations. Regars from Spain.
Great job Chris.
Question: my filter frequencies are greyed out? I can't change the number. I can only turn on and off the filter?
I'm using BF 4.3 RC3.
There is a profile dependent/indepent filter settings box now that you need to turn on/off to get the numbers to appear.
Why not have a low-pass filter at 100Hz? As all noise is usually above that, just get rid of anything there, and sub 100Hz is movement, which is what you want the gyro to look at... Is there something fundamental that I'm missing?
What is the meaning of horizontal bands on the frequency vs throttle chart? I can’t seem to find any info on this elsewhere
Typically caused by clipping an object or a bump when taking off or landing.
Blackbox explorer 3.6.0 does not start for me at all. So I am stuck with 3.5.0.
I'll raise this on the BF slack.
using the same verrsion and some things it wont let me change, like the Dterm Lowpass 1 for instance. In Dynamic mode and Biquad I can't change the min or max cutoff they are grey and stuck at 75-150
found the tickbox that says profile dependent filter settings and turned it off. that opened it up.
Real talk- Was the dynamic filter "parking delay" the reason so many people had issues with stability at low throttle? I'd honestly like to know.
That and using dynamic idle with low dshot idle 👍 Fortunately these problems are non-existent with 4.3!
at 3:23 when u click to open the log, it opens. for me it just brings me back to the select file. what should i do?
i downloaded the dataflash chip file and it loaded, i guess thats what i needed to do
Please help. For me, the D-term and Gyroscope filter settings in the Blackbox Explorer are not visible in the Diagram, only the Yaw filter. What could be the reason? Thanks
where do you find 4.3? it doesnt show up when in BF
Make sure you have release and release candidate selected in configurator 10.8 or newer.
Hi Thanks for the tuning series on 4.3! just starting on fpv drone. about the D term max Hz cut off, what if the motor are warm after flying is that okay? or should i increase it until its hot or rough sounding?
warm is okay, they should not be hot. Not as you can not touch them!!
Hey man! Im tuning a 533Tiny trainer rn and this is sooo helpful. Its sad I don't have any blackbox on my aio but ill still follow along :) Also is there anyway to know if I Need dynamic notch filters on this frame? Is there anyway to know if I should use the Karate tune or the AOS tune without blackbox? Thanks so much
EDIT: so im tuning my d term low filter dynamic filter and for some reason I can't tell a difference in motor sound when I arm at 80 vs 95? Is that normal. What is the highest I should go on 1404 4533kv motors
Keep going up until they stop sounding smooth. You may be able to go up quite a bit on a 3" as they are typically lower noise than 5". You should use the AOS tune as it sounds like you have a clean build.
Have you seen the 533 tune for 4.3 that Evan posted? Haven’t tried it yet, but should be really good, just like all of them.
Was on Facebook last time I checked. I’ll try and find it and post it.
@@camblescott1195 could u please post it when u find it :)
drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1uMQmG7brb-j88otxiatIiKiD1tmR9VBl?usp=sharing&fbclid=IwAR1MR_gfcrXwgUAqKweM8xaRq2vUIUqkiw75WmJH-dFxOiWMr-Oqp9EObnY Here is the drive link to 4.3 dump.
I have a Diatone Mamba F722 App with the ICM42688P gyro.
I can’t select 2kHz but just 1.6kHz or 3.2Khz.
Which one should i pick for logging?
What happens, if I can rise the master slider up to 2.0 without noticing any strange sounds from the motors or them getting hot? Is there a limit for reasonable D term? (It's a very clean 5 inch without frame resonances)
I tried to install the nightly build for blackbox logger. For some reason it would not work, I installed uninstalled and reinstalled. I noticed the install has switched to 64bit on build v20210328.2336. The 32bit builds work for me but not the 64bit builds. I am running a 64bit Windows10. Has anyone else had this issue. I'm not getting any errors. Thanks for the help.
Hi Robert, thanks for the message. I'll raise this on the BF slack right now. 3.5.0 works acceptably in the meantime.
@@ChrisRosser that's for the quick response, love your content, can't wait for the 4.3 pid tune video.
any experience using dterm notch filter on lower freqs like 50hz with a cutoff of about 10hz?
Hi. Do you have a possibility to analyze cinelog 35? For BF 4.3 its incredible mashine for shooting but i still searching for best results.
Hi Chris, how do I change the min and max cutoff frequencies for the D term lowpass filter 1 in Betaflight 4.3? I'm running the JBF7 and cant seem to change the Thanks!
You may need to turn profile dependent setting to off to be able to change the cutoffs manually!
@@ChrisRosser Ok it works now, thanks for the help!
Im sorry but how is this process possible without Blackbox logging? Im running a Happymodel X12 AIO with target crazybeef4sx1280 and couldn't get a blackbox set up...
I'm afraid it's not. I get so annoyed that manufacturers still make FCs without Blackbox chips! You can get an openlager serial logging device or try my recommended settings and hope it works but without Blackbox those are your options.
Would love to see your approach for 4.3 tuning whoops
It's exactly the same as for 5". I usually use the same filter settings on all quads 5" and smaller and when I show the PID tuning process that is the same for whoops and cinelifters!
@@ChrisRosser awesome, thanks for the info
I have a very strong resonance at around 85hz (78-90 ish). They look similar to your frame resonances at 200hz (when looking at vs throttle graphs). What kind of filter should I use? My main issue seems to be yaw twitching, oscilliations+potential flyoffs when I go too high in master slider, but even once I lower pid master slider, I still get yaw twitching, not like a constant oscillation, just twitches every now and then, sometimes during flight, sometimes during hover.
I'm only going to address the yaw twitching, as everything else is covered in the videos, and it'd be tough for me to explain it any better as I'm very much still learning like you.
One possible explanation for the yaw twitching: You may be experiencing a hardware issue with your radio. If you have BB logging, take look at Yaw Setpoint for a flight during which you experienced yaw twitching, and look for sharp spikes in the plot that correlate. If you confirm spikes in the YSP plot that correlate with the twitches, first thing to try is carefully open your radio, find where the sensor for the horizontal (yaw,) axis of the left gimbal connects to the main board, and simply reseat the connector. Inspect the signal path for anything obvious. Reassemble and test for twitching. If you still have twitching, you want to go back in and perform thorough inspection of the sensor. Hall Effect gimbals use magnets. Check if any stray metal filings have collected on the magnet. Sometimes the magnet itself will begin to corrode, and bits of the nickel plating, and magnet, will bubble up and crumble loose, but remain magnetized to the magnet. In this case you want to get a new gimbal, but cleaning the loose material from the magnet might be work enough to keep you flying until your gimbal arrives.I think another common sensor type is optical, in which case you want to ensure it is free of dust, lint, or other debris. Remember these sensors can be delicate.
So yeah, I thinks it's rare, or perhaps unlikely, to get yaw twitching from a bad config, or bad tune. Anyway, I hope you find the problem. Good luck!4
I increased min Hz in steps of 5 up to 110 and my motors still don't sound rough on arming. What now, do I keep going?
You can but 110Hz should be more than fine so only go further if you want to test the limits!
I'm also trying to do that on my 4''. I went up to 145 with the D term lowpass 1 dynamic min cutoff frequency and still nothing. It sound completely the same. Can't tell the difference. I don't know what I'm doing wrong here...
@@gregor.potrebujes same here i went to 150 and nothing and for my d term max i went up too 220 it was fine so idk if im doing something wrong too lol
You're saying that SFDT should not be set below 150Hz while Supafly has requested to decrease default value from 150Hz to 100Hz. Any comment on that?
Typically you don't want notches coming down too low as they add delay. Supafly's request deals with frames with bad resonance performance that have bad resonance peaks below 150Hz. Typically these are bigger rigs that have poor performance from a resonance standpoint. I don't have a problem with making the defaults more conservative to avoid flyaways on badly designed frames. But if you've got a decent frame you should definitely raise the min to 150 Hz to avoid filter delay.
think some of these screens have changed
Is D Term Lowpass 1, Min cutoff freqence 130 okey on BF 4.4. or em I doing something wrong.
Please watch this video need your brain my drone flew went home connected battery 3 beeps not 5 and constant beep sound what can I do to recover my FC or ESC I'm using mamba F7 22 MK1 do I have to get same FC or can I use any brand is F4 cheers hope you can help me cheers
Hi Gadgetman, I think the best person to ask is Joshua Bardwell. He is much more experienced with troubleshooting than I am!
💪👍👀🇭🇷
Thanks!
unfortunately my AOS 5.5 is the most vibrating frame, i have. No idea why. Have spent hours in finding a loose screw or something. It's built perfectly.
Well… still it doesnt say how much residual noise is ok. I have a 10inch and I can only get D term in the mid 40 and not in the recommended 60 range. I could if I increase filtering. But should I do that?
Thats smth that is never addressed. Also with this tune in this video: if you run low D sure you can reduce filtering a lot.
Well... this is a case where analyzing Blackbox logs is absolutely critical in being able to give you a direct answer to you question, the statement of "blackbox logging is not required" there is NO way to achieve "the best possible flight experience", without logging you are doing nothing more than guessing. Sure you could get a decent PID tune without blackbox but there is no way possible other than logging to get an accurate setting for filters. And with an accurate setting of your filters within the limitations of your craft will help lower phase delay, so that you can finetune your PID's to achieve the best possible flight experience. Without black box that is impossible
@@QuadflyerX
I nowhere stated „böackbox is not required“ ?
Blackbox is essential
@@jas-FPV my apologies for the misunderstanding, I was stating what was in the video 👍
Join the uavtech discord. People there are incredibly helpful when it comes to analysing your bb logs. Also, the iNav Community might be helpful. Paweł Spychalski who's a dev there seems to focus on larger drones. Check out his channel as well. Good luck with your quad my friend!
@@Deserthacker
Thx, I‘m in these groups ;-)
But still, my point is, that the filter/PID balance is not addressed very often but I think very important
i wish i could understand all this, iv only watched it like 4 times maybe 5, i get hot motors
What’s with the thumbnails? Your content is solid so why down-sell it with the thumbnails?
Where i can find your video about tuning the "Dynamic Notch Q" value? Cant find it. Thx.